Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that this is the biggest disappointment of 20th century literature? It feels like the Oxen of the Sun chapter of Ulysses (see: the worst and most indulgent chapter) stretched out to a torturous 650 pages. It is clearly the product of a man who believed his own hype, who no longer felt that he had to prove himself to anyone. If anyone else wrote Finnegans Wake the novel would be remembered (if at all) as a curiosity. Because Joyce wrote it, people twist themselves into pretzels attempting to explain that it is actually a work of genius.
>>25179213Filtereds wake
>>25179233If you know the book so well, give 1 passage from this book that you actually enjoy reading, that isnt that Analiva chapter or the ending monologue
>>25179213Ulysses is also quite often incomprehensible. What makes FW significantly worse according to you?
>>25179254nabokov said it was bad
>>25179254Because FW doesnt feel like a story as much as it feels like an idea of a story. The characters feel like ideas of characters. Ulysses was such a rich book in terms of story, character and theme. FW by comparison feels flat and opaque. Nobody really feels emotionally invested in HCE the same way they do with Bloom. His fall and redemption never feel as emotionally affecting since he is such an opaque character. The best I can say about Finnegans Wake is that it has, on occasion, very good writing, but the good bits are too few and far between to ever justify the length of the novel. The vast majority of the prose is nothing special.
>>25179254chapter 14 is the only part of the book that is batshit insane. you can find articles or videos about academics who spent several years just studying that chapter. everything else is extremely doable if you have the time and discipline
>>25179213I didn't get it. At all. Not even a little bit. But I figured that's because Joyce transcended to some level of consciousness a middlebrow like me could never understand. As a mere mortal I'll just have to stick to Gravity's Rainbow and Infinite Jest.
>>25179213Actually it's the greatest work of literature in the 20th century.
As someone who loves Ulysses as a supreme divine masterpiece, I have no fucking idea what to make of FW. Is it an elaborate prank? Is it just as good as Ulysses but requires 30 ph.d degrees to understand? I'll never know. I want to believe deep down that it's a great book, but I have no fucking idea how I would even begin to scale this mountain. Rereading sections from Ulysses is a joy, often revealing new epiphanies as I get older, and after having read other books. Revisiting sections from FW feels no different than reading a dead language I have zero fluency in.
>>25179252NTA but I like this passage. — But for what, thrice truthful teller, Shaun of grace? weaklywe went on to ask now of the gracious one. Vouchsafe to say.You will now, goodness, won't you? Why? — For his root language, if you ask me whys, Shaun replied,as he blessed himself devotionally like a crawsbomb, making actof oblivion, footinmouther! (what the thickuns else?) which hepicksticked into his lettruce invrention. Ullhodturdenweirmud-gaardgringnirurdrmolnirfenrirlukkilokkibaugimandodrrerin-surtkrinmgernrackinarockar! Thor's for yo! — The hundredlettered name again, last word of perfect lan-guage. But you could come near it, we do suppose, strong ShaunO', we foresupposed. How? — Peax! Peax! Shaun replied in vealar penultimatum. 'Tispebils before Sweeney's as he swigged a slug of Jon Jacobsenfrom his treestem sucker cane. Mildbut likesome! I might aswell be talking to the four waves till tibbes grey eves and therests asleep. Frost! Nope! No one in his seven senses could asI have before said, only you missed my drift, for it's being in-cendiary. Every dimmed letter in it is a copy and not a few of thesilbils and wholly words I can show you in my Kingdom ofHeaven. The lowquacity of him! With his threestar monothong!Thaw! The last word in stolentelling! And what's more right-down lowbrown schisthematic robblemint! Yes. As he was risingmy lather. Like you. And as I was plucking his goosybone. Likeyea. He store the tale of me shur. Like yup. How's that forShemese?Basically, the people are asking Shaun why he hates his twin brother Shem, and he goes on a rant about how much the letter his brother wrote sucks.
>>25179424>Basically, the people are asking Shaun why he hates his twin brother Shem, and he goes on a rant about how much the letter his brother wrote sucks.I think this is feverish and brilliantly written actually. Though, I wouldn’t have been able to gather what it was unless you told me. H.C.E is a voyeur of sorts, in terms of what actually happens, that’s all I know. I will definitely take up the challenge one of these days in reading it
>>25179392Plotchads vindicated
>>25179447characterchads, moreso
>>25179447Story and meaning are always essential to literature. IIRC Akira Kurosawa once said something like "a filmmaker dies when he becomes a photographer" and I think that a similar thing could be said about novelists.
>>25179213I always thought of it as literary writing taken to the extreme. Where the only reason to read it would be to experience the linguistic playfulness as opposed to literally everything else that makes a book. Though, it does have the whole nocturnal, dream concept working for it
>>25179213>It feels likeThose who don't understand resort to feelings.
>>25179392The opacity you complain about clears with understanding. Behind the archetypes (HCE, Anna Livia, Shaun, Shem and Issy) are real people with real relationships. Most of their interactions are only hinted at, but a fuller picture emerges as the novel progresses.
