Ἔαρος νέον ἱσταμένοιο edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>25151591>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
oxytone is definitely kill I guess
why did Enlightenment larpers not draw the Veil on Greeks? Did they not know women were brutally repressed?
>>25206787Christian it is
>>25207082>18Et ipse est caput corporis Ecclesiæ, qui est principium, primogenitus ex mortuis: ut sit in omnibus ipse primatum tenens: >19quia in ipso complacuit, omnem plenitudinem inhabitare: >20et per eum reconciliare omnia in ipsum, pacificans per sanguinem crucis ejus, sive quæ in terris, sive quæ in cælis sunt. >21Et vos cum essetis aliquando alienati, et inimici sensu in operibus malis: >22nunc autem reconciliavit in corpore carnis ejus per mortem, exhibere vos sanctos, et immaculatos, et irreprehensibiles coram ipso: >23si tamen permanetis in fide fundati, et stabiles, et immobiles a spe Evangelii, quod audistis, quod prædicatum est in universa creatura, quæ sub cælo est, cujus factus sum ego Paulus minister. Huge improvement in reading speed lately in unfamiliar epistles
underrated channel
>>25206787This artwork should've been two men, not women.These are musical instruments of men, of male gods.Women are a farce from the plebs.
>>25207335cope and seethe
>>25207034Because they drew artistic vase representations. Not real life.
>>25206790κλῆρον πάλλω
>>25208322>διττοὶοἴμοι >>25206790
>>25207190I'll raise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKwX2IAPtxg
How similar is Roman Empire Latin to the medieval and Rennaisance Latin?
>>25208326ἀνέγνωκα γοῦν διὰ τὼ διττὼ κεκληρομένω ἀριθμὼ φ λόγους τοῦ Αἰσώπου καὶ, βραχέων μὲν ὄντων τῶν μύθων καθ' ἕκαστον, ζ ἀνέγνωκα μύθους, τουτουσί·Ἄνθρωποι καὶ ΖεὺςΓυνὴ καὶ ἀνὴρ μέθυσοςΖεὺς καὶ ἄνθρωποιΖεὺς καὶ ἈπόλλωνΖεὺς καὶ Προμηθεὺς καὶ Ἀθηνᾶ καὶ ΜῶμοςΖεὺς κριτήςΠόλεμος καὶ Ὕβριςἐπὶ πᾶσιν ἐχάρην ἀλλὰ φιλτάτω φαίην ἄν εἶναι Δία κρίτην Πόλεμον τε καὶ Ὕβριν, ὧν τὼ παροιμία τουτωσί·· οὐ χρὴ θαυμάζειν διὰ τοὺς ἀδίκους καὶ πονηροὺς ὅτι τάχιον οὐκ ἀπολαμβάνουσιν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἀδικιῶν αὐτῶν· ἔνθα ἂν προέλθῃ ὕβρις ἢ ἐν πόλει ἢ ἐν ἔθνεσι, πόλεμος καὶ μάχαι εὐθὺς μετ’ αὐτὴν ἀκολουθεῖ
>>25208403you should see it more as two distributions with heavy overlap, depending on the author, some recent authors wrote with prose easily mistakable for classical in terms of style and wording, others a more modern style, overall though it shouldn't give you troubles, the constructions more typical of medieval Latin are still largely understandable coming from classic, even the orthographic differences aren't that big of a deal(e instead of ae, ci instead of ti, some y appearing where i should be, etc...)
>>25208403Pretty similar. Same language and all. More learned authors wrote more classical-style, but even many “unlearned” authors still write in a style familiar to St. Jerome’s idiom in the vulgate because the text was so influential on anyone who knew latin in the middle ages, and St. Jerome was a highly trained grammarian and classicist so his work did a lot to fossilize Latin into a still recognizably classical mold.I can’t imagine what medieval latin would have ended up like if he hadn’t existed and all medievals had as a shared text were vetus latina texts.
>>25207335IIRC early in Rome they would've said the opposite, a proper vir ought to have left these activities to women and children, keep his gravitas
Tota quaedam 'civilizatio' moritura est hac nocte, nec unquam renascetur. Quod nolo ut eveniat, nihilominus eventurum esse videtur. Nunc autem, omnino mutato imperio et novis prudentioribus minusque fanaticis mentibus regnantibus, fortasse aliquid mirabile eveniet. QVIS PRO CERTO SCIAT? Inveniemus hac nocte, praestantissimum eventum in tota longa atque difficili historia humani generis. XLVII enim anni rapinae corruptionis mortisque denique finientur. Benedicat Deus magnum populum Persiae.
>>25208370I knew you were going to post this one. I've been exposed to some post-classical kino through him.
Why is oxytone dead ? It just has ancient greek texts. These are thousand years old and are not protected by copyrights.
>mfw on the the poetry chapter of LLPSIYeah...I'm not going to bother trying to understand the excerpts.
>>25209442nihil umquam evenit
>>25209544>I've been exposed to some post-classical kino through him.Yeah the man has good taste
>>25209442rursus quattuordecem dies, domine?
>>25209995They're definitely harder than the main text of the chapter, but they're still not all that hard. See what sense you can make of them, and don't feel bad if you're not able to understand them perfectly. I think at least one the poems is mean-spirited, but the Catullus one about inviting his friend for dinner is funny.Of course, if you're just saying that because you're impatient to move on to the final (and best) chapter in the book, I totally understand.
Where do you even buy physical copies of Old Norse texts
>>25211772Honestly just start having them printed yourself. I do this since its so hard to find untranslated unmodernized copies of old stuff that isn't covered in a 101 college course. I also do this because modern introductions and glosses are so fucking obnoxious too. I'd rather have two books,one a source text and the other a dictionary/gloss than deal with flipping back and forth or having 1/16th of my page be the source text and the rest is all gloss and footnotes.
quisnam gentium quartum canalem perculit? quinam hercle designati saluti servandae? o tempora o mores, ne quidem imagunculam mittere daturen mente concipitote imaginem ranulae iracundae
>>25211772Íslenzk fornritUnfortunately most Old Norse texts are only printed in Iceland so they're quite expensive
so...Jesus is ὁ Λόγος, the Word of God. As we see in the Gospel of Matthew, when He was born, "magi" came to visit Him bringing presents. And in 2 Kings 3:12 (REGNORUM IV), 3 kings go visit Elisha, who is described as the "word of the Lord".LXX: ῥῆμα κυρίουVULGATE: sermo Dominithoughts?? (and prayers
>>25212516it says the word of god is with him, not «is» him, grammatically speaking, it's how both ancient Greek and Latin often showed possessive lit. X is to Ybut as far as interpreting ῥῆμα here I'd call it a religious matter more than linguistic as it relates to how it was understood among jews in the OT
>>25212516>Turning now from the Hindu teaching to the more familiar field of the Bible, we find ample evidence therein that Moses and the priests of Israel knew about the Great Life-Breath. Egypt, of course, was the great source of their knowledge, as the Bible tells us. "And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and deeds. " (Acts, 7:22). "Words", in Greek, is Logoi, and this is a technical term referring to the power of sound-forms, in the use of which the Egyptians excelled. The Logoi are the same as the mantra of the Hindus. No great penetration is required to read between the lines of many Old Testament passages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8B_BLtpxQM
changed a couple based on the digits from the past threads to keep it fresherComposition challenge:write a 50 words(minimum) paragraph, roll last digit for theme:0 - talk about a hobby you have1 - describe a country of choice2 - describe one of your favorite books' theme3 - go on wikipedia, click on random article and describe what it is about4 - comment on a recent political event5 - describe a trip you took or would like to take6 - talk about the plot of a movie you like7 - write about one of your favorite historical figures8 - describe one of your favorite meals/dishes9 - whatever you wantdubs - 100 words, trips - 150 words, and so on...
>>25209995poetry makes it worth it
Why am I so uninterested in Shakespeare and company and Chaucer and company but some anonymous guy writing in anglo saxon is so captivatingI wonder what my brain is picking up on there. Maybe I'm just stupid
Did Hesiod write in the same greek as Homer or what
>>25214881yes I can't even recall any obvious stylistic differences tbqh
>>25213298aleam iacio
>>25215370bene, prater linguas discendas quod liquet quibus hoc in filo tempus terunt, maximae parti saltem cum sane adsint aliquando qui non studio liberali sed muneris causa linguas antiquas didicerunt, pauca dicam de palestra, nam, quamquam vero opus sit cuivis operulam dare ne corpus languescat annis, magna parte studium est quod licet anglice hobby vocari: cura corporis exercitationibus saluti profecto sed bonae menti quoque commodo est. Ipse ter in hebdomada paucas horas fere ullis machinis adhibitis sed maxima parte pondere corporis ipsius exerceo lacertos, brachia, humeros, pectus, crura ac non praetereo cursus; conor quoque ne incommoda alimenta praeter modum edam sed non magni facio sicut qui magnopere colunt hoc studium et aluntur peculiaribus alimentis
οὐ γὰρ ἀσφαλὲςπεραιτέρω τὸ κάλλος ἢ μέσον λαβεῖν-it is unsafeto possess beauty exceeding
quomodo possum seducere Romanas?nescio quando me percusserit Cupido sed uror amices, uror. quantae habendae sunt mihi musculae ut ranas attraham Romanas
rogo et posco benivolentes
Learning latin, not as easy as I thought, if you wanna understand the logical machinery behind the sentence as well.
>>25216025Familia Romana + Wheelock's. You'll get the benefits of both sides.
>>25215997sciscitas rem carminibus Sibyllinis arcaniorem amice
>>25216025Like gender and number, especially with adjectives, and also subject and object usually correspond to each other even across many sentences, its not that hard, try going to wiktionary it shows all of the forms of every word you look up and after you see enough of them maybe even doing that for only 40 different words you can sort of get the picture of how they come together, of course when you memorize a word you have to memorize the principal parts, theyre listed in almost any good dictionary entry, along with the gender, and then you know everything, you can come back to the principal parts and gender even if you just only know the word and they stick much easier in memory after you know the word, but you should probably learn them all at once anyways
>>25216025when i say 40 words its because I use memory palaces but its not that different honestly
>>25216414gender, case, and number I mean
πολλοὶ μαθηταὶ κρείττονες διδασκάλων-many pupils are better than their teachersMenander
>>25216863being able to hear the rhythm makes it so much better
>>25216863this gives me I'm 12 and I just btfo'd my teacher with a pedantic correction. know your place lil bro.but i get it. a good teacher wants to be mogged otherwise to whom will you pass on the torch
>>25209442> PersiaePersia is not continuous/ interchangeable with Iran. Iran is basically the Medes population taking over and enforcing a pagan Arab Semitic cult.
>Third declension nouns
>>25218563Latin or Greek?Latin's aren't so bad, Greek's though....
>>25216863老而好學,如炳燭之明。炳燭之明,孰與昧行乎?to be old and like to study, it is like the brightness of a candle. How can the brightness of a candle compare to moving in darkness?
>>25214340Early modern English just isn’t your thing, that’s perfectly fine, aesthetically old English looks nicer too. I like (absolutely love) Milton for how he sort of “latinised” modern English with his syntax though.
>>25218563You get used to those after a while. The most annoying part however is when the declension of the noun and adjective don't match
Will learning Old English help me with Middle English?
>>25217541at some point "Persa" became basically a generic term for anyone from the region
Some people in this thread in the past have pointed out that Anki decks of isolated words are poor practice compared to Anki decks of words in the context of phrases or sentences. Are there any resources for what the widely accepted best practices for language learning are?
>>25221063Stephen Krashen is the GOAT (at least for weebs) and the general advice is to do single words in the beginning to build a base, usually done on the most commonly used words, whether the top 200 up to 1000. Now that you do have a base, sentences.
I'm too retarded to learn latin>but but kids used to learn latin in 10 ad just fineI'm like ACTUALLY retarded. think of someone with an 80 iq, I am ACTUALLY retarded. I don't understand some things. I read a text and I don't have the UNDERSTANDING, like the whole mental stuff of a textI am such a retarded fucking loser I suck at everything even at this
>>25221096ngmi with that defeatist attitude. turn the pain of not understanding into fuel to keep pushing. or you can bitch.
>>25221111but I AM a retard though
>>25221114tardus sapiens
>>25221096Well what languages have you learned as an adult?What approach are you using to learn Latin?
>>25221117sapiens tardus sounds better
>>25221118none, I can speak my L1 and L2 and English is my L2 but I learned that basically when I was a childI don't know I guess I try to read a lot and listen to audio recordings and do all the exercises for familia romana but I feel like I don't understand everything
>>25221124>I feel like I don't understand everythingyou have to get comfortable with that. that's part of the process of language learning or learning in general. believing otherwise leads to frustration and ultimately to ragequitting.
>>25221125I wouldn't ragequit just silently give upquit
>>25221129well well until that day, drop your questions here
Are there any classical or medieval latin translations of greeks Yes I am too lazy to learn greek. I barely manage Latin
>>25221139what do you like? there is quite a bit of Aristotle in medieval Latin. During and after the Renaissance a ton of literary and philosophical texts were also translated.
Is hope reciting Vergil jn in Latin is worth the fuss
>ὣς ἐφάμην· ὃ δέ μ’ οὐδὲν ἀμείβετο, βῆ δὲ μετ’ ἄλλας>ψυχὰς εἰς Ἔρεβος νεκύων κατατεθνηώτων.>ἔνθά χ’ ὅμως προσέφη κεχολωμένος, ἤ κεν ἐγὼ τόν·>ἀλλά μοι ἤθελε θυμὸς ἐνὶ στήθεσσι φίλοισιν>τῶν ἄλλων ψυχὰς ἰδέειν κατατεθνηώτων.(Odyssey book XI)>ἔνθά χ’ ὅμως προσέφη κεχολωμένος, ἤ κεν ἐγὼ τόνI checked Butler's translation on English Wikisource just to be sure, and he translated it as>I should have made him talk to me in spite of his being so angry, or I should have gone on talking to himbut then he has a note for this line>"Is the writer a man or a woman?"wat??
The fluttering his hands like a butterfly and Astylus' look of disgust at the end really sell this scene for me.
salve clgi need a book recommendation for grammar and syntax for atiic greekpreferably modern
>>25222911intro or reference? the FAQ has various recs, more grammar oriented as well if that's your thingSmyth's reference grammar is still pretty goated
>>25223017
>>25223019>intro or reference?honestly both? i want to pick up ancient greek again for fun, i am european and did a classical high school, but unfortunately i am realising that i forgot most of it, from the language to the mythologyalso the books i used back then are pretty outdated by now i am sure
>>25223028I used Athenaze(Italian version, this is a quirk about this popular textbook, the Italian version has a lot more text than the original English so many including non Italians used it for extensive beginner reading) starting from nothing not even high school exposure and I can say I enjoyed it, the MEGA in OP has a bunch of textbooks including Athenaze so you can pick and choose, or if you prefer paper at least get a sample. I can't speak from direct experience for more traditional grammar based introductory textbooks
there's also Logos, it's the newest in the reading heavy approach textbooks, I heard good things about it, you could use it in conjunction with Athenaze as well
>>25223035>>25223048ill be sure to check those out, although my idea was to see what i remember in terms of grammar/syntax/vocabulary and build upon thatthe way we were taught back then was we did a lot of grammar syntax and then straight actual text, no textbooks
>>25223055yeah I heard about the reputation of the traditional high school methodI'd say though the biggest hurdle naturally tends to be lexicon, so if you are doing this for the sake of reaching reading proficiency, even if the grammar/syntax comes back quickly, you're gonna need to get back to speed on lexicon and reading is essential
>>25223019As others have said, TOWARDS ATHENS (ΑΘΗΝΑΖΕ). Don't get bogged down in trying to find alternatives. Stick at least through Book I until you start going off the map.
The translator for the latest edition of the Gallic War Loeb wants to fuck Caesar
>>25224292Cracks me up that he admires the man but has to add the qualifier that he was a meanie. Where'd your balls go?
>>25224322>hecheck filename, it's a woman
>>25224354Qeqeqeq looks like I was right
>>25224292>What would you want people to understand about this other person?>"I blah blah blah. I blah blah, I blah blah blah."Woman moment
>>25221139my Greek-Latin Plato from Didot's apparently is largely still based on the original translation of Ficino with only small adjustments, just to name an important version of Plato's works in Latin
βαμπ
>>25213298roll
>>25227242τῶν ἐμοὶ φιλτάτων πρέπει μοι πιφαύσκειν τι περὶ τοῦ μαγικὸν παῖδα διηγουμένου βιβλίου μάλα τοι κλεινοῦ παρὰ τοῖς ὁμήλιξίν μου, τότε γὰρ καὶ τοῖς μὴ πάνυ σπουδάζουσιν τὰ βιβλία παισὶ τούτου τὸ κλέος πανταχοῦ διεσκεδάσθη, χὑμεῖς εἰκότως γ' ἢ ἀνεγνώκατ' αὐτὸ ἢ περὶ αὐτοῦ ἔγνωτεκατὰ τὸν ἐν αὐτῷ μῦθον ἦν παῖς δίαιταιν ἔχων πανταχῶς δημόσιον ἐν τῇ νῦν Ἀγγλίᾳ ξυνοικῶν τηθίδι καὶ τῷ ἀνδρὶ αὐτῆς, τὼ μὲν χαλεπὼ ἦτον, ἀλλ' οὐδὲν παράτροπον· μειράκιον δὲ γενόμενον ἀνεῦρέν σε μὴ παῖδα πεφυκέναι ὠς τοὺς ἄλλους ἀλλὰ ἐκ μαγικοῖν τοκέοιν γεγονέναι καὶ ἐν τοῖς μαγικοῖς ἀνθρώποις μάλιστα ἔνδηλον εἶναι διὰ τὸ μοχθηρὸν μέν, ὄβριμον δὲ μάγον πῃ διεφθαρκέναι βρέφος ἔτ' ὄνπομποῦ αὐτῷ ἀπεσταλμένου ἄλλους μαγικοὺς παῖδας ηὗρεν καὶ καινοὺς τόπους ἐν οἷς ἦν τὴν μαγικὴν τέχνην τελείαν καθιστάναι
ecce auxilio adsum filo defesso
>>25221139dubs and we get Livius Andronicus' Odusia in the charred scrolls of Pompeii
Is Xenophon anabasis the best choice to read to get into attic (or if you wanna read something easier due to time problems) ?
>>25231780pretty well earned reputation I'd say, both the author, clear in his writing, but also the specific choice with a straightforward theme overallit's still kinda long though
>>25231815thanks mate, Im also considering HellenicaAlso, what the fuck is going on with Oxytone? Where do you guys get your original texts now? I like to print them so I can write on them easily,
>>25231817seems gone, idk friendScaife https://scaife.perseus.org/library/ has some hiccups but seems to still work fineworst case I check on wikisource, though if I plan on reading some author specifically I just look for an edition with his works either in the OP's MEGA or Anna's archive
>>25231828https://www.hs-augsburg.de/~harsch/graeca/Auctores/g_alpha.htmlfound this as well, seems decent.
>>25231836actually it seems to be missing a lot of stuff. I got lucky with Hellenica.>>25231828>wikisourceis there a genelar link for that ? where you can search the author?
>>25231836good catch>>25231857https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/Κύρια_Σελίδα usually if you search the author even without the Συγγραφέας: prefix you should be able to find it, you need a Greek keyboard layout though ofc
>>25207082rollin'
filum moribundum
>>25232197quarto canale moriente etiam apud /lit/ difficilius videtur generale servare cuius argumentum paucis refert; idem fit /lang/, ne quidem ibi linguas hodiernas discentibus parcitur inopia nuntiorum
>>25207082Roll
What was your hardest grammar or syntax thing you have encountered in ancient greek?
>>25234072when I compose i still have to periodically check hypothetical periods in indirect discourse, it's been many years and I still can't hammer it in my head, I read it fine, but composing it still filters me
>>25232703St. Ambrose: On the Mysteries>Tractatibus, quos ante de moribus Sanctus habuerat, subjecturum se mysteriorum expositionem spondet. Deinde cur ea non prius patefecerit, declarato, mysticam aggreditur apertionem, quam a Christo ipso olim celebratam demonstrat.>De moralibus quotidianum sermonem habuimus, cum vel Patriarcharum gesta, vel Proverbiorum legerentur praecepta; ut his informati atque instituti assuesceretis majorum ingredi vias, eorumque iter carpere, ac divinis obedire oraculis: quo renovati per baptismum, ejus vitae usum teneretis, quae ablutos deceret.>Nunc de mysteriis dicere tempus admonet, atque ipsam sacramentorum rationem edere: quam ante baptismum si putassemus insinuandam nondum initiatis, prodidisse potius quam edidisse aestimaremur. Deinde quod inopinantibus melius se ipsa lux mysteriorum infuderit, quam si eam sermo aliquis praecucurrisset.Translation: Within these sermons, which the Saint held before regarding proper living, he promises that an explanation of the mysteries is to be laid forth. Why he did not reveal these matters first, it shall be declared, upon which he discloses the mystical unveiling, which he demonstrates had once been proclaimed by Christ himself.1. We held a daily sermon regarding proper living, when they were reading from either the conduct of the Patriarchs or from the precepts of the Proverbs; in order that you, being informed and instructed by these, might be accustomed to enter upon the path of the elders, and take up their course, and be obedient to these divine sayings: in which being renewed through baptism, you might hold an exercising of this life which properly adorns such a cleansing.2. The present time now reminds us to speak regarding the mysteries, and to provide the reason itself for the sacraments: since we thought that if it was to be touched upon before baptism while you were not yet initiated, we would be judged to have betrayed rather than conveyed them. Whereupon the light of the mystery pours itself more easily on those unaware, than if some sermon comes and precedes it.
>>25234422bretty gud, bit confused about your choice of tense for the ablative absolute(?) declarato, I'd rather say something like "after explaining..." or "having explained..."
>>25234072legere graeculos nefas est
>>25235917Deus meus, tu est bene
>>25206790ἄλλο τι
>>25236160>τοῦτο μὲν δὴ ὀρθῶς ἂν λέγοις͵ ὦ Ἐρατόσθενες· ἐκεῖνα δ᾽ οὐκ ὀρθῶς͵ ἀφαιρούμενος αὐτὸν τὴν τοσαύτην πολυμάθειαν καὶ τὴν ποιητικὴν γραώδη μυθολογίαν ἀποφαίνων....got confused here about the seemingly unusual double accusative construction for ἀφαιρεῖσθαιI like the mention of Odysseus as prime example of a man skilled in everything>οὗτος δ᾽ ὁ πτολίπορθος ἀεὶ λεγόμενος καὶ τὸ Ἴλιον ἑλὼν βουλῆι καὶ μύθοισι καὶ ἠπεροπηίδι τέχνηι· τούτου γ᾽ ἑσπομένοιο καὶ ἐκ πυρὸς αἰθομένοιο ἄμφω νοστήσαιμεν͵ φησὶν ὁ Διομήδης
>>25236160Τῇδε τῇ νυκτί. Σέ!
new Iliad's proemium recitation droppedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX4yuMN6pPI
Bump!
>>25236772euge Homeros denuo spirat
any useful sources for law students regarding Latin?
>>25238452https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/justinian.htmlthe classic
>>25227368was rereading this and I realized I used σέ like Latin 'se' instead of ἑαυτόν, it keeps happening kek, not the first time
>>25206787oh here it is. remember to spam "latin" in there somewhere.
>>25207190Translation is a trap. Translation leads to argumentation, that fortifies what no actual reader would have gotten out of a text.
There are way too few classical language learners out there. It's dreadful. rn I'm working towards memorizing some paradigms. doesn't even matter which language lol. Paradigms are pretty much paradigms. It's hard.
>>25239341when 4chan was hacked and went down for a while I tried the classical languages discord, it seemed somewhat active but at the same time I just don't like the platform at all, maybe I'm just an unc too used to imageboards, idk
>>25239092that's the problem with knowing multiple languagesthey get all mixed up and you end up speaking in tonguesbut that's also the benefit
How do you manage to keep going with greek despite it being really difficult?
>>25240648You learn to enjoy the pain because there's treasure on the other end.
>>25236772>only 20 lines
I want to learn classical chinese but the pronunciation is the biggest problem for me
I learnt my first Greek word today… παῖςThough i still have to learn to distinguish the genitive, plural and accusative. Yippee, I guess.
>>25241068εὖγε!
>>25241058very commonlots of autismos try to nail down the perfect pronunciation scheme instead of just learning the language
and when you hear them speaking a modern lang, they have a noticeable accent
>>25240648textbook and patience, it's important to follow through, it does look like a big mountain but if the textbook is structured well it's going to build up properly, Athenaze worked very well for me in this regard, with Latin I was more impatient and didn't complete the textbook on the other hand
>>25241058It’s by far the least important part of it since you could pronounce it with any readings of any east asian language including minority or dead ones.I always thought a “remembering the kani” style approach where you just match english meanings to the characters could be fun and learn the readings later in a modern asian lang (RTK/RTH was made for someone grinding the core mandarin or japanese characters)
>>25240648Enjoy the process
>>25241103Thank you! I understand it shall be a long and potentially arduous journey but I’m determined to do it, and have fun doing it, it’s pretty satisfying.
>>25240648>>25241434To elaborate, interesting reading drives volume, volume makes grammar fun because it feels clarifying rather than torturous. Where the chief divide in language pedagogy comes from is basically the gap between readers and puzzle-autists. Puzzle-autists unironically enjoy formal grammar and so they gravitate towards that front-loaded style of language learning, readers dislike grammar until they’ve read enough that it helps them. There is often a huge lack of understanding between people who are real puzzle-autists or readers and so either side will tell you that the other’s methods are invalid and will never pay off. Find the balance of easy reading, the amount of ambiguity you can tolerate, and the amount of grammar you can tolerate (or even find enjoyable) and then continue digging at that brick wall with your spoon until it eventually gives way.
There is nothing more harmful to the acquisition of a language than using a second.
chat have we dabbled in classical japanese?
>>25242087There was one anon who participated in the translation challenge about a couple of threads ago posting in both that and Tibetan(?).
>>25241950Do you mind if I make this the epigraph to my novel?
>>25240814>>25241278>>25241447Thanks frens. I'm having bit of rough time remembering which verbs have object in genitive or dative. Also had some difficulty with participles.But nothing really compares to when you get into the flow of a text and understand it.
>>25242419Use it. It's all yours, my friend :)
>>25242515>verbsyeah that's normal and can still follow you even many years after with some verbs especially if they take multiple objects in their constructionbut apart from some very common ones like ἔπομαι or ἀκούω the rest should stick eventually by reading a lot so initially I wouldn't worry too much about
>>25232497>>25232497ut triste est praesertim postquam orbis tertius advenit de statu sermonis interretialis cogitare
>>25244742>ut triste est, praesertim postquam orbis tertius advenit, de statu sermonis interretialis cogitare
>>25244742>ut triste est de statu sermonis interretialis cogitare; praesertim postquam orbis tertius advenit
>>25244742Vae! In curia non sumus; quare sicut Cicero scribere conaris? Num te perspicuitas terret?
>>25245474mihi non solvm pvncta distingvendi non svnt in more sed iam ne barbara littera “u” qvidem vtor
>>25241058just use Mandarin, it is the best balance between simplicity and accuracyCantonese and Vietnamese are too complex to be easily memorableJapanese and Korean mix too many things togetheralso most CC resources use Mandarin
Tradite mihi aliqua scripta Latina ad Graecam discendi
>>25246545nulla vero novi principia discentibus apta(utor autem exempli gratia «novo lexico manuali» id est lexicum bilingue verborum Latinorum Graecorumque) sed bonum posuisti rogatum, fortasse quibus iam linguae latinae iter perfecerunt volup foret Graecam aggredi Latine sicut, ut reor, media aetate usitati erant
>>25245607Ut aiunt Anglice, “quidquam tibi placet”
Livy’s prose is ____
>>25247052I only read book I of AUC and it's one of my favorites so my verdict is: kino
I invoke the medieval snail lore
Caesar’s prose is ____
>>25248342tight
where are all the women (female) into classical languages/literature? I know from reading random papers that they exist, and that there's a shocking number of them, but where are they?
>>25249560women make up like 50–60% percent of greek/latin students in my uni
>>25249560Foids are disproportionately non-actors so they’re way more likely to form a silent majority in fields like this.
new Stratakino https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hJ8dzE7XTE
humpty bumpty
>>25249560>>25249611when they graduate 90% of them just go into fake email jobs and never use their language again
Why should one study ancient greek?“Of all the creations of the ancient Greek spirit, the one most worthy of admiration, beyond any doubt, is the language. The immense wealth of its lexical tradition, the almost inexhaustible capacity for composition, the semantic precision of its many-colored synonyms, the simplicity of the inflectional system of nouns and the richness of the inflectional system of verbs, the ever-shifting interplay of moods and prepositions, the transparency of its logical and syntactical structure, and finally its elegance and musicality — all these created the most perfect instrument fashioned by man for the expression of his thoughts.And just as language itself arose from the need to express human thought, so in turn it helped to shape that thought: the literary forms with their particularly characteristic features and modes; one thinks especially of Greek poetry in all its variety. And then there are the Greek works of philosophy and history, rhetoric, narrative and myth-making, grammar and philology, medicine and mathematics, astronomy and physics, zoology and botany, geography and ethnography, theology. Entire domains of thought, whose foundations — together with many others still — Greece discovered in antiquity in forms that have remained fundamental. Thus, the expressive power of the ancient Greek language remains active and living in all the languages of civilization (through the technical terminology of vocabulary in all modern languages).”— Raffaele Cantarella, La letteratura greca classica, Florence, 1967, p. 25Translation is chatgpt but I think it's good.
>>25251679I'd have to agree having learned also Latin first I think Greek strikes a nice balance as well with its more analytic features on top of the usual old IE base. Word/concept formation as well makes it so much more flexible.
>>25249560seems to hold true in high schools in my experience in Europe, the classics gymnasium is usually associated with high foid density, the males usually seemed to prefer the technical school route
Something I find fascinating about Classical Armenian is that it uses the infinitive where every other Indo-European language that I'm familiar with uses participles, i.e. the infinitive gets declined with noun endings and can be used for things like Latin's ablative absolute or Greek's genitive absolute. It then uses the actual participle only for statives (e.g. մեռեալ 'dead', սրեալ 'sharpened', առաքեալ 'sent' and thus 'apostle' when substantivized, etc.)Anyone familiar with other IE languages that decline their infinitive?
Wait, I'm a bit mindfucked rn.We have the word στενόςshouldn't the comparative be>στενώτερος instead of>στενότερος Why is it στενότερος since ε is a short vowel and thus the ο turns to ω, eg>σοφός, σοφώτερος, σοφώτατος
>>25253112LSJ offers this explanation and I think it makes sense, I didn't think about the digamma being somewhere in there but the fact that it's one of those words that in Ionic have an elongated e in ει hinted at me that could be the reason
>>25253151damn, could never think of that.thanks, I was actually fuming.
How long did it take you to master* Latin?How long did it take you to master Greek?*By master I mean become pretty good , not necessarily perfect because I personally doubt if that is possible.
>>252535762-4 years maybe depending on how good you mean
>>25252455Well that’s the issue isn’t it, the neat divorce of the two. The idea that a guy who majors in STEM can’t or shouldn’t be expected to be well read.
>>25253576You can Iearn it as fast as you want to put the effort into it you can learn it to mastery in 6 months if youre a pro at memory systems
>>25254134Please define what “mastery” is achievable in six months
I think one of the most underrated things about ancient greek texts is how funny they are at times.I am reading Lysias' against Eratosthenes and I found pic related.It could just be me but I was laughing for 5 mins.
>>25255708I think I get it but knowing the whole context probably makes the difference
>>25256001nah, it's not that deep, I was laughing a "σχετλιώτατε παντων".might be a bit retarded but idk I found it hilarious
Has anyone here learned any Serbian for their epics?They have retained their bardic tradition probably longer than any Europeans. Much of this stuff is shocking: The Building of Skadar describes human sacrifice by the immurement of a king's wife in order to build a fort, whose last act is to ask for a tiny hole in order to nurse her infant son. Some descriptions of violence in the war epics come close to Homeric violence. I'm even told there are some modern poems on Milosevic and Mladic and such, though I can't find them online
>>25256143ah kek, in that case I do have a similar example in the Acharnians, the way the Persian ambassador just bluntly and openly in broken Greek says "you ain't getting any gold you faggot Ionian" also caught me off guard back when I read it the first time
>>25256273>you ain't getting any gold you faggot IonianKekThat's what I'm talking about. Sometimes the scene of the text seems so serious and is serious and then you read something like that and just laughAnother one was Lysias on the murder of Eratosthenes (another Eratosthenes, the dude his wife cheated him on) and while I was reading I saw this >ἀλλʼ οὕτως ἠλιθίως διεκείμην, ὥστε ᾤμην τὴν ἐμαυτοῦ γυναῖκα πασῶν σωφρονεστάτην εἶναι τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει.Literally rofl'd
>>25254173Scaliger mastered homeric Greek at the local library within that time frame
>>25256704No, you made that up
>>25256774>After his father's death, Scaliger spent four years at the University of Paris, where he studied Greek under Adrianus Turnebus. After two months, he found he was not in a position to profit from the lectures of the greatest Greek scholar of the time. He read Homer in twenty-one days, and afterwards read other classical Greek poets, orators, and historians, forming a grammar for himself as he went along. At the suggestion of Guillaume Postel, after learning Greek, he learned Hebrew, and then Arabic, becoming proficient in both.This is wikipedia tier knowledge, not to be sought after in some hidden tome that is in a castle and has never been scanned into the internet
I started studying classical chinese againI will learn it with mandarin pronunciation but for now, I will just recall the pinyin when using ankiI can't pronounce an unaspirated p, t and k yet let alone tones
>>25256786>grew up learning Latin under his a scholar fatherNTA but I'm jelly. Even if he already had a huge headstart, it's still very impressive.
>>25257669Exactly, keep the model in your mind, and surpass it!
>>25248342aristocratic but too politehe left out so much
>>25257836>tfw the gallic war of thrones was left out for a sentence
>>25257836It’s kind of a shame none of his personal letters survived like Cicero. He must have been quite erudite so it would have been interesting to read him in a less stony register.
I think this would sound epic in Latin, can somebody please translate it for my short story:"For who will count the souls of the dead, and art pray to Jesus for them, in their hour of direst need"
>>25258248>Quom enim volit quentare animae mortarum, et ars precar ad Ieso eii, in horam eius de necessi dirissimi
>>25258248>artI(ESL) am not sure I understand this, is this meant to be a short hand for 'are to'? if so>quis enim mortuorum numerabit animas, exorabitque pro iis Iesum cum dira veniat hora
>>25258248“Art” is just an older way of saying “are” as in second person present “to be” so your phrasing (in english) there is “and are pray to…” so you ought to fix that if you go with English.>Qui enim animas mortuorum numerabit, et pro iis Iesum orabit, …I’m getting really annoyed with my translation because I think I’m overly literally taking your idiom and turning it into English when I don’t think I’ve ever seen such phrasing in ecclesiastical or biblical latin.>in hora summae necessitatisA more scriptural rendering that is slightly different in tone would, to me, probably not use “direst need” but “tribulation” for example. However, ecclesiastical latin can and does often sound classical so it just depends on what you’re going for feel wise.Here’s me trying to sound like a gospel.>quis enim animas mortuorum numerabit, et quis pro eis ad Dominum orabit, in hora tribulationis.iis->eis for biblical style, added “ad” for more explicit and biblical feeling syntax, added a repetition of “quis” following “et” for more biblical feel, changed “Jesus” to “Lord” which again is just more how the Bible tends to say it (but Iesum is fine) (also, the creed says “Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum, but that feels overwrought for what you’re doing) altered the ending to “in the hour of tribulation”
>>25258107honestly you could build novels from his work from the implications he left behind, like X from Y tribe died suddenly over the winter so Z, a Roman bro, is now in command >>25258226indeed, but as a statesman i can see why his epistulas were sent to fire
did renaissance authors write anything worth reading in ancient greek like they did with latin?
>>25259085Erasmus wrote in Greek some
There seems to be a series of Loeb like CC texts available now but they've made the texts themselves freely available which is cool
>>25259085that'd be interesting to know. so far i'm aware of some occasional poems here and there but nothing fully fleshed out like a novel or essay, but then again im simply unaware outside of that
>>25259755The texts were always freely available. Prose on ctext.org and poetry on guwendao.netThe actual Loebs of CC are the 三民出版社 editions which have the best commentaries and printing quality
Does "sic" act like a "then/so" here?"Time flees, so seize the day"
>>25261943not really, ergo is what you want for the sense of "therefore"(there's also igitur but it typically comes as second word i.e ergo carpe diem = carpe igitur diem)
>>25261955Important! then what is sic doing?
>>25261958sic in its basic sense means something like "thus/like so/in such a way", it's also means "so" in constructions like e.g "he was so fast that..." sic celer erat ut... although for such constructions "ita" is probably more common
Ὕπνε, ἄναξ πάντων τε θεῶν, πάντων τ´ ἀνθρώπων.-Sleep, ruler of all gods and of all men.Iliad 14.233@Athanasius_45
no way this guy just quoted Homer and dropped his twitter below
>>25262258I deleted twitter but I like this guys' tweets
Recte loquere, homo christiane! noli rusticus esse.Dies Solis > dies DominiDies Lunae > feria SecundaDies Martis > feria TertiaDies Mercurii > feria QuartaDies Jovis > feria QuintaDies Veneris > feria SextaDies Saturni > Sabbatum
>>25262436In what way is a Christian calling Sunday the day of the Lord rustic and improper (for a Christian) you self-important dweeb? I’m gonna change to that now.
You need to be prayermaxxing
same guy as the new Homeric video also posted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LTDONaUtkQ , kinda cool as every time I looked for this sort of thing the recitation seemed done with a modern Indian pronunciation
Do you have any autistic motivation to study Greek or Latin?I am a -soon to be- lawyer and I imagine myself as Demosthenes speaking in court. I haven't even read any works of him yet since I'm not at that level.
>>25263289 I started Latin in law school because of Caesar and Cicero. I’m also about to graduate. I can read Caesar pretty well now.
>>25263289I started Greek to prove that I can translate Homer better than Emily Wilson without a degree.
What does lit think of my Greek Verb Mnemonic AidePresent President/Kings OrderFuture Plans/ DirectionAorist Active Check the watch/ Tradition/ Cultural moorsPerfect Active Ill do it/ Protag colliding into troublePerfect Passive ILL be punished/ Trouble forcing itself backAorist Passive Im Finished/ conclusion of story/ resultSo for instance τῐ́θημῐ defined: to put, place, set, establish etc...present[kings order] τῐ́θημῐ "time to ham it up"future[Plans] θήσω "We're going to a Tay (taylor swift) Concert so...."Aorist Active[Check the watch] θῶ "i 'tho'ught we did this last year thoughPerfect Active[ill do it] τέθηκᾰ "tay? thank you dad"Perfect Passive[ill be punished] τέθειμαι "tay tay my ass"Aorist Passive[Im finished] τεθείην "it aint a thang"
>>25264189wat
>>25206787I am going through Dickey's book and she had an exercise of the sort:>Translate into ancient Greek> b.The wise man pursued the stranger.> c.to pursue (viewed as a process)> d.The stranger was being pursued by the wise man.> etc.Where can I find more exercises on the use of Greek verbs that are as simple as this one? Am I looking for a grammar or syntax exercises book? Would you recommend any specific one?
>>25264245Each of the Athenaze books have accompanying exercise books.
I have started the athenaze book a few times before and I can't seem to stick with this. I'm such a little bitch it sucks
>>25264497you don't like the method, find it boring or too hard? there's also Logos, the newest book in town on the natural method side, I've heard it's easier than Athenaze though you could always use the latter as well for the reading
>>25264529I don't think it's either, I just can't stick to doing it cause I'm an adhd raddled bitch
>>25264573yeah adhd and language learning don't go well together, though even if you just do a bit every day it should pile up, it's important to get some positive feedback, even if you are rereading things it can help
>>25264573The daily volume is less important than the consistency over time.You could just focus on intense bursts of reading for example, which is how Alexander Arguelles learns the basics of a language. 2 15-minute chunks of focused reading a day, executed consistently over a long period, can do a lot.
>>25262165O soft embalmer of the still midnight,Shutting, with careful fingers and benign,Our gloom-pleas'd eyes, embower'd from the light,Enshaded in forgetfulness divine:O soothest Sleep! if so it please thee, closeIn midst of this thine hymn my willing eyes,Or wait the "Amen," ere thy poppy throwsAround my bed its lulling charities.Then save me, or the passed day will shineUpon my pillow, breeding many woes,—Save me from curious Conscience, that still lordsIts strength for darkness, burrowing like a mole;Turn the key deftly in the oiled wards,And seal the hushed Casket of my Soul.
Started learning Latin two years ago to read primary sources for history. A year ago saw Steadman’s reader for Ovid, thought “eh why not I’ll give it a shot”. Devoured it in a few days and became totally obsessed with poetry and I haven’t read any prose in around 8 months. I don’t even care about reading history primary sources anymore. Isn’t it funny when things work out like that?
>>25266130Funny I still find poetry to be largely AIDS but I think I just haven’t learned to love the inflections enough yet.
>>25266130I know that feel I thought I was largely immune to enjoying poetry(in any language) but once I unlocked the hexameter I've mostly been reading and rereading Homer and even in Latin Virgil is up there among my favorite texts I've read so far in Latineven other meters like the iambic trimeter have been satisfying albeit harder to get into my head
>>25266400>once I unlocked the hexameter I've mostly been reading and rereading Homer and even in Latin Virgil is up there among my favorite texts I've read so far in Latin100%, once you unlock that level the rest is as smooth as butter and as sweet as sugar
>>25266424when and how did that happen?
>>25266400>I know that feel I thought I was largely immune to enjoying poetryI had the same feeling. Interestingly I reread Paradise Lost recently, and after all the Latin poetry I’ve been reading I enjoyed it in a different way; like before I had read it in a dry, analytic way, but this time I was just enjoying the beautiful rhythm>I've mostly been reading and rereading HomerOnce I finish Vergil I’m gonna start learning Homeric Greek, can’t wait
>>25266473I decided to read Ovid's Metamorphoses without stopping, day after day. By the end of the month, even my Latin shitposts became sing-songy and often would slip into a random hexameter without consciously doing so.
>>25266036>ἔνθα δὲ Νυκτὸς παῖδες ἐρεμνῆς οἰκί᾽ ἔχουσιν,>Ὕπνος καὶ Θάνατος, δεινοὶ θεοί· οὐδέ ποτ᾽ αὐτοὺς>Ἠέλιος φαέθων ἐπιδέρκεται ἀκτίνεσσιν>οὐρανὸν εἰς ἀνιὼν οὐδ᾽ οὐρανόθεν καταβαίνων.>τῶν δ᾽ ἕτερος γαῖάν τε καὶ εὐρέα νῶτα θαλάσσης>ἥσυχος ἀνστρέφεται καὶ μείλιχος ἀνθρώποισι...
so what's the closest thing to the horror genre in ancient lit? any spooky stories from 1 of those 2000 page tomes?
>>25267927The werewolf story in Petronius Demeter disguising herself as a maid and burning the child in the fire in the Homeric hymnsseveral from Arabian Nights if that counts - the man being chased into the desert by a shape shifting ghoul or the story of the magnetic mountainBasically short fables and similar tended to have horror elements to warn the listener
>>25267932>The werewolf story in Petroniusthis looks like a good one thanks
>>25267927In classical Chinese there is a strong horror/supernatural fantasy writing tradition called 志怪 zhiguai dating back to the Han dynasty or even earlier to the 山海经 shanhai jing written pre-warring statesThe best known is 聊斋志异 liaozhai zhiyi from the qing dynastyI've not read all of them but a lot of them write about succubi and evil spirits that kill men through having too much sex with them
Can someone who can edit the rentry add this to the Old Norse resources?>https://onp.ku.dk/onp/onp.phpIt's an online Old Norse dictionary run by the University of Copenhagen
>>25269566Added.
>>25264189I got this one for nouns too>1ST contemporary>2ND 50's>3RD 80's>FEMININE CHICKS: ASS/ CAT CALLING (FEM CHARACTERS) >MASCULINE HUSTLERS: HOES/ ON (VERY MASCULINE CHARACTERS)>NEUTRAL MAGIC TRICKS (PLOT HEAVY)>sequenceNOM NAME OF GAMEGEN 1 GAIN OF GAMEGEN 2 CONCLUSION OF GAMESo for instance: ἔγχος • (énkhos) NEUTRAL (//TRICKS//) (genitive ἔγχους or ἔγχεος); THIRD DECLENSION (//80's//)(Epic) spear; spearmanship (later) weapons in general: sword, arrow, etc.(metonymic) armed forceIt would go like this, this is a funny oneNOM/NAME OF GAME "grab your ankles cousin"GEN 1/ GAIN OF GAME "hank! get that out of the house!"GEN 2/ CONCLUSION OF GAME "hank its going in your ass!"
any criticism of my in-progress guide to Chinese philosophy would be appreciatedwill also add basic info about the schools and texts (but not translations, since I have not read enough of them)
>>25269863not into Chinese but I like this style
>>25269817Remembering Nominitave Genitive Dative Accusative Ablative in Latin for me was unironicallyNiggerGangDeathsAfricanAmerican
>>25269768
(斯非漢文)安倍弖話題奈加利勢受騰文奈尓可伊比尓祁流代之我奈良武曾礼尓波伊豆礼夜宇尓加奇弖氣津志奇登奈武許等奈利許能文余磨氣礼祁良婆曾奈多我多利之婆夜白癡可良文句代都遠古事記・萬葉集形舊字體萬葉假名尓許能文加奇都我志 阿良夜宇武貨乃蘇礼夜宇尓佐騰之登志奈自加許阿良努登叙和於母敝理伊多久奈尓可加々磨保志之礼志
i want to kill myselfso tired of it all>>25269863how does does it compare to The West?
I'm planning to start learning Latin. I already picked up a copy of LLPSI Familia Romana and the companion book by Jeanne Neumann, but was just wondering about which of the 3 textbooks to get. What are your opinions/rankings for Wheelock, Learn to Read, and Cambridge?
>>25272611Cambridge course is with picture and all and is in the Mega and pretty comfy.Though I do recommend Wheellock for more intensive studies. They have a Textbook, Workbook and Companion book with extra learning. I am working through all of those rn
The more I read Greek the more I think you can't really escape knowing perfect syntax.
>>25272611If you have the companion book, I don't personally think there's much point in working through a secondary textbook simultaneously. There is a danger of stretching yourself too thin. If you want grammatical exercises, LLPSI has a workbook. There is also an Italian version of the workbook that might be more elaborate. If you want to use one of those outside textbooks, I would pick Wheelock. I would only recommend incorporating Cambridge for the Latin readings, and even then, only if they are of interest to you. Along the same lines, you could incorporate Ofxord or Ecce Romani. Just don't get sucked into the trap of wasting too much time on the English articles or the exercises. LLPSI between the main text and supplements already has a lot of text, so you might find that is enough, and there are better texts to use for supplemental reading than CLC. I'm not familiar with Learn to Read Latin, so I can't comment.
>>25272611You probably don’t need a textbook. Neumann’s companion is enough. After you go through it you’ll be able to handle Steadman’s readers
>>25213298rursum cupido me cepit latine scribendi, age cedo bonos numeros, scribam aliquid post exercitationes, hodie enim dies crurum est
>>25273171dicam igitur pauca de patria mea, Italia, olim Hesperia, Ausonia quoque si licet totam eadem appellatione non modo meridianam nuncupare: quae quam novere Romani saeculo secundo, adhuc magna parte permanet praeter Corsicam a Gallis nobis dolo subductam pecunia impensa et aliquas plagas in Dalmatia bello orbis terrarum recente depositas; sane non dico permansisse continuatim, sciunt omnes post barbaros imperium adeptos regisse paulatim totum regnum Italicum sed bello Gotico perfecto divisum per multa saecula usque ad recentiora cum tandem sacro imperio Romano obstandi causa datum sit a maioribus nationibus unam fieri rursummulti dicerent non sine maioribus difficultatibus adhuc regi et versari asperitatibus saeculi nostri sed bona speremus
>>25273466>paulatim*paulum
>>25272661>>25273040>>25273154Thanks anons, I'll just stick with the LLPSI + companion for now then and get Wheelock later if I really need it
who thought this was a good idea?
>>25251413Anyone know if there's an artistic representation of Aeneas' shield like pic related?
>>25259085You might be interested in this, it discusses "New Ancient Greek" during the Renaissance. https://limewire.com/?referrer=pq7i8xx7p2
boomp
Anyone have a link to drive with Lingua Latina resources?
>>25275836you mean like the one in the OP or is something missing? there's a Lingua Latina folder in there
cur adeo pauci sumus qui latine conantur colloqui nugarive saltem? an parva vobis videtur res linguae exercendae? ut enim facilius memoriae tradatur lingua, scribendo non modo legendo opus est anniti
Are there any spoken resources to learn Greek/Latin pronounciation? I've gone through all links in the OP and i can't find any and i dislike learning pronounciation through books with no audio examples. I don't care if the pronounciation is 100% historically accurate.I'd also if it's at all possible i'd like to only use only 1 resource for each language, since i don't like going through multiple youtube videos made by different people to learn information.
>>25277830I also don't mind the Ecclesiastical pronunciation (since i'm learning Latin for Catholic Philosophy and Theology specifically) so if there any resources on that pronounciation i won't mind it at all.
>>25266036εὖτε κατὰ γλυκὺς ὕπνος ἔχοι λευκώλενον Ἥρην·λάνθανε δ’ ἀθανάτους τε θεοὺς θνητούς τ’ ἀνθρώπους
>>25277830I don't have any recommendation for a one-stop video to listen to. The basic rules of Latin pronunciation are simple enough. A page or two of instructions from a book is enough to get going. If you're interested in ecclesiastical pronunciation, look at the pronunciation section from some edition of the Liber Usualis.https://www.ccwatershed.org/2013/03/19/liber-usualis-english-translations-solesmes-1957/https://www.ccwatershed.org/2013/03/19/1961-solesmes-liber-usualis-online-free-pdf/Latin is an international language without native speakers. Even between fellow users of the "ecclesiastical" pronunciation or "restored" pronunciation, there are going to be a lot of idiosyncrasies. For ecclesiastical, you can model your pronunciation off the sound of Italian or a similar Romance language to the extent that you are able or feel comfortable doing.The other important thing to be aware of with Latin pronunciation is the existence of long and short syllables, and the placement of stress accent. I don't remember if that's explained in the Liber Usualis. Look at the parts on syllablic division and accentuation in the pronunciation guide in the beginning of the LLPSI student guide (either Latine Disco or the Neumann Companion), or Wheelock's, or probably whatever textbook.Then you can find examples of ecclesiastical Latin online. Here are two examples I like. (Interestingly, both of these people are from Brazil. Go figure.)https://www.youtube.com/@litteraechristianaehttps://www.youtube.com/@lectionesantiquae3090 (This channel has videos both pronunciations. The older ones tend to be ecclesiastical.)Examples with classical pronunciation are helpful too, because the ecclesiastical pronunciation is going to be (for the most part) the same with some minor transformations.
>>25277948Thank you brother. Your help is much appreciated. I was scared of sounding like an idiot when sub vocalizing in Classical Latin with my only examples being text only, but it seems like my pronounciation is decent enough.Are there any other resources on Classical Greek besides that Youtube channel you linked me to?
>>25278017The bar for Latin pronunciation is very low. If you can avoid the most egregious Anglicisms (for example, making sure you're not diphthongizing pure vowels), you're ahead of the pack to a large degree. I don't think Latin pronunciation is something worth agonizing over unless you're personally interested in the pronunciation for its own sake. You can refine your pronunciation over time as you learn more and maybe as your opinions change.I started learning Greek a while back, but I quit to focus on Spanish. When I was starting Greek, I found some of the videos on this channel helpful, the linked on in particular. He also had a spreadsheet showing how the pronunciation of different Greek letters changed over time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBpwKWnZAo&list=PLQQL5IeNgck0hFZ5oEfTV1Zhp_xksAgCz&index=12
>>25277358tam difficile est latine scribere ut non velim
>>25278335necesse est tibi scribere
>>25278369Fortasse necesse non est, quod omnia quaecumque volebam legere iam scripts erant. Sed tamen scibere volo.
>>25278430>scriptaHeu! Erratum feci!
>>25278335agnosco sed debemus conari!
Epaphra glaber es
im gonna do it yeah im gonna do itbeware in english classyou will be corrected plebs
>want to learn greek to read pindar>get told he's the hardest author in greekRealistically speaking, how long will it take me to be able to read Pindar fluently?
>>25279433If you study just Pindar, not very long at all.
>>25272661Why do people in this thread keep recommending Wheelock? Just keep a copy of Bennet nearby, or do an actual course, like LFTNM.
>>25279433if you have read him already in translation and are thus well acquainted with the background of the odes and Greek culture more generally then maybe it's not too bad, the Greek itself is hard but on first read without knowing anything about him it's made worse by not knowing the whole contextof course if by reading fluently you include re-reading then sure, after enough exposure it should start to click, but still probably a few years
Have a few months. Should I dive in or should I finally take the dive on French?
>>25279446Wheelock's is an inexpensive, single volume textbook, without as much filler as certain other options. It's maybe not the perfect textbook, but I would pick it for an adult self-student over something like the Cambridge books. It's popular, so you're going to more easily find resources for it online (answer keys, forum posts, Discord servers or whatever people use these days).I'm also growing more and more of the opinion that "doing courses" (Wheelock's included) is not an efficient use of time, so the more bare bones you can make it, the better.
>>25268390_._ ill have to read this gib link
started Pharr’s Homeric Greek. What am I in for?
>>25279470french is likely easier to get into when you don't have as much free time, after all even when working many jobs you could immerse yourself in content from natives, so in your position if I really wanted to get into Norse I'd use free time for that, then later on French
>>25279620Chinese original available here: https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E8%81%8A%E9%BD%8B%E5%BF%97%E7%95%B0as for English, I recommend the Minford translation which you can find here: https://archive.org/details/strangetalesfrom0000puso_e4v0/mode/2up but it lacks some stories.the Giles translation is out of copyright but it is of very victorian morality and refuses to discuss any sexual undertonesI would advise starting with 石清虛 (Shi Qingxu), a story about a man and his love for a gay rock, or 嬰寧 (Ying Ning)
>>25279764200 words of English for every 10 of the target language
>>25277830https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_Ancient_Greek_in_teachingIf you're from a European country, most likely all your ancestors before 1950 learned Latin and Greek and pronounced it in a certain way that was a standard in all schools and universities. Find out what it was. Look for old textbooks from your country. It should roughly match how you pronounce words of Latin and Greek origin in your own language. Ignore youtubers and bald ones above all.
>>25280029I see that now. I am going to skim as much of the explanation as possible and focus on the translation/reading exercises.
ὁ Δικαιόπολις ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς πονεῖ.
>>25280364If you’re thoroughly using Pharr, you could consider using an SRS like anki for some big chunk of lines, like the first 100 as just Greek front and a super literal, ideally self-made, gloss on the back and whatever notes you feel are worth it.
>>25279433>how long will it take me to be able to read Pindarabout 3 years>fluentlyprobably closer to 7
Modern Greek should just use the Latin alphabet and its people should just drop all pretentions off being connected to the classical civilization. A British prep schoolchild is more Greek than them. They should rename the country. Maybe to the Balkan Republic or West Turkey.
>>25281805rude
>>25281805this bait would work better on /his/
>>25281871Sorry its just a thought I had during my studies. >>25281876I genuinely mean it. It's not bait like that and I won't be an argumentive shitposter type i promise
>>25281876He most likely posted it there already. I think it's a russian or serb going around posting this everywhere lol.
>>25281095
>>25281880It's really not bait
do you guys ever talk to people in the languages you learn or do you mostly just learn to read?
>>25283910>ever talk to people in the languages you learnI don’t even talk to people in the languages I know.
>>25283962That's a shame, the world is a lesser place for it.
>>25262165>>25262293Hauntingly beautiful
>>25283972Moving... I’ll call my mom today.
>>25283910we do a little weekly composition on the porticus but talking Latin today IRL is basically impossible unless you live in a special area with enough likeminded people or something
>>25269863For Confucianism, isn't it easiest to start from Mencius and the Analects? I think those texts give the clearest description of Confucian ideals. Especially Mencius.
>>25285441There are a few such events, in the US the Septentrionale Americanum Latinitatis Vivae Institutum runs the week-long Rusticatio at a resort in West Virginia.
ΥΟΚΑΚ ΣΟΤΝΑΠ ΟΠΑ ΕΜ ΝΟΞΑΛΥΦ
>>25285644My logic is that Mencius is a development of the ideas laid out in the analects about ren, yi, the junzi etc - it doesn't make complete sense if you don't have the context of the analects to understand the concepts that are being discussedAlso I think the daxue and zhongyong are a better introduction as they are shorter, easier for western readers to understand conceptually, and were taught to Chinese students before the lunyu and mengzi. The daxue was the first text that students at shuyuan would learn.
I don’t study Greek but I have this thing I got from the antique shop; does it actually mean anything or is it just nonsense.
>>25286514it's "Apollo"what is it, some metal relief?
>>25286521Oh! Thanks. Yeah it’s for hanging on the wall.
>>25286593>>25286593>>25286593
Iuliā is so cute, bros
