With the rise of certain religious attitudes in the US, particularly attitudes dragging the country into a holy war which huge sects of religious people believe will bring the end times and the return of Jesus, are we ripe for a New Atheist revival? It seems the circumstances that facilitated their rise in the 2000s are recurring again. And will this be a revival of the actual 4 horsemen, or will a new set of religious critics emerge for a new generation of people fed up with the negative influence religion has on the direction of society?
>>25276584the only holy war people want to fight is to annihilate the epstein class
>>25276624Tell that to Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham and the new leadership of TPUSA.
>>25276584The state of the world with people lacking agency and community, it's more likely that a quasi-religious or spiritual movement will take hold of people rather than atheism which has a bad reputation due to Reddit et al
>>25276584This idiot tried to argue that Balkan wars were a religious battle between muslims and Christians. And India go partitioned because the Hindu elites weren't willing to compromise with muslims.
It's honestly amazing how short-lived the trad movement was. People remembered how annoying conservative evangelicals and Catholics were, and now we're going to see the backlash.
>>25277466Religion shouldnt be tied to any political party. I usually vote red, but the orange man is so retarded that I just cant keep voting red this time
>>25276584John Gray pushes back on people like Hitchens, even though Gray is also an atheist himself, but attacks Harris, Hitchens for essentially pushing the same Christian doctrines of redemption despite considering themselves opposed to it. whether you're atheist or religious, people should read picrel instead of the trash in the OP to get what atheists are actually pushing. I'm reading it right and a lot of it kind of makes sense.
>>25277504>surely the democrats will fix the problem this time!>democrats fuck up>surely the republicans will fix the problem this time!>republicans fuck uprinse, repeat. you are so naive.
>>25277393I dunno if Hitchens is aware, but a lot of it was also racial too, but that's a sore subject for people like him.
>>25277516I just want a stop to whatever the fuck king miga is doing. I would be really surprised if the dems started to play along with that nonsense too. Its not lost on me how broken the american voting system is.
>>25277518Well I'm sure he thinks racism is bad tooWhat needs to be pointed out is how much damage the secular and liberal regimes have done over the last century. The 20th century was the great epoch of his type of government and it was a bloodbath
>I have rendered the name of your supreme being with a lowercase letter. The argument is mine.This is the peak of intellectual horsepower achieved by the Anglo
>>25277691Better than blotting it out like the jews do
>>25277793That triggers me honestly. I get the urge to punch one when it happens.
>>25277552The whole "no kings" thing is retarded how do Americans like myself even know anything about being ruled by a king. Sure, there was King George but no one alive lived under him. Its retarded. I mean, have we even tried it yet, as a treat?
>>25276584I put the fear of God in Christopher Hitchens, put feminist bitches in kitchens and make vegans live off of chicken and chitlins.
>>25277925This nigga throwin' down bars
Yeah more like New Autism
>>25277962How does it differ from Old Autism?
>>25277964It doesn't, not really.
>>25277965How would you even know?
>>25277388I don't know man, it's not like atheism had a great reputation in the 2000s either, it's just that religious zealots in government were so obnoxiously and diabolically aggressive with their holy wars that more and more of the population connected the dots and rejected the whole method of thinking that produced such bad fruit.
>>25277511This seems a bit disingenuous, especially because people like Hitchens deliberately emphasized that his worldview includes the full comprehension of how narrow the scope of human understanding is, that there is always a huge amount to learn, that he explicitly lived his life as if he were on the edge of a great new harvest of knowledge and that one should never think they had the final answer for sure. Adhering to this worldview is distinct from religious dogma on a fundamental level. It's weird, some people hear a strident tone of voice and just assume it's from a place of dogma. You can passionately argue in favor of skepticism while maintaining a skepticism of your own position.
>>25277553No it wasn't. The Catholic Church endorsed literally every fascist government in Europe through the 20th century from German to Italy to Spain etc. Also, Stalin made a cult of personality around himself, having icons of himself made with a halo around his head and he played off the old belief that the Tsar was akin to a demi-god, that he was superhuman, this can hardly be called "secular".
>>25278267In all fairness, state atheism mostly has a poor track record too. Now I'm aware a lot of modern atheists tend to be in the libertarian camp but actual existing nations which had a moratorium on atheism often were poor, nasty and miserable. The truth of the matter is that no government is liable to fix the human condition and we need to stop pretending that's what politics and religion is supposed to do. We always need governments as long as we have civilization and people are always going to have faith in something, but until we die as a species, its we that we have to deal with on our own terms.
Anyone read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism as a lens to analyze modern American Christianity? I was kind of floored at how well Weber predicted things like health and wealth preachers and how Evangelicals are more focused on the Old Testament and essentially become Jews with extra steps.
>>25278281That's why a godless constitution and a secular state is so important. Allow people to adhere to whatever politics and religion they choose, but keep government and the guiding document of the nation totally neutral except in regard to preserving this universal freedom. Notice too that a secular state is entirely different from an atheist state, the secular state being manifestly preferable.
>>25278277All well and good, but the only person Hitchens could truly change was himself but lived a destitute life of drugs and prostitutes. I think he just had a general problem with people who didn't see the world the way he did, and it bothered him. That comes heavily into play when you consider Ex-Trotskyists (who, by my own admission I tend to distrust) adopting neoconservative views because its the only way to deal with religious zealots in the middle east. Same with his general view of harmless evangelicals who may or may not have agreed with him on his views regarding foreign policy but nonetheless wanted nothing more than to worship in peace. But no, Hitchens wanted everyone to be as morally destitute as he was, he even fell out of favor with his own brother and the two never saw eye to eye. Someone once told me I was good at burning bridges and I see a little bit of him in me. I think there's a little Christopher Hitchens in everybody, a fanatic zealot for nihilism who just wants to watch the world burn.
>>25276584No, because the kind of atheism present in the 2000s would also touch precious PoCs (who are more religious than whites) which would instantly make it racist and unacceptable to the modern left.The moment atheism became aligned with left identity politics, it was fucked. The landscape of religion is very different today. There are plenty of people who are ideologically right wing and don’t believe in God, but pretend to anyways because atheism is so Reddit and left-coded. You would never see a modern hitchens, for instance.
>>25278283Yeah I read it last month. I don't think he's wrong however I think the book not so subtly acts as covert Roman propaganda if read a certain way.
>>25276584>particularly attitudes dragging the country into a holy war which huge sects of religious people believe will bring the end times and the return of Jesuspretty funny you say this considering how all 4 of the horsemen of new atheism are/were zionist jews or philosemites who want goyim being used as cannon fodder
>>25278291A destitute life? In what sense? He over indulged, but he took care of his own family. The divide with his brother is surely a two way street. Have you ever heard Peter Hitchens speak? He can't handle a 30 year old challenging him without raging around the room throwing pillows about, I can only image what it would be like having him as a brother.Christopher Hitchens was, first and foremost, a journalist, repeatedly going into war zones in order to see for himself and report such. Now, he may have come to some bad positions on foreign policy, but you seem to have a personal reason for exaggerating his flaws. When he lay dying, his wife and kids were by his side, wishing he could live. Hardly compatible with the portrayal you're trying to put around about him.
>>25277388I suspect that has already happened. Many Western people have an assortment of spiritual beliefs, incorporating karma, reincarnation, and supernatural entities like ghosts, among others, onto a Christian inspired foundation. The legacy of new atheism seems to be its success in inspiring contempt for organized religion but failing at its principle aim.
>>25276584Straight up Atheism still has a pretty negative perception among the youth who associate it with a very Reddit kind of person. You could go to any college campus rn and probably find a lot of people who will say they’re agnostic or agnostic but culturally-x, or “spiritual” but very little people will admit they’re full on “there is no god/spirit/whatever and I’m certain” atheist. That shit is just too cringe among us very image conscious zoomers who grew up with the atheist neckbeard stereotype.It will probably take at least 2 generations for the stigma to fade and full on four horseman atheism to come back. Maybe younger Gen Alpha.
>>25278299Hitchens was not a Zionist. He explicitly denounced the way Israel was founded and viewed it as a catastrophic moral failure and would outline how evil the settlers are in the West Bank. In fact, if memory serves, he viewed the whole project of Israel as misguided and always resented his mother's fascination with it.Yep, here is Hitchens literally and verbatim saying "I think Zionism, the idea of building a state of Jewish farms on Arab land is a stupid idea to begin with. My mother wanted to go and be a Zionist and I tried to talk her out of it."https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Kszl_bpeAPlease educate yourself before stating manifestly false things.
>>25278293This.My favorite tranny YouTube video essayist made a video on New Atheism and said the exact same thing but framed it negatively. Also that it was misogynistic and made rape jokes.>The moment atheism became aligned with left identity politicsMany leftists view it as kind of proto alt right because it was so online and interwoven with trolling.
>>25278293Ironic since the actual 4 horsemen were strongly critical of feminism in the West and especially this suicidal alliance feminists have with Muslims just because Muslims tend to be brown people.
>>25278315Atheism+ was a movement which tried to package progressive idea in with atheism and it failed pretty spectacularly to the point no one really is even aware their movement existed while the 4 horsemen have had cultural staying power.
>>25278318Progressives don't see it that way or lay claim to it. New Atheism is just a radioactive movement that nobody wants to be affiliated with.
>>25278311okay Hitchens wasn't but Harris and Dawkins are rabid zionists
>>25278326Dawkins has been pretty critical of Israel and its founding. The only one that was vocally pro Israel is probably Harris, so we've gone from "all 4 are Zionists" to "okay I guess 1 was Zionist".
>>25278299> all 4 of the horsemen of new atheism are/were zionist jews or philosemites who want goyim being used as cannon fodderSo you already got explained that Hitch wasn't. Dawkins wasn't (while we might see this as fence sitting, these opinions are antisemitism in ZOG controlled USA). Dennett barely spoke on this issue other than some milquetoast opinion about religion being a source of conflict, and that antisemitism might have its origins there. This leaves Sam Harris, who supports Israel because he is a jew more than he is an atheist. And it leaves you an idiot talking about shit you know nothing about.
>>25278321>New Atheism is just a radioactive movement that nobody wants to be affiliated with.That's debatable. What's not debatable is the legacy of the New Atheists, which is to win over more and more of the public to be skeptical of religion.
>>25277552>I would be really surprised if the dems started to play along with that nonsense too.When the fuck have the Dems rolled back executive power grabs? It's always a fascist takeover until it's their turn to take a dump on the electorate and then these newfangled power overreaches are really useful for getting things done. > not lost on me how broken the american voting system isI'm not sure if you're crying about shit like the electoral system here, but the founders warned against factionalism and how it would break the system. Soon after you got political parties, and it broke the system. The US government was intended to be individual representatives forming dynamic coalitions according to what best served their constituents wishes. Voting blocs and first left boot, then right boot, kills voter influence and issue politics.
>>25278338Yeah, being raised agnostic and from a very agnostic reason, I don't think people will become atheists per say, but they'll just become religiously indifferent. Not quite fully committed to agnosticism, but on the fence about something, like I am.
>>25276584The whole New Atheist thing only worked because it arose in an era of religious dominance. The thing you've got to realize now is the shoe is on the other foot. The religious in the US are much more insecure this time around. The irreligious or uninterested are actually the biggest demographic in the US, accounting for anywhere between 25-33 percent of citizens; larger than any single religion, and it's only growing. (Tales of a zoomer "religious revival" are basically one hundred percent bullshit.)That's why you have so much religiously motivated clownery this time around. It's like a man on his deathbed insisting he's perfectly fine, in fact he's never been better. This time, we're really going to do Christian Nationalism! This time, we're really going to get rid of the separation between church and state! This time...as the US is further away from it than ever, and all they manage to do is provoke resentment and scorn.The faith just isn't there, anymore. I know, because I lived through it; it was there, when I was younger. Now it's gone. You can see that even with Iran. Bush rallied the faithful for full blown invasions of multiple middle eastern countries. Trump can't even do an air campaign in Iran without his coalition beginning to fracture beneath him. I think there's a time for some sort of atheist movement. But it cannot be the same character as the new atheist movement, which was fundamentally rebellious and caustic. If there is one now, it needs to be the irreligious moving in to take their spot as the spiritual majority of America. One that provides a mature counterweight to the flailings of American Christianity as it copes with the loss of its power and influence.
>>25278338East Asian countries are said to be atheist as well. Yet spending time there, it's not long before you're confronted with peculiar ceremonies, shrines, and various other signifiers of a spiritual life. Similarly, Western social media is inundated with posts about astrology, paranormal sightings, and quasi-spiritual occurrences like UFOs. I'd say that the decline in religious affiliation is not a decline in spirituality. New Atheists rode a wave of skepticism towards large, power-hungry institutions and religious bodies are one of the few from which ordinary people can easily divest themselves. It should be pointed out that, not long after the growth in skepticism towards religious institutions, there was also a growth in skepticism towards institutional science, corporations, and the government as a whole. So it's clearly part of a much bigger pattern.
>>25278321>New Atheism is just a radioactive movementNew atheism won. It's not a radioactive movement, it's just dead. >>25278318>Atheism+ was a movement which tried to package progressive idea in with atheism and it failed pretty spectacularly to the point no one really is even aware their movement existedThis is what killed it. The great schism of atheism, wherein a good portion of the "followers" of New Atheism decided that actually they loved religion, if it meant hating the west. Most starkly seen in the fracture point of radical Islam, because the progs wanted to protect them so much they wanted their atheism movement to go to bat for their insane religious beliefs - apparently the incoherence of this was not an issue. Obviously the bigger part of the whole thought this was insane and lots of infighting ensued. If you didn't live to see life before New Atheism you don't know what you're talking about though, creationism was still a serious ongoing battle that retards in the US wanted to put into the educational system. All that remains are the sad intelligent design creationists at the Discovery Institute. We still had an expectation that religious beliefs were sacred and beyond critique. For a real taste of this go look at the debate couch about Life of Brian. It seems ludicrous to us now but even in the 80s and 90s (era of satanic panic and playing ozzy backwards) these people had real power in the cultural sphere. Even after 9/11 Bush himself drew a distinction between Islam and "radical" Islam. It took a couple of decades to get over this derangement.
>>25276584>the circumstances that facilitated their rise in the 2000s are recurring again.I wish you would have articulated this point more, because from my point of view it’s not even close. The modern Christian revival is way more of a cultural and political affiliation than a genuinely spiritual one, ironically mimicking much of the “clash of civilizations” rhetoric that many New Atheists subscribed to.It took a long ass time and multiple decades of young people growing up in “Evangelical” households for New Atheism to spawn as some kind of backlash. You had the original Jesus Freaks in the 70s, then the Satanic Panic in the 80s, then the violent video game and satanic panic of the 90s and 2000s, and the anti gay shit just looked cruel because they didn’t have any power and people still felt bad for them. All this contributed to the eventual outburst of New Atheism.Things are a lot different today. Right wing “Christians” today are more likely to complain that there are not ENOUGH titties, violence, naked bitches, and gore in media than the opposite. Also the gay stuff, which was a huge factor in the rise of atheism due to the cruelty people believed was being inflicted on gays due to religion and the religiosity of the arguments against gay marriage, is much different today than it was then. Back in the 2000s, pretty much every secular person was pro-lgbt, very few had non religious arguments against them. In the decades since, gays have attained much more political and cultural power, far more than Christianity has today, and quite honestly the way they’ve wielded it has been pretty shitty and resentful, turning many secular people who may have felt bad for them in the past when they were weak, against them.
>>25276584Abrahamics ruined it all.Age of Osiris is gay
>>25278304>A destitute life? In what sense? He over indulged, but he took care of his own family. The divide with his brother is surely a two way streetHe was a bisexual, adulterous drug addict>Have you ever heard Peter Hitchens speak? He can't handle a 30 year old challenging him without raging around the room throwing pillows about, I can only image what it would be like having him as a brother.Not entirely relevant to the argument, I said they didn't agree and left it at that>Christopher Hitchens was, first and foremost, a journalist, repeatedly going into war zones in order to see for himself and report such. Now, he may have come to some bad positions on foreign policy, but you seem to have a personal reason for exaggerating his flawsThe Trotskyist to neocon pipeline is too common to ignore>When he lay dying, his wife and kids were by his side, wishing he could live. Hardly compatible with the portrayal you're trying to put around about him.I'm amazed they even stayed considering how Chrissy treated them.
>>25278308I agree with zoomers that its millennial cringe. I once was that kind of person and I'd rather not be that kind of person anymore. I'm amazed at how much better i get along with my family by throwing that part of my life into the dustbin.
>>25278358You're conflating atheism with general skepticism. While most activist atheists fight both they're not actually the same thing. There's no gods hiding behind every instance of woo. No particular goblin inside of a tarot deck or astrology column. UFOs is probably the worst example since neither atheism or skepticism really opposes the idea, other than the fact that all the evidence so far has been bullshit (yes, I also mean the fucking military tic tacs and other blurry bigfoot pictures that blow Roganite minds).
>>25278375>i was such a cunt to everyone and my family it ruined my relationships and it's atheism's fault i'm saved now since i abandoned atheism, halleljuah
>>25278358>skepticism towards institutional science, corporationsThe same route from Plato to Postmodernism. We are essentially making ourselves into beings without foundations
>>25278381Glad my post irritated you enough to respond
>>25278387That you're still proud of being a cunt confirms you misidentified the problem. Get better soon.
