>>25274962
I will also add this.

A Stoic is like a bullied Christian.

Look at the physical results and behavior that Stoicism is causing people to do.
A good modern example of a Stoic is a Christian who has been bullied into passivism by his enemies.

When people say you aren't allowed to FIGHT, because Jesus Christ said to turn the other cheek, or you have to love your enemies (like people who are exploiting you, and are directly hostile to you), and you aren't even allowed to hate them because Jesus Christ said to love your enemies.

But Jesus Christ also said if you don't have a sword, to sell your cloak and buy one. So obviously never fighting, and loving people who hate and hurt you, is a pretty direct misinterpretation of what Jesus Christ was trying to imply.
Enemies to Christians will use those scriptures to try to bully Christians into doing NOTHING, and that Christians who are effectively bullied that way do NOTHING in their lives, and never resist anything. Just like a Stoic never does anything. Because he can't justify action for whatever reason.

So yeah, thats why I don't like this sort of shit, and Stoicism is for losers.
I would not recommend reading Meditations to any Man who is actually wanting to better himself.

>>25274962
What is it exactly about stoicism that makes people seethe so much? Suggest they develop internal fortitude, control what they can and not fret over what they can't, live by internal principles, and this causes chimp outs for some reason. Why? Because it doesn't tell you all your problems are external, because it doesn't scapegoat someone or some group to be the problems for your life? The op pic is the kind of infantile criticism you can expect against stoicism, imagining that your pseudo-father figure isn't getting cheated on and feeling cucked for some reason, all because of some shit you imagined.

>>25275025
that your pseudo-father figure is getting cheated on*

I tried reading Epictetus once and had to tap out when he said "if your father or brother is a piece of shit retard you should just deal with it because they're family" and "if you're a poor retard you should just accept it because that's your lot in life". It's literally the ultimate cuck philosophy.

>>25274962
You have a room temp IQ understanding of stoicism. It's not about just doing nothing, that is more cynicism with its radical rejection of society. It's about accepting reality for what it is, what you can control and what you cannot. That doesn't mean get trampled on or never try to improve your station in life. But if you're a literal slave, fantasizing about being a king isn't doing shit for you but increasing your anguish of your current life. If someone cusses you out, shivving him isn't gonna do shit for you, better to realize he's an emotional retard who isn't truly harming you. Brush him off as the retard he is and move on instead of seething about it or chimping out. Accept reality and control what is in your means to control.

>>25274962
It never happened, it's a ridiculous story from the Historia Augusta, a bullshit book written centuries late full of invented sensationalistic stuff

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>>25275025
>>25275026
OP already explained everything for you anon, lol
This alone destroys Stoicism >>25274972 and nobody can refute it. Also you can develop (internal fortitude, control what they can and not fret over what they can't, live by internal principles) and much much more, all without Stoicism.
>>25275028
>It's literally the ultimate cuck philosophy.
This.
>>25275041
>Look at the physical results and behavior that Stoicism is causing people to do.
OP already explained that aswell. I swear that /lit/ gets more and more LowIQ every year...The rest of your post is just coping. Yes you should accept what is in your control, but not accept a reality that isn't yours. You build your own reality, and are in control of it. Stoicism is defeatist garbage for boomers who think they're enlightened.

>>25275073
Building a reality that isn't actually real is what is coping. As I already said, stoicism doesn't tell you not to change your circumstances in life or to just lay down and be a bitch. If that's your interpretation, then it is clearly beyond your reasoning abilities to comprehend (FYI it's among the easiest philosophies to comprehend). You can accept reality for what it is and improve your station at the same time. If you're a fat fuck who wants to be a Navy SEAL like David Goggins was, it isn't saying "well you're already a fatass and being a SEAL is hard enough for fit men so don't even bother trying". It's in your means to get off your ass and put down the fork and try to make it happen. But if you're freaking 50 years old or crippled or they straight up tell you they don't want you, period, then the ship has sailed, it's not gonna happen. Accept the reality of the situation and move on instead of stomping your feet and screaming it's not fair.

>>25275091
You need to read Epictetus instead of getting all your information about Stoicism from reddit.
>stoicism doesn't tell you not to change your circumstances in life or to just lay down and be a bitch
That's literally 100% what Stoicism teaches.

>>25275128
I've read Epictetus, Aurelius, and Seneca, but you clearly have not:
https://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

>>25274962
Why does every philosophy amateur shit up the board with the same ten thinkers every day? Log off, read for ten years and then come back and talk about someone more interesting.

>>25274962
>how do you get over the fact Marcus Aurelius´ wife cheated on him with a gladiator?
Cheat on her with a cute and pretty twink, it is a no-brainer.

>>25275144
>Remember that you are an actor in a drama, of such a kind as the author pleases to make it. If short, of a short one; if long, of a long one. If it is his pleasure you should act a poor man, a cripple, a governor, or a private person, see that you act it naturally. For this is your business, to act well the character assigned you; to choose it is another's
What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to engage in to think this is a life affirming, volition encouraging message?

>>25275183
It's not a woman's "life affirming" self help text about how you can be whatever you dream just because it makes you feel good. This is about accepting reality. You can live in delusion that you're the new Napoleon like Raskolnikov, but if you're not, then what is that going to do for you? Accept reality for what it is and direct it according to what is truly possible.

>Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

>The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.

>Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.

>Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you.

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>>25274962
>>25274972
Based OP
Stoicism is by far one of the most overrated garbage philosophies ever written...I mean the way people suck this philosophy off and pretend its like this masterpiece, its this great philosophy. Its just ridiculous. I mean where are the standards at?
If you want a good Stoicism, if you want a better Stoicism, just read Max Stirner's The Ego And His Own.
Max Stirner's Egoism is a better Stoicism, because its not Stoicism, and can actually improve your quality of life...Stoicism is catered towards normies, and thats all it is. Stoicism is unrealistic, and its like how am I supposed to take this philosophy seriously?

There are no likeable philosophers in Stoicism, there's no depth to Stoicism, there's no complexity to Stoicism, there's no character development at all for these so-called Stoicists who live their lives on reddit, because otherwise they wouldn't be living their lives on reddit.
Stoicism completely falls off even worse, after you find out about all the cuckshit. Like HOW is this philosophy so highly regarded, when the philosophers are bad, the philosophy goes nowhere, the books are terrible, the writing sucks, the style is bad.
Stoicism is just more overrated garbage by people who don't know what their talking about.
Its generic garbage hypedup by casuals who don't know what quality is.

...Anyways, Stoicists are just a bunch of actual morons and Stoicism will NEVER be good, so lets get to why Egoism is the much better philosophy.
Max Stirner's Egoism gets you to actually reclaim agency and ownership over your life, while stop subordinating yourself to invented ideals, which gives you a strong self while rejecting passive fatalism, so you can actually actively shape your life while refusing needless guilt and social conditioning.
>Stirner’s perspective is closer to: “Why assume the world is fixed? Expand your power."
...Stirner treats life as REAL, and not some lifeless bullshit like stoicism does. Stirner teaches you that your wants matter, your individuality matters, and your life is not merely a spook.

>tl;dr
Max Stirner teaches you that YOUR LIFE belongs to YOU, and that you need to become conscious of what actually owns you, while stopping the worship of spooks.
Egoism isn't self-improvement grifting: Its Reality.

>>25274962
OP is a samefagging kike lying about Stoicism. You guys are that threatened by it, huh?

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>>25275206
Hell, I won't tell you my whole life story, but I'll just tell you this as someone who drank the Stoicism garbage years ago.
Because if I can even stop ONE person from falling for Stoicism, then I will be happy.

>be young guy trying to improve myself
>discover Stoicism because every self-improvement grifter worships Marcus Aurelius now
>"focus only on what you can control bro"
>"accept reality bro"
>"detach from outcomes bro"
>"endure suffering silently bro"

>end up emotionally anesthetizing myself instead of actually living
>become calm spectator of my own life
>convince myself wanting things is "attachment"
>convince myself anger is weakness instead of sometimes useful
>tell myself every failure is actually an opportunity for inner peace
>never ask (((who))) benefits from me becoming infinitely adaptable to shitty conditions

>realize most online Stoicism is just sophisticated coping for people with no agency
>it's philosophy for surviving reality by being a weak cuckold who accepts your shitty life, instead of shaping your shitty life into something good, and pure, and meaningful

>discover Max Stirner through memes
>"why are you subordinating yourself to abstractions?", "virtue", "duty", "society", "the grind", "self-improvement", "purpose"

>all just spooks people sacrifice themselves to
>because I realized that half the self-improvement sphere is guys becoming slaves to optimization aesthetics, like cold showers, no fap, "monk mode", dopamine detox, "sigma routines", and endless productivity systems
>they completely forget to ask if they even WANT the life they're optimizing for

>Stoicism says: "adapt yourself to reality"
>Stirner says: "expand yourself and stop worshipping made-up ideals"

>one creates durable functionaries
the other creates individuals
>still need discipline and emotional control obviously, otherwise egoism just becomes self-destruction
>but at least Stirner starts with YOU instead of demanding you dissolve yourself into "virtue" or "nature"

>tfw the "selfish nihilist" philosophy ends up feeling more psychologically honest than mainstream self-improvement culture

>>25275242
>be moron
>cant refute anything
>OP must be samefagging and lying
KeK

>>25274972
TRVKE. Stoicism is only useful if applied with some other productive moral code

>it justifies doing nothing and just tolerating whatever is happening at all times.
Either you didn't read the book or you didn't understand it.

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>>25274962
>From my grandfather I have learned to be gentle and meek, and to refrain from all anger and passion

Literally the first line in the book. Exposes this life-negating cope "philosophy". Wouldn't be surprised if this was written and distributed to keep the masses pacified.

>>25275041
>fantasizing about being a king isn't doing shit for you
I wouldn't be rich and possess the knowledge I do that allows me to control my environment without fantasizing about it when I was young, poor and powerless.

>>25275531
>But if you're a literal slave
Rich but completely illiterate I see.

>>25275073
>>25275073
>LowIQ every year
I agree, because you clearly haven't read stoicism and even I'm not a fan of it, but its not 'do nothing, roll over and die' philosophy.
What am I doing, no one is honest or reads anymore. Just more useless shitflinging.
Its over.
t.platonist.

>>25275536
There are multiple documented examples of literal slaves becoming literal kings so even if your advice is so pointless it's not meant for anyone but literal slaves it's still worse than useless to them.
If you're the kind of person who chimps out then chimping out is a healthy expression of your true self and sometimes it will lead to something interesting. Justifying being an emotionless submissive robot using an implied appeal to hedonism is pathetic and incoherent. It only works for you because you're a scared man who finds comfort in identifying as a robot on valium with no ambition.

>>25275575
Because they were in circumstances that allowed for it, which isn't outside the realm of Stoic thought as I've said many times now, as Stoics are not against changing your life for the better, taking advantage of opportunities, or pursuing goals and ambitions.

But if you think it's doable for any ordinary man regardless of circumstance surrounding them, let alone any slave, then just go and do it. Try and become crowned as the Tsar of Russia and see how far you get to this goal.

Also, Stoicism doesn't call for emotional repression either but it's obvious that you're being deliberately obtuse with straw men for lack of any real argument against Stoic thought. Here's a tip, before trying to vehemently oppose a philosophy based on assumption, try learning the basics of what it's about first to argue against it based on facts instead.

>>25275073
>Cuck!
>Cope!
This is essentially what the criticisms amount to, the op's pic is literally a guy is so mindbroken by memes that he takes a rumor and starts imagining that his hero is getting cucked by chad.
>all without Stoicism.
Yeah the point isn't to get attached to an ideology. What exactly do you want, a religion that sanctifies being BASED and LIFE AFFIRMING pilled? It's just common sense wisdom. Yet people project this advice with their own insecurities. Do you want something explicitly telling you to be the life affirming ubermensch chad so you feel like you aren't a cuck? That's your problem, someone who doesn't feel like a cuck doesn't take the advice to control what they can and don't fret over what they can't to mean being a cuck. It's you who takes it that way because you feel like a cuck and need someone to tell you to be the life affirming ubermensch. And what exactly is that called? That's cope, cope is when you don't face your problems but instead escape into distraction or fantasy. This is why people chimp out at grounded advice, because it doesn't soothe them with fantastical delusions about being gigachad.

>>25276034
If the conclusion of your "philosophy" doesn't lead to archieve CHIM and turn you into a living God, then that's not philosophy, is just coping.

>>25276543
So anything that isn't Scientology is coping?

just do virtue ethics omg

>>25274962
>it justifies doing nothing and just tolerating whatever is happening at all times. I don’t like it.
Yet, at the end of it all, you're the one suffering in vain, unable to change anything, while the stoic chad is at peace with himself and the world.

>>25276953
Don't bother, OP doesn't read.

>>25276567
>Materialism is the only option
Ngmi

>>25274962
>cope
>brutalized
>gigachad
>cuck philosophy
>adam22
I think the first step to "coping with life" or bettering one's mindset is getting off the internet for a while.
It's annoying to me that philosophy discussion has been overrun with "pop stoicism" that pays more attention to memes than texts.
>>25275183
>perform the duties of your current state and station in life; you were given that station by a will greater than your own, and if you are able to change to a different station it comes from the same
What do you want to hear, then? That you're the supreme god who has the power to do anything? That "your truth" is truer than reality? That you CAN do literally anything like the propaganda says, circumstances and natural ability be damned? That your only duty is to live as pleasurable a life as you can? I think deluding yourself like this is a much bigger cuck than anything you could do with stoicism.

>>25274972
Soon after in Luke:
>49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

>51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

>>25275694
>Stoicism doesn't call for emotional repression
>>25275458

>>25275206
I made the mistake of reading Marx's German Ideology before reading Ego. Which kind of ruined the latter's reading because I could easily see the flaws and limitations in Stirner's argument. Never read a refutation before the actual work bros

The world makes a lot more sense and is easier to laugh and when you realize all women are whores

>>25277350
He actually means it's based to kill niggers o algo, stop bullying Christianity.

>>25275458
>life affirmation is when you throw temper tantrums

>>25277350
Jesus had a role to play later on, though, and killing the soldiers would have affected that role

>>25277430
...that's it?

That's the best you perverters of the Word can come up with?

Really?

>>25274962
>I don’t like it.
And? This needed an entire thread? Stoicism is a practical application to addressing reality. That's it.

Why do we have to have this thread every single week?

>>25275091
>Building a reality that isn't actually real is what is coping
But enough about Christianity

>>25277730
>Haha see how I mentioned thing I disagree with??
>Give me attention I am so intelligent
Touch ass incel.

>>25275458
Have you ever been angry? It's very easy to let it blind you to the truth and make a mistake you have to answer for later. Maybe a catastrophic one.
But none of you understand passion and virtue, or you wouldn't keep saying these confused things. Being the rider and not the horse doesn't make the horse disappear.

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>>25277738
Stoicism is a good ideology because most of you are genetic shit who won't succeed if you try. Most people are this. Natural observable phenomena such as evolution could not exist without a healthy population of natural failures. Stoicism provides this plentiful loser a warm comfort amid the natural reality rather than allowing (or Science forbid, humoring) some grotesque recognized anguish that haunts them for their entire sad ordinary existence. Marcus Aurelius himself would agree with this assessment of Stoicism. He would admire the functional nature of it because that's what he set out to explain. Christianity is much the same as Stoicism in this regard, as it is an elaborate coping mechanism designed to help the mundane and ordinary mind evade the material nature of reality once you inevitably decide all the lingering questions of the divine are not cosmic riddles touching upon the truth but mere animal limitation. Things you can't know not because they stem from a God who loves you but because you are a slug existing in the same realm as rocket science. The world needs Stoicism actually. The world needs Christianity. The world needs delusions. The world needs delusions to tranquilize the natural temperament of humanity, because if the individual realizes just how little he has to gain and how little he has to lose simultaneously then society, with all its progress and comforts, could not exist. And electricity, air conditioning and the Xbox proposes more value to me than you conceding to your existence as genetic shit, then possibly doing something drastic about it.

>>25277750
Booooring

>>25277377
It's not repression, that's a modern psychoanalytic concept. Stoicism teaches logical understandings which provide the necessary perspective to discern and prioritize what's worth your time/energy or not.

>>25277774
The author’s central thesis:

Human existence is fundamentally mundane, material, and limited.
Stoicism and Christianity are functional coping mechanisms that allow people to navigate this reality without being crushed by existential despair.
These systems are valuable socially and psychologically, not because they convey ultimate truth or morality, but because they make the human condition bearable.
Material pleasures and societal structures are ultimately more tangible than philosophical consolation.

In short: the author is doing a philosophical sociology of religion and philosophy—viewing them through the lens of survival psychology rather than traditional morality or metaphysics.

>>25277783
Thank you chatGPS. Very cool.

>>25275248
Am I the only man of my age who dodged the Stoicism grift? I was already reading Kant when that shit nigh inescapable.

>>25277750
I'm getting blackpiller fatigue

>>25274962
The last 8 years have proven stoicism right if anything, zoomers who call everything a "cope" are the biggest losers of all and have no viable alternative
More specifically, coping mechanisms are not the mark of a loser but the mark of a winner. Even just making up bullshit through force of personality is better than trying to identify why something is a "cope" which is actually the behavior of neurotics doomed to failure

>>25277971
Stoicism kicked off because it's simple and easy to understand and focused on practice over theory unlike many other forms of philosophy, Kant being a great example of the opposite of this. Compare reading Meditations and Enchiridion to reading Critique of Pure Reason and Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals. The former two are significantly more accessible for the average man who is not disposed to philosophy.