>You say you've read The Communist Manifesto and nobody bats an eye, but you say you've read Mein Kampf and everyone loses their minds!
Marx didn't kill 6 million jews
Hitler started the most destructive war in the history of humanity so there is that
>>25188403And so it begins.
>>25188415neither did Hitler>>25188416>Hitler went against the central banking system so there is thatFTFY faggot
>>25188415wtf I hate Marx now
>>25188419No matter what the actual figure was he was a monster unlike Marx
>>25188428>he was a monsterWhy do you wrongly think that?
>>25188403people who haven't read one book getting mad at people who haven't read another book. but even that is too real apparently, so instead they have to invent a strawman to get mad at and post it anonymouslyweirdo
>>25188435Go cry on /pol/
>>25188419Hitler was against the banking system as was Stalin
>>25188443I accept your concession. Feel free to return to reddit now.
>>25188454You asked lol sorry your head got filled up with incomprehensible nazi mindrot garbage they lost btw
>>25188475>buzzword buzzword buzzwordthanks for sharing, faggot
>>25188403Too bad, clown.
>>25188502Any time
>>25188415The Black Book of Communism (1997): Frequently cited source estimating over 94 million deaths, with roughly 65 million in China, 20 million in the USSR, and millions more in Cambodia, North Korea, and Eastern Europe.Rudolph Rummel's Estimates: Scholar Rudolph Rummel estimated "democide" (government-sponsored killing) at 110 million to over 140 million between 1917 and 1987.Key Contributing Events: Major man-made famines (such as the Holodomor and the Chinese Great Leap Forward), political executions (the Great Terror), and labor camp systems (Gulag) are cited as the primary causes of these deaths.Hush now, subhumans. Hush...
>>25188536Can we cite famines that happened prior to revolution in those countries as capitalist killings?
>>25188538Yes
>>25188542Then we can say that while capitalism failed to end famines happening in those lands, communism eventually succeeded?
>>25188545If you accept that it did so by the black book figures, sure.
>>25188546I accept that famines happened under communism. I also accept that communism ended famines, put a man in space, and industrialized two rural, war-ravaged states and turned them into global powers.
>>25188415He would have, given the opportunity
>>25188536Wow marx was busy
>>25188561Marxism was busy.
>>25188683now to take a BIG sip of water while I look up deaths caused by capitalism
>>25188538Fallacious expostulation. While capitalism is often marketed as a system of "voluntary exchange," historical and modern examples show it has been imposed by force, particularly through colonialism, imperialist wars, and military coups designed to secure resources, labor, and markets. We have Pinochet 's Chile (40k dead), Black October (147), and Nazi Germany (15m non-combatants) for contrast. Western states imposing capitalism on their populace at gunpoint, you ask? The Enclosure Acts in the UK (no specific, officially recorded total number of deaths) and the suppression of labor movements in the US, which had a pitiful 1000+ bodycount. Should have been more...Picrel and capitalism is the best, because, despite its best efforts and its admittedly higher bodycount, it just ain't efficient when it comes to wiping out the species. You commie fucks do a much better job. Took capitalists centuries. You got your 125m+ heads within 70 years.
>>25188700See:>>25188714Apples and oranges, boy.
>>25188714Capitalism started all of the most destructive wars in the history of the world and you're giving all of the death imposed through colonialism when the world population was so much lower? Even today capitalism continues to start shit and cause endless death, destruction and misery.
>>25188719I much prefer deaths for colonial capitalism than owning the means of production. You forget that you can still give mercy to the wrong people, just as you can give people the mercy of less surplus (and still horribly lose to another nation's power). "Less deaths" doesn't equal better. Creating more economic vacuums for dialectical swindlers already causes more death than for whatever it was worth. You're washing the causal effect of these statistics into a misleading segmentation. Marxist politics already had the opportunity to try "true" Marxism multiple times and failed, and now we're forced to negotiate with capitalism. What's your plan this time?
>>25188415skill issue
>>25188728Failed? What do you even mean? Communism industrialized Russia in a couple of decades after Hitler ravaged the country and killed 20m people kn trying to impose capitalism. Communism turned Russia into a global superpower. Communism sent a man into space. Ending communism in Russia made it immensely worse. Capitalism fucked eastern Europe.
>>25188719>Capitalism started all of the most destructive wars in the history of the worldYup, a warning from history. Capitalists are slowly learning. Communists aren't. Not talking about warring with other nations; I'm referring to the mass murder of their own...>colonialismThe very idea of it makes me giddy with delight. I wish my home nation would colonize some MORE.>capitalism continues to start shit and cause endless death, destruction and misery.But you can opt out. That's the difference...
>>25188403Tired of pretending Nazi Germany is morally equivalent to the USSR just because some Slavjeets got raped by Russia for 40 years. Fascist Italy and the USSR? Sure you could argue they’re pretty much morally equivalent. Nazi Germany though? Was evil af, even made the bolsheviks look sane in comparison. At least the USSR was built on an ideology that claimed to stand for le people even though its retarded af. Nazi ideology was the most resentful, nihilistic shit ever invented. Literally ISIS and Pol Pot tier. The only reason the USSR killed more was because they survived longer. At the rate the nazis were killing people, and what they planned to do with the east, they definitely would’ve killed more people than the USSR in 40 years time.
>>25188741Hitler is still worse than a capitalist. He was a power-hungry socialist, at least the nations we have under capitalism generally give more of a shit about wealth than Jews and Nietzschean "decadence".I say "Failed" as in it failed in light of capitalist industrialization multiple times. Industrialization through central planning eventually fails due to difficulties in management, or international competition and monopoly. It doesn't matter if the Soviets had proper industrialization for decades, they still were only prosperous until their hand was forced to Gorbachev. You can't argue for material conditions to be the same as the Soviets, because the material conditions we have in the 21st century are extremely different. You'd be effectively doing the same thing as Claude refusing to work with the department of war (I think hegseth is a retard, he isn't part of this point).You still didn't give me a plan of action because you can't even resort to any. I understand that the opportunity for proper central management could've been done better, but special economic zones are just too easy. People don't know how to do central planning, and it's no doubt a deadly lack of knowledge.
>>25188772>At least the USSR was built on an ideology that claimed to stand for le people even though its retarded afHitler did the same thing, he just scapegoated Jews. Millions more Christians have died under Stalin's regime. They both have their own "opiums of the crowd".
>>25188719Colonialism is based. My retarded Confederate ancestors tried to create a an aristocratic slave republic that would’ve inevitably become Haiti 2.0 had the capitalist Yankees not civilized us and abolished slavery by force. Sometimes other cultures are too retarded to rule themselves.
>>25188774Hitler was nothing but a political continuation of the Freikorps. The Freikorps's central mission was to extermination socialists in order to protect capitalism in GermanyGorbachev did not make them prosperous at all, many Russians consider him the worst leader Russia ever had, but ultimately he was the culmination of de-Stalinization which caused the Sino-Soviet split and destroyed the party's credibility within Russia. Had de-Stalinization not happened, Russia and China would have remained extremely solid allies and the party within Russia would have retained moral authority
>>25188789America taking all of Haiti's gold in a robbery during the early 20th Century did more than anything else to fuck the countryYour ancestors were greedy, destructive parasites would all deserved to be hanged. They wanted "an aristocratic slave republic" because poor whites had to be paid and couldn't be mistreated, so they kept their land in poverty. They also outlawed literacy for blacks in order to ensure they would take on a cultural or stupidity
>>25188741It’s not the 90s and 2000s anymore. Poland is literally going through a fucking golden age right now better than any point in its history because of capitalism.When you compare countries like Poland and Czechia today to what they were under communism, it really shows how much communism fucked them for all those decades. An entire lost century. It’s sad, really.
>>25188791>The Freikorps's central mission was to extermination socialists in order to protect capitalism in GermanyCool.>Gorbachev did not make them prosperous at allI didn't even say he did for the Soviets. >Had de-Stalinization not happened, Russia and China would have remained extremely solid allies and the party within Russia would have retained moral authorityGorbachev was only an ever idiot for not doing the same plans as Deng Xiaoping. Had he done that, maybe Russia would've retained the world power alongside China lmfao
>>25188778I agree that at their root both nazism and communism are built on resentment but at least communists strive for something.Capitalism is still superior to any of that shit.
>>25188801Gorbachev couldn't do anything, the party was already in serious decline, and in Russia as in China, the Party's authority is what held everything together, especially since Russia was the Soviet Union and not just Russia.
>>25188805Can't tell if you're the same person I responded to. If you are, what's your point? What made the party go into a serious decline?
>>25188804Nazism is capitalist. Nazism is an extreme reaction to save capitalism from socialism. Hitler firmly believed in preserving capitalists as a distinct class
>>25188806Also lead to the Sino-Soviet Split, which is why America was able to turn Mao from the Soviet Union
>>25188796True, now imagine if the Yankees didn’t conquer us and abolish slavery by force. They essential colonized us and enforced their values and capitalism on our backwards agrarian society. Were it not for that and also them stopping retarded shit like segregation we would be a shitty South Africa tier country instead of the fastest growing region in the US. Colonialism is based af.
>>25188809So, why did widespread historical nihilism ever begin to happen there if the conditions under the soviet union happened to be great for everyone? What kind of struggles were they undergoing for them to resort to repudiating Lenin and Stalin?
>>25188808Commie cope to fit nazism into their scientific railroad version of history after Marx failed to predict it.
>>25188808That's right. Only as a class, not to the point of enough liberty to produce anything of great value. This kind of constraint is probably what caused the Nazis to start stealing everything and enhance their colonial spread.
>>25188811The South was capitalist. The South has representation in congress and the senate and were heavily involved in forming the country and the Vice President under Lincoln was southern. Most of the states that left did so with zero popular vote or rampant voter intimidation, with Texas removing Houston from governorship because he refused to go along with it. The states that left then realized they were fucked because not enough were going along with it and the Federal government could just safely ignore it. So they attacked a Federal fort in order to provoke an invasion and rally more states to them.
>>25188741>Communism industrialized Russia in a couple of decades after Hitler ravaged the country and killed 20m people kn trying to impose capitalismThe USSR was full of shithole states, all which clung to life. Nation socialism isn't western capitalism.>Communism turned Russia into a global superpowerPossessing nuclear weapons doesn't make you a superpower. There's just a little bit more to it than that.>Communism sent a man into spaceAnd the people felt the hit. Also never would have happened if the Soviet Union heavily relied on stolen American design documents, computer, and technical data, etc.>Ending communism in Russia made it immensely worse. Capitalism fucked eastern Europe.HAHAHAHA! Yes, I'm sure most Koreans are inconsolable in the knowledge that they're almost five inches taller on average than their commie neighbors to the north...
>>25188741This has nothing to do with communism specifically. Any centralized authoritarian power structure could have done this. >>25188800This has nothing to do with capitalism specifically but with Poland receiving EU gibs and suddenly having access to technology and expertise from the West. No system should be judged as successful when it's leeching off of its neighbors which the USSR did extensively (especially East Germany) and which many underdeveloped capitalist states do today.The actual forefront of human development is now advancing extremely slowly. Most European economies are barely growing. In East Asia, Japan's economy has been stagnant for a generation and they're tumbling down the rankings of human development. When you consider the issue of birth rates, then both capitalism and communism appear extremely problematic.
>>25188818It's exactly what you just agreed with when I said Hitler was just a continuation of the Freikorps. Hitler explicitly said he wanted class collaboration between capitalists and their employees not class war>>25188820Yeah bro the East India Company didn't steal they just produced value
FACT: Marx was not a marxist
>>25188823"National socialism" is every inch western capitalism. France had nuclear weapons. The USSR was a global superpower.Yeah bro it was all American tech and research that got the USSR there before AmericaNorth Korea is economically sanctioned and isolated by most of the world as punishment for socialism and as a warning against other potentially socialist states>>25188824There have been countless authoritarian states. They didn't do that
>>25188827>Yeah bro the East India Company didn't steal they just produced valueI never even spoke about the east India company. I'm not the same person as >>25188818; they never mentioned it either.Innovation still always equals stealing though, right? The USSR must've stolen the tech in their sputnik satellites. I don't even take that much of an issue with stealing wealth because I know it's a retarded moral red herring. >>25188833>"National socialism" is every inch western capitalism.How? Because Hitler hired a capitalist class? Sure thing, it's the same at every inch...
>>25188545Why are you changing the topic? The debate was Mein Kampf vs Communist manifesto. Hitler vs Marx. Hitler caused the death of 20 million. Marx 80-100 according to different sources.
>>25188475He asked, you didn't answer, thus you conceded.
Polacks shut the fuck up and leave please
>>25188850reddit is down the hall and to the left
>>25188821Nope we were an agrarian Ancien Regime slave society. Also yes my ancestors were retarded af which is why the Yankees had to slap the shit out of them and civilize them from time to time, just like the Brits had to do to all the retards in Africa and India doing 3rd world shit. Colonialism is based. If the Yankees never civilized my ancestors by abolishing slavery and later segregation we would be a shithole today.
>>25188861>If the Yankees never civilized my ancestors by abolishing slavery and later segregation we would be a shithole today....what?
>>25188403>The Communist Manifesto> 11,500 words>Mein Kapf>278,000 words.You are majorly underestimating how anti-intellectual modern society is and why "short form" content is the order of the day.
>>25188864I said colonialism is based af. My ancestors tried to create a retarded fucking agrarian slave state but the Yankees intervened and stopped us from being retarded. The brits did the same in Africa and India.
>>25188867this is the most retarded, warped version of history I've ever read. congrats, faggot.
>>25188403Mein Kampf is literally just hundreds of pages of Hitler whining like a little bitch and blaming the rest of the world for his personal problems.I got well over halfway through and dropped it because I was sick of reading an imprisoned dink go B'AAAAWWWWW. Yes, I'm a straight white lutheran German man with green eyes.
>>25188910Hitler had a brown SOVL
>>25188415Hey, nobody's perfect.
>>25188403Lame. Fake and gay, just like 60% of fascists.
Why are there retards itt ignoring that global capitalism arose upon the slave trade, sustained itself on the global opium trade, upended all the old social orders of europe, and and that post war american sanctions have killed tens of millions in the last several decades to the side of endless imperial wars just so that kikes in NYC can make a few bucks and the underclass can stuff their faces with slop till they keel over and die in their subprime mortgage mcmansion
>>25189044Too many people derive their political ideology based on the opposite opinion of a group (sometimes even a single person) they don't like.The wrong type of people openly criticize capitalism and thus a huge swath of other people have to pretend to like it so as to appear on the 'other side' of the issue.
>>25188772USSR is indistinguishable from fascism.Nazbol is literally just Stalinism.Replace the flags and you can't tell the difference in BW footage, except for the occasional old Russian church.
>>25189044I didn't know Islam/north Africa created capitalism. Tell me more
>>25188833>"National socialism" is every inch western capitalismDidn't know government being 50/50 coowners of monopolistic companies that get to skip in line for access to resources was principally capitalism.Sounds like what Sweden does in inspiration of Fascism and what USSR started doing after Stalin.Late stage communism is indistinguishable from State Capitalism is indistinguishable from the economic dimension of Fascism.Add militarism onto state capitalism + safety net to the poorest and that's LITERALLY fascism. THAT'S ALL FASCISM ISYou'd find most people are actually fascists thru just don't like the word.
