Unpopular opinion: fiction is fine, but for the most part it's highly intellectually overrated and shallow.
>frogniggerShift+Left-Click
>>25245340What should we read then OP?You didn't give an alternative. It make you look like a faggot just a little bit.
>>25245344well first of all I didn't say that you shouldn't read fiction now did I?
>>25245346That's still not an alternative.>This is stupid so you should still do it.What?
>>25245351well playing video games is stupid, but I wouldn't tell you to NOT play video games.
>>25245355So your thread has no point.Lame.
>>25245355He’s trying to ask what ISN’T “highly intellectually overrated and shallow”.
>>25245359THIS DICK NIGGA THIS MF DICK!!!
>>25245356the point is that fiction is fine, but for the most part it's highly intellectually overrated and shallow.
>>25245376So what isn't?
>>25245376Sounds like selection bias to me. Can you give ecamples of shallow works and deep works?
>>25245340read your second, maybe even first book
>>25245386philosophy. >>25245388For instance Pynchon, Gaddis, Jorge Luis Borges, Delilo, Cartarescu, Bolano, McCarthy, Krasznahorkai, Kafka. I enjoyed some of their work to lesser or more degrees, but most are what I would classify as intellectually overrated to lesser or more degrees
>>25245414What kind of philosophy?
>>25245414>but most are what I would classify as intellectually overrated to lesser or more degreesMost people are not intellectuals. There are many non fiction books that are simple enough for simple people to understand.
>>25245419Well philosophy is a way of thinking as well as a field of study and writing. The kind doesnt matter because it is the former which gives it its quality. Not only is it a way of thinking, it is inescapable and more worth speaking about directly rather than beating around the bush or being ignorant of.
>>25245427Decent dodge of anons blatant attempt to pin down your taste so he can call it pseud
Popular opinion: frogposting in the OP is not fine, and for the most part it's retarded and gay
>>25245414Reading philosophy is truly the greatest waste of time. Buncha reddit retards that don't go outside and can't agree on the definition of a tree
>>25245340School made me hate fiction. Now that I’m an old faggot, I like it again.
>>25245435how is it "not fine" but also "for the most part" retarded and gay? Is my use retarded and gay or just not fine? or not fine and something else?
>>25245438I would agree that reading philosophy is truly a great waste of time. This is usually the case because the person reading it does not understand it or why it's valuable
>>25245438>waste of timeYour view of the world is subjectively based on your genetics, experiences, belief systems, brain chemistry, nervous system, ect ect...For you the truth could very well be that it has no use. It could be use did not understand it or failed to apply it and got no use from it. For me it is true that philosophy has been and coninues to be very helpful.
>>25245454>Your view of the world is subjectively based on your genetics, experiences, belief systems, brain chemistry, nervous system, ect ect...Hello bugman
>>25245355What if they're video games based on non-fiction events?
>>25245488>deflecting>racist insult bait>zero argumentI accept your concession.
>>25245340I think instead of calling lauded fiction intellectually overrated you need to come to terms with the fact that you're probably intellectually deficient.
>>25245504See and this is the line of reasoning I'm arguing against. Defenders of fiction MUST also defend the intellectual depth of fiction. Why?
>>25245438I get a lot from it because many of the writers often elucidate on things I’ve thought about myself much better than I ever could, while often adding something new to the equation that I hitherto had not thought. It can construct your worldview and can help you to use the language to explain your thoughts about the world, and the limits of it, as well as your own mind. It’s also never a slog like a lot of fiction can be because you’re intensely focused on every exposition, every idea; whether you agree or not, or whether it’s a completely different philosophy that is alien to you, you still put yourself into the mind of the man who wrote the book to see where and how he came to his conclusion (like with analytic philosophy in my case). And that focus you have while reading that you seldom are able to when reading fiction leaves no room for boredom, and makes everything proceed quicker, even if you’re reading more slowly, at least in my experience.All that being said, I still think OP is being a little unfair with fiction as it can contain a lot of intellectual stimulation itself through the cultivation of language and history.
>>25245517>YOU SEE THE FACT THAT THEY DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM MY REDUCTIONIST INSULTS PROVES THEY WILL DEFEND THEMSELVES THEREFORE PROVING ME RIGHT ABOUT THEM NEEDING TO DEFEND THEMSELFSgottem.
>>25245441All frogposting in the OP is not fine. Mostly it’s also retarded and gay. There’s no specific mention of the OP of this thread, although that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a retarded and gay frogposting OP
>>25245340when was the last time you ever had an opinion or thought pattern that wasn't tunneled by direction-brain buzzwords
>>25245427Answer the question, retard.
>>25245615I did, retard.
>>25245429But having no taste ironically makes you a pseud.>I enjoy philosophy.>Who do you read?>Yes.
>>25245669You kind of dodged it>>25245671But why do you care so much?
>>25245674You mean why is it relevant to ask someone who claims they like philosophy which philosophers they study?
>>25245677No, that’s fine. But you’re awfully persistent.
>>25245677no, why is that question relevant to the point that literature is intellectually shallow in comparison to philosophy
>>25245677fucking retard lmao
>>25245680>>25245681>>25245682That literally makes no sense.>I like philosophy.>Which one?>Why are you so persistent? God leave me alone.What lol.
>>25245688>no, why is that question relevant to the point that literature is intellectually shallow in comparison to philosophynow youre the one "dodging"
Stop talking like a high school drop out, faggot
>>25245691I asked what you like alternatively.You said philosophy.I therefore inquired which ones.That's a basic conversation.>I hate strawberry ice cream.>Ok which flavors do you like.>What the fuck does that have to do with strawberry ice cream?This isn't about me or literature is it?
>>25245688But it figuratively does.
>>25245697I'm not your friend pal i don't have to be nice. if you want to engage with the idea then try
>>25245698In what way?
>>25245427Okay, cool, but what kind?
>>25245702Engage with what?
>>25245688literal actual fucking retard lmao
>>25245712How's he retarded?I think that's actually very reasonable.
>>25245706Yeah, I think I understand why you don't read philosophy. You're fucking stupid!
>>25245716I have read philosophy actually.My favorite is Plato.
>>25245719What's your favorite novel?
>>25245719From Plato?The Republic or Symposium.I also enjoy Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.Hbu?
>>25245714>umm actually the literally illogical bullshit is kinda reasonable when you think about it literally and logically
>>25245742>He hasn't read Plato's Republic.>I know philosophy.Why are you coping?
>im smart and i super fit in here, guys!
>>25245745
>>25245753You're projecting.
>>25245756>I concedeAccepted.
>Still can't answer the question
>>25245793Proof?
>>25245439still haven't gotten there yet
>>25245438prove you go outside yourself
>>25245611NTA but never
>>25245344You imply that reading should aspire to be intellectual by nature. Why? Do you enjoy the perception of having high intellect? Is that the goal of reading books, to flex your intellect for self-satisfaction?
>>25246506yes
>>25245340You've been trying REAL HARD to push this narrative this year. You kinda pussyfooted with it for a while, a few meandering posts here and there but now you're trying REAL HARD.You suck cock btw.
>>25247120schizo
>>25247153Yeah right. It's probably the same moron who has been pushing the whole: "JUDAS SACRIFICED MORE THAN JESUS" thing too.Believe it or not, but the majority of the people you interact with here from day-to-day are actually the same group of idiots you interacted with yesterday.
fiction is mostly for pleasure, why else bother?
>>25245340Fiction is mentally ill because by definition you want to escape realityNon-fiction is consistent with reality and perceptually stimulating
>>25247171>perceptuallyperceptively*
Bait used to be believable.
>>25245340the best works of literature have been fiction. The Odyssey? Iliad? Hamlet?
>>25247171Think you meant "perpetually" there, moron.
>>25247175It still is.
>>25247171You generalise a little bit, because if you’re reading a book that happens to be fictional, but for the beauty of language or how it communicates themes or whatever, is that so much escapism or is it simply appreciating art?
>>25247179>perpetuallyKek. Why would I mean "perpetually", you retard.Non fiction stimulates your perception of reality. Fiction takes you out of it. Unless you're mentally ill, you should have no desire to ever flee *reality*. Flee your reality, sure, but flee reality? That takes fatigue. Once you get there, other ways to flee reality are open to you.
>>25247186Its uhh.. because it's perpetually stimulating.
>>25245899understandable and respectable
>>25247185Interesting point but wouldn't that be more reading poetry?I think you're muddying the water when you bring that into the mix.
>>25247171Half truth at best, good fiction is about confronting reality. You're talking about escapism, which is basically most anime, video games, sci fi, horror, romance, fantasy, etc. Read Life and Fate by Grossman and tell me that book is "escaping reality" kek
>>25247187>perpetually stimulatingYou're being retarded.
>>25247171>Non-fiction is consistent with realityhahahahahahahaha. very good!
>>25247192>Doesn't know what perpetually meansI share this website with 20 IQ street sleeping Dalits.
>>25247189poetry is better at that yes, but good prose can also do it. ever heard of melville? nta btw
>>25247190>Spend X time to understand my pointWhy don't you tell me what it's about?Fiction is fictive by definition, it may or may not have real themes but you're justifying fiction by borrowing from non fiction.Make the case for why fiction isn't escapism, or why escapism is fine. I'd love to hear it.
>>25247190reality is ostensibly more than a collection of emotionally charged events happening to a subject
wow you guys are really triggered by this idea. I wonder why?
>>25247194Don't anger me now, illiterate retard. Perpetually means something completely different and doesn't fit in that context. Why would fiction not be perpetually stimulating?Non fiction stimulates your perception of reality. Fiction takes you out of it.I meant perceptively, but not "perpetually". Fucking retard.
>>25247201its also the idea that non-fiction attempts to explain whereas fiction does not, it just gives particular instances of events and interpretations
>>25247196>Fiction is fictive by definition
>>25247203>Generalizing writing styles as though he's only read one book of each theme
>>25247201>Completely misunderstood what I was initially getting at>Has taken it to a level that I never initially meant, nor intendedI'm not OP, dipshit.
>>25247207Tells you the retardation I responded to>"Fiction confronts reality"
>>25245340ESL?
>>25247210Either explain why you think I meant perpetually or fuck off already
>>25247196>Make the case for why fiction isn't escapismDid you not pay attention in grade 9 English class or are you another high school dropout? Fiction is escapism when it's designed to be mindless junk-food entertainment. I don't see how anyone could read Brothers Karamazov, Moby-Dick, Ulysses or War & Peace and call them "escapist" despite their philosophical/theological/historical methods and concepts. Dragons and exploding space-ships are escapist, not exegesis or anagogy. inb4>they're escapist because they're not realI guess math textbooks are escapist because the kid counting how many apples are left in his basket is not "real" either.>or why escapism is fineI think escapism is terrible which is why I hate most modern fiction (this includes film and media in general).
>>25247215No. Stay mad you dumb little bitch. :^)
>>25247212>Retardation is retarded by definition
>Baiter OP loses control of his bait thread Many such cases.
Hi eveyrone, I'm the non fiction proponent and I just want to say, I found this sub yesterday when I started writing my gooner book and I haven't been much of a reader prior to itI just looked up the definition of fiction and I learned that it also includes stories where only the events and characters are made up. I thought non fiction was everything that was based in reality and fiction things like Harry Potter, I now know betterI take back everything and I've left the thread>>25247196>>25247171>>25247186...>>25247215all me btwI still don't agree with the guy who incorrectly claimed I meant perpetually. That guy is objectively retardedThanks and god bless you, bros
