there must be a musicologist or philosopher out there whose big thing is that The Flying Dutchman is actually the most complex and revolutionary and profound of all Wagner's works.

Are you ranking the Librettos or the Operas themselves.

>>25233497
Parsifal needs to go down. Tristan needs to go up. Siegfried needs to go up. Gotterdammerung needs to go up.

Parsifal is probably the best example of Mark Twain's crack "Wagner has wonderful moments but awful quarters-of-an-hour". I think it was Mark Twain anyway.


~


“Can you have dinner Thursday night?” Simon asked. Jim was in Atlanta. “It will be very late. Have a sandwich or something before. I’ll pick you up at seven. Don’t ask where we’re going. It will be a surprise.” The surprise was a five-hour performance of Parsifal. This implied a misunderstanding so profound that I kept looking at Simon from time to time to see whether he meant it as a shaggy-dog sort of joke. Mostly, he was asleep. Whenever he woke up, he was so evidently happy to be there, at that interminable spectacle in that vast auditorium with too few aisles. He would grin. I would grin. He would go back to sleep. The worst part, I think, comes near the end, when the hermit sings to Parsifal about how wonderful it is that Parsifal has brought the Spear, which will, after so many years, relieve the suffering of Amfortas, the Fisher King. The aria itself lasts many years. One is aware of Amfortas, waiting in pain, while this long-winded hermit and Parsifal exchange congratulations and amenities. Narrative conventions do make it quite impossible for them to bring the king the Spear, and then, when he is no longer in pain, sing on about their sympathy for him, in all those years, and their great gladness that a remedy is at hand. The whole magic of a plot requires that somebody be impeded from getting something over with. Yet there one is, with an emotional body English almost, wishing that pole-vaulter over his bar, wanting something to happen or not to happen, wishing somebody well. Amfortas was not even on stage. In fact, there was no Amfortas. Yet, more than I wished that I were elsewhere, more than I wished that the opera were over, I did wish that they would bring that king his Spear. When it was over, Simon, who is really a musician, woke up, cheered, applauded. He is also chief resident in surgery at a city hospital. When he isn’t on call, he studies voice. “Wasn’t it wonderful,” he said.

— Renata Adler, ‘Speedboat'

Wagner was the genesis of modern Hollywood music, I don't care for him.

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>>25233500
Maybe, but the problem is that Parsifal actually IS the most complex if you look at it objectively. It kind of feels like Wagner was approaching 70 and decided to braindump everything he could in his final work.

>>25233497
for me, it's
1. Lohengrin
2. Götterdämmerung
3. Das Rheingold

and after that i basically only know the overtures (have seen the rest of The Ring tho)

>>25233622
the syberberg parsifal is so good. feel like peter jackson's lotr art department stole all their ideas from it.

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>>25233500
there is but I'm not going to doxx myself on 4chan.

Tristan and Isolde is my fav by far, the duet in the second act is unreal.

>>25233736
Tristan is the best stand-alone work although the 2nd act uses so blatantly the rhythms of sex that the original audiences were correct to say it's verging on the obscene.

>>25233772
Allegedly the original score indicates that they simultaneously ejaculate together seven times during the duet.

Anyway for me it‘s:

1. Tristan Und Isolde
2. Die Walküre
3. Siegfried
4. Tannhäuser
5. Das Rheingold
6. Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
7. Götterdämmerung
8. Der Fliegende Holländer
9. Parsifal
10. Lohengrin

Though desu his first three works are not so inferior that they don‘t deserve to be ranked. I‘d put Rienzi just below Meistersinger, Das Liebesverbot under Holländer, and Die Feen under Parsifal.

>>25233772
>>25233894
Huh, can you guys elaborate on this.

>>25233497
1. Parsifal
2. Tannhauser
3. The ring
4. Meistersinger
5. Lohengrin
6. Tristan

So many great ones though.

>>25233497
I think Wagner was an incredibly talented composer but German is simply too ugly of a language for opera. Isolde sounds like a fucking demon.

>>25235628
>German is simply too ugly of a language for opera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVyRpb3BBCk
You were saying?

>>25233497
haven't listened to Parsifal or Meistersinger yet but for me (mostly the music)
1. Tristan
2. Walkyrie
3. Götterdämmerung
4. Tannhauser
5. Lohengrin
6. Flying Dutchman
7. Rheingold
8. Siegfried

>>25233497
1. meistersinger
2. siegfried
3. tristan
4. parsifal
5. rheingold
6. walkure
7. gotterdammerung
8. lohengrin
9. tannhauser
10. hollander

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>>25233736
my man, i love the duet way more than liebestod, that build up, that first part of brangaine and then the crescendo and brangaine comes crashing in again for half a minute lord have mercy, everything comes together there, when i heard it for the first time in my life i felt things i rarely feel from art, everytime i hear it i get goosebumps. Its just perfect gesamtkunst. Especially the love duet, its one of the most perfect pieces of art to exist in my humble subjective opinion

>>25233497
Give reasons for each: why have you liked each and everyone of them.

>>25233497
For me it's Das Rheingold and Meistersinger. I have not read the rest.

The rankings itt are all over the place. Seems like there is absolutely no common ground between the taste of Wagnerians.

>>25235947
Lol same here

>>25233497
I found Götterdämmerung disappointing as fuck t.b.h.
I was totally hyped for Alberich leading an army of the Nibelungen to overthrow the gods. Instead we get this sordid, petty little plot about Siegfried being tricked into betraying Brünnhilde.
It's a pitiful anticlimax.

>>25236906
maybe read the Nibelungenlied itself before wishing for some capeshit spectacle.

>>25233922
This is a based list

>>25236906
The finale is amazing though, basically an apocalypse in musical form.
>>25237088
Well lol, the Illiad is capekino and it's a classic.

>>25233899
+2

>>25233497
>Parsifal
>Tristan und Isolde
>Lohengrin
Why did Germans love British mythology so much?

>>25237892
*Anglo-Saxon* you fucktard. never post here again you absolute nigger.

>>25237892
It's French mythology you idiot.

I wish his operas weren't that boring

>>25237882
I can‘t really elaborate on my part regarding the orgasms except to say it‘s been claimed by Virgil Thomson.

>>25233500
Came here to say this. Fliegende Hollander is his best opera.