>>25256513
Anchor post for OP opinions
Since we're changing the OP I thought we might as well figure out anything else people want changed
https://strawpoll.com/jVyG2a2DzZ7

>outlining chapters by hand,this takes multiple days to write 20 chapters of outlines
>outline on the pc, this takes an hour for 10 chapters or so
why does the latter not feel right? i’d like to improve my productivity but i am condemned to pen and paper right now, and it is a task to write over 2,000 words on pen and paper.

This is your reminder to read the latest chapter of Foxfire Esquire

>>25256526
the physicality of writing is known to have a different psychological effect

>>25256527
This is your reminder to rage against the gangster communist computer negroidic computer god in Foxfire Esquire’s comments section.

>>25256536
Thank you Francis, very cool

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Guys, Kino-Man here.
Is 4.5k a standard price for 5 covers or the guy is scamming me?

>>25256551
that's a mega fucking scam man even for really good covers
especially if you're doing like "upper half of the main character with no real environment" covers
go talk to like, reddit u/kirahnn

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do NOT read Foxfire, Esq. by Noa (October)
it's trash

>>25256518
It should be blanked. No one cares about the OP.

>>25256559
fuck. Thanks, bro.
I literally have no idea what is the standard price for this market.

>>25256568
this desu. I never cared/knew about the spreadsheet until the trannies threw a shitfit over it last thread.

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Everything is so lame

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>>25256580
read Clara Casewell, Attorney to the Villainess by cocopi

>>25256569
The standard price agreed upon in The Order is 300-500$
But in reality you shouldn't pay more than $200 at most for a single-character cover

>>25256597
Thanks bro, gonna try contacting kirahnn.

>>25256587
>fmc
>no yuri
no, get the author to write lesbian sex

>>25256605
have sex, incel

>>25256551
is ur story good? what is it about?

>>25256614
bend over then

>>25256561
shut up dumbass

>>25256624
no, Foxfire, Esq. by Noa (October) has the MOST insufferable femc I have ever read.
No other mc comes even close to being this fucking insufferable. I don't even care about its gender btw.

>>25256630
>femc

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I don't trust original lit anymore.
Any good fanfiction out there?

>>25256630
fmcs are almost always insufferable and crying and throwing tantrums. it’s why i only read those which have lesbian sex because at least there is some reward for suffering through that

>>25256641
That's why you read tsmcs

>>25256643
>Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company
?????

>>25256637
i liked HPMOR when i was a teen but i tried reading it again and its horrendous so nah but you’re looking for fanfics of what?

>>25256641
stop reading fmc and read RI it’s peak

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>>25256637
The Boy Who Leveled by Abin Kydd
>Harry Potter is granted the mysterious powers of a "Gamer," turning his life into an RPG where he can level up, gain skills, and access inventories and dungeons. No longer just a mistreated boy living under the stairs, Harry trains and slowly becomes more powerful.

>>25256654
Sounds like garbage. People read this shit?

>>25256646
Doesn't have to belong to anything, as long as it's a derivative work. I'd never engaged in the original work of most fanfictions I've read.
>>25256654
Ew

>>25256551
For just the cover? You are getting scammed.

>>25256587
Where is it on Kemono? I know ot used to have a page.

>>25256682
It's here: https://kemono.cr/patreon/user/16217526
no need to thank me btw

>>25256630
the last two chapters revealed that she's transphobic tho

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>>25256527
Bro I KNOW but I need to read more of The Business of Shipping before I lose my mental sharpness for the day.
If I don't do it now I won't get any of that done. Gimme like two hours.

>>25256709
reminder to review bomb this poster
>I just took a screenshot to blackmail the mods with
ok, make sure to include one with your deranged rants about how you hate jews

>>25256709
wait fff, are u the fff kun that’s everyone’s boogeyman?

>>25256706
Ironically even actual transphobes don't consider being anti-drag to be transphobic.
It's a highly controversial topic for everyone, everywhere.

>>25256551
$900 per cover is average-to-low for english speaking professional artists
It also depends on the type of cover. For a full environment + character + typesetting this would be very cheap.
A lot of anons here order covers from 3rd worlders or people who don't make covers for a living, which is fine, but $900/cover is not a scam. It's normal to cheap pricing if you're hiring a professional even slightly in demand.

>>25256709
i just read the first chapter and it didn’t hook me, sorry. why do you spam em dashes multiple times every paragraph? i know it’s not ai

>>25256766
no the fuck it isn't lmao
even if you get it from a westerner that's way too much unless it's a complex painted cover
don't cope about overpaying

>>25256750
yeap
>>25256748
Haters can only lie
>>25256766
Yeah, I think, but no.
Professional cover, at least in my mind, is something else.
There was no real difference between the art of this dude and the reddit user's the other anon told me to check.

>>25256781
Really? The last part didn't hook you?
>multiple times every paragraph?
'Cause I neither use () nor :

>>25256792
the ai image of the blog? sure, but the dialogue being exchanged didnt really flow that well, i read two more chapters since posting that comment and the second chapter where he gets his fff rank seemed a bit better. but yeah not for me i think
good luck on the covers and shit tho bro

>>25256784
Yes, it is. And it's on the low end.
You can just do basic math for a sanity check. Full, polished illustrations easily take 20-40 hours of work, if not a lot more, which would be $20-$40 an hour on the low end.
For a professional artist in high demand because they make quality work - you really think they're earning $20 an hour?

You can easily verify this just by googling it or even googling adjacent topics like how much game splash art costs to commission.
It's fine if you want to hire third worlders or people without impressive portfolios, but I'm talking about good artists right now. The kind booked out many months in advance working with big authors or publishing companies on a regular basis.

It's not even conjecture on my part. I went through and found artists who had portfolios that actually wowed me, and asked for their prices. $900 was on the low end, some went much higher.

Is the new Years of Apocalypse cover AI generated or just bad?

>>25256766
maybe on planet retard

>>25256785
>There was no real difference between the art of this dude and the reddit user's the other anon told me to check.
If you're not impressed by his art then no, don't pay full professional prices for him.
Unfortunately, when I went through and searched for artists, the ones who actually made covers that looked great were expensive as hell.

>>25256817
Why do you people get genuinely mad about this? It's so funny. Use amateur ESL artists if you want, who gives a shit.
But that's what EFL pro artists charge. It's just a fact.

>>25256806
Look man you can argue all you want but the fact the Apple Store on the main blvd sells their dumb phones for $2000 doesn't magically mean that the noname brand that sells equivalent or better phones for like $300

The market doesn't lie. The fact you allow yourself to be scammed because you lack the will to find a better deal is your problem, but if you try to get others to also get scammed, then you're a faggot retard

>>25256803
>>25256803
No, I mean the dialogue between Chad and Jacques. That's my hook!

Also, read more. The next chapter is really different.

>>25256806
>>25256846


I spent five years regularly commissioning a guy from the midwestern u.s. who worked a pro concept art job at the time and still works that job, and he didn't charge me anywhere near that amount. My most expensive commission with him didn't even breach $500. I've also commissioned a guy with a yearlong waitlist and better english than most burgerstanis, didn't even ask $200 for godtier mechanical design. You are a blind idiot mongoloid.

>>25256846
First off, I didn't even spend $900 for mine. I got mine cheaper.
But when I sent emails to a bunch of artists with great portfolios, who have made covers in this space, those were the numbers I saw
Stop being such an aggressive faggot about it

I'm glad I only commission anime art so I don't have to deal with westerners scamming

>>25256853
>You are a blind idiot mongoloid.
You too?
It is genuinely bizarre how worked up you people get over this topic. What is wrong with you?

>>25256861
Because you're arguing a disingenuous position.
Are there artists who charge that much yes
Does that make those prices the market norm absolutely fucking not
"You should expect an artist to quote you $500+ easily" is true, but so is "in most cases it's not worth the money and you can get equivalent quality work for way fucking less"

>>25256748
>banned from 110+ comment sections after leaving negative hateful comments
>"they're the problem, not me!"
Laughing out loud. This general, man.

>>25256853
>for godtier mechanical design.
If you're akaso I think most of the commissions you get are really fugly
Most of the comm'd art I see posted here is really amateur and bad

>>25256748
RR mods don't care about what you say offsite. Shocked to learn they have a sense of professionalism, I'm sure.

>>25256758
Drag was never controversial at all until drag time story hour and trans people associating themselves with it.
Men dressing up as women in public was just a thing to get laughs or was done for theater in various parts of the world.

>>25256866
I can see that my design preferences are fairly particular and absolutely not to everyone's tastes, but you do understand that this is equivalent to resorting to "well your story sucks durr de durr" in an argument with someone, yes? You are not just a clown, or a circus, but the entire clown college.

>avoid this guy
>guy shows up like 2 sentences later
Cuttlefish that loves diving... this is like the 4th time you've done this

>>25256873
I think it's a very valid point. If all the artists I considered good when I looked into this charged a reasonable ~$40/hr+ rate when I contacted them, and you people say you can get equivalent art for minimum wage artists, but all the art I see posted here is obviously amateur, then I can see we have disconnect in standards. We are arguing about pricing for different things. I don't want the kind of art you get.

>>25256880
Whatever, fine, you'll pull any reason out of your ass to dismiss my own judgment because you can just make a subjective claim about what you've seen in this thread.

Go look at the covers of the big names on RR and I strongly doubt the average price will come out even remotely as inflated as you insist.

>>25256884
>>25256880
Of course, you won't actually do that, because of the chance that the data proves you wrong, and you are not arguing the truth, you are arguing just to defend your (wrong) personal opinion.

>>25256884
>Go look at the covers of the big names on RR
I am not talking about the covers of big names on RR. I am talking about good book covers obviously made by professionals, which 90% of even the top RR covers are obviously not
The kind you would see on a bookshelf and think, hey, that looks good.

So like I said. There's an obvious disconnect in standards here. RR covers are awful.

>>25256890
>you won't actually do that
Do what? Interrogate the authors of the handful of good covers on RR? Obviously I'm not going to do that, you sperg. I can give you a list of the ones I think are good if you want to on my behalf, though, and prove me wrong or right.

>>25256890
Also stop calling it a personal opinion, retard.
I made a claim about a factual experience I had when getting quotes from authors, and you can easily google it to find data that backs me up. You are the one claiming budget covers are just as good, and I've seen no proof of that so far. Most budget covers are fugly

>>25256898
>>25256901

Sounds to me like you have some kind of complex and desire the "legitimacy" (what a joke) of tradpub novels. /wg/ is two threads down bud, enjoy the circlejerk.

Also

>implying tradpub covers are any good at all
>implying they're not overpriced as fuck because the artists double or triple their quoted prices when working with publishers

I would bet my left foot that if I magically made a copy of you and did a double blind test you would rate the same artwork higher if it had a higher pricetag attached.

I don't think there's any point continuing to waste my time with you since you're just digging your heels in like a spergoidal bull. Feel free to waste your own money, but don't misinform others.

>>25256919
>I would bet my left foot that if I magically made a copy of you and did a double blind test you would rate the same artwork higher if it had a higher pricetag attached.
My experience literally comes from browsing hundreds of books and artists, seeing who I liked and thought was good, then consistently getting really high rates from them...
You are delusional

>digging your heels in
You haven't made a single goddamn point or provided any proof retard. Why would I change my mind? All you did was say "nah budget art is just as good" and immediately started insulting me.
In fact all you did was provide counter-proof, because the commissions you get I find particularly grotesque.

>>25256922
I didn't say "budget art is just as good"
I said "you can find the same quality of art for a lower price if you bother looking"
I never said that price would be super low, but it certainly wouldn't be as inflated as you seem to believe

If the question is purely the quality of the art, which you've been using as an argumentative bludgeon this whole time, then nothing else factors in at all. Let's steelman your fucktarded argument and say it also has to be an EFL or at least someone who won't misunderstand the design doc, so that rules out a good 2/3 of all non-US/UK/ETC artists.

With these criteria, your claimed prices are still, generally speaking, inflated.

It's not just a matter of "is it a professional artist". It's a matter of "how well known is the artist", "how in-demand is the artist", and so on. Many professional working artists, that medal you cling onto so hard, work for around the same amt or less than "hobbyist" commission artists. They draw and draw and draw concept art and get paid comparatively shit for the industry because it's "le drawing job, le heckin dream job, ebin reddit chungus job etc etc"

Pay for a full-time artist is not even remotely as good as you think it is. That's why many of them do commissions on the side.

You don't commission ecelebs, you don't commission big names with long careers, and so on. Obviously getting a cover art of "Quality 20" from a big name will cost you more than a cover art of "Quality 20" from a nobody.

So if someone charges you $900 for a bust portrait, you're getting scammed. Or upcharged out the ass for "le commercial rights, big man publisher can afford it right? hehehoho".

The reason most tradpub authors just shell out for the overpriced cover arts is because those artists are already vetted, known, and consistent. It's the difference between buying an Apple phone or a random OEM brand, as I said.

Also, whether you like an illustration and whether an illustration is technically well done are not the same thing. Stop conflating them.

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$900~ does seem standard for working with a tradpub industry proven artist
however it's also true that you're a sucker and serious retard if you pay that price
pic related: 4 different covers from 4 different professional, tradpub cover artists

you're not paying for quality. you're paying for prestige
>not all illustrations
randomly selected from random portfolios. honestly that just makes it worse and is further proof that with tradpub cover artists you aren't paying for skill or labor hours because there seems to be no relationship between quality and cost

>>25256947
exactly what i was getting at thank you

>>25256944
Woah that is way too long of a post after you just said there was no point in continuing
And unlike you, I really am fed up with your retardation and hostility. So I'm afraid I'm going to drop a tl;dr

What are gu?

>>25256950
I have a bad habit of engaging retards beyond what they deserve. I hate to agree that this is not worth continuing. God willing your moronic opinions never take root and misguide anyone into wasting money on dogshit photobashes or abstract garbage.

>>25256551
This is about a thousand dollars a cover. From a competent cover artist that has been working a long time, this is normal.

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>professional tradpub covers
>look inside
>flat field of color with some text
>two objects on a flat field of cover with some text
>simplistic abstract vector art
>photobashes of fabio
do these niggas really

Noa has ruined Casey's character.
>what's wrong? they ask with concern
>uh I'm struggling with this thing, says THEIR SUPERVISOR
>well I'm going to sperg out and be really angry because uhhh tolerance and understanding only goes one way got it, SAID THE SUBORDINATE
>an hour later flirts with some chick
>chick is revealed to be gay
>MC has to remind Casey they're not a man
Literally, in those words, which was so cringe I was literally repulsed from the screen I was reading on
>Casey blushes
All this highlighted by the legal and technological competence displayed to a judge who looked on it favorably, while also casually misgendering Casey, which I guess that's okay and doesn't cause psychic damage because UHHHHH

I just don't like Casey now. He's an angry asshole wielding identity like a club. In book one I thought Naomi was the one predating on a younger colleague, but now the power dynamic has totally flipped and it feels even more wrong. This is EXACTLY why professional non-peer relationships should steer well away from discussions of sex and identity entirely.

THANKFULLY the legal cases are moving to a conclusion which is nice but DAMN am I tired of the mental illness aspect of the story. I'm afraid I'm going to have to deal with Casey's romantic fumbling and more of this "getting right with the community" nonsense when it's probably not going to be relevant to any of the legal or superpower plotlines (none of it's been relevant to those plotlines so far).

>>25256962
seriously, it's rancid

you have to have a hole in your head to pay more than 100$ for that

>>25256947
These are not the kinds of covers I'm talking about. I'm talking about sci-fi/fantasy cover artists where there are complex landscapes and characters
>>25256955
You immediately came out the gate swinging with insults, like the most inbred of 4channers.
>dogshit photobashes or abstract garbage
I've outright said what kind of art I was talking about. You are just gross to talk to, Akaso

>>25256974
akaso is chill
you're the chimp here. stop pushing your retarded standards and perspectives rooted in tradpub as if that authority is enough substantiate your takes
not only is that a retarded grounds to argue from, it's irrelevant here

>>25256974
I will fight like an autistic supersoldier on a few hills and overpriced commissions are one of them. First time I've seem someone throating industry artists though, it's mostly dipshits falling head over heels for ecelebs.

>>25256974
He's right albeit, 1k for cover art at all is absurd

>>25256982
>you're the chimp here. stop pushing your retarded standards and perspectives rooted in tradpub as if that authority is enough substantiate your takes
I gave my experience and said $900 is normal if you query professional artists who have a portfolio under their belt.
I outright said using 3rd worlders is cheaper and you can do that if you want, who cares?
It only became about whether I think the commissions from anons here are good AFTER Akaso started sperging out and insulting me for making factual claims and giving my experience.

>>25256988
It's only "normal" if you're a drooling retard.

>>25256991
Yeah like this
Don't you have another shitty flop to write, Akaso? Or another repulsive commission for your waifu MC?

>>25256988
your personal experience of getting scammed and thinking it's normal
the type to pay $50 for a gram of weed and think it's normal

>>25256996
Reread the conversation retard, I already said I didn't pay those prices. I said they were what I got when I queried.
We're just retreading ground and both of you are obnoxious, so goodbye

>>25256994
that's not me bud, believe it or not everyone who disagrees with you is not the same person
this one is though >>25256996
you get that you seething at me feels more like a compliment, right?

>>25256998
kek you got scammed

>>25256988
you're correct in the facts of your statement but you're not engaging with any sort of conversational intent
yes, this is strictly true >>25256766 so long as you assume that "professional artist" is a stand in specifically for a professional in the tradpub industry
it is absolutely NOT normal to get a quality commission of digital art of 2x3 dimensions from a professional artist outside of this bubble at the price point of almost a thousand dollars
I swear some of you are total fucking robots. you supreme autist. obviously when someone asks "is this price normal" they're trying to determine whether it's an acceptable standard, not whether there is a space in which it could be deemed conventional

shut the fuck up with this autistic debate about covers and send me names of books which have the hottest lesbian sex right now

>>25257014
https://archive.transformativeworks.org/works/44275453

>>25256998
>goodbye
We all know you're not going to stop replying, why even type this?

>>25257018
>futa
>ntr
the fuck is wrong with you boy

>>25257022
you wished upon the genie and have the hubris to ask for more?
your wish is granted exactly as stated

>>25257014
나의 어린 대공녀님

>>25257028
and a bong-kook chungsoeyon sumida to you too my hyunigga

>>25257022
I'd say something like 40% of 4chan is actually hispanic+some variety of lgbt.
There's a guy that infests /vg/ that actually got blacked irl because of porn addiction.

>me, a professional illustrator: I really can't do lower than $100, is that okay?
>client: ugh yikes I gotta think it over (never replies)
>some literally who: $4K upfront, whether you use the picture or don't, 6-month queue
>client: do you accept paypal, sir?

>>25257044
unironically yes, that's how a large portion of the population thinks
Arnold spoke of this, how his tiling company only started getting customers once they artificially jacked up the price.

>>25257044
can you do this job?
>>25256551

>>25257048
High prices are subconsciously associated with higher quality, even if not the case

>>25256527
uhhh, nyo :)

>>25257044
Different price ranges attract different customers. That's Marketing 101. It’s your fault for asking for chump change instead of going exclusively for the premium market. Now, everybody will associate you with low value work.

I'm going to use AI to help me write my story because I'm not good at the act of actually writing the words into a readable story. That said, I don't want to publish anything that I didn't write myself. How much AI can I use before I must use the "AI assistance" tag?
I assume that tag is a death sentence to a story, so I'd like to avoid it.

>>25257304
1. It's not a death sentence, AI slop is on RS main right now.
2. If you even think about it you should use the tag. I mean that sincerely. Also don't even bother. If you can't be bothered to write the words yourself, whatever it is you think you have to say is WORTHLESS to me.

>>25257304
If you use it for anything beyond spelling and grammar check you have to use the tag

>>25257304
I forgot to add why I'm asking:
The rules state this:
>AI-Assisted: The author has used an AI tool for editing or proofreading. The story thus reflects the author’s creativity and structure, but it may use the AI’s voice and tone. There may be some negligible amount of snippets generated by AI.
Surely this can't be it, right? An author would be a fool not to use AI proof-reading for their story. It's basically a free check for grammar and typos and I have no doubt pretty much every author uses it, but every story isn't tagged as "AI assisted".

>>25257313
>2. If you even think about it you should use the tag. I mean that sincerely. Also don't even bother. If you can't be bothered to write the words yourself, whatever it is you think you have to say is WORTHLESS to me.
I fully agree. If you can't even be bothered to hand write your book then the things you want to say are worthless.
>>25257314
That seems more reasonable.

>>25257322
Fuck you. Grow some standards, faggot.

>>25257330
Yes. Copypasta is also not worth reading. Fuck you too. Reverse centaur ass bitch.

>>25257336
What?

>>25257304
What part of writing do you struggle with?

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>>25257304

>>25255655
>You then go to the fantasy section, and the whole thing is written in an alien language. People don’t talk like that. People don’t act like that. Not now. Not ever. Yet writers insist this is how fantasy should be written. It’s bizarre.
Be specific

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Hey guys, just wanted to pop in to tell you that I finished my second volume! Things are looking up.

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>>25257644
cute

>>25257644
nice cover. well worth the $1000

>>25257354
Putting words on the page. I have a hard time expressing what I wish to express in the style of a novel. The writing style feels a bit alien. I can easily write a list of bullet points or a summary, but translating those into actual words is troublesome.

I'm not even sure how AI could help, because I don't like their writing either

>>25257779
Maybe trying using it as training wheels.
Use ai to help you write a few generic junk stories about some basic isekai/system guy going to taverns and dungeons. Then you can maybe get to writing your actual story.
Also read other authors, especially from other mediums and steal. Never stop stealing.

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>>25256513
What's the worst webnovel? And don't give a meme answer like whatever the most popular webnovel is. What is the Twilight and Atlas Shrugged of webnovels?

>>25257854
Atlas Shrugged is a decent book for 2/3 before it completely shits the bed albeit

>>25257854
>What's the worst webnovel?
There's tens of thousands of generic crap web novels, even more so if you look at Asian works.
Or do you mean so bad it's good?

>>25257857
I read 250 pages of Atlas Shrugged and quit because within those 250 pages I just read the same 10 page conversation between noble protagonist and Harry Potter tier strawman retard 25 times.

If it wasn't so repetitive I might have gone all the way to the end, but I seriously could not stand reading one more strawman conversation reiterating the same bullshit I already read.

>>25257854
My Immortal is the seminal trash webnovel

>>25257863
what's the webnovel that webnovel readers like to dunk on? The one that's socially acceptable to hate.

>>25257867
Martial God Asura and Invisible Dragon
MGA is what turned "having eyes but failing to see Mount Tai" into a meme.

>>25257854
there are 7 korean webnovels so bad they were named the 7 forbidden texts.

invisible dragon is one of them.

When do people start commenting? I launched a fic a little while ago and it's getting really brisk views (like way more than I expected), but zero comments or ratings or reviews.
Is there a better platform than RR if I don't really gaf about Patreon bags and just want an engaged and active readership?

>>25257883
If you're not writing litrpg or isekai you're basically about to get nearly none. or somewhere in the ball park of almost none. The most you'll get is art scam bots at first and then a steady stream of nothingless. There is no such platform for your second question. I'm assuming you're not writing the aforementioned kind of story or any cultivation/wuxia stuff.

>>25257896
Jeez, back to little tiny forums of writers and discords I guess

>>25257883
ignore the reductive chud >>25257896 I've seen both niche, off trend stories and small stories have engaged readers in the comments
frankly I don't think there's anything you can do to encourage engagement outside of waiting for a bigger audience and playing a numbers game
does having a discord actually promote engagement? people seem to think so but I suspect that's more of a way to nurture an already engaged reader base
maybe have end of chapter author notes? promote some discourse that way?
I saw someone say spacebattles is more engaged but frankly I doubt it

>>25257908
spacebattles does have a more engaging audience. There'll be threads where its quite literally pages upon pages upon pages of discussions for some of the heavy-hitting ones—the occasional fanart, like literally any Seras story ever for example. Just eyeball that weekly stats thread if you're curious what I mean. Even Archmage has a titanic amount of page discussions, so much more bigger than even its RR counterpart. But that's the thing there. If you're not also writing some fanfic or quest, or worm, or whatever, you may as well not exist on SB. You have to be pirateopa or whatever the troon's name is or Seras levels of insane output to bypass screaming into the void, just on atop of making a story people want to read.

On the other hand, a anon here was writing a cultivation story and he managed to snag a few encouraging engagements with people there. One of the space opera stories I follow on RR just had a explosion of comments on its new chapter after a year of hiatus, and this isn't really a big story and is the most niche thing imaginable since its not even any of the genres I mentioned before. It's just pure luck. But even if you put out a discord for people to join or do AN stuff, it doesn't mean people will come out of the wood work. I followed a story once where a author tryharded in his post AN, but no one really answered it.

>>25257924
>>25257908
Thanks! So it's kind of random + time I guess.
The process of getting commenters is probably not that different than the process of getting subscribers at the end of the day, it's all marketing

>>25257883
>>25257896
Unfortunately there is no platform better than royal road. Years ago when they still had the default xenforo config that showed daily site statistics, they got 10m impressions average. Don't know what it is now, but it shouldn't be less.
As for your low engagement, my standard-ish fantasy (non-litrpg, non-progression (same things in my mind) male protag, no fag stuff) did fine. 5 comments on my first chapter in the first day, 7 on the second chapter next week. I attribute this fairly minimu level of success to the fact that everything on RR is generally retarded dogshit for retards, and my story was slightly decent. 1000 followers now, some patreon bucks, and I attribute this LOW level of success to not fitting within the meta, but that's how it goes.
If you're bad at writing, my suggestion is to get better.
If you're good at writing, the problem is that you're fucking yourself ick-wise.
Overly-specific story descricptions (which may contain promises of story-components that people think they don't like (instead, explain little but suggest much, this is how to inspire wonder)), retarded fantasy-names for stories and characters, and attempts to appeal to certain groups of readers (these are always transparent) will all give the readers the 'ick', which is a kind zeitgeist-descended recalcitrant repulsion toward fondness for a certain thing, triggered by there being a mechanism in place to inspire in one fondness for that thing (your attempts at marketing). All zoomers (RR's dominant species) currently possess this as a baseline social mechanism.
Your cover might also suck ass. Ai chatbots and photoshop are both free. If you don't have one, get one.
All of the above will be intuitive to someone with great aesthetic sense. If you do not have it, you will struggle. My advice to you in this case is to not be retarded and simply 'get it'. My advice will not help.

>>25257883
Try not to upload at peak hours so that your fic stays on 'Recently Updated' for longer. That's where most of the new eyeballs on my story come from..

>>25257863
>Atlas Shrugged of webnovels
>"they are all bad lol"
>uses opportunity to dig on Atlas Shrugged without actually understanding the question and looking like a moron in the process

>>25257854
>What's the worst webnovel?
Worst I've ever finished is Dragon's Bloodline.

read RI, it’s peak

>>25257779
>The writing style feels a bit alien.
Writing evolved from oral storytelling. It’s what happens if instead of your friend drunkenly bragging about that one time he almost landed a 10/10, he recorded his speech, transcribed it to the pages, cut out the ums and ahs, embellished some shit further, and then handed it to you.
How he tells his story and how he edits is how you end up with his unique prose style.

I was, ah, sitting there in one of those trendy macha places--don’t ask me why I was there because I can’t tell you either--so I was sitting there and…like, this absolute baddie walked in. She was like, no bullshit, the hottest girl I’ve ever seen. Like, oh my God, she made me choke on my drink. So I had to talk to her, right?
So, um, I went up there and was like, “Damn, girl. You’re fine as fuck.”
And she did that woman thing and was like, “Ugh! I have a boyfrieeend?”
So I was like, “Are you asking me, baby girl?”
And she laughed and at this point, she probably noticed my six-foot-five ass, so she was like, “Stop it. You’re so baaad.”

>>25257883
>zero comments or ratings or reviews.
Means its terrible dogshit, I'm sorry. Readers will comment straight from chapter one if the story is even a little interesting

>>25257055
I'm sorry, kino-man, you're blacklisted by the UN

>>25257976
Your English reading comprehension is really poor

>>25258225
Can I contact your brother who is blacklisted too and draw exactly like you?

>>25256651
How much lesbo sex does it have?

>>25252959
they don't have a monopoly retard, they're like the smallest, Kakao and Naver are bigger

>>25258351
none only gay male

>>25258221
>published 15 chapters of my story
>2 weeks in and still no comments
I don't expect to be successful but damn does it hurt.
I just wanted some interaction with my readers. back to the lab again...

>>25258447
post link

>>25258447
you're cute

>>25258453
>>25258456
I already deleted it yesterday bros... I guess I'm more fragile than I thought.

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When was the last time you all culled abandoned novels from your backlogs? It's time to let go, anons.

>upload a web novel
>it flops hard, sub 30 followers
>delete it
>reupload with a different cover and title
>instantly hits rising stars
shrimple as that

also proof that nobody reads the fucking blurb

>>25258471
>nobody reads the fucking blurb
I'll read the blurb if the tags are weird enough and the title is vague enough just to figure out what the fuck I'm looking at.

>>25258464
Never. I've been reading a ranma fanfic for 26 years... one day it will be updated... I Still believe

>>25257018
>futa
>ntr
picked the fuck up

>>25258167
can you re-edit it with AI or something to make the writing better maybe i will

How do people usually transition from RR to self-publishing? Have a popular book on RR and then publish book 2 on kindle?

>>25258565
have a popular book on RR and have multiple volumes of it and stub each volume as you publish it on kindle

should i read the years of apocalypse now or wait until it’s finished

>>25258576
don't read it. the femc is a whore in book 1 and troons out in book 2.

>>25258471
>nobody reads the fucking blurb
Because they're all the same and usually pure bullshit that blatantly lies to sell the story.
>Dude is thrown into another world with a system
>Armed only with omnipotence, Einstein-level IQ, and infinite growth, he must somehow survive and become the god-king of the multiverse
>the contents are haremslop where dude punches his way to success

>>25258577
wtf really i dont believe u

Any kind of space opera and/or transhumanist winnies out there?
I don't wanna have continue mine

>>25258577
>troons out
lmao, the fmc actually becomes a mmc?

>>25258752
>winnies
No but read Peter F Hamilton's Commonwealth and Salvation series. Both are space opera, both heavily feature transhumanism, both really good scifi and the books are long as fuck. Pandora's Star is over a thousand pages in paperback, and that's just the first book of the Commonwealth series.

>>25258203
as much of a travesty as this example is, the sentiment is correct
thinking as though you're telling your story to someone will make writing much easier

>>25258581
book link?

>>25258480
>ranma fanfic
that's rare. care to share the link? ranma always made me stiff when I would watch it.

>>25257854
The problem with your question is that you're comparing Twilight against the whole literary landscape, an extremely popular novel that is comparatively shit. But webnovels have mostly shit writing, likely on the same tier as Twilight (though I have never read it), popular or not, so the answer to your question will have to be a very popular webnovel that is not known for its good writing.

And for that, I nominate Primal Hunter.

i wanna write a few smut stories, are there resources specifically for this or is it just the same as telling a short story but with erotic words sprinkled into it?

>>25257883
90% of 4chan users have never posted. Therefore, expect that at most 10% of followers will leave a comment. The proportion for readers much lower, since there is a substantial amount of readers without an account.

Then, to generate more engagement, you have to provoke it as well. Readers are more likely to engage with the content if you produce emotions in them, and that can usually only be done with a well-crafted story structure that induces it. For instance, a chapter that builds and resolves. Or a cliff-hanger. And if not a cliffhanger, then something that wants to make you want to find out what happens next.

If your story is flat, it's gonna fall flat.

>>25258907
unironically yes

>low-tier middling adventurer receives a willy wonka golden ticket private message
>it's from the faceless max-level ascended prestiged arch-mage guild leader of the most powerful guild
>she's inviting him to her private dimension or palace or whatever
>aks his friends/family/guildmates/party members whether it's real and whether he should go for it, they're all enthusiastic and say yes
>he goes and finds that there are five other adventurers that all received the same message, all of them seemingly have nothing in common and don't know why they've been summoned
>the mysterious max-level so-and-so is revealed, and the first question she asks of the council of adventurers she has assembled is:
>"how do i max out my friend list?"
>turns out none of the adventurers are special or interesting but they've all hit the cap on friends
>max-level girl poses the question cynically as the friendlist is technically the last thing she has to accomplish and simply wants to chase the next number
>but over the course of the story she learns the value of friendship and human connection and so on through low-stakes slice of life episodes, obliterating threats with ease but struggling to say anything that doesn't sound retarded etc
has it been done

>>25259105
>that is comparatively shit
>Twilight (though I have never read it)
Anon, Twilight is actually written very well. It very much does a good job of dragging the reader into Bella's perspective and letting the reader live vicariously the fantastical situations that make her life interesting and exciting. You shouldn't let your taste in content cloud your judgment when it comes to the technical art of writing and entertaining.
If anything, most of us should go back and do a close reading of Twilight and study how the prose and narrative decisions draw in the reader from page one.
Personally I read half the book waiting in line for a PS3 bundle on black friday seven thousand years ago, because I was bored, and the book was actually quite engaging. I haven't touched it since, but even then I recognized the quality of the writing. I understood why girls liked it. It was certainly better than shit we were forced to read in high school english class like Of Mice and Men, The Scarlet Letter, or The Great Gatsby.

Twilight mainly gets hate because it was massively overrated by teens (girls) who hyped it up as the best thing they'd ever read, when it was the only thing they'd ever read. Same as Harry Potter. But there's a reason that Twilight was so massive when other, similar fiction didn't get nearly as much success, and that reason is the quality of the writing.

>>25259136
no it doesn't

>>25259087
It's not a real story, he was just giving an example.

>>25259135
Honestly the willy wonka as fantasy webnovel idea was pretty interesting, that alone is a good enough premise to give it a shot.
Then the friendslist thing is good, but you have to actually be able to execute on it well. IF you execute it well, I think you could make it big (4fig followers on RR).
I say go for it, and don't make another ideas post on /wng/ until you've launched this one.

>>25259139
You wouldn't know, you haven't read it.

>>25259135
why is she friendless? is she autistic like most of us or has she been a recluse for all her life and thus never develoepd any social skills?
figure out the reason why she has ne friends in the first place and the story will write itself

>>25259135
>"friend list"
>"friendlist"
Have 0 results when searched for on RR.
Time to make a story with that title right now.

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>>25256637
>Only One Year Left—I'll Become a Legendary Uma Musume!
is pretty good, but I couldn't be asked to read it after she (the mc) dies. It felt like the author had a perfect point to end the story, but he just HAD to revive the mc. So I'll recommend you to read it until chapter 56(?), aka until Twilight Song Reincarnates as Gotham Song, and read the plotline that comes after that if you like it.
>Kuroko no Basket: Honored One
>Lord of Mysteries: My Identities Echoes Across Time
>Mob In Khr
>A Gamer's Guide To Beating The Tutorial
This was originally a fanfic for The Tutorial is Too Hard but it was different enough from the source material that the author just made it an original book
>The Girls Loaded the Dating Simulator
>Steven Universe: Broken Peridot.
>Reborn with Steve Stand (Multiverse)
>American Comics: Multiverse of Madness
>Legendary Tinker (Worm/LoL)
>Naruto: The Outsider’s Resolve
>Plan? What Plan? (Worm/Tinker of Fiction)
>Kuroko No Basket: Simulating to Invincibility
>Solaris' Strongest Resonator
>Haikyuu: Zero To Almighty
>That Time I Got Reincarnated With Some Cheats
Is that enough for you?

>>25256637
>>25259150
/lit/ has exactly ONE board-specific rule: no fanfiction.
Please don't talk about fanfiction here.

>>25259113
yep, it's a short story. erotica is 5-10k words at best if you want to be successful. you could somewhat say progression for that is the buildup to the act or sex scene or whatever you have in mind. worldbuilding is absolutely sparse and tasteful for the most part.

romantasy is what you'd tether yourself to if you want it to be longer. It's equally just as smutty, but you're alerting your readers that you actually have an overarching plot in mind. erotica readers for the most part, devour the book in one sitting.

source: me. wrote erotica back then but got tired because it's formulaic and short. readers don't mind the same setting in fact they prefer it, further exemplifying the 'Wow, there's two cakes!' meme in my head when I first saw it.

>>25259150
Yeah I'll check them out thanks

Anyone keeping up with Shadow Slave? How do you guys feel about the last couple of chapters...

>>25259136
>[Twilight] was certainly better than shit we were forced to readi n high school english class like Of Mice and Men, The Scarlet Letter, or The Great Gatsby.
sasuga bait-kun

>>25259174
>shadow slave
>webnovel
ignored. it's the modern edgier percy jackson but in a more bloated format with how webnovel's contract works.

The demon queen wants to live is written exactly like that Dune by Brandosando joke, holy kek, it's the most annoying shit

>>25259160
ty for the insights, my idea was to have a few separate stories in the same universe, this way i can do a small amount of worldbuilding in each of them, this way i can have the focus on sex and good lore
I was thinking around 5-6k words for each of them so i'm glad this is within reasonable boundaries

>>25259174
I caught up at the end of last year, and it's not really that good. I liked everything up to, and including, the pyramid nightmare arc. After that things have frankly gone downhill

>>25259194
Yeah, I thought when the war peaked it was alright but definitely not as good as the peak of antartica and earlier.

>>25259183
I hate to agree. Twilight is dreck but most of the mandated school reading is sub-shit. Meticulously picked either to propagandize the kids or make them hate reading.

>>25259174
shadow slave is peak but i haven’t read it

>>25259133
so I really should read TYOA

>>25259135
sounds kino, pls include autistic elf yuri sex

>>25259262
This should be the thread motto

>>25259135
>has it been done
>deliberately derivative premise
I mean...
combining willy wonka, MLA, and komi can't communicate does come together to something novel. it's a charming idea, write it
friendslop is a strangely underrepresented point of appeal in webnovels. you get power fantasies, harem romantic/sexual indulgence, sol slow living cozyslop, but nothing that tries to convey the comfort of making and having friends

>>25259135
>>he goes and finds that there are five other adventurers that all received the same message
Remove this part and make it a romance

>>25259183
In terms of being entertaining and engaging readers aged 14-18, yes, Twilight IS better. It even has themes and pedagogical value from a literary perspective.
Yes, the other books I listed ARE good and considered classics for a reason. They're not appropriate for high school students, however, given that such students don't have the proper literary foundation to appreciate them.
It would have been better to just study Greek and Roman literature, to at least start getting a foundation for proper English literature down the road. Half of Shakespear can't even be understood without a foundation in Latin classics, and at least the Iliad and the Odyssey are interesting without any foundation in anything needed.
Don't even get me started on the choice between The Handmaid's Tale or The Kite Runner... If I wasn't already a scifi nerd by that point, that WOULD have put me off reading for good.

>>25259304
It's already fantasy, might as well go whole-hog and depict a purely platonic mixed company friend group without any sexual tension whatsoever. It's what people crave.

>>25259315
The People crave hot and sweaty elf sex.

My novel has a lesbian elf ear nibbling scene in it because I am too cowardly to write explicit sex

>>25258907
>Modifying her soul so that her body presented as a man’s, though, changed everything about how she felt. Her body moved differently, felt different, and every time she opened her mouth to talk, the voice that came out surprised her—never mind the change in sexual organs.

>>25259358
That line is hilarious because in the 70 somethign chapters I read all characters were written like men.

>>25259135
You basically took the socially inept archmage trend and made it the central point of the story. You could actually be onto something here. I'd read it.

>have a title
>have a cast of characters
>have a vague theme
>can't settle on a setting or plot
>can't even decide what kind of magic system feels right
I spend basically all my free time daydreaming. I'm going to become mentally ill. imagine being in another world- no not that one, this one- no not that one- you're standing in the middle of a field and the sun is warm- you're waking up in your cramped apartment and look outside to the sky has cracked open- you're in the main hall of a monastery contemplating the cycle of life, death, and rebirth- contemplating the collective consciousness-the realm of forms- and you obtain power as your soul evolves- god reveals himself- you carve your mind into an ideal- you carve it from monsters- you carve it from others- and
AAAAAHHHH
ALL I DO IS DAYDREAM ALL I DO IS IMAGINE
NOTHING IS RIGHT WHY DOES NOTHING FEEL RIGHT

>>25259135
It's being done at the rate of like 20 fictions per day

bro i need the fuckign elf sex willy wonka autistic strong heroine wanting to max her friendlist novel NOW go and fucking write the first chapter
>>25259486
link plZ

Why did an anon have an actual good idea and then decide to post it here of all places? Like it IS actually a good idea and will get popular if he has even a modicum of writing skill.

>>25259135
I’ll read it

>>25259521
Ask AI to write it for you

>>25259336
winty-kun...

Arlen stared at her. “Zero.”

“Yes.”

“And you’re trying to increase the limit so you can add more.”

“Yes.”

He paused, studying her. “You haven’t added anyone.”

“I attempted to,” she said.

“And?”

“No successful additions.”

“Why not?”

A slight hesitation. “…I do not know.” It was the first uncertain thing she’d said.

Arlen rubbed his face. “Okay. Walk me through it.”

She nodded. “I receive requests. I open them. I consider them. I do not accept.”

“Why?”

“There is insufficient data.”

“For what?”

“Evaluation. Compatibility.”

He stopped himself. “That’s not how people use a friend list.”

“It is a list of selected individuals. Selection implies criteria.”

“Not really. It’s for convenience. Communication. Partying up.”

“That does not require selection.”

“It requires some. Just not strict rules.”

She went quiet, as if rerunning the logic. “…Then the system is incomplete.”

“No. Just not strict.”

Another pause. She looked at all of them, one by one. “…You have friends.”

“Yeah.”

“…How?”

The question landed differently. Arlen exhaled. “You just add people.”

“I tried.”

“Then accept one. Next request you get, accept it.”

“…Without evaluation?”

“Yes.”

“That would be inefficient. It introduces variance.”

“It’s a friend list, not a resource system.”

Silence. She glanced down briefly, then back up. “…I will attempt this. If the limit increases, I will inform you.”

Arlen started to object, then stopped. “…Sure.”

She nodded once, decisive, then turned and vanished.

The hall remained. The six of them stood there in silence. After a moment, the robed man said, “…So we were summoned to tell someone to make a friend.”

Arlen looked at the empty space. “…Yeah.”

A pause.

“…That might be harder than anything else she’s done.”

>>25259556
where is the promised elf sex?

>>25259556
oof… yikes forever!

>>25259521
>>25259527
>>25259533
i'm writing it but my prose isn't great, i'll publish the first chapter when it's done
i already have something else i'm writing so i don't really care about building a backlog for this (hence why i dumped the idea in here instead)

>>25259135
but whats the answer? Why do these unremarkable adventurers have maxed friend lists?

>>25259556
AI still can’t write for shit I see.

>>25259567
i have it figured out, but you'll have to read it to see :^)

>>25259567
Maxing friend list isn’t that big of a deal is it? I have it maxed on most of the games that have that feature

>>25259575
that's the point anon

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>>25259575
friend collectors deserve the rope.

>>25259579
But why is this anon asking about the reason behind it >>25259567

What would Spectral Soul do in this situation?

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Does this place give advice to newbie writers if they post on RR?

>>25259700
sure
refer to The Precepts

>>25258752
The Infinite Realm webnovelist has a 12-book space 'opera', and a(n unfinished) 4 book mecha in space series.

>>25259700
more or less
what are your goals? what is it that you want help with?

>>25259700
No, go to >>>/lit/wg/

>>25259720
What are these precepts?
>>25259723
At present, just basic prose and scene structure. I'm not good at translate the scene in my mind into words, or how to fit it onto a larger story. These are the most severe deficiencies; everything else is surely lacking, but the basics are the most.

>>25259732
read more, write more, do as much as the other. It will come naturally to you in no time.

>>25259732
intentionality is the best way to improve at anything. in the context of writing, just have a specific intention with your prose and scenes
>what is the function of the prose in this line/paragraph/scene/chapter?
>what is the function of this scene?
the more you improve, the more deeply you'll be able to interrogate these questions. for now, don't get too in your head
>I want to inform the reader on my lore
>I want to characterize my self insert as a cool guy
these are perfectly fine functions
as a beginner, the best thing you can do is just write/read. write whatever, read whatever. so long as you're doing it regularly you'll improve
>I'm anxious and self conscious about my abilities
you just gotta tank that. every writer was shit at some point and if they weren't they were a freak and not worth comparing yourself to

>precepts
common sense advice to maximize one's chance at popularity and financial success. not relevant until you have something written to upload

>>25259760
Good advice, thanks ^^

>>25259582
I was asking for a friend

>>25259556
>Arlen
Is that a common name for ai to pick? I got that when I tried to gen a story too

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to be clear i'm not this guy >>25259732

here's my "protagonist loses his ordinary life and moves towards being a man of action" scene
I'm not yet sure what to name him, maybe something gay like Adrian Cyrus Schwarz or some shit. It feels like this protagonist should have a "my mother wanted a unique name but dad wouldn't let her name me something retarded like Jaxsyn"

>They sneered at him, as if they were not also on the chopping block when the next round of compulsory russian roulette came. But right now, they were not on the gallows, so they only knew contempt and pity for their former coworker. A few of them owed him, money. He’d be sure to collect from those who failed to hide their schadenfreude. Take it to small claims court if it came down to it, maybe pay a junkie to beat the shit out of that mustache’d bald fuck with the smug grin.

>[NAME] sneered, too. How could he not? He’d watched the humiliation ritual time and time again. This was just playing it out, no less performative on his end than the company’s. He knew that if he needed, say, a pacemaker or a synthetic liver, the company would offer to subsidize it just so they could shut it down when they laid him off. Just so they could make him suffer for not being a perfectly dedicated corporate drone. And probably because it was the only thing besides kids that made some higher-up’s shriveled dick hard.

>And, in turn, the company knew that, given the opportunity, he would happily throw the switch to detonate the building’s micro-reactor. The hatred was very much mutual. It was just that the company higher-ups lived under the misapprehension that they were safe because they had security and titanium skulls. Well, they were safe, from him at least. He didn’t have the means or the intention to toss his life away over a layoff, not the first nor last one. But there were people who would, and he would celebrate if one succeeded.

>He could feel middle-management and their walking talking fleshlights from HR looking down on him from the conference room. The glass was polarized, opaque from outside, but time and time again, he’d seen the same scenario from inside the office building. Poor souls laid off, and those scumsuckers sneering, counting up their bonuses, already planning the new hires, because it was more profitable to churn through employees. He couldn’t even bring himself to be angry, not any more than he could be angry when his coffee spilled or a rat blew itself up chewing through the AC wires.

after this point he lives off his savings for a few weeks looking for work, then decides to just get certified as a taxi/delivery driver. the justification for human taxi/delivery drivers inna cyberpunk city is obviously "robots are expensive and get stolen and you have to maintain them, human drivers handle their own shit"

>>25259793
shid forgot the preface notes

>goes to work
>goes to desk
>locked out
>told he was selected in the recent round of layoffs and to get his shit and get out with a timer ticking down to security being called

>>25259793
oh uh, i somehow missed the bit between the third and fourth paragraph where he leaves the building. i could swear i had it written somewhere, but why it's not where it belongs i'm not sure.

>>25259793
if you're writing a boog/killdozer type story you better fictionalize the fuck out of everything if you want to have a shot at not having some sperg getting you banned

>>25257018
crazy that there isn't more stuff like this. I need more

>>25259793
>reeee society post
eh, I could be into it
I think the hardest part of these kinds of stories is writing convincing dismality. if the reader isn't convinced that the world is horrific and the suffering is painful, then the perspective (and potentially actions) of the protagonist will be dismissed as a tantrum. which is fine if you're going more American Psycho and the reader is supposed to be looking at the protagonist from afar
you've mentioned this is basically a Taxi Driver rewrite so I assume you want the world and life in it to feel as repulsive as the protagonist sees it to be. not sure if it's hitting that note yet but I'm looking forward to if it idoes
keep writing

>>25259793
taxi driver carl

>>25259874
>>25259879

It's not intended to be a direct Taxi Driver expy since that wouldn't work for a winnie but it's in that general area. At least the reason he becomes a protagonist and the evil he will fight against will be systemic in nature.
I'll give him some kind of chronic illness that the system makes him jump through hoops for even low grade treatment, stuff like that.

I don't have a great deal of action written out yet, I'm mostly hamming out the as you said "reeee society" sections, the motivation.

a longer extract from elsewhere

The idea of the virtuous man of violence, all that was bullshit. There was no such thing as a crusader. Just the dogs of the corpostate and the leeches on the underbelly, snatching up folks from the sidewalk to strip the chrome out of their skulls, the kidneys out of their backs, the hearts from their ribcages, or else to torture them and terrorize them for adrenalized blood from which to produce the drug of youth, Adrenochrome. Oh sure, it had an official name, a codename, and it was in actually a dozen different drugs, and adrenalized blood had very little actual role in its production. But everyone knew what it really was, everyone called it Adrenochrome, and the self-made vampires who sought it had a taste for “the real thing,” made with the blood of real torture victims, rather than synthetically adrenalized alternatives.

He understood why. How could he not understand? He’d worked in an office, after all. He knew damn well that the managerial class, the parasite class, viewed the world as some sort of sick zero-sum game, that if those below them were not suffering and losing, then they themselves could neither win nor enjoy themselves...

full: https://pastebin.com/h0yuvmP1

>>25259893
note fucked up copypasting the pastebin continues directly on from the post

>>25259836
>stuff like this
artifacts of evil? attacks on the human spirit? vile putrid filth?

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>>25259908
litrpg smut with male MC, femdom, chastity and feminization yeah

>>25259914
>femdom
I would be willing to put the rest aside and call you brother if not for the unmentioned NTR

>>25259932
It barely even qualifies as ntr since the MC and the girl aren't even together, but I have to admit that for me the whole thing peaked at chapter 8

>need to start hustling for shoutout swaps again
>remember I need to fix my blurb
Fuuuuuuck there goes all my motivation. I know it'll only take like thirty minutes but I'm never in the mood. I hate editing.

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How much do you need to have planned in order to start a story? I had a wild dream today that I want to adapt into a small web novel, but since it was a dream, I only have the start of it and the overall premise, but I don't know how would I even progress it after a few chapters.
I have a starting premise and a semblance of what's gonna happen in the middle of it, but I have no idea on how things will end out or how things are going to progress up to any of those points. I don't have any world built for it either and I've never written before.

I know everything's against me on this one, but I really want to get this one outta my head and into the world.

>>25259973
write at least 20k postable words first
bare min

>>25259973
An idea isn't a story. You don't have a story.
A story has a beginning, middle, and END. It also has a setting, characters, and the plot (which is the beginning/middle/end).
If you can't tell the entire story in one sentence, you don't have a story.
>a boy is informed he's a wizard, goes to magical school for 7 years, and ultimately defeats the dark wizard who killed his parents when he was a baby

>>25259973
>need
nothing. you can just make it all up on the fly if you want
depends how much you care about quality. writing something decent is much easier if you think things through first. spontaneity and whimsy can beget its own kind of quality but if you're not well practiced in writing and energized with inspiration then just sending it will probably result in a disorganized mess. which is perfectly fine actually
>a small web novel
because if it's small you can easily just go through a draft process. just write it out and then rewrite it into something more sensible. editing can fix anything so long as it exists
personally I like to know the theme, the most relevant characters, the setting, and a vague sense of the plot figured out before writing. I find these are enough to fill in the gaps while writing. I'll substitute theme for inspiration and plot for narrative intent depending on the piece

>>25259986
>If you can't tell the entire story in one sentence, you don't have a story
financebro post
not everything can be (or should be) reduced to an easy to promote elevator pitch and certainly not all stories

>>25259973
if you mean how much you need to have written to publish, like 30-40k as a backlog since you want your early adopters to have a lot to sink their teeth into
if you mean how much backstory/worldbuilding you need before even writing the opening line then very little, you only need to know how you want it to open (narrow in on characters after setting a scene, cold open on a bit of dialogue, cold open on an action/consequence of something or whatever) then just keep asking "what's the most plausible next step to my desired destination for this scene" and the rest tends to write itself from there
if you're really anxious about the prospect of writing a lot of garbage before finally settling on an idea that will contradict all the garbage you've written, then plot out your premise with an AI first and have it give you prompting questions to lead your imagination to plausible answers, that might help you charter the paths to your desired conclusions as you write

>>25257900
Spacebattles has a VERY active feedback base
idk why no one in this useless thread helped you

>>25259986
I agree with you but how the fuck do you summarize Dune? That shit feels to convoluted to pitch in a sentence.

>>25259986
>If you can't tell the entire story in one sentence, you don't have a story.
You can distill basically anything into a single sentence if you try hard enough or just ask an AI

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>>25259982
Per chapter or in total? Probably in total since I want it to be small, but I don't know. I'm completely new to this, as you can imagine.
>>25259986
Maybe you're right. At the moment I only have
>middle-aged (or maybe old) pirate rescues a kid from a pillaged sinking ship, plans to use it for ransom but has a change of heart after learning more about the kid
And here's where I don't have an ending yet. Do I make the kid a powerful political piece? Do I make him a magical macguffin instead? Maybe this is something I have to ask myself during the week instead of asking strangers about it.
>>25259990
Alright, I should probably think about the setting before trying to write a chapter, or else I'll end up with a shitload of plot holes.
>>25259995
I really don't want to use AI at all in the whole process, if possible. I know it's only for a shortcut and not for the writing itself, but if it's gonna be the first thing I write, I want it to be the real deal from start to finish so I can understand every part of the process.

Well, thanks for the responses. I needed to talk about this with someone and get it out of my chest. Now I'm gonna hit the good ol' notepad and start gathering ideas before I start to write a chapter or two.

>>25260010
Explicitly just the first book? Change around a few sentences in OP's post to son's noble family getting overthrown, works with the desert natives to reclaim his dukedom, and overthrows his tyrannical uncle and the emperor. There ya go.

>>25260008
Spacebattles is full of faggots and snowflakes

>>25260020
>I really don't want to use AI at all in the whole process
based real human bean
>kidnapped by pirates plot from the perspective of the pirate
into it
have fun writing. it's a fun hobby once you get over the mental hurdle and just do it

>>25260020
In total, so you can see if the story has any legs at all and so you can dump it in your initial run or have backlog for patreon or whatever. It's just good to have backlog.

>>25260008
We did though. A few of us even mentioned spacebattles. Just because it has a more active readerbase doesn't necessarily mean you'll wake up one day to 100 new msgs every day there. Not every story gets lucky, there's threads that have dozens of individual posts from readers and then there's no shortage of others that only have the author posting. It's borderline unfair, but that's life. You're either writing something people want to read, and maybe get shit loads of readers in droves to the point you wish you didn't, or you go literary exhibitionist and get grand total of 0 reader discussions and maybe '5' Readers on your ticker. There's no in between. Unless of course you're one of the big name users and people can't help but rim your hairy unwashed asshole, but not everyone can be a Revandagger or a Seras unfortunately.

spacebattles is a shithole that enforces the strawman known as "necroposting".

>>25260020
20k in total
If you're writing somewhere like spacebattles you can get by on 2.5k words a chapter provided you upload frequently enough

Here's my tip: Start within knowing how your story ends (unless if you plan on going for an extended story line); that will save you a lot of time and stress, and you can change stuff in the middle of your story to fit the proper ending you wish for

Also know what your upload schedule will be beforehand

>>25260087
>>25260020

at least start writing with an idea of the ending for your first volume or major arc

>>25260082
yeah it comes up time to time on the trending thread. every so often someone necro posts a old story and gets banned, and because of that bump new surge of ratings get counted in the statistics. sucks when you think about it, you go through all that pain and effort to make a story, finally finish it, and then it'll probably just get forgotten about entirely, and some poor sod who liked it a lot enough to leave a comment gets fucking clapped because of it, and your thread most likely locked to avoid it happening again. fucking brutal.

>>25260104
yep, sounds like absolute cancer.

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>>25260029
Thanks. I hope I'm not plagiarizing something without knowing, like the premise sounds a lot like Treasure Planet's plot but it's not even going in the same direction, I swear.
>>25260039
>>25260087
Huh. I had the idea of dumping everything once I finished it, but maybe dropping a chapter every week or something like that would be less overwhelming for the reader.
>>25260092
Since it's gonna be my first try, I feel like I should wrap it all up once I get to the climax. Maybe keep a couple of questions unanswered in case I want to revisit the setting. I'll keep it in mind.

>>25257845
>Maybe trying using it as training wheels.
>Use ai to help you write a few generic junk stories
That's a great idea. Thanks.
>>25258203
I was never good at that, but damn, trying to put myself in the frame of mind if trying to tell a story to a friend does make it easier. Thanks a lot!

>>25259732
If you’re a complete beginner, then you need to start by resisting your urge to explain information or write “good prose” and instead let the scene play out like a movie. Then, after you start to get the hang of it, you need to remember that a book is, in fact, not a movie and begin sprinkling in those expositions.
Learning this way feels unintuitive, but you need that push-and-pull effect. You need the underlying structure of action and dialogue first before you can layer description and exposition around it.
If you try to do things the other way around, you’ll end up like /wg/ writers, who can string together beautiful sentences, but can’t tell a story to save their lives.

>>25260246
>instead let the scene play out like a movie
This post is a roundabout way of describing books as "kino" (film) and should be ignored.

>>25260246
>let go of ego and expectations and just write (like a movie)
a bit confused seeing as most shit writing is caused by treating the medium of prose like its film but the sentiment is okay
>sprinkling in those expositions
...narration? do you mean narration?

>>25260264
If I meant narration, I would’ve written narration.
I mean that thing beginner writers do where they explain the entire history of the Seven Kingdoms in chapter one, or write a full biography of the main character’s great-great-grandpa before they’ve even grounded the character in a specific time and place.
And, of course, the people who spend half a chapter describing the MC’s opinions on the weather before getting to the point are even worse.
And no, I’m not one of those “show, don’t tell” people. A writer eventually needs to learn how to weave all of these things together. But learning how to balance them takes time, and the process can feel like wading through a quagmire. One wrong step, and you get stuck in the “please, just one more rewrite” mentality forever. It’s a noob trap.

>>25258428
Dropped

>>25259986
>A story has a beginning, middle, and END.
Important to point out that "beginning, middle, ehhh I'll figure it out as I go" is a common problem with webfiction. The serial format encourages loosely meandering through story arcs, which means a lot of content doesn't actually contribute to building towards some meaningful climax. It's just filler. Sometimes its cool, entertaining filler, but that doesn't make it good for the reader or the writer. But when you're forced by the algorithm to pump out X words per day and you're functionally forbidden from doing a real comprehensive editing or revision pass on your work until it goes to publishing a whole volume, that's what results.

Really curious to see if Max Level Archmage's first volume fixed some of that meandering, because boy howdy is a lot of those first 80 chapters pretty unrelated to the actual threat!

>>25260594
>fixed
it's a feature

>>25259973
I outline my entire story before I start writing. I don't adhere to the outline religiously, but knowing what needs to happen in this chapter, and what to write for the next chapter pretty much absolves me from ever dealing with writer's block.

I think the problem a lot of writers have is that their "idea" for a story actually doesn't contain any elements of a story, like characters or plot or conflict. So when they sit down with their million dollar idea they have to work all these things out and halt.

>>25260682
I've been thinking pretty hard today to make an outline on how things are gonna happen and writing the big plot points on a notepad. I'll try to finish that rough time line during the next weeks and then I'll embellish the shit out of it. I'm already at 1/3 of the story and I'm already struggling with it. I have the big happenings now in paper, point A, to B, to C, but not enough narrative vehicles to connect them. Maybe it will keep coming to me in my dreams, part by part, chapter by chapter.

>>25260594
>which means a lot of content doesn't actually contribute to building towards some meaningful climax. It's just filler. Sometimes its cool, entertaining filler, but that doesn't make it good for the reader or the writer.
As a reader this is why I read web fiction in the first place. This "filler" is worldbuilding and background information. Everything in a story doesn't have to only contribute to the climax. We all know how a story is going to end based on the start. The climax is never all that interesting, this "filler" is though.

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>>25260751
>We all know how a story is going to end based on the start.
W-we do?

>>25260801
Nah, anon is talking out of his ass. In most wns, it's impossible to even recognize anything resembling a plotline within the first 100 chapters, never mind what is the objective or where it will end

>>25260594
Part of the technique of writing an indeterminate length serial fiction WELL is being able to expand the middle as necessary until it's time to wrap it up, and then be able to wrap it up in a reasonable amount of time. There's a number of tricks for this, and manga authors demonstrate a lot of them.

For western web fiction in particular, a good one is to make the point of a story the character's arc and conflict, and then expand the middle with worldbuilding and the problems of other side characters that have minor affects on the main character's arc. Then, when it's time to wrap up, the main character undergoes their final crisis, zips around nipping loose threads, and then resolves their personal conflict, the end.
>oh but what about the political struggle between X and Y kingdoms?
lol not the point. In fact it's better to leave a lot of stuff unresolved because it gives readers room to imagine how it might have been resolved. And if you want you can reuse the setting for future, more tightly focused stories.

Obviously most web serial authors don't stick the landing, but then most authors don't write GOOD literature. Most of it is shit, some of it is mediocre, a little bit is mid, and only a very small amount is libro.

>>25259986
Or you could approach it like an ongoing series where you establish a core premise, then develop the plot one arc at a time. I highly doubt SpongeBob, Spider-Man, or Monster Hunter have definitive endings planned. They just keep going as long as they’re profitable.
For example, you could create an MC whose life goal is to hunt and cook every legendary sea monster in the world. Each arc would begin with him arriving at a new location, meeting that arc’s supporting cast, learning about the local monster, and beginning the hunt. After a series of twists and revelations, he finally kills and cooks the monster, wraps up the conflict, and sails off toward the next adventure.
Each arc could also have its own distinct flavor. One might be an island survival story, another a pirate adventure, another a ghost ship mystery, another a murder mystery aboard a cruise liner, and another an expedition to a lost city beneath the sea. As long as you could keep drawing inspiration from/ripping off other pieces of media, you could keep creating new arcs indefinitely.