Diomedis Mavortem volnerantis editio>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>25369072>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
τοῖσιν Ἑλληνίζουσιν
>>25396818Even if his ability in Latin/Greek, his knowledge of the corpus, and his teaching experience were 25% of what it is, no one would make fun of him for naming the pronunciation after himself if he simply had an M.A.The seethe reflects badly on the Academy.>>25396989Anyways, ITT we roll on the Christian Latin table.
>>25396989I want to read Metamorphoses and the Aeneid to improve my understanding of early modern English literature. From what I know, everyone learnt Latin in those days at school. Would my time be well spent learning Latin to read those two works? or would it be fine to just read some antique translations? Arthur Golding’s Metamorphoses was quite popular in Shakespeare’s day, although no translation of the Aeneid seems to have been more popular than the Latin until maybe Dryden. The reason for antique translations is that I’m also developing a style on early modern English, so reading as much of it as possible is essential. TL;DR: Learn Latin to become one with Shakespeare?
Ps: I’m reading Tamburlaine the Great at the moment and *every* classical reference is from Virgil or Ovid, seems like.
>>25397014it helped me
Have any of you ever read the doctoral dissertations of Kant, Schelling, Hegel, etc? How is their Latin?
>>25396999>tripsOh boy, rerollan on all 5
>>25397021How? and with what?
>>25397014>Would my time be well spent learning Latin to read those two works?Yes for the works in themselves, no if your goal is to just improve your reading of Shakespeare. You would better spend your time reading translations alongside secondary literature
>>25396812Beeson’s medieval latin primer>>25397047This exact subject was discussed last thread in some detail so I would suggest you go check the posts there.
>>25396989>ywn learn these languages when your brain is optimized for doing so
>>25396989How do I stop mentally translating?
>>25397179shut up faggot. What does that even mean? Dumbest whiny platitude ever. Stop complaining and go read pussy.
>>25397179>when your brain is optimized for doing sothis is a meme
>>25397189>>25397200It's a proven fact that the optimal window for language learning is crazy early. Its possible after that, but only if youre some kind of savant.
>>25397326
>>25397326Kek>the anglo pig withdraws to its shit stained den to eat yet another processed microplastic filled burger>on the bag a curious series of letters>familiar yet foreign>what's that? A weird apostrophe?>"c'est la vie">the anglo pig's hand shake, it's intelligence shattered, breathes heavily while ontological conundrum sets in the roof of his soul>"where is it, oh my god">he picks up the last edition of the new York times, tunes up CNN, Joe Rogan podcast. All at once >there there... at last... solace
>>25397014No one here is going to tell you don’t learn a classical language so your question is pointless at best. What are you looking to get out of reading a 2,000 year old Virgil poem? Ask yourself that and work from there.
apparently the vatican's new latinist (or whoever runs the pope's latin twitter) sucks? how bad is his latin?
>>25397366If the complainers are complaining in English, who cares?
>>25397354
>>25397354It improves your verbal iq and social awareness
>>25397014Ill tell you to not learn it, go to /biz/
>>25397366Where are they talking about it?
>>25397157>This exact subject was discussed last thread in some detail.It wasn’t.
>>25397354Breathe, anon.
>>25397501twitter
>>25397514which wing?
>>25397507I’m gonna lose my marbles>>25397014>Would my time be well spent learning Latin to read those two works?Yes. Obviously. If you decide to learn Latin please please please just pick an okay textbook and actually stick with it (check the FAQ for books) and don’t post here asking about it. Also if you care at all about Early Modern English the more exposure you get to the Vulgate the better, especially since the gospels are the easiest latin literature. It’s the literary foundation of the West. Early modern versions of the bible like the original king james version, the douay rheims (which is very latin-literalist) or even the great bible from Henry VIII may also help. However, if you want to just “get the references” reading in translation is fine. But learning Latin makes you internalize rhythm, sentence structure, meter, etc. in a way you don’t get otherwise. You won’t really feel in your bones everything Shakespeare does without it. It’s by no means essential, but it gives you a very different perspective on the texts.
>>25397014check out interlinears and parsed books***Aeneid***https://archive.org/details/vergilsaeneidboo00virg_0https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822003632080https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ASLnGTytU3YChttps://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lqQNAAAAIAAJ***Metamorphoses***https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=b0pWAAAAcAAJhttps://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zSgZAAAAYAAJhttps://archive.org/details/bwb_T5-CWR-690https://archive.org/details/firstbookovidsm00ovidgooghttps://archive.org/details/firstbookofovids0000ovidjust ignore this homosexual >>25397546>>25397546>don’t post here asking about itThey are free to post about that if they please. That's not for you to decide. It's on-topic, unlike the cats and anime you spam. Fuck off from this thread, homosexual.
>>25395810Not sure who compiled it but they did not finish it. You can supplement some of the missing keys with the Greek 101 pdf that uses Pharr as a guide up to lesson 36.
>>25397693another interlinear for Aeneidhttps://archive.org/details/virgilsneidboo00virg
>>25397014>>25397693actually only one of those books is parsed, this one, see picrelhttps://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822003632080this book has limited parsinghttps://archive.org/details/vergilsaeneidboo00virg_0the rest are just interlinears
>>25397726>>25397699forgot to link this, that one is also just an interlinear
Why would Pharr advise not to pronounce iota subscript? Wouldn't it stand to reason to assume it was actually pronounced in pre-classical Greek?
>>25397179The fact that you missed the critical period of language acquisition is a real grievance for modern languages. It is not for dead languages, because no parent in the world raises their children to have Latin as their first language, so that was not a possibility that you missed because no one has it. Will you sound exactly like a Latin speaker from Rome in the year 43 BC? probably not without some effort, but who cares?. Latin is a dead language, there are no native speakers to mock your accent. If you learn latin and read Caesar or Cicero in that language, you are already a patrician of the soul and better than 98% of humanity even if you have an atrocious accent in said classical language.
>>25397179retard
Did the aesthethic qualities of your target language motivate you to learn it (the writing system, spelling, sounds and poetry of the language) or is it primarily to read non fiction and prose in the language without missing the part that gets lost in translation or was there another motivating factor? I like the phonetics of latin. It doesnt have any harsh sounds (like the guttural r sound). I have so far failed to appreciate the beauty of other classical languages because i feel that Greek would iq filter me and i also dont know anything about its phonetics, i cant read it so i cannot appreciate the beauty of its spelling and its alphabet does not look particularly pretty to me. It wouldnt make sense to learn a language you cannot appreciate the sound and writing of, right? outside of English, that is. Considering the high quality of contemporary translations.
>>25397822imagine being this shallow
>>25397822>Did the aesthethic qualities of your target language motivate you to learn itIt's part of this, yeah. Although I came to despise Arabic for poor quality of its literature, it has a beautiful calligraphy. Writing in Arabic gave me an aesthetic pleasure in and itself. Chinese has a beautiful calligraphy as well. But I would never learn languages with butt-ugly writing system like Thai.
>>25397822Greek and latin arent much different in grammar but most of the words are completely different, its like the difference between french and german. Yeah if you like archaic stuff like shakespeare with all of the thy, thous, thees etc, you'll love latin its as thick as shakespeare is to modern stuff, and the difference between latin to shakespeare is even greater than that
Prayerbook English is a liturgical language. Prove me wrong.
>>25397693I didn’t tell him not to, I asked him not to. And it’s good advice anyways. Maybe if you posted here less you would get past the absolute beginner stage niggerfaggot.
>>25397927Who are you you dont have an Id?
>>25397927fuck off and kys, stop posting here, insufferable faggot
>>25397931>go into niche skill-based thread>have zero ability in the skill>post 50 times a day anyways>all my posts are telling people who can actually do the skill that the thread is for to kill themselves and stop posting>constantly tone/topic police>complain when others do itQuale sit, te esse?
>>25397964This thread is for people who want to learn classical languages, not only for people who already know a lot about classical languages, so fuck off with your fucking attitude and your homosexual fucking spam. You should kill yourself because you constantly troll people who post about beginner-level stuff, discouraging them to learn, and you constantly post degenerate off-topic shit. I tell you to stop posting random irrelevant images, you tell people to stop posting textbooks, there's a fucking difference. Fuck off from this thread and don't come back, homo.
>>25397970>This thread is for people who want to learn classical languages, not only for people who already know a lot about classical languages, so fuck off with your fucking attitude and your homosexual fucking spam.I am still learning.>You should kill yourself because you constantly troll people who post about beginner-level stuff, discouraging them to learn, and you constantly post degenerate off-topic shit.As far as I’ve been able, I mostly shitpost in response to you. I only even have anime pics on my harddrive now specifically because you were flipping out on the catposter and I thought it would be funny. Otherwise I effortpost with people who ask an actual question, you just can’t seemingly tell who is posting what, which is fine, but it means you can’t tell when I’m effortposting, and you can’t tell when a shitpost is even me since you constantly refer to posts I never made.Even to you, my response has been, is, and will be that you need to post here less and read more so you can improve your Latin. When I was starting, I came in and asked what textbook to use too, the typical useless open-ended question. I had a lot of questions about processes and techniques, and the best advice I ever got was>do 10 chapters of wheelock’s and LLPSI before you post here again.I sincerely advise you to follow that advice, so that you acquire real foundational ability instead of sperging out in these threads because you’ve latched onto a new autistic interest/side-project and you’re mad people don’t respect your strong opinions in something you possess near-zero skill in. If you don’t go read your LLPSI, you will waste your precious burst of autistic fixation on shitposting and won’t actually get momentum in the skill. Again, please I advise that you go read some Latin, and then come back to the thread and ask questions about the actual language, which any anon here, including myself, would be happy to help you with.
>>25398049Man your goofy
>>25398049didn't read, fuck off and don't come back
>>25398070I keep telling the Swede that but he hates me so (and a few other anons that he thinks are me) Heu!
>>25398074Youre a jewish aryan
>>25398083Gratias tibi ago amice
>>25398049I'm convinced he's just posting for asspats. Links a dozen books with no evidence of having done more than maybe skim one or two, wants to be praised for his "helpfulness" and his "learning" (though when has he ever demonstrated his learning in these threads?). Ad so thin skinned he can't take what he regularly dishes, and so we get >>25398065. Embarrassing.
>>25398104fuck off woman
>>25397773How would you pronounce it?
>>25398104He hasn’t even really skimmed them likely considering he said he failed to make any real progress into the first book he tried. And posting the same five archive links over and over when they’re all easily googleable aren’t meaningful posts. He just thinks they are because of Dunning-Kruger.
>>25397014If your goal is only to recognize with allusionsto Latin poetry, you might as well just read the Cliffs Notes or Wikipedia articles. Unless you derive some sense of personal satisfaction from studying Latin, it's hard to say that it's time well spent. But why shouldn't you derive satisfaction from the study of Latin? You have the desire to LARP as an Elizabethan playright? What could make that LARP more complete in your mind than to firm up your past as an Elizebethan schoolboy, whose teachersbeat you with a rod when you made a mistake? I don't think it would take a long time to learn enough Latin that you can at least attack Ovid and Virgil, and appreciate the Latin as Latin. If you do so, you will find that no English translation can really convey what the originals are like. Also, an interesting article about the "small Latin and less Greek" line.https://antigonejournal.com/2022/05/shakespeare-greek-latin/
>>25398130you're polluting the thread with your woman talk, stay in the kitchen where you belong
>>25398134Yeah it wouldn’t even make sense with the timeline of his life, the education he seemed to receive, and his extensive time in Paris and pulling from so many then-untranslated classical works for him not to know Latin.
>>25398130True dat. Seems to be a gradeschooler too, based on the "sick burns" he gave us at >>25398111 and >>25398138.
>>25398160No he just types like a child because he’s ESL
>>25397892this is my only post itt
>>25397870I don't want to let one of the few occasions there's an Arabic learner in here go to waste, so:Could you write some more about your experiences with Arabic in general? How did you end up studying a language when you dislike its literature? How well are you able to read it, and what did you end up reading (and despising)?I've read the Arabian Nights and Kalila wa-Dimna in translation and was not all that impressed, but there are some very interesting looking historical accounts (ME history, crusades stuff, travel accounts). But no idea what level of Arabic would be required to tackle those.
>>25397870>>25398499I’m curious to what degree one could learn literary arabic with their primary reading material just being the Koran due to how central it is to the language.
>>25398508I'm >>25398499, so not qualified to answer, but I'm wondering this myself. The things I read in translation had much more flowery language than I expected.The Quranic vocabulary is in the low thousands, which is probably not enough to read anything else. Except an easy Tafsir, maybe?
>>25398559If the Koran is the linguistic ideal of the language, won’t the idiom of classical arabic tend to conform more to it, and won’t the grammar match it?
>>25396989Following the FAQ Infographic: just downloaded LLPSI and Learn to Read Latin second edition.Do I just sit down for like an hour with one, then some time later in the day do the same with the other.
>>25398599Yes. Read nigga read. If stuck, look up explanations; reread, reinput the words via audiobook. Read in the morning read in the night read out of joy or read out of spite. Read one page or read two, read all that you can do. Read two or three, and you’ll get where you want to be. Reading is the one part of this process that is absolutely mandatory.If you read a million words of material you can mostly understand (early on this means looking up explanations of grammar heavily, and much more friction/grind/rereading on vocabulary) trying your best to read carefully, you will reach an advanced proficiency in Latin. You can reach that goal through gradually reading an appreciable amount daily for years.
>>25398115As diphtongs ai, ei, oi.>>25398499>How did you end up studying a language when you dislike its literature?I was enthusiastic about the Middle Eastern history and wanted to learn Arabic, so when I was faced with picking my major, I chose international relations that promised Arabic as the 3rd language over Chinese/Japanese translation (big mistake). 3 years forward, and they said there weren't enough students to form a group of Arabic, so I got stuck with English and French (I picked French only because it was widely spoken in the Arabic world, too; I ended up never using it anyway).I paid for the Arabic courses in my last year, but the need to find a job (especially given the need to pay for the nurse for my grandma) led me to leaving them. I continued to learn it on my own, found a penpal on 4chan who I talked with for several years. Ultimately I lost my motivation due to lack of current content in Arabic except for the religious literature, and the prevalence of the dialects over MSA. Like, all the current discourse in Arabic world is about how to properly wipe your ass with pebbles. It's something I would like not to delve into.>How well are you able to read it, and what did you end up reading (and despising)?Mostly simple wikipedia articles and shitposting on /int. I haven't practiced in ages.>I've read the Arabian Nights and Kalila wa-Dimna in translation and was not all that impressedMost of it are translations from Persian and Indian literature anyway. I have some books (Arabic or bilingual) on Sinbad, Joha etc too.>>25398508>I’m curious to what degree one could learn literary arabic with their primary reading material just being the Koran due to how central it is to the language.I've read some passages of the Qur'an, grammatically it's almost identical to MSA. It does rhyme nicely, I must say.Btw if you're interested in the Qur'an there is a really great resource which has syntactic breakdown of the Qur'anic verses, morphology, dictionary. It's amazing for learning the Arabic grammar.https://corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=1&verse=1
>>25397970>let me tell you what a general that has been going longer than I posted on 4chan is all aboutdid it again award>This thread is for people who want to learn classical languages, not only for people who already know a lot about classical languagesso you say, rather, while helping newcomers who want to learn the languages is a basic prerogative, people who know the languages to a decent level have always been more than welcome to practice the languages, mainly because, and you'd know this if you ever did anything more than dabbling, one never stops the quest to improve his skills, especially the active usage of the language which requires, well, using it, usually with others in a context where you are hopefully engaged in order to use it, which with classical languages falling out of public consciousness in the last century has become a hard endevour, even for Latin, let alone ancient Greek and othersif anything in the years I've made and managed the general I always tried to make it more active for more advanced learners, namely get people to outpoooot here, but haven't been too lucky and the only place I practice writing consistently and improved through it is the porticuseven still, maybe you'll actually follow the other anon's advice and actually try to learn yourself instead of acting like a censor without mandate complaining about minutiae like a hall monitor with a stick up his ass
>>25397773well he says 'current practice' so his advice seems more practical given the common erasmian custom of not pronouncing it for historical reasons (it's subscript because it had de facto fallen out of pronunciation by the Roman Koine period)it definitely was pronounced if you follow the reconstructed Attic system fully and imho makes things easier, less ambiguity in your mind even if it's written down
>>25398799Well, that's my point. Homeric Greek predates koine by almost a thousand year. The really botched pronunciation kinda makes me second-guess everything I'm presented with in Pharr's.
>>25398802usually nobody learns a 'homeric' pronunciation it's a choice between reconstructed Attic/Koine and Erasmian, the latter has its importance due to its common usage so he probably just wants to present the common pronunciation today not a reconstructed one, even though he should at least mention it
>>25398777Thanks for the response. If you're mainly drawn to modern stuff (as opposed to classical works), I can imagine Arabic being doubly frustrating.> Most of it are translations from Persian and Indian literature anyway.Annoyingly, often only the Arabic translation survived.> https://corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=1&verse=1Looks really great, and I wish other languages had something like this.> Like, all the current discourse in Arabic world is about how to properly wipe your ass with pebbles.kino
>>25398777Yeah I was under the impression that the medieval grammarians basically based their standard for correct grammar as much as possible on just however the Koran put it. No other language really has a single text like that, and when they do have a canon, it’s usually a more complex and difficult text while the prose I’ve read in (Latin) translation reads like the relatively easy Old Testament. So Classical Arabic interests me because the idea model for style is relatively short and has a small vocabulary and spoken-register grammar.
>>25398792Anon I am keeping up my reading habit diligently with the intent to switch to shitposting here in Latin by the end of the year. Do not lose heart.
>>25398806Well, that's the book specifically teaching Homeric Greek so I expected to cover it. By the same rationale, why bother explain digamma, for example?>>25398825I like Arabic in and itself as the language, the medium of conveying information; not so much for the actual information it conveys. For example, I was infatuated at one point with deciphering figurative Arabic calligraphy I could find on the internet.>>25398828The Qur'anic/MSA grammar is so archaic that one time when I delved a bit into Akkadian using Huehnergard's Grammar of Akkadian I found the case declension system and the indefinite/construct/definite states surprisingly similar.
>>25398864digamma has a role to play to explain certain features of the meter and grammar as a whole, I guess that's the intent, whereas pronouncing a vowel with a different quality or aspirated consonants as fricatives fundamentally doesn't affect things as muchthis is a bit like in Latin when dealing with pronunciation differences, one might use ecclesiastical for Virgil for much of the sounds as long as vowel lengths are respected but to explain elisions like the first one in 'multum ille et terris' you might need to explain nasals
>>25398792didn't read, fuck off woman, fuck off from this thread and don't come back>>25398835fuck off woman, fuck off from this thread and don't come back
>>25398777What does that cover say in English and Romanisef Arabic?
>>25399329Is this what mastery of the Trivium looks like?
>>25399329>responding to guy who runs the general>”fuck off and don’t come back”Can /lit/ jannies please clean up this shitstain already?
>>25399642>>25399661fuck off and kys, nobody fucking "runs" this general, that guy is homosexual or a woman, and so are you, kill yourself
>>25399727Skibidi general
>>25398792Porticus seems nice and all but I wish the format was a bit more imageboardy so it can be engaged with in more depth, i.e. being able to post a pic of the book you’ve read for example. As it is it’s kind of just a text box where Latin happens to be enforced.
chart guide to Chinese philosophyask me anything about classical chinese or chinese philosophy/thought/literature/poetry
cool site to read Plato https://johnhboyer-sys.github.io/plato-reader/
>>25399891Do you subvocalize when you read? If so, do you use the Mandarin pronunciations of the characters?
the bible is like, so boring and shit dawg wtfdozens of pages of some irrelevant generation shit I don't care about
>>25400050Oh my gosh nigger just skip the page nigger do you really need permission from 4chan nigger
Has anyone tried learning Old Church Slavonic or other forms Church Slavonic? Any resources to recommend?
>>25399994Yes, I subvocalise when reading classical Chinese and Mandarin, but not English. I use Mandarin pronunciations because that's what I know
>>25400098it doesn't count as reading the book then
>>25399392>What does that cover say in English and Romanisef Arabic?'Noble speech'kalaam shariif
>>25397179LSD re-opens the critical learning period
>>25399963nice one I added it to the FAQ
>>25400149few threads ago there was an OCS anon
How long do you need to keep learning latin to be able to understand basic literature? I tried translating Maximianus and created this:= I =Aemula what has ceded borders to hurry up old age?Why in this weak body have you come?You loosen prison life such greatly I beg misery:Death by now is rest, to live is a punishment to me,I am not who has been: what part this died maximally and what left over faintness and dread they have.Light is heavy in light, the most pleasing things liked,any of all evil in the grave, you tear out to die,while juvenile glory, while mind and feeling remain,the clear speaker I was in total orbit.Often I have molded pleasant lying of poetsand I have molded eastern titles which have molded me.Often I conclude crownand I have earned great prize languages of mine.Who with you're defected just now they are in a memberoh he stays of life great port of the seniorsA lot of it is fine but some of it is unintelligible, although I tried to the best of my ability. And for a lot of literature I feel like I have a dozen balls in the air trying to understand intermediary sentences. It's a shame because I have deep passion for Latin and Rome but with most endeavors like this in my life I have eventually given up to the sudden disinterest and/or burnout, and I worry that if that were to happen before I can get a good grasp of Latin it all would have been for nothing./vent
>>25400648an elegiac poem with its meter and poetic references isn't exactly basic literature if you are still at this level, seems like you are rushing, you should be able to easily translate/sight read basic prose first
>>25400783I have been learning for two months and Maximilian's eligies are considered to be among the easiest Latin literature
>>25400798two months ain't much especially if you do this as a hobby, if you have this much trouble with individual sentences you should be backtracking to easier prose, don't get fooled if you read this stuff was used as "elementary" material, that can still mean years under the discipline of a tutor
>>25400648>the clear speaker I was in total orbitMy sides are in total orbitGo read your LLPSI or something dude. You’re getting way ahead of yourself. Establish a reading habit with a book designed to make you literate, then transition into some “easy” prose (not poetry).
>>25400289Oh, yeah. That’s right. It has the AL diagraph.
>>25397970Middle school children learn Latin successfully every year. You are incredibly pathetic.
>>25401108You know nothing of my life
>>25400149I have a grammar. Unironically attend a Russian Church. No, I have not studied it, but I have dabbled in some Russian and considered learning Bulgarian and other Slavic languages.
>>25401119NTA sed duo puncta sint quod pathetice sis.Quaestio IArticulus IUtrum Anonus sit patheticus>Videtur quod Anonus non sit patheticus. Anonus linguam latinam discere vult, et quotidie conatur ut hanc rem impleatur.>I. Praeterea, Anonus Suecius est, et Suecia est Patria magna et pulchra.>II. Praeterea, Anonus multas litteras scientia plena praescribet. In eam valde arguatur ut hostes ei se interfecit. Certe Anonus saepissimus est.Sed contra est quod dicitur in >>25369808>He's been struggling even to use fully parsed Caesar with an AI helping himRespondeo dicendum quod Anonus et non vult discere linguam latinam et non quotidie legere vult ut latinitas melior faciat. Ad primum dicendum quod Suecia est patria parva et plena somalis. Forsitan quidem quod tam rustica patria natus est, irascatur. Ad secundum dicendum quod Anonus tam stultas quam asinus scribet, sicut littera sua plane videntur. In “4chan” Anonus quotidie multas litteras per diem et noctem scribet et in /lit/ et in /pol/ plena ira. Hanc rem equidem agat in saecula.Ergo, Anonus patheticus plenus mentulis certe est. (an “plena” hahahae)Written on my phone taking a shit trying to write more Latin. I’m sure it’s riddled with errors but I won’t proofread so long as it’s vaguely intelligible.
>>25400648It really depends on what you mean. I agree with the general thrust of the article.https://latinitium.com/is-reading-latin-impossibleYou probably won't ever get to the point where you can pick up a random piece of Latin literature from 2,000 years ago and be able to read it with the same ease as your native language. Sometimes the >Aemula what has ceded borders to hurry up old age?Does this make sense in English? I have no idea what your translation is supposed to mean. If it doesn't make sense in English, can it be called a translation? At least if you make something intelligible English, you could fool someone (maybe even yourself!) into thinking you understood it.At the same time, don't make the mistake of thinking that producing an English translation (even a correct one) is the same thing as understanding the Latin. Nor is it necessary to be able to translate Latin into English in order to prove you understand the Latin. Nor even do you have to perfectly understand a Latin sentence in order to profit from it. It could be a small detail that's preventing you from unlocking the meaning of the sentence, but you can still see how it fits together, or, failing that, at least scavenge what you can, whether that be vocabulary or copper wiring.In these opening lines the narrator is lamenting the misery of his old age and bidding death to come.>Why in this weak body have you come?This is closer to a correct translation, but what about "tarda?" Also the form is present tense "venis," not "venisti." The narrator is asking why do you (death) come late? >You loosen prison life such greatly I beg misery:What are you interpreting as "such greatly?" The phrase "tali de carcere" just means "from such a prison [as this]." "Solve" is an imperative (a command). "Release my miserable life from this prison.">I am not who has been"Non sum qui fueram" here means something like "I am not who I used to be." However you translate it, "fueram" is a first-person verb.You're right that this is probably not such a difficult work as far as Latin poetry goes, but it sounds like you have a tenuous grasp of the basics, and you'd be better served by working on something more concrete and with more supporting resources. It's one thing to not feel satisfied you fully understood the sense of a sentence here or there. If you're failing to make sense of every single line, you might be learning something (at a certain point, even that's questionable), but it's going to lead to frustration and a lack of enjoyment. At least pick something that has a translation you can refer to help clear up doubts and help you follow the thread of the narrative.
I am a first year philosophy and engineering dual majorIs it possible to learn Ancient Greek first or do I need to learn Latin? I've never studied a language beforeIs latin even worth learning for me?
>>25401200Well on first reread it looks like I have enough of a grammar engine and phrasing engine to see my several errors, so that gives me hope I can improve over time. Usually I carefully edit before posting.
>>25401207No it’s literally impossible.Yes Latin is worth
>>25400798Two months is not a lot of time. What did you do in those two months before you started trying to attack Maximianus? You should do what >>25400937 said and spend the majority of your time working through LLPSI. That's going to be a much more efficient use of your time than what you're doing now.
>>25401200>Utrum Anonus sit patheticusRich coming from someone who has to use a toilet.
>>25401108>>25401200You're homosexual, this thread sucks because of you alone
>>25401226Cacasne in silvis?>>25401227Cum pluribus hominibus loqueris.
>>25401200Ah shit I meant pathicus. Oh well.
That cocksucker can gtfo
Errare humanum est
>>25401205>https://latinitium.com/is-reading-latin-impossibleI'm ngmi
>>25401304Tom Keeline is an excellent latinist in terms of personal ability and experience but he also once wrote an article claiming it was virtually impossible to learn 6,670 Latin words which is so patently retarded it can only be born from gargantuan blind spots and learned helplessness regarding Latin. Basically, he’s the cream of the crop, but his views on Latin pedagogy are unreasonably pessimistic.
asking for a friend. how do i translate this word by word
>>25401336>dalon; It had been clear>gar; for>os; of those referred>umeis; ye (plural)>men; on one hand>tauta; this (subject or object)>ti; why?>pote: when>bouleste; methinks thee (plural) consouled>samainein: TO signal>hopotan; at any time>hon; being>pteggaste: methinks thee (plural) hissed>palai; long ago>gignoskete; Thee (plural) learn>ameis; we>de; but>pro; first>tou; of the>men; (on one hand)>Oometa; methinks we suppose>nun; now>de; but>prorecamen; we poured forth
>>25401391>Then since we are in perplexity, do you tell us plainly what you wish to designate when you say “being.” For it is clear that you have known this all along, whereas we formerly thought we knew, but are now perplexed. So first give us this information, that we may not think we understand what you say, when the exact opposite is the case.—>‘For manifestly you have long been aware of what you mean when you use the expression ‘‘being’’. We, however, who used to think we understood it, have now become perplexed.”>Motherfucker, you keep sayin' "being" like you owned that game. You been knowin' what it mean, we just thought we did. Now we all twisted, stuck in perplexity. So quit talkin' sideways—tell us plain what the fuck you mean, before we walk off thinkin' we got you, when we got the exact opposite.
>>25401391Most of that is a parenthetical aside if it seems flamboyant>>25401397yeah probably
>>25400050you may skip god forgives
>>25400190Oh my gosh nigger then speed up when the text is easy. Is “jacob autem genuit isaac” really hard to sight read quickly?
>>25401320Someone should really suoe this guy anki and sentence mining. Or heck, just Comenius. https://www.brycehedstrom.com/wp-content/uploads/Latin-Vocabulary-and-Reading-Latin-Transactions-of-the-American-Philological-Association-2023.pdfIt’s like his position is that all vocab must be exclusively studied through input without rereading. For example, rereading an author doubles the exposures to all present vocab. Meaning author specific terms that appear 3-6 times are suddenly thrust up to the 6-12 times threshold for retention via input, again not counting SRS.
How do I go about rapidly expanding my vocabulary (Latin in this case, though this could apply to any language)? My grammar is somewhat decent, enough to read some surface level literature, but I understand about ~200-maybe 300 words, so when I try to read I have to look up a lot of words in the dictionary (which is tiring), only to forget them later.
Post your books. Got this bad boy today.
>>25402235What works for me is writing down unknown words and definitions every time I encounter them in a notebook
>>25402270what is the consensus on this one? (don't have a webcam)i bought it at a book store when i saw it.
>>25402235>I have to look up a lot of words in the dictionary (which is tiring), only to forget them later.The trick is to re-read stuff spaced out over days and weeks. You're not going to acquire a word the first time you encounter it, so you need repetition. The more unknown words, the more passes you need through a text to fully acquire everything. You can split stuff into pages or chapters depending on how difficult it is for you, write down when you first read it, then re-read it the next day, in 3 days, in 5, a week etc. give your brain a chance to forget then refresh your memory again.
>>25402289I already do this>>25402294Thanks, this should work :)
>>25402290Highly hated by online Latinists
>>25402235LLPSI Familia Romana claims "a vocabulary of almost 1,800 words," so you stand to gain a lot from just reviewing that book using the tried and true Ranieri Re-Reading Technique™ (RRRT).
>>25402296Yeah rereading is how I did it too. LLPSI also has an anki deck worth kind of blasting through half-assedly, since the main engine is the rereading. The neat thing about Latin is that books like LLPSI cover a real literary core that is highly transferable, because as a relatively compact literary language, only 3,000 lemmas achieves about 95% coverage of Caesar, Cicero, and Livy, who all have substantial works and are considered the height of form and style. English for example wouldn't reward someone who learns the 3,000 most common lemmas with anywhere near 95% coverage of Dickens, Poe, and Shakespeare. [5,000 lemmas reaches ~98% of the big 3 golden age authors btw].>>25402290I have it, and errors aside it is kino.>>25402270I just got my first physical copy of the Oxford Latin pocket dictionary.
>>25402347What are the errors it has that everyone talks about? The only one I've seen mentioned is the use of "ille" in place of "the" but I've heard of ancient poets doing this as well
>>25402382If you go back to last thread (or maybe it was the one before that) someone went over of the more substantive non-idiom issues. I personally own the book and like it lol I just wouldn’t use it as a composition guide.
>>25402235I've been using the LLPSI anki deck and I also add other new words here and there.
Have you ever spoken to someone in an ancient language? My knowledge of Latin is mediocre but I could make out a great deal of this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9XRA4641E, it makes me want to go to Vatican City and talk to priests there when I am better at communicating in Latin.
>>25402871I can dream of it happening
>>25402235Read interlinears (Hamiltonian system) and graded readers.https://www.latinum.org.uk/shadowing/interlinear-methodhttps://archive.org/details/bwb_S0-EFO-307https://archive.org/details/caesarscommentar07caes
>>25403023https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=X3QVAAAAQAAJA very good interlinear text swede is definitely Cornelius Nepos. Similarly small vocabulary like Caesar, but easier sentences and shorter stories. This link has the full latin text followed by the interlinear.
Cambridge Latin Course or Oxford Latin Course?
After Familia Romana, I want to read:>Ad Alpēs>Orberg's Dē Bellō Gallicō>Epitome Historiae Sacrae>Orberg's Ars Amatoria>Orberg's Amphitryo>Orberg's Cena Trimalchionis>Sermonēs Romanī>Carla Hurt's Aeneid readerbefore moving on to Roma Aeterna. Will this be enough for RA? Don't even suggest the Vulgate as the Bible is EXTREMELY boring and I don't give a shit about it or any Christian shit.
>>25403839At least for me Cena Trimalchionis was more difficult than Roma Aeterna, and Cena Trimalchionis expects that you have already started with Roma Aeterna, see pic. Otherwise I think the list looks fine (I also liked Fabulae Syrae).
>>25403899How good at Latin can I expect to be after Roma Aeterna? Will I be able to read Caesar, Tacitus, Livy?
>>25403950Yes, you might as well go straight to Caesar with a Loeb at the same time as starting Roma Aeterna. His is a syntax/sentence barrier rather than as much of a vocab one.
>>25403839>>Epitome Historiae Sacrae>Don't even suggest the Vulgate as the Bible is EXTREMELY boring and I don't give a shit about it or any Christian shit.Cerebrum habes parvum, amice.
>>25403839>I would rather read 10 historically irrelevant extra readers than the foundational text of Western literature and religionLARP
>>25403279For what purpose?>>25403839You're "ready" to start on ROMA AETERNA as soon as you finish Familia Romana. The first chapter is written in a style like Familia Romana. The thing is that the book ramps up in difficulty as it transitions into authentic texts, and the experience there is not going to be like reading Familia Romana. If you ever get to a point where you feel like it's frustratingly difficult to make progress, then you can set it aside for a time and come back to it later.As a general rule, I would try to always be reading something that I can read more or less comfortably, even if you're also spending time working through something difficult, and spend the majority of my time on the easier reading. I'll leave some comments on the books you mentioned. There are other worthwhile student readers you didn't mention. This site has an index of readers labeled with different difficulty levels. The difficulty rankings are subjective, but the ones ranked 2 or 3 are most suitable to read before Roma Aeterna. "Fabulae Faciles" by Ritchie is a good one that starts out very easy.https://www.fabulaefaciles.com/library/books>Ad AlpesThis is a good reader, and it's probably easier than the "authentic" part of Roma Aeterna, but it's not easier than the earlier adapted chapters of Roma Aeterna, so reading it as preparation to even crack open Roma Aeterna is a little silly. Nutting wrote another reader, titled "A First Latin Reader," which I would recommend reading first.>De Bello GallicoCaesar is probably comparable in difficulty to the Livy chapters in Roma Aeterna. The Orberg reader skips over parts (typically indicated by ellipses, I think), but I don't remember the cuts feeling too disorienting when I read it. The reader isn't very long. You could read it either before or alongside Roma Aeterna. As a general comment, these Orberg readers are excerpts of authentic texts that are more difficult than the beginning of Roma Aeterna, so, to an even greater extent than Ad Alpes, reading these Orberg readers to "prepare" to start Roma Aeterna is silly. The marginal notes, while sometimes helpful, are not enough to significantly lower the difficulty. (Remember that Roma Aeterna also has marginal notes throughout.)>Epitome Historiae SacraeOf the books you mentioned, this is the one most worthwhile to read before starting Roma Aeterna.>Orberg's Ars Amatoria>Orberg's Amphitryo>Orberg's Cena TrimalchionisHow are these supposed to be easier than even the unadapted chapters of Roma Aeterna?>Sermones RomaniThe difficulty is all over the place in this one as it's composed from a variety of sources, but I don't think it makes much sense as a preparation for Roma Aeterna. Look at it if you're interested in the contents for its own sake, not as an obligation.
>>25403839>Carla Hurt's Aeneid readerI've heard of this, but I've never read it. The book has "tiered readings," where it has two or three adaptations of a passage that get progressively more difficult, followed by the original. That idea makes some sense, but remember that the early chapters of Roma Aeterna are also a prose adaptation (interspersed with quotes of the original) of a good part of the Aeneid. In any case, I don't think there's a great reason to read this first as a preparation for either Roma Aeterna or the Aeneid rather than just reading the Aeneid chapters in Roma Aeterna. If you like the tiered reading format, there's a similar book called "Erictho," adapted from Lucan.>>25403950Read the paper by Thomas Keeline posted in >>25401832[Spoiler: Reading Latin is IMPOSSIBLE.]
>>25404448Dr. Keeline and Ranieri are like the yin and yang of Latin pedagogy in terms of attitude even though their pedagogy is pretty similar, i.e. a focus on active use and teaching classes in the language, like doing the first year class with familia romana and all in latin.
>>25404442NTA but thanks for the breakdown
Latin primer which has grammar instruction interspersed with interlinear reading sections.https://archive.org/details/latinprimerafir02allegoog
>>25404742>vulgateInstantly droppedIIRC Allen&Greenbough in large part built their books off of Gildersleeve’s work and I recall his own primer having interlinear portions as well.
>>25404894>Instantly droppedWhy? What's wrong?>IIRC Allen&Greenbough in large part built their books off of Gildersleeve’s work and I recall his own primer having interlinear portions as well.Yes, it does have interlinear portions as well.https://archive.org/details/latinprimerintro00gildrichThe author of the primer I posted here >>25404742 is the Allen from Allen & Greenough.
