>>25427615
>all my opinions are completely reactionary and have no substance whatsoever. I have no integrity. am I cool and 4chan enough?

>>25427615
The movie has way more of something to “say” than the poem does

>>25427615
Not getting the engagement you need to feed your twitter account on /tv/ are we?

>>25427622
>reactionary
as opposed to a progressive libertine like yourself? thanks
>>25427627
i'm just looking for slightly more erudite conversation on the matter

Both suck. Consider an hero.

>>25427633
I heard the reaction of a Marxist. His take isn't for the story to be more "progressive" or "woke". He wanted it to be more grounded in the ancient's mindset. He wanted more authenticity. Called Nolan a safe and mediocre director.
But filmmakers always have to consider box office returns. Under capitalism, cash is king, not Odysseus.

haven't seen it yet. I guess it's "accessible", but I just can't stand Matt Damon

Not sure what she means, the movie was based off her translation. It’s embodiment of it. She can’t just decouple from it because it’s in a different medium. Funny she realizes it’s shit though.

>>25427816
Not really. According to Wilson her goal was actually to EXPOSE the ways in which the poem was patriarchal, colonial, etc. Nolan just covers up all the morally problematic aspects because we need to root for Odysseus. Brain dead chuds on the internet thought that Wilson was the one trying to white-wash it when she was trying to do the opposite the entire time and tells you as much in her introduction.

>>25427835
>doesn't know what whitewash means
good lord

It seems obvious that Wilson is a quirk chungus "Oh my Zeus" earnest pagan-respecter and shes hates the film because it's done through a (post-)Christian lens. but neither perspective should satisfy chuds

>>25427615
She’s just trying to curry favor with historians who find “feminist retellings” absurd on their face. It’s a brilliant strategy. Dont say anything at all until it’s out to milk sales from it before hand and then blast it for credibility on the back end.

>>25427615
Woah we took this 2000 year old story and instead of showing how people thought and acted differently back then we did a lazy trite good christianized version instead for modern sensibilities. It's trash and you're a goyslave

>>25427633
get raped in a gulag

Basically they undid the efforts of her translation by framing odysseus as the western colonizer exploring foreign oriental Islands.

>>25427623
Really. The poem created archetypes and characters that lasted millennia. What does the movie have to say?

>>25427899
War is bad...uh... our bronze age is...collapsing o algo

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>25427816
>i didnt read the essay
>in fact i dont read at all

>>25427623
you dont read so how would you know

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>>25427879
>Oh my zeus

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>Wilson noted Nolan’s admiration for the opening line of her Odyssey translation: “Tell me about a complicated man” – but added: “I would be ashamed to have written any part of this script.”
>“The characters don’t have the kind of depth the Homeric characters have. I felt, ‘Do I really care if this guy gets back to his wife?’ You haven’t given me any reason to.”
>“It didn’t land emotionally for me at all. Which I think is partly about the fact that, unlike Homer, it’s not very well written.”
>"[Nolan's Odyssey] has nothing convincing to say...it lacks psychological, emotional, political and ethical depth”.
>“I had hoped that Nolan’s affinity with these Homeric themes might push him to new creative heights, and enable him to conjure more believable characters. But The Odyssey features his usual combination of grandiosity and superficiality … the film’s vision is too confused, its characters too underdeveloped, to deliver what it half-promises in terms of big ideas – although it is very good at conveying big bangs and big giants.”
>“Nolan’s Odyssey lacks many of the elements that make the poem great. It has nothing convincing to say about time, memory, history, war, or about the relationship between one warrior’s glorious return and the lives of his family, adversaries, comrades, friends and neighbours. It lacks psychological, emotional, political and ethical depth. Its narrative structure is gimmicky. The writing is abysmal. None of the characters has convincing motivation for their actions or words. There are no sex scenes, and all the food looks horrible.”
>“This epic is bringing audiences back to cinemas … translations of Odyssey, including mine, are flying off the shelves … [and] perhaps the film will persuade a few college administrators not to cut their literature, language and history departments.”
>“Nolan is doing his best to get the general public reading again, and I am grateful.”
She's mad there aren't any sex scenes and that the food looks bad. Is she GRRM? (No, the picture attached isn't AI).

>>25427896
that's a mirror you're talking to, bourgeois libertine

>>25427928
She's based.
Nolan worshippers are fucking retards

>>25427972
Her translation is the literary equivalent of Nolan's film. I think she's just mad The Odyssey will be more closely associated in the public consciousness with the name "Nolan" than it will be "Wilson".

>>25427992
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>25427928
I don’t necessarily disagree with her here. Damn.

>>25427652
Neither Nolan nor Wilson or Marxist, but Wilson definitely is more faithful. She is against whitewashing Odysseus because she says he is likable and sympathetic despite doing things we find extremely repugnant by today’s morality. Whereas Nolan retcons him into a Christian protagonist which she finds irritating, e.g. she dislikes that he has Odysseus as being sexually faithful to Penelope instead of having sex with Circe and Calypso

>>25428039
you think she's really just mad because she self-inserts as girlboss Circe?

>>25428044
No she’s irritated because Nolan takes away from the moral complexity of Odysseus as an anti-hero (he has the exact opposite values as those Achilles has) and makes him into a conventional hero while claiming to be inspired by her idea of him as someone full of contradictions (which evidently he understood to be ridden with guilt over the Trojan War)

Emily Wilson doesn’t really politicize Homer, she just dumbs his word down but unlike other translators who do this she uses a meter.

>>25428066
Because she knows dumb 304s love meter.

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>>25427615
She hates it for not being woke enough, give me a break.

>25428099
>victim

>>25427951
ill stab you and rape your pets

>>25427615
>Villain teams up with the heroes to take down a greater evil
Kino

>>25428099
i will be ignoring this and amplifying the other parts
>>25428113
nah

>>25428145
>i will be ignoring this
That's not how it works you little shit

>>25428157
that's exactly how it works. emily wilson hates the odyssey because it's (not) woke (enough) (delete the parts in parentheses)

>>25428160
Maidenless behavior

>>25428160
>i will NOT be ignoring this

>>25428162
zoomer nonsense
>>25428169
fine, i will be ignoring the parts of it i don't like. emily wilson hates the odyssey because it's woke

>>25428160
The film has Odysseus telling Penelope “promise me if I don’t return, you’ll take another husband” and Penelope weeping saying no no. Wilson is right, is turns all the female characters into lame retards. Penelope in the book deliberately flirted with the suitors to extract maximum gifts from them which Odysseus sees as positive. Helen doesn’t express remorse for adultery so much as the consequences of her adultery, the war, which she blames herself for in the Iliad. Clytemnestra is angry over her daughter being murdered but she is ultimately a very masculine woman (which Greeks considered negative) and murdered both her husband and her husband’s slave out of jealousy)

Nolan’s dialogue all seriously sounds like AI. Wilson described Odysseus as a likable rogue (remember Athena found his compulsive lying charming), where Nolan depicts him as the stereotypical American soldier

>>25427615
I feel like people say Nolan is a great director because they were told he is

>>25428184
This is how politics has been going too.

SAD

>>25427615

My preferred boards are both /tv/ and /lit/, so this little catfight is especially interesting to me.

Both Wilson's translation and Nolan's film adaptaion are modern versions—each mediocre in their own way—released during the same historical period. Leaving aside all considerations of quality (or lack thereof), this direct competition is all that you need to know about in order to understand her displeasure. She is fully aware that the Nolan film is direct competition for her translation. That's all. And even if the Nolan film goes in the same dustbin as other Old Hollywood movies before, the sheer fact that it's a "popular" movie means it has much better odds of being re-evaluated over the years. I suspect that Wilson's translation (which I have not read) may not hold up as well. What we really have here is a fight between two mediocrities in the same territory, and the one has the advantage of a completed film, a strength in mediocrity.

It's the same fundamental reason why the South Park guys hate Family Guy. Quality is irrelevant, on either side, except inasmuch as they are comparable, which they are (edgy cartoon shows). What matters is that they're in the same business doing basically the same thing, and are therefore each other's competition.

>>25427928
even if she is a liberal woman she still clearly loves homer
you almost have to in order to go through the trouble of translating him

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>>25428066
>Emily Wilson doesn’t really politicize Homer, she just dumbs his word down
When will you dopey r*dditors ever learn?

Basic facts have to be rubbed in your face every time there's a fucking Wilson thread.

>>25428227
Nolan is not a competition with her translation you stupid fucking idiot. Nolan said his movie is based on her translation and if anything would boost sales and exposure for her

>>25428243
>Nolan said his movie is based on her translation
He never did. It was the chudosphere that ran with it after he used it in an interview. In reality, he said he has read several translations including Fagles and Rieu.

>>25428244
But you're right. That anon is an idiot otherwise.

>>25428242
Taking out politics shoehorned into the Odyssey isn’t politicizing it. The Cyclopes and his race, described in the Odyssey, are in a sort of Hobbesian state of nature, which was equated by post liberal Europeans as the basic and uncivilized form of humanity, that nearest to savage, which obviously the Greeks wouldn’t have thought. The Cyclopes are considered to live a totally non-human way of life, in line with Aristotle saying that only beasts and gods can live without society, man is a social animal

>>25428244
Have you seen Nolan’s Odyssey? It’s clearly the closest to hers in terms of using modernized, American dialect. It’s just that Nolan also fills it with modernized, American characters which she doesn’t

>>25428251
I have. Tbh, it's not accurate to any translation. It's a modern rendition of the poem.

>>25428249
>Taking out politics shoehorned into the Odyssey isn’t politicizing it
oh here we go. there's nothing political about savage. calling savage political is definitely political just because boohoo poor nigga feefees

we refer to this excerpt >>25428099
and understand that again, to this very day, her primary objective hasn't to do with Odyssey, but with nigga feefees. All alleged ideology is post-hoc rationalization for white guilt rampant.

Wilson is scum, and you're retarded.

>>25428227
The fact she is now writing Wilson Odyssey II does seem to indicate that she wants to operate under a Hollywood rubric.

>>25427822
This.

>>25427892
Was about to agree until you had to throw in that random antisemitic remark

>>25428277
tbf it's an anti-insult remark.
Like a black guy making fun of white people for using the N word all the time.

Also tbf. It's well over 2000 years old.

>>25428256
What Homeric term does “savage” translate without any liberal theory of state of nature connotation?

>>25427928
Like it or not she's simply correct here, she does actually know what she's talking about

>>25428160
>emily wilson hates the odyssey because it's (not) woke (enough) (delete the parts in parentheses)
Wait there's deep wisdom in this

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>>25427652
>He wanted it to be more grounded in the ancient's mindset.
Only a marxist, a studier of dead things become, could believe the like possible.

>impying any of you retards read or gave a shit about a bunch of homer translations before it became an internet meme topic
>implying any of you gave a shit before it became an internet meme topic
>implying any of you actually watch movies
>implying any of you aren't part of a marketer's bot farm
s h i g g y

>>25428376
Homer translations have been an autistic thing hangup on this board for over a decade

>>25428383
of course, because none of you actually read them and therefore it's low hanging fruit of ragebait.

>>25427928
Those saying she's correct didn't read the story and haven't watched the movie.
>Nolan’s Odyssey lacks many of the elements that make the poem great. It has nothing convincing to say about time, memory, history, war,
None of that is remotely correct.

She seems to have difficulty being able to delineate Homer's Odyssey from Nolan's version of the Odyssey, and seems to have difficulty understanding that oral tradition (and written afterwords) are different mediums than a 3h movie.

She is a translator and not an adapter, and this is obvious with her seemingly dogmatic adhesion to her baby and inability to latch on to new concepts that deviate slightly from it. Wondering if Odysseus felt guilty for the slaughtering of Trojans is a worthwhile question, even if it isn't presented in the Odyssey. And it relates to a contemporary audience, just as Homer related to his 8th century BC audience, just as Wilson tries to relate to her 2010s audience with her translation.

>>25428099
She's actually being roasted online for this quote, people calling her racist and how it exposed her own racial biases if that's how reductionist she's being towards those members of the cast. Especially Eurylocus, who is the person who spends the most important time with Odysseus.

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>>25428388
This is such a fucking retarded take it loops back around to being galaxy brained in its own way. I'm in awe of your intellect but not in the way you want me to be

>>25428393
She wanted the people of colour in the movie to have more prominent roles, and made claims that they were simply there to make the main lead look better without any importance within themselves. She reduced Hamish Patel's role to that of the "black best friend." Which is far more telling about how she perceived the people of colour in the movie instead of how they were actually treated.

>>25428446
>She wanted the people of colour in the movie (to have more prominent roles, and made claims that they were simply there) to make the main lead look better without any importance within themselves.
woah, based

>>25428467
It was such odd criticism. It felt stuck in 2020. If a black person is on screen, they must have a reason for it, their blackness must be realized and be known! To her, they can't just be actors that are black playing pretend, the blackness is important and must be celebrated!

Laughably racist from her, and she seemingly isn't even aware of it.

>>25428388
She's definitely correct, the movie is devoid of emotional depth, thoughtful dialogue, it has a stupid theme about shame, guilt and ptsd with a nice side of "be nice to everyone or society falls down" when that has nothing whatsoever to do with the odyssey.
It's oppenheimer wearing the odyssey's clothes with a backpack of christian guilt.

>>25428496
>with a backpack of christian guilt.
but anon Troy is just like Gaza

>>25428474
>It felt stuck in 2020
She’s English. What do you expect?

>>25428474
the nigger meta changes every few months, give her a break

>>25427992
>Her translation is the literary equivalent of Nolan's film. I think she's just mad The Odyssey will be more closely associated in the public consciousness with the name "Nolan" than it will be "Wilson".
It's exactly this. She just wants to be the "Odyssey girlie" in the public eye and academia forever.

>>25428099
>Black
>white
Lol. How is this still legal?

>>25428113
>pets
retarded cattlegoy urbanite detected

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>>25427928

Classicists are fucking losers and terrible poets as a whole (see : anne carson).
At least Nolan would still have a career without Homer, that bitch is stuck there grifting with her 3rd-rate translation. Both mediocre though.

>>25428249
>>25428242
>>Taking out politics shoehorned into the Odyssey isn’t politicizing it.
In Homer's The Odyssey, the Cyclopes are described as lawless, uncivilized, and gigantic savage shepherds who live in isolated caves, practice cannibalism, and completely lack any regard for the sacred Greek customs of hospitality (xenia) or the gods.

The original Ancient Greek equivalent used by Homer is the adjective ἄγριος (agrios).

Understanding the Greek Term: Agrios (ἄγριος)In Homeric Greek, agrios carries a layered meaning that directly shapes how the Cyclops is viewed:

Literal Translation: Wild, untamed, savage, fierce, or living in the fields.Cultural Context: It is the direct opposite of hemeros (ἥμερος), which means civilized, cultivated, or tame.The Etymology: The word comes from agros (ἀγρός), meaning "field" or "countryside." To the Greeks, calling someone agrios meant they belonged to the raw, uncultivated wild—entirely outside the boundaries of human laws, agriculture, and city-states (poleis).

>>25427822
>her goal was actually to EXPOSE the ways in which the poem was patriarchal, colonial, etc.
Why do westerners have a severe case of oikophobia? Why can't they be normal and exalt the virtues of their authors and myths instead of tirelessly trying ro bring them down to the mud.

>>25428650
>the Cyclopes are described as lawless, uncivilized, and gigantic savage shepherds who live in isolated caves, practice cannibalism
>Wild, untamed, savage, fierce, or living in the fields
>calling someone agrios meant they belonged to the raw, uncultivated wild—entirely outside the boundaries of human laws, agriculture, and city-states (poleis).
So basically the mutants from The Hills Have Eyes. Very based. I would say this qualifies as savage.

>>25427928
I agree with her. Where are all the rape scenes. I wanted to see Ajax rape that priestess that was clutching the statue of Athena. Nolan is a hack.

>>25427928
The lack of sexuality in the movie is about portraying a sterilized world, filtered through Christian sensibilities. She's completely correct.

I don't even remember that much of sex scenes in the book.
In fact i don't even think there's one,only allusions but my memory is probably failing me

>>25428627
Carson is better than the hack Nolan ever could be

>>25428685
Basically lions, wolves, and wild plants as well. I wouldn’t really call those savage

>>25428688
The movie is overtly Christian and even repeatedly references “Zeus’s law” which is said to be “treat others as you would be treated”, certainly not a Greek more in spite of the sacred obligation toward hospitality

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>>25427899

>>25428746
Shapiro is both right, which is partly why the movie is so crappy, and frightened oblivious to how Israel commits the same war crimes negatively depicted in the film

>>25427652
>Under capitalism, cash is king, not Odysseus.
Kek

This zeus law thing sounds so retarded. Zeus isn't yahweh he isn't gonna smite you for being a bad boy but Americans are mindraped and can't function without thinking about their angry omnipotent skydaddy . Book 1 has zeus talking about mortals not listening to the gods and just making their situation worse, odysseus is one of the few myth characters who never curses the gods and he always gets his wisdom from Athena. There's nothing more decrepit than projecting a bad consciousness into stories of the past. I want accelerationism to speed up so even these well off retards having a laugh at trashing ancient cultures will finally suffer too. This movie is not the odyssey.

>>25427622
>am I cool and 4chan enough?
OP baited you so he is cool enough

The movie depicting Odysseus’s men sacking a town against Odysseus’s wishes and his own righteousness in war is an impoverished depiction compared to Nostos: the Return which depicts Odysseus’s dreams of massacring people, or even the more recent The Return with Fiennes as an Odysseus who has come to find killing more familiar than living. The need to sanitize American soldiers has seeped into sanitizing Greek soldiers

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>>25427928
>There are no sex scenes, and all the food looks horrible.
Holy based

>>25428789
It isn’t just sex scenes, the film lacks any of the sexual tension emphasized by the book. For example Lausicaa is taken out entirely and Odysseus recounts his story instead to Calypso and she seems to be taking care of him as a grandpa.

>>25428242
Have you even read the text in your image? It directly contradicts your claim.

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Apologize.

>>25428376
I was here long before Wilson published her translation and angry retards debating Lattimore vs FAGles, sometimes with Pope thrown in for good measure, was a staple of this board.

>>25428113
Muhamad, pls.

>>25428811
Troy does the same thing Nolan does in Christianizing the material but at least it keeps the failings of Achilles mainly his hubris toward the body of Hector. The Odysseus totally whitewashes Odysseus flaws like his hubris against the Cyclops in bragging as he departs and dropping his name which allows the Cyclops to implore a curse from his father. It also turns the Cyclops into something that barely speaks unlike the creature of the book who is pretty frank and doesn’t mind talking to his supper

These movies are all so very boring.

>>25428256
It's funny how chud posts always come off as ramblings of low iq scum of society. Your mind is drowned deep in the gutters of culture war and Wilson correcting a word that shouldn't have been there in the first place hurts your feefees.

>>25428803
That sounds horrible. Perhaps I was unclear, I believe the criticism is based. I want Odysseus to rape, cheat and steal.

>>25428848
>t. seething retard

>>25427633
Pretty sure he meant reactionary as in favoring a reaction, i.e. resistance or opposition to a force, influence, or movement; not "conservative". Which would be accurate.

>>25428852
Which is not always depicted positively by the Greeks. The Trojan Women depicts his nature extremely negatively. On the other hand, the play Ajax by Sophocles depicts his nature as both an inversion of Greek values and positive. Agamemnon says passively-aggressively to Odysseus that men these days only think about their self interest, to which Odysseus responds, Whose interest would you rather me think about?

>>25427615
Just doing the opposite of your enemies is a good rule of thumb.

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>>25427928
>>"[Nolan's Odyssey] has nothing convincing to say...it lacks psychological, emotional, political and ethical depth”.
The movie literally has like a 2 minute speech explaining the point and she still missed it. Is media literacy dead?

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I prefer the Wishbone translation myself.

>>25429063
I mean that's what Wilson is after when she calls Odysseus a complicated man, right? Or Verity with his "...the man of many turns..."

I actually recently read a whole bunch of ancient greek plays and was somewhat surprised about how multilayered some of them are in regards to women. The Trojan Women, Antigone, Medea of course.

>>25429087
Odysseus is described as a man of many minds. Achilles hates a man with “two minds” (thinks one thing and says another). Odysseus doesn’t have two, he has many

>>25427899
That you lost, chud.

>>25429089
Yup, he's cunning.

>>25427615
>bronze age movie
>everyone is using steel

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>>25427972
>>25428033
>>25428230
>>25428365
>>25428688

>>25429092
He’s somewhere between Harry Lime and Iago. But the Odyssey makes him sympathetic because he renounces immortality to be home and because he is functions as an unwitting champion of the poor by posing as a beggar and wiping out the entire ruling class of Ithaca for their hubris and lack of generosity

>>25427615
If you hate "The Odyssey," you're siding with a foid. Simple as.

>>25427899
Stay true to yourself, and you can overcome anything.

>>25427892
>we did a lazy trite good christianized version instead for modern sensibilities.
This is based, though.

>>25429131
Original.

>>25427994
Cope. >>25427992 is right.

>>25428039
>Wilson definitely is more faithful.
lol
lmao even
everyone in the classics space HATES her and her shitty translations. another example of a foid trying to stake her claim in a male-dominated space. a tale as old as time.

>>25429130
Jeez, what a dilemma.

>>25428162
HEy gUyS i PLaY elDEn rInG anD CAn mAkE JOkES ABoUt iT!!

>>25429105
I'm not a partisan, so I'm capable of agreeing with people whose works I dislike, from time to time. It's incredible, but you better believe it.

>>25429144
People who say things like that are always intellectually immature midwits unaware of their own biases.

>>25429140
Most Americans can’t read above 8th Grade level due to inability or attention span. Wilson’s translation is one in iambic pentameter for that demographic, Americans. That said even comic book adaptation of the Odyssey are much more faithful than Nolan’s

>>25428681
The society of the Odyssey was slave society where the hero opens his tale describing how he invaded some place just because he could, killed everyone there and stole the women for themselves. Why the fuck would you expect modern people to agree with these values? Why do you want us to continue reifying the values of a ruling class that no longer exists and had a completely different societal structure and economy?

>>25427928
>not enough sex scenes
she means exclusively heterosexual sex scenes, right? surely they wouldn't try to shoehorn faggotry and degeneracy into The Odyssey because a foid said so

>>25429163
People who are extremely hostile to those who don’t share their biases and refuse to listen to them are not more “self aware” of their own biases, they are only aware of their biases in the sense they worship them and consider them unquestionable dogma inscribed on stone tablets

>>25429163
I'll make sure to be more severe from now on and never accept arguments based on their own merits, so as to be considered a mature intellectual.

>>25429166
The Odyssey also includes a slave as a major character, the Swineherd, who describes tearfully about how he became a slave. This character is the only one Homer personally addresses in the work in second person, multiple times, with affection, indicating Homer himself was enslaved

>>25429175
retard. The existence of Eumaeus is not Homer showing goodwill towards slaves, but Homer defining what a good slave is, in contrast to the "bad" slave Melanthius, the cowherd, who is brutally castrated and has his limbs chopped off because he didn't slobber on the dick of a master who had been gone for 20 years. Homer is very much reinforcing the values of the ruling class of a slave society by portraying the "good" slave as the one who is so unquestionably devoted to his master, gone for 20 years, that he immediately chooses to engage in mass slaughter of everyone who would potentially challenge the masters rulership. The same dynamic is seen with the women slaves, the "good" slaves are the sycophants totally devoted to their masters, while the women slaves who slept with the suitors (as if they even had agency in that, as SLAVES) are strung up and hung by Telemachus because he thought that stabbing them would be too good for them.

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>>25429167
>shoehorn faggotry and degeneracy into The Odyssey
Wasn't degenerate for the Greeks...

>>25429182
Homer depicts the suitors as evil for mistreating a beggar

>>25429196
Only because that beggar was secretly Odysseus. The ACTUAL beggar, Irus, is portrayed as extremely unlikable and has the shit beat out of him by Odysseus. The poem only promotes sympathy towards beggars insofar as they might be secretly kings, nobles or gods, implying that if someone is actually just a beggar then there's really no reason to care about them.

>>25429202
This is a neoliberal reading not a classical one

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>>25429209
Why would classical authors, who also lived in slave societies, feel the need to or be aware enough to point out and critique the implicit values being reinforced in Homer?

>>25429182
Eumaeus is loyal to Odysseus because, and explicitly because, he says Odysseus is a kind master and treats his slaves with dignity.

>>25429224
>Odysseus is a kind master
Yes, that's how the text portrays him because the text supports the structure of slavery. And in fact the text even fails at doing that because once again, he brutally kills every single slave that showed even an ounce of disloyalty, most of whom didn't actually materially support the suitors or pose a threat in any way.

honestly pretty funny that no matter what Emily Wilson does people will be insane about it. almost like she was cursed by some powerful being

>>25429223
Why do you think classical authors were not familiar with the fact that slave and noble was a mutable distinction? The swine herd himself is an enslaved noble

>>25429227
Well yes he killed slaves that collaborates with the suitors. And wiped out the entire ruling class of Ithaca

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>>25429165
Fuck yeah.

>>25429249
>wiped out the entire ruling class of Ithaca
he killed the sons of the ruling class. the suitors are implied to be young men

>>25429280
Most of their fathers went with Odysseus to Troy

>>25428160
what fucking retard is just figuring this out

>>25429168
>this extreme I'm describing is the general rule and thereby I'm intelligent
Midwit confirmed.
>>25429171
>so as to be considered a mature intellectual
Spoken like a true midwit.

>>25429167
>she means exclusively heterosexual sex scenes, right?
yes, obviously. she means calypso.
where would you even put gay sex in the odyssey?
it's not like the iliad where you could reasonably pull in later classical sources to write achilles and patroclus that way.

>>25429167
your insecurities and victimhood are showing again, michael

>>25429194
First, the dominant sexual dynamic was pederasty (going after the kids seems to be a common thread with fags). Second, men who were fucked were stigmatized. Third, all men were expected to marry women. Fourth, there was absolutely 0 identitarianism like we see in modern "MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+" and, as alluded to above, men who were fucked were stigmatized and thereby politically disgraced.

So, no. By advocating that Greeks had advanced sexual mores you're endorsing pederasty, there was social stigma against homosexuality, heterosexual marriage was still the enforced norm, and there was nothing equivalent to a parade of politicized faggots flashing their dicks in public.

>>25429308
Nice buzzwording. Bigly

>>25429329
The ultimate right wing utopia

>>25429349
Roy Cohn bros…BAP was right

>>25427615
this is the bitch who crammed her politics into a translation? fuck her, fuck all of them.

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>>25428066
>Emily Wilson doesn’t really politicize Homer
stop

>>25429359
Can you give an example?

>>25429083
>The movie literally has like a 2 minute speech explaining the point and she still missed it. Is media literacy dead?
She's qualified that opinion with "convincing" perhaps it is you who need to do a course in reading comprehension so that you'll understand that she didn't miss that but that the movie is terrible at actually conveying that emotionally in anyway. Nolan movies are usually completely devoid of emotion to begin with but this one was especially pathetic.

>>25429322
She presumably also means Circe who is not very sexy in the movie

>>25427615
I have never seen or heard of a movie adaptation of an epic that was good. No movie can capture the scope of an epic.

>>25429406
Nostos: The Return is a good adaptation. It doesn’t try to capture the scope, it spins a realist/magical realism take on a proto-Homeric Odysseus

>>25429400
Oh nose, they're turning against each other again!

>>25429343
>Nice buzzwording. Bigly
>>Spoken like a true midwit (>>>25429308)

>>25429409
Hm. That does sound interesting. And the fact that I've never heard of it means it's either really bad, or incredibly good.

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>>25429374
NTA.

>>25429182
I like how you skipped the part where Eumaeus had his own slave too.

>>25427615
I'm just amazed Achilles wasn't a mute paraplegic non binary pansexual with an eating disorder and a harelip.

Imagine if, before you could simply enjoy a piece of media or even just a random joke, your brain was primed to run it through a cascade of purity tests. Now imagine that these ingrained purity tests are the key kernel of what you've been told constitute "media literacy" and parroting whatever you can to affirm them is what qualifies "critical thinking". Finally, imagine that whenever inconvenient facts are posited, these being impossible to square between the tests and reality itself, the cognitive dissonance, you'll feel but can never recognize, is alleviated by focalizing an ignorance masquerading as righteous indignation and fostered within a protective buffer of snark.

This is what it's like to be a member of the libtard/leftoid coalition.

>>25429549
2015 called, they want their victimhood back

>>25427652
>He wanted it to be more grounded in the ancient's mindset
This is what Eggers got right in The Northman.

>>25428374
>a studier of dead things become, could believe the like possible.
Were you having a stroke just then?

>>25429565
I don't care what goycattle think of a slop movie for the masses. These are the same retards that suddenly understood ancient greek poetry and translation process when Wilson's translation was getting attention.

>>25429644
slash thread

>>25428277
The jew is precisely what you should expect from anyone who has been torturing and tortured as babies for 3,000+ years.

>>25429329
>there was nothing equivalent to a parade of politicized faggots flashing their dicks in public.
Olympics

>>25429436
That’s not actually an example

>>25429644
>These are the same retards that suddenly understood ancient greek poetry and translation process
If you understand any aspect of the world and yourself, you understand the ancients a great deal more than those who deny every basic truth out of an ideological obligation or dogma.
A crude plumber with 98 iq will know more about ancient Greek thinking by scratching his balls than any delusional relugious nutjob on a mission to convert all times to their worldview.

>>25429737
>[ideologically laden buzzword] was already present in the text so if I emphasize it I'm not actually politicizing anything
You're low IQ for not being able to parse that out.

>Vooral de vertaling van de Brits-Amerikaanse hoogleraar klassieke talen Emily Wilson uit 2017 is ongekend populair, "omdat Nolan die specifiek als inspiratiebron voor de film heeft genoemd".
>"Normaal gesproken verkopen we er hooguit een paar per maand, minder dan vijf exemplaren. Nu gaan er wekelijks tientallen over de toonbank", zegt ze.

>>25429770
T. Asmonbald commenting on greek translation.

>>25429778
Can you actually give an example of the text that she is politicizing? Toxic masculinity is just a modernist term for machismo take to harmful excess and that certainly happens in Homer.

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>>25428734
>Basically lions, wolves, and wild plants as well. I wouldn’t really call those savage
savage as applied to those can and has often historically meant 'wild, untamed, not interfered with by human intrusion', along with brute strength, vigor, and ferocity
see the contrast between the savage lion and the cherished and fostered puppy

>>25429994
Historically yes savage in etymology originally meant that. Savage in English usage today however doesn’t mean that, no one would say there are savage weeds in their yard. Just like no one uses “brute” to mean dumb animals and humans with bovine like intelligence anymore.

>>25430011
savage is still notably used in that sense in the form of 'savage jungle' or 'savage forest', though this has of course become increasingly rare
'a savage jungle of weeds in my back yard' is not a sentence so archaic as to be in any way alien

>>25430011
>Savage in English usage today however doesn’t mean that
Nah that’s still what it means to the grugs. Grugs learn these sorts of words from the Bible. Even rappers use the word that way.

>>25430104
Most people today, including myself, would take “savage jungle” to mean full of indigenous peoples. I have only ever heard the phrase “savage forest” in English translations of “selva selvaggia” from Dante.

>>25430255
Rappers use the word to mean to mean brutal. Grug would not say a beautiful painting is depicts something “savage” which is how the word used to be used

>>25430599
Savage(n.) is rhetorically distinct from savage(adj.) to the majority of people. Savage(n.) is tainted with political and cultural baggage. Savage(adj.) is not, and is still strongly associated with that which is undimesticated, untamed, and wild.

>>25430658
ESL

>>25429934
>Toxic masculinity is just a modernist term
You're off by over half a century, retard.

>>25430658
>undimesticated

>>25430738
all that suggests is 'likely not a phoneposter', which is a good thing

>>25430746
>all that suggests
It suggests an ESL who doesn't know the difference between denotation and connotation trying to argue with native speakers about the meaning of a word based on a dictionary definition he's too dumb to copy/paste and/or type out properly.

>>25430753
says the guy who apparently struggles to appreciate the difference between a savage jungle and a jungle of savages
lol, lmao

>>25430765
I'm not the original anon, retard. Your post was so dumb I know you lost whatever argument you were engaged in though.

>>25430731
Modernist doesn’t mean contemporary

>>25427615
I hate women who LARP as academics

>>25430778
No shit, retard.

>>25430726
>>25430738
I will take that as a concession.

>>25430753
Rather it suggests I’m flatly denying your a priori assumption that colloquial definition and connotation are irrelevant, which you have attempted to do while arguing ad populum. /lit/ is filled to the brim with the rhetorically inept.

>>25430776
uh huh
hope your time of the month ends soon

>>25430784
You don’t have an argument, you have a totally unsubstantiated assertion (and one, I promise, you cannot and will not substantiate with all the infinite videos and audio of everyday usage) about archaic use of a word which is laughable to anyone who speaks English as a native language. Just like you would be laughed at for saying people use “rude” to mean unsophisticated and rustic in everyday speech instead of ill-mannered, inconsiderate or obnoxious

>>25430788
I looked above. This >>25430011 is correct and this >>25430104 displays a lack of reading comprehension. If you were to refer to weeds as "savage" it would connote the damage they're causing and not that they're wild or untamed. This is also in line if you apply it to something like a jungle, which is a cliche, but such also connotes danger in a different sense than refering to a person as a "savage".

>>25430784
>I will take that as a concession
Well, your reading comprehension is shit so I'm not surprised.
>Rather it suggests I’m flatly denying your a priori assumption that colloquial definition and connotation are irrelevant
I indicated the opposite, retard. If I point out you don't know the difference between denotation and connotation as a reason to ridicule your argument it indicates they're important.

Holy shit your English is terrible.

>>25430821
retard
here's an excerpt from a novel from 2008:
>The Professor stood beneath them all, telling how, an age upon an age ago, before a stone of Oxford had been placed, before Oxford was even dreamt of, the rock-calendar of the world declared that this land — this very land that the Museum was set upon — was a savage jungle of a place where giant beasts roamed. And after all the monsters had been slain, men built homes of wood and dung. And what did this prove? It proved, surely, that mankind was a race made to learn.

>>25430837
>t. couldn't tell the author is using archaic language and imagery to evoke a sense of the past
LOL! Your language skills are atrocious.

>>25430850
gg, your desperate cope made me chuckle

>>25430837
Savage jungle as a phrase exists like desert island. Desert originally meant uninhabited wilderness. We only don’t say deserted island in the phrase today because deserted means formerly inhabited and that would be like a ghost town. However no one uses “desert” to describe a forest or jungle as it was used in the past

>>25430858
The original anon was right and, in trying to argue otherwise, all you've done is provide multiple examples of your shitty reading comprehension, lol. Very embarrassing, anon.

>>25430819
>>25430832
Please stop projecting your ESLery onto me. It makes you come across as a chubby teenager with too few friends. Maybe you were adopted. You are probably homosexual as well. I will not hold this against you.

>>25430874
you've been straightforwardly proven wrong
do you have some other failure you need me to correct for you?

>>25430868
What's hilarious is the fact his reading comprehension is this bad indicates he lacks general language skills. If he had of stopped earlier I'd of excused him as an unskilled ESL but he just had to give us examples of him not being able to comprehend things he read. Lol.
>>25430883
You're dumb. Stop (You)ing me, faggot.

>>25430888
>you've been straightforwardly proven wrong
Try rewriting that into a straightforward sentence, ESL. Or don't. No more (You)s.

>>25430837
>upon an age ago

This is the cue for transporting the reader back both explicitly and in using literary and archaic language. No one says “an age ago” except to be deliberately archaic

>dreamt
An archaic past-tense as opposed to the much more common “dreamed”

>giant beasts roamed

This is deliberately archaic phrasing

>slain

No one uses this in relation to animals anymore. It’s pretty much always archaic apart from newspaper use for local murders in order to mix-up repetitive terms like kill and murder

>>25430891
good to see you've realized your inferiority
glad I could help

>I'd of
A rare English third language? Mayhaps a friendly Chinee be he?

>ESL doesn't know "I'd of"
He failed the test, lol.

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>>25430894
here, have a 2016 Webster's entry
many more examples abound
you can stop embarrassing yourself

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>>25430919
>t.

>>25428627
Funny thing I learned from this is that Emily Wilson fucking hates Anne Carson. Not sure what Carson thinks of Wilson, but Wilson wrote an entire hit piece on how she thinks Carson is worse than Rupi Kaur, whom she also thinks is illiterate, but at least puts emotion into her writing.

n. 1 [Archaic] >>25430935

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>>25430945
>t.

>>25427622
Should have been /thread right there.

>>25427816
Her complaints are about who got how much to do in the movie based on race: >>25428099

She is the posterchild for the risks of letting women into academia; like if she didn't exist you would have to make her up but you still wouldn't go as far in satire as she goes in reality.

>>25427622
You don't know what reactionary means

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>We know that he drew on things from his own contemporary world, and there is intensive agriculture. Laertes’ farm is intensively farmed. There are people in assemblies now that vote. We know in “The Iliad” there’s a mention of mass warfare, not just chariot or javelin or archery, but massed heavily armed people with spears that would resemble Homer’s own time, with phalanx or what we call hoplite warfare.
>Let me just finish then. What do critics get wrong? They criticize Christopher Nolan because there’s not Bronze Age armor, but there isn’t in Homer either. There are just little traces of evidence from the Mycenaean or Bronze Age. They criticize him because of the dialogue. Well, we don’t know. And that’s from a different translation by Emily Wilson.
>There are better translations. Richard Lattimore’s is the best. But the dialect in Homer is repetitive and, as I said, formulaic, and it doesn’t approximate what most people are speaking.
>So if you’re gonna criticize the colloquial verse of Matt Damon, you have a point in that Homer’s own poem, when people heard it in 750 orally recited, or they read it 100 years later when it was composed or redone with a written text, it would have sounded archaic and not necessarily colloquial.
>These are just some of the items that are in the background of Homer’s Odyssey, and to the degree that they frame a film version, or to the degree that a director should work within both the poem and the historic realities in which it was composed, I’ll talk about in a subsequent one of our talks.
VDH is based.

>Video:
https://youtu.be/ykXeDr37b7w
>Transcript:
https://www.dailysignal.com/2026/07/28/hanson-history-homers-odyssey/

>>25430919
I said usage though not definition. Definition means the written rule, usage means the unwritten rules which come from how the language is actually used by speakers of it

>>25427898
That's in line with her translation.

>>25427899
Since nolan guts anything of substance from the narrative, he has to find something to replace it, though he was clearly desperate to synthesize some kind of overarching theme or message. What he came up with was a mix of "ZEUS' LAW!" (repeated ad nauseum like the "my son!" of tenet) and "I guess we were the sea peoples all along". It's about as generic a "why can't we all just get along?" whatever as could have possibly been written, and it doesn't even on its face make sense in the narrative.

>>25427928
>There are no sex scenes, and all the food looks horrible.”
The hell is this bitch even on about? I assume that because she cannot knock nolan for making ideological changes to the narrative (since she is eminently guilty of the same), she's caught grasping for straws, all either petty or progressive.

>>25428474
That's not what her criticism is. She is saying that the colored characters lacked any depth, agency or screentime. Not that their race does not take center stage in the narrative.

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>>25431016

>>25427994
He's spot on, thoughever.

>>25428039
>She is against whitewashing Odysseus because she says he is likable and sympathetic despite doing things we find extremely repugnant by today’s morality.
When and where has she ever said that? I assume in some interview, probably about nolan's slop, because she strongly and repeatedly hints at the opposite in her own intro and TN's. Rather, she deliberately, by death of a thousand tiny but unrelenting cuts, maligns odysseus' character throughout her translation. She does this from the very first passage, where she removes the lines about 1. him trying as hard as he can to save his men and 2. that his men died due to their own folly. For a longer review I recommend reading Richard Whitaker's review of her translation:
>>>/tv/221966918
It's a nice read.
>she's more faithful than nolan
That's an incredibly low bar to clear.

>>25428066
>Emily Wilson doesn’t really politicize Homer
Nigger, are you serious?

>>25428746
>benyamin shapirostein
Forgive me if I don't bother reading it.

>>25431071
I am 100% serious when I say your use of the term nigger is political unlike anything in her translation

>>25431060
>What he came up with was a mix of "ZEUS' LAW!" (repeated ad nauseum like the "my son!" of tenet) and "I guess we were the sea peoples all along". It's about as generic a "why can't we all just get along?" whatever as could have possibly been written, and it doesn't even on its face make sense in the narrative.

This take makes the theme of the movie sound more brain dead than it actually is because of the simplistic way you phrased it.

It's not about "we should all get along". It's about idealism. How the structure of an entire civilisation is built upon a concept and once you forego that concept you are left with anarchy, chaos and the fall of order and civilisation itself.

>>25431071
She says in an interview with the Financial Times that Odysseus is a likable liar and she is fond of him and contrasts him with Trump as an unlikable liar

>>25431082
And he concept of Zeus’s law is stated as “treat others as you would like to be treated” and this has never been applied by any civilization in foreign policy which the film suggests as an important issue. The Greeks absolutely did have a concept of “we could easily be in different places” and how a master could just as easily become a slave and a slave a master, which formed their concept of hubris being a human who forgets he is only a human and treats others like animals or as if he is a god, but this is totally different. It doesn’t even have to do with killing or massacring or sacking, it just has to do with sadism or deliberately demeaning and taking away the dignity of others beyond simple violence and contest as when Achilles desecrates the body of Hector or Odysseus taunts the cyclops or the suitors demean the beggar Odysseus

>>25431085
Well there you go.

>>25431078
Why don't you read her own translator's notes you dumb nigger?

>>25428039
>she dislikes that he has Odysseus as being sexually faithful to Penelope instead of having sex with Circe and Calypso
Undoubtedly she has no complaints about calypso encouraging odysseus to go back to his wife instead of relenting to his unbreakable loyalty (wilson repeatedly undermines homer's characterization of odysseus being extremely faithful to his wife and his men).

>>25428121
Nolan is just a slop merchant; wilson is the far greater evil considering she's nominally an educator.

>>25431082
It's stupid because it doesn't work. The trojans are their mortal enemies with whom they've been at war for years; the horse isn't a violation of their xenia (aka Zeus' Law™) in any way, and it's completely in line with homeric ideal of honorable warfare. The ending twist is also comically absurd for reasons I shouldn't have to spell out. Even for nolan it's a hack job.

>>25431103
>It's stupid because it doesn't work
It works within the context of the movie. And I don't see how the horse was anything but dishonorable

>>25427928
Note to myself: Never ever read a book translated by a woman.

>>25431103
The entire relationship between Calypso and Odysseus in the movie is totally different from the book. In the movie she is a woman with daddy issues, in the book it is an inversion of the opening of the Iliad which concerns a woman sex prize held captive by men; here Odysseus is a prize held captive by a woman, and she doesn’t relent to Odysseus, she relents to demands from Zeus.

Odysseus relies on his men being faithful to him more than they rely on him being faithful to them. After all, Odysseus was the one who convinced the Greeks to maroon Philoctetes rather than hastle with his wounds which ended up biting them in the ass. The movie characterizing him as running back into the cave with the cyclops to be sealed in, in order to save the men who couldn’t escape, is not in line with his character in mythology or Homer.

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>>25428496
Is she right? Yes. Is she also a gigantic hypocrite pot calling the kettle black? Also yes.

>>25428582
I have no doubt that you are correct.

>>25430939
If you ever watch the olympics you'll notice that female commentators are unbelievably catty and hypercritical about the women than the men are about the men (when the commentators are former athletes in the sport on display). They have no chill when it comes to anyone remotely perceived as competition.

>>25427822
She projected contemporary moral standards onto the story, modifying the translation to accommodate her ethical judgments, whereas nolan rewrote the story to resonate with an audience with present year moral standards. They are doing the same thing just to different degrees which is why she's pissing her pants over it.

>>25428681
>Why can't they be normal and exalt the virtues of their authors and myths instead of tirelessly trying ro bring them down to the mud.
This is actually haram in modern academia: non-tenured professors have been forced out of their positions for less. It's a generational thing where marxist professors create students who grow up to be even more ideologically fixated teachers until the only boomers remaining have to cater to a "radical" (but entirely conformist) mob. Imagine having a classroom full of students like the imbecile who said "taking out the politics of the story isn't political" or the one who replied to you asking why anyone should read ancient work if no one has those values anymore. I can't think of what is a greater hell: being a student or being a non-captured professor in modern academia.

>>25429227
>supports the structure of slavery
Shut up you complete and total moron. Slavery was the global norm, cross culturally, until the last 5 minutes and you know who ended it as such? The West. Cry about it, faggot. You're the type of person who would have been arguing in favor of slavery you brainwashed historically illiterate idiot.

>>25427615
>>25427928
She's right
>our bronze age is collapsing
is a real line in the Nolanssey. They're not even in the "bronze age", they're in the "heroic age", and Hesiod never calls them "ages", he calls them RACES because they are physically a different people.

>>25431187
They were in the bronze age and the bronze age collapse happened right around the time the Trojan war happened. See: >>25431016.

>>25431174
She is a hypocrite because she doesn’t try to censor slavery like Nolan does?

>>25431207
No they weren't. To the Greeks, that was the HEROIC race. There were no "ages".

>>25431211
>No they weren't.
They were.

>The Trojan War and the Late Bronze Age Collapse are closely linked in timeline around 1200 BCE, with historical models suggesting the legendary siege of Troy mirrors a period of widespread Mediterranean systemic failure, political collapse, and massive maritime migrations.

Research next time before you say something dumb.

>>25431212
What you're calling the "bronze age" is NOT what the Greeks knew as the "bronze race" you imbecile. It was Ovid who first called them ages, which is where the stupid modern term comes from.

>>25428826
>totally whitewashes Odysseus
I wouldn't call it whitewashing, it's more that nolan dumps the core of the story but keeps as many superficial trappings as he can use to keep it familiar. At best you could say that nolan replaces the homeric hero: flawed but conquering/overcoming/striving against a cruel world, with a modern action hero: morally unimpeachable and only reluctantly resorting to violence.

Wilson just lies in her translation, whereas nolan unapologetically tosses out the original story and writes his own. At least with nolan you know it's fanfiction. (Though the movie itself was an abomination even taken on its own terms.)

>>25431016
This is just some boomer neocon mouthpiece who complains about how all the immigrants and marxist liberals are bad...because they're spending all the money we should be sending to israel! Kindly fuck off.

>>25431123
It does not and the horse was not dishonorable under the bronze age conception of war. Hell, that wouldn't have been considered dishonorable in the west until at least the enlightenment.

>>25431215
I don’t see Wilson lying anywhere. Pope lies to be sure, but Wilson just simplifies at worst

>>25431212
Nah you don't get it, the gold/silver/bronze/heroes/iron were all separate eras or whatever, and the Iliad is explicitly set during the time of the heroes. The Bronze Age is pre-Heracles and Theseus. Our conception of a historical Bronze Age is based on the use of bronze tools, but that's completely divorced form the poetic narrative understanding of history in which the Odyssey was conceived.

>>25431213
>What you're calling the "bronze age" is NOT what the Greeks knew as the "bronze race"
Who cares? Your YouTube gotcha amounts to nothing as the Trojan War and the Bronze Age Collapse are connected. This is reflected in The Odyssey so Nolan bringing it up in a line is based.
> the Iliad is explicitly set during the time of the heroes
In the real world it was set during the Bronze Age Collapse. Your nitpicking over the fact such was pointed out and crying about something being anachronistic when it actually isn't. Homer included a tonne of anachronisms in the stories themselves, dingus.

>>25431215
>This is just some boomer neocon mouthpiece
Who has a doctorate in classics and taught the subject for over 2 decades. You're some retard triggered by the fact he doesn't have TDS, lol.

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>>25431242
Same qualifications as pic related.
>brings up the orange retard for no reason
Hello, rabbi.

>>25431239
It's not so anachronistic as it is plainly wrong, because to the heroes of the Trojan war the Bronze Age was in the distant past.

>>25431247
Jesus, is that really her?

>>25431247
More qualifications than you'll ever attain and that's all that matters for this conversation.
>DURR HE LIKE TRUMP
At least he doesn't try to project his political ideology into his work in Classics, retard. Fuck, get over your TDS

>>25431251
Yes and so is >>25427928.

>>25431252
Settle down, shlomo.

>>25431248
>to the heroes of the Trojan war the Bronze Age was in the distant past.
No, retard. The Trojan War occured during the Bronze Age Collapse and scholarship indicates it was influenced by it. There's nothing anachronistic about pointing it out.

>>25431253
Stop being a retard, Rupinder.

>>25431259
Jeets love H1B donny tee.

>>25431262
Yours must have been denied.

>>25427615
God I love it when I get to watch fights here.

>>25431254
Holy brainlet. You've already been told multiple times why you're wrong. The theories surrounding the Bronze Age Collapse and the entire modern conception of a Bronze Age at all are not in line with the Age of Heroes as described in the Epic Cycle, which takes place after the Hesiodic Bronze Age.

>>25431270
Hesiod isn't Homer, retard. The Trojan War and the Bronze Age Collapse coincided with one another and scholarship indicates such had a profound influence on both The Iliad and The Odyssey. Pointing this out through a line of dialogue isn't a gotcha. It's you being a retarded YouTube critic grasping for anything you can niggle into a hot take. You're an idiot.

>>25431277
They were both contemporaries, fuckwit. And modern scholarship doesn't even think the Odyssey as written down came from one person. The milieu of the time period was deeply reflective of a Hesiodic influence, and the modern conception of a Bronze Age is taken directly from Hesiod in the first place.

>>25431340
>And modern scholarship doesn't even think the Odyssey as written down came from one person.
Not him, but I hate this.

>>25427615

Yo Muse, pass the mic, let me spit for the OG,
Master of twists, handling business low-key.
Sacked the block of Troy, left the city in smoke,
Spent ten years on the run 'til his gang was all broke.
Peeped a million hoods, learned the rules of the street,
Fought for his life, never tasting defeat.
Tried to save his squad, keep the homies alive,
But the fools were too reckless to ever survive.
Jacked the Sun's pack, ate his cows for a meal,
So the Big Boss up top put an end to the deal.
Daughter of Zeus, stand up and let the track spin,
Drop the needle now, let the story begin.

>>25431026
>it means whatever I want it to mean

>>25431420
Yknow what perhaps we were too harsh on Tyrone's translation.

>>25427615
Can somebody tldr on the movie?

>>25431495
>Odysseus honorable soldier and answers call, tells wife to remarry
>war violates Zeus’s sacred law: do unto others as you would have others do unto you
>odysseus has to spend years in a care home run by calypso while suitors jeer at his dog, a Scottish terrier
>comes home and defeats them in a fair fight because killing your prey even in hunting without it is dishonorable
>cries to wife that he hurt terrorists
>she forgives him while Helen continues to hen peck menelaus as a shitlord

>>25431507
>war violates Zeus’s sacred law
Is it an actual fantasy movie with magic and thunderbolts and fireballs being thrown around?

>>25431527
It has fantasy in Odysseus’s narrative in the care home however how much of this is real is hard to say since his visions of Athena are a hallucination (we know because Mentor gets killed) taking the form of a woman he killed during the war who is punishing him

Nolan took the bits of the odyssey and covered over it with lazy christkek derived ideas. Bravo

>>25427615
She's clearly jealous that Nolan managed to out-subvert her. This movie pierced directly into the heart of the West, sanitizing its foundational epic and inverting every important theme. It's a tragedy that generations will come to learn who Odysseus is not from the source but through this movie and come to think that Odysseus was cowardly, agnostic, ashamed, and humanistic. It's like a focus group of rich bankers got together and plotted how to perfectly propagandize the Odyssey for their own ends.

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>>25431531
Ugh..so it's just a movie about hallucinations. No thanks.

>>25431545
Those generations would not even know who Odysseus is except for this movie and probably 2/3 of the people who read the Odyssey for the first time in the next decade will have read it due to this movie. The other 1/3, because of Wilson