I'm interested in discussing and exploring the potential for the internet to present a novel form of literature, namely in the form of stories that are:1. written to a high standard (i.e., respecting the literary craft)2. written, read and interacting with in real-timeThere are some examples of this, both in a literary sense and a non-literary one (e.g., Cicada 3301).I'm aware of web novels (written in installments/updates, like serialized novels), hypertext (literary works published online which include hyperlinks to aid the story and take advantage of instance access to external information). What I am interested in however are stories (focusing on mystery and/or horror) which begin and expand in real-time, with the readers playing an ongoing role in determining (to whatever extent) the narrative direction, exploring the story independently of the author (i.e., helping to "solve" the mystery, discussing the characters, motivations, plot, problems) and taking part in a kind of collective reading experience. I see a lot of potential here which, to my knowledge, has not been taken advantage of yet.Would anyone like to discuss this with me?
>Why post about it on /lit/?I think this kind of novel, if it is to emerge at all, will likely develop on a site like 4chan, much like creepypastas etc were popularised here.>What makes it different from a normal literary novel?If this kind of story is well-plotted, intriguing, well-written, engaging and written from by someone with at least some knowledge of both literary standards and internet culture, I think it could be an interesting way of storytelling which provides the novel opportunity for otherwise isolated readers individually reading a story already concluded to instead read a story which is ongoing and progressing at the same time that it is being consumed/engaged with.
>>25181559You're essentially describing a tabletop RPG, which is just a rules-based way of constructing a narrative. If you're doing it with your buddies at a table you don't get the whole story written down, but lots of people play these kinds of games online already where it's fully documented by things like forum posts (in fact, besides /tg/ for general discussion, there's a board dedicated to these online versions: /qst/). And nothing prevents the dungeon master from chronicling a literary version of the events in any case. A TRPG doesn't have to be Dungeons & Dragons, and there are undoubtedly intrigue- or narrative-centric rulesets out there, and generalist rulesets for any kind of simulation (e.g., GURPS).If you eschew rules and just give everybody the same pages to write on, you get works like the Legacy of Totalitarianism in a Tundra, where one anon's story takes over another anon's story gets re-written to say "nigger" gets fixed by an admin gets back to the first anon's story with a new trajectory etc. It produces some unique writing that wouldn't happen otherwise (pic rel is a passage of that sort from Tundra that I think is great), but mostly it's shit, at least from my experience reading the first half of Tundra. It's mostly interesting from a cultural, nearly anthropological perspective, like exploring a group of people. Tundra was written in a publicly-available Google Doc by various /lit/ posters, and there were others like it later though I haven't read anything but Tundra. See:https://lit.trainroll.xyz/wiki/Collaborative_WorksIf you insist what you're describing isn't either of these or that they're not literary enough or not constrained enough, consider looking into what the Oulipo group did, which (if I remember right) included rules-based writing and group writing.
>>25181721Thanks for the response. I'm not too familiar with tabletop RPG, but my impression was that this was LARPing in its truest sense (in that everyone is in on the LARP).As for Legacy, I remember this and a bunch of other /lit/-written books a few years back, but my idea is different in that rather than simply posting a public word doc and allowing anyone to spam whatever they like, the in-real-time novel I have in mind would be carefully plotted and "published" / posted online in the guise of a real story which would then develop into something more complex, mysterious and interesting (along the lines of creepypasta). Readers would essentially form an audience of people both reading the text and also communicating with the other, discussing among themselves what will happen next and what may be going on that the OP is unaware of, offering advice, suggestions and waiting for the next "instalment" which would essentially be the next chapter, in literary terms.I was thinking of something like Cicada except that rather than inviting an audience to engage individually with the mystery, instead the author would essentially be documenting what is happening while also engaging with the readers, ostensibly blurring the lines between both. I think necessarily the plot would evolve from something relatable and mundane, into something sinister, mysterious, conspiratorial and hopefully entertaining in a direct way (due to it appearing to be actually taking place in real time).
>>25181815>in-real-time novel I have in mind would be carefully plotted and "published" / posted online in the guise of a real story >people both reading the text and also communicating with the other, discussing among themselves what will happen next and what may be going on Okay? Sounds like a regular old ARG/internet hoax. I'm certain the people behind shit like that adapted their plots based on how people were reacting.. If it's ultimately just you behind the scenes coming up with the story, then I don't see what's new about this or what you're really proposing.Look up Ben Drowned, because I'm pretty sure it's exactly what you have in mind. If you want a more literary take, read the Sluts by Dennis Cooper, although the entire account is fictional (the entire novel is entirely made up of fictional forum posts that include many characters interacting with a larger story).>the author would essentially be documenting what is happening while also engaging with the readers, ostensibly blurring the lines between bothThat's exactly what a dungeon master does.>my impression was that this was LARPing in its truest senseYes, but even with an ARG you're putting on some suspension of disbelief about the reality of the mystery that you're entering into; ultimately someone has constructed a puzzle with some conclusion. With a TRPG you simply have a broader set of options all of your players can engage with, as well as options that are essentially exclusively narrative in that they aren't explicitly determined by the rules (you're not rolling a die when you talk to another player in-game). A dungeon master decides a series of events that the players enter into, and then the players choose how to react to it, and the dungeon master has the world/plot respond to them.
>>25181559Problem Sleuth -> Homestuck.Homestuck is basically exactly what you're looking for, in addition to being the final boss of postmodern literature, for better or for worse.
>>25181559Profoundly cyberfeminist thread, OP.Can't wait for you to start fantasizing about raping the Matrix.
>>25181967>>25181972Thanks, I'll check those out.
>>25181979>>25181559Jokes aside, I have nothing specific to give you. However, I know that a lot of research on the hypertexual format was conducted by (cyber)feminists. They used to write entire books about hypertext. Recommending Cyberfeminism Index by Mindy Seu as a indexer of sources to check. I bet among them you can find some feminist seething about male authors writing hypertexts.
>>25181972> written to a high standard (i.e., respecting the literary craft)PS is good. Homestuck is mostly a waste of time with some good sprinkled in.
>>25181979>>25181989Thanks for that. I've read a little about hypertexts, and what is interesting is that many of them are studied in colleges etc (e.g., The Waves of Girls) but never really reached a wide audience.>>25181991Thanks - these seem to be conspicuously fictional however, in the sense that there is no effort to present the story as potential real, which is what I was trying to get at here. I'm thinking about a story that begins as a simple thread about some mundane if a little weird chance encounter or something, which develops into something more serious and sinister over the course of several threads. Ben Drowned seems to be something along those lines, as I'm reading about it.
You should look into alternate reality games OP. That's essentially what you're describing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM
>>25181993>these seem to be conspicuously fictional however, in the sense that there is no effort to present the story as potential real, which is what I was trying to get at here. Well, the main thing apart from the realness seemed to be the audience participation aspect, and Problem Sleuth & Homestuck were for the most part very heavily audience-driven, due to presenting itself like a quasi adventure game with a text interface when they were live and running. A character from Homestuck once had a blog running, there's a comic-within-a-comic with Homestuck, and there were live treasure hunts around it.Apart from the "plausibly real", "currently running" and the proportion of author-to-audience authorship, it's pretty much going to be exactly what you were looking for.The problem with the majority audience participation angle, is that if you've never roleplayed before, you've never encountered people who want to participate but don't Get It. Your idea is great sofar as only people who Get It participate. But without that, you immediately degenerate into garbage. So it is unfortunately a non-starter, which is why Actually Done narratives have heavy author direction and control.>>25181991>Homestuck is mostly a waste of time with some good sprinkled in.I said it was the final boss of postmodernism for a reason. It ended like shit intentionally because the torch was *supposed* to be passed to the MSPA readers to find some way to fix the story and its obviously dangling threads, after Lord English ruined the narrative (notice that the only characters who could have possibly stood up to him, Eridan and Jake, were completely maligned by the narrative, and Lord English is in control of the narrative that maligns them).It's one of, if not my absolute, favourite piece of media, but I also fucking hate it because postmodern literature techniques suck major balls, insists upon itself, and I believe Andrew Hussie only nosedived the story into his "it is shit on purpose, fix it yourself O Audience" because he got tired of dealing with the Homestuck fanbase, but being a legit genius he executed that nosedive with extreme artistic integrity and vision. I still hate the fact he did it, and hate the postmodern literary techniques, but I have to acknowledge the quality of what he's actually done.
>>25181559every single thread on this website is already a hypertext novel and that's just 4chan. the question of single authorship kills the idea, the point of a self-contained vision is the vision, and the print novel is the best form for that. trying to introduce an author's frame into hypertext is having your cake and eating it too, and i'd argue it's a relic of early digital age people thinking the future would be exactly like the past with shinier lights, much like curators who treat video art like it's a painting with sound and motion
