back to westeros with the young wolf editionASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersold: >>25310112
Winds of Winter when?
>>25334690Second for Stannis
Best reading order?New fan here
>>25334859Start with Winds.
this is how dragons look like in the HotD tv show HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>25334690more like "J. R. R. Fartin", hahaha
F A T F U C K
>>25334690Around 200 pages left of the dance of dragons. What to do after that? Wait?
>>25334949It’s more accurate to the books. Dragons are chimeric aberrations.
>>25335283You can wait if you want but it will just be pointlessIt’s best to just be at peace and appreciate what we have
Whatever came before the Valyrians bred dragons for the sea, not the sky. This is pretty obvious.
The Asshai shipwreck on the frozen shore Implies Asshai trades with other unknown civilizations to its east
>>25335336Do you think there were once “true” dragons that existed naturally or were all of them manufactured?
>>25335451I believe all dragons were made by mixing wyverns and great Empire of the dawn blood magic shenanigans
why is this 400 yr old hag lusting after teen cock?
I hate targaryensI hate their stupid hairI hate their stupid namesI hate how "special" they are because for some reason only their house and starks have access to magic I hate how they somehow menaged to make dragons boringI hate how they always take attention from more interesting parts of ASOIAFI hate those valyrian cunts
>>25335699>only their house and starks have access to magicYou forgot the Reeds and Hightowers.
>>25335719>ReedsDoesn't really count, they are starks cousins from florida>HightowerI forgot about them, seems like they do jack shit with it
>>25335699I used to be like you but then I realized they are extinct failures and I have no reason to be mad. Justice was served
>>25335768Based
>>25335442Mysterios
>>25335812WHO'S THAT TRADIN WITH ASSHAIR E Y MYSTERIOSHERE WE GO
If Ice and Fire is meant to be a deconstruction of Lord of the Rings then what's a deconstruction of Ice and Fire going to look like>>25335699Robert go to bed, you're drunk.Euron's going to down one of the dragons from the sea and raise it as a dragon-wight and not raise a kraken like we all think >>25334807December 15th 2026
>>25335310>Dragons are chimeric aberrationsYet it looks like a penis, not a chimeric aberration. Or maybe I have a very aggressive-looking penis. I don't know.
>>25335725>I forgot about them, seems like they do jack shit with itIn fact, the Hightowers are very involved with arcane arts. Magic studies are not banned per se, but they're discouraged, because that's the best way to maintain their monopoly.>>25335699I think this is an overreaction, but I sort of get where you're coming from. The silver-gold hair and purple eyes, along with everything else, feels rather Mary-Sue-ish, but GRRM balances it out by introducing a strain of madness. Also, they're one of the last surviving remnants of the Empire of Fire, so of course they're a bit overpowered.>>25335513Another possibility is that dragons were created by breeding wyverns with firewyrms.
>>25334807fpbp
>>25335844Based
>>25334949That's how they look like in the books too. George's dragons are kinda noodley.>The dragon's head was larger than a horse's, and the neck stretched on and on, uncoiling like some great green serpent as the head rose...>He could see what looked like some huge white serpent uncoiling inside the wall...>She watched his head crane around at the end of that long serpentine neck, saw his black wings unfold.
What did they mean by this?
>>25336121ACOK next
>>25336121The wit and wisdom of Tyrion Lannister pt 2
What the FUCK happens here?
>>25336280maze
>>25336179What I want is a spin-off book about Hot Pie living & working at that inn, with a detailed account of his daily life, every customer, every relevant convo, every meal in exhaustive detail, and also how every meal is cooked, the ingredients, and the backstory of those ingredients.
>>25336280Ruined portal to the multiverse
>>25336312Unironically would be kino
>>25335442>The Asshai shipwreck on the frozen shore Implies Asshai trades with other unknown civilizations to its eastYeah but if that Sunset Sea civilization was on-par with Asshai, they'd be trading with Westeros so it would appear to be just small islands with primitives.
>>25335812
>>25335442>civilizations to its east
>>25334859don't pick it up until it's finished. the suffering isn't worth it
>>25334859Just read the Dunk and Egg novellas
>>25334859Game of thrones Clash of kings Dunk and egg world of ice and fire Storm of swords Feast for crows Dance of dragons boiled leather
>>25336532Dang this map is sick
>But one secret remains. keep your eyes on the skies... another message is on its way.This is it. The final cope.
Man I just love the Free Cities.
>>25334690what is the best place to live in this world, and why is it Lys?
>>25338119Myr and Tyrosh are better if you're not a fag tbqhfamalam
Well winds is gonna be announced soon. I don’t really know how to about it, I just got used thinking it would never happen. What if it sucks
>>25338243How to feel about it*
>>25338243it won't bewhy the fuck would folio society know anything about winds, it's another expensive ass edition of one of his books
Howland Reed is Urrathon Night-walker.Howland Reed is Leyton Hightower. Howland Reed is The Perfumed Seneschal.Howland Reed is The Ghost of Winterfell. Howland Reed is The High Sparrow.Howland Reed is The Three Eyed Crow.Howland Reed is The Prince That Was Promised. Howland Reed is The Mount to bed, to dread and to love. Howland Reed is Quaithe. Howland Reed is The Great Other.
>>25338384
>>25338424
Do you think Glendon Ball joins Eggs kingsguard?
>>25338425Howland Reed warged into Arthur Dayne the Sword of the Morning (who weilds the real Dawn, even though I kinda think the real Dawn was a curved blade/arakh like anon posted last thread, perhaps the Daynes have confused their history and combined the real events of Azor Ahai with the Sword of Morning that comes from the Civlisation of the Dawn. Anyway Howland warged him and saved Neds life, Ned killed him in that moment, which would have bascially mind broken Howland since dying inside another body fucks up other wargs/greenseers.Howland not acting ever, even to visit Ned makes me think Howlands been wed to the trees and can't move anymore, and also can't let anyone see him in that state. Being wed to the trees means he's seeing the future and so doesn't bother sending his men to fight because he knows how it all plays and he wants to save them to fight the Others and probably against Euron
>Howland Reed>Howland Read>Howl and Read>Bran wargs summer and howls>reads shit because he is a nerdHowland Reed is time travelling Bran
>>25338243I'm not worried, if he dies before finishing the final book it won't change how things currently are no matter how good or bad this one will be, it'll just be another installment in an ultimately unfinished, unsatisfying, anti-climatic story.
I'm sure George (Where's my tax polic, George? Why do griffins have four legs but dragons don't, George? How's your cholesterol, George?) has no genuine ideas beyond a vague haze but I'd like to know yours on how magic actually works in the setting.
>>25339654I think there are no actual gods for starters, closest thing is weirwood network and other forms of magic which people link to respective gods that have been invented. There are some individuals using glass candles to obtain key info and give people visions, and these can then be passed off as actions of god(s) or revelations from god(s). There are examples of magic being used in a way so that it appears more powerful than it actually is (e.g. Mel receiving visions of kings dying and using that to pretend she caused their death), but blood magic is legitimately powerful and encompasses all the life/blood exchange-related feats. Skinchanging is its own branch of magic linked to weirwood net and the Others. I'm personally curious about how much genetics factor into whether a person can learn magic and how strong their magic can be. Obviously Bran is special but Euron's speech about anyone being able to "fly" is intriguing. Perhaps combination of shade of the evening and other specific stimuli can awaken magic abilities in any individual. Based on George's previous work it might be that belief in one's ability has a large impact on magic power, so maybe messing with psyche can enhance/awaken magic abilities.
>>25339800nah, the seven are confirmed to exist
>>25339654Magic = life force. The blood that flows through living things contains magical lifeforce, and can be used in sacrifice to buy life or combined with other living things to make super organisms and chimeras. The stars moons meteors and celestial bodies contain residue of ancient universal life force left over from the creation of the universe the same way we do, and are alive and magical in their own way that is incomprehensible to us, they are more like lovecraftian gods. The universe began in an explosion of immense heat and will continue to get colder until nothing exists. Every that exists and will ever exist, exists between the two ultimate extremes of opposite polarity. So artefacts of extreme heat and extreme cold are powerful conduits of this universal life force magic.
>>25339946https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seven_wanderersTrue
Moat cailin = the original wall used to seem like a schizo theory but as the years pass I like the theory more and more
KWAB
>>25339654Gods are anomalous energy concentrations that can form from worship or on their own in some circumstances and have power over their domains. The seven are weakened because nobody really takes them seriously and are entirely artificial. They, the gods, hang out and do their own thing on their own planes. Sacrifices grow their power. It doesn't diminish. True divinity is basically that, gaining power that doesn't drain with use. Only grows.Magic is easier if you've a blood tie to it or a tutor but anyone can learn anything with the right ideas. It's just rare. Magic is easier when there's power in the air, but you can do anything anytime. You just might need a lot of sacrifices. Some wizards gain a sort of divinity, a power that can be diminished but not permanently. It doesn't grow like the gods, though, only through self exercise of the arts. Everyone else, the rank and file, stocks up what they can. Dragons acted like a discount divinity, giving the rider and to a lesser extent those nearby access to an extra source of power. You could drink from the river of Asshai and get something similar, with more power the closer to the dead city headwaters you drank. If you survived. Probably other horrors like that out there. Damn near any kind of magical tradition will work, just some better than others. A curse works better if you frame it as astrological and decode star charts for an auspicious period, burning a sacrifice to flavour the magic than squatting in the dark and muttering mean words. Wizards who worship gods find that god's aligned powers easier, but they're never quite as strong as they might be otherwise. It feeds on them, magic and body, in a way they can't on a worshipper who isn't a practioner - and as soon as they die the god eats their soul. Sometimes people can carve a rut into reality, but not deeply. A prayer for protection or an evil eye warding gesture really work to ward off magic, but not strongly and only because generations have fed belief into that act. When people stop doing it, or if they don't believe it'll work, that rut heals over time.
>underage Arya gets beatings on her bare buttocksWhat did GRR Martin mean by this?
>>25340532George is a pedophile. It is known.
>Once, when she was just a little girl, a wandering singer had stayed with them at Winterfell for half a year. An old man he was, with white hair and windburnt cheeks, but he sang of knights and quests and ladies fair,Was this Mance Rayder?
>>25340532That's how we used to discipline children.
Guys the Folio Society is totally gonna announce Winds is finished instead of GRRM's actual publisher they said they have a secret announcement for ASOIAF it's totally happening this time for real
>>25340958Folio announcement is going to be Dunk and Egg books getting fancy hardcovers.>>25340224I do wonder how far along his notes and story beats for the other dunk and egg books are. Hell the second Fire and Blood should be the easiest thing to do since all the really weird worldbuilding/cultures/history we never saw in the main series was done in the first one. Think GRRM wants to hold it and other dunk and egg books back for spoiler reasons until Winds is done. Its the only reason I can think for why they're not done.
Is ASOIAF just GRRM's GURPS solo campaign?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoIb62THIT0
>>25335442It was never stated that the shipwreck belonged to Asshai, only the red fabric it carried. At most, we can assume that Asshai is part of a global trade network.
>>25340788If Mance had visited Winterfell 3 times instead of 2 he'd have boasted about it. There is more than one minstrel in ASOIAF>>25340532Go looking for innuendo in Arya chapters, GRRM doesn't disappoint
>>25341083>Folio announcement is going to be Dunk and Egg books getting fancy hardcoversthe one book already got fancy hardcovers
What if Folio is announcing the 4th Dunk and Egg novella?I think George could actually finish a Dunk and Egg short story and he sounded like he felt more interested in writing that at the time, so maybe he did.
oh snap, I just thought of it, my niggaz. You've probably noticed the correspondence between the weirwoods and their paste, versus the dark trees and shade-of-the-evening. But it goes further -- there's a direct analogy between the greenseers logged into Weirnet, and the Undying Ones of Qarth! In both cases, they have supernatural longevity and knowledge.>>25340669no, he's an ephebophile, that's totally different!>>25340531This is surprisingly similar to the irl magic occultists believe in, in which you act on higher planes of life-energy, imagination and thought instead of the material world.Anyway, I think the gods of ASoIaF are real, just aloof and distant from men. There are also different magic types, like fire, ice, water, and earth, each with their own powers, sacred sites, and magical artifacts eg horns. The gods seem to generally correspond with one of these magic types. The main exception is the Seven, who seem to represent urbane civilization in opposition to the wilderness of the Old Gods; maybe there's a sept magic, but it's unclear.>>25340099If the North was once overrun by the Others, it's definitely plausible.>>25338117They really are great. The map of them in one of the books has a crossed sword & axe as their emblem, which is even better.>>25338119That's not how you spell Braavos.
Why are people in Westeros so strangely patriotic? You'd think the average ironborn or northman would love to leave his shithole and move somewhere more hospitable. Are they forced to keep living on the lands by the local lords?
>>25343166Look at England. Its all a shit hole
>>25343329Yeah but in medieval times the norse preferred to immigrate to england because scandinavia was an even bigger shitholethe westerlands and the reach might not be perfect, but they're way better than the north and iron islands and yet for some reason most people are stuck to the places they were born in
>>25339654There’s something there. But it’s not for us to know.
>>25343340We can see the iron islanders migrating to some degree from time to time. The north doesn't as much because most are too poor to leave. You could uproot but and move but then what? Go to a land that is foreign with near nothing. I'm also not sure what the peasant moving laws are and if they would even be allowed to.
>>25343393>foreignBeyond the gods which very few people seem to care about, Westeros is petty homogeneous. A hovel in the Riverlands wouldn't be that strange for a northman. You also don't need that much money since Westeros has a medieval version of highways that you can simply walk during peace time with little trouble.
>>25343450The north specifically is very different. You have different gods which for the setting would automatically alienate migrants. The other aspects of culture are more different the farther south go. Actually travelling isnt incredibly difficult in peace time yeah, but you still have the issue of what do you do and wear do you go. As a peasant with a regular trade your options will either be go to a city and be poor or try to find an area to work for a lesser lord. The riverlands would probably be best for the northerns as they have proximity and a closer culture, and we do some northerns settle there (winter wolves) but i think it would just be too much of a gamble for most families as a whole. I know second sons often leave to find work and food elsewhere but its easier without a family
>>25343519Like I said, most people don't give a shit about the gods and the old gods especially are a completely disorganized religion. They have no priests or texts and they apparently just need weirwoods to kneel in front of from time to time. It's barely even a religion. >but you still have the issue of what do you do and wear do you go.Literally the same thing you do in the north or iron islands. The common people are even poorer in those places so it'd be very difficult for them to do worse.
>>25335310yeah well your mom is a chimeric aberration
Just a reminder that HotD S03 starts this Sunday.
>>25345236Boo
>>25345236Is this any good? I tried watching it, but in the very first scene on the first episode there was a monologue about how some le epic femoid got passed over for being femoid and how much of an injustice it was. I closed that shit down right away.
>>25345299If you get filtered by that you won't like the show.
>>25345236we do not care
Why is Martin triggered by Tolkien so much?
>>25345659Rightfully so, that show is for faggots and women
>>25345842none meme answer- he went to Tolkien's grave last year and saw all of the flowers and letters people are still leaving to this day and realizes he won't ever have that if he doesn't finish Winds and Dream
>>25345847I take it you're a big fan of it then.
>>25345299No the show sucks. Watched the first season and it was awful. Tries its hardest to whitewash (ironic) the blacks. Wooo wooo cgi everywhere
>>25345842What do you mean? He intends to emulate Tolkien by having his work left unfinished when he dies.
which character is hurt the most by the story remaining incomplete?
>>25345946(You), the reader.
>>25345946Dany, she was last seen shitting her guts out
>>25345946George’s character
Kinda surface level in terms of 'deep ASOAIF lore' but I think Marika, who has been missing for the whole game and for eras on the outside of the Erdtree, is crucified inside the tree is a symbolic stand in for Azor Ahai. Heis also trapped in the tree (the heart of winter/weirwoodnet). Marika may have attacked the Elden Beast and wounded it and was trapped inside as punishment (on top of the secret plan to overthrow the Golden Order via Ranni and the age of stars).I think Azoir Ahai, aside from being power hungry, wanted power magically and pollitically was trying to free Westeros and indeed all of Planteos from the weriwoods. I think this is his secret motive George will never ever state or imply directly. If you look at his work on the meta level, like Seven Times Never Kill Man, the gods in the pyramids hold the Jaenshi back technolgically and made them regress from being able to make plastic to stick and stones. I think that’s why Planetos is stuck in medieval tech for thousands of years, its weirwoods weakening the minds of everyone and prevent development. GRRM loves playing with the idea of people with bad motives happening to do the write thing for the wrong reasons
>>25345933Tolkiens main story was complete. The world was incomplete. Would be like George finishing the books but writing a big history book that he dies before completing
>>25345236More like Cold D lol
What are the chances of Bri killing Stannis in the books?
>>25346174Near 0 imo. I always saw her forgiving stannis as he was just doing what needed to be done. Much like jaime did with the mad king. Especially now that he has regrets over killing him
>>25336738But it will never finish.
>>25346275so never pick it up
>>25346136>Tolkiens main story was complete.Tolkien's main story was the Silmarillion. It was the one he was working on decades before he started LOTR and well after he finished it. LOTR was something he wrote because his publisher wanted a sequel to the Hobbit and wouldn't take the Silmarillion. He eventually came to think of LotR as equal to the Silmarillion in importance, but the Silmarillion was his life's work.
>>25346574>Tolkien's main story was the Silmarillion. Did he ever say that?
>>25346608nta but "Leaf by Niggle" heavily implies Lord of the Rings is the Leaf and the painting is the Silmarillion, and the entire story is about Niggle/Tolkien not being able to finish it
>>25335283It's not too late to quit, anon. You'll avoid wasting hours of your life.
>>25345953this>>25346083Fascinating speculation here. Could it be that not only Weirnet, but other magical powers, are keeping Planetos trapped at a medieval level?Also, the original meaning of "weird" meant to control fate, which I think is not a coincidence.Also, I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what exactly are the Others and their relation to the singers/CotF? I always assumed they were the agents of the Great Other, but it seems that Azor Ahai being trapped in Weirnet played a key role. Per Dany's visions in the House of the Undying Ones, it seems Azor Ahai was executed by the singers/CotF, then brought back by the Great Other, but I'm not clear on the details.>>25346574The Silmarillion is basically the complete record of Middle-Earth, so it was destined to be left unfinished. That said, there was still a substantial amount there, enough to be published in good form.The main epic of that world is Lord of the Rings, and it was in fact completed during Tolkiens lifetime, despite long breaks, much to his credit. The fat man may shit out Winds eventually, but he won't live to complete Dream of Spring.
ITS HAPPENING
>>25347502???
Could it be the others aren’t coming back per se, just multiplying because people like craster keep giving them infants? What evidence is there that the others are seeking to breech the wall and kill everyone south? I think they are still holding to the pact and if they get past the wall it will be a humans fault
>>25347502actively refreshing notablog
>>25347537Probably not1. Mance Rayder claims he united all the Free Folk because the dead are coming and they need to go south2.Thenns, First Men culture originally from the Valley furthest to the North, are rather eager to fuck off south3. Dany has a vision of fighting frozen dead army on the Trident4. I think there's some sort of similar dream thing with Jon, don't remember the details rn5. Melissandre also claims something like that. She might be projecting her religious beliefs.6. Show did it. Hardhome seems like it was set up by Gurm, hard to say about Ice Dragon, but maybe?8. It's a Song of ICE and Fire, okay?9. It is known
>>25347847you right you right
A Clash of KingsJust one Davos chapter so far. I did not expect Stannis to be such a crybaby, he doesn't look that threatening for the moment (I suppose we got Melisandre for that).
>>25348363Stannis is the Man. 65% chance that you'll acquire a liking for him by the end of the book or the next. it's hard to dislike him once you get to know him and see him develop.
Hi anons. Does anyone here wants to work as a writer for a mod? I really want to develop an asoiaf mod but my esl ass can't into writing. I'm not going to police the story as long as it fits the gameplay. The videogame in question is Sultan's Game.
>>25347476>Also, I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what exactly are the Others and their relation to the singers/CotF? I always assumed they were the agents of the Great Other, but it seems that Azor Ahai being trapped in Weirnet played a key role. Per Dany's visions in the House of the Undying Ones, it seems Azor Ahai was executed by the singers/CotF, then brought back by the Great Other, but I'm not clear on the details.Others are the CoTF/ native weirwood net hivemind that was exiled from the heart of winter by Azor Ahai. Perhaps the COTF were trying to sacrifice him to the weirwoodnet directly but being a powerful greenseer he went into the tree and took it over. The Great Other to me is both the Others and the Weirwoodnet itself. They were tree spirits at first and thus anti fire, being trees, and then become icy wraith and thus more anti fire. Mel and the lord of light see the Others as the great Other most likely. But maybe the Great other is another thing entirely like what ever cthulhu like evil Euron is gonna wake and get possessed by. Australia seems to have been IP banned for days now so had to verify my email to make this reply. Hope it answers your question anon
>>25349262Would i like to yes, would i also cringe at anything i write and get myself into a never ending circle of writing everything because i grow to hate it. Also yes.
>>25350043Do it, anon
>>25349817Good stuff, thanks. Australians get alot of hate on here, but it seems not all are like the meme.So basically, the Others are a fork in the Weirnet. That makes sense, and is also supported by Melisandre speculating that the Three-eyed Crow & Bran are the Great Other's champions that time she glimpsed them in the flames.
>>25349817>Australia seems to have been IP banned for days now so had to verify my email to make this reply. Hope it answers your question anonWorks on my machine
>>25351061Glad you liked it anon.>>25351745I hadn't posted in weeks and came back and can't post on any board without getting there 'IP range has been temporarily banned' changed my IP address and still the same problem, but im not banned when I try to fill out a ban lifting submission, so I don't know whats going on. Wasn't trolling or anything just suddenly have to verify my shit everytime now for no reason.Back to theory crafting. So in Elden Ring in every dungeon the boss room is at the roots of the Erdtree (pic related, which looks a lot like how Bloodravens cave is described), which span the whole continent. In these roots we see people being absorded back into the tree. Back in the good old days they were spiritually or maybe physically reborn. This idea is George bascially showing the high fantasy version of ideas he's only implied. Rather than being immortal through reincarnation via the tree, ASOIAF immortality has greenseers being wed to the trees (which are actually more fungal/ part fungal) Bloodravens cave has a bunch of Children of the forest (?) who gap like fish and are part of the tree. Now Godwyn the Golden is a Baelor stand in as a perfect literally golden prince who was besites with the dragons and created a dragon cult in the captial, like Baelor the literal dragon prince (who like all targs is part reptile). Like Baelor Godwyn is very fucking dead. Dead and buried into the roots of tree. Dead in soul but not body so his body has mutated and corrupted the roots and spread the curse of 'those who live in death'. Godwyn is like a greenseer or bloodraven wed to the trees. He cannot move, he's apart of the tree but also still affecting the world metaphysics through his new power. Undeath in Elden Ring, Bloodrave has time manipulation powers (which retroactively already occured in the past, when in the present he and Bran 'change' the past). The Age of Dusk ending is one of the endings where you choose to keep the Golden Order but reform it to not persecute the undead, the mending rune to do this is made by Fia sleeping with Godwyn. Now what does this mean for Greenseers wed to the trees? Age of dusk is one of the four 'not bad but not good endings' Frenzy flame is bad ending, Age of Stars is the good ending, one ends the settings the other breaks the status quo for a different better future.I think for Greenseers this means none of them will surive the story. All of them will die (Others invade the cave like in the show perhaps) and Bran will literally be the last Greenseer wed to the trees (but not become a part of them) Bran takes Azor Ahai out of the tree allowing the Others go back in but I don't think Bran will get much control of what happens in the status quo after the second Long night, like GOdwyn and Fia dont get control in the Age of Stars ending. Bran wont' be the king of Westeros like in the show (they'll be no feudalism anymore at the end imo) he'll be in the Gods Eye doing I'm not sure what.
Would Cersei have become a normal non-evil woman if Rhaegar fucked her cunny cunny like she always wanted?
Let's just kill Martin and be done with it
>>25352901No, she was always evil.
>>25353465But that prophecy was in a reality where she didn't marry Rhaegar. I'm asking about a hypothetical in which she did.
>>25352901>>25353504No. It seems that she was always very arogant and pretty ignorant. Didn't she bang Jaime as a young teen? Now I think about it, she did torture baby Tyrion, even as a child. So yeah, Gurm tries to tell us that this girl is rotten.
>>25353684Yeah she fooled around with Jaime but when meeting Rhaegar she thought he was way more handsome and fell in love.She was a bit of a bitch and there's no denying that, but if she actually got her dream husband and her dream of being the queen was fulfilled, I was wondering if her bad habits would've been mitigated somewhat.
>>25353701>a noble woman having her childish wish fulfilled>this somehow fixes her and erases her ingrained selfish tendenciesI think not. He might have kept herself exclusively for Rhaegar but not for any honest reasons but simply to project the "good, proper queen" appereances expected of her. She would have become just as bitter and vindictive as with Robert
>>25353935She was a good queen for Robert and she acted properly for a time before Robert's constant drunkenness, whoring and saying Lyanna's name in her bed broke her.
This timeline is pretty entertaining all things considered. You’re all very funny to me. Some of you are truly unhinged even.
Our favorite author really loves to make fun of fat characters now and then. >77I always think he is much older.
>>25353941>She was a good queen
>>25354424There is no greater misogynist in ASOIAF than Cersei Lannister
>>25353941>woman tier arguments
>>25352901She would have had an autistic meltdown when rhaegar says lyannas name during sex and then she’d spend the rest of her life wishing she married Robert
>>25354428The biggest misogynists I know are women.
>>25353701Didn't she killed her childhood friend and aborted her babies?
It's kind of crazy. Winds is going to be the biggest book release... Ever? At the very least in my lifetime. Never has a book had the sort of popularity and mainstream knowledge as asoiaf. Has a book ever been released with the full hype of millions upon millions of people. It's literally going to make the biggest headline on every news station on release or release date reveal. It's just cool to think about. A book having this sort of pull. Usually it's a movie only thing or a video game thing, or a major sports moment.
>>25354913god I can’t wait for all my theories to be proven true and I can feel validated and say I told you so to everyone
Winds is going to be announced on the 30th anniversary
>>25354913>>25354928>>25355372It's not going to release
>>25334892you should only read one pov at a timestart with Tyrion finish with Eddard
Winds of Winter - the most popular book that was never written
Why does George dedicate so much page space to rhaegars rubies, they must be really important
>>25355974Ulysses bloodstone, an ancient barbarian gets magical blood gems imbedded in his chest from a crashing meteor that houses a lovecraftian god, and it gives him powers to fight monsters and become the ultimate hero So rhaegar is channeling Bloodstone emporer azor ahai visually here
>>25355974Ze rubies are yuor ballzZe Stag iz a cuckoldRuby Ford - Rheagar cooming inside LyannaR+L=J confirmed
I think he's gone senile.
Let's say I'm very short on time but I want to know what game of thrones is all about.What individual book chapters would you recommend to me?
>>25352126I suspect if there's an 'Age of Stars' for asoiaf it'll somehow involve the return of magic and annihilating all god like entities. Or exiling them. Possibly even taking things from the other side - the spaceship pearl that was used will this time contain Bran back from his journey.
>>25356853That's not really how this works, there are a trillion different angles and perspectives it's a very varied and diverse series. It's not really an individual chapter thing as it is an accumulation of character development and arcs. Idk read a Victarion chapter or something he's dumb and fun.
>>25356853A dance with dragons, Daenerys chapter 10
>>25356853Prologue, A Game of Thrones
>>25356853ADWD chapter 6 - quentyn I
>>25356853Either read the first 8 chapters or watch the first episode of the show you fucking secondary and make up your mind.
>>25355389This time it’s actually coming
>>25356853Read the Dunk and Egg novellas. You can read each in an afternoon.
>>25357178The fat man’s mind is gone. Besides he was a lib shit anyway and kinships will control this ip
God I fucking hate Tower Niggers
For me it’s Sir Gideon Ofnir, the all knowing
[AMAZING NEWS] as of today, the wait for TWOW has now equaled the time it took to release all 5 other books - 5458 days
>>25357196I need help connecting this guy to Asoiaf lore, what’s his deal. I know George hides clues in Elden ring but I’m too dumb to figure it out
>>25357263>I know George hides clues in Elden ring but I’m too dumb to figure it outHe didn't
>>25357272Damn you’re even dumber than me
It's my sole belive that G. R. R. Martin has written both books but they are sitting on a dead hand release trigger meaning the moment he dies the entire manuscripts of TWOW and Dream of Spring will be Emailed to all his agents at once.
>>25357201Lmao GOT fans will keep their hopes up for another decade till he dies. The copium here never runs out
>>25354913The last Harry Potter maybe?
>make the velaryons black>Alyn and Addam are aged up because they're Corlys' sons instead of Laenor's, which makes no sense because that makes them ineligible to be dragonseeds with 0% targ blood and no Velaryon has ever ridden a dragon>cut nettles because she's now redundant>make rhaena tame sheepstealer in place of nettles since she no longer exists>rhaena loses control of sheepstealer at the gullet and causes jace's death so rhaenyra can have a reason other than racism to hate rhaenettles <--- you are here>jace doesn't rescue aegon III at the gullet, because aegon and viserys were aged down and are both safe>jace dies because of rhaenettles and because he was a meaniepants to his mother and show rhaenyra can do no wrong and men are le bad and victims of patriarchy too!But beware. The butterflies. George. DID!
Archmaester Fomas was right about everything
>dragon named sheepstealer>is only ridden by black dragonridersWhat did George mean by this?
>>25357831>>cut nettles because she's now redundantNo, they cut Nettles so #bossqueen doesn't have to answer to some nasty race and class problems as she treats the little upstart shitty.
>>25357843
>>25357843>>25357852>Winds is published>a 200 year old Sheepstealer returns>he's ridden by Brown Ben Plumm
The Doom of the Valyrian Freehold saw a peninsula and its people consumed by fire and smoke.An entire civilization, its inhabitants and their gods, their loves, grudges, guilts, and pain all drowned in a sea of ash and sorrow.None who dwelt there survived, nor did their histories. The Library of Tyria, the largest and most renowned repository of knowledge of its day, was destroyed. Books, scrolls, and tomes turned to cinder. But while the fate of memory seemed sealed, not all was lost.Elsewhere on the continent of Essos were dragonlords, spending time away from their homelands. Some were on patrols, and some to exact punishment upon anyone who dared deny the power of Valyria. Yet one other, whose name has come down to us, was away to take stock of the foliage, plants, and teal mosses known throughout the resplendent forests of Qohor.Jaehaelor Mataeryon, a freeborn landowner and gardener by trade and passion, was at work collecting samples when the earth shook and the sky turned red. As the days passed and news travelled, it became clear that Jaehaelor's home, family, and people had been destroyed.Not knowing if he were the last of the dragonriders, Jaehaelor packed his bags and flew to the southeastern most of the free cities, Valyria's first daughter in Volantis. It was there, if tales can be believed, where he spent the remainder of his life scratching everything he could remember of his gardens on sheets of parchment so long they rivaled the broad stone highways of his people.(Jaehaelor's dragon died in captivity not three years later. Unable or forbidden to ride her, who can truly say, her leathern wings are said to have shriveled after refusing sheep, goat, dog, and horse. Jaehalor himself did not long outlive his dragon, passing from this mortal coil at the age of five and fifty while traversing the Long Bridge. It was there he saw two masters exacting punishment against their slaves. Tearfully, the gardener flung himself between the victims and the whip, collapsing after being lashed for nigh on an hour. That is a tale for another time, however, and beyond our current purview.)Bound in twine and stored expertly within the Black Walls, Jaehaelor's writings were gifted to the Citadel on this, the fourth day of the fourth moon of 36 AC. It has now passed to me to cement his memories into the bold minds of those who pass through this, the greatest repository of knowledge in the known world.Fortunately for us, the majority of Jaehaelor's accounts detail his passion for plant, leaf, moss, and tree. Further is an exhaustive description of his glass orb greenhouse, which is said to have been built into the topless tower of the Matareyons, held in place by no less than thirty- three stone Sphinxes, with eyes of garnet.(continued)
(continued)Let us so begin with the base of all things soil. It must be emphasized that the volcanic soils of Old Valyria were much different than those found in Westeros, save for Dragonstone, that small island sitting at the mouth of Blackwater Bay. It is from this soil that our first plant springs: the silk grasses of Valyria. Blossoming and stretching their glossy fingers up, as if alive, these tendrils are written to have braided and folded themselves apart and together again like coils of rope. If Jaehaelor can be believed, these grasses also laid the foundation for almost every meal on the Valyrian Peninsula, as garnishment. Though it must be noted that while this variety of vegetation was enjoyed by dragonlords and their kin, it was forbidden to slaves.In a sad turn of events, Jaehaelor himself describes his own misfortune of having walked in on a bed slave, Narha, nibbling on this particular fruit of his precious soil. Forced to slit her wrists with his Valyrian steel blade, he notes having bottled her blood and using it to nourish his Ruby Ferns, which he then describes as having grown to extraordinary heights.Let us now turn to the fruits of Jaehaelor's gardens, most notable of which is described as a purple mango with crawling vines. In his writings, the fruit is described as so dense and yet so nourishing that it could fuel a soldier on long journeys. Available to nobles alone, it is written that only those pure of heart could ingest it.In formal trial or in familial disputes, the fruit was often said to be invoked as judgement. Jachaerlor's own mother, it pains me to note, ingested it and passed from this world after a bloody stool and terrible cramping in the gut. I would be remiss here to note, however, that there are known poisons that bring its victims to similar ends. Most notably the Tears of Lys. Yet as Jaehaelor mentions having no wife or female siblings, this notion can most certainly be discarded as poison is known to be a woman's weapon.Let us here turn to an examination of the White Tree of Flames. Known in the Freehold for the coppery sheen of its leaves, its pungent roots are said to have grown above ground, twisting around its own trunk like the walls of some great keep. According to his writings, and of course the unreliability of memory cannot be gainsaid, Jachaelor claims only one such tree existed, and that in his own orb of glass, high atop a tower overlooking a city distorted through ripples of heat.If so, and if Jaehaelor's claims are true, what might that mean? Where did this tree come from? From whence came its seed? Could it be that the ancient gods of Valyria were of some distant relation to the children of the forest? There is no mention of a face carved into its bark, but Jaehaelor does describe it with a certain reverence, as if a living wood, as powerful as fire.(continued)
(continued)Such a notion I will leave for the time being and turn instead to the most peculiar of Jaehaelor's obsessions—a grunting shrub that is described as having the power to uproot itself and walk across the gardens, but only at nightfall. Our source himself for near a year thought himself mad, writing: I must surely start taking note of where his grunts start and stop, for twice now I've arisen to find this plant growing from the ceiling and then the floor.I will leave this curious mystery for the nonce and reflect on the sorceries of Old Valyria. Blood and fire are the words come down to us, and while Jaehaelor attributes the queer events in his gardens to magic, how much of that can be believed is a question I, as an honest historian, cannot hope to answer. For the nonce let us say that our Gardener of Mataryon had a grumbling shrub that he periodically misplaced.Let us finally turn our gaze to the jeweled mosses of Valyria. Twinkling, like beacons guiding ships to harbor, the spores of these flowerless green plants are described as having erupted from stalked capsules, and would cover the glass windows of the gardens if not pruned once every moon. Along with its impressive growth came a scent Jaehaelor describes as the akin to fruit of Meraxes's Scepter. Though known to us as the she-dragon of the late Queen Rhaenys, Meraxes was named after one of the many Old Gods of Valyria. That this god had a scent is new to us, however, and Jaehalor gives us no other clue than to say: the stench is so sour it inflames the stinging hairs of my nettles.
>>25357868>>25357869>>25357871wat
>>25357196>>25357263He's a bloodraven stand in. Guiding Bran and setting up events at first but ulitmately rejects the bigger picture. Ofnir rejects the idea of Marika then the Tarnished beating the god Elden Beast, and did horrible horrible things like massacring the village of the Albinaurics.So to does Bloodraven kill lots of innocent people (they kinda all deserved it imo, fuck Blackfyre shits) and will probably reject the idea of destorying the weirwoodnet like this idea.>>25356862An end of the 'god' beings will include weirwood hivemindMaybe I dunno
>>25355389>>25357178it's time to give it up, anon. He isn't going to release the damn book, much less dream of spring>>25357852god they really made it a fucking ugly thing with that underbite.
>>25357871The white tree of flame is obviously some variant of weirwood. The no face carving plus the roots coming up out of the ground and coiling around the trunk of the tree evokes the serpentine, I think flame trees are made when a firewyrm is used as the sacrifice, and the grey kings hall was made out of one (the tree is described as living wood as strong as fire, and the grey king used naggas living fire for power) nagga was the firewyrm greenseer of ygg the tree of flame that grey king cut down
>>25357263A scheming spymaster with a thousand ears and one of the names of Odin who seeks to become lord of the magic tree? Definitely Evokes odinesque greenseer bloodraven and his thousand eyes as >>25357922anon says, but I say he is a stand in for the secret proto bloodraven character of the age of heroes more than the modern bloodravenOfnir is the leader of the round table hold, an Arthurian reference. In Asoiaf there was a secret Arthurian age, the Hightower/dayne/proto ironborn pre Andal knightly era in Westeros with their star table hold (becomes starfish table from drowned god cultural influence over time) at battle isle; the bustling hub where adventurers from all over the world mingle, scholars magicians and craftsmen work their craft, and traders resupply and exchange goods with cotf, all under the protection of this knightly order. This is where the legends of knights before the Andal invasion come from. Ofnir is a stand in for the original Hightower lord, a lorekeeper, seeker of knowledge, schemer, spymaster, keeper of order. Also, Ofnir adopts the daughter of horah loux (the azor ahai stand in of Elden ring; as discussed a couple threads back) and raises her as his own. This might be hinting that Hightowers have azor ahai blood through the female line. By the end of the game, Ofnirs quest for knowledge changes him and His goal shifts from wanting to become Elden Lord out of ambition to preventing anyone from becoming Elden lord, wanting instead for the Tarnished to struggle eternally fighting each other rather than usurping the throne, and thus protecting the order and status quo of the erdtree. We can extrapolate this to the Hightowers and the cotf weirnet, where they become the heads of knowledge and religion to control people to prevent them from using magic to fuck with the order of things; they become the human propaganda arm of the cotf agenda, like bloodraven is now in a more direct and magical sense. George always knew the three eyed crow was a targ greenseer but he didn’t know it would be bloodraven. That’s because he was originally going to be a half Hightower to parallel the original ancient character. He just grew to like Blackwoods more, but he did a cameo reference of the odinesque Hightower with aemond one eye
>>25357869I know it’s non-canon/semi-canon (written by George’s assistant), but, perhaps the tree of flames is a remnant of a time when the Valyrians were simple herders and shepherds and pagans, or nature worshipers. The Valyrian peninsula likely had fertile soil and robust natural resources even before the “nameless people from Asshai” visited them. Perhaps they ditched the native trees and their older beliefs for a new kind of magic since. Glass candles might even be more efficient than the weirwoods, seemingly able to emulate their abilities.>>25358530Nagga’s bones aren’t black it’s likely not a true fire-infused firewyrm. Or maybe the magic got sucked out of its bones? I’m still unsure as to whether or not those parasites inside Aerea were actual firewyrms or some chimeric abomination that is perhaps related to them. I’ve long speculated that wyrms might be sapient creatures that use humans as hosts, and are like the xenomorphs from Alien are chimeric by default, and take on the biological qualities of their hosts. This would explain how the blood mages of Valyria could splice creatures so well. Maybe the ancient Valyrians sacrificed their own ancestors using wyrms (or maybe the nameless people from Asshai brutally abused the Valyrians) to start their draconic bloodlines. Maybe the precursors used Valyrians as hosts and the Valyrians rebelled and turned the tables on them. The rapists became the raped. Perhaps this is why the wyrms “have no love for men”.
>>25358704>In Asoiaf there was a secret Arthurian age, the Hightower/dayne/proto ironborn pre Andal knightly era in Westeros with their star table hold (becomes starfish table from drowned god cultural influence over time) at battle isle; the bustling hub where adventurers from all over the world mingle, scholars magicians and craftsmen work their craft, and traders resupply and exchange goods with cotf, all under the protection of this knightly order. This is where the legends of knights before the Andal invasion come from. Retarded.
>>25358738>Nagga’s bones aren’t blackNagas bones could just be white weirwood, with some residual fire magic from the firewyrm, that could explain it
The Daynes and the Hightowers are descended from the sex slaves of the ‘Deep Ones’ lol. The pre-Valyrians weren’t human but they surely loved to dick humans.
>>25358786It was probably just a big ass water dragon - wyrms bred with whales or sea serpents or something - similar to how Valyrians bred aerial dragons by breeding wyrms with wyverns. I really think there was a lot of genetic fuckery going on in the past. Humans were taller, bigger, once. The ‘tall men’ and the ‘mazemakers’. Lengii are likely a surviving variant of the mazemakers. The Lengii stopped making mazes but they survived until present day. Their island is said to be filled with underground mazes just like Lorath. It’s also next to Asshai.
Did the deep ones have a civil war or change of heart? The legend of the grey king sort of points to it. Why would a mermaid and the drowned god ally with a human against a sea dragon and whatever culture built the seastone chair?Do the Ironborn just not at all think it’s weird that they use the chair their legendary ancestor cast aside? It’s implied the grey king didn’t like whoever brought the seastone chair. I feel like they might be worshiping something that originally hated them.
>>25358842It’s hilariously ironic. The Ironborn take immense pride in their "Old Way" and identity, and yet, the literal seat of their heritage and national power belonged to a race or civilization that predated them entirely, and was apparently a part of the very same force that their ancestor fought so hard against.
The ‘old way’ of the Ironborn evokes the same rapey energy of the ‘deep ones’.RAPE AND KILL AND BREEDRAPE AND KILL AND BREEDRAPE AND KILL AND BREED
For some reason Redditors think the people who built Asshai were children of the forest/shadow.
>>25358859it also evokes the Dothraki raiders of the grass sea. The Proto Dothraki orc horde conquered Essos before the long night and were in the process of conquering Westeros before it all went to shit. The survivors became ironborn, trading horses of flesh for horses of wood
>>25358934Back when the grass sea was an actual sea there were the ‘fisher queens’. Fish Queens. Coincidence? I think not. Deep Ones inland. Fresh water Deep Ones?
>>25358934They were said to be wise and benevolent. They were the nicer deep ones. To contrast the majority being conquerors and rapists. Men went to them for counsel instead of running from them.
>>25358956Meant for >>25358953
Is Essos just a perpetual grave of civilizations? It’s bleaker and more deserted and far narrower than Eurasia which it is based upon. The Dothraki were 100x worse than the Mongols it seems.
>>25358842Deep one civil war confirmed >>25358956
>>25358914I could see it if lizard men cotf and fish people are all cousins and descendants of the same progenitor race, each adapting to survive different biomes
I’ve been to the past. The fisher queens were huge overweight toad creatures that just sat on pillows in their strange floating huts and did magic and had a lot of smart things to say. One even adopted a human (Huzhor Amai) and it was he who started Sarnor.
>>25358988I also like to think that the children take on the qualities of their natural surroundings. It’s a cool idea. Aquatic ones, maybe? Even sandy desert ones. For all we know there could have been an incredible variety of cotf back in the primeval past. They also existed in Essos in some form. But I also like to think there might also be completely different races altogether, like the giants, or, yes, fish people. The deep ones seem more abhorrent and aberrant compared to the gentler and nobler cotf; but as the world book implies, the cotf are not always so nice and in fact could likely be quite cruel. I imagine they resorted to truly drastic and bloody means in their desperation to beat back men. Sacrifice. Maybe there was a malicious culture of them in the far east? That actually made cities and built things to last? Sometimes I wonder why the precursors to the Valyrians didn’t decorate or twist their fused stone constructions into more sophisticated forms. They seem a lot simpler and more basic. Blocky. Maybe this is similar to how the children of the forest don’t really… do much…. Or maybe they never felt the need for anything more. The children of the forest didn’t need anything more than what they already had, too.
>>25358990Based frog niggas RIP
Glass candles are said to be able to do what the greenseers do, but, do different colors do different things? Does the green glass candle mentioned at the Citadel look into the past? Did Valyrian wizards step into glass orbs (pic related) to see the past and/or future in real time like on a glass screen?
>>25359017Back in old Valyria you weren’t seen as a true wizard unless you had your own orb to live / ponder in
>>25359017I wonder how much it costed (in Valyrian terms) to cap your tower with a big ass observatory orb.
House OrbtaerysDragonlords of PonderingProcrastinating Dragons They also foresaw the Doom (but didn’t care enough to get off their seats)
>>25359036I also call total bullshit that the Targs were the only ones who saw the Doom coming. There’s a deep and dark conspiracy afoot. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were (originally) in league with the Faceless. The Faceless and the Targs are both implicit and that’s why they hate each other.
>>25359017The orbs have weirwoods in them >>25357869So yes in a sense
>>25358988>>25359004 the cotf are based on the sithi, or “children of the witchwood” in memory sorrow and thorn by tad williams, as confirmed by George. They split off into different clans like the children of the cloud, children of the dawn, and even had an aquatic slave race called the children of the ocean. They’re original home “the garden” was destroyed and they fled in exile across the sea to the “shadow garden” where they would eventually be wiped out by humans
>>25359144That orb was a literal greenhouse anon. For all we know there were orgy orbs for sex parties.
>>25359165>the cotf are based on the sithi, or “children of the witchwood” in memory sorrow and thorn by tad williams, as confirmed by GeorgeHe also said he made them to spite the elves anon.
>>25359165So I think the cotf were bad boys and the squishers were just their goons who they learned slavery and eugenics from and then ran amok after men surpassed children
>>25359165Aren’t the Valyrians based on a race from one of his science fiction books? He seems to draw inspiration from his prior books but also hates when this is pointed out, too.
>>25338121>Myrwould be great if not for the fucking Dothrakiimagine having your taxes go to pay off fucking steppe niggers>>25343009>Braavostoo cold bro
>>25359172I really, really, really don’t think that the children of the forest would construct a place like Asshai, or Yeen, or anything unsightly like what Daenerys saw; that one statue from the Shadowlands.It doesn’t really add up to what we know about the children of the forest. This would be a completely warped and totally different culture of them. They’re also a small little people, and yet their cities are notably massive. You could argue they used animals and beasts to life and move around blocks, and later fuse stone, but this is also off. But it’s also possible that the children of the forest became hippies and embraced nature after something awful happened in the past, as a form of atonement. Doubt it.
>>25345842never happenedit's all just fanboys throwing shit at each other
>>25359165>>25359171>>25359172>>25359176The fish folk that rape and breed with humans are based on Lovecraft. The tree people who got displaced by humans are based on Williams. They are two completely different nods to two completely different authors.
If humans can breed with the children of the forest then this implies all the “non human” races are in some way related to one another, and as such, related to humans. There are indeed surviving Neanderthals (the Ibbenese) and other “missing links” like the ‘Brindled Men’ in this world. The implications of the genetic splicing of the Valyrians is also something to look more into, so too.
Me thinks Asshai be too big for the CotF.Unless they liked things oversized? You would think that the “squirrel people” would be more at home in tight little nooks and crannies, and tunnels.
Why do idiots assume that Asshai was a capital of anything? Why not Stygai? For all we know Asshai is pathetically small compared to whatever the hell is further up the Ash river. For all we know Asshai was just a port city. Not the heart of it all.
Children of the forest have serpent eyes. People just assume they’re cat eyes
>>25359183>it doesn’t really add up to what we know about the children of the forest. This would be a completely warped and totally different culture of themUnless the cotf we encounter are the odd ones out; we wiped out all their warriors and all that’s left are those who didn’t they could to survive; hide and work with humans
>>25359213Who did what they could to survive*
>>25359222Fuckin meant for >>25359218jeez
>>25359192But it’s possible that George takes different influences and grafts them together to make a new unified cohesive thing
>>25359233George is godrick the grafted from Elden ring. To mimic the power of the fantasy writer demigods that came before him he takes bits and pieces from the worlds of legendary writers and grafts them together for own worldbuilding
The way George wrote the children of the forest in Bran’s chapters makes it seem like they’re just too good and too nice. That men just suck. Children of the forest are so humble they are perfectly fine becoming extinct. Bran then assumes humans would rage at the end in comparison.I don’t think there are bad children of the forest just desperate ones. And even in their desperation there’s clear “okay our time is over”. Men would refuse to ever admit that their time is over.
Yeen and Asshai both have an anti life and anti growth effect. There are no children in Asshai. A child of the forest would want to leave Asshai immediately.
>>25359211Because the stories tell us that Asshai is vast but we have no information about the size of StygaiBased on the description of Stygai and its surroundings, it seems more like a city of the Children of the Forest
>>25359233Including the possibility that the deep ones are a totally separate and maybe even older race than the children of the forest. I say this because Lovecraft is all about the deep primeval. Human life in Lovecraft might even be a mistake or a consequence or byproduct of Shoggoths.
>>25359255The stories only tell us of Asshai because no one dares to travel up the Ash. It’s the only real location in the Shadow that you can travel to with any assurance of safety (and even then, a city of dabbling mages is probably not the safest city). Not even Shadowbinders. >Based on the description of Stygai and its surroundings, it seems more like a city of the Children of the ForestI’m just not seeing it. Sorry. The children aren’t city builders. Not those kinds of cities anyway. I don’t doubt that they had heavy establishments in the deep past.
>>25359248There are probably bad cotf but they’re more like bad elves. Bad in a different way. Faerie like way.
>>25359255That doesn’t point to it being a capital. That just points to it being a massive city. The size of a city doesn’t necessarily make it the capital of anything, either. Some capitals aren’t the biggest.
Children of the Shadow does have a nice ring to it thobeit
>>25359266Stygai >It's plunged into darkness>There is a river with blind fish >Is call a "corpse city" >Shadowbinder, who wears masks to hide their faces from the gods, are afraid of itIn the last book we've seen that>The Children lives in cave, in darkness, they can see in the dark>A river flow in the cave with blind fish in it>Lot of corpses >Bran calls Bloodraven the “lord corpse.” When Melisandre saw them in the fire, she was frightened because Bran and Bloodraven were staring back at her, she thought they were gods>>25359273True
so these are all the RL parallels, right?>North of the WallHighlands>NorthLowlands/Northern England>ReachFrance/Yorkshire>IronbornNorsemen in Scotland>EyrieSwitzerland>DorneIberia>BraavosVenice>Slaver's BayGulf Arabs>Summer IslandsAfricans>ValyriaAtlanteans/Ancient Greeks>LazareenLevantines>DothrakiTurkic Hordes>Yi-TiChina>Leng Japanany others?
>>25359321The Boash’i aren’t children of the forest anon. Blindness is a key to esoteric and magical enlightenment in this world. It’s not exclusive or unique to the children of the forest. In fact, Valyrians could do what the greenseers did with their glass candles. Magic takes different shape but has the same/similar outcomes.
>>25359321Fish that live in caves tend to be blind anon. None of that is really pointing to there being Children in the Shadow. Maybe, though. You never know. The trees of the warlocks have similarities to Weirwoods.
>>25359321I assumed Stygai was a corpse of a city, not necessarily filled with corpses. Like a blasted ruin.
>>25359364So the people in the Shadows should be blind or could see in the dark, like the ChildrenThere is also mentions of dragons in the caves of the Vale of ShadowIn the last book, Bran see "the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling", in the same book, Daenerys sees Viserion "clinging to the ceiling of the pit like a huge white bat">>25359354>Valyrians could do what the greenseers did with their glass candlesAnd strangely enough the ancient texts of Asshai speak of an ancient, vanished people who came from the Shadow and taught their arts to the Valyrians...The Valyrians had candle made of obsidian that gave them the abilities to see event at long distance, contact people in their dreams, just like the Children' greenseers and they craft obsidian The Valyrians could bond with dragons and the Children can bond with animalsThe Valyrians made a steel with blood and fire magic, the Children helped the Last Hero making a steel with blood and fire magic
>>25359390The Shadow isn’t pitch black anon. Just very, very dark. No sun. The river’s depths probably is, though. Fish need to be able to get food without sight. They might be retarded fish though.
>>25359390All of that tells me a people of the Shadow left knowledge to the Valyrians. Not that they were Children of the Forest/Shadow. Everything points to it being an aquatic and seafaring race. Not one based inland or in the woods. The world book even makes mention of how odd it is that they didn’t leave behind more evidence of their existence behind. It’s obviously pointing to them being from the sea. All black oily/fused stone is around the coast, or former coasts, like the Five Forts, or Yeen, which is situated around a marshy river covered place. I really don’t think that the children of the forest would have carved the seastone chair. Or the toad statue. I don’t think the children of the forest would have put the fear of the sea into the thousand islanders. I don’t think the children of the forest are what decimated the LorathiEverything points to it benign something completely different from them.
>>25356853i'd just read all of the books. they might seem massive (which they are, all in all combined) but they are an easy read. it's not like reading 2k pages of melville
>>25359390>The Valyrians had candle made of obsidian that gave them the abilities to see event at long distance, contact people in their dreams, just like the Children' greenseers and they craft obsidian They may have discovered it on their own since it’s not sourced to a tree. Same as how the Rhoynar likely developed their own form of elemental divination apart from fire magics. I would refrain from assuming all magic everywhere is from the Children. They’re clearly limited to their own shape. They’re a religious and spiritual species that appears to interpret nature and magic through a pagan lens. Not a thoroughly understood lens.
>>25359405Everything points to it being* something completely different
>>25359390There’s tons of magical overlap but that doesn’t mean it’s all sourced to a specific race anon. Obsidian is magical, period, in this world. It’s a synthesis of ice and fire. Frozen fire.
I hope George has been secretly working on another world building book about all this ancient shit. I find it more interesting than the Asoiaf plot at this point
Magic/nature is alive/animistic and this is why there’s tons of shared parallels and themes. A lot of magic systems descend from animism/shamanism irl. Sacrificial blood magic is essentially sending back lifeforce into the world. Biological life is a more raw emergence of this ever present life force, taking the form of consciousness and feeling. Even sacrificing a rock or a tree or a dog might do something if there is enough emotional investment into it. Would the loss of a favorite river be a sacrifice?Then again. Magic might just be a huge asshole. There’s no real reason why pain and suffering should outweigh any other feeling or emotion. Perhaps humans feel more negatives than positives. The children of the forest probably saw or recognized this very early. They see life in all aspects of nature. The rocks and the streams are alive.
My wife divorced me. Took the kids. I am in shambles. The life we built together. All gone. Slain. Butchered on her sacrificial altar, metaphorically speaking. Oh god it hurts. Why Amanda why. Can I perform a magic ritual now?
Is Valyria retarded?You’d think the people who mastered the sick twisted art of sacrificial sorcery would know that killing tens of thousands of Rhoynar was just adding fuel to their prince’s big ass desperate spell that covered the Rhoyne in fog/disease. Woooow….
Would burning or chopping down a weirwood count as a sacrifice? There’s a lot in there….
>>25359444It’d be like burning down a library with all the librarians still inside
>>25359405>All of that tells me a people of the Shadow left knowledge to the Valyrians. Not that they were Children of the Forest/Shadow. Thanks captain obvious, that's why I've listed all the clues that point to the Children of the Forest The Deep Ones aren't as important as the Children, they aren't mentioned as much as them, they aren't even characters and it’s good to remember that the latest book from A Song of Ice and Fire reveals the true name of the Children of the Forest: those who sing the song of the earth, the Singers >>25359410Not all magic but they are probably the best magic users, they are those who sing the song of the earth and it is said in the Asshai legend that an ancient people did taught their arts to the Valyrians The Singer can teach some stuff to people like:>The children of the forest could speak with ravens and could make them repeat their words. According to Barth, this higher mystery was taught to the First Men by the children so that ravens could spread messages at a great distance.
>>25359494>The Deep Ones aren't as important as the ChildrenThey aren’t important at all. Everything in the world book is just flavour/fluff, as well as nods to finer fictions and writers, including the parts you assume are pointing to the children of the forest being in the Shadow (which I’m still not seeing mind you). I really don’t think the oily black stone toads (Toad isle) and octopuses (the seastone chair) are something the children would fashion (although I don’t discount the idea of the children being in Essos in the deep past). I really don’t think the children are what put the fear of the sea into the thousand islanders.>Not all magic but they are probably the best magic usersLol. They lost to a bunch of dragonless primitives. Their greenseers need to attach themselves to their trees while the Valyrians just needed to stare into their candles. The greenseers are said to be submissive to the gods by Leaf (to the point where they’re sickly and lead short lives unless they bond to a tree), while the dragonlords saw themselves as above the gods. Valyria would have obliterated the children of the forest. They controlled their dragons with sorcery as well as whips. That they could purpose sorcery - a cruel and fickle and capricious force on its own - infrastructurally for so long (apparently thousands of years) and breed and dominate creatures so deeply associated and in-tune with magic itself, speaks volumes. The Doom shook global magic to its core (preventing or just lowering its use entirely in the west) in a way that has not been seen before (as far as we know) or since. >the latest book from A Song of Ice and Fire reveals the true name of the Children of the Forest: those who sing the song of the earth, the Singers Yes. Bards and singers even in human culture are counted as storytellers. Songs are tales. This aligns with the name of the series itself: A Song of Ice and Fire. This is likely alluding to the ending having Bran sitting on the throne as a sort of storytelling recorder-king, or seer-king, likely into old age. The children of the forest are little historians/storytellers. >The children of the forest could speak with ravens and could make them repeat their words. According to Barth, this higher mystery was taught to the First Men by the children so that ravens could spread messages at a great distance.I always found it ironic that while the maesters dislike magic (‘the higher mysteries’) they’re still technically making use of the remnant of what could be considered a form of magic. The latest books mention that the remnants of the children of the forest went into the crows and ravens. This might be why they’re a bit more intelligent or efficient compared to real life corvids. Maybe the children of the forest went into other things as well…
>>25359551>They aren’t important at all.They are mentioned in all the books and we met some of them in the last book. They are most likely the ones who created the Others and they play an important role in ending the Long Night, that's a pretty big deal>I really don’t think the oily black stone toads (Toad isle) and octopuses (the seastone chair) are something the children would fashion I really don’t think the children are what put the fear of the sea into the thousand islanders.Me neither because it's not related to Stygai nor the SingersWho cares about the fish people? The Others are coming>They lost to a bunch of dragonless primitivesYeah because they're neither men, nor warriors, nor conquerors that's why the people who taught their arts to the Valyrians can't be men, because if they were, they would have keep the dragons for themselves >The children of the forest are little historians/storytellers. Their language, as well as their magic, are referred to by the terms “song” and “singing.”>arguing that it was not the singing of greenseers that parted Westeros from Essos >Even if we accept that the old gods broke the Arm of Dorne with the Hammer of the Waters, as the legends claim, the greenseers sang their song too late.Martin said that the “ice” in the title referred to the Others and the “fire” to Daenerys and her dragonsThe Singers being connected to the Others, their “song of ice” and to the Dragonlords, their “song of fire” makes sense>Yet no matter the truths of their arts, the children were led by their greenseers, and there is no doubt that they could once be found from the Lands of Always Winter to the shores of the Summer Sea
I don’t think George settled on any of this and our guess is as good as his. If he wanted to garden something out of it though the building blocks are all there
>>25359459This makes me realize we’re supposed to view the Hightower as a non magical, mundane version of a Weirwood. The Hightowers became the “greenseers” of the age of man.
>>25359650You would be right if you said this 10 years ago. He’s been busy writing the bloodstone compendium though, a 3 volume lore series rivaling the silmarillion in depth and complexity
>>25359551I find it fascinating that Dragons are so intrinsically linked to the hidden moon's magic. It raises a lot of questions Like did the Doom severed the connection between the world and the moon thus leading to dragons going out of existence or was it the other way around. why is it that the connection could be meanded now of all times.
>>25359833fuck off with the schizobabble
Please help, my dear nephew has developed autism after being raised by wolves for the latter half of his life, how many drownings are required to restore him to a manner befitting the Seastone Chair?
>>25357319someone should see to it, you say?
I'm reading Gene Wolfe right now and this Martin guy stole everything from him
Moar schizobabble
>Taena rolled onto her side, her olive skin shining in the candlelight. Her breasts were larger than the queen’s and tipped with huge nipples, black as horn. She is younger than I am. Her breasts have not begun to sag. Cersei wondered what it would feel like to kiss another woman. Not lightly on the cheek, as was common courtesy amongst ladies of high birth, but full upon the lips. Taena’s lips were very full. She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman on her back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.
>>25359589>Martin said that the “ice” in the title referred to the Others and the “fire” to Daenerys and her dragonsImagine naming your story after its most irrelevant parts.
>>25358704>George always knew the three eyed crow was a targ greenseer but he didn’t know it would be bloodraven. That’s because he was originally going to be a half Hightower to parallel the original ancient character. He just grew to like Blackwoods more, but he did a cameo reference of the odinesque Hightower with aemond one eyeThis blows my mind anon. Reading the Dance it really does feel like Aemond was destined for greater things but the civil war ended those strings of fate. He is the only Targ named Aemond after all, and not Aemon (which will be Jons name, Since Rhagar already had an Aegon). Him almost being the bloodraven three eyed crow makes so much sense. I also beleive that Daemon survived the fall into the gods eye moat, crawled to the shore of the Isle of Faces itself and then taken by the Green men. Speaking of the Isle of Faces its so strange that no one has fucking gone there or wanted to. Harrenhal is right next door and tons of characters go there. No king or queen travels there, there's no Measters talking about it. It gets named dropped in GoT and Storm of Swords and then all mention of it ceases excpet in the world book. Its very strange
>>25360513>"Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people.">Bran was almost certain he had never heard this story. "Did he have green dreams like Jojen?">"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear.">"I wish I could," Bran said plaintively. "When does he meet the tree knight?">Meera made a face at him. "Sooner if a certain prince would be quiet.">"I was just asking.">"The lad knew the magics of the crannogs," she continued, "but he wanted more. Our people seldom travel far from home you know. We're a small folk, and our ways seem queer to some, so the big people do not always treat us kingly. But this lad was bolder than most, and one day when he had grown to manhood he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces.">"No one visits the Isle of Faces." objecxted Bran. "That's where the green men live.">"It was the green men he meant to find. So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork.">Bran closed his eyes to try and see the man in his little skin boat. In his head, the crannogman looked like Jojen, only older and stronger, and dressed like Meera.>"He passed beneath the Twins by night so the Freys would not attack him, and when he reached the Trident he climbed from the river and put his boat on his head and began to walk. It took him many a day, but finally he reached the Gods Eye, threw his boat in the lake, and paddled out to the Isle of Faces.">"Did he meet the green men?">"Yes," said Meera, "But that's another story, and not for me to tell. My prince asked for knights.">"Green men are good too.">"They are," she agreed, but said no more about them. "All that winter the crannogman stayed on the isle, but when spring broke he heard the wide world calling and knew the time had come to leave. His skin boat was just where he'd left it, so he said his farewells and paddled off toward shore.
Wtf I love Isra- I mean Oldtown now!
>>25360573It sucks that we’ll be getting our first look at the green men and the isle of faces in the house of dragon show. Curious if George revealed something the show will spoil
>>25360665Or they’re doing something really stupid that isn’t in line with George’s vision and that’s one of the reasons he’s mad at the show
>>25360513>>25358704There’s also a “bryndon hightower” and that name might also be a hint
>>25360655>SignatureLookOfSuperiority.jpg
>>25359589>They are mentioned in all the books and we met some of them in the last bookI was referring to the Deep Ones. They likely aren’t vital to the story. The origins of Valyria and what happened in Asshai likely aren’t as pivotal at whatever is happening in Westeros. >Me neither because it's not related to Stygai nor the SingersThe toad idol, Yeen, the seastone chair, the foundations of the Hightower, Asshai, etc, are all connected. More than one maester assumes whoever has built the foundations of the Hightower likely had a connection to whoever built the mazes at Lorath and whoever left the seastone chair. People are hair splitting when they assume the fused stone has nothing to do with the greasy/oily stone. >Who cares about the fish peopleI agree. The origins of Valyria are likely just fluff at this point. George likes to put seeds into the ground before he does anything / sees how they grow. He said he’d need another fifty years to write what he has in mind for Valyria. So never ever. >Yeah because they're neither men, nor warriors, nor conquerors that's why the people who taught their arts to the Valyrians can't be men, because if they were, they would have keep the dragons for themselves The children of the forest HAD warriors. It’s mentioned. The children as a whole were just small and had fewer numbers in comparison to men. Long lived, but they couldn’t breed nearly fast enough. Leaf mentions this as well. >Their language, as well as their magic, are referred to by the terms “song” and “singing.”Yes it is. This is why they’re called Singers. They’re evoking nature as well. It is implied their language is literally the sounds heard in nature. Similar to how the language of the Others sounds like ice cracking. Melisandre also uses sound in her magic, and her voice twists and warps and no one hears the same thing. Bran the Builder was said to have learnt how to speak like they do. Like nature. It could just be a legend, but if individuals like Melisandre are anything to go by… (I know she isn’t speaking like nature, but clearly sound/speech is funky when it comes to magic, even when humans use it; although Melisandre is apparently one of the more capable magicians, as well as hundreds of years old, apparently—her appearance is obviously magical, a glamor of some kind, or she’s so in tune with her faith she takes on its image, idk; other red priests like Moqorro might also be this; his colors and theme are a sort of flip in contrast compared to her’s; a black flame to her red shadow; in fact he might just be Marwyn in disguise, maybe, idk)>Martin said that the “ice” in the title referred to the Others and the “fire” to Daenerys and her dragonsThis was confirmed with George letting HotD reveal Aegon’s prophecy. The Song of Ice and Fire was Aegon’s prophecy. It’s likely also alluding to the Singers being involved, if Bran is a part of it. He will be the recorder. Probably.
The God’s Eye should be a rather large island. I doubt you’d be able to find the horned men there if you simply landed.
The green/horned men might also be sheltering surviving children of the forest so I doubt they’d want to be found.
>>25360683The mazemakers are simply a nine princes in amber reference, it’s a totally seperate reference from the black stone monuments. You say that it’s all connected and should be considered all the same stone, and I get the urge because it simplifies and streamlines things but greasy stone is different from smooth fused stone. If the fused stone was greasy it would be described as greasy, but it’s not, so George is describing two different black stones and speculating on the different isn’t splitting hairs. It seems the greasy stone is the ancient lovecraft stuff, scary ancient pre man races. The fused black stone is connected to dragon fire
>>25360692It’s clear George envisioned some nameless ancient maritime race that went around the coasts of the world raping and pillaging people. This is based on history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_PeoplesYou also have legends of sages from the sea, or fish men, teaching humans before departing from the annalshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApkalluA lot of pseudo archaeologists think some sort of tragedy happened in the past and the survivors went around the world teaching and assimilating before vanishing. You have similarities send in Africa as well as South America.
>>25360692Anon dragons are said to come from Asshai which is where the greasy stone city is at. I wouldn’t be surprised if Asshai is made of fused stone too.
>>25360702>A lot of pseudo archaeologists think some sort of tragedy happened in the past and the survivors went around the world teaching and assimilating before vanishingMakes sense. Garth Greenhand and the Grey King both were said to have been teachers.
>>25360702>sendseen*
>>25360692>It seems the greasy stone is the ancient lovecraft stuff, scary ancient pre man races. The fused black stone is connected to dragon fireThe original dragons were bred out of the sea, not land. This is what I get from it. There are volcanic vents and entire volcanoes at the bottom of the ocean. Nagga was said to have fire.
“It’s always summer under the sea”
If wyrms are parasites that take on the qualities of their hosts, like they did with Aerea, and wyverns are just surviving dinosaurs, does this imply that the blood mages of Valyria parasitized wyverns with wyrms to make dragons? Is the symbiotic bond of rider and dragon a leftover aspect of dormant parasitism? Is that why dragons only bond with one person, or one host?
>>25360777>digits Must be true
>>25360655In my head hightowers have pale hair >gerold hightower is known as the white bull>margaery's hightower mom has silver hair>jaehaerys mistook alicent for saera
>>25360818Not just in your head, it’s canon. They got that nephilim blood
>>25360818also>Daenerys reminds Jorah of his Hightower wife
>>25334690It makes no sense to me that the Seven Kingdoms didn't disintegrate back into actual independent kingdoms the moment the last dragon died, or at the very least after Robert's Rebellion. If the Targs were truly so hated they wouldn't be able to keep such large and culturally distinct areas like the North and Dorne by strength of human arms alone, and Robert had no legitimacy to keep the system going.
>>25361502It was in the interest of major lords to keep the mummers' farce playing. The Iron Throne is good for business and Hands and Kingmakers are far more powerful than any petty king
>>25360777If it's parasitism, what dragon gets out of this?
if my mum looked like this i'd be laying pipe all day long too
>>25361502Human nature leads to ever larger polities.
Winds never ever btw. Not even D+E 4 will come out.
>>25361502Why would dorne care about the lizard nukes being gone? They were never subjugated by them. They married into the seven kingdoms and they've been getting a steady stream of royal marriages since (Myriah Martell, Dyanna Dayne, Elia Martell).
>>25361697>fucking and breeding with aunt, sister, cousin, uncle, nephew, nieceAww, you're so sweet!>kissing mom who was stroking your face and leaning in just a couple inches from your faceHello, human resources?!
>>25361502Dragons die off several generations after Aegon's conquest. By that time all that everyone in Westeros knew was unified Seven Kingdoms ruled by one king. It was the norm to them it was the only regime they grew under. They won't revert to the system of petty kings just because their great great grandparents they never met lived like that.
>Gaygone's Coomquest
Would you rather your mom/dad name you Gaemon or Aenys?
My dad.
>>25362342mom
>>25362142>>25361697Cersei might fuck Joffrey if given the chance.
>>25362593Well yeah, she is a Targaryen.
Aenys is a really really bad name
>>25334859Read the subtitles for season 1-4. Don't consume any other piece of GoT media other than Knight of the Seven kingdoms
Only if you're from a thirdie country that pronounces it "Aynuss".
What the hell is a Keeper of the Keys? What keys?
>>25362683The big vault where the treasury is kept is unlocked by a bunch of keys for safety and only the master of coin and his keepers can access. Or they are the key holders for cuckravens chastity cage
>>25362611It’s actually a good name it’s just associated with something gross like diarrhea
>>25361502the Iron Islands kept doing their thing just as they had been before the conquest and Dorne took a couple more generations of Targ kings and a marriage into the royal family to actually """integrate"""" into the Seven Kingdomsfor the Riverlands, the Vale, Stormlands and the Reach it was just business as usual at that point in history, as some anons have pointed out, and rebelling wouldn't have been the best of ideas because being the idiot that keeps fucking over everybody else, fresh from yet ANOTHER civil war, is widely considered a dick move and cause to get fucked over in turn (eg: the Iron Islands)most of the North simply don't want to rebel because they have more important stuff to think about, like the wildling incursions and their autistic obsession over oaths taken and given
new>>25362935>>25362935>>25362935>>25362935>>25362935
>>25362593joffrey's dead mate
