I don't care.

>>25282747
What a brain dead take on the Illiad. No matter how noble Hector is the Trojans were in the wrong. They violated xenia when Paris abducted Helen while visiting Sparta as a guest. At any point they could have just abandoned Paris and also given Helen back, but they decided to sacrifice their city to protect them. Were some of the Greeks less than honorable? Sure. Doesn't change that they were completely right in sacking Troy. The ones that went too far were punished. Some were doomed before they even sailed. A bunch of people larping as Trojans because the Romans did it shouldn't change how you view the story.

>>25282747

Greeks and Trojans were ethnically and culturally identical.

>>25282747
A great example of why the rightoid is unable to understand art.

>>25282793
t. Giorgios

>be from US
It has been doomed from the start.
>romans are wanna be trojans
The old Germanic aristocracy, too. (Read the Nibelungenlied.)
>Either way it seems the only right interpretation is the trojans were the good guys all along and the Greeks are genocidal maniacs
Or the people just liked to make allusions back then.
Do you know the song text of "The British Grenadier"?

>>25282793
To my knowledge, the story about Discordia etc. was invented later. If the ancient civilization had continued to develop without Christianization, the story of the Trojan War would have been hugely modified. You can already see attempts at this in Roman times, when the Romans began to claim Troy as their origin.

There is a dynamic to invent new stories around a popular tale. For instance, authors create background stories for side-characters or invent new beginnings. You can observe this tendency today and even in antiquity.

>>25282828
My doomed from the start comment was more aimed at the House of Atreus and specifically Agamemnon.

There is no right or wrong. This is still the mindset of pagan japan, they don't make movies depicting americans as le bad guys when depicting their suffering during ww2.
They were both good guys.

Americs or current Europe has nothing to with either, they are both inheritors of Jerusalem.

>>25282747
Always been a trojan chud
I guess I just like underdogs
Plus Hector and priamus are top tier

>>25282793
>Paris abducted Helen
It’s actually ambiguous the extent to which Helen is culpable. She may well have run off with Paris.

>>25282937
There are essentially three ways it could go
>Aphrodite forces Helen to run off with Paris
>Paris just grabs her and takes her
>Helen runs off on her own will

I think there is a line during either the Illiad or Thebaid where Helen argues with Aprhodite and implies that the goddess influenced her into running off with Paris.

>>25282747
There is no one "in the wrong" in the Iliad, besides Paris. They're all heroes

It’s like the US Civil War. The South can be admired for their bravery and tactical skill despite being morally in the wrong for importing millions of negroes and ruining the country forever

>>25282973
I thought that by the time of the siege, Aphrodite's influence on Helen had worn off and she no longer loved him and by extent Paris had become a selfish and cowardly stereotype as well. Makes it more tragic that Troy was essentially dying for something that didn't even matter anymore I guess.

>he still thinks the Greeks plundered the richest city in the East for a woman

lol

>>25285196
Troy died because Zeus saw that there were too many people on earth

>>25285375
>he actually believes that sea raiders would lay siege on a city for 9 years as to make profit

>>25282747
>who is in the right and wrong
Retarded binary Christfag morality strikes again.
The ancients would have laughed at your moral hangups.

>>25285437
>he projects the role of plunder in a capital society against its role in a kleos society

>>25282747
Homer fucked up by making Hector too honorable and charismatic. Or maybe, ''too relatable'' for normal people. I mean, Iliad is basically a Hector story, we see him fighting against the greeks and driving them to dispair until Aquileus snaps and with the help of the Gods kills one of the most entereining characters without difficulty and drags his corpse like a barbarian. Only ultimate megalomaniacs blessed by the Gods would be inspire by Aquileus like Alexander the great.

But yes, the Trojans were in the wrong. Also the Gods already decided.

>>25285462
well, the fates were decided, not all the gods. but then zeus was just as often seen as being above fate as he was seen as being subject to it. nothing, neither fate or the gods, is considered an absolute power in homer (the greeks understood the world - only death is inevitable). not sure the trojans were in the wrong (with the exception perhaps of one), not that it matters, the iliad isn’t star wars it doesn’t repay this particular sort of fandom. picking sides, keeping score. homer simply isn’t playing that game and never was. the poem doesn’t want your verdict. it wants something considerably more uncomfortable than that.

>>25282793
>completely right in sacking Troy.
just how the fuck does anything that happened with paris abducting a woman justify sacking a city? are you mentally ill?

>>25285462
Have you ever considered that Homer didn't "fuck up" and that there was actually intent behind representing Hector that way in opposition to the Godlike Achilles?

>>25285948
Im pretty sure Aristotle made a critique about homer for inspiring people "wrong values". I can only imagine the ancient greeks did took Achiles side and 100% believed the greeks to be justfied. But anyway what I get after finishing Iliad is the tragedy was Agamenon's heresy against Apollo and the rage of Achiles caused the Aquives to die more than they should. The "moral" is the selfshiness of few lead to the death of thousands. And the same can be said for Troy.

>>25286303
you’re thinking of plato.
homer obviously doesn’t piously exalt his rulers: he treats achilles with irony; portrays agamemnon, high king of greece, as weak, lying, greedy, etc. homer wasn’t a solemn old bore, but an iconoclast with a deep sense of irony.

>>25282973
You forgot:
Helen doesn't leave with Paris but instead Hera makes a doppelganger clone of her that leaves with Paris

Ive always been an Odysseus Chad. Reading Thucydides and a smattering of Greek plays did force me to evaluate what's happening more critically.

>>25286320
>iconoclast
Homer praises the older generation and mocks the younger. He does this in both the iliad and the odyssey

He is the ultimate boomer unironically

>>25285967
Because a prince of Troy violated the sacred laws of hospitality, fled, and then Troy protected him despite such. There is a reason there are so many Greek myths where a human treats a god in disguise badly and pays for it. The same with Pemelope's suitors. They were bad guests which is a religious offense. Mind you there was an aspect of Zeus that specifically dealt with hospitality laws. You even see this cultural norms broadly in Indo-European cultures.

To say nothing of the historical norm about what happens to cities where the attackers a assault and take the city
Sacks were 100% normal and expected for the next 2000 years.

>>25282793
Troy was establishing itself as the true authority of the region through trade, Helen represents the allegiance of the plebs and control of the land. The warrior class either reclaims authority through war or dies.
The gods of love, poetry, agriculture, trade and the sea sided with the Trojans.
The gods of war, practical wisdom and traditional hierarchy sided with the Greeks.

>>25287573
>The gods of war, practical wisdom and traditional hierarchy sided with the Greeks.
Ares literally sides with the trojans

>>25287591
God of valor in combat and raw brutality as opposed to Athena of military strategy and the established warrior class.

>>25282747
I know that we are supposed to view Paris as a naivi kid for picking a woman instead of being a great warrior or the king of fucking Europa, but surely the Goddess of love and beauty is supposed to be the most beautiful, right?

>>25287613
He didn't have a choice that didn't lead to war, discord was not invited so she introduced an impossible choice designed to lead to war. Paris choosing Hera or Athena would mean betraying Troy, choosing Aphrodite meant betraying the Greeks. Aphrodite is a goddess not a woman.

OMG DO WE REALLY NEED TWO ILIAD THREADS IS THIS A FUCKIGN RAID

>>25287572
...so?

>>25282747
They haven't, but I only read it once.
Obviously the Greeks are in the right, they are the heroes, the conquerors, and casus belli.
Framing any ancient army as "genocidal maniacs" is basically redundant in my mind.

>>25282828
>For instance, authors create background stories for side-characters or invent new beginnings. You can observe this tendency today and even in antiquity.
Porphyry had a whole work titled "On the Names Omitted by Homer" which has always been hilarious to me, it's like the ancient version of Wookieepedia deeplore

>>25287545
>ultimate boomer
that’s nestor - who was homer’s favourite punchline (after agamemnon). nestor consistently gives bad advice which agamemnon always adopts (whereas polydamas consistently gives good advice, which hector always rejects).

>>25282747
The whole time, I kept getting confused which guy fought for which side.