>>25289872
You're a failed normgroid so sure, if you could have succeeded in life and had decent looks and a job you'd be a mindless idiot. Some people are actually out of step with normies on an internal level and no amount of real world success would make them feel like they fit in. You don't get it and you never will.

>>25289872
Reminder that this is what Mishima said about Dazai:
>No matter how strong someone appears, as a human being they'll have weak points which can quickly take them down if exploited; but what I mean by 'weakling' in this chapter is rather someone who shamelessly displays their weakness and turns it into a product to sell. The representative example here is the novelist named Osamu Dazai, who, turning his weakness into his greatest asset, has courted the sympathy of youngsters until finally his malign influence has given them a warped inferiority complex that declares strength itself bad. On this account even a Dazai disciple like Hidemitsu Tanaka -- a sturdy, good-natured former Olympic athlete -- reached the insane view that his bodily strength meant he had no literary talent and then followed after Dazai in committing suicide. This is a chilling real example of how a weakling can bully a strong man and eventually kill him.

>>25289885
t. fakecel

>>25289872
otto weininger and carlo michelstaedter

>>25290010
>until finally his malign influence has given them a warped inferiority complex that declares strength itself bad
i don't believe this actually happened. Any critique based on such a fantastical delusion outside the work itself is not worth reading.

>>25290026
No Longer Human is itself a fantastical delusion so it's a moot point

>>25290026
>Any critique based on such a fantastical delusion outside the work itself
It's not a critique of NLH, it's an incidental remark Mishima made in an essay on weakness that is more so directed at Dazai's whole literary and public persona (which Mishima famously despised)
I envy those of you who can't read Japanese and haven't had to suffer through Dazai's other works beside NLH that nobody today cares about outside Japan

>>25290010
I don't need a reminder that Mishima was a retard, its patently obvious

>>25289872
My Diary Desu, coming soon to a bookstore near you

>>25289872
Kobo Abe. The Box Man and The Face of Another.

>>25290064
Nothing retarded in what he wrote. Dazai hated himself too.

>>25289885

Lol this. I am ok looking and have a decent job. But nothing will make me truly fit in.

>>25290128

You're just narcissistic.

>>25290010
>Reminder that this is what Mishima said
Mishima was a fag larper who wanted to play tough warrior guy but the one time he actually could have fought in a war he faked an illness to dodge it. He even used to get boys from gay clubs to help him fetishistically act out his own suicide but when it came time to do it (during a pitifully failed coup btw) he couldn't even do THAT right so his gay lover had to put him out of his misery. Mishima probably hated Dazai so much because he saw in him a more honest version of himself (minus the homosexuality of course)

>>25290196
Just ad hominem altogether, that's what you /lit/ niggers do best instead of actually discussing literature. Same with Nietzsche. Kill yourself you fucking faggot niggertroon.

>>25290196
>Mishima probably hated Dazai so much because he saw in him a more honest version of himself
Mishima lived ten times more honestly than Dazai. The guy was a fucking hack's hack and would be a complete unknown in the West if it weren't for foids and fakecels latching onto No Longer Human
The two of them are like the perfect example of Huey Newton's concept of Reactionary Suicide vs Revolutionary Suicide

>>25290220
Everything I said was completely true.

>>25290229
Then why did he fake an illness so he didn't have to fight in the war? Why didn't he have the strength and courage to actually kill himself and require his gay lover to do it?

>>25290220
>complaining about ad hominem in an ad hominem thread replying to an ad hominem post while engaging in ad hominem

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>>25289872
every time, every time, we get a /lit anon feeling as though the guy is too much of a loser, or not enough of one, too many artifacts disqualifying him from being "one of us, the real weirdos, no job no gf essentially-ontologically-virgin loser."
alright brace yourself, the indictement in the book wasn't clear enough, hopefully mine will be: you're doing the exact thing Yōzō does: he performs normalcy because he feels disqualified from being human, and you're performing the inverse, disqualifying him for not looking disqualified enough. the friends are the clown-mask. the sex is the clown-mask. you read the the factoids, and it went completely over your head those were the disguise.
Kierkegaard: the sickness that wears the bloom of health and calls it wellness, healthiest-seeming exactly when the rot is ruefully terminal. you got it all backwards. the khv with no job no gf who knows he's wretched is the lesser despair. it's conscious of itself. it's legible. it has a name and a board and a flag other anons can verify. yay for you. that's not the deep one. that's despair you can wear. the deep one is the one that smiles, holds down the job, fucks, and dies anyway with everyone at the funeral surprised. Yōzō is the second man. you asked for the first because the first is your incel merch. you wanted alienation with a body count you can identify with. the costume is available at any quantity, any board, any night. and what you don't get is the thing Dazai had, which is the inability to take the costume off, which you'd call a successful life and he called a death sentence. Yōzō would have killed to be your real weirdo. your real weirdo at least gets to be honestly outside. Yōzō never gets outside. he's trapped smiling at people he's certain he's failing to be human in front of, and the smiling is the punishment, not the isolation.
okay the part that gets me all the lovely rude diminutives! female loneliness doesn't read as loneliness. she has the means to perform connection if she wanted, a few friends, a few men down to fuck her any time she gives him a yes. she's not lonely to you, she's not to people like you, every dumbass on this board who thinks a body count is a disqualification from despair. she could fuck her way across the entire thread and you'd file it as proof she was never alone, the precise mechanism by which she stays alone. invisible the way Yōzō is invisible.
you don't want lit. you want a mirror. a window into a life as miserable as yours, rendered honestly -- nah, not interested. you want the reflection that flatters the outsider-aesthetic you already decided you are. this book gave (well it tried and failed) you the window. and the best you could do is stand there mindless, in front of it, asking why it isn't showing your stupid (kidding i'm sure it's lovable :^)) face.

>>25290352
>aaaaaaa i have too much sex and too many girlfriends and my lobster is too tasty and my wallet can't hold all my notes i'm truly No Longer Human
Fuck off

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>>25290360
keep thinking yourself as the sole loser on all entire motherly earth is not the own you think it is, sweetheart. cry me a fucking river.

Being able to get a girlfriend would literally heal me completely but its the one thing I can't do. Anyone who "suffers" while still being able to maintain the pretense of a normal life like this does not even know the meaning of true pain.

>>25290010
if the "strong" can be bullied by the weak they're not strong to begin with

>>25290352
Tldr

>>25289872
This novel is called "No Longer Human", but it should be called "Never Been Human to Begin With" because fakecels are not humans, only Trvecels are

>>25289872
First world problems: the book

always a good listen as an audiobook. it speaks to me. it is a voice next to my freak side.

>>25289885
>normgroid
>normies
Does using "fag" make you uncomfortable, normalfag?

>>25290375
i can't, i really can't with the secularized culture romance that replaced religion as the salvation-system nowadays. reading you, all i can see is that it devoured you; the minute we all stopped believing in God, we made a deity of each other, of the holy sacred romantic partner. and i cannot even fault you, because you, yourself, didn't do it, you didn't invent the belief that a girlfriend is the quick fix for everything, this is cultural inheritance, a century of cinema & advertising od'ing on romance as the vector for every emotional experience did that. then the new manosphere theology came, & weaponized it, & made you feel like you're just in pain, all you need is that one pure girl, poof, spiritual inner life back in good shape. this is withdrawal at every level of your being, from a salvation myth.
believing another person will heal you is legitimately one of the most dangerous things you can believe for yourself, man, all it does is make your entire existence contingent on an external event you won't ever control, and what if you got the girl? huh? you'd discover she didn't heal you, you'd need the next fix, the next salvation, desire, wanting is engineered to be unsatisfiable, that's lacan for you.
you don't need romance, you need people, stop discounting friendship, stop buying onto the idea a friend isn't & won't be able to give you recognition, acceptance, the very experience of being known. the romance-as-alpha-and-omega script is what's keeping lonely men from the connections that are available, even here, of all places.
where i'll concede, though, self-awareness is a scarcity i'll own, i'm not a man, i'll never know what it is to be a man locked out of male validation, to be invisible in all the despicable specific ways the dating market makes you invisible, won't go & pretend the resilience i have is available to you the same way; solitary resilience comes easier to women in some ways -- we're permitted loneliness differently, permitted friendship differently, & the data proves it. (and there are rejections that run the other way you'll never get to feel either) the first part still is true, still is something you need to reconcile with.

>>25290401
lmao, like i could do tl;drs.
performing humanhood and knowing it will be flagged as a failure, is its own experience of acute loneliness, it shouldn't be discarded because it reads as less visible than incontestable non self-inflicted solitude.

>>25290372
>uh i'm le heckin no longer le heckin human because one time i felt sad about my gf
Dazai is a hack

>>25289872
The 'sameness' of /lit/ is fascinating. You can leave for a year, come back, and there is still basically always

- a No Longer Human thread like this
- Blood Meridian thread
- Lolita thread
- a women thread
- one Nick Land thread
- a Mark Fisher thread
- one Lovecraft thread
etc.

>>25290375
>Being able to get a girlfriend would literally heal me
Disgusting pussy worshipping simp

>>25289885
This. I have a career, wife, children and own a house. I have never been happy in life not even for a moment.

What people don't understand is that "in els" are blessed. Incels think that if they had a girlfriend and a nice job their life would be fixed and they would be happy. Having that perspective is a privilege but you don't realize that.

Meanwhile men that actually have had relationships, a career and a "normal" life understand that none of these things bring happiness at all and you're still your unhappy self, but now with the added depression that you don't even have something to look forwards to or see some sort of hypothetical cure or solution.

Imagine you have a 1% income, a loving wife, sweet healthy children and you STILL feel like you're feeling now. What the fuck can you even do at that point???

That is the life I've been living. There's a reason billionaires have the highest rate of depression out of all demographics. It just exposes how happiness is impossible to reach no matter what you do or achieve.

Happiness just like love is merely a Disney invention, it's not real and never was real. Every normalfag is merely trying their entire life to reach the next milestone because maybe, maybe they will finally be happy once they reach it. When you have reached all the milestones you just realize it was all a facade and happiness is a ruse and was never real in the first place.

Incels therefor can never be truly depressed, because they still deeply believe happiness is (theoretically) possible for them if only they reach the next milestone (girlfriend)

>>25290592
Also Fukuyama and anti natalism thread

>>25290683
Holy cope

>>25290036
>No Longer Human is itself a fantastical delusion
You can't have a problem with fiction as a medium by your participation in this thread.

>>25290051
>Dazai's whole literary and public persona
Personally, I have never once concerned myself with the gossip and trivia (or "biography") of an author. So much so that I can't fathom how it could be interesting.

>>25290010
Ahaha based Dazai

>>25290191
You have no idea what it's like living in my head normie. You won't last 5 minutes

>>25290229
Dazai makes incels and retards seethe, huh. Another thing to like about Dazai.
>>25290010
Mishima it seems was a massive retard, unintelligent and weak while pretending to be otherwise. Embarrassing for his readers.

>>25290521
4chan is for men only. Tits or GTFO.

>>25289872
>the book is about a man who has been performing humanity since age six and finally runs out of performances. that's it. yozo is not a failed artist. he is a successful clown who got tired. the communist party is a costume he wears for nine pages. the woman is a costume. the asylum is the costume coming off. you read it in the original and missed the mask because the mask is the prose.

>>25291019
who are you talking to and who are you quoting?

>>25290521
nta and outside your incel-exchange but—
>solitary resilience comes easier to women in some ways
is it? isn't this the exact opposite of how the sexes work? my understanding - and I am terribly undersocialised owing to my peculiar life-experience - was that women are constitutively predisposed to and have high preoccupation with the "less-subtle"; such as sex, social relationships (friendships and community), physical bodies, and general materiality, whereas men tend much more towards disidentifying and transcending, which being how one is qualified to sacrifice, renounce, and lead - how the metaphysical principle manifests in the sexes. I understand that solitariness is something men will seek and benefit from in the manner, rate, and degree that women will not. In general. The /average/ woman is much more loathsome than the average man. The differences in the spiritual apparatuses of males and females are very blatant.
btw, you referenced a psychoanalyst. even /lit/ for all their regrettable membership knows that psychiatrists are destructive/morally problematic and unintelligent. women are at the forefront of evangelizing the evil zeitgeist of the psychiatric institution with total disregard for their firm and alive legacy of effecting the gravest, impossible to comprehend atrocities in human history and I have unspeakable hatred for it.
while incels are the lowest caste of men, you can't be reading the needs you know in their self-report, and you can't rely on their vocabulary because they don't understand their own condition.

>>25291069
funny you'd write that, honestly, i was reading on somatophobia all throughout the night. anyway, ~in which good faith anon anon has psychophilic somatophobia & alas, calls it transcendance~, i'll be nice, & i won't bite, because for once, this is the contemplative-misogynist register, not /pol/ crude's one. >undersocialised
>spiritual apparatuses
>the metaphysical principle manifests in the sexes
you may be earnest & half-read, you're not quite subtle. (just a tiny bite, i lied)
the entire post kinda reeks of Plato's Phaedo and Aristotle's Generation of Animals recited as if it were your own very observation of nature. everything fits, it all fits. the body-as-prison, the soul straining at its lowly material housing, the female as passive matter the male "fashions into form," woman "a deformed male," colder, wetter, closer to the merely-bodily. your "understanding" isn't an inference, is it? it's a 2500 year old ideological apparatus.
psychophilic somatophobia -- love of the soul plus fear and contempt of the body stacked on each other -- and the contempt for the body and the contempt for women are one and the same contempt, historically wielded, weaponized. this isn't an achievement, the transcendance & high forms of instinctive leanings of men who tend to "transcend from bodily crude nature" isn't a cure, it's a plain phobia.
and women well, they're not coquettes simpletons or bimbos, they're just the ones that the narrative excluded from having the fantasy, that there's an exit to the very lowly nature of humans.
which isn't to say immanence (staying-within, the body, the domestic, the material) versus transcendence (reaching-beyond, the project, the world) is not real, only real as a situation, not an inherent vocation. we've just seen some (us) confined to one pole others (you) can experience yourselves as those free birds, purely as the others.
re: psychiatry. you can have your anti-psychiatry or, you can have your spirit-over-matter hierarchy. but trying to have both, is the cake & the eating of it, & all. truly same thing, different coats.

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>>25291069
can you elaborate; what are the atrocities perpetrated by psychiatry?

what's your opinion on adhd and autism?

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>>25290766
You've read one (translated) work by each author at most, you are in no position to weigh in on their quality. Dazai's prose and writerly vision are incredibly trite, he had the same fascination with western psychology and the rise of urbanism as the rest of the pre-war cohort but without any of the talent that made people like Natsume Sōseki, Yumeno Kyūsaku, Okamoto Kidō, or Oda Sasunosuke worth reading. Even Edogawa Ranpo handled Dazai's themes in more interesting ways, and it's probably no accident that The Black Lizard was one of Mishima's favorite childhood novels (to the point where he later produced a stage adaptation and had a role in the 1968 film version)
At the end of the day, Dazai is reddit and Mishima is 4chan

>>25289872
I like this book

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>>25289872
This lil nigga was 4chan incel material, true blue

>>25291221
>your "understanding" isn't an inference, is it? it's a 2500 year old ideological apparatus.
>"transcend from bodily crude nature" isn't a cure, it's a plain phobia.
Thank you for the input ChatGPT. That would explain why there is no actual thrust to this post, though the admission in the previous one finally confirms exactly who it is defending Dazai (as if anyone were confused)

Dazai was no different from a woman who is incapable of appreciating what she has. Completely selfcentered asshat.

>>25291221
>you can have your anti-psychiatry or, you can have your spirit-over-matter hierarchy
Not that anon but you can have both if you accept psychiatry in theory and reject the current application as a Phoenician Spear of Longinus

>>25291069
>>25290521
>all lowercase
Shan't be reading that

>>25290704
You... are aware that No Longer Human is an autobiographical novel, right? If you find the book interesting you find Dazai's personal life interesting
Even the drowning incident is a real thing Dazai did years before his successful shinjū, he was an absolute scumbag

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>>25291512
oh yes, chatGPT, oh wait- what's that, dumbass? might it, might it just be? the ai detection tool UChicago benchmarked over every competitor and you, you posted "thank you ChatGPT" under its high-confidence human verdict, with the number right there, & chose your gut (we're not done with it, yet) your fucking gut, running a worse hit-rate than a machine hitting consistent 0.0001, & you brought it to an intellectual discussion with legitimate -- no shallow complexities-- discussion like a wet little party trick. clap clap. and jesus if you're not deserving to be called a fucking blissful brainless cretin, the very two lines with the most thrust in the post were easily those you highlighted, & thought sensible, worse, fucking worthwhile to come, read me, & use your useless fingers to qualify as thrustless. those are the unambiguous cuts. the flat-declarative that reframes the whole post in six words is the thrust, mine was compression, & you wouldn't recognize that register if it walked up & shanked you in the gut (i promised you we'd get back to it: we kinda determined it was useless & failing at every level, anyway, honestly), absence of heat =/= absence of force. still cannot believe you quoted the sharpest lines as evidence of dullness & ai-coded thrust, the highlight is your self-own. so what i want you to do, hear me out okay, this is for your own: go to bed tonight, lie in it, & think of how much of an embarrassingly brazen bold-faced meathead you are. and rot a while, with that thought, darling, do that for me, okay? i wasn't even defending Dazai, & truthfully? don't even peculiarly like the book. the post never said No Longer Human is good -- it said to discard it because Yōzō isn't a visible enough loser is the dumbest possible misread, the entire mechanism of the novel is that Yōzō looks fine & is dying anyway, the looking-fine is the little death. you don't get to reject the book on the grounds it refused to hand you the outward-loser cosplay in incel cloths you came shopping for. OP wanted a mirror that'd validate his existence, it gave him a man who passes & dies & he called him a normie & left. is that a fucking reading? no. that's just a guy throwing a tiny wee tantrum, storming out of a museum because none of the paintings were of him.

>>25291512
will back to that one, lot to unpack here.

>>25290766
incels like dazai though

My incelism is very simple, I was accused of SA when I was very young and it really fucked me up. Stacked on top of some other bad experiences, I developed severe PTSD synptoms.

Even when I have gotten in bed with women, I get so nervous that I get ED. So the problem just compounds on itself and you get this crushing lonliness and anxiety where your own body seems to be conspiring against you to deprive you of something essential to the human condition.

Its easy to say "oh women are just able to deal with lonliness better", but are they really? Cuz most women I know jump from one partner to another. It's not exactly normal to spend years without any kind of romantic or physical connection.

Honestly my whole life sucks. My parents are assholes. My hometown is a shithole. All my friends died when I was young. At one point I was so tired of everything I just laid down and quit. For two years. I was homeless, slept on park benches, did a lot of petty crime, smoked a lot of weed. Met some of the most interesting people you can imagine during that time.

Eventually you realize that not only does nobody give a shit about you, they actively hate you. Our whole society is set up to crush men for being poor or disposble. There are no government services for you. Its weird when you see literal refugees showing up in the country and getting helped on their feet within aeeks, but you're just left to rot. I got arrested a couple of times over bullshit. You know what its like being locked in a cage just for stealing a pair of socks? Or for simple existing as a poor person?

At the height of my dispaire I started experiencing a voice, that would come and talk to me from time to time. Eventually the voice explained that it was Satan. That we were living in hell. That there is no happy ending, no release from this suffering. That the whole world is a mirror image of the spiritual kingdom within our souls, a place where evil men are celebrated as moral while the innocent and gentlest are treated as criminals and brutalized. He laughed at all my aspsratioms, my dreams, my hopes, and showed ample proof of the vanity of all of it. He explained the underhanded manner by which he had elevated every important man into positions of prestige. And he initiated me into many other mysteries of reality.

You have to laugh at it all, really. The while world is just a sick joke pulled on good men. Everything is the opposite of what it seems, a tremendous gaslight. Its like that Charlie Brown comic, where he keeps trying to kick the football. Maybe this time it will happen, maybe this time it wont hurt. But it always does. And you get up again, and dust yourself off, and tell yourself no, this time I'm going to do it for real, this time I'm it will soar through the air, free as a bird, and everyone will cheer. And then you end up laying on your back in the dirt again, and everything hurts, and you have to wonder why.

>>25290220
>Mishima was so le heckin based chad
>kek Mishima was a fag coward larper who couldn't even kill himself right
>YOU DID AN AD HOMINEM AND YOU'RE A NIGGER AND YOU'RE A FAGGOT AND YOU'RE A TRANNY AND
kek it's so easy to make mishimafags seethe, all you have to do is recite his wikipedia page

>>25291250
Politely, I don't have anything to say on either matters today that does justice to the subject, I dearly hope that I will quite soon.

>>25291221
>i was reading on somatophobia all throughout the night. anyway
more psychiatrist dogma, as if the philosophy readers here weren't bad enough. If you're able to slurp all that up, I doubt we can talk on the same level, it becomes a matter of your natural constitution, heart and intellect, to spell that out for you. Admittedly, I am in far too low a state to be intelligent myself, probably why I came to this site.
I'm definitely not read-up in western anything, I have a dharma background, and even then, in forming my framework i defer ultimately to the authority of direct experience and mental reasoning of it, and so-
>recited as if it were your own very observation of nature
ironically enough.
I don't need to remind you how your little theory re psychophilia+somatophobia are not only weak even to immediate scrutiny of anyone half-sensible, but you are running against knowledge of the entire eastern tradition.
I don't say that I have contempt for women, only for the vast majority of all people, and I say that this emotional response is foolish and has basis in delusion, far from justifying it as concordant with a transcendental understanding of reality. no, not even a tiny insight could produce new hatred. Insofar as contempt, for the body or women, is rajas and tamas, it is not from knowledge.
your tradition, psychiatry, is destructive (morally and intellectually). anyway.
I only gave all that that you called plato-ian as a basis for the psychological differences in men and women as I have appeared to notice them, which, note that I was trying to pass it by you to get your thoughts on women's experience from a place of passing curiosity, I don't hold my own thoughts on women that are so liable to be ignorant in any seriousness. the silly theorizing is not privileged over genuine insight, contemplation, or even just talking to the right class of women.
even if I disapprove of your kind, which is statistically most probable, that does not extend to all women - should go without saying.

>>25292016 (You)
>your kind
i.e. caste
also, isn't being opposed to anti-psychiatry a plane admission to being a pos?
>>25291566
not going to press extra keys for you+feel moody

>>25292016
ugh, i'm bored... notice what happened here. to the certainty. to the scholarly faux-curiosity. last post the metaphysical principle manifested in the sexes, men were constitutively built to transcend, the average woman much more loathsome, the differences very blatant. one mordant retort later & suddenly it's oh, a teeny tiny harmless passing curiosity, oh but i was only trying to pass it by you for your thoughts, i don't hold thoughts on women liable to be ignorant, i'm far too low a state to be intelligent. post-hoc humility is just embarrassment that hasn't learned to hide. the whole edifice went meek the instant it was held to the light. feelings as cosmology =/= a framework, never, never, have i seen a man soften a thing he'd actually hold to be true, you do it, because you've seen it being dissected under harsher lights.
some men on /lit are so predictable, strip all the passing curiosity and the I'm too low a state humility-drag and what's left, huh? just one sentence, standing, erect, undisguisable:
>even if I disapprove of your kind, which is statistically most probable.
everything else is hedging, disavowal, the i-don't-really-hold-these-views retreat -- & then this, flat, unhedged, the only confident clause you let stand. so the curiosity was never curiosity. you hold precisely the position you spent paragraphs insisting you were unsure of. a man this eager to tell me he isn't sure of his contempt does not, by accident, end on the one line where the contempt is sure of me.

>>25292357
i abide by everything that i said and that you mutilated. Poor comprehension as a result of education in unfortunate pedagogy or just plane undignified? I won't be responding further if it's the latter.
>a man this eager to tell me he isn't sure of his contempt does not, by accident, end on the one line where the contempt is sure of me.
you read certainty where i say "statistically most probable". did you read when i said that i look down on most people? i also made sure to be explicit that i separate caste from gender groups just to repeat myself for the nth time and you missed it.

>>25289872
and not a single suggestion seems to have been given. what a shame, i want a book like that too. being depressed isn't enough, i want an actually unusual protag to read about.

>>25292450
Diary of a Wimpy Kid

>>25289872
dazai himself was basically a chad so not surprising. mishima is a bit better but all his protags are weird gay freaks (can't think why)

>>25291650
>You... are aware that No Longer Human is an autobiographical novel, right?
the operative word being "novel,"meaning "an extended fictional work in prose."
please don't confuse reality with writing. it's boring and makes you look retarded.

>>25290010
Reminder that virgin Mishima tried to embarrass chad Dazai, who teased him back and it made Mishima seethe.

https://youtu.be/X76Vud0CGMw?si=cHEo22DoXR5DCvH7