What kind of mindset leads people to think that authors like Pynchon, Delillo and DFW are inferior to the likes of Borges, Carlos Fuentes and Marquez? I've seen this opinion way too much on /lit/. Is it europoor/thirdie seethe over American excellence and dominance? Is it the fact that most people don't care about their language enough to learn it and find out that the prose is actually subpar? I don't get it. On one hand you have the pinnacle of centuries of literary progress and on the other you have "magical realism" voodoo that only superstitious white women can find interesting. Magical realism is one of the most embarrassing genres to come out of literature. You have to be delusional to think otherwise.
>>25191344>muh genre muh plotWhy do you pretend to have read Pynch?
To accept Pynchon as a quality writer is to garb yourself in a coat of hot pockets and video games and then writhe around on the ground in a supermarket while screeching and slapping yourself on the sides of your head.He is cheeto dust. Nothing more.Nothing more than a hack, a useful tool for publishers to trot out to say "Hey, we're making literary fiction!" I cannot wrap my head around the adulation he receives, let alone the wide praise this has got. The book trudges from set piece to set piece, leaves us no real questions or anything to think about really.The same bullet that kills a Foster Wallace fan will also kill the Pynchon and Delillo fan. They come from the same root, from the same doritos stained console. They are frauds, and as a warrior of literature it's my duty to expose the fakes and the inauthentic when I see them. I will fight with crawls and teeth until the last imposter is fallen to the groundI have about as much respect for Thomas Pynchon as I do for the dogshit on my shoe. It is reddit. It is video game hot pocket. It is capeshit. It is cheeto dust. I'm literally screaming right now and slamming my arms down on my desk just thinking about it.It is the most depraved video game infantilized manchild degeneracy. It is saturday morning cartoon. It is non-neurotypicality. It is memes. It is video game. It is tarantino. It is imdb.It is coca-cola puberty. it is axe body spray. it is a white stain on boxer shorts. it is arri alexa hot dog caffeine on disney channel.
>>25191344You should read Gosta Berlinger saga of Selma Lagerlof. It’s basically magic realism for white people ie it borrows from Norse myths and Christian influence
>>25191348Pynchon is a miserable hack whose movies are propped up entirely by reddit meme writing which gets the r/literature and r/truelit pleb crowd all hot and bothered. It is the death knell of Literature. One of the biggest trashmasters working today, a hack's hack. This is hot pocket the writer. Cheeto dust: the man.His books are a bad joke; an insult to the literary medium; a gob of spit aimed at all that is good and great about literature. Another polished postmodern gritty popcorn writer.
>>25191348Yes, and? What of it? His books are fun, and literature is supposed to be fun. I'm just as capable of enjoying Pinecone, vidya and Tarantino.
>>25191344>American excellenceThat’s adorable, you’ve had two good writers, ever. They were amazing writers, among the absolute greatest, alas, only two. I could settle for four actually but they’re not quite as good as the main two I’m thinking of. Oh, just so you know, the three subpar pomosexuals in your OP? Yeah I’m not talking about them.
>>25191378Pynched. I like Tommy more than James, Faulkner, Gaddis and Corncob (though I'll consneed Melville’s superiority)
>>25191344You're allowed to like both, it's okay
>>25191376You're a manchild.
>>25191385And you're a bore.
>>25191381Well, I was talking about Melville and Dickinson. The others? Nah.
>>25191389Poetry is cheating, though I'll admit she's better than Tommy.
>>25191388I'd kill you if given the opportunity.
>>25191394
Pynchon’s my least favorite writer for sure, because my least favorite thing in books is goofs, gags, jokes and rambunctious behavior, and his books are filled to the brim with this. Every novel is like one of those novelty snake cans, you open the book and POP you get a face fulla snakes and you wince silently. The faggot, the redditor, to do it. And then you think “what’s he gonna do next, this shithead” and you pick the book back up and BZZZZ you get a shock and “chrissake” you've been pranked again by "the old Pynchmeister", that loser. “Did that Pynch?” he "sez", laughing “yukyukyukyuk”. Watch him as he shoves a pair of plastic buck teeth right up his mouth and displays em for you – left, right, center – “You like these? Do I look handsome?” Pulls out a mirror. “Ah!” I wish I was exaggerating. And you're in physical pain cringing as he snaps his suspenders, exits stage right, and reappears hauling a huge golden gong
>>25191405You're insane.
>>25191344>On one hand you have the pinnacle of centuries of literary progress Imagining that there exists exactly one ordering of literary quality is the biggest delusion imaginable, actually. Art exists for the audience, even if that's just the author himself. That's not to say there aren't value systems which do privilege a particular ordering, but I guarantee you didn't subscribe to any of them.
>>25191457*Don't
>>25191349>It’s basically magic realism for white people ie it borrows from Norse myths and Christian influence
>>25191404should’ve known the person always saying “pynched” in every thread is a brown redditor
>>25191381Oh well you're retarded
>>25191376good man. have you gotten to Bleeding Edge yet? he brings out some good video game/anime/tech knowledge there
>>25191569>e brings out some good video game/anime/tech knowledge thereKnowing that Metal Gear Solid exists or that Misty has a Psyduck are not exactly deep cuts
>>25191569Nope, I'm fresh off of GR. Next up is Vineland, which I'm told is Pynchon at his worst, but I also think a break from GR's sheer density is in order. Looking forward to son & xon.
>>25191584>son & xonPynchon is the master. Don’t disrespect him by referring to his books like a dumb nigger ape. If you can’t discuss Pynchon in an intellectual manner he is deserving of, then go talk about a topic more befitting your intelligence level, mr. redditor. Is that clear or are you going to chimp out like a dumb nigger about it!
>>25191344Your list doesn't make any sense. Borges and Márquez are orders of magnitude above the rest of them in quality.
>>25191344I haven‘t read any of those but a few pages of 100 years and it sounded so gay and pointless. I think I generally agree American literature is better since Europe is basically culturally dead.
>>25191611"Some of us have more Backbone, I suppose....""A bodily Part too often undistinguish'd," Dixon replies, "from a Ram-Rod up the Arse."
>>25191622If you think Borges is an anyway superior to Pynchon then you're a midwit.
>>25191640This but the opposite. Pynchon is midwit crack.
>>25191638You had a choice between intellectual discussion of Pynchon or chimping out like a dumb nigger ape and you chose the latter? Ok, let’s discuss something more your level of intelligence. Hiw about nigger dicks? I bet you love those nigger dicks don’t you?
>>25191640>anywayESL? Maybe Pynchon’s not for you. Stick to marvel movies, paco.
>>25191657Lmao. Read the comment again retard.
>>25191640You're retarded
>>25191576theres a little more in there than just those come on now
>>25191668Fucking hell, Paco. Are you really this much of a retarded cunt? Pynchon is not for you. Stick to spanish dubbed marvel movies, you dumb brown faggot.
>>25191681The biggest pynchon shill on the internet is a faggy mexican with a substack
>>25191584Inherent Vice might be an interesting detour after Vineland. its one of his more accessible books
>>25191640Borges is in "manyways" superior to Pynchon. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, José. This is simply a fact.
>>25191344>Borges>Fuentes>Magical RealismWhy are you an idiot?I am sure you have never read a page of either Borges or Fuentes if you think that.By the way, Pynchon wrote this about "Love in the Time of Cholera" by Márquez:>This novel is also revolutionary in daring to suggest that vows of love made under a presumption of immortality – youthful idiocy, to some – may yet be honored, much later in life when we ought to know better, in the face of the undeniable. ... >There is nothing I have read quite like this astonishing final chapter, symphonic, sure in its dynamics and tempo, moving like a riverboat too ... at the very best it results in works that can even return our worn souls to us, among which most certainly belongs Love in the Time of Cholera, this shining and heartbreaking novel.This novel by Márquez isn't magical realism either, by the way.I don't understand why ignorant people who don't read enough feel entitled to their embarrassing opinions.
ITT: The eternal vacillations of taste mediated by contrarianism alone. Worry not, Pynchon et al. will flip back to their previous popularity soon enough, and back to being hated again, and so on, forever. There is no mechanism at play here beyond what is anti-popular. Read any of the top 100 /lit/ lists and find something sensible perhaps. Always Pynchon near the top. But we can't have it if someone on Reddit agrees.
>>25191696Those 100 lists are created by reddit
Not even funny… I wasted my moneyFuck him, I thought I was gonna get zingers and BZZZZZZs and guffaw galore but I got reddit tripe instead.
>>25191709Sure, whatever. Get ready to be told to hate Moby Dick because people like it. Throw out the whole Canon because if you can't have it alone, it's meaningless. Utter nonsense. Try using that brain to produce thought that isn't entirely inculcated through exposure to 4chan.
>>25191344You concede right in the OP that you "like" Pinecone and co for the prose and the "literary progress" that they represent. These are performative attributes. Superficial markers of quality. You can read Marquez on the other hand and actually enjoy the experience of reading him. He can actually tell a story and write characters and execute universal themes without relying entirely on intellectual scaffolding. With the others you glean at once that their fiction is a thin veil for the ideas behind them, while with Marquez he creates a true fictional world, which none of those Americans were able to do. It's the difference between an essay and a poem, or a description and a metaphor
>>25191723I'm just sayin'
>>25191725What? But I like Pynchon's prose because it's a joy to experience
>>25191723Oh yeah, I remember Moby-Dick hate threads a year or so ago. Wouldn't be surprised if it were the same guy who just got to Pynchon.Pynch is safe in the sense that he's a shitposter at heart. Anything that happens on /lit/, he already wrote about in his books, just ten times wilder. It's like trying to cancel Rabelais and Sterne.
>>25191723You don't need to know someone on reddit enjoys Pynchon to know is shit.>>25191405 is spot on.The prose is childish convoluted cacophony. >>25191738Case in point.
>>25191745OK RETARD
>>25191732In my view, the sudden tide of people denouncing pomo is just as performative a plea for authenticity as the wave of neo-catholics who found a beautifully ornate chryselephantine Jesus on TikTok and now decry a "lack of sovl" whenever they encounter something previously popular. It's a mindless coherence to aesthetic trend, all intent and purpose carved out, built from contrarianism.
>>25191745more like cacaphony LEL
>>25191751Don't care about any of that, those lists are just plain redd*t. Never even seen a threat constructing them, just one day oh here you go new list drop! Come on...
>>25191751It's funny coz Pynch is one of the most earnest pleas for OLD GOOD NEW BAD I read. I betcha they think all the CIA shenanigans he documents in GR are something he personally approves.
>>25191405Joyless old turd who thinks he is a far better writer than he is.
>>25191750Just stop embarrasing yourself.>>25191756This truly is a great expression of the metaphysics of "american" life. Black men fetishization, literal shit eating. Rejoicing in depravity.This is peak intellectual discourse to them.
>>25191759https://warosu.org/lit/thread/7205104Years and years of having them. Guess you missed them all? Well, no one from back then is here, anymore.
>>25191756I assure you, it was essential to the plot. There's a lot of character development going on under the surface in that scene.
>>25191776That thread is not real
When I think of Thomas Pynchon’s books, I think of froot loops with an action figure inside, but the action figure is stained with cum, as are the froot loops.
>>25191781Yeah
>>25191780I have it open right here. Care to elaborate? Of course you won't. It's "Reddit" to do anything at all. Including posting on /lit/.
>>25191405>my least favorite thing in books is goofs, gags, jokes and rambunctious behavioryou're like the teacher in Dead Poet's Society that wasn't Robin Williams
>>25191779> was essential to the plotStop being so fucking retarded. Pynchon doesn’t concern himself with plot, and if you plotfag him you’re worse than the people disparaging him itt. God, dumbasses like you piss me off.
More likePynchons my fav writer for sure because my fav thing in books is goofs, gags, jokes and rambunctious behavior, and his books are full to the brim of it. Every novel is like one of those novelty snake cans, you open the book & POP you get a face fulla snakes and you fall back cackling. The mad mind, the crack genius, to do it! and then you think hmmm whats he gonna do next, this trickster, and you pick the book back up and BZZZZZZZZZZ you get a shock and Hahahahahah you've been pranked again by the old pynchmeister, that card. "Did that Pynch?" he says, laughing yukyukyukyuk. Watch him as he shoves a pair of plastic buck teeth right up into his mouth and displays em for you- left, right, center- "you like dese? Do i look handsome???" Pulls out a mirror. "Ah!" Hand to naughty mouth. And you're on your ass again laughing as he snaps his suspenders, exits stage right, and appears again hauling a huge golden gong.
>>25191756Oh god that is disgusting. How did this shit get psyopped into being considered highbrow literature?
>>25191805>Pynchon doesn’t concern himself with plotBut Gravity's Rainbow contains many intersecting plots. So he obviously did concern himself with them.
>>25191812Yes
>>25191812
>>25191805You're retarded
>>25191813Do you want to talk about Pynchon or do you want to be a retarded cunt? Because right now you're heavily leaning towards the latter? If you want to post another asinine take I'll dip and leave it to you, if you want to talk about Pynchon, actually post something worthy of someone like him.
>>25191812It’s considered middlebrow at best.>>25191756Thanks anon, now I’m hard as fuck at work.
>>25191822Worst poster on the board award
>>25191819You know, I can expect the retardedness from the people who hate Pynchon, but it's when the people who profess liking Pynchon act more retarded that's so disheartening to me when I read threads like these. Close the thread. Go open the Pynchon Wiki and your copy of Gravity's Rainbow and start over.
>>25191822you seem greatly upset about something
>>25191822Damn, you called it. He could have discussed Pynchon but he decided to act like a retard. How did you know he was going to do that?
>>25191812Well there’s one place where Shit ’n’ Shinola do come together, and that’s in the men’s toiletat the Roseland Ballroom, the place Slothrop departed from on his trip down the toilet, asrevealed in the St. Veronica Papers (preserved, mysteriously, from that hospital’s greatholocaust). Shit, now, is the color white folks are afraid of. Shit is the presence of death, notsome abstract-arty character with a scythe but the stiff and rotting corpse itself inside thewhiteman’s warm and private own asshole, which is getting pretty intimate. That’s what thatwhite toilet’s for. You see many brown toilets? Nope, toilet’s the color of gravestones, classicalcolumns of mausoleums, that white porcelain’s the very emblem of Odorless and OfficialDeath. Shinola shoeshine polish happens to be the color of Shit. Shoeshine boy Malcolm’s inthe toilet slappin’ on the Shinola, working off whiteman’s penance on his sin of being born thecolor of Shit ’n’ Shinola. It is nice to think that one Saturday night, one floor-shakingLindyhopping Roseland night, Malcolm looked up from some Harvard kid’s shoes and caughtthe eye of Jack Kennedy (the Ambassador’s son), then a senior. Nice to think that young Jackmay have had one of them Immortal Lightbulbs then go on overhead—did Red suspend hisragpopping just the shadow of a beat, just enough gap in the moiré there to let white Jack seethrough, not through to but through through the shine on his classmate Tyrone Slothrop’sshoes? Were the three ever lined up that way—sitting, squatting, passing through? EventuallyJack and Malcolm both got murdered. Slothrop’s fate is not so clear. It may be that They havesomething different in mind for Slothrop.
>You know, I can expect the retardedness from the people who hate Pynchon, but it's when the people who profess liking Pynchon act more retarded that's so disheartening to me when I read threads like these. Close the thread. Go open the Pynchon Wiki and your copy of Gravity's Rainbow and start over.
This ridiculous idea that pynchon ever was good was a /lit/ psyop when the whole board was impressionable young men. The audacity to put him in the same sentence as Moby-dick....
>>25191830I am. Dumbasses who talk about liking Pynchon but then embarass the rest of us Pynchon fans by talking like an idiot and plotfagging him. I guess if stupidity doesn't piss you off then you're living a carefree life, congrats.
>>25191831Talking to yourself is a sign of severe mental illness.
>>25191831These dumbasses who can't do anything but plotfag are as easy to read as the only type of books they can actually enjoy: genreshit. Their feeble attempts at reading Pynchon by plotfagging him just highlight how midwit they are.
>>25191819Are you a woman? You certainly have the sense of humor of one.
>>25191837>I amwell get off the internet and go take some breaths lil bro
>>25191846Nah, it doesn't work. When dumbass niggers like you can't actually understand Pynchon then make him look bad to his haters I can't stop getting angry. Do you need some help with Pynchon? Maybe start with the Pynchon Wiki.
I like how the whole thread is just Tommy and no nobody ain't talking about DFW and The Lilo
>>25191850This must be a bot.
>>25191851Can you say something intellectual about Pynchon instead of posting off-topic? Or is he above your level?
>>25191844pynchon is genreshit, retard
>>25191858All this time you could have been posting about Pynchon instead of chimping out. But what choice did you make...
>>25191860Yep. Melville and Nabokov too btw
>>25191850>I can't stop getting angryskill issue
This thread is really funny. There’s something more lighthearted and frivolous about it compared to other threads like these.
>>25191866>Nothing about PynchonYou can't do it can you. You can't articulate one coherent thought about Pynchon can you. It's much easier for you to act like a dumb retarded nigger, isn't it?
>>25191867It's /comfy/. Like your average /v/ thread.
>>25191866You should be forcefully feminized and raped weeb.
I want to eat Katje’s shit too….
Why are Pynchon threads so invariably shit? Everytime I open one to talk about him it's always an absolute trainwreck shitshow like this one.
>>25191868>You can't articulate one coherent thought about Pynchon can youI like his plots.
>>25191878>anon posts bait>I'm physically incapable of not biting baitAnd the rest is shrimple
>>25191874yeah you would like that wouldn't you, you big homo
>>25191883Ok, so you obviously can't discuss Pynchon. What's a different topic that would suit your midwit brain better? Nigger cum?
>>25191878Just go to warosu and use an upper limit of 2015 in the search. There's nothing worth preserving here.
>>25191887
>>25191878The Pynchon subleddit may very well be more your speed. We celebrate the writing of the Pynchinator properly here by shit talking each other and engaging in ZANY and OUTRAGEOUS discourse, but it’s all in gaiety.
So what's all this hubbub 'bout Kirghiz Light anyway?
>>25191888>you don't want to talk about Pychon? let's talk about nigger cumthe two heavily intersect
>>25191908It's kinda just a riff on the USSR civilizing the nomads and mirrors Tchicherine's overall plot
>>25191902I don't know that I've ever seen anyone on 4chan get as mad as you are about Thomas Pynchon right now.
>>25191878I think because most grad students don't post here anymore. I'm a grad student and I just skim these threads but never post because, well, just look at this one.There's that one anon who I disagree with (in terms of his conclusions) but you can tell he actually knows literature. He posts a lot in the DFW and Joyce threads as well. He's got a particular way of 'talking' so it's easy to recognise him once you get used to it. There's also that one anon who posts anime and simpsons pictures, but he never says anything worth discussing beyond he likes Pynchon. I assume he's one of those people who read Pynchon just to say he did it so he can appear intellectual.So yeah, I recommend not coming here for actual discussion. Use jstor or get the doi number and get whatever paper you want off anna's as well as getting book-length studies from there. I seriously need to leave this place.
>>25191927MFA or English lit?
>>25191923I've seen someone get madder. That one anon who was calling out the retards for not being able to actually discuss Pynchon and instead just engage with the trolls. I think he actually has a point if I'm being honest. Those who continue engaging and just post "lel epic you're mad!!" are in reality just as dumb as those who call Pynchon retarded. Maybe worse.
>>25191923That’s some serious projection if I ever saw it. I’m having a good time in this thread. I like Pynchon, not so much that I’d jump to defend him, and I don’t dislike him enough to ridicule him. I’m not really engaging in the arguments here either.
>>25191927>I'm a grad studentget a real job, hippy
>>25191938>I’m having a good time in this thread.Yeah, I can tell by how angry you are.
>>25191942Calling people hippies in the pynchon thread that's rich
>>25191947This is a Pynchon hate thread now.
>>25191927>There's that one anon who I disagree with (in terms of his conclusions) but you can tell he actually knows literature. He posts a lot in the DFW and Joyce threads as well. He's got a particular way of 'talking' so it's easy to recognise him once you get used to it.Drunk DFW Anon, probably.>There's also that one anon who posts anime and simpsons pictures, but he never says anything worth discussing beyond he likes Pynchon. I assume he's one of those people who read Pynchon just to say he did it so he can appear intellectual.I'm glad he does. The trolls are easy to spot. But the ones defend him but actually have nothing to say about him are harder to filter out. Or maybe I'm just not as good at spotting the midwits as I am the trolls.
>>25191944Sure lel, I’ve barely posted in this thread. If you think I’m angry though, that’s fine, think that, the back and forth here is fun anyhow.
>>25191954So then you must love hippies kekw
>>25191947Pynchon actually has a pretty criticial view of hippies if you read beyond the surface level. You should try it.
>>25191927>I seriously need to leave this place.I'm right behind you. I really feel like this thread was the tipping point. Going to post this, close the tab, and never come back.
>>25191927>also that one anon who posts animeI keep my "posts anime/shitposting" and "actual discussion" personas separate. I've made plenty of effortposts on a variety of authors, Pynchon included, but in actual threads conductive of real discussion. This is clearly a shitpost thread that functions more like /v/ than anything else. Just look at the speed of this thing, /lit/ is pretty fast if it can garner 5 posts an hour, and this can be counted in posts per minute.For what it's worth, I think the baseline to understanding Pynchon's method is realising that he's not writing novels, he's writing Menippean Satires. Most of the criticism he gets arises from the core characteristics of the Menippean method; from the shallow characters to the plotlessness/episodic nature of his writing.Kharpertian, Theodore D. A Hand to Turn the Time: The Menippean Satires of Thomas Pynchon. Rutherford: Fairleigh Dickinson U P, 1990.
>>25191864No
>>25191968ok see you tomorrow
>>25191348Ok now this is epic.
>>25191975>conductive
>>25191985Get it? Coz science, ahyuk
>>25191975Menippean satires have long had their medium in novels. You seem to have come to the term rather recently it seems
You faggots take this shit too seriously. Just try for once in your lives to have a laugh. The thread wasn’t particularly off to the best start to begin with. You’re right in one thing, which is that /lit/ is no longer the place to discuss literature seriously. But while you’re here, just fuck around. So what someone doesn’t like your favourite author, or you think their taste is shit; It’s not a reason to get all dolorous and angry. I’ve been coming back here recently after not posting on /lit/ for a good 11 years. And its changed sure, but I swear a lot of you really need to loosen up a little.I like you guys, but you all grow bitterer by the day.
>>25191975>For what it's worth, I think the baseline to understanding Pynchon's method is realising that he's not writing novelsWell, I think that you actually misunderstand what a novel is, but if you really want to separate them then the man himself disagrees with you.>By the time I wrote "The Secret Integration" I was embarked on this phase of the business. I had published a novel
>>25191990>Frye found the term Menippean satire to be "cumbersome and in modern terms rather misleading", and proposed as replacement the term anatomy (taken from Burton's Anatomy of Melancholy). In his theory of prose fiction it occupies the fourth place with the novel, romance and confession.Is chivalric romance a type of novel? Whether you decide to count Menippean Satires/Anatomies as a subgenre of the novel, or treat it as its own little thing, it doesn't change the fact that I hardly ever see anyone mention the term on /lit/.
Pynchon characters aren't flat just loosely defined
>>25191693Nice. LitToC has been one of my favorite novels ever since I read it; it's cool that a historically established writer feels its power similarly. I remember his endorsement was on the cover of my copy, calling it "shining and heartbreaking," thought I'm still confused about what he thought was heartbreaking about it. It actually had a quite affirming ending imo
>>25192015I think you can get a lot out of Mexico, Enzian, Blicero or Thitcherine, but the vast majority of Pynchon characters are one-off gags. Or like Tyrone they're more of an idea than a concrete character.
>I made a couple I'd Pynchfags leave the board.No need to thank me you guys. Just pay it forward by making more of them leave.
>>25191344Americans love to overrate these hacks
>>25192040Sorry dude, Pynchon's stuck here forever
Since this a Pynchon thread now (I care not for the whole detractor/defender trend that’s taken over this board in recent years) I haven’t read GR in years, I would like to read it again eventually. I recall enjoying it a fair bit though not as much as I’d have liked; the last sections were brilliant though. I forget, the chronology of the book can be quite tricky to pin down at times. For anyone who’s recently read it, or is more familiar with the book than I, I’m curious about the launching of 00000, when exactly did it launch? I know it was Blicero, but if I recall correctly it has already launched by the time he becomes aware of it. I always wondered what the correlation between it and him was. They often seemed like he and the rocket lived “outside the book” and thus had some sort of historical connection in that sense. Anyway, forgive my shitty articulation.
>>25192116After katja leaves before slothrop reaches Anubis
>>25192121wrong, did you actually read it?
>>25192123?
>>25192116InGravity's Rainbow, Rocket 00000 is launched by Captain Blicero (Weissmann) in Part 4, Chapter 13 of the novel. Chronologically, this event takes place around Easter weekend in April 1945, specifically during the chaotic final days of the war in Europe, often cited as a cold spring noonday on Lüneburg Heath. The Context: The launch occurs after the "analeptic recall" of that spring day, with the rocket carrying Gottfried, Blicero's lover, as a "sacrificial payload". The Launch Scene: The 13th subsection of the final part depicts the launch, with the 14th subsection describing the rocket lifting off, the fuel burning, and the rocket reaching its peak. The Disputed Landing: While the launch occurs in April 1945, the novel's final, surreal scenes describe a rocket—possibly 00000 or the successor 00001—landing in a Los Angeles movie theater, suggesting a "prolepsis" (flash-forward) to 1970, or perhaps an eternal, circular recurrence of the rocket's flight.
>>25192126> While the launch occurs in April 1945, the novel's final, surreal scenes describe a rocket—possibly 00000 or the successor 00001—landing in a Los Angeles movie theater, suggesting a "prolepsis" (flash-forward) to 1970, or perhaps an eternal, circular recurrence of the rocket's flight.This is the kind of shit you get when you use AI.
>>25192131What's wrong about it?
>>25192133Did you read the book
>>25192134Did you?
>>25192126>the successor 00001—landing in a Los Angeles movie theater, suggesting a "prolepsis" (flash-forward) to 1970, or perhaps an eternal, circular recurrence of the rocket's flight.Thanks GPT/Gemini or whatever.More reason to suggest the rockets refusing to adhere to the laws of the book. And Slothrop too, almost as if he becomes less of a character and begins to embody the book himself. Or loses himself, again, it’s been quite a while. I don’t often talk about the book either.>>>25192121>slothrop reaches AnubisThis would make sense thematically since isn’t that where the novel begins to take a sort of darker turn?
>>25192137>dodging the questionIs it a difficult question for you? Did you or did you not read it? If not, is there something else you would prefer to discuss?
>>25192134>>25192142>can't answer the questionI accept your concession.
>>25192139People are talking about it there and I think he learns about it there too
>>25192139>>25192126Let me just add, “1970” seems incorrect. I’m not sure the date is even explicitly stated, it could be right now. This is just in context to when the book was written.
>>25192146I see, so you want to just declare that like a little kid. I gave you the opportunity to discuss Pynchon and you balked, like a little coward. Why?
Man you guys are stuck with your faces so deep inside your own ass that you can't notice the stench anymore what a useless board
What an absolute shitshow of a thread. I can't believe people are actually using AI. In a Pynchon thread. This is what happens when autodidacts try to discuss literature instead of actually going to grad school.
>>25192149>I refused to answer your question, but why don't you answer mine?Because you're a retarded pseud pretending to know what he's talking about and speaking in vagueries, so, like your dad figured out, you're just not worth it.
>>25192150Just trying to repair what I can of the thread, anon. Don’t be so negative.
>>25192157Pynchon's pro AI just wary of it being exploited by the corporations
>>25192157>grad school
>>25192159>muh daddyWhy do you talk like that? Are you in high school? Or just a midwit? Why do you discuss anything but Pynchon?
>>25192161How's that autodidact degree treating you?
>>25192165>let me ask 4 more questions, even though I refuse to answer the one you asked firstoh no! that's another concession!
>>25192169Maybe this topic is beyond you? Should we discuss something more your level? Nigger dicks maybe?
Why can't you just tell us what's wrong about it? Why all the dodging and hostility?
>>25192166Excuse me?
>>25192157MFA/literature degrees are useless. They produce dogmatic douchebags who are so narrow minded that they won't produce anything of value.
>>25192157You paid an obscene amount of money just to still get btfo by neets on /lit/. Your life is a farce.
>>25192139Adding to this, considering Slothrop. In the climax of the novel, do you think he’s been completely cut off from the story after losing himself completely? Has he as I thought, become “the novel” itself (as stupid as that theory is)? Is the last couple hundred pages just a fragmented stream of consciousness? I know these are all questions that have probably been asked and answered according to one’s own exegesis, but I’m curious to know what you gents think.
>>25192116Pretty sure it takes place just before V-E Day, but I've been scouring the book but can't seem to find it. I know Thanatz reveals it to Enzian, but I can't find a specific quote.I did find where the launch took place. Lüneburg Heath, both 00000 and 00001.
>>25192197I’ll take another look through myself. Thanks anon!
wait, is the grad student one of the reddit pynchon fags?oh my science!
Pynchon absolutely loves Borges and even read him in Spanish.These kind of asinine takes where people shout "uuhhh pynchon absolutely OWNS borges" or vice-versa are so embarassing.
>>25192160Youre right
>>25192201Kill yourself
>>25192202Yep. Even named Katje after Borges. A-And he also named Stephen Dodson-Truck after Jimbo Joyce.
>>25192202I probably prefer Borges myself but Pynchon is pretty cool too. His writing style took a little getting used to for me given how “quirky” it often is.
>>25192206why so angry, anon?you not having fun?
>>25192157This post just tells me you’re striving to be the quintessential midwit.
>>25192220Just a suggestion
>Gaddis thread took nearly 3 months to archive>this one might hit bump limit in 1 dayIt's heartwarming to know that people still care about good ol' Pynch
>>25192239You know what they say, Major Marvy sucks NIGGERS!
>>25192239Gaddis is far too obscure and has no popculture footprint to form a basis for memes that people who haven't read him could use to interact with the threads, whereas Pynchon is very memetic and his appearances on The Simpsons made him a known quantity to countless non-readers.The closest thing to a Gaddis meme we have is him insisting he never read Ulysses
>>25191348I unironically agree. Case in point: I always felt Pynchon to be the greatest hack among the so-called greats. And, insecure as I was, I put myself through too much of him. I hope posterity puts him where he belongs —inside a tattered sock oozing with stale piss and sperm.
>>25192312Why are you replying to yourself?
>>25192312>I put myself through too much of him.Why do people do this? Keep reading someone they don't enjoy? I knew I'd like Pynch ever since I first read 49, and I knew I'd love him ever since the first Stencil chapter. Similarly, I knew within the first 50 pages that I won't enjoy Tolstoy, Wilde, Bolano or Camus.>To know the vintage and quality of a wine one need not drink the whole cask. It must be perfectly easy in half an hour to say whether a book is worth anything or worth nothing. Ten minutes are really sufficient, if one has the instinct for form. Who wants to wade through a dull volume? One tastes it, and that is quite enough-- more than enough, I should imagine.-Oscar Wilde
>>25192223You have really shit taste
>>25192012That's because the term is redundant.
>>25191344i like both
>>25192517wat no u dont
>>25192598Sez who
Bolano was like ‘after i stop writing ‘poems for dogs that are romantic’ i will have to go and read a ‘classicist’ such as borges’
