Did Hobbes write it as a cope? After seeing civil war?Seems like you can't really escape "anarchy" as long as humans are humans. Even in supposed democracies, there is always fighting between interest groups.
>>25210427*democraciesOr maybe I should put emphasis on dictatorship, as they would be much closer to "Leviathan", but in any case, in both sorts of political regimes you get groups fighting for power.
>>25210427>a copeIt seems like he just made a correct description based on personal experience and historical analysis.
>>25210431In a sense as a man who wanted to avoid civil wars, and thought this sort of despotic rule would prevent them? I can understand that, but I would still see it as a cope, because you can't really escape conflict forever, of interest groups, be it democratic parties or lobbyists or people whispering into despots ears.
>>25210433It isn't that despotic rule prevents civil wars, it's that all rule is despotic and civil wars are inevitable. By ruling in an openly "despotic" manner, you preempt any claim of hypocrisy and minimize the likelihood of civil war (though you can never prevent it entirely). If all rule is despotic, you can still prefer the wise and charitable despot to the stupid and sadistic one. Henry IV of France was better than Charles II of Spain even though neither was liberal or democratic.
>>25210427State of nature and social contract theory is just nominalist nonsense to justify the british crown built upon Jewish fairytales, i.e man's fallen nature after banishment from Eden. That man is rational insofar to he's able to come to mutually beneficial peace amongst individuals (much less that all men are born to families and communes) without a terrorizing sovereign demonstrates that Hobbes was huffing his own farts and had no real historical-anthropological basis. He even admits the state of nature is just a thought experiment with only lived examples supposedly being in 16th century native american societies, which is a hysterically broad generalization. Plato and especially Aristotles political theories mog Hobbes in every way, with Hobbes value being more in understanding the utter degeneracy the reformation caused and his justification for absolutist tyranny. Hobbes was a self admitted coward and this shows in the fact the only exception to the sovereign absolutist rule is his permission of subjects to refuse suicidal military orders on grounds to protect their right to life.
>>25210468Hobbes was a direct successor to Thucydides and Machiavelli. He was not a christcuck or a simple royalist like Filmer or de Maistre. The idea that Plato's political philosophy is any more logical than Hobbes is simply untrue.
>>25210474He absolutely was a christcuck and that shows in his first principle of the state of nature just being the state of man after the biblical fall, and the numerous chapters in Leviathan that concerns the state and religion. And Platos Laws are actually very grounded compared to the Transcendentally oriented Republic, and in one critical section prempts Hobbes in that good laws are needed insofar to tame the criminal side of man. That however is exclusive from the nonsense protestant-nominalist priori Hobbes works from. And again, Aristotle completely gapes Hobbes, and western civilization be better off memoryholing Hobbes and his bourgeois greedy tyrannical theories and plugging the gap with Aristotle again.
>>25210468>State of nature and social contract theory is just nominalist nonsense Look everyone another Milbank midwit who thinks it's profound social commentary to ascribe everything modern (and hence le bad) to 'nominalism'.
>>25210485Nominalism and its denial of universals and classical metaphysics was instrumental in both the unfolding of reformation philosophy, theology, and ultimately modern thought. Hobbes directly works from a priori of savage individuals under an atomistic-mechanical ontology that denies any relevant universals in essence, language, and truth, from which only the sovereign can fill the gap by prescribing positivist laws that reign absolutely. That's why the Leviathan is the artifical god, because it's mandate and laws are the new substitute for what used to be derived from classical natural right and divine reason. Nice ad hominem anyway.
>>25210497
>>25210497>>25210502Yes we have been hearing this exact same line from you guys for like eight years now. It's lazy and stupid, the history of western thought is more complicated than>Occam is... le bad!>the reformation is... le bad!>if essences aren't hypostasized then anything heckin' goes!!!!But it's wasted effort ultimately, you can't cure retarded people, especially trads. You don't know anything about philosophy or the Reformation, I'd bet my savings you have never read one work of the scholastic nominalists.
>>25210468>upon Jewish fairytales, i.e man's fallen nature after banishment from EdenAh, yes homo perfectus. Mankind is without flaws or so you say.
>>25210518Reddit level of pretentiousness and rhetoric that derails the topic by not advancing knowledge or debate. In no way do you even try to deal with or refute that Hobbes works upon a nominalist, Protestant foundation, its just pure seething about how I am irredeemably retarded. Go read Strauss and Gillespie and dont bother to respond till you read up for the first time in your life on what good faith is.>>25210555There's a difference between rrcognizing and working with the downsides of man vs assuming he's an a-social atom that will murder everyone and everything unless overawed by a sovereign-state tyrant, which all primitive social groupings and societies attest to otherwise.
