>The newspapers are constantly filled with shocking reports about the kindness of the German women toward French officers, so that they can make use of their little bit of French. “It is a great shame,” says R., “that the Germans no longer beat their women; if that custom were to return, we should experience a revolution in the literature of today.” >R. goes out in the afternoon and returns home quite appalled by a beerhouse near the theater, in which he discovered two very disreputable prostitutes working as barmaids. What shocked him, he says, was that nobody thought anything of it, people had talked about their own affairs and ignored this vileness as if it were quite in order. “It is terrible the way our women so innocently wear these means of provocation, chignons, etc., and nobody gets indignant about it! And where will it come from, here in our climate, this feeling for beauty, how can it develop here? >After lunch we go for a drive in spite of the uncertain weather; on the journey we talk about the ugliness of present fashions. “What impression of femininity can a young man now have when he sees all these chignons?” R. says. “How can male propensities ever flourish?” >R. began the day with a conversation about the Greek attitude toward love, which we cannot ourselves envisage and which, when it did not degenerate into depravity, produced the highest qualities of aestheticism. “The adoration of women, on the other hand, is a completely new factor, and one which divides us entirely from the antique world. The ancient Germans respected women as something | mysterious, closer to Nature—rather in the way the Egyptians worshiped animals—and, in order to preserve their divinity intact, did not wish to touch them. What this cult has led to today, whereby women since chignons and bihi hats have demanded to be adored and from which they derive all this emancipation nonsense—that we already know.”
>>25246409She kept quite the diary
This poor man who impregnated his own conductors wife and saw all of his random fucks of married women as beautiful expressions of love even when they left his wife or other families in agony, tuly the last champion of decency and morality
>>25246416Grow up.I think its interesting to see the modesty crisis going back 100+ years. What he’s complaining about here will hardly register for members of this vulgar Americanized world where you routinely get live action porno at the grocery store
>>25246412>Cosima's life mission was total service to Wagner and his works; in the words of the music critic Eric Salzman she "submitted herself body and soul to the Master". In Wagner's lifetime she fulfilled this purpose primarily by recording in her journal every facet of his life and ideas. >Hilmes likens Cosima's role to that of the abbess of a religious community: "a cohesive, quasi-religious congregation sharing a common philosophical outlook". Anti-Semitism was integral to this philosophy; although in 1869 Cosima had opposed the re-publication of Wagner's anti-Jewish treatise Jewishness in Music, this was on grounds of commercial prudence rather than sensitivity. In 1881 she encouraged Wagner to write his essay "Know Thyself", and to include in it a tirade against Jewish assimilation.
>>25246412Its one of my favorite books.
>>25246418Nothing women wear at the grocery stores today is nore immodest than men wore in the Renaissance. Men even worse huge codpieces to make their dicks look big in their tights
>>25246420What other good Puritan books do you like?
>>25246430I like Arabian Nights
>>25246430I looked one up he might like>To My Husband and Other Poems is a collection of poems that focuses on her personal life, love for her husband, family, and religious faith>by Anne Bradstreet (c. 1612–1672), the first notable American poet and the first writer in England's North American colonies to be published>Both Anne's father and husband served as governors of the Massachusetts Bay Colony from 1634–1635, 1640–1641, 1645–1646, 1650–1651, 1679–1686, 1689-1692>Both Anne's father and her husband were instrumental in the founding of Harvard University in 1636; her father was a founder, and her husband an overseer. >Her first collection, The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung Up in America (1650), was widely read in America and England.>The purpose of the publication appears to have been an attempt by devout Puritan men (i.e. Thomas Dudley, Simon Bradstreet, John Woodbridge) to show that a godly and educated woman could elevate her position as a wife and mother, without necessarily placing her in competition with men>Throughout "Letter to Her Husband, Absent upon Public Employment," Bradstreet states how she feels lost when her husband is not around and that life is always better when he is around.
>>25246409>R. goes out in the afternoon and returns home quite appalled by a beerhouse near the theater, in which he discovered two very disreputable prostitutes working as barmaids. What shocked him, he says, wasWhat didn't shock him was that 5ft, 5in manlets like himself would be made fun of by everyone if they walked into a beerhouse
>>25246443I'm sure they weren't. The height obsession is modern and the result of gynocracy. Men didn't give a shit about that. You might as well care about how a guy's penis looks.
>>25246449More like men didn't give a shit about whore barmaids not dressing like proper ladies
>>25246482When your women turn into whores, societal collapse is not far away.
>>25246488The thing is its not even that all women are whores (that’s another debate) but they all dress like whores, so it has the same effect on the sensibility. Anyone who is okay with this doesn’t know what real femininity is and has no access to finer sentiment. The chignon thing is interesting… given current conditions I wouldn’t have realized it as its not a whore thing, but seeing women with the hair like that does have a negative effect on the senses - hard to exactly describe but there’s a self absorption or even a neuroticism there. Hair conducts energy from the atmosphere/environment so it makes sense.
>R. began the day with a conversation about the Greek attitude toward love, which we cannot ourselves envisage
This is the same guy that inserted soft porn into Tristan and Isolde, lmao.
>>25246488The women were literally prostitutes you dumbfuck. Prostitutes.
>>25246556prostitutes being introduced into regular societyand then the second part is complaining about regular women dressing sluttyanyways not sure what your point is
>>25246554The sex only occurs at the symbolic level in Tristan und Isolde, there's absolutely nothing pornographic about it and no one could become aroused while watching or listening to it. The 'Tristan is about sex' meme needs to end.
>>25246559Prostitutes in a bar. A bar.Prostitutes had long been a staple of high society which referred to them as courtesans
>>25248455It may be technically about sex in its truest sense. Later in life he was open to a Schopenhauerian interpretation of the tragedy as nature being stifled in its highest purpose - bringing a new organism into being. It’s obviously as far removed from pornography, from prostitution, as can be. On the other hand Wagner connected Tristan’s wound with that of Amfortas (and the latter is about prostitution). (Mahler develops on this line.) Anon may have in mind Clara Schumann’s objection which are idiotic and don’t deserve consideration.
>>25248461We’re talking about a particular impression translated into English about an establishment in Bayreuth, bringing up “courtesans” in this context shows you don’t know what you’re talking about and are only being disagreable for the sake of it
>>25248494You were the one who suggest "introducing prostitutes into regular society" was crazy and scandalous when it was done among nobilityProstitutes working as bar maids makes sense because it provably wasn't a job women looking for a husband would generally want to be known for
>>25248539That wasn’t me but it might as well be, the meaning is lost in translation and once again, you’re wasting time by trying to win meaningless arguments. There’s no reason to believe these impressions from the greatest genius of the modern world are nothing but authentic, and by disputing them with bizarre references to courtesans you are engaging in a petty battle that only makes you look ridiculous. These are the transformations of the bourgeois epoch which is in causal connection to the state of today
>>25246419They just look strange.
>>25246443Rachmaninoff was nowhere near 6'6
>>25248539It kind of just sounds like you really wanted to do a WELL ACKSHUALLYWhat, specifically, is your actual point in all this? There was no societal degeneracy? Wagner was imagining things?
are those.... are those... CHIGNONS??!AAAAHH NIGGERMAN SAVE ME!!!!
>>25246409chignons are hot, what's his problem?
>>25246419It's very, very rare to find a woman like this.
>>25246409Much of what he wrote about is still applicable today. I remember reading one of his essays and being shocked at his complaints that the classics were being forgotten in favour of more technical, productive subjects, something I would never have expected of the 19th century. It's strange in many ways, because I believe that the Belle Epoque was the peak of western cultural development, and yet so many of the seeds of its downfall were laid in that same period.
>>25248582>from the greatest genius of the modern worldAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>25248648>>25248654Chignons had different associations in the 19th century.
>>25248972>>25248992Renaissance was already a mistaket. Wagner>At lunch Wagner becomes heated about the Renaissance, which he maintains had an enormously damaging effect on German development; this period had understood and respected antiquity just as little as it did Christianity, and men of tremendous genius had worked in the service of a power which corrupted everything. As always, the naive Germans had let themselves be so awed by foreign culture that their own aesthetic sense had been almost ruined. But strangely enough, though everything had been directed toward destroying the German identity, they had not succeeded entirely.>The "plait"-church Domenico with the pillar of the saint disgusted him, "that's where the renaissance lead to"; I [Cosima] say, that the renaissance is as little to blame for it as Palestrina's music is to blame for the origin of the operatic aria, but he sticks to his opinion, Greek art had influenced the world long after its fall, but with this eagerness to do it beautifully, to avoid the harsh, one arrived at the rococo. There was something spoiled in the seed. People like Nietzsche, through the renaissance-man Burckhardt, even say it openly what they want: Erasmus, Petrarca, they are abhorrent to me.
>>25249117>romantic composer champions the middle agesshocking and unexpected
>>25248803Yeah but probably less rare than men who merit this kind of devotion, or some version of it.
>>25248972Actually building things instead of endlessly masturbating over a dozen old poets was indeed a good thing. To force the trait with his sworn enemies, Wagner was the goy equivalent of his contemporary rabbis-in-hats that lamented that the talented Jews were, after millennia of mind numbness, finally starting to be intellectually productive in the second half of the 19th century instead of ruminating the Talmud (and tax code) all day long.
>>25248582Why do midwits who know next to nothing about music theory, gravitate toward Wagner?
>>25249427Wagner is plebeian. He's what would happen if old timey tavern musicians had access to an orchestra and were serious about using it. The problems come when fans try to frame it as elevated music and boast about the complete lack of grace and elegance.
Wagner is the greatest Romantic artist, the culmination of the whole Romantic movement. You can hate Romanticism but you can't in good conscience enjoy Romanticism and hate Wagner at the same time.
>>25248992what was the association, then?
>>25249535Idiotic comment, but obviously you are only trolling. “Plebeian” isn’t a good insult because Christ himself is “plebeian”>>25249427Since Baudelaire
>>25249783Baudelaire wasn't a midwit, he just didn't have much access to much music or theory. Today, music and music theory are easily accessible
>>25249207ywnbaw, and such.
>>25249841Wagner especially attracting people who “who don’t know music theory” is not a thing, its something you’ve made up for the sole purpose of being irritating and polluting the discourse. You’re a retard trying to leverage on the most unreal sense of superiority
>>25249865Most men are lazy conformists. For a woman to submit fully to such a man would be to be led astray. They are led astray regardless, absorbed in petty narcissist. No idea what this has to do with being trans, faggot.
