There's was a really interesting thread the other day where anons were discussing the best middlebrow books, and these three were the most commonly named. This is not my list by the way, haven't read any of these authors, I was just collecting the names, so don't shoot the messenger :^)Who would you add to the Mount Rushmore of midwit...sorry, middlebrow authors?
>>25216775>haven't read any of these authorsyeah, we fucking know
>Who would you add to the Mount Rushmore of midwit...sorry, middlebrow authors?you say don’t shoot the messenger but purposely make a provocative comment. What’s your real goal here? Oh wait… actually… never mind, I know it’s you, kill yourself weeb faggot.
Who is the guy on the left? Ive only read two pynchie books. They were good
>>25216793William Gaddis. The Recognitions, JR, ring a bell?
>>25216798Sounds familiar
>>25216775anon, for real, i don't even want to shit on you, i just want to talk. what happened? like, you used to post your anime pics in pynchon threads and i know everyone made fun of you because you seemed to not understand pynchon at all. but like, if you just kept trying you would understand him, others would help you, and you wouldn't have to do all this. just go back to doing that. i swear i won't even make fun of you. just stop making these threads.
>>25216775SCA-DI
>>25216806God… shut up about subahibi man
>>25216803The problem will be solved if people ignore him and make his threads good by engaging in actual discussion. But that requires ignoring him and other trolls and discussing literature, so I am not going to hold my breath.
I actually plan to begin Gravity’s Rainbow. Which is definitely out of the ordinary for me because the newest stuff I’ve read is modernist lit, and I mainly enjoy non fiction, philosophy (idealism mainly) and poetry (Miltonic and Shakespearean mostly) from the 17th to early 19th century. My favourite work in prose is probably Gargantua and Pantragruel. Tell me, considering my interests, how do you think I will find Pynchon’s novel, in the early parts? Is his prose as great as the ostensible insanity of the content in the novel? It appealed to me since I read about its surreal qualities, and Ubu Roi is one of my favourites due to its surrealism. I also enjoyed the nighttown chapter of Ulysses and the sort of nightmarish atmosphere of Petersburg.
>>25216884Majority of the surreal content is in part 4, first three parts only have the odd bit. The contrast between the dead serious heavy narration and more light hearted freewheeling dialogue gives a certain surreal quality to the early parts, G&P and Ubu Roi suggest a fair chance you will like it.
>>25216912I see, thanks for the info anon. I already understand that later in the book Slothrop’s personality and character within the novel is slowly “erased” from the story after a mental breakdown(?) of sorts. This part got me interested.
>>25216775Imagine being so pathetic that multiple people (>>25216803) know you as the most retarded poster in pynchon threads or the retarded anti-gaddis/pychong/dfw spammer. Get a fucking life dude or stick to your visual novel threads (yeah, we all know those are yours too).
>>25216957He might even be the most retarded poster on the board, but I also don’t think /lit/ is his most visited board, as I’ve suggested before.
>>25216966You're probably right. Mostly likely /a/ since he signs all his posts with anime pics.
>>25216884I think so. He seems to align well with your interests, both Gargantua and GR being classified as Menippean Satires under some scholarly frameworks. The most frustrating part about him is how his prose flip-flops from being dense, atmospheric and clearly the work of a brilliant stylist, to light slapstick. Ulysses even at its most experimental and surreal maintains its high tone, whimsy and linguistic experimentation, while Pynchon often reaches for the base and the obscene. Maybe not as hard as the Jason chapters of TSATF, they still read relatively well, but they offer a sharp contrast with the rest of the book. He'll work hard to establish the atmosphere of dread and paranoia, only to undermine it with:There was a young fellow named Yuri, Fucked the nozzle right up its venturi. He had woes without cease From his local police, And a hell of a time with the jury. He also wrote some legitimate poetry there, I really liked:Thus, reaching for some flower on my table, I know the cool mosaic of my room Begin its slow, inhibitory dissolve Around the bloom, the stimulus, the need That brighter burns, as brightness, quickly sucked From objects all around, now concentrates (Yet less than blinding), focuses to flame. Whilst there yet, in the room’s hypnotic evening, The others lurk—the books, the instruments, The old man’s clothes, an old gorodki stick, Glazed now but with their presences. Their spirits, Or memories I kept of where they were, Are canceled, for this moment, by the flame: The reach toward the frail and waiting flower… And so, one of them—pen, or empty glass— Is knocked from where it was, perhaps to roll Beyond the blank frontiers of memory… Yet this, be clear, is no “senile distraction,” But concentrating, such as younger men Can easily and laughing dodge, their world Presenting too much more than one mean loss— And out here, eighty-three, the cortex slack, Excitatory processes eased to cinders By Inhibition’s tweaking, callused fingers, Each time my room begins its blur I feel I’ve looked in on some city’s practice blackout (Such as must come, should Germany keep on That road of madness). Each light, winking out… Except at last for one bright, stubborn bloom The Wardens cannot quench. Or not this time. You might also enjoy the Crying of Lot 49. It's much shorter and deals with a Jacobean plays, complete with a description/pastiche of one. But I didn't think much of it other than "yeah, it's pretty good", it's only when I read V./GR that I realised Pynchon might be one of my favourites.And thanks for the Ubu Roi recommendation, I loved Circe and surrealism in general. From my side, I can recommend Berlin Alexanderplatz (Berlin, Petersburg and Ulysses often being lumped together as modernist "city novels").
>>25216966>>25216971>>25216957Don't you think you're taking it a little too far? He's clearly on the spectrum and he probably uses this board as an outlet for the frustrations he has in his daily life. Also, this board is literally modeled after a Japanese website and was clearly meant to be a weeb site originally.
>>25216951That whole loss of identity idea is pretty much a modernist interpretation of GR and a good example of why it is the most well known and widely read post modern novel short of the fun and easy sorts like Vonnegut; GR is very accessible and you can interpret it as realist, naturalist or modernist and probably even surrealist (I am not well enough versed in surrealism to attempt that) and you will come away with something cohesive, you won't have the full picture and will be confused about many things but style and content make that confusion work in its favor.It is written in the present tense and one of the few works which effectively use the present tense; it alternates between narrative used to pass time and dialogue with minimal narration, the narrative is sort of like Hardy at his most bleak and serious with the dialogue being more like Tristam Shandy where even the serious is not all that serious. It gives a definite surreal quality but it is not surrealist surreal, at least not until part 4.John Hawkes is the post modernist I would recommend for someone who loves surrealism and probably the closest the post modernists ever came to producing a surrealist. He is often called nightmarish but he is not the horror movie sort of nightmare, more the something is off and I can't quite put my finger on it but I really don't like it and it is making me very uncomfortable sort of nightmare. He might be a little too postmodern for your tastes but if you like Tristam Shandy and a surreal nightmare version appeals to you, he has short works like The Lime Twig that would apply and his post modernism does not go much further than anything that Sterne already did. Given what you read, I don't think you will enjoy Lot 49 despite what that other anon says, but that might just be my distaste for it, no clue.
>>25217182Thanks anon, this is a great post. The Mennipean satire tradition found in G&P is the genre at what I believe to be its summit. The way Rabelais parodies the intellectualism and philosophical discourse of the time, while also displaying great knowledge thereof rather than just being anti-intellectual is the essence of mennipean satire to me. From my understanding, Pynchon does something similar but with a sort of picaresque structure and its — as you mention — juxtaposition between dense, technological writing and lowbrow slapstick humour. I’m aware that the book is chock full of obscenity and absurdity though, but still, Rabelais handled that well himself with the carnivalesque , so I’m excited to see how Pynchon handles it, even if you say it can ruin(?) it with frivolous humour. But, from the excerpt you sent, I can see that he is actually pretty skilled! It’s good blank verse, with great rhythm! Thanks for the other Pynchon rec, I’ll definitely give them a look into, I didn’t know he was into the Jacobean stuff himself so TCLO49 sounds in some ways, even more enticing than GR. mason and Dixon looked sort of interesting too but I haven’t really looked into it much. Oh and as for Berlin Alexanderplatz, I’ve been meaning to read that for a WHILE. I watched the miniseries by Fassbinder some years back and found it to be absolutely amazing, Biberkopf is an amazing, tragic character too.And yeah, Ubu Roi is pretty brilliant, Jarry is sort of proto-modern, “evil” version of Rabelais and a satire of a lot of conventions in plays up to that point. I won’t say too much but I hope you like it!
>>25216775Off the top of my head: Kerouac, McCarthy, Martin Amis, Franzen, Dostoevsky
>>25217240Here's the opening sentence of M&D. It should be apparent how different it is from the rest of his work:>Snow-Balls have flown their Arcs, starr'd the Sides of Outbuildings, as of Cousins, carried Hats away into the brisk Wind off Delaware,— the Sleds are brought in and their Runners carefully dried and greased, shoes deposited in the back Hall, a stocking'd-foot Descent made upon the great Kitchen, in a purposeful Dither since Morning, punctuated by the ringing Lids of various Boilers and Stewing-Pots, fragrant with Pie Spices, peel'd Fruits, Suet, heated Sugar, — the Children, having all upon the Fly, among rhythmic slaps of Batter and Spoon, coax'd and stolen what they might, proceed, as upon each afternoon all this snowy Advent, to a comfortable Room at the rear of the House, years since given over to their carefree Assaults. Some people say it's Pynchon at his best and I'm excited to read it.
>>25217226>He might be a little too postmodern for your tastes but if you like Tristam Shandy and a surreal nightmare version appeals to you, he has short works like The Lime Twig that would apply and his post modernism does not go much further than anything that Sterne already did.I do like the sound of that, I’m also not averse to postmodernism, it’s just something I haven’t had much experience in reading as of yet. Oh and >He is often called nightmarish but he is not the horror movie sort of nightmare, more the something is off and I can't quite put my finger on it but I really don't like it and it is making me very uncomfortable sort of nightmare.Is exactly the kind of thing I enjoy haha, that’s partly the reason I’m venturing into GR, though I know it’s apparently less like a nightmare and more depressing maybe? I’m still unsure. But I heard about the Sterne influence in GR and that’s also one of the things that drawn me to it. I’ll definitely look into John Hawkes after I’ve checked out some of Pynchon’s works, he sounds really appealing, thanks a lot anon! The other postmodernists like Vonnegut and the like, I’m familiar with them but I haven’t really been drawn to them in any way. I get the feeling when you say that even at its most serious it’s not all that serious, that perhaps it’s so “outrageous” that it’s almost hard to take it seriously? Anyway, I won’t ask too much more about it, I’ll just jump in when I can. And as for Lot 49, I’ll give it a try anyway, I guess we’ll see lol
>>25217257Looks enticing also, I read that Sterne’s influence here is ubiquitous in this book.
>>25217204Yeah but anon, I’m an autistic weeb too but I kinda like talking about literature first and foremost on the literature board. Plus, despite being a sperg weeb I still try to refrain from exhibiting the level of retardation of OP.
>>25217260Pynchon is ultimately a historian and what makes GR and all of his work depressing is the same thing that makes the work of a historian depressing, that simple, logical and objective view of our present. >>25217268M&D is the only place we can really see Sterne influence, it is pretty much Tristam Shandy + 18th century travel lit. It is no different than any other Pynchon, it just seems different because it is so far removed from the ~125 year time period the rest of his work is set in; a big part of his style is pastiche of the popular culture of the time period the work is set in.
>>25217257It insists upon itselfIt's clearly produced by nobody who has any experience with 18th century literature.
He insists upon himselfHis posts clearly written by nobody who has any awareness of anything.
>>25217342To accept Pynchon as a quality writer is to garb yourself in a coat of hot pockets and video games and then writhe around on the ground in a supermarket while screeching and slapping yourself on the sides of your head.He is cheeto dust. Nothing more.Nothing more than a hack, a useful tool for publishers to trot out to say "Hey, we're making literary fiction!" I cannot wrap my head around the adulation he receives, let alone the wide praise this has got. The book trudges from set piece to set piece, leaves us no real questions or anything to think about really.The same bullet that kills a Foster Wallace fan will also kill the Pynchon and Delillo fan. They come from the same root, from the same doritos stained console. They are frauds, and as a warrior of literature it's my duty to expose the fakes and the inauthentic when I see them. I will fight with crawls and teeth until the last imposter is fallen to the groundI have about as much respect for Thomas Pynchon as I do for the dogshit on my shoe. It is reddit. It is video game hot pocket. It is capeshit. It is cheeto dust. I'm literally screaming right now and slamming my arms down on my desk just thinking about it.It is the most depraved video game infantilized manchild degeneracy. It is saturday morning cartoon. It is non-neurotypicality. It is memes. It is video game. It is tarantino. It is imdb.It is coca-cola puberty. it is axe body spray. it is a white stain on boxer shorts. it is arri alexa hot dog caffeine on disney channel.Pynchon is a miserable hack whose movies are propped up entirely by reddit meme writing which gets the r/literature and r/truelit pleb crowd all hot and bothered. It is the death knell of Literature. One of the biggest trashmasters working today, a hack's hack. This is hot pocket the writer. Cheeto dust: the man.His books are a bad joke; an insult to the literary medium; a gob of spit aimed at all that is good and great about literature. Another polished postmodern gritty popcorn writer.
>>25217352Yeah post it again, it’s sure to be funny this time faggot.The other one is actually funny though the “yukyukyuk” one. Anyway, back to /vn/ you fucking loser.
>>25216884Read lot 49 first
>>25217182pynchon is a shit stylist
>>25217419nah
>>25217429No, he is. It's like reading one of those 19th century young men who wanted to be poets but churned out shit.
I would say Hemingway and at a stretch, Fitzgerald. Oh, and Salinger. Maybe also Orwell?
interesting thread
>>25217997>SalingerHave you read anything by him that wasn't catcher?
