Post plot holes in famous fiction>stranded desert people somehow obtained enough gold to make a statue, without a forge or trained craftsmen
>>25271591Obviously they had gold with them, all their wealth and jewellery and coins and stuff. And they had tradesmen, all they need to do to make that cow is build a fire and melt the gold and pour it into some kind of mould, all easily done
>>25271594Why did slaves have a ton of gold?Why would escaped slaves include craftsmen?Where did they obtain the fuel for this fire, kiln and other craftsmen materials?
>>25271594lmao yeah dude go make a solid gold calf in your backyard
>>25271598>>25271600How big was the calf?
>>25271598A lot of the stuff in the Bible is "divinely gifted." This is the actual excuse used. Like God brainwashed the Egyptians to hand over their gold jewelry and God magically gave Bezalel his crafting skills. Also worth noting God killed Hur, Bezalel's father, which meant as a result Bezalel would craft holy objects for the rest of his life.
>>25271598>Why did slaves have a ton of gold?Well the historicity of Exodus is generally pretty flimsy and personally I‘d say the whole thing makes a lot more sense if you consider it as jews doing standard jewish tricks until having an isolated merchant class became more trouble for the Pharaoh than it was worth.
Why wouldn’t slaves have gold is also a question
God trying to kill moses for no reason, immediately after sending him to egypt to free the jews.whatever the fuck happened to josephactually basically all of the narrative parts of the pentateuch are fucked.
>>25271647>God trying to kill moses for no reasonAt that time when Exodus was told, it was a common trope in stories that heroes, after marrying the daughters of cannibals, would be murdered inside the house while they slept, unless said daughter tricked her father through a token of his presence (thence why Zipporah saves Moses by casting the foreskin of their son).
>>25271667Haven't heard of this, what are the stories where that happens? Genuinely interested
>>25271591they just had regular cows, but when they ate the mushrooms that sprouted out of the cowshit, they started hallucinating. hijinks ensued.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic&ra=m
>>25271598>Why did slaves have a ton of gold?After the plague of the death of the firstborn, God told the Jews to ask their neighbors for valuables and the Egyptians were so scared shitless they just handed them everything so they'd be left alone.>Why would escaped slaves include craftsmen?Why wouldn't they? It's not hard to imagine that some slaves were taught and performed various trades.>Where did they obtain the fuel for this fire, kiln and other craftsmen materials?Perhaps from an oasis or while coming across a trade caravan or something.Exodus is bunk, but these are poor attempts to criticize the internal logic of the story.
>>25271673It's very common in fairytales. If you live in a Celtic country, you may have heard of a variation of the Battle of the Birds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_the_Birds). In older texts, my first thought would be the Argonautica. There is an alternative version called Naupáktia (unfortunately lost) where Aeetes tries to do the same against Jason, but Aphrodite interrupts him through his wife.
>>25271591Increase your context window. God made the Egyptians give their gold to the departing Israelites. Exodus 3:20-22 “So I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My miracles which I shall do in the midst of it; and after that he will let you go. I will grant this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and it shall be that when you go, you will not go empty-handed. But every woman shall ask of her neighbor and the woman who lives in her house, articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; and you will put them on your sons and daughters. Thus you will plunder the Egyptians.””Also, you really don’t think a single Israelite or mixed multitude with them knew how to craft one of the most malleable metals?
>>25271591They were jews anonThey are known to hoard gold, historically speaking
>>25271594Yes it says that they used their jewelry. Exodus 32:2>>25271598Exodus 12:35-36>Where did they obtain the fuel for this fire, kiln and other craftsmen materials?Methane from cows probably.
>>25271695You're right. This guy never reads the passage relevant to what he's asking, and if you push him he just starts spewing sickheaded nonsense that proved he never cared about the point in question anyway. He's never going to stop doing it, but it's always good for a laugh to point out how narrowminded and froward he is.
>>25271647I dont know why this is so hard to understand. God told Abraham, ancestor of Moses, to circumcise himself and all males of his family in genesis 17. Why wouldnt Moses do the same as example of his obediance with God. God is good but He isnt safe.
>>25271598>Why did slaves have a ton of gold?they robbed the fuck out of the egyptians
>>25271600i could literally do this tomorrow
>>25271598>Why did slaves have a ton of gold?Yhwh softened the hearts of the Egyptians, letting the Jews take the Egyptian valuables.
>>25271598Slavery in many ancient societies was very different from modern chattel slavery. If you were a slave you were technically the property of your master but you had a fair amount of personal and social autonomy among your class.
>>25271598They took is from the Egyptians as per the Bible because God terrified them into giving all their jewelry to the Jews
>>25271591try actually reading the book before calling out plot holes imbecileIf you actually read it and had some capacity for independent thought you would have said>Moses' brother Aaron has the idea to build the golden calf statue>god gets so mad he wants to kill all the Hebrews over making the golden calf that he wants to kill all of them and start over with Moses and his family (even though his brother was the one who did it)>Moses begs God not to do this, he goes down and along with Aaron (who was the one who made the statue) kills 50,000 Hebrews>God then orders them to build golden cherubim statues>Aaron becomes the high priestOr if you didn't get that far into the book you could always talk about how the whole plagues business undermines the story since Pharaoh is literally puppeted by God to not free the Jews.Or just point out the weird crabbed story of the bridegroom of blood.
>>25271598Slavery in the ancient world was not like slavery in the Americas. Also it says it right there in Exodus that the Egyptians gave them gold and told them to get lost
>>25271598Sometimes, I forget that there are people so retarded that when they think of slavery the only kind of slavery they can picture is transatlantic Negroes picking cotton for no wage and performing only the basest forms of labor
>>25271620Gold was given to make up for the lost wages they were entitled to after being forced into slavery. They after all were sojourners in Egypt and instead of treating them with respect and letting them leave to go back home, their hosts enslaved them. Deuteronomy 10:18-19 “He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the alien by giving him food and clothing. So show your love for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.”This was all prophesied earlier to Abram. Genesis 15:13-14 “God said to Abram, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years. But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions.”
>>25272163>Cherubim statuesYou do know that was a seat for God to dwell upon. The only religion in the area to not make a material idol out of their god.
>>25272163Why wasn’t Aaron punished for building the golden calf? Read thishttps://www.gotquestions.org/Aaron-golden-calf.html
>>25272273>You do know that was a seat for God to dwell uponas was the golden calf
>>25272311No it wasn’t. Nehemiah 9 makes it explicit. >“Therefore you did not desert them, even when they cast for themselves an image of a calf and said, 'This is your god, who brought you up out of Egypt', or when they committed awful blasphemies.”They viewed the calf as a god itself.
>>25272358Nehemiah 9 although probably earlier than the book as a whole is still a lot later than the event it refers to
>>25271600My cousin did this with aluminum when we were 14 it's really not that hard to cast metalFuckin urbanite retard
>>25271591God did it (he works in mysterious ways)
>>25272061The modern version is employee
>>25272721Not what he meant. The thing is when people today think of slavery they could be thinking of something which isn’t really what slavery was like in the ancient times. If you can leave your employment legally at any time it’s not slavery
>>25272761A curious form of slave ownership, like a communal pool of slaves
>>25271591They're Jews, it was 100% gold leaf.
>>25271598Because they weren't slaves, they were the Hyskos rulers of the 17th dynasty after they got BTFO during the reunification.
It's really quite sad to consider the amount of human thought and effort that has gone into rationalising these retarded jewish fairy tales.
>divine prophet sacrifices himself>intention is to show humility among the one true god and save us from sin>sin continues to exist and has in fact gotten worse>church is the exact opposite of humble and is extremely rich/powerful/annoying
Half the Bible is >God makes vague demand>it goes against human impulse or nature>human puts in the effort anyway>human fucks up>God is insane with fury and threatens to kill human or all of humanity>humans are terrified and prostrate>God decides this is good enough>humans didnt learn anything except to fear God
>>25273184The other half is>Jacob and Daniel of Hapsberg and Calisthenics walked among the urstone until they encountered a local tree uses by the Hepitites that grew many grapes, and they ate the grapes but which were host of wickedness; God ordered Jacob to bury Calisthenics up to his shoulders and stone him; for when they returned their father Ballistics beckoned Calisthenics, and so God struck him blind and he did wander off the precipice of a cliff, from his body grew a tree of holy grapes which Jacob and Daniel and Hapsberg and Silverstein and Greenberg feasted upon, grateful God had forgiven them until Daniel was struck by a thunderbolt, and all men glorified God for that which was done again
>>25271591>fictionbait used to be believable
TWO OF EVERY KING OF ANIMALON A SINGLE BOATFOR 40 DAYSAND 4O NIGHTSMAINTAINED ENTIRELY BY YOU AND YOUR SONS?
>>25271629The Exodus is legend, but the Jews were among the groups called Habiru by the Egyptians in the Bronze Age (they also kept their name). They were nomadic bandits who stole shit and plagued merchants and caused everyone headaches. A few Bible stories like Abraham and the Exodus might be based on the time when the Jews were among the Habiru.
>>25271608suspicious lack of response to this obvious end to the argument. In fact Aaron's famous excuse ("it came out like that) well tokens the malformed diminutive stature of the calf.
i really hate you. Ki Tisa is such a beautiful culmination to the semiotic crisis depicted in Exodus and a perfect statement of the supreme monotheism.
>>25271857This is the most accepted explanation, yet it fails to explain how God could have been tricked by Zipporah. When she throws the foreskin at the "feet" (genitals) of her "bridegroom of blood" (Moses), God changes his mind, as if Moses were uncircumsized himself, but the contact with the blood of his son made God think it was also his foreskin.
>>25273324>made God think it was also his foreskinyou'll have to demonstrate that God was "tricked" as opposed to merely satisfied by the sincerity of the offering. there is in addition mystical consequence for the rest of Exodus that Moses is uncut.
>>25273329God in this passage is not an omnipresent being, as he meets Moses at the inn with the intent to kill. He can be tricked, just like giants in fairytales are tricked in the same occasions.
>>25273344Have you considered that not everything is literal, or may in fact be referential?
>>25273353The scene being literal or not matters little. In the biblical context it may be indeed about Moses failing to abide to the circumcision of his son or even himself, but for the author(s) of Exodus? He certainly based the episode on folkloric motifs, which depict the would-be-murderer as being tricked.
>>25273256All Bible frivolity is excused as "a wizard did it." If you don't believe a magic wizard can do anything and is responsible for every logical hole, you don't have faith. This is what Abrahamic Semites want you to believe.
>>25273344i know it's hard for a Christian to imagine that anthropomorphic language is anything other than literal historical account of bodily incarnation
>>25273378>matters littleReddit retard locution.>interpreting Exodus on the basis of goat-fucking pedo pagan mythologyYou completely fail to acknowledge the historic novelty of Judaic monotheism. Adaptation of contemporary "folklore" as you have it is always lodged as criticism of idolatry in this book. And by the way, Exodus explicitly demonstrates this dynamic by having the Pharaoh's magicians duplicate Moses' God-given signs and the plague, the Egypt's detriment. Signs can always be copied by the enemy, but the one true monotheism always shines through.
>>25273496>>25273504The criticism here is not of idolatry. I was basically telling you that this episode (Exodus; 4:24-26) is akin to what you see in folklore, where the would-be-murderer is tricked. Obviously, the biblical context is something of its own, but the scene itself is not biblical, and recognizing this helps with its interpretation.
Somehow Adam and Eve populated the entire world.
>>25273547>the criticism hereI don’t really care what (You) think, is the point. If (and it remains to be demonstrated, so far only baldly asserted) Exodus adapts prior pagan mythologies it is to point up and then correct their idolatrous nature. That’s what (You) don’t understand.
>the bible is literal historical fact just insofar as it prefigures Jesus, after which point it is Jewish demonology that they are fools to believe could have ever happenedThis is your brain on Christism.
>>25271591They brought gold with them out of Egypt. The text explicitly states this.You can make a crucible out of clay.They where slaves from Egypt, the epicenter of the time for metallurgy.Slaves are craftsman.You are retarded.
>>25271598>Why would escaped slaves include craftsmen?Even in the Antebellum South, there were lots of black slave craftsmen.
>>25274694>They where slavesJewish lie
>>25273588You didn't read Genesis very closely.
>>25274899Why would this matter unless you are a believer yourself? We are discussing Exodus as fiction. Theists will complain when you point out the stories in the Old Testament are folklore and not original to the Bible, but atheists for some reason feel threatened by these pieces of ancient literature.
>>25274920Actually we are discussing it as a story, fiction or non it makes no difference to the story
>>25274926Mythology is not fiction, so you are correct. Fiction is when the narrative is made up, but basically all sacred narratives can be traced back to much older traditions.
>>25273504As opposed to believing in semitic goat fucking mythology?
>>25275098Yes, opposed to that. Thanks for playing.
>>25271591They clearly stole the gold from the Egyptians before they left, why else do you think they Egyps came after them?
>>25271591There are gold mines in deserts, and trade exists as well. There are plenty of ways to justify such things.
