Of course its Samizdat edition, not Punctuation edition

Please no discussion of genre fiction in this thread. Literature for children and retards belongs in /wng/.

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Asking the question most relevant to this thread:

How do I accept being a skill-less writelet who will never be published?

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>>25208554
it could be worse. You could be talented and lazy.

>>25208537
>he doesn't use genre as an entertaining vehicle for efficiently illustrating his lofty ideas

since I was at the tail end of the last thread just want to throw this fishing rod into the pond again. If anyone wants to give me feedback, especially on the second play the press would probably be willing to send a pdf. Been working on it for close to three years. One of them I wrote during a 40 day spat when I had a fever of 43.3 degrees celcius (yes really) after being bitten by a tick while visiting my hometown.

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>>25208624
forgot pic

>>25208630
weird ahh cover

>>25208630
It's nice that you put that it's a collection of plays on the cover because that cover makes it look like a nonfiction textbook.

>>25208630
So misspelling "literature" is your serious effort?

>>25208690
>Unreal Press is the leader in alt-lit fiction and internet underground. They come from 4chan. Gavilovski is the flagship talent to have emerged from the /lit/ renaissance. This is litrature of the XXI century.
Seems to be a branding thing

>>25208554
Publish on the net and strike it rich.

>>25208594
My brother in Christ you are currently begging for readers on /lit/. You are an unknown.

>>25208755
You're right. Anyway, would anyone care to give feedback on Carbon Pages?

>>25208755
He's a published author. You on the other hand have written nothing worth reading and have published zero books. Your entire legacy amounts to a couple of anonymous posts in a subpar general on a dead board, and your parents are disappointed in you.

>>25208690
it's a reference to /lit/

>>25208690
one of the plays follows a gang of characters based closely on namefags from this board so I think it's reference to this board. Either way its kino

>>25208624
well that's very impressive if you managed to get a set of plays published. congratulations.

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>>25208782
I added it to my list and might leave a review some day but the price tag gives me pause due to my impecunity.

>>25208791
Much of thar is true except I'm actually a fellow unknown author. Check out my next book, I'm releasing it in the summer.

>>25208825
Like it's been said before, the author gives pdfs/ebooks to those who ask

>>25208830
Then why not just post a catbox download link?

>>25208835
that gets removed by mods

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>>25208825
nigga this is an unpublished manuscript you shill on boomer facebook groups. This is not in the same league as an illustrated hardcover following the life and death of Alexander Dugin.

>>25208791
Does self pub count?

>>25208842
Hey buddy at least my description doesn't say I "come from 4chan."

>>25208838
Not if it isn't reported. Which is something anyone could already do given shilling your own work outside of ads is also against the rules.

>>25208854
unreal press is an indie press. That's like saying cairo smith or matthew gasda are self-published.

>>25208864
It seems like Unreal Press is run by Gavilovski in some capacity so I don't think Carbon Pages quite counts as not self-published

>>25208867
if it has a dustjacket, it's a higher level of self publishing than what the rest of us do, so give the man credit

being trad published is a marker of fraudulence in current day
i only trust unvaccinated self pub authors in 2026

>>25208929
A friend of mine is starting a no-bullshit publishing company that won't discriminated in favor of current-year politics. I'll bu publishing my stuff there and maybe even become an editor in the future. Don't worry, you'll guys will have a place.

>>25208940
anyone can start an llc and call themself a publisher, the problem is relevance and reach
if you aren't woke then the industry won't work with you, and so you'll be a publisher in name only

>>25208955
>if you aren't woke then the industry won't work with you
What does this mean exactly? Why won't editors and agents work with him? Surely, not ALL of them are woke. After that, I imagine what's left are paying the printing and distribution companies.

>>25208976
it's a chilling effect. agents value connections over everything, so they won't associate with (supposedly reprehensible author), even if their stuff is great, because it might offend the wokest retard on their contact list.

>>25208976
>Why won't editors and agents work with him?
Some will, I'm sure, but they don't matter. Agents and editors aren't "the industry" I'm referring to
Distribution is the issue. Getting the book out there so that you as a publisher provide value to the author, rather than those authors dying in obscurity like every other small-pub release. I don't think you realize how hard getting shelf space at major retailers is. You need connections with big names and those big names have clear stances and preferences on all this garbage.

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Finished writing something for the first time. I know it's pretty shit and needs to be edited heavily to be even readable. Still would appreciate if you guys told me if I should submit it to a small literary journal or just give up on it,

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>>25209021

>>25208987
>>25209005
My dudes you are in the digital era. The time when retailers gatekept what people could consume it's over. You can see whenever a self-published novel gets track they scramble after that author to get their stuff printed, no matter what it is about. Businessmen just need to develop a working strategy based on this. Marketing, on-demand printing, subscription-based reading format ever adhering to high-quality standards, etc. It's there for the taking. I'm not saying my friend will be successful though I wish he will, but what I mentioned is the future.

>>25209026
I'm sorry, you're making no sense. What kind of publishing company is your friend making if you're encouraging self-pub success -> tradpub? Or
>Marketing, on-demand printing, subscription-based reading
Which are completely cornered by other industry behemoths?

What exactly is "there for the taking" from the perspective of a small indie publisher? Not to be rude but you're babbling incoherently and conflating two different views (the author and the publisher)

>>25209035
Perhaps the confusion arose because I implied it's a trad-publishing company. That was not it. That bridge can be crossed in the future once it's popular enough. If not by him, by these other behemoths you mentioned.
>completely cornered
That's debatable, and a very pessimistic take on any industry.

Kek unreal press is glorified self-published slop using lulu as their pod distributor

>>25209045
...? So what, exactly, will this company do? Sell the books through their website and offer print-on-demand? Be a serialized fiction website like Royal Road? How are they going to stand out? Just by allowing 'non-woke' stuff? Amazon and serial sites already do. The issue is with trad pub, and you just said he's not planning on doing a trad-pub approach

>That's debatable, and a very pessimistic take on any industry.
It's not debatable, and it's not pessimistic but realistic. Amazon has the entire marketplace and selfpub industry by the balls. They take 60% of audiobook profit for literally NOTHING, just hosting the files on their site, and nobody can do anything about it because 99.9% (if not more) of customers exclusively use amazon.

I mean, best of luck to your friend, but not only do I have no clue what the business model even is since you're so vague, but it also sounds like he (at least by proxy of you) has no idea what the state of the industry is, which is an absolute guaranteed path to failure.

>>25209059
>Sell the books through their website and offer print-on-demand? Be a serialized fiction website like Royal Road?
Yes, my dude, among other things, and in the future trad-pub if possible.
>How are they going to stand out? Just by allowing 'non-woke' stuff? Amazon and serial sites already do.
I hate arguing on 4chan because of this. You want an academic level essay explaining completely, in-detail, the business model, the competing strategy, the market research, etc. Otherwise I'm retarded. And if I do go on this autistic tirade, next you'll request expected revenue numbers to support the model, profit margins, and whatever else you can come up with. If I can not prove (and I never will) that it will work, then you have won this 'argument' in your head. If we were having this conversation in the 80s about Microsoft or Apple, or in the 90s about Amazon, you'd use the same arguments. Yes, there will be fierce competition, yes there it will be difficult, but I stand by what I said: there is a way. If you think it's all worthless and everybody should continue bowing to the whims of the trad-publishing industry, I respect your preference, but that's not the same for all of us.

Grok is foogin harsh. It gave 4.5/10 to an excerpt Claude rates 9/10.

>>25208802
>one of the plays follows a gang of characters based closely on namefags from this board
Platforming tripfags is not kino

>>25209084
No, I don't want anything in-depth, I want the most surface level overview of why you think customers would buy from this indie publisher instead of the major marketplaces. How are you going to get customers if you have no purpose for existing? The only reason I engaged to begin with is because "aggressively non-woke tradpubber" is at least a path forward, though I'm sure other indie pubs are trying and failing already to do that.
Now that you're saying it's purely online, though, the one advantage you have is gone, because online is already way less content restricted. I don't understand why this company would exist. If someone did want to say fuck-you to Amazon, they would use Kobo or something.
>If you think it's all worthless and everybody should continue bowing to the whims of the trad-publishing industry
I also hate arguing on 4chan because of people like you. I'm not saying I like having the boot on my throat, I'm merely observing that the boot is most definitely on the throat, and it will not leave through incredible optimism. This business makes no sense. It sounds like you have absolutely nothing but pluck, and that doesn't end well

>>25209108
You're basically saying "it will never work because other people are doing it!" Okay then anon, but even if my friend's company doesn't work, then at least you'll concede other people's might, right? For get my friend, my argument is non-woke literature will still have a future, be it if these other companies grow their marketshare and overtake trad-publishing or trad-publishing ends up bowing to the popularity of non-woke media in the end.

>>25209124
>Okay then anon, but even if my friend's company doesn't work, then at least you'll concede other people's might, right?
I said those other companies (hypothetical anti-woke tradpubbers) MIGHT work because they have a reason for existing.
I said your friend's won't because it has no reason for existing.
>non-woke literature will still have a future
It already thrives in outside venues, don't kid yourself. Alt-right stuff is incredibly popular, Donald Trump is the president of the United States, dude.
The issue is that TRADPUB shuts it out. And that's all I was trying to talk about and the only reason I engaged with you, is because you said your friend was making an anti-woke pubbing company and I assumed (reasonably) that you meant trad pub. Then you rugpulled and kept arguing about nothing

What exactly is "non-woke literature?" Provide examples along with your description.

>>25209148
My whole point was that retail cannot afford to keep gatekeeping the trad-pub industry forever. Then I said that if my friend's company grows to be popular enough (by whatever strategy, maybe offering professional level editor and marketing work instead of just allowing to self-pub like other wbesites, idk) then it can overcome the reluctance of the retail industry, by which you replied "It's impossible! He'll never be popular enough for that!"
You argue that retail holds the leash on trad-pub, and I said 'not for long.' That is all this is about.

>>25209174
>My whole point was that retail cannot afford to keep gatekeeping the trad-pub industry forever.
Was not the reason I engaged with you at all. All I cared about talking about (and consistently tried to stop you from diverging from) was your friend's company and how it would break through the status-quo
>Then I said that if my friend's company grows to be popular enough
Which I said is impossible without a purpose for existing, a strategy to execute on - that was MY point you keep ignoring, even now. The "if" in that statement is loadbearing and equal parts hilarious and annoying, and the only thing I keep addressing. I'm genuinely not sure how you think I'm talking about anything else.
>You argue that retail holds the leash on trad-pub, and I said 'not for long.' That is all this is about.
There has been little to no sign of budging in that regard so I'm genuinely fascinated how you think it's going to happen soon. It might change in 15 years after years of catastrophic profit decreases, but while tradpub is shrinking it's not crashing, and the shrink is easily explained by how reading as a whole is dying as a hobby. I see zero pressing industry reasons why tradpub would change (this is not a topic I even want to talk about, especially with someone who seems enormously uninformed)
More realistically, (and as we see happening now), such works will simply thrive through external marketplaces, not in tradpub. The more likely outcome is that tradpub will grow antiquated and irrelevant versus online marketplaces
I bet Amazon already sells more books than bookstores

>Finally finished my book and submitted my book and am waiting for Ingramspark distribution to get arranged

To the anons who criticised an excerpt of the book posted here years ago: thanks. It WAS shit and I’m glad I fixed it. We’re all gonna make it.

>>25209152
I was going to ask something similar, what makes the publishing companies woke?

>>25209191
>Which I said is impossible without a purpose for existing, a strategy to execute on - that was MY point you keep ignoring, even now.
By your own logic, Royal Road, Substack, Wattpad, and Kindle Direct all had 'no reason to exist'. They exist and they're massive. Let me make this very clear right: I'm not pitching a business model. The fact is that those type business exist and can succeed
> I see zero pressing industry reasons why trad-pub would change
Then you see very little. Romance, LitRPG, and web fiction genres are now dominated by indie or digital-first publishers that trad-pub ignored or rejected. BookTok and reader communities are increasing ve discovery. Barnes & Noble nearly went bankrupt already, didn't hey. They will have to follow the money at some point.
>It might change in 15 years after years of catastrophic profit decreases, but while tradpub is shrinking it's not crashing, and the shrink is easily explained by how reading as a whole is dying as a hobby.
Yet shrinking it is, regardless the reason, and it will need to adapt.
>All I cared about talking about (and consistently tried to stop you from diverging from) was your friend's company and how it would break through the status-quo
>Alt-right stuff is incredibly popular, Donald Trump is the president of the United States, dude.
You agree then that anti-woke trad-pub has a path forward because it has a reason to exist. I'm telling you that my friend's company IS that, just built bottom-up. You build the audience online first and then you walk into a retail buyer's office with proof of demand. At that point what exactly is their objection? They'll just say no to money because they're such good goyim? Tell me then, at what sales threshold does my friend's company earn the right to approach retail?

>>25209256
>Royal Road, Substack, Wattpad, and Kindle Direct
Royal Road was a fanfiction site - it grew naturally from that into a refuge for niche nerd fantasy fiction, which Tradpub has begun to neglect (hence success like DCC). Wattpad is old as fuck, established in 2006, which is why it's popular. First mover advantage and growing naturally from that. Kindle Direct coasts off Amazon's success, obviously. I don't know Substack's history but I'm sure it has a very clear reason for existing/success that explains its popularity (I'm not actually sure it's that popular desu, isn't Patreon WAY bigger?).
Your friend's company has none of that
>the other stuff
As I've said a half dozen times I don't want to talk about the industry with someone who sounds childishly uninformed.
>You build the audience online first
My god you are infuriating. I've said ten times now: HOW will he do this? It's the only thing I want to talk about, because it's the insurmountable problem. You don't have enormous venture capital or another company to ride on, you don't have a gimmick or clear strategy, you don't even have a gimmick to pivot off of after obtaining niche success (like Royal Road did). You have NOTHING. Upsetting the status quo doesn't just happen out of nowhere, you dumb rube.
I'm not responding anymore after 5 posts of you ignoring what I'm typing.

>My god you are infuriating. I've said ten times now: HOW will he do this? It's the only thing I want to talk about, because it's the insurmountable problem. You don't have enormous venture capital or another company to ride on, you don't have a gimmick or clear strategy, you don't even have a gimmick to pivot off of after obtaining niche success (like Royal Road did). You have NOTHING. Upsetting the status quo doesn't just happen out of nowhere, you dumb rube.
Obviously you find the cutest girl you know, pay her to shill your book and post it on tiktok!

>>25209021
>>25208077

>>25209290
>Your friend's company has none of that
Fine. Here's what I think he can do: professional editorial standards applied to content that woke publishers reject. Is that enough of a strategy for you? Is he allowed to do marketing on top of that? Or is this not enough for your impossibly high, industry-savvy standards? The platform already exists: it's the existing audience. My friend doesn't need to build an audience from zero. That audience is already congregated on Royal Road, here, certain Substacks, and conservative media ecosystems. Will you allow him to do marking aimed at these people?
And does he need to beat Amazon or Wattpad from the start? Why can't he beat, let's say, Baen Books?
>First mover advantage and growing naturally from that.
>You don't have enormous venture capital or another company to ride on, you don't have a gimmick or clear strategy, you don't even have a gimmick to pivot off of after obtaining niche success (like Royal Road did)
You're expalainig why they succeeded, not proving that success requires those specific conditions. New entrants don't need first-mover advantage, they just need a differentiated reason to exist. Editorial quality and ideological niche can be that.
>You have NOTHING.
Baen had nothing once too. Jim Baen started as an editor and launched the company in 1983 with no Amazon, no internet, no venture capital. He had a vision for an underserved audience. Why can't someone else do that? Because a prat on an cambodian basket-weaving said so?

>>25209300
Marketing doesn't exist in anon's world.

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if any of you fine upstanding anons would like a free copy of this new thriller, email thedarktriadsociety@gmail.com and ye shall receive.

>>25209603
Would you mind if I uploaded it to z-lib?

>>25209658
share anywhere you like

>>25208523
>Samizdat
like from Infinite Jest?

I only need two or three ISBNs for each edition of my book but they offer a huge discount for bulk orders so I'm getting 10

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40k words in. Here's my latest chapter (2 and half PDF pages) translated to english. Rate pls.

>>25210054
1. prose is not bad, but has too many line breaks for its own good
2. i've got no real idea what's happening.

>>25210098
Yea, it's from the middle.
Oyun is young woman who just experienced bride kidnapping and rape, in the excerpt she arrives with her rapist to his camp to be his concubine. In the country and time the story is set rape is crime, bride kidnapping isn't, as was the case at the time.

>>25210144
the patriarchy was horrible, glad it's over.

>>25210148
it's really not feminist or critique of patriarchy. The notion that contemporary women have something in common with turkic women of the steppe becouse they are womyn is pretty insane to me, or that they share some sort of female plight/struggle together. No, I think (hope, am trying to...) the reader (no matter if male or female) will be able to sympathize with Oyun becouse she is human and she lives in world that doesn't allow for self-determination (no matter if you are strong or weak). This all of course cannot be gathered from those 2 pages.

>>25210054
>>25210148
>>25210221
Will probably win a Pulitzer or Nobel or something.

>>25209152
>>25209238
Anything that portrays reality in a way that doesn't conform with woke ideology. I think it should be pretty obvious what those are? I assume you're just a leftist pretending not to understand as always, but in stories there are ideas that are generally always handled the same way. For example: law and justice will generally be viewed negatively and suspiciously. Straightforwardly suggesting the world is made up of a certain amount of people who are just genetic criminals who deserve to die would be frowned upon. Policing of language, refusal to allow certain stereotypical portrayals of women or other races even when those stereotypes are correct. General denial of reality, etc.

There is an extremely narrow window of acceptable philosophical viewpoints in modern publishing and it's really obvious. There are certain ideas that must always be handled the same way. The same message has to be arrived at.

Anyway, kill yourselves you retarded leftist scum. Time wasting disingenuous little roaches.

Is it feasible to become a literary author if you don't have cool-sounding name?

>>25210281
Scott Bakker proves that, yes, you can.

But dont most take pseudonyms?

>>25210281
Your name should be your last concern. Make sure you can shape a good sentence, paragraph, page, chapter, and narrative arc, so you have something decent over which to inscribe your unwriterly name.

>>25210281
>>25210284
oh wait this isnt the sffg thread. my bad.

well, "tolstoy" means "fatty" in russia if slightly mispronounced

I feel like shelving a very ambitious, difficult to write project for a novel (with multiple factions and the sentient ocean as major antagonist, one anon knows) to write something simpler and slop-pier first. Feels dissatisfying, but I simply lack the tools to put to paper what I really want right now.

>>25210237
is it that bad? Idk some of the sentences dont work in english and idk how to translate them

How do you guys write chapters / scenes
Was looking for inspiration / critique of my method
I just think of something I wanna write, then work backwards on how to get to that moment
Then, I think of what the point of the scene is, emotionally I guess you could call it, or the "essence" of it. From then on, every action that takes place in the scene should either represent or be able to be narrated as part of the essence
I just work my way backwards to an origin, then write very literal depictions of what's going on, because every fact, piece of backstory/exposition, action, dialogue, and assertions made by the narrator are emphasizing this same point

>>25210762
>How do you guys write chapters / scenes
For chapters: I try to think of a point that needs to come across. It must have a purpose.
For example in my femboy elves story, chapter 1 has the purpose of the arrival of the elves' convoy. It's the most important thing or 'the climax' of the chapter. Obviously, I can't just say "the convoy with the elves arrived" and end the chapter, so there's groundwork like writing the setting and what this arrival means to the characters and who these characters are.
For scenes: likewise but you don't need to have a grand objective, just that it needs to say something: move the plot forward, or establish something about a character, or establish about the world. It needs to be relevant.

>>25210256
You got way too defensive way too fast over an innocuous question. And when I said examples I meant titles.

>>25210281
It is not feasible to become a literary author.

>>25210344
Anon, take it slow. Something I did not say is that you seemed eager to get to the juicy parts of your story. I understand that feeling. However, you need to be patient. Remember when I said you had whole arcs in a chapter? That still exists somewhat. You're overeager in the storytelling. Slow down, and start thinking in the moment for the characters. Imagine you're GRRM and you need to write dozens of Dany chapters that feel obtuse but in the end need to exist to tell the story right.

>>25210780
It's not innocuous. You have an intuition for what "woke" means and what a woke publishing industry would be that you're intentionally pretending isn't there. I've now just explained it to you and I have no obligation to provide you examples of something that by definition would be extremely hard to find, nor is it necessary for understanding what I mean.

>three of the big AIs told me the middle section of my short story drags on and I could cut most of it to paragraph summaries
But them should I write nothing but summaries? How does that engage the reader?

>>25210805
>ask for book recommendations
>"reee fucking leftist scum etc etc"
Calm down. Nowhere did I even imply that woke "isn't there." What seems to not be there is your conception of what consistutes "non-woke literature" due to your repeated evasions.

>>25210810
If the glorified autocomplete said it, it must be true.

>>25210815
They also seek to really dislike elaborate prose. They prefer the sentences to be short and to the point, even if they have no rythm.

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Hey ppl I'd like to know whether this deserves to be further developed into either an audio drama or maybe even a story-driven vidya.
I've been writing this novel for the past few years and decided to do the audiobook myself not long after, as presented here: https://youtu.be/onKtEPy1U48
Issue is, while it's received SOME praise nobody in my circle has listened to it all the way through so far (it's 8 hours long)
TL;DR Opinions plz

>>25210762
Seems like an Okay method but I dunno how other anons here feel about it
But basically yes just know what the next thing you’re writing needs to accomplish both with literal actions and that essence you mention and reverse engineer from there

Barnes and Noble's publishing is raising the min price for physical books to be 15 dollars next month. Economy must truly be in the shitter if they have to minimize costs in this way. Not sure if any other book self publishing program are doing this.

Is it true that “show don’t tell” was originally said in reference to theme? If so, how did that advice morph into the catch-all advice it’s used as now? Are writers stupid?

>>25211398
in general you want to respect your readers instead of babying with them as the one thing people hate the most is disrespect. that's the whole idea of "show don't tell". even if someone doesn't get it right away it better than making them feel they are being treated like a 5 year old.

>>25211398
feel free to do the opposite then and see how it goes

>>25211327
sounds like more dominance for Amazon as usual. i'm selling my ebook for $0.99, paperback $5.99 and hardcover $12.99.

>>25211327
sounds like more dominance for Amazon as usual. i'm selling my ebook there for $0.99, paperback $5.99 and hardcover $12.99.

>>25211471
There used to be a point where making pocket sized books, size not length, with B&N was cheaper. They made it impossible to do now.