I really don't get the fuss about that book.It's just some film that gives you so much pleasure that it kills you… "ooohhh spooky". Sorry but no. Rick and Morty pretty much approached that too.And the whole "don't look at it or you'll die"... Bird Box sounds familiar??These days people just take authors who ropemaxxed and make a cult out of themhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQoRfieZJxI
>i'm a plotfag and am triggered by anyone who isn't a plotfag
>>25250482>insinuating rick and morty is good "for the plot">ignoring the deep philosophical undertonesOkay foid. GTFO my board.
>>25250484I did not say rick and morty were good for the plot. Plotfag?
>>25250479The fact that the example you went to was Reddit and Memey instead of the novel that invented wireheading is dire:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_Ecstasy
>>25250491>plotfag plotfags harder
>>25250482can someone explain this whole plotfag thing? what is the alternative? themechud?
>>25250528The alternative is meeting literature on its own terms. If you are reading a plot-centric work, plotfag.
>>25250535>The alternative is meeting literature on its own termsSounds like some fag shit ngl.
>>25250545>my subjectivity is objectively objective!
>>25250550Look kid, the only terms I meet are the ones my bitch ex-wife's shyster fucked me with in the divorce agreement.
>>25250558>my subjectivity is objectively objective!
>>25250535What do you call someone who reads different kinds of books?
>>25250562Jake.
Isn't that from the King in yellow?
>>25250479I thought it was about narcoterrorism.
i fucking cried when Mario realized his night was "over"
>>25250562Jack
>>25250479Kill all plotfags.
>>25250528Read Moby-Dick and you will never plotfag again.
Monty Python already did a a skit about the joke so funny it kills you so the Anglos translate it into German and employ it as a weapon
>>25251071Moby Dick is wrapped around the plot stated at the beginning of the Iliad, Ahab was envisioned by Melville as an Achilles of the common man.
>>25251071redditors who dont have a lot of experience reading can plotfag anything, see here: >>25251104
>>25251111A lot of Moby Dick is distinct from the plot but the kernel of it is the plot. With just the plot it could still live, but it could not live if you removed the plot. Just like a pretty woman makes embellished garments stunning, but without her, the garments do not live
>>25251121i hope you’re not this stupid, so i’ll give you a chance to prove yourself to me.
>>25251121Lol. The point is that Moby-Dick is not great because it had a great plot or anything like that. It possibly got some of the worst pacing ever? The plot literaly stops for 200 pages or so as he spews "whale facts" on you.
>>25250479Yeah, but where's the chapter length description of a tennis match? Where's the Quebecois separatists and the eerily prescient outlook on America's outlook on technology and entertainment?Every book reuses concepts, but the concept of the Entertainment is not the entirety of Infinite Jest.
>>25250562Nigger
>>25250528Plotchads read because they recognize storytelling as an art and good plotting as a consequence of compelling characters. Good plot is greater than the sum of its parts and punches you right in the feels. Barbarians that are too insensitive or pretentious for this instead prefer when the author shamelessly babbles about whatever interests them and inserts superfluous content that doesn't arise from the narrative for a variety of reasons that I need not elucidate at this moment.
>>25251356Being a plotfag means you ONLY care about plot. It is the 'plotfag' that generaly can't pick up on themes or even appreciate good prose. Plot is all that matters to them, that is the issue.
>>25250479>Rick and MortyKill yourself.
>>25251121Just an absolutely inane response. I'm astounded at the stupidity. Are you a plotfag? That other anon said you were, and based on the stupidity of this answer I'm going to have to assume you are.
>>25250479That’s why ij is a wild book, dfw was just blasting out episodic crud gems like that almost without thinking, while doing a bunch of chewing tobacco or something like that. also dfw’s writing is pulp but pulp with the troubling quality of harnessing attention deficit disorder to some sort of nameless dread entelechy that included the creation of a desert in ohio where there wasn’t even any vibrating music making cacti like in a proper jg ballard sci fi story as u would expect there to be
>>25251356I'm a formcel.
>>25251967I'm a covertard
>>25251494i love rick and morty. what's wrong with rick and morty?
>>25251492Plotfags can care about theme and character, but they try to understand them through plot alone. It used to be a way to say you missed the point and got fixated on plot, a hint, but became viewed and used as an insult as genrefags (not judging, I enjoy genre) and tourists took over the board.
Moby dick is peak reddit
>>25250535>The alternative is meeting literature on its own termsPostmodern "partecipation trophy" "everyone is special" abomination
This show is just space nigger technology from the future
>>25250479DFW did it first though
>>25252082Postmodernism in literature is neither of those and does not mean you can prescribe meaning, it is just the acknowledgement that any writer worth reading does not need to be shoehorned into a school of criticism to be understood and shoehorning them into a school hampers understanding since almost no writers write completely within a school of criticism. It is just teaching technique and analysis instead of schools of criticism, Anatomy of Criticism being the foundational text and hardly postmodern. What the schools of criticism really taught was to judge how well (or poorly) a work fit into that school.
>>25251187Moby Dick has a great plot and needs its plot. Its digressionary style is part of the humor and just Melville's. But it is hardly unique to him, even the plottest of plotfag books, the Count of Monte Cristo, is filled with digressions
>>25250528>plotfagIt's just another demoralizing slogan that retards on this board like to throw around as yet another method to kill the reading process.
>>25252121>any author can be good if you just forget everything about literatureI'm not meeting a book halfway. At that point I can just daydream my own story
Kids here just hate everything now, for the dumbest reasons.
>>25252142Strawman or retard? That is the opposite of what I said.
>>25250479>the 1000 page book can be entirely summed up in a single extant plot elementkill yourself as fast as possible
>>25251071Right, like when they never actually found Moby Dic- Oh wait, that plot actually concluded in a meaningful way that was fitting for the characters and made sense in a satisfying way.
>>25252732You can’t be this stupid. I refuse to believe a literature board has people as stupid as that post makes you seem.
>>25252732>plotfag misses the point #1,908,452,872,098,481,893,001
>>25252257The 1000 pages waste huge amounts of space dedicated to plot elements that never matter in the end. That detracts from the merit of the novel, it is literally a waste.
>>25250528someone who can only engage with the events portrayed in the story and makes retarded conclusions due to thati.e comparing infinite jest to rick and morty
>>25252736>>25252737The driving plot element is perfectly tied into the main characters and is paid off in a masterful way at the climax of the novel. What are you guys even talking about? The whole reason that Moby Dick is a masterpiece is because it handles all aspects of the novel in a perfect way, the plot exists as much as it needs to and contributes as much as it can. IJ, on the other hand, wastes huge amounts of time on elements that never end up mattering to any character. If you can't actually build a case for yourself and instead resort to hand wavings and "why I never!"s then you just demonstrate you have nothing to bring to this board.
>>25252750I see I gave you too much credit
>>25252750>doubles down on missing the pointWhat in IJ does not matter to the characters? Sure the lives of the other characters that other characters are not even aware exist, don't matter to them, but that is life and part of the point, we don't care about people we are not aware of the existence of. Other than a handful of short chapters purely used to provide the reader with information (far less than MD does), the characters all care very deeply about their part. The case you are actually making is that plot resolving makes you feel better but few things in life resolve like a well executed plot.
>>25252754Why I never!>>25252760The Entertainment itself. We never learn how it ultimately impacts Marathe, whether he turns triple or quadruple agent (and what this might end up saying about his stance on freedom vs commitment to a different ideal), we never learn if Steeply continues hunting it down and satisfies his issues regarding his own father's past with Entertainment, we never learn what impact it has on Hal even though it was literally created by Himself to create a bridge of communication to Hal. So much set up, so little pay off. Literally just a litany of lose ends which don't even contribute to any kind of character growth or change, mostly it just fills out the backstory of characters, not how they change over time.
>>25250479crassness is static.
>>25251492So how do we explain grrm fans? His plots, themes, and prose are all bad.
>>25250479There's nothing wrong with liking Rick and Morty and Infinite Jest.
>>25252788>conflates plot device with plot>obsesses over plot device>fails to interpret plot device>fails to realize there are 3 loosely connected plots>fails to identify plots>fails to interpret character through their plot>tries to interpret them through plot device>accepts everything at face value>seethes because can't even plotfag correctly
>>25252894Are you being retarded on purpose?
>>25251996annoying reddit fanbase and 4chan hates reddit. Even outside of here a lot of people hate rick and morty just because of the fans.I liked it for seasons 1 and 2, then either the writing got worse or I just moved on. Can't imagine it's good now that Roiland is gone
>>25250482I think he's saying it's the perfect book and that freaks him out
