If Solipsism is true, why can't I (the solipsist) fly? It really makes no sense.
because you are a fake solipsist
>>25271564Okay nigga where is John Solipsism then?
>>25271562You fall and call it flying
>>25271564This. >If "X" is true then why "Y" doesn't happen right now. Because you're larping in bad faith OP, you would attempt levitation and then would be able to fly later on if you wanted to do so and really understood Solipsisim. You still, are capable of having nightmares; why? Is all in your head bro, why you keep having those? Just imagine something else.
>>25271587It’s a very pagan mentality
>>25271587Why do I have to wait later? Why can it not be right now (pretty gay answer desu)?
>>25271593I can answer this but I’m not going to
>>25271592Pagan in what sense? Panteistic? Non-christian?>>25271593If solipsisim is true, then the answer is what you think the answer IS right now. What you conclude. For a solipsisim, the only proof of anything "possible" is simply that you can imagine doing so, so you can intend it and experience it. Reality is solipsistic anyway, everyone who pretend is not is just larping, and people who accept it do so while keeping the Solipsist experience to themselves for practical living.
>>25271601What a load of sophism bro, not even definitive with what you're saying.
>>25271593stand on your bed and jump to the ground. you just flyed. problem?
>>25271601In the sense of idolatry
>>25271613you are bowing down to your own imagination called god.
>>25271632Who called it "God", you? Who defined these terms, you?
>>25271617Things like worship and idolatry and personal preferences rather than "requirements", rules that you made because you feel like it. The structural reality is impersonal. >>25271643No, (You) do. If you want your "god" to be some arbitrary deity, and adhere to some arbitrary tradition, with arbitrary dogma, and declare it the only "objective" "truth" ever, you can have it, and it will be true, but just for you. Otherwise, if you want to go to the core of it all, you acknowledge what is behind all those things, always has and always will be. The word of God is the imagination of man. This universe is nothing but the dream of the undivided consciousness that underlies the world from within us all.
>>25271601>experience to themselvesHow would you know?
>>25271562Because your subconscious is stopping you.Which is also the reason why it doesn't matter if trees really exist, all that matters is if I can manipulate the world at will, if I can't it's still external for all intents and purposes.But there being no other minds would make me sad.
>>25271662>This universe is nothing but the dream of the undivided consciousness that underlies the world from within us all.Anon, this isn't solipsism.
>>25271662 It's closer to non-dual idealism or descrjbing some form of idealistic monism. But it wouldnt strictly be solipsism.
>>25271662Oh my goodness you annoying sophiatic negro, if what I practice, that which you call arbirtry, is true then that is contradictory to what you have just said later on in your paragraph>Otherwise, if you want to go to the core of it all, you acknowledge what is behind all those things, always has and always will be.BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO CONTRADICTORY TRUTHS. Either it is true and real or it is not. Saying that "it is for me" is incoherent.Define your metaphysic because this is a sad conversation, am I created (thus subject to the First Cause) or did I always exist? If the latter, why?
>>25271677It is, kind of. Fundamentally speaking, there's no one else besides you, and you're on your own from your perspective, other people being part of your dream. But, alas, it also means that your current person, including your body, thoughts and personality are all also part of the dream. I would go beyond Solipsism, like an Acosmistic Solipsism, where reality is imagination, all made of awareness, and conciusness is what "we" really are. The thing of interest here is what solipsism points at, just like Non duality (no distinction between the two, when you do explore them by yourself).
>>25271593>>25271613>>25271643>>25271692>namefag>iphone>tranime reaction imagesYep into the filter it goes.
>>25271700Me??? :<
>>25271692>Define your metaphysic because this is a sad conversation, am I created (thus subject to the First Cause) or did I always exist? If the latter, why?NTA but as i wrote here >>25271693 it's all dreaming. You always existed, because what you are is the "eyes" that look out from the perspective of a character, rather than the person that you're "playing as" right now. Conciussness, aware-presence, an undivisible container, where the experience is "all mind" or imagination. The overall picture is what Watts and John Paolucci says about it: God forgetting itself, lost in its own creation, fragmented as many, rediscover his true self in an journey to fulfillment in the expansion of its own awareness, while always remaining whole and complete, still dreaming. Is a mind stretching paradox because even discovering that its a dream is "God dreaming that he's finding out that its all a dream", so is a matter of accept it once it makes sense for you. This all is more digestable when you think it from Oniric logic, taking thoughts as potential experiences you can navigate with intention.
>>25271713What is "dream"?You're the only one that gave me more or less a proper explanation, so surely you could tell me.
>>25271727imagine a worldwhere is the imagination?where is the world?who is imagining?who is asking?
>>25271745What is a world?
>>25271748the world is me (you)
>>25271727Good question. Is basically experience. What is the "dream" we have at night but an experience that "happens" inside of us? Inside of "our heads"? When we are lucid in a dream, we wake up to it and thoughts become immediatly responsive to our enviroment (tho, they already are, fundamentally, as dreams are realized imagination). This world also happens "inside of us", of our conciusness, as we traverse and expand in awareness and accumulated knowledge. Knowing your-self as God opens the possibility of intending events, deciding, and sterring possibilities to a desired destination. However, it may be hard to see at first, due to our habits, experiential debris, assumptions and beliefs about reality, as we are the only ones holding ourselves back, always, from what could happen or not. But recognizing that everything imaginable is already available to us (no division between thoughts and the world, as "the world" is an immersive thought itself) we admit that everything is possible, including our inherent psychic potential. Dreams, as we know it currently, are the true face of "reality". Solipsism help us to lever that lesson to also acknowledge that we dream everything, including others, but beyond it, we also dream ourselves. After all, we don't carry our bodies with us when we have OBEs, but have an array of them to navigate higher frequencies realms. Yet, we remain present, undivided, just experiencing more, "dreaming" forever.
Daily reminder the solipsism, gnosticism, and simulation theory are being shilled on 4chan to encourage alienated, paranoid mindsets that can be easily railroaded towards right-wing conspiracy theories.
>>25271762Explain your reasoning then. Solipsism is helpful when you actually explore it. As an idea it may be frigthening because of the contrast with our previous materialistic conditioning, but as a reality is pure freedom, your best friend. And besides, is how things always has been; ignoring it or facing it, it doesn't change who we really are.
>>25271770Exactly, solipsism shifts the locus of control internally, it means that we are responsible for our own lives and our own happiness. Paranoia and conspiracy theory encourage the opposite of this, that there's some scapegoat for all your problems, that everyone is against you.
>>25271762Trvke
>>25271762bitch, turn on the TV. Go to Reddit, go outside. THERE IS NO SHILLING IN THOSE PLACES... oh yeah I LOVE GOOD INFORMATION FROM TRUSTED SOURCESSSSSSSSS
>>25271757This is just Monism thus making the conclusion that Solipsism itself is a lie as there is more than me. This is not true Solipsism. >OBEsThat kind of breaks the whole point of I being the only being as it proves everyone else has completely different souls (which also goes against the word Solipsism, hence making it seem like you're being a psued'). Plus the CIA themselves already explained all of this in better detail in Stargate. Why not just believe in Perennialism and Pluralism instead of making up your own belief and ultimately sounding stupid?
To end off this thread, no one was actually able to answer me on the flying question and had to resort into redefining what "Solipsism" even is. Even though my question was rhetorical, I would still be aware of the IDEA that I am the only being that exists and that I created existence, as such there shouldn't be a reason why I cannot fly as the only answers I got was that: 'I didnt believe hard enough (in yourself?) that's why you can't fly!'. Pretty much a brain-dead discussion.
>>25271693What you’re describing isn’t really solipsism anymore. Solipsism is specifically about the self alone being knowable or real. But once you say the personal self is also part of the dream and that there is one underlying awareness behind all perspectives, you’ve already moved into non-dual idealism or monism.In strict solipsism, there is my mind alone. In your model, even ‘my mind’ is not ultimately real, only awareness itself is.That’s almost the opposite direction philosophically.Also you have to be moee specific when you refer to 'you'.You as in the 'personality/ ego'You as in the psycho- physicalYou as the witnessing consciousnessYou as in the AbsoluteYou as in the present stream of experience. Because each one is a commitment. If you say you as in the ego/personality or what we can call the components of 'my mind' - then that is classical solipsismBut you said 'your body, thoughts and personality are also part of the dream - now the ego-self is unreal and dependent. This is your position which is..again much closer philosophically to idealistic monism or a non-dual school of thought. Anon, its fine if you don't want a 'God' figure, there is plenty of schools od thoughts you'd enjoy. Like daoism particularly Zhuang Zhou (Zhuangzi).ZenYogācāra being perhaps the closest to your views. There are plenty of philosophies where reality is appearance-like, dream-like, relational or mind-dependent Without concluding:Therefore my individual ego is the only real thing.
>>25271562You need to believe
>>25272586you're literally implying there is you and also the world and you should be able to fly in the world because you should be able to control the world as if the world and you are not one. so basically you ask "if solipsism is true then why [insert reasoning that starts with non-solipsistic logic to debunk solipsism]
>>25272573>>25272586>This is not true solipsisim.Then maybe is a language thing, or we understand solipsism differently ultimately. The only reality i experience is my own, the only perspective i experience is my own (yes, even if i see reality trought your eyes, i would still be "me"), everything that is "real" is whatever lies in my conciusness and my conciusness alone, and everything else is make believe. Don't know how to call that. But really, in practice, nonduality, subjective idealism and solipsisim are exactly the same: No externalization of reality, the experience being all imagination, no separation between conciusness and the world, etc. It only "sounds" distinc if you haven't stepped outside yourself to actually live those things.>Different soulsThere are no "souls" as such beyond the concept of them. There's only the singular presence dreaming stuff.>The CIA explained...Explanations are whatever. Specially for phenomenons that are 100% subjectives like OBEs. And they are imaginary as well (yet real, just as anything thinkable because is all imagination anyway). >Why not just believe instead of making up...Everything is made up, every single explanation about experience. I don't really "believe" in things, i assert them in a certain way and experiences follows, because it's all imagination. The only thing that is not is presence, which imagines an explanation or a model and then filters the dream to allign it once the shift on perspective has been made. Of course it sounds stupid because you think that everything "valid" has to be written before in a book and peer reviewed or have an extensive wikipedia article or something maybe? Not really, i can made up everything because Solipsisim, the way i see it, make me as the final arbiter, interpreter, and frankly, only "my" own conclusions matter in my experience.>>25272669>Non dual idealism or monismReally, no difference at all in practice. Solipsism just sound "rude" rather than "hippie".
>>25272669 (cont from last reply)>In your model, even ‘my mind’ is not ultimately real, only awareness itself is. That’s almost the opposite direction philosophically.As i pointed out, it's maybe a language thing. What do you think "you" are?>Also you have to be moee specific when you refer to 'you'.Yes! This. What "i am" is the presence that underlies the world, because without my presence, there's no world at all. Of course, existences is more than any immediate time and space here: Everything already exist, because everything imaginable is already possible and present in imagination, in a thought-conceptual space, the only thing that's not possible is divide myself, as conciussness only exists as an undivide whole. Conciussness is the background of experience, that presence. Try this experiment: https://rentry.org/mmrzdzetI'm not my body, my thoughts, perception, etc. I'm the presence that underlies "the world", the dream itself, and yet i am the dream and the dreamer, the dream being an extension of me, of my awareness. What i experience is the formatting of my own mind. >This is your position which is..again much closer philosophically to idealistic monism or a non-dual school of thought. Is a variety of things, because what i referring to is Subjective Idealism, Nonduality and Solipsism at the same time.>Subjective Idealism: "Objective reality doesn't exists at all, and it's all a dream, realized imagination, and all of my experience is my own mental landscape".>Nondualism: "I'm not separated from the world. The universe exist as an extension of myself, just like everything else across my perception, in apparent separation, and yet undivided: My conciuss-awareness, immediate experience, thoughts, it's all connected under an absolute whole; that whole, is I Am".>Solipsism: "Only MY presence is real. Only MY conciussness is real. I am my world, and beyond my world, and that perennial thing across eternity, always dreaming the universe, and experiencing forever, even if it forgets his totality, i am that. No one else besides me, all alone in my private dream".All those are aspects, attributes, of my own way to see things, all of them pointing out at the same "thing". How to call it? You would know. I like to call it "Acomistic Solipsism", another good name is "Oneirosophy". All these philosophical ideas intercept in the same fundamental core: No externalization of reality, conciussness as the only thing that's real and unchanging, the world being your own mind, and we navigate experience trough intention and imagination. So i don't exclude them, but merge them myself. In this way, we live in our own self contained dreams, there are no individuals and we're all one, the same One exploring it's own creation from different perspectives.
>>25272669 (cont, last)You don't need traditions, traditions are just aesthetics, or ideas. If you want them, you can have them, everything goes, but the conclusions and ideas you get from the things like Non-duality, Subjective Idealism and Solipsism, their premise, is independent of traditions, and by themselves are more than enough to get to the point, because that's what all those things are at their core: Ideas. The greater thing beyond Solipsism and all those things is from where they all come from, is an indescribable paradox that only can be sensed, acknowledged and then experienced, which is Who you really are. But it can be hard to describe, yet being so simple, so we attempt to do so adopting premises that can approximate to it and understand it directly, thought experiments to observe it for ourselves, and exercises to alter our experience and give us momentum to make all this actually meaningful, but just as any framework or model, they are ultimately arbitrary, just ways to pattern our experience as our liking, because the moment we think about "it", is already too late, because our thoughts comes from "it", as well as our ideas to reach out to "it" and approach "it". There's only your presence having experience, everything else is up for the grabs, and the difference between someone internalizing reality from people who do not (materialist, physicalists, etc) is that they won't attempt to do stuff that you would from a subjective reality perspective because they think that they are divided from the world that surround them, and yet "the world" follows suit from the thought, as a solidified pattern that persisted over time, with habits and misdirected intention. You have to step outside yourself; Unless you are dedicated to accept solipsism as true and explore that perspective for yourself, to actually live it. When people ask "If Solipsism is true then why or why not..." they already fumbled because the only thing that matters is their own conclusion inside of themselves, as there's no reason why "we can't" besides one that we imagine to be.
>>25272586>the only answers I got was that: 'I didnt believe hard enough (in yourself?) that's why you can't fly!'. That's not true. You already were told that the reason why you can't fly actually is that you either don't know how, or that don't want to and pretending that you can't. How would you attemp to fly in a lucid dream? Well, that's how you do it in the waking life as well.
>>25272573>there is more than meWho are "you"? What are "you" really?
>>25273119I'm sorry but you are just redefining the definition and traditional understanding of a soul. I do not want to sound rude such as saying"you're impossible to talk to" as you're just using a different language and understanding, making it hard to understand.
>>25273169NTA but I have tried to grasp this, I read several Paolucci books multiple times but it's still not clicking. Can you explain you verified it for yoursef, in a step by step way?
>>25271613Does sophistic solipsism even exist?
>>25271632This just sounds like an Idealist inversion of Feuerbach
>>25273907Well, there's nothing i can say then. Sorry. >>25274003I study both T. George and Paolucci myself. Honestly, i just practiced and trough persistence application the "understanding" came on it's own, because it makes sense once you identify with imagination and consciousness (One-Thing). I honestly think that "understanding it" is an experience, and it just happen on its own once you accept it as true, regardless of anything. The time it takes to "take effect " however, is always up to you, but the most important part i think is to ACTUALLY KNOW, so you don't go astray while patterns are settling out.
>>25271562So far not a single pseud has adequately answered OP's question.
>>25274150read >>25272997try responding. pseud
>>25271562Ever read the book Flatland? Always loved its depiction of the solipsist. It's a victorian work of speculative fiction about a square who lives in an entirely flat world. The first half is an explanation of his world and how it works, and the second half is about square being visited by a sphere from space land who tries to teach him about the third dimension.There is an episode late in the book where sphere takes square from his 2 dimensional universe to a 0 dimensional universe, pointland, where the entire universe is just a single point inhabited by one solipsistic entity. They are unable to communicate with it because when it hears their voices it just assumes it has created them by its own ingenuity.
>>25272997>You is actually not you. But also youWow what an argument
>>25274145I'll just keep persisting then. What do you study about TG? I did that one exercise today where you shut down vision sound etc to exprience being empty space. I feel that helped me integrate UL more.
>>25274570Is how it is. If you don't like it, then keep coping.
>>25271562Epistleology or epistemology the limits of what I can know.
>>25271810Not an argument.
Remember that one time a significant portion of humanity wanted to become Satanists haha yeahhh
You can't fly because of gravity.
>>25274672planes and birds defy laws of nature? gravity is a fucking scam
