I thought Christfags believed in the Harrowing of Hell, where Christ frees all the pre-Christian era souls from Hell in between the crucifixion and the resurrection.

>>25244466
Generally, yes. Since the early church it has been held that Jesus raised up the virtuous pagans and ancient peoples in Hell all the way through to Adam and Eve as part of his resurrection.
Anyone still in Hell by Inferno is someone Dante thought God would condemn to it, believer or not.
Also, OP, as great as the Comedy is it's entirely Dante's fanfiction. It's all filtered through his sense of justice and his own grudges. Hence why Brutus is held to the same depths of sin as Judas.

>>25244458
The poem was never meant to be a description of the afterlife Anon. One of the techniques used in the poem is to describe things as if they "really happened," and maybe this confuses things. However, I think the larger problem is that people don't read beyond the Inferno and so they don't see Cato, a pagan suicide, in Purgatory (and so presumably destined for salvation), or the later Pagans in Paradise (notably, one of Virgil's own characters, but not Virgil).

Dante, is of course, simply sticking to the popular theology of his time. Earlier, in the Patristic period, it was fairly common to argue that the virtuous Pagans were delivered by Christ with the faithful Jews. It was less so by Dante's time in the West.

But Dante isn't slavishly repeating popular opinion here. He is making a point. Limbo is described in naturalistic terms that mimic the Earthly Paradise atop Mount Purgatory. The whole point is that even this becomes a sort of Hell due to being insufficient. He is making a point about the insufficiency of human reason and art without Revelation, which is why Beatrice must show up as his guide later.

Virgil is part of this point. Virgil can get Dante as far as "Paradise on Earth." If Dante was a secular humanist or Hegel type, he might have ended things here. But this isn't enough. And Virgil's presence in this Earthly Paradise is unstable, which is why he simply vanishes there, just as his own characters oscillate between the Purgatorio of pietas and the destiny of Rome, and the Inferno of furor and unchecked passions. Virgil is a pessimist and cannot escape this cycle. His sin is despair, lack of the theological virtue of hope.

The virtuous Pagans are a symbol of this. It's the mind that is properly ordered to the Good, True, and Beautiful, but never able to attain union with its object.

>>25244466
The Harrowing is referenced several times in the Inferno, sometimes indirectly, but also explicitly when Dante questions Virgil in Limbo.

“Tell me, my Master, tell me, thou my Lord,”
Began I, with desire of being certain
Of that Faith which o’ercometh every error,
“Came any one by his own merit hence,
Or by another’s, who was blessed thereafter?”
And he, who understood my covert speech,
Replied: “I was a novice in this state,
When I saw hither come a Mighty One,
With sign of victory incoronate.
Hence he drew forth the shade of the First Parent,
And that of his son Abel, and of Noah,
Of Moses the lawgiver, and the obedient
Abraham, patriarch, and David, king, Israel with his father and his children,
And Rachel, for whose sake he did so much,
And others many, and he made them blessed;
And thou must know, that earlier than these
Never were any human spirits saved.”

From this, it seems that those whom Christ saves are primarily biblical figures who, however imperfectly, knew God and believed in Him. In contrast, figures such as Aristotle, who represent the height of reason and pagan virtue, still lack divine grace and therefore do not attain salvation, which in Dante’s framework (as showcased in the entirety of the poem, Virgil himself being the personification of reason yada yada) depends on alignment with God’s will rather than virtue alone.

>>25244530
The real question is why Judas is as far down in Hell as Brutus.

>>25244530
So pre-Christian peoples were judged according to the objective virtue of their lives, while modern people are judged by whether or not they believe in a magic resurrecting Jew? We really got the short end of the stick.

>>25244530
>Hence why Brutus is held to the same depths of sin as Judas.
Dante had a grudge against Brutus?

>>25244458
Because it's a retarded fanfiction

>>25246376
Stop that protestant bullshit, it's not just about believing

>>25244458
Fear mongering for proselytization

Dantes inferno is not Christian doctrine neither is paradise lost.

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>>25244458
because Christianity is just extended universe fanfiction of jewish fairytales, and the divine comedy is just fanfiction of that fanfiction

>>25244458
dante is like the apocrypha, its literature about the Bible but it isnt the Bible and cant be relied on for doctrines

I don't know but I've been following christian vs atheist debates as my main hobby for twenty years and this is the first time I've heard of the "harrowing of hell" in two seperate instances this morning. And I can see artificial intelligence modifying and "narrowing" my internet into a fake simulation of internet, and this term suddenly comes into exi$tence with some plausible "theology" behind it. That's insane. Thanks for the wakeup call, but you guys don't even believe in time or resurrection, so I don't see the point in talking to robots, but I do think it would be validating to my LGBT experience if you would go around talking about how Christ has risen and forgiven sins of those who repent, it would be a great way to honour the memory of my sweetheart pet cat of fifteen years who we had to put down yesterday.

>>25249338
harrowing of hell is a theory that was invented because people dont understand what it means that God is the same yesterday today and forever or why a God Who is the same always would spend 1000 years in the sandbox with some hebrews answering their questions with the two stones umin and thummin and sending them prophets and telling those prophets to write the Bible. Jesus talked about people being in heaven but pastors love to make up the seven church ages and dispensations and abrahams bosom being an airport hotel outside of heaven

Firstly, the Bible is a book full of injustices against the worshipper. Imagine prophets cursing The God who is Christ, the man who died for three days—imagine a god dying! How can there be three gods? Where is the logic? And the Book of Songs, verse 7, confirms my point. How can the Bible be nothing more than a pornographic book? A god who calls himself a lamb and calls his servants donkeys.

>>25244458
It's all made up anyway, and people are egotistically more interested in their own fate than some ancient person.

>>25248873
What about the thief on the cross

>>25249338
The harrowing of hell is literally in the Nicene Creed AD 325 "he descended into hell"

>>25249889
>Imagine prophets cursing The God who is Christ
the Bible has many corrupt prophets stories
* balaam was asked by the moabite king to curse the israelites. he told the moabites that the israelites would be cursed if the moabites could get them to fornicate. this is how the israelis get the world cursed
* zedekiah son of kenaanah told ahab that he would win his campaign at ramoth gilead, micaiah told the truth and was put in jail
* an old prophet of bethel deceived a younger prophet, the prophesied truthfully that the younger prophet would die for failing to do what God commanded him

>>25249889
mashallah brother you right

idk if this is just a 21-post bait thread, but somehow the orthodox answer has not been given yet. People aren't condemned for not believing in Jesus, they're condemned for their sins. God is under no obligation to give everyone an opportunity to receive salvation; if it were obligatory, it would not be grace. Condemnation is according to justice, but salvation is according to mercy.

>>25250276
Why are you taking him seriously, kek

>>25251776
So what do i do

>>25245382
which translation is this