Is he right?
>bare minimum for Immigration testi'm OK with thisbut remove pseuds like Stendhal, Hölderlin, Nietzsche, Conrad or Tolstoy for actual patrish list
>>25203173he is certainly pretentious. who would want to have a conversation with a twat like that?
>>25203173“Pray, now,” with a sort of sociable sorrowfulness, slowly sliding along the rail, “Pray, now, my young friend, what volume have you there? Give me leave,” gently drawing it from him. “Tacitus!” Then opening it at random, read: “In general a black and shameful period lies before me.” “Dear young sir,” touching his arm alarmedly, “don’t read this book. It is poison, moral poison. Even were there truth in Tacitus, such truth would have the operation of falsity, and so still be poison, moral poison. Too well I know this Tacitus. In my college-days he came near souring me into cynicism. Yes, I began to turn down my collar, and go about with a disdainfully joyless expression.”“Sir, sir, I—I—”“Trust me. Now, young friend, perhaps you think that Tacitus, like me, is only melancholy; but he’s more—he’s ugly. A vast difference, young sir, between the melancholy view and the ugly. The one may show the world still beautiful, not so the other. The one may be compatible with benevolence, the other not. The one may deepen insight, the other shallows it. Drop Tacitus. Phrenologically, my young friend, you would seem to have a well-developed head, and large; but cribbed within the ugly view, the Tacitus view, your large brain, like your large ox in the contracted field, will but starve the more. And don’t dream, as some of you students may, that, by taking this same ugly view, the deeper meanings of the deeper books will so alone become revealed to you. Drop Tacitus. His subtlety is falsity, To him, in his double-refined anatomy of human nature, is well applied the Scripture saying—‘There is a subtle man, and the same is deceived.’ Drop Tacitus. Come, now, let me throw the book overboard.”“Sir, I—I—”“Not a word; I know just what is in your mind, and that is just what I am speaking to. Yes, learn from me that, though the sorrows of the world are great, its wickedness—that is, its ugliness—is small. Much cause to pity man, little to distrust him. I myself have known adversity, and know it still. But for that, do I turn cynic? No, no: it is small beer that sours. To my fellow-creatures I owe alleviations. So, whatever I may have undergone, it but deepens my confidence in my kind. Now, then” (winningly), “this book—will you let me drown it for you?”“Really, sir—I—”But you carry Tacitus, that shallow Tacitus. What do I carry? See”—producing a pocket-volume—“Akenside—his ‘Pleasures of Imagination.’ One of these days you will know it. Whatever our lot, we should read serene and cheery books, fitted to inspire love and trust. But Tacitus! I have long been of opinion that these classics are the bane of colleges; for—not to hint of the immorality of Ovid, Horace, Anacreon, and the rest, and the dangerous theology of Eschylus and others—where will one find views so injurious to human nature as in Thucydides, Juvenal, Lucian, but more particularly Tacitus?
At least this darkie has the sense to ape the white man.
>>25203184When I consider that, ever since the revival of learning, these classics have been the favorites of successive generations of students and studious men, I tremble to think of that mass of unsuspected heresy on every vital topic which for centuries must have simmered unsurmised in the heart of Christendom. But Tacitus—he is the most extraordinary example of a heretic; not one iota of confidence in his kind. What a mockery that such an one should be reputed wise, and Thucydides be esteemed the statesman’s manual! But Tacitus—I hate Tacitus; not, though, I trust, with the hate that sins, but a righteous hate. Without confidence himself, Tacitus destroys it in all his readers. Destroys confidence, paternal confidence, of which God knows that there is in this world none to spare. For, comparatively inexperienced as you are, my dear young friend, did you never observe how little, very little, confidence, there is? I mean between man and man—more particularly between stranger and stranger. In a sad world it is the saddest fact. Confidence! I have sometimes almost thought that confidence is fled; that confidence is the New Astrea—emigrated—vanished—gone.”
>almost no one can hold a conversation>almost no one has read Dante, Goethe, Homer, Tolstoy, Aristotle, Pushkin, Blake, Lermontov, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Cellini, Thucydides, Tacitus, Montaigne, Virgil, Shakespeare, Stendhal, Cellini (again?), Machiavelli, Melville, Milton, Conrad, Rimbaud and Holderlin.Checks out. On a related note, want to but some elephant repellent?
no
>>25203184What a lame fag Melville really was, his writing was very good ultimately. But inserting his own strange sad opinions on the classics into his writing is retarded. Did he think that everything one reads is done with a complete naivety of mind and spirit, that you read everything openly and take it all on board without discernment? You can read Juvenal for example purely for the entertainment of his derisive, cynical, tone and how with such fury he rages against those he despises. You don't immediately become like Juvenal and start miserably writing satires of your friends, colleagues and politicians. The same goes for Tacitus, Thucydides and the like, their worldviews are enlightening and interesting in their diversity, and the fact that we have so much of their work is a wonderful thing, and it should be read by all.
>>25203197Anon... Confidence-Man is a satire, and the person talking here is quite possible the devil.
>>25203199I Googled 'Melville dislike of Classics' and it told me he saw classical education as corrupting. I may have been led astray by Google AI overview... I'll see myself out.
Would reading these actually make me able to hold a conversation?
>>25203173>Is he right?Yeah, I also don't want to talk to people.
>>25203173I will never read Pushkin or Lermontov (lol who?)Also, this retard wrote Cellini twice. He also mens the autobiography or what? hes not really famous as a writer lol
>>25203173Hahaha this fucking pseud got filtered by Kant, or else he would have certainly mentioned him before Sloppenhauer or Neetch. Hey bud stick to discussing the sexploits of some italian goldsmith with your gay friends, you don't meet the minimum for holding a conversation with me.
>>25203173>Nietzsche>No WagnerWhy would one read the apprentice instead of the master?
>>25203197>>25203199>>25203247The Confidence Man was written in response to Moby Dick getting completely shredded by the criticals as blasphemous and immoral>>25203247Melville only had schooling enough to learn how to read the Bible. Other than that he was completely self-taught, his wide travels in Europe and elsewhere that inform his writing came from working on ships
>>25203173Most of the men on that list wouldn’t even be able to hold a conversation as they didn’t have knowledge of the others that came after them. Ex, Homer knew of none of the other ones
cellini created cool salt shakers, how am i supposed to read thatalso who tf is holderlin
>>25203683You mean like the chastity cage?
>>25203337fucking gottem. mentioning cellini twice is based and cellini-approved though. if you read the autobiography and all you got were "sexploits" then it is you who have been filtered
I hate twitter pseuds
Holderlin is a meme poet.
>>25203811lil nigga saw some shit you'd never even see in your dreams. lower your tone.
>>25203173in the original languages, or is he a translation monkey?
>>25204056I went through it just now and it’s six different languages but more like eight if you’re counting dialects.
>>25203173>No Plato
>>25203173You could get away with>David Hume's essay on taste>Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship>The Henriad (including Richard II)>Three big novels (Flaubert, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, etc.)
>>25203683The inventor of German Idealism.
>>25203173no, none of those, they are all irrelevant except aristotle machiavelli milton* buckley - God and man at yale* paul elmer more - aristocracy and justice* oliver - americas decline* tyndale - response to more
>>25203173Not trying to flex my Russian knowledge here but I have no idea why you would find Pushkin impressive if you didn't speak Russian.
>>25203181>Nietzsche>Tolstoy>pseudsshut up faggot
let me guess he has read exactly one book of each author just so he can say he has read them, and if you really tried to engage with him about certain lesser known books or overarching things happening in several and not just one book of these, he would quickly change the subject because he actually couldnt care less about any substance and just wants to boast and not discuss.I just shut up now when i met people who claim to read much or love certain authors, because the above happens everytime
>>25204528Is he mostly impressive for his wordplay or something? How does Tolstoy read in Russian?
I would add Ernest Cline, Andy Weir, J.K. Rowling, John Grisham, James Patterson, C.M. Nascosta, Colleen Hoover, Stephen King, Angie Thomas, Rupi Kaur, Ayn Rand, Stephanie Meyer, Dan Brown, Tyra Banks, John Green, E.L. James, Michael Gira, N.K. Jemisin and Alexandre Dumas.
>>25207345>DumasAhhhh I know why he’s there. In which case, where’s Dosto?
What the fuck is there to discuss with these authors? Why does literature, of all artistic mediums, require that the adherents go back over a thousand years and indulge in the works of the past? Do people who watch movies need to watch every black and white silent film to talk about modern films? Do people who listen to music have to listen to every single americana folk aritist and grandstand band before they're allowed to move onto the 50s?Do you retards even consider the implications here? Imagine this in a few hundred years, do you know enough pop culture references do hold a conversation? Let's be real, do you even understand any pop culture references from 40 years ago? This shit is constantly changing, this elitist building of a background for literature is creating a mountain of 'background text' that retarded elitists sit behind, many of whom have probably not even read the works themselves and instead annotated summaries
>>25207983stick to ya lil bro no need to make your brain hurt
>me before that last page of Holderlin Baa baa baaa fuuppunmuppuu sssspoo ttttick rrriiiccck>Me after Hello. Beautiful weather today, isn't it?
>>25208006Here pal, make sure you *snicker* read all these works *laughs* we'll totally let you in our cool club afterwards
>>25203181>patrishGet the fuck out of my country>>25203192Fpbp
>>25203173Holding a conversation about what? This sounds an awful lot like a midwit who's just smart enough to let other people do his thinking for him and doesn't know how to interact with people who want to have real human conversations rather than regurgitating literature at each other. In what way, precisely, does having read Machiavelli improve one's ability to hold a conversation?
>>25203173Aristotle - I've read him, but he's useless. (I found books *about* Aristotle of more value, than reading that fucker himself: cf. for example ch 2 of "Biological classification. A philosophical introduction (2016)")Homer - I forced myself through 10 volumes of Iliad and several volumes of Odyssey. I won't say it was a complete waste of time, but I fail to see the appeal.Thucydides - he's okay. Way too verbose, though, could've trimmed it by half without any substantial loss.Nietzsche - he's great, no contention from me.Machiavelli - overrated.Virgil - I forced myself through volume 1, coz I was learning Latin once and he has a latin-narrated audiobook on youtube. Overall, mediocre.Shakespeare - Richard III, Julius Caesar, Timon of Athens, Macbeth are good. Everything else fucking sucks.Conrad - I've read 'The Heart of Darkness'. The prose is great. His overall intent to portray some primordeal savage evil, however, didn't hit the mark.Milton - the 1st volume is great. The rest is jaw-droppingly boring and unreadable.Melville - the Ahab parts are metal, but the pretentious bugger includes shitton of filler chapters ('On Cetology', my ass)Montaigne - a bunch of windy blabbering on absolutely everything, surmounting to nothing substantial.Tolstoy, Pushkin, Lermontov - utter garbage.Goethe - I've read Faust. Can't understand why the hell it is supposed to be impressive.The rest I have not even touched.
>>25208098I haven't read Faust but I think you need to read Goethe in German to appreciate him
>>25208098>unable to enjoy great literature or see the value of a real philosopher>loves NietzscheChecks out
>>25203192Sad, isn't it?4chan used to pride itself on being the first person in a meme human centipede, now it's like the second or third person licking fecal remnants and pretending it's just as well.
>>25208098>overall intent to portray some primordeal savage evilReally poor reading comprehension.
>>25208133We had a good run for a place that started off as a collection of 10 bux chumps.
>>25203173no
Well /lit/? Are you culturally literate enough to fetch coffee for your betters?
What's that /lit/? You don't know who Diana Vreeland is? I mean really, do you even consider yourself a socialite cosmopolitan? Listen, this might just be a very well connected list consisting of a certain 2% of the population who may or may not have had family connections before their careers, but these people are the cutting edge of culture and if you can't tell me who Jean Seberg was you're basically a fucking philistine and can barely hold a conversation.
>>25208267i know who a fair chunk of these people are. mostly authors, contemporary artists, fashion designers and a few architects.
>>25208279Hell yeah I know who Stonewall Jackson was!
>>25208287Wow you're right man I should really study up on these cultural icons when I don't recognize them here's one now>Andrew Shue>Andrew Shue (born February 20, 1967) is an American actor, known for his role as Billy Campbell on the television series Melrose Place (1992–1999). Shue played soccer professionally for several years. He co-founded and served on the board of directors of the global non-profit organization DoSomething,[1] and co-founded the social networking website CafeMom. >Shue was born in Wilmington, Delaware. His mother, Anne Brewster (née Wells, later Palmer; born 1938), is a bank executive who was the vice president of the private division of the Chemical Bank Corporation. His father, James William Shue (born 1936 – died May 24, 2013), was a lawyer and real estate developer who was the president of the International Food and Beverage Corporation and was active in Republican politics, having once unsuccessfully run for the U.S. Congress in New Jersey.[2][3] wow, impressive! I can't wait to learn more about his astonishing contributions to modern culture!
>>25208279>You don't know who Diana Vreeland is? watched a documentary about her actually
>>25208296>Born Diana Dalziel in Paris in 1903, she lived at 5 avenue du Bois-de-Boulogne (known as Avenue Foch post-World War I). Vreeland was the eldest daughter of an American socialite mother, Emily Key Hoffman, and a British stockbroker[6] father, Frederick Young Dalziel. Hoffman was a descendant of George Washington's brother, as well as a cousin of Francis Scott Key. She was also a distant cousin of writer and socialite Pauline de Rothschild (née Potter).this list is a bunch of rich, connected people pretending their art is good. Some of it is, some of it is literally this bullshit nepotism bundled and hailed as cultural icons because of the power behind it
>>25208291alright then ill fall for >ellis>freud (lucian + signmund)>gagosnian>gaultier>gehry>godard>holzer>kahn>kawakubo>kiefer>lagerfield>corbusier>leibovitz (annie)>mapplethorpe>nabakov>o'hara>plath>pound>sherman>smith>twombly>vreeland>waters>wembersall these people are very famous and still have left sizable impacts within their respective fields. excuse me for not recognizing ones like shue
>>25208327+>lynch
>>25208024>>25208267>>25208279>no Carnegie Mellon (single highhandedly responsible for half of these niggas being able to read if they were from small town US)>no Grateful Dead/Jerry Garcia>Kesey and no Kerouac>Some are an Author's most famous work instead of the Author themselves>44 - the pager code for call me back? >Paris Texasthis list is honestly out of touch even for it's time, like a big 'please pay attention to us we're very serious and we take eachother seriously' meanwhile off in the distance real culture is being created
>>25203173bare minimum for holding deez nuts
>>25208327I recognize even more than that but that doesn't mean shit, simply recognizing people and popular/successful things that likely have no bearing on your normal life is absurd. >What, you haven't gone and read every single religious text related to Christianity? How can you even have an opinion?my point here is that the list is mainly a bunch of nepo babies throwing their hat in with some artists who have made it big recently and previously and pretending they are on the same level as themIt's trying to create exclusivity and elitism by association, as if Shue is on the same level as Kesey. Just like Vreeland's mom being a socialite cosmopolitan before she was. What the fuck does that even mean? You spend money to wear obscure fashions and hang out in areas with other wealthy people spending your money on experiences, reporters report on how much of a good time you're having? This is all just bullshit gatekeeping, really. It's the modern art money laundering scam, if me and my buddy keep saying this art is worth something then eventually I can take out loans against this art.>shue, down at the bank trying to get a loan> Look man, my extensive contributions to the arts are one of the requirements to work at vogue!
>>25208373art and design is a genuine interest of mine. these arent just names that 'ring a bell' to mefrom what i can gather from the third pic the list was created for screening vogue applicants, no? probably looking for someone who knows as about the glittery world industry their entering. idk why it shocks you they wanted applicants who alo knew about the kardashians of their time
>>25208392What's the modern list look like? Pewdiepie? I can haz chezburger? Rick Roll? Lacie/Scott Peterson? Oj Simpson? Kony 2012? Notch? Nah, it's going to be a bunch of people who have a few popular well known works and who still contribute, you know why? Because they're gatekeeping, because they want to pretend the artists they put up next to 'Minecraft' are on the same level of popularity, who all happen to be managed by companies who also have stake in the magazine. They're putting the cart before the horse (creating these artists) and after a while all you see as the normie media consumer is the horse pulling the cart (wow these must be organic artists)
If the only reason you talk to people is to show off your intellect then you've missed the point of socializing. If you measure OP in empathetic terms, he's an insufferable jackass. If you measure OP in sociopathic terms, he's a fool for not cultivating people into useful friends with superficial charm. I personally don't like having conversations, I find people tedious and exhausting to deal with. But I still make an effort to be affable, approachable, and charming in conversation. I could be like OP, and arrogantly demand nobody waste my time with inane prattle, and only talk to me if they have something interesting to say, but such attitudes only serve to drive away anyone who would want to talk to you which makes developing useful relationships more difficult. Nobody really owes you anything, the world doesn't care if you live or die. A good supporting family is circumstance you can't control, the family you're born with is the family you've got for better or worse. But you get to choose your friends, and you can continue to make new friends your entire life, continually expanding your network. Friends are ins to exclusive places. Friends are guaranteed interviews for coveted jobs. Friends are unofficial discounts and special deals. Friends are a place to sleep and get a meal for free when you're traveling. Friends are interest free loans. Friends are unpaid menial labor. Friends are expert advice on retainer with no fee. Friends will join a fight on your side without asking why. All it costs is not being rude and laughing at dumb jokes.
>>25208404theres a symbiotic relationship between artists + galleries, musicians + production companies, designers and magazines. they make eacother money, exchange content and promotion. yes there are industry plants, but there are plenty of genuine creatives. why do i get the impression you think the whole thing is some sort of evil conspiracy?
>>25208426source: I'm in on it
Then you are never going to talk to anyone interesting. Besides, you are a narcissistic dick who only wants to listen to yourself, so....no loss.
>>25203683Cellini wrote an autobiography.
Most of that is good, but really not that important. He somehow includes Lermontov and Cellini, but misses Hobbes and Hume. I also have no intention of reading Anna Karenina or War and Peace, because I have only a finite number of years to live and having read his short stories, I don't think I'll get that much out of them. I don't want to read a 1000 page manifesto of anarcho-christo-pacificism or whatever. I'll probably read Ivan Ilyich at some point.
>>25208098You should really go back
