In his book The Prince, it's quite clear none of those ideas are actually his, and they actually come from his perception of actions that made rulers effective throughout history. He doesn't display any kind of enjoyment of cruelty or sadism, he is just documenting what rulers did back then in order to keep themselves in power.Why do so many people see him as some kind of psycho/controversial figure?
>>25253276Normies have egalitarian ideals baked so deeply into their psyche they can't admit that selfish and manipulative people have easier and more successful lives even anonymouslyOf course that doesn't stop them then from being selfish and manipulative, they just lack introspection and lie to themselves about being "good people" rather than hypocrites
>>25253276>Why do normies keep thinking he is some kind of psycho?His reputation goes back pretty much to the initial reception of The Prince. See the opening of Marlowe's Jew of Malta. It's not a normie-only opinion.
>>25253276The entire normie society is a massive gaslight where they say one thing and behave the opposite. Like how they teach a fake morality of decency and decorum but all the children songs are about rape. Or you read the bible and then at the very end it says that actually Jesus is Lucifer, psyche. Or we say potray knights, soldiers, police oficers as these heroic self sacrificing men of the people but really they're murder squads for the wealthy who's real job is to steal land and enslave. Don't even get me started about how all western art is about prostitutes and all western literature is about cuckholding.Its all just a giant psyop where they're laughing at you.
>>25253276Physiognomy
>>25253276He also didn't believe in absolute monarchy. He thought republics were a superior form of government
Does he make the earliest argument for the right of the citizenry to bear arms? He goes about the downsides of both mercenary armies and permanent standing armies, and claims that armed citizen militias are the best defense for cities.
>>25253276Machiavellians are distinct from psychopaths. Their primary mode is manipulation for some kind of gain, but psychopaths just enjoy inflicting violence and sadism. Women are the biggest Machiavellian manipulators of all, that's where the femme fatale archetype comes from.
>>25253276The reason people were upset with him is because he gives his recommendations based only on experience and effectiveness. He makes no claims for morality or religion, and the omission says that he thinks they're irrelevant. Most people, especially in his time, think that regardless of how things are, morality and religion should guide our conduct. He doesn't have to say: "be evil." By refusing to say any action is evil, he accepts that good and evil is of no consequence and the so-called evil is just as useful as the so-called good.So it's his entire worldview that bothers people and there's a very logical and defensible reason why it could be repugnant. Some very non-normies have seen it this way, such as Strauss.
>>25253579I mean, I don't feel he frames these as his ideas, he just seems to have compiled what he noticed to be effective for rulers.And religion could be used in a machiavellian sense, I am pretty sure there have been plenty of non religious rulers who used religion as a way to project power, without thinking about virtue at all. But the way people frame him, make him look like a psycopath who likes and loves every act described in his book, as if they were not implemented by rulers across history before him bringing them to the table
The most bizarre claim people make us that the Prince is a satire. As if it's the same as A Modest Proposal or Candide. He clearly trests most the advice as valid even if he might personally disagree with it or have different political preferences.
>>25253598Considering most nobles descend from thieves, usurpers, militia/bandits who mamaged to accumulate enough power and influence to be seen as "regal", even I think it's not moral, his points do make sense.
Honestly? The answer is because people just parrot what they've heard. Of all the people you have ever heard or read reflecting on The Prince, I would not be surprised to learn that the vast majority had never read the book themselves, and were simply repeating common takes. People have already mentioned why this false belief came into being, but this is the reason that it persists.
>>25253378>Or you read the bible and then at the very end it says that actually Jesus is Lucifer, psyche.huh??
>>25253535Florentine statesmen were prejudiced against professional soldiers because they were massive cheapskates and their armies kept misbehaving after Florence dragged its feet on paying them. Venice reliably paid their soldiers and consequently didn't have nearly as many problems with their mercenaries.
Niccolo Machiavelli actually teaches the reader how to become immune to emotional manipulation from others, but some foid psychologist created le "the dark triad traits" and taught that Machivelliasm IS a trait of emotional manipulation. Literally the complete opposite of what Niccolo Machiavelli espoused. Fuck foids and fuck the marxist pseudointellectual field of psychology.
>>25253276Because he was a pragmatic Neo-Roman who didn't give one iota of a fuck about moralfagging. This was in complete contradiction to the Christian moral zeitgeist of the time and libtardism today.
>>25253276Read discourse on livy.
>>25253276I've never heard of anyone describe him as a psycho, but mainly a pathological manipulator. He was more like a pragmatic and an opportunist, which is a good thing
>>25253598People will label most anything with a horrifying conclusion as satire. There were people who thought The Conspiracy Against The Human Race was satire until they helped themselves to any Ligotti interview ever.
>>25253276Don't pretend like any of you are better than the average normie, I've talked with or argued against most of you faggots and maybe like 2 or 3 of you are intelligent. Everybody else on /lit/ is a smooth-brained, mouth-breathing, cum-guzzling, knuckle-dragging, hare-lipped, RETARD
i wish i was cum guzzling...sadly im allergic to semen q^q
>>25253276I don't know but I like how Negri totally inverts this and makes Machiavelli-Spinoza-Marx the 'virtuous circle' as opposed to the 'perverse modernist circle' of Hobbes-Kant-Hegel
>>25253378trvke
>>25253559Machiavellians are NOT Machiavelli.Two different types of people.
>>25253579That's because a normal man's religion is good life, while Machiavelli's religion is power.religion = meaning of life, in this sentence.
>>25253586The paradox is that under Nicollo Machiavelli societies would have better lives than now, under the rule of psychopaths - because he made ONLY the rational decisions.He couldn't be bought. He would either fight against the jews as it would present him as a saviour of the entire world and subsequently grant him a claim to be the ruler of the Entire planet - which would be even beyind his goals suprising and benefitial to him.... or he'd be rulling a country just like NSDAP's Deutschland until 1937, which was just self-governing oasis from any nonsense government on the planet, for the citisens of any country he chose to rule - which would be Florence,Rome,Parma,Venezia or whatever he'd choose. That is if he'd not be invaded and destroyed by a larger state - a thing he could either make peace with or had no contingency plan for such occasion but death.
you can make a living off saying "i did not care for it" as often as you like
>>25253786Book of revelations (literally 'the unveiling' in Greek) where it refers to Jesus as the "luminous star of the morning", the same title which is used earlir for Satan.
>>25256544>Book of revelations>revelationSYou know nothing about the Bible
>>25253276His name became synonymous with amorality because he removed religious and ethical considerations from the art of politic analysis. That's it, that's the whole story. He actually seems like a pretty chill guy, his short stories were funny as hell.
