Thoughts on zoomers discovering Dostoevsky?
>>25249635Russian bots
Thoughts on OP being a homosexual retard that's posting bait on 4chan?
How is it bait, retard? Go on YouTube and you'll find videos unironically titled "Clavicular is what Dostoevsky warned us about". It's all debased. Search "Dostoevsky" on Pinterest and witness it for youself.
>>25249635>male loneliness epidemicThere have always been depressed incels, are they that dense?And of course they only read White Nights, and of course the only other books they talk about is Animal Farm and Meditations.
>>25249635You're either a Kafka girl or a Dosto boy. None of them are being read though, they just like the quotes they see on insta.
>>25249730It’s possible they might be reading them, after all, they have short enough stories to cater to the destitute attention span of zoomers
>>25249727nah its really an epidemic
>>25249635Why is it that when zoomers talk about Dostoevsky, it's never about Christ, the main theme of all his works?
>>25249792because they only read white nights
>>25249635I read Dostoevsky when I was 18 and don't think I was old enough to appreciate and understand it.
>>25249727imagine zoomers discovering the sorrows of young werther
>>25249792because they all found dosto through jordan peterson, who reads it as muh meaning muh hierarchy
>>25249635>reading to
>>25249635I think it's a good thing that the youth are developing an interest in the classics
>>25250097They can have Dostoevsky, but they can’t have Goethe, I wont let them have him. He’d probably filter them anyway.
>>25249653>Clavicular is what Dostoevsky warned us aboutBut do you have a counterargument? No? I rest my case
>>25250107>WHY DON'T YOUNG PEOPLE READ ANYMORE!!! WTF HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY!!!!!>Sees young people reading>NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! WTF!!! YOU'RE A FUCKING PLOTFAG RETARD!!!!As cringeworthy and surface level as zoomers can be about classic lit, and even if they barely comprehend it, and regardless of how good or bad of a writer Dosto is, reading him is still 1000x better than spending all day doomscrolling, no? Regardless of how one goes about it? Dosto may be overrated beyond belief and people may only read him because he's popular, but every journey starts with a step and if this is how classic lit is incorporated into the youth of today then it would be foolish to reject that because they're not immediately master philosophers. Can you honestly say you weren't also cringeworthy and lame as fuck as a teenager?
>>25250131>Can you honestly say you weren't also cringeworthy and lame as fuck as a teenager?This is true. But seeing these children fellate Dostoevsky, the 7th best Russian writer, as though he’s the absolute greatest of all time no one can compete wow he gets me, is a little exasperating.
normalfags are retarded, there's not much to discuss
Good. As long as they read it, not perform reading it.
>>25250211>perform reading it.It’s possible that is exactly what they do. Many of them read White Nights I guess, and take that to mean they’ve basically read and comprehended everything by him. So, they post about it their on social media to look cultured.
>>25250101this, beat me to it, /thread
>>25250153>Dostoevsky, the 7th best Russian writerWho are the top 6?
>>25249635>zoomers learn that people who lived before them had hardships and emotions just like them.Wow so revealing. Who would have believed such a thing.
>>25250211>Good, as long as they don't perform reading itThat was exactly my point. Also, it’s not like they're 12-year-olds. Most of them are in the 18–22 range. Cringe as fuck.
>I would say Dostoevsky and Marcus Aurelius are the two fathers of self improvmentNo way this isn't satire
>>25250328Those in that age group are mentally stunted anyway so they may as well be 12.>>25250331They also love Aurelius. I’d ask why but they’re likely for reasons of which I’m sure most can infer.
>>25249635If you are alluding to Dostoevsky’s worst novels, then, indeed, I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigamarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Dostoyevsky never really got over the influence which the European mystery novel and the sentimental novel made upon him. The sentimental influence implied that kind of conflict he liked—placing virtuous people in pathetic situations and then extracting from these situations the last ounce of pathos. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.
>we need to gatekeep [thing]t: kid who just discovered [thing]
>>25249635The one on the top left is one of the most performative images I’ve ever seen, with the text, then the stack of never to be read books, and the bust. It’s masterful!
>>25249635the bow on his head is cute
>>25249635They don't know shit about him. They literally just invent Dostoevsky quotes to make him seem like "the sad Russian man who makes you look intelligent by describing the ways you pity yourself"
>>25249792
>>25250509The fake quotes are so strange. Anyone that has read dostoyevsky would immediately read this as not something he wrote, and anyone that hadn't wouldn't care that it was attributed to him. Why do they even bother?
>>25250131If I had any reason to believe that they were reading it I would agree with you. The performative nature of fags and foids on social media suggests to me that they are not actually spending their time reading Dostoevsky and are instead browsing wikipedia summaries and/or quotes from whatever the modern Tumblr equivalent is in order to present an image of sophistication and intelligence.If youth were actually reading classics we would likely see high school literacy rates and/or interest and discussion improving and all evidence points to the opposite.I think you give youth too much credit and assume that they are sincere more often than not. Any attempt to cultivate image without putting in actual work will be embraced by them. The appearance of culture is more important than being cultured.>Can you honestly say you weren't also cringeworthy and lame as fuck as a teenager?I was lame as fuck but it was because I genuinely embraced a bunch of lame shit and was passionate about it. I have yet to see a zoomer who is passionate about anything that is not flavor of the month garbage.
>>25250510I'm sure she is cringe but "why are you reading this author? don't you know he disagrees with you?" is an unbelievably fucking gay sentiment
>>25249643Same old, same old>>25249635Discovering? I'm a zoomer and I've been here for 7 years.
>>25249635there are few joys greater than your least favorite artists being reduced beyond recognition because they got mainstream. everytime i remember this phenomenon i clap hands and jump in the air with a YES!!! can they get dickens next
>>25251065You know, this sounds really petty and pathetic but I don’t care about that because I have the exact same feeling as you, about Dostoevsky too
>>252502581. nabokov2. nabokov3. nabokov4. nabokov5. nabokov6. gogol
>>25249635Didn't this already happen like three years ago or so?
>>25251085It goes in waves.I saw something recently that described DoyDoy as a redeemed chud - a man whose disgust was not outweighed by his willingness to live in a way that was authentic and love unconditionally, even the parts that disgust him. That he stopped confusing holiness with grievance, and his writing was his particular way of clawing toward salvation. Kind of nice, actually.
Dostoevsky is a rather appropriate author to discover around that age (late teens to early twenties) as his work has always evoked a strong impression of "edgy highschool/college phase" to me. Any younger and the reader may fail to grasp the emotional states of the characters, any older and they'd likely grow frustrated with how limited and juvenile their philosophies and outlooks actually are. The utter lack of any semblance of agency grows exceptionally tiresome beyond a point, then merely tedious. Ugly prose and lifeless characters; the appeal is lost on me.
>>25249653How is this any different than "millennials discovering Dostoevsky?" People have posted a lot of stupid memes about him on /lit/ over the years>>25250111Nobody is getting "filtered" by Young Werther dude
>>25251085This already happened like 30 years ago and also 60 years ago and also 100 years ago. This is just what Dostoevsky is.
>>25251299Dostoevsky's characters seem like they belong in the madhouse, but calling them lifeless and lacking agency is lunacy. Tolstoy's characters fit that description far more.
>>25250153Nigga they're tall children, if they keep reading they'll get over it. At their age I thought Cervantes was overrated, I was a retard
>>25249635>abhijitpawar440>is also so relenvent still today>we need to gatekeep dostoevsky>deepchakraborty3353>Male Loneliness Epidemic centuries ago>he predicted online dating and the downfall of the westjeets were a mistake
>>25251325That's where you and I disagree, and it actually intrigues me since I've noticed this very same exchange before; it's a common point of contention. There are those who regard Dostoevsky's characters as dynamic and well-realized - regarding Tolstoy's as tepid - while there are those who feel precisely the opposite. Andrei, Pierre, and Anna all feel far more realized than anything produced by Dostoevsky, to not even mention Levin. It's a matter of taste; some prefer Dostoevsky's blunt, acerbic style while other Tolstoy's simple yet elegant style. Nuance and subtlety is prevalent in Tolstoy, it may just be that many interpret the simple passages as indication of limited depth (still waters run deep, and all that).
>>25249727>are incels densekinda par the course
>>25251083gogol rapes nabokov
>>25249635They've discovered Jordan B Peterson. No one who develops an interest in reading today looks at books from 19th century Russia, even if the authors were alright. JBP is a Russiophile.
>>25251083Nabokov is an american writer
>>25251440>getting a lot of boss baby vibes from this
>>25251453>Identifies based takes like mine with womenSays everything about the men in your life, anon
>>25251440>t. millenialget on booktok and bookgram gramps. it's arthoes who are in love with dosto, kafka, and camus.
>>25251480They/thems on tiktok are not reading dostoyevsky because of Jordan Peterson. He has not been culturally relevant for years, and even when he was, they didn't like nor listen to him. You only think this because he is the only person you've heard talk about Dostoyevsky.
I was a very odd kid in HS, not the most social and with 1-3 friends with my closest friend being a super fat but incredibly chill guy whom I got into a lot of fist fights with. I spent all break time reading classics nd never went out with anyone or to any school trips My geography teacher would always call me and him "Quixote and Sancho" and now that I just got out of HS im adopting it as part of my full identity, I did not realise how powerful of a compliment that truly was and felt annoyed at itIm also trooning out
>>25251489>Im also trooning outDon’t throw your life away like that.
>>25251488Nope. I'll tell you how you get to this. I remember a time before JBP and I'm living in a time after.Before JBP, Dostoevsky was only referenced scholarly. The most relevant Russian author was Solzhenitsyn, and he hadn't been relevant for decades. Only academics studied 19th century Russian authors.Then JBP went viral, and JBP is a serious russophile. He talked extensively about Russian authors and made Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn among others culturally relevant again. These authors were never culturally relevant in the US, they were respected and revered scholarly but only Solzhenitsyn had been somewhat culturally relevant in the last 50 years. JBP used their works to blow holes in left wing arguments.JBP talked about Dostoevsky in particular as a reference to moral ambiguity and "the need for religion". Thus, Dostoevsky was referenced as a good argument for religion.JBP joined DW and vanished around 2022-ish, but since 2024-ish, Catholicism, Christianity and "traditionalism" has seen a resurgence. JBP has already had his influence, and people who grew up listening to him are in their late 20s right now, talking glowingly about Dostoevsky.Zoomers on TikTok recognize Dostoevsky as something special, and that's where you get what we're seeing.Kafka is unique. His stories are digestible and special.Dostoevsky is esoteric. It's a difficult read. You don't just "discover" him. You decide to read him, then you discover him.So zoomzooms today are discovering people who discovered JBP a few years ago. Good gateway to intruiging authors like Kafka though.
>>25251317>Nobody is getting "filtered" by Young Werther dudeFaust probably would though. They seem to only like novels, this bunch.>>25251440Yeah, as other anons mentioned, Peterson isn’t the cause for all the new gen trannies and arthoes reading Dostoevsky, like the ones we see in the OP pic.
>>25251332I used to be like this about Shakespeare. But that’s because school forces you to read R&J and Macbeth while making it the most boring endeavour possible.
>>25251501Crossdressing only until im 25 and than imma be done w it
>>25251355I agree. The issue with Dostoevsky’s style also is that it’s a little “messy” as Tolstoy himself I believe stated. Tolstoy’s writing and characters are just sublime, Dostoevsky himself realised this, though they were both critical of each other. But I definitely feel Lev’s works were more “mature”. Tolstoy on Dostoevsky after he died:>I’ve never seen this man and never had any relations with him, and all of a sudden, when he died, I understood that this was the closest, the dearest man for me, the man whose presence I needed the most… I considered him a friend, and had no doubt that we’ll see each other someday…I think they’re both great, but my estimation of Dostoevsky has dropped as I grow older.
>>25250518I don't know the bitch but I guess she's talking on how they're misreading him
>>25251532You better be cute
>>25251509There are many people around the world that read Crime and Punishment in high school. What the fuck are you talking about? He's one of the most famous and widely read authors of literature to ever exist. If you enjoy literature at all, you know Dostoyevsky and have probably read at least one of his books. If you know only one russian author, it is probably Dostoyevsky or maybe Tolstoy. This has always been the case.Nothing he wrote is particularly esoteric either, especially compared to Kafka. It's all fairly straight forward thematically. Zoomers only misunderstand him because they literally only read his short works like White Nights and Notes from Underground. The impediment for zoomoids was always the length of his more substantial works.They're reading him because it's babby's first lit and and reading 19th century Russian literature makes them seem sophisticated to their spasticated tiktok audience that exclusively read genreslop. It has nothing to do with Jordan Peterson.
are people that try and downplay Dostoevsky just butthurt marxists? Their posts always stench of discord and hrt.
>>25251592Ignore him, he’s a terminally online pseud who probably hadn’t even heard of Dostoevsky until his adulthood.>Zoomers only misunderstand him because they literally only read his short works like White Nights and Notes from Underground.I don’t even like Dostoevsky but this does piss me off a little that they won’t even bother to read something like TBK which is an admittedly good book.
>>25251632I made a comment on that tumblr thread the other day about how a lot of these faggots like to take something old, which they genuinely enjoy, and revise it to appeal to their own ideologies. It appears that’s what they’re doing with Dostoevsky.
>>25249635Is /lit/ gonna move on to Pasternak now that Dostoevsky is normie trash (always was)?
>>25251538>But I definitely feel Lev’s works were more “mature”.What exactly do you mean by that?
>>25249635men in their 20s have loved dosto since his publicationthat you're a zoomer who is unaware of this doesn't mean there's any great statement about the times or the generation. his books have always been a college-aged phenomena
>>25250516I hate the millennial cynicism but as a zoomer I have to agree. They are more likely to be watching 3 hour summaries of books by wendigoon than actually reading them. Apparently, and this is more common among booktok women, skipping walls of descriptive text and reading only dialogues or plot advancing sections is also pretty common.
>>25251735Zoomers are funny
>>25251670Kek, we don't read
>>25251737Translations Ivan?
>>25251735Why read when there’s vidya? I don't play videogames but I don't really criticize my friend's who do, very hard to convince them anyways . Oh well.
>>25251752>War and Peace audiobook>"How am I supposed to read all this over the summer? Stupid literature!">10 hour video essay on a porn game>:O
>>25251760Kek. Thanks
>>25251299>Ugly proseI'm sure you could tell from the translation
>>25251766NTA, but I actually found TBK (Aleksander Wat) more beautiful than AK (Jan Cichocki) and W&P (Andrzej Stawar). Could be the translator's influence, Wat was a pretty good poet, while I'm pretty sure the other two were academics.
>>25251770unless you're reading the original just shut up about prose
>>25251809No need to be so rude, faggot.
>>25251809Prose can effectively be adapted, sorry that this truth makes you uncomfortable. Goethe genuinely preferred reading the French translation of Faust to his original German.
>>25251907>Goethe genuinely preferred reading the French translation of Faust to his original German.That I didn’t know, i wonder what he got from it. Also, the man championed Shakespeare as we all know.
>>25251907do you have any thoughts of your own? regardless of preference, the original is always the true form.Apart from strictly prose, a language carries an entire cultural baggage with it. The simple use of one word can be loaded with meaning and history not conveyed by substitutes in translation, so you end up missing out in meaning as well. You should learn a language and see for yourself. It's shocking how little a translation really conveys. I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable but you never really read Dostoevsky.
>>25251538>The issue with Dostoevsky’s style also is that it’s a little “messy” as Tolstoy himself I believe stated. Tolstoy’s writing and characters are just sublimeYou can't be serious, Tolstoy's writing is filled to the brim with mess of "realism" details which add nothing to the story or prose and exists solely for Tolstoy to jerk off too.
>>25251907The Faust example should be noted as a very specific instance of a francophilic poet enjoying an adaptation of his work moreso than he did basically proofreading himself—and where Nerval was a particularly talented writer in his own right who didn‘t fall for the stupid trap most translators do of thinking Goethe‘s verse can be preserved in translation.
>>25249635Why would the anti-nihilist, anti-consequentalist author see a resurgence among a generation raised in widespread nihilistic and consequentalist attitudes? idk man its a real mystery that
>>25251940Nobody cares, nobby. Go back to pissing and shitting yourself over Eugene Onegin.
Dostoevsky is pleb garbage published on pulp magazines for normie Russians to read. He is the equivalent of the average best seller normalfags gulp down.
>>25251760lmao the slavs are alright sometimes
>>25251440>JBP is a Russiophile.a wannabe one, maybe. doesn't he only ever shill dusty-jetski and soldier-neetzin? i've never heard him bring up nabokov, bely, mayakovsky, tolstoy, grossman, pushkin, etc
>>25252046>nabokov, bely, mayakovsky, tolstoy, grossman, pushkinNone of those faggot mention these writers, well, Tolstoy gets a mention and Nab sometimes but unfortunately not the others, unfortunately not Bely especially.
>>25252111Bely gets mentioned here, I picked up a copy of Petersburg after seeing the name brought up occasionally and having my interest piqued after some preliminary research.
>>25251440Jordan Peterson barely moved the fucking needle on anyone's opinion of Dostoyevsky. He has been irrelevant for years at this point and you need to get over you obsession with a washed up psychology professor and his 15 minutes of fame.
