The Cartesian argument is the dumbest shit I have ever wasted my time on.>dude God lmaocome the fuck on
People underestimate how fucking primitive people were before the 19th century. Barely even people desu.
>>25244128Should have spent your time researching Cartesian wells instead, numbnuts
>>25244128Behead all frogposters
>>25244132>t.
>>25244128well in the Meditations he assumes that the nature of "things in the world", the farther from God they are, the less perfect we assume them to be. Unlike Plato, he does not divide them into a neat word of "forms" and the "visible world" but rather degrees of separation between them, rather than posit it a dichotomous manner. this is quite similar to how Kant had a distinction between the "phenomenal" world of perception and the inaccessible "noumenal" world, which I've written many a word upon the relations between the two.
>>25244132Are we any different? We still have the vices that get pressed and then we abandon strife with drugs and sex and other forms of escapism to avoid this world
>>25244128It's Anselm's argument (God as the highest thought possible thinking everything else) but worded in an enlightenment era rationalist way which hinges on the word perfection. He was trying to format Anselm again in a new way to make it less scholastic, I guess you could say.
>>25244128Well, how can you trust your senses and prove that the external world is real?
>>25244128If you really think about it then Meditations is just St Anselm's Prosologeion but the God is changed from the Biblical God to a vague Deist concept of God who wouldn't lie to you but also isn't really involved in Earth's existence.
>>25244132Thankfully you'll die of peak oil and the world will never have to deal with smug sanctimonious faggots like you ever again.
>>25244132Yeah I'm sure you're more human than a person from 500 years ago tending his crops and animals and not having his brain pumped with misanthropic nonsense from mentally ill shitposters, that you're more civilized than the people who built the foundations of civilization. Get a grip you dumb faggot.
>>25245440I thought it was St. Augustine
>>25244128the cartesian argument is God exists because im too perfect to of been made by my parents
>>25244128What's funny to me is that Berkeley dismisses noumena-phenomena correspondence using the exact same "dude God lmao" argument that Descartes uses to affirm it. He claims that since noumena are unnecessary for our subjective experiences (as proved by dreams etc.) and since God in His wisdom would not create pointless things, noumena are unlikely to exist
I think therefore I am.I didn't decide to think or be therefore there's a higher power."Thinking" encompasses all perception and scientific observations, everything comprehensible.
>still filters retards in you're path
>>25244128>getting filtered by Des CartesJust give up philosophy bro
>>25245998>t. reads isolated quotes instead of actual works
>>25244128descartes was a colossal masturbator, not like todays men who masturbate because women tease them but in the older sense of masturbation out of short sighted paradoxical greed that makes you go blind and grow hair on your palms. his ideas were made of laziness and romanticism> And particularly it seems not clear, why God may not as well be Immutable, tho' he should sometimes vary the Quantity of Motion that he has put into the World, as He is, tho', according to the Opinion of most of the Cartesians themselves, he does daily create multitudes of Rational Souls, to unite them to Human Bodies: Especially considering, that these newly created substances, are, according to Des-Cartes, endow'd with a power, to determine and regulate the motions of the Spirits and the Conarion; which are things clearly Corporeal, I say not this, as if I absolutely rejected the Cartesian Doctrine, about the continuance of the same Quantity of Motion in the whole Mass of Matter. For, whether or no it be a Truth; I think 'tis no unuseful nor improbable Hypothesis: And I have not so much argued against it, as upon the Grounds, on which they argue for it.- t. boyle
>>25246546that post is, however, within the genre of cartesian philosophy
>>25246903>his ideas were made of laziness and romanticismliteral midwit pedestrian commentary who could equally apply to any philosopher misunderstood in the eyes of an untrained mindyou also quote boyle who heavily relies on cartesian success in the sciences.
>>25247250descartes is a rich trans girl who just turned 18. on his onlyfans he says, im going to close this door and no ones going to kick it down except the police but theyre democrats and im rich. then he starts masturbating for 100 pages saying i think therefore i am and i know God exists because im too perfect to of been made by my parents. serious descartes fans buy his autographed i think therefore i am pangolin dildo to put on their shelf, it doesnt do anything unless you want to shove it up your butt but it looks cool having been made of silicone and leds
>>25247393i see you're a debauched subhuman fatass who not only is incapable of attaining wisdom but justifies his own unlearnedness through the uncharitable dismissal of ideas. the image i form of you is almost as grotesque as the ones you write. beauty is sealed off to ugly faggots: the knower must resemble the known as the greeks believed.
>>25245999>animals are unthinking stage props essentially created by God for men to play with even though men are just props to god> God is real because he is perfect and to exist is a quality of perfection which he couldnt lack if he were real so he is real>the pineal gland combines mind and matter and the senses are just being sent into it somehow? Hylomorphism solved soul vs matter a whole lot better but I want you to dump out 2000 years of philosophy for no reason
>>25245721No, I meant the famous Anselm ontology which Descartes basically takes and applies to a deist conception of God who is perfect but doesn’t watch over or control the world. Basically Anselmian ontology but throw out all the Scholasticism elements.
>>25247533you never read the discourse on method
>>25247544I have actually.
>>25247558then your first line is disingenuousyour second one is a strawman from the argument in the meditationsthe third one is not incidental to the cohesion of descartes' metaphysics and you got it from bad interpreters of the history of philosophy like bertrand russell
>dualism beats monism because fire is warm and it hurts to touch so that means I personally couldnt have created it
>>25247562The only thing you’re correct about is the pineal gland. That is something mentioned more in secondary lit that iirc isn’t directly addressed in Meditations or Discourse. Substance Dualism still Sux tho
>>25247567>dualism beats monismIt's another episode of manchild retard who reads the history of philosophy like a battle of Marvel superheroes.
>>25247572The specific argument that fire being hot and hurting me means it was created somehow outside of me is entirely fallacious regardless of personal opinion on the topic.
TIL Descartes was actually a Monist.>>And although the ideas which I receive by the senses do not depend on my will, I did not think that one should for that reason conclude that they proceeded from things different from myself, since possibly some faculty might be discovered in me -- though hitherto unknown to me -- which produced them
It is just poorly written, fallacious, enlightenment era doo-doo. Go back to the ancients instead of relying on this perverse Frenchman.
>>25244260>drugs and sex and other forms of escapism to avoid this worldaddiction and fornication is avoidance of the world. married sex and nootropics are the opposite
>>25247622forgot dudeweed.jpg
>>25246546I read him as an atheist 18 year old and didn't get any of the God stuff at the time. My own thoughts may or may not align with what my influences meant but I'm still right.
>>25247703right, his point was to make it sound like you could talk about the nature of being for hours without mentioning God. the reason for tolerating academics is isaac newton didnt understand the trinity but was still a great mathematician, descartes also claimed to be a mathematician and everyone says his name when they use linear coordinate functions or multiply objects as sets. einstein was offered the presidency of israel to normalize israeli aggression among academics who until then had believed in the just war theory though they didnt remember why. abraham lincolns eliminationist rants were at the same time that universities abandoned greek and latin and ΙΧΘΥΣ and let the name humanities be taken by the anti-humans
>>25247627What are these percentages?
>>25247748wow 0.05% of ppl liked sex at sex's peak? no wonder the birth rare is ass lmao
>>25247766
>>25247748back before llms there was the computational linguistics group at google that made ngrams search available
>>25247606>enlightenment>Descarteslmao evenretrospective logic is the common sign of the midwit
>>25247572I think the only reason monism is acceptable is because its within an acceptable historical paradigm
>>25249148It is the very beginning of the age of reason because he was the first to try to take apart Aristotle and the scholastics and replace them with something he thinks is better. So basically what everyone else tried doing afterwards came from him.
>>25249156Max Planck disproves classic Monism ie Zeno and Melissos. Something like hylomorphism makes more sense.
>>25249365Descartes was part of the "Age of Reason" but not the Enlightenment. The latter term does simply not apply if you want it to mean anything. He is a Modern philosopher, the first in fact, but the Enlightenment paradigm of Newtonian mechanics and sensualism is totally different to Descartes' and the 17th century rationalists' project. If Descartes is a heckin wholesome Enlightenment thinker because he championed reason, then so is Malebranche, the theocentric Augustinian, If it's because he critiqued the influence of Aristotelianism then Giordano Bruno is also heckin chungus Enlightenment. I'm not even taking into consideration that he never wrote about the concept, it wasn't even thought of yet.
>>25249375>dude quantum mechanics lmaoThese types of arguments always come from Dunning-Kruger retards who know nothing about QM lmao.t. PhD in HEP theory
>>25249615>HEP theoryVibes outside of the standard model. If one of you fags said the sky was blue I'd check twice.
>>25249615I admit I am not a science guy but I have the basic understanding that Planck proved that matter has a smallest possible base unit which cant be subdivided any further. This would seemingly disprove space-time/ matter as completely fabricated Ala pure Monism.
>>25249659That's like saying screens having pixels proves the image on the screen displaying sonic the hedgehog is real and fundamental.
>>25249692Well Zeno of Elea in particular was trying to show matter doesn’t make any sense by showing that it can be divided forever indefinitely thus meaning all space and all time is forever an eternity of indivisible nothingness ie Doxa
>>25249659>matter has the smallest possible base unitsounds smart until you realize it’s an entirely meaningless statement. Planck came up with a model of quantized energy spectrum of a photon. Extrapolating, or more precisely, dumbifying this, to your phrasing is fucking retarded.
>>25249409>Descartes was part of the "Age of Reason" but not the Enlightenment.the age of reason is when the person is a teenager and is morally culpable for sins but also is a simplistic atheist. enlightenment is when the person realizes that Jesus is the Christ and becomes Christian
"I doubt (I exist), therefore I think, therefore I exist."People didn't have "simple thoughts' back then, or anything. But short snappy statements like that are the ones that become famous.Because they're easy to remember and sound iconic. Lol.
>>25249409I was initially going to overlook this post because it’s needless semantic nitpicking but think of it like this. Do the self described “dark enlightenment” guys like medieval theologians like Boethius? They do. Well then obviously the guys who were rebelling against that like Descartes must of necessity be regular enlightenment then.
>It is entirely justified for men to torture and mutilate animals. After all, they are unthinking objects created by god to serve us>However also God would never NEVER do anything not perfect like randomly kill a ton of innocent people, even though we are only objects created to serve him.
