>all the means for developing production turn into different ways to dominate and exploit the producer; these means deform the worker, making him into a partial human being, leaving him degraded, a mere appendage of the machine; they also destroy the substance of labor as they recast his work as torture; they alienate the worker from the intellectual powers needed for the labor process, doing so in proportion to the extent to which science is incorporated into that process as an independent power; and they make the circumstances in which the worker works more and more abnormal, subject him to a hateful, supremely petty despotism during the labor process, turn his lifetime into labor-time, and thrust his wife and children under the wheels of the juggernaut that is capital. But all the methods for producing surplus-value are also methods for bringing about accumulation, and every time accumulation increases, this is, at the same time, a means of further developing those very methods. It follows that however well or poorly a worker is paid, his situation becomes worse in proportion to capital’s accumulation. Finally, the law that always maintains the equilibrium between the relative surplus population (or industrial reserve army) and the extent and energy of accumulation welds the worker to capital more tightly than Hephaestus’s wedges bound Prometheus to the rock. This law requires an accumulation of misery that corresponds to the accumulation of capital. So the accumulation of wealth on one side of the capital relation is simultaneously the accumulation of misery, torturous labor, slavery, ignorance, brutality, and moral degradation on the opposite side, where we find the class whose own product is produced as capital.https://youtu.be/cgLWE-HLw1o
The first part is nonsense, but the rest is correct. And given that tools for increased productivity make it easier to separate a worker from their work product and therefore extract wealth, I at least understand the motive for shitting on them, even if the reasoning given is poetic nonsense.
>>25230504Why do you think the first part is nonsense, that as technology and the means of production advance, they are used to exert a tighter and tighter control over labor? We don't even have to talk about social media or cellphones, just consider security cameras
>>25230508>Why do you think the first part is nonsenseBecause it presupposes that fulfillment comes from difficulty of labor and that tools to reduce the effort or skill needed to accomplish work alienate workers from their labor. And just talk to any fucking artist if you believe that nonsense.To be clear, the problem is not that work is made easier. The problem is that when work is made easier, more work is assigned to extract more value from a worker's time.The only minor point I'll give him in that section is that tools to make work easier can in certain contexts be argued for in a way that presents an activity someone might take fulfillment from as unnecessary suffering. As if things need to be made easier because the labor in its entirety is a negative experience.And also that convenience can make shit doable with less mental faculties. But that's not actually a bad thing. I for one am glad I don't have to memorize prayers of particular lengths to cook shit anymore because fucking timers exist. Don't be a gatekeeping bastard.
>>25230526>Because it presupposes that fulfillment comes from difficulty of labor and that tools to reduce the effort or skill needed to accomplish work alienate workers from their labor.He isn't suggesting that at all. He is saying technological advancement that should make production easier is used to extort a greater and greater portion of labor's wealth, even if they are "paid well" (materially better than before) and to more and more strictly regiment them
>>25230530>they also destroy the substance of labor as they recast his work as torture
>>25230536Right, they increase his alienation from his work. Not because they make it easier, but because they alienate more and more of his labor. His work does NOT get easier, he is expected to input just as much labor but the greater multiplier means the labor alienated from him is a larger and larger portion
>>25230536The torture is that they are not laboring for their own benefit. Instead of cleaning your own home and enjoying that accomplishment, you have cleaned another person's home and you come home to your own, which is filthy because you haven't had time to clean it and now you are too tired because you have cleaned someone else's. That is alienation.
>>25230542That is your wife's responsibility.
>>25230547Wrong, it's yours
>>25230550Housework is woman's work. It always has been and it always will be.
>>25230552Your wife is a man?
>>25230552All proletarian work is an outgrowth of promitive woman's work. The working class coincides with the women's class the primitive. Basket weaving (manufacture, production), beasts of burden (trucking, warehouse work, freight, dockhands), gathering (agriculture), and so on.
fully rebutted in lowercase by marl karx.
>>25230542Nobody labors for their own benefit, they labor for survival. Survival is necessary for life but people need more out of life than mere survival.
>>25230619>Survival is necessary for lifestunning insight. someone get this man a substack!
>>25230619People labor for more than survival which is part of their own benefit. But in capitalism more and more of their labor is purely for another's benefit and excludes them as human, they function as a robot.
damn i didn't know marx was so emotional
>>25230632Marxism equally influenced by the two 19th-Century outlooks: scientific revolution like Darwin and materialist objectivity, and romanticism and the celebration of the common man as the hero of history
>>25230623You missed the main point of the argument but good enough I guess
>>25230630My main issue with this kind of thought process automatically assumes that different modes of production assume greater freedom for the individual or society but instead reproduce the same kinds of constraint through different terminology.
>>25230482Weaponized Envy, stemming from fall of the role of religion in society. Any religion really. A society that does not value a religion chooses Marxism, the relativism/nihilism to fill the gap. The relativism applied to human emotion is just envy.
>>25230980You have no idea what you are talking about. It's like reading a random jumble of words that have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure it somehow makes sense in your head
>>25230989You are godless and you embrace obsession with material things to fill that void.
>>25230989It is what it is. Marxism is envy of others, relative to your own standing. Envy of their status. Their wealth. Their beauty. Their achievements. Their job. Their education. Their intellect. Their property. Their family. Their prosperity.
>>25230989he makes perfect sense and you're being obtuse (like every leftist)
>>25230989All you faggots worry about is money and how much you hate and want to kill anyone who has more than you. Bugmen, all ou you.
>>25230992>>25230993>>25230996>>25231001Lmao what's with the emotional breakdown. Next time don't type words about things you don't know anything about and you won't be called out.
>>25230989Kek, this post really triggered the midwits
>>25231010>>25231011kek samefag
Truth be told, Marxism would be cool if it wasn't leftist, like just take all the good elements of marxism and leave out all of the lame stuff
>>25231013Every accusation is a confession, ain't it eh midwit?
>>25230504lol capitalist bro thinks he has a valid opiniondont forget this is the side he thinks is correct: So the accumulation of wealth on one side of the capital relation is simultaneously the accumulation of misery, torturous labor, slavery, ignorance, brutality, and moral degradation on the opposite side
>>25230504What even is productivity. How do you define it.
>>25230980this guy has a grindr account and a wife
>>25231022Technological advancement + globalization
>>25230963It assumes more advanced kinds of production multiply the power of labor, and that as labor gets louder and louder, so to speak, capitalism takes a higher and higher share. So the worker has less and less of a portion of his labor, EVEN when his real wages increase for periods, because that increase will never be in proportion to advancement multiplying his labor, although the trend for some time now, at least in the west, is a decline in real wages
>>25230482>Thoughts?https://x.com/i78i9/status/2047377838387397041
>>25230504Why do leftards always post that fake graph...You guys are retarded and sloppy
>>25231127Actually my graph is better.
>>25231133Because it's propaganda that serves your purpose and doesn't prove anything?We knowLying is leftist virtue
>>25231127How much of a boomer do you have to be to think real wages have been rising
>>25231140How much of an unemployed retard do you have to be to not understand that wages are not the only source of income from workers, and that your graph doesn't measure all workers....It's pretty clear what your major was in college, it certainly wasn't math or finance
>>25231140if u add the health care included in compensation packages so big fatties can get their free ozempic shots, yeah, total compensation goes up
>>25231148If we add the fact most of you guys don't work and receive SSDI to post here all day, it goes up a lot
>>25231135Because my penis is bigger than yours. Sorry, it's science.
>>25231145 >>25231148 Healthcare in America is not provided by the employer, the employee pays for it. The reason it is much better to get healthcare through your employer is because large employers negotiate deals for their employees collectively.Obesity in America is an important business, because it is based on marketing very cheaply produced food which is highly addicting. But it is NOT because of medical expenses. Actually very fat people are lifetime-wise cheaper to care for, due to shorter life expectancy. Obese laborers are statistically going to love through a much shorter period of their retirement which is when the system has to give back to them and medical treatment is so expensive. Thus healthy food is marketed primarily to the ruling class who desire to preserve their longevity and enjoy their retirement
>>25231170>Healthcare in America is not provided by the employer, the employee pays for it.This isn't even true. The ACA mandates employers pay for healthcare insurance, and plenty of people in the US get free healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid paid for by actual workers. You would know this, but you don't, because you don't work and file federal taxes. You would if you actually did.
It's amazing how easy it is to point out how unemployed someone is when they can't even get basic information correct. Information they would know they filed taxes before lolThis dude doesn't even know how healthcare works in the US because he doesn't even workcommies are so dumb
>>25231177The ACA mandates no such thing and I do work, which you obviously do not. It requires major employers to negotiate contracts for all employees to buy healthcare, which is deducted from their paycheck if they do. Employees who want to get in on company healthcare have to pay for it and it isn't cheap and is becoming less affordable every year>plenty of people in the US get free healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid paid for by actual workersNot helping your argument that real wages are going up
>>25231184>The ACA mandates no such thing and I do work,No you don't, you didn't even know how Medicare and Medicaid works in the U.S. You don't even know how the ACA works and you probably don't even now ACA means. You're that dumb and unemployed. Blatantly lying about something debunked by a SIMPLE search of IRS.gov because you're retarded.Get a fucking job and stop wasting peoples' time on the internet with stupidity. Nothing you write is worth reading or responding to.
>>25231192Why are you posting pictures about the IRS? Under the ACA, when you file taxes, whether or not you get health insurance is part of the questions. An employee who makes over x and doesn't buy health insurance is penalized by the federal government UNLESS his employer has not contracted a health insurance deal for his employees, which larger employers are legally mandated to do under the ACAMedicaid has nothing to do with this.I work over forty hours a week
>>25230482how is the binding on the hardcover version of this edition
>>25231252I read it on kindle so I can't say
>>25230482
>woke book with a trad songnot buying it
>>25231206>I work over forty hours a weekNo, you don't. You don't know anything do you?
>>25230482And?
>>25231295>>25231292>>25231290The poster you're responding to is far more likely to be a jewish lolbert than a national-socialist.
>>25232038Any way to get rid of these types?
>>25231183Why does the IRS insist you get the amount owed correct, won't tell you and then penalizes you if you get it wrong? Sounds counterproductive, desu.
>>25232038Ideologically, at the root, they're lobbies for the same thing, hence libertarian-Natsoc pipeline and ideas of alliance are so common. The major split between left and right "socialists" in Germany during and after WWI, is that Marxist socialist saw WWI as completely pointless and just a war that benefitted bankers and finance and capitalist which proles had to die for. But right socialists saw it as an expressionism of patriotism and hated left socialists for opposing the war, since they believed it contributed to German demoralization. The primary and first duty of any Marxist party in power is to prevent the proletariat from getting dragged into the meat grinder for wars that have jack shit to do with them. Lenin laid out this foreign policy decisively in writing. Pointless wars are the most costly and burdensome aspect of capitalism. Yet many right-wing libertarians have a "lost cause" outlook regarding WWI that sympathizes with Germany, including Hoppe. Today influential mainstream libertarians like Milei love American wars. Even Paul Gottfried, the best friend of Rothbard, who considers himself a paleoconservative or paleolibertarian, praised Trump getting involved in Iran. Both libertarians and Nazis want people to die for capitalism, they just quibble ober when and where
>>25230482Really good description of early industrial capitalism. Some of the problems he described were solved (ltv supplanted by marginalism), some persist (trpf), and some he was just wrong on (alienation as a capitalist phenomenon and not an industrial one) interesting stuff but pretty outdated imho. people who are really into it are fighting yesterdays war today. read foucault.
>>25230482Marx is super based once you deprogram yourself of the anti communist propaganda that was instilled into you by your femaile 1st grade elementary teacher.
>>25232102>kill people and take their shitSounds very niggerish. Shan't be associating with that.
>>25232110It's that American foreign policy?
>>25232110Go read capitals v.1 sections on primarive accumulation, capitalism is literally nothing more that the modern industrial means of production owned by a class of kleptocrats who stole all the lands and resources and murdered everyone who got in the way and dispossessed everyone else into either destitution or early industrial quasi serfdom.
>>25232110>t. Hasn't been deprogrammed of the anti-communist propaganda instilled into them by their female 1st grade elementary teacher
>>25232121Lol schizo.
>>25231025In that order?
>>25232121So why when communists got into power they stole all the lands and resources, murdered everyone who got in their way, and disposessed everyone into destitution or quasi serfdom?
>>25232162Because they deserved it?
>>25232162Most farmers had tilled their land under collectivization every since serfdom was abolished in the 19th Century since the land was not portioned to private families but to villages
>>25232088The pipeline exists for people who were vaguely against the current government but then found out libertarians didn't worship race enough and didn't hate jews enough and realized they couldn't enact their power fantasies without statism. On the other hand socialism is ideologically at it's root authoritarian, which is why Hitler, an authoritarian, admired Stalin, another authoritarian. It's why Hitler was a communist before becoming natsoc and it's why Mussolini was a socialist before becoming a fascist.
>>25232176Being collectively owned by a village is different from being collectively owned by the entire state.
>>25231206holy retardationyou know you’re only paying a fraction of the required premium, right? it feels like you don’t. that’s what the other retard is trying to explain to you. your employer typically covers more than 80 percent of the premium for self only coverage and more than 70 percent for a family plan. that’s why the real compensation chart tracks net output per hour. it’s factored in.>>25232090>(alienation as a capitalist phenomenon and not an industrial one)it baffles me how this point goes over so many people’s heads.
>>25232211Hitler was about militarization which is a bit more precise and meaningful as a term. >>25232232That's a powerful observation, you should tweet it
>>25232273You sound raped.
>>25232280You would know, do you still masturbate to memories of your dad assfucking you? It would explain your infatuation with capitalism
>>25231022Its just how much you earn for the shareholder, and in this case its across the economy.A small part of this is that instead of taking out a decent wage as chief of whatever, in this economy you ideally take it ut as a stock option for that small small tax bonus. That is 1-2% on that chart.>>25232267>>25232090>alienation In the 1930s a speculative fiction book would be written about the topic, that successfully scarred many of its readers. Centered around a Shakespear quote, its a Brave New World.On what it would actually take for society to survive having 100% alienaiton in exchange for goods and services?More interestingly, there was several movies made in the late 90s centered around capitalist alienation, and some of them where written and made before the fall of the Berlin Wall.While modernity by industrialization is to partially blame for it, there is a reason why Marx focuses on ownership, which means its completely apt despite its blindside. And it might even be written about the owning/aristocracies class, and what its like to have an entire family completely alienated from the economy, but against obligations of ownership and reproduction.
>>25232176>what were the Stolypin reformsYou really are completely full of shit, aren't you?Most commies are schizos, but you're just making up your reality as you go along.
>>25232602The Russian analogue to the English abolishing the commons, and an utter disaster since where each parcel of private property began and ended was completely arbitrary. The idea was to undermine class-identity and cohesion
>>25230482>all the means for developing production turn into different ways to dominate and exploit the producer; these means deform the worker, making him into a partial human being, leaving him degraded, a mere appendage of the machineDude that's crazy, but what if capital lead to machines that made the job easier and did not require slaves?But let me guess, that is LE bad too.How many people died of starvation under communism again?Also>Capital relation is simultaneously the accumulation of misery, torturous labor, slavery, ignorance, brutality, and moral degradation on the opposite side, where we find the class whose own product is produced as capital.So it was correct when this was done under feudal lords because there was no capital involved only a sword to the chest?>>25230508>they are used to exert a tighter and tighter control over labor?For the most part technology prioritizes production and starvation was gradually resolved through it.Not 100 years ago Europe faced frequent starvation.Also, fun fact: Unions predate Marx seething and both him and Engels were middle class at the time.He was more or less Hasan Piker. Today he would had been a fucking Twitch Streamer preaching the same shit.
>>25231290>>25231292>>25231295Crazy that the wholesome chungus socialists left paid for all those uniforms and funded these groups.Almost as if the left could not sustain their ideology without inventing an enemy.
>>25233393Just like the right paid for the new left?
