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whore

>>25432157
I really didn't expec it.
Hell, is there anyone who expected it?

>She fucks whoever she fancies
>She fucks the Queen
>She fucks Brandon
>She wanted to fuck Barristan
>She wanted to fuck Ned
>She kills herself

This is the woman everyone romanticized. Wow

Rhaegar is 22 not 33

I don't know why people are so mad that Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar. You'd think people would be happy their favourite sadboy wasn't a rapist.

>>25432174
She's still 14 which is underage even in Westeros, and their combined stupidity still gets her family killed. The only thing which really changes by revelation is that Elia didn't have a problem at all because all Dornishwomen are sluts, apparently.

>>25432176
>all Dornishwomen are sluts, apparently.
lol, Cersei vindicated

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Friendly reminder

>>25432165
clearly she doesn't fuck whoever she fancies if she can't even land the 16 year old shy virgin and the 40 year old shy virgin

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>>25432183
cope

>>25432183
The Targ glazing of the play has GRRM's fat greasy fingerprints all over it

>>25432176
>underage even in Westeros
Technically yes, but not particularly frowned upon if she has already started bleeding

>After reaching the Tower of Joy, Lyanna is much more obsessed with prophecy than Rhaegar.
>tfw Lyanna's "Promise me, Ned" was a demand that he raise Jon to be Azor Ahai and not just to hide him away forever

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>>25432186
Is he so fat and old he has literally lost the ability to stand up? I need to know

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>>25432203
Well no

>>25432211
seems like age is catching up with him, he's lost a lot of weight and it's obviously not natural or ozempic

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>"You raped her! You murdered her! You keeled her cheeldren!"
>26 years after SoS
>turns out to be completely justified in doing what he did

APOLOGIZE

>>25432144
hey, just wanted to drop in and tell how i fucking despise your slop fantasy, have a nice day.

>>25432213
Ah, it would have been cool if Ned hadn't actually been keeping that promise all along but that's fine too.

>>25432211
This is from earlier this year

>In many ways, Martin looks the same as ever. He’s sharp and engaging. His voice is vibrant. Yet his beard has thinned and he has a tougher time walking. He’s also lost weight, but contrary to morbid online speculation, this isn’t due to any health issues.

>“I never thought I’d live to be 77,” Martin says. “I’m old, so I have some old-people stuff. My lower back hurts sometimes. I don’t like to stand around. But I feel OK. Maybe you should make that your headline: ‘George R.R. Martin Is Not Dying.'”

>all the Dornish characters are one-dimensionally the same promiscuous bisexual schemers
>Rhaella was abusive and cruel, not just a victim of Aerys. This fucks up Jaime's personality because his blackpilling on chivalry partly derived from his inability to protect Rhaella from Aerys
>Rhaegar is actually a good person for abandoning his wife and children because Elia not only said that it was ok, but even helped him seduce a naive 15-year-old girl
>Robert only beat Rhaegar because he got a dragon dream in the middle of the fight and was distracted

I don't think these are good changes to the story. Lyanna not wanting to be housewife to Robert but wanting to go on adventures with Rhaegar only to end up dying a housewife is peak irony, because she really would've gotten the adventure she wanted with Robert. I like it.

Why is there so much fucking child sex sex sex fuck marriage sex in these books.

>>25432331
>all the Dornish characters are one-dimensionally the same promiscuous bisexual schemers
Not true, Darkstar is cool

>>25432331
>a naive 15-year-old girl
Oh fuck off. She was a woman grown, and, apparently, more of a schizo than Rhaegar himself.

>>25432333
Pedo author

>>25432211
He's allegedly on ozempic. Which thins out your bone density by creating holes in them. Probably harder to stand nowadays due to that and increasing age.
>>25432174
I'm not mad despite disliking rhaegar. I just dislike lyanna now too and think she's a complete nutter. Made me dislike elia and ashara as well. The play made me like aerys somehow kek.
>roasts bobby b by giving him some splinters in a box of water after his parents died in a shipwreck outside stormsend
>goads rhaegar into killing him at harrenhall, even showing his neck, then when rhaegar pussies out he laughs at rhaegar and calls him a coward and a cuck, ragebaiting him
>he's right about everyone out to get him. Everyone was out to get him. Even elia and lewyn martell were trying to oust/kill him and plotting
>calls elia a dornish mongrel bitch to her face
>insults elia to rhaegars face too
Dudes an evil piece of shit, but he was right and is just going around ragebaiting everyone he can.

>>25432331
She also apparently comforted robert when his parents died and said plenty of girls like his type of guy, but she's more into guys like rhaegar. And after robert killed rhaegar he smashed his chest with the hammer another 12 times in rage.

>>25432174
People WANT Rhaegar to be evil some reason.

>>25432457
>Targs are all evil crazy bastards, incluiding the good ones, like Egg and Dany
>except this one for some reason

Pick a side, George

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I fucking hate asoiaf so much, George should have stuck to sci-fi.

>>25432174
The people who are mad are absolute retards. It's been obvious for like 20 fucking years she willingly went off with him

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I just don't understand this story.

If Lyanna and Rhaegar both believed they have to have a child to fulfill a prophecy, could they not have done it in a way that didn't start a civil war or make it seem Lyanna got kidnapped? Rhaegar could've just asked for Lyanna to stick around King's Landing as a maid to the queen or something. She would've gotten pregnant which would be an embarrassment for the Starks but they could've been hush hush about it and left the father's identity out of it and then handed Jon over to someone else to be raised in safety.

Or did the prophecy also stipulate that they both HAVE to die?

>>25432694
>>Or did the prophecy also stipulate that they both HAVE to die?
seeing as Robert only killed Rhaegar due to plot armor (Rhaegar has a vision that stalls him out in the fight for no reason other than to ensure he dies) i guess so

>>25432694
Lyanna was betrothed to Robert so there wasn't really a way to go about it without creating some big political problems with the Starks and Baratheons

But Aerys and Brandon Stark turned it into a war

>>25432697
Maybe Bloodraven sent him that vision to kill him.
>>25432701
Yeah but it could've at least been an intra-family embarrassment. Lyanna might've tried to delay the wedding for a few more years or get out of the betrothal in some way.

>>25432498
Was Breakspear evil? Aegon III? Daeron II? The Dragonknight? The Maester at the Wall? The Conciliator?

>>25432457
it's foids/normies who think it's icky that the book series about a medieval misogynist world lets 14 year olds get married so anyone who sleeps with anyone under 18 for any reason is an irredeemable rapist no matter what

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I love Margaery

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>>25432414
>The play made me like aerys somehow kek.
Fill out the form anon.

>>25432457
I don't want him to be evil, I want it to be acknowledged that he's an abject fucking retard.

>>25432748
the novels acknowledge more than once he's a fool and his doomed romance killed thousands of people

>>25432739
>Breakspear evil
He was Half-Dornish, the taint in his blood would have revealed itself eventually.
> Aegon III
Offspring of the attempted usurper Rhaenyra, it was only Aegon II's stark lesson on the wages of treachery via the execution of Rhaenyra that kept Aegon III somewhat on the straight and narrow.
>Daeron II
Brought the Dornish into the Seven Kingdoms in a place of prestige, laying the foundations for their later treasonous plots against Aerys the Wise King
>The Dragonknight
Kept that sack of shit Aegon IV alive when righteous vengeance was going to be visited upon him
>Maester Aemon
Was educated in Oldtown, and by being in the presence of the Hightowers was cleansed of his Targ evil ways.
>The Conciliator
Visenya stole all the Targ insanity for that generation and channeled into Maegor to resurrect him after his death in his Trial of Seven.

>>25432752
Yes, but I want there to be no quarter for any "Oh, he had to be a retard for the prophecy to come to fruition. He was actually a hero doing what needed to be done" cope.

>>25432766
Nobody cares what you want. George wrote Rhaegar as a tragic hero who saved the world when he impregnated Lyanna, but he also helped spark a war that killed thousands of people, including himself and most of his family.

It's a fundamental part of the mythos of the franchise, if you don't it you don't really like A Song of Ice and Fire so I'd suggest reading something else.

>>25432800
>saved the world when he impregnated Lyanna
Proof?

>>25432800
>if you don't it you don't really like A Song of Ice and Fire so I'd suggest reading something else.
Neither you or I have much of a fucking choice at this point, given it would be a miracle if we even get the next book.

>>25432800
>saved the world when he impregnated Lyanna
Jon is dead though and the walkers are still coming

>>25432800
>George wrote Rhaegar as a tragic hero who saved the world when he impregnated Lyanna,
...
looking at the show..they could have just hired a Faceless Man to gank the Night King.

>Aerys knows about Rhaegar’s plans and has a confrontation with him where he literally offers his neck and tells him to kill him. After Rhaegar doesn’t, Aerys makes fun of him and calls him a coward.
kek

>>25432219
The Targs should thank him, he spared them the embarrassment of finding out that Elia's children weren't even Rhaegar's.

>>25432176
>The only thing which really changes by revelation is that Elia didn't have a problem at all because all Dornishwomen are sluts, apparently.
Preston had this idea iirc. he also said Ashara was fucking Brandon because why would liberal Dornish wo- WHORE be attracted to a beta like Ned inatead of an Alpha.
he got the Jon being Brandon and Ashara's kid wrong. Dany's birth too.

>>25432457
but he IS evil. he embezzeled money from the throne and was planning a coup. Aerys did nothing wrong.

>>25432457
To claim that Rhaegar is a good person is to claim that Aerys did something evil.

>>25432144
>the old POS will die before finishing the books because he cannot come up with a different ending from the TV show (which people hated) and is now panicking.
I gave up and gave away all my books

>>25422198
>>Probably realises WoW and ADoS aren't enough to finish it all, probably needs a third book (ATfW)
ATfW? An 8th book? What's ATfW? "A Throne for Winter"?
Wouldn't it be easier for GRRM to make TWoW and ADoS 2400 pages long and release them in two volumes like ADwD and ASoS?

>>25433165
It’s A Time for Wolves. The original working title for Dream of Spring before George changed it.

>>25433165
he should just cut the number of POV characters, release just the core character POVs and trickle the rest out over time even if info is missing. write as much as you can about the other POV characters and let someone else finish it after you die, win/win. you get to "complete" your series, you have plausible deniability about the quality because "well there was just so much i couldn't finish it all, someone else will have to!" and that person gets the blame for those chapters sucking or having controversial revelations like this play does.

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>not canon

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEK

https://westeros.org/Features/Entry/A_Note_on_The_Mad_King_and_Canon

>>25433222
Why are you posting a fan blog as if that's an authoritative statement?

>>25433243
>fan blog
It’s Elio and Linda, co writers to the companion books and assistants to George. They probably are closer to knowing what’s canon and what isn’t aside from George himself.

>>25432157
>rejected the bisexual retarded turboslut and got the busty redhead instead
Ned won

>>25433222
The play is George's way of admitting Winds is never coming out, all the big reveals in it are what would be shown in that.

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Genuine question, what was the exact goal of the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion?
Did they just want a lot of autonomy and basically no taxes, did they want to replace Casterly Rock as the Western capital, did they want to create a breakaway kingdom in the Northern Westerlands?
Would any of these options have been accepted by the Iron Throne even if they had repelled the Lannister army?

>>25433065
>I gave up and gave away all my books
giwtwm

>>25433435
it wasn't really a rebellion. they refused to pay and wanted forgiveness of their debts because they believed Tywin's father would cuck but Tywin himself didn't

>>25433274
>It’s Elio and Linda, co writers to the companion books and assistants to George.
Elio is a retard, though. Also, he hasn't worked with George for many years.

>"Some parts of the play are canon, and some parts are not, but, of course, I won't tell you which is which lmao"
That post is worthless.

>>25433485
>>"Some parts of the play are canon, and some parts are not, but, of course, I won't tell you which is which lmao"
they can be puzzled out with collaborative info from the source material

Why does Aerys hate the Dornish when his great grandmother was a Dayne and his great great grandmother was a Martell?

>>25433529
Mad people aren’t known for their logic.

>>25433529
he hates the Dornish BECAUSE his great grandmother was a Dayne and his great great grandmother was a Martell

>>25433529
all the nobles are giga mutted, the so called """""targaryens"""""
daenerys is like 48% blackwood and like 12% targ or some shit
he identifies with being a targ because he has the features and that's his name, he doesn't care about some distant grandmothers he's never met

>>25433274
Its a fan blog, stop being a cretin

>>25433274
>and assistants to George
They collaborated on TWOIAF and wrote the shitty Rise of the Dragon cashgrab, but they aren't his assistants. Gurm's actual assistants are his tranny "minions" who literally live with him. Elio has said in the past that he is "as much in the dark" about TWOW etc. as everyone else. He doesn't know shit.

>>25432186
how does this pic change anything??

>>25433222
yeah obviously some parts are canon (duh) it's which parts are those is the question

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Reposting the link to /lit/'s Convoluted Schizophrenic K’dath theory in case anyone missed it. I won't post the link again. Hope the anons who read it enjoyed and found some connections I made interesting
>https://gofile(dot)io/d/ct6HNF

>>25433465
Refusing to pay debts/taxes to your lord is insubordination

What keeps you attached to this decaying franchise? Why are you still here?

>>25433699
shitposting, I stopped caring about the series itself before even finishing ADWD

>>25433699
I expect to get new material when Gurm croaks in a couple of years.

>>25433699
There are two ASOIAF related tv shows airing at the moment. By which standard is this franchise decaying

>>25433699
Got a better book series to suggest?

>>25433727
>two shoes
One that is shit, and nearly done, and the other that is also an incomplete series. Great work Geroge...

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>>25433737
Malazan

>>25432144
is that 2hollis?

>>25433741
so not decaying then
Is Lotr decying franchise as well? Is Star Wars, Marvel? What is not decaying franchise?

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>>25433751
>Is Lotr decying franchise as well
based on the rings of power and the hunt for gollum, yes.

>>25433744
Switching a polarising book series with an even more polarising book series sounds a bit like a Hodor move to me

>>25433751
>Is Lotr decying franchise as well? Is Star Wars, Marvel?
Yes famouslyt all three of these ips are dead horses getting beaten by braindead movie productions.
What is not decaying franchise?
Dune. ASOAIF will also join this list if/when grrm release any other books, either dunk and egg or Winds or the second history world book

>>25433647
>I won't post the link again.
dont make me save this shit nigga i havent read the books yet

I gotta say, it is a surreal feeling when you enjoy a work and think 'wow, it did everything right', and then you look at the fans and realize they are almost all writhing in pain screaming it 'did everything wrong' over and over. It is nice to enjoy the seethe for a bit, but then it kinda becomes lonely because you realize other fans are just on a completely different wavelength than you, and there is no commonality. I mean, I never respected fandoms in the first place, but it means there is no one to talk to about it. Not talking to others could be a good thing too though I guess.

>>25433807
not sure what books you're talking about? asoiaf is a circlejerk aside from the play and theories are pretty consolidated for the most part if you're talking about themes, the books arent finished, you're just a retard.

>>25433807
How can you possibly say he did everything right if the books are all but guaranteed not to be finished?
The ending is fundamental to judge the global plot quality

>>25433805
>havent read the books yet
>Is posting in the grrm general
wtf. I'll post it again if anyone directly asks for it but I won't like spam threads with my headcanon and theories because that would just annoy people.

WHY do these changes piss you off when it’s making Redditor women SEETHE like crazy? LMAO.

Thank you George.

GoT really is like Elden Ring. It’s full of Female Moments. Be it Lyanna or Daenerys or Rhaella. Kek.

>>25433647
Squishers??

>>25433807
I’ve always warned people that this would happen lol. George is making religion. He is baiting people into coming up with their own religiously believed theories of the insane sort. He took TOO long to finish his books, and how people have made cults around their theories.

When Winds releases it will be the end of an era. People won’t be able to stand that their insane theorizing led to nothing. They end up enjoying something that isn’t even there. That they made in their own head.

>>25433906
it's what happens to every long running story with mystery baiting, you should have seen what the Harry Potter fandom was like before the final books came out, or One Piece today

>>25433906
Yup. They’ll regret ever wanting Winds to release. The theorizing is what’s fun. Not the revelation.

Too bad GoT fans are overwhelmingly stupid and can’t actually accept that what makes GoT great is the mystery, and the unsolved.

>>25433915
>Too bad GoT fans are overwhelmingly stupid and can’t actually accept that what makes GoT great is the mystery, and the unsolved.
Yeah the wikification of this franchise by both fans and George is ruining it. It feels like EVERYTHING needs to be explained down to the finest detail and minute

>>25433915
Maybe somebody should have told George that before he made a play about revealing everything

>>25433948
It was going to be more clarified at some point. Eventually. The idea that a fifteen year old girl would be seduced by a Prince Charming isn’t really far fetched. It’s a modern assumption that girls don’t have Disney-like thoughts about marriage until they turn eighteen.

>>25433915
The revelation is fun if you don't become married to the theorizing. Theorizing is unsatisfactory to me, because it is ultimately impotent. What the ASOIAF fandom is suffering from is an illness and it is very far from artistic.

>>25432726
>It's especially weird because he did a great job with Brienne being a warrior who can kick men's assess all the time: she is also a near 7-foot-tall, absolute freak of nature who is ugly as fuck and so has nothing to do but train at arms.
His coomerism clouds his mind. He wrote a great deconstruction of le hot warrior woman trope, but he also still thinks that warrior women are super hot, so he just couldn't help playing the trope completely straight with Asha, Val, Alys Blackwood etc.

theory crafting is fun but you shouldn't invest your ego into it and get butthurt when proven incorrect

>>25433954
Some of it maybe, but not all of it, and I think we were past the tipping point of the majority accepting nothing more was every going to come out of George, and this looks like it was tailor made to make some people mad

>>25433974
>this looks like it was tailor made to make some people mad
it wasn't, you're just mad because your head cannons were wrong

>>25433974
Woman spotted. Get off my website.

>>25433974
Woman spotted. Get off this anon's >>25433986 website

>>25433751
>Star Wars
yes Star Wars is famously a dying Iol. the IP owner refuses to change course or admit what they've done wrong and keep doubling, tripling down. no one gives a fuck about it anymore except for childless middle aged women who view it as a "victory" over men by tearing down yet another male-oriented media property.

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>>25433807
Yeah, it's amazing how all these fanfic ao3 chicks are up in arms because of the whole Rhaegar Lyanna relation. Like if you do read fanfics and use words like Snowstorm and Rhaelya (terms, which btw I didnt hear until yesterday and have been into asoiaf since 2016 like any normie), you should assume that what you think about the story and what you think will happen will most probably not happen.
The only thing a bit weird with the paly is Elia, and as new information comes out it turns out that she wasnt that ok with it.
Wtf is so amazing that Rhaegar was a good guy and Lyanna went crazier than him with the prophecies, why do you think Ned is so skeptic about the unnatural and signs??? Look at how he found her, look at the scene, with her clutching the roses and being delirious from the fever, here George most likely took inspiration from Faust with Lyanna being Gretchen, and equally as mad towards the end of her life(a dozen parallels here).
What I am scared most of now is that George will change his story, I am deathly scared of that, ever since end of GoT and peoppe not liking King Bran, as if Bran isnt top 3 characters with Jon and Dany in the books, I want George's story, not the story that will make happy all the loser foids who got into it at 25 and now are 35 with no children and in some lesbian relationship with their loser foids bff.
All the theory people like me seem to be happy, the play didnt reveal almost nothing new, but there is this very loud group of fanon idiots qho seem to not be able to read between the lines of the first chapters of A Gamr of Thrones, and their potential influence scares me.

>>25434047
the play pretty much confirmed GRRM won't change his mind about the fundamental parts of the story, it's true to what he conceived in the 90s

>>25433906
this is basically what happened to Metal Gear on a smaller scale. to this day there are retards who are buttmad that Kojima didn't make Venom Snake into Solidus or Chico or Frank Jaeger or whatever retarded fan theory they get invested in on youtube. so anytime he comes out with something new they seethe that he's he's "a hack" "overrated" etc not as a genuine opinion they hold but just as cope because they're upset he didn't make their fan theory canon like he's reading their comments and would genuinely reconsider the story for MGSV lol

>>25434047
>Yeah, it's amazing how all these fanfic ao3 chicks are up in arms because of the whole Rhaegar Lyanna relation.
my favorite part about it imo, the female fiction police are seething that they can't socially shame the ages of the female characters up because it's "icky" even though it makes complete sense for the setting. stupid cunts have made every media franchise into boring HR-approved slop.

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>>25434051
till the story isnt finished I ll be worried. people do think he is changing the future of the story because of the little things the end of GoT has in common with the series. consider the fact that in the past 15 years he has increasingly been surrounded by blue haired liberals type, look at the caricature of the minion who posted his penultimate notablog, some anon said his businesses in SantaFe are run by trannies.
George can now just change the story a bit and tell us that
Could you imagine the meltdown if Preston's version of Lemongate is true and Dany is a bastard dragonseed? People are crying because of the most basic of R+L=J version, could you imagine if Dany wasnt a legitimate Targaryen?
Dont you think this kind of reaction from fans makes him doubtful?

>>25434062
>Dont you think this kind of reaction from fans makes him doubtful?
No not really, GRRM seems very stubborn about doing what he wants and the play mostly confirms he won't change his mind

The real danger is after he dies and his estate and publishers hire some industry guy who will write a politically correct ending

Daenerys red door and lemon tree are either
1) The Tower of Joy. She was taken there before being spirited away by Varys and witnessed Ned dueling Arthur and whoever Lyanna gave birth too
2) Starfall. This one I feel more likely. I think that she would've faired much better there being housed for safety until the heat from Robert's Rebellion died off. My personal headcanon for how she got out is that Varys bribed whoever was keeping her safe so there was a traitor who sold her out but that just leaves the question of who. GRRM is also setting up the Daynes to play a bigger role in the end game. Daenerys going back to Starfall could reveal a lot more of their history and motives

Miquella raped Radahn.

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> Literally the only people who hate what the play revealed are women crying “misogyny!”
Amazing

>>25433165
We both know we wouldn't get the second volume.

>>25434144
i don't think that's true but culture warriors suck the oxygen out of everything so all the nerds complaining about pedantic story details are being drowned out by all the histrionic shrieking foids OH MY HECKING SCIENCE A FICTIONAL 14 YEAR OLD GIRL IS HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITH A FICTIONAL ADULT MAN I AM LITERALLY BEING HELD DOWN AND GANGBAGNED RIGHT NOW AGAINST MY WILL

>>25434166
it's not just Lyanna they're also upset because Rhaella was crazy, Ashara was a slut and Elia was a schemer and it's misogyny to give female characters negative traits or whatever

>>25434185
>Rhaella was crazy, and Elia was a schemer
Funny how both characters in the books are just plot devices who exist to be accessories to their husbands and no one bats an eye but give them some focus where they are more than just victims and suddenly the story is problematic.

>>25434185
i've actually seen more mixed discourse on it, some people seem to like that Rhaella was crazy because in their view it was a direct result of Aerys abusing her, and that Dany being her girlboss curse against patriarchy has potential nuance that might be better than how the TV show handled it. i also saw a lot of people like Elia as a schemer, because to them giving women more agency in westoros/politics=good.

>>25434185
Criticism of all 3 of those characters rings true to me.

One, they completely contradict the accounts we receive in the novels. Was Barristan Selmy a fucking retard? Did Jamie Lannister lie to himself in the privacy of his own mind? Why the FUCK is Edric Dayne named after Eddard Stark?

Two, they make the universe less interesting. Elia was just like every other Martell. Ashara Dayne's entire reputation was basically made up. Rhaella was just the four hundredth crazy Targ.

Remember when female viewers seethed at the Sansa rape scene. Even though it was literally Ramsay Bolton who she was married to.

Show only fans would not survive reading the books.

>>25434229
Why the FUCK is Edric Dayne named after Eddard Stark?
He returned their magic sword when he didn't have to, it's a sign of respect both ways
>Elia was just like every other Martell.
What were you expecting? The woman who married the crown prince to not have an interest in politics?
>Ashara Dayne's entire reputation was basically made up.
Not really, it's true she got with a Stark and killed herself

Your critique are pedantic

>>25434252
Your complete avoidance of Rhaella kind of wins the argument for me lol

>>25434268
Rhaella is a more interesting character now, I prefer it

It will probably be coming out in a few weeks or a month, but the book or books, I should say, are done.

The thing he’s submitted 2000 pages, which for a paperback what most of are going to buy and fuck or eat, basically collapses at that page count, they want him to split into two books and used some old title he was saving for the last book but dropped, he’s getting really pissy about it apparently, demanding it has to be 7 books, and he won't publish it split so who knows when it actually comes out. That's all I know about the book.

>>25434305
What's the point of making these posts, what do you get out of lying

>>25434305
Lol. Lmao even
Winds is never coming out retard

It came out yesterday, you just weren't paying attention

>>25434311
I've also seen it on the Dark Web

https://youtu.be/Tx-7NNFkHdU?t=9m24s
FUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK!!!!!! ITS TOO CONVINCING LEMONGATE HAS TO BE REAL AND IM NOT EVEN A THEORY HEAD THIS ONE IS JUST TOO CONVINCING FUAAAAAAAAARK!!!!

>>25434305
>has to be 7 books
Just name them book 7A and book 7B

>>25434231
That was like uuuuh the only time something really bad happened to a female character in the show? Meanwhile every other male character is super expendable and when they get literally tortured it's funny and memeworthy

https://youtu.be/79v-rGEc0zc?t=3m5s
>viserys was too op to be allowed to live
notice how stupid or misguided most of the main pov characters have tk be besides tyrion (and even he has his moments) and realize that viserys couldn't have been allowed to live for this story

>>25434305
This is true, they demanded he split it but he won’t do it so he’s giving them dunk 4 to hold them over til they find a way to publish it as one book

>>25433647
Saving the file, will read when not so busy and give thoughts

>>25434451
Why can’t they just make the font smaller? Easy fucking fix

>>25434470
Or just keep the font length and make it the size of a coffee table book

>>25434451
What’s the issue with splitting the book? He already did it with AFFC/ADWD

>>25434505
It has to be 7. It just has to

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Gayest retcon of all time.

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OH WHAT THE FUCK

>>25434707
Agreed. Only someone who drank the Targaryen "We are the ubermensch" kool-aid would think this was a good idea.

>>25434761
I think it fits because Targaryens do think they are ubermensch and would have the hubris to think they are the chosen ones. It looks like dany is the Antichrist though so it’s not like George is vindicating them

I think George decided to not bring Jon back and then kinda regretted it but still made it work and that’s what took so long

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>>25434752
HOLY KEK it's like a 4chan meme

>>25433899
I quite liked the idea of Ashara and Ned having fallen in love with each other, helped by Brandon wing manning for his beloved little brother, only for Ned to forsake any future with her in order to fulfill the duties thrust upon him as a result of the Rebellion, adding one more thing lost to Ned. Ashara being an absolute fucking tramp and Brandon knocking her up puts something of a damper on that unfortunately, although Ned hitting her with the "Begone thot, I'm saving myself for marriage" is pretty fucking based.

>>25433967
Is Val a skilled warrior? I don't remember her ever being mentioned as a fighter, but I'll be honest she's not a character that much sticks out in my mind other than her consistently signaling to Jon that she's DTF, only for him to not pick up on it due to being distracted by homolust for Satin.

>>25433900
Georges term/name for his deep ones. There's quite a few mentions of squishers throughout the books

>>25434856
>her consistently signaling to Jon that she's DTF
Am a retard I don't remember that at all. At best she'd tolerate a political and never consumated marriage to Jon to help the wildlings get establishes south of the wall. I remember Jon thinking he'd have no chance with her

so. are you telling me the complicated political web of strategic marriages and guardianships, (THE HEIR TO THE STORMLANDS WAS FOSTERED IN THE EYRIE FFS), was just a coincidence? Wasn't Lysa Tully considered a potential bethrothal for Jaime? how do you dress this up as not a concentrated political bloc

>>25434891
>Am a retard
Well at least you're self aware.

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Reminder that it’s canon women spread their legs for pic related. This is why some people around the coasts have webbed hands and feet. Stupid sexy Squishers. The females aren’t interested in human men either.

>>25434963
Makes sense. Women did goon over The Shape of Water.

>>25434981
Why do women want to fuck literal monsters? Are they really so different from nerdish men on the internet?

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>>25434752
Just like I pictured him in the books

>>25435066
I'm not eloquent enough to explain it all that well, but it probably has something to do with evolutionary psychology making women fantasize about a wild dangerous man that only they can tame.

>>25433745
lmao he do be lookin like big hollis

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>>25432186

Still not canon.

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>>25432219

>>25433222

So... not canon.

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>>25434752

>>25434752
>Howland Reed

lol

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>Elia was a vicious schemer plotting to sack KL
>tfw Ser Gregor the Good is canon

Does GRRM hate women because some 12 year old girl laughed at his fat autistic ass in middle school? That's why all the female characters he writes are disloyal slut harlots and/or snobby delusional retards except for Lyanna and Arya who are his designated fantasy tomboy gfs?

>>25435259
His self insert gary stus are all shy nerdy sensitive high iq guys who get the waifu over the big dumb jock

>>25435259
>all the female characters
it's not all of them lol just the highborn ones because they're literally royalty, they're snobs, they live in a completely different world than us

>>25434752
I think colorblind casting is fine because it's very hard to find people who will fit every role in the limited theater community who can also put on a powerhouse performance every night. So I don't in concept mind the actor not resembling the character. It goes back to ancient Greece.

But damn are literally 60% of the theater actors in England black? 9/20 actors here have African ancestry despite only 3% of the entire UK being black and another 1% mixed black/white.

>>25435307
it's probably harder to find work as a white actor, the arts really want to 'decolonize' medieval fantasy

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>>25435307
>it's very hard to find people who will fit every role in the limited theater community

Nonsense, there are literally dozens of actors who are just as talented and who actually look like the characters.

>>25434752
>>25434835
It's an english play, there's loads of black theatre kids over there its a plot to have more blacks vs whites to 'decolonise medieval fantasy' as this moron said
>>25435309
>>25435320
Are there? Are you connected to the english playwright scene and know about a the dozens of actors who were deliberatly passed over to have a black women instead.
Maybe just maybe there's different plays going on limiting availability of actors and there's isn't actually dozens of non working white women to choose from.

>>25435323
England is not Africa.

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>>25434752
>DORNE ES BLANCO!!!
>LOS STEPSTONES SON DORNISH!

>>25435325
It is though

>>25435325
Correct, England is England and there are many ethnic africans living there. Some go into theatre work and are so good at their job they get to be major characters in big ip plays like game of thrones first ever play

>>25434707
what was the retcon (I'm only on book 3)

>>25435355
The conquest being done because of muh visions instead of the conqueror just wanting to conquer. It's something that was introduced in house of the dragon and part of George's Targ obsession on making them even more special than they already are.

>>25435309
theater has been doing race swap casting for longer than they have been doing medieval fantasy plays, tv and film wokeness is barely catching up to theatre

>Brienne
>Hodor
>Small Paul
>possibly the Cleganes
Is every tall, strong freak a descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall?

>>25434856
>Is Val a skilled warrior? I don't remember her ever being mentioned as a fighter
She hasn't fought on-screen, but I definitely remember he rbeing described as a "warrior princess" or something like that.

>>25435066
>Why do women want to fuck literal monsters? Are they really so different from nerdish men on the internet?
Women get turned on by strength (aka a man's ability to dominate other men in some way). That's why a scary monster that can tear you apart is attractive to them.

As a WOMAN I am HAPPY that Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar. It feels like there is non-stop rape in the books, so to know it was consensual at least feels better. As for Elia and such, I am getting a bit sick of how many le scheming politics whore characters we have now, they feel pretty flat (aside from Cersei). But I guess I will reserve full judgement until I go to see the play myself.

Look him going full JK Rowling and shitting on his own work with retcons was expected. It's something authors like to do as they approach death. What makes it sting is that he never fucking finished any of his series so we get the shitty retcons but not the conclusion. Truly the most cucked fanbase of all time

>>25434904
>was just a coincidence?
That's the opposite of what you are meant to take away from the play. Rickard Stark was definitely a schemer and part of the tragedy of the whole thing was that both Rhaegar and his allies and STAB were attempting to overthrow Aerys and both plans went awry when they came into contact with each other at Harrenhal

>>25435457
>Truly the most cucked fanbase of all time
I dunno. The Kingkiller chronicles fandom kept paying a guy to release a chapter of the third book which he never did lmao

>>25435335
>ethnic Africans
Ethnicities and continents are wholly different things

>>25435259
back in the 70s a girl GRRM was dating left him for his best friend and he's been seething about it ever since (I'm not joking)

Can you imagine how bad the meltdowns will be if TWOW finally releases? The play barely had anything unexpected in it and incels still lost their shit over it

>>25435439
>As a WOMAN
Post tits

>>25435667
Bait or tranny, call it

Catelyn won, Ashara lost, bigly

>>25435667
Stan culture has been a disaster for the fandom.

>>25435667
Only ones crashing out is feminists

>>25434279
Nah, it’s a retcon.

OG era
Post-A Feast for Crows
Post-HBO's Game of Thrones
Pre-The Winds of Winter
Post-A Dream of Spring

I split the fandom into five distinct eras. Which ones do you hail from? I got into this series post-Feast period-pre HBO show

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Please make this the OP image of the next thread

>>25436016
I wish the books were comin instead

>>25433899
>I like X because it made Y angry!
How shallow.

>>25436006
there's the bookfag era 1996-2011
there's the showfag era 2011-2019
there's the Winds Never Ever era 2019-present
there will be the Dream Never Ever era (unknown)-(unknown)
there might be a Post-Dream Era (unknown)-(unknown)

The 1200 unpublished pages of Winds WILL be published, but more and more likely posthumously.

The only thing I don’t like about the new lore is rhaegar having Robert almost beaten and then saved by deus ex vision. And not even a huge Robert fan, I just liked the subversive realism of the protagonist fantasy prince with assumed plot armor dying in the climactic duel with the “antagonist” simply because he was stronger. Now it’s much more like a generic fantasy story where the underdog WOULD have davided Goliath if not for divine intervention. Not as cool

>>25436006
>I got into this series post-Feast period-pre HBO show
same, like most people I imagine. I watched S1, was hooked, read the books and have been depressed ever since.

>>25436053
It’s so antithetical to George’s grounded ethos, it misses the mark on what makes Asoiaf good to the extent that it makes me think it HAD to have come from a rhaegar stan robert hater writer who took liberties. How do you miss the point so hard? It actually makes me like rhaegar less now, and I used to find him tragic

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>>25436033
There will be no eras once George dies. This series legacy will tank immediately. It will be incomplete, there will be no true resolution, the HBO milking of the series will reach a point where it can't do anything more and it will not attract new readers because it's legacy will be one of neglect and waste.

George doesn't have a Christopher Tolkien either to pick up the pieces and finish the work if he dies either. Whatever he has written will be bundled up, sold for a quick buck, sell quickly and then it will be forgotten about. And he has no one to blame but himself.

>>25436053
>Bobby wins because rhaegar loses internet connection mid fight
This play is just another instance of George doubling down on being a hack.

>>25436053
100% this part is fanfiction. George at his worst is still better than this.

Wait. Are women mad that Lyanna is an underage girl who willingly wanted to suck the dick of a grown adult man who already had kids?

>>25434752
LOL

Can someone give me or send me to a comprehensive rundown of all the “canon” spoilers

>“R-Rhaegar totally would have won if not for his spontaneous blue balling vision”

Um. Are Targkeks just mad or something? Have they got the Targ madness?

>>25436143
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1v9blx0/spoilers_extended_do_not_open_if_you_dont_want/

>>25436148
Shut the fuck up you fucking faggot

>>25436134
yes, ao3, the fiction police, #MeToo etc. all hate that it was consensual. if you show consensual underage sex/relationships in books that's literally rape culture and you're encouraging it in real life too. of course they don't think George encourages genocide or violence or tyranny though and won't hold him to that standard there, just on this one specific issue.

basically all fiction MUST adhere to neo-woke rules about consent and age gaps or it's rape. even though it factually was consensual it was rape and the play doesn't reflect on that or moralize about it or explicitly condone it and explain to the audience that it's bad so GRRM MUST support 14 year old girls getting married.

>>25436163
LOL triggered Targkek spotted

Do modern women act like underage girls didn’t swoon for the adult Beatles, or David Bowie, etc

I like when characters tragic fates are the results of their decisions and actions. When you make it so fates are ordained by divine intervention it takes away the human element of the story and kinda ruins the whole thing. Human heart in conflict with itself? Naw, prophecy and visions and puppet strings. Blech.

Robert ALWAYS would have owned Rhaetard (Rhaegay, etc) at the Trident you guys

>>25436168
yes, they act like human beings are completely and utterly sexless and do not feel any kind of desire until they magically turn 18. implying that human beings can feel sexual desire under the age of 18 is WEIRD THAT'S SO WEIRD YOU WOULD WANT THE BOOK TO BE ABOUT THAT YOU'RE TOTALLY A CREEP ANON WHY CAN'T ALL MEDIA JUST BE SAFE AND STERILE LIKE MARVEL MOVIES WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMATIC ICKY CONTENT THAT OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT JUDGE ME FOR READING????

that's actually another thing too lol normies are incapable of just enjoying things, they have to outsource approval of that thing to some hypothetical imagined majority who would judge them or think they're weird for reading/enjoying something with icky problematic content like a violent misogynist world having misogynist themes

>>25436075

I think I discovered this series when I was wanting something else to read to read while I was waiting for the next Harry Potter book to come out and I was a little burnt out on binging Stephen King works. So this must've been sometime in 06 or 07

>>25436186
>sorry but you can only enjoy things in this very narrow prescribed way. engaging in media in any other way is wrong.
so glad this fucker is dead

>>25436193
Ebert was a massive dick. A huge asshole. But he was based. Too based. The universe seethed so hard at him it had to punch him in the throat with cancer.

>>25434891
She teases Jon about gelding him if he sneaks into her bed and makes sure he wasn't the one to kill Jarl. She's definitely DTF. And why not? He's an accomplished warrior, a lord commander, has a fucking direwolf as a pet and a Valyrian steel sword.

So the Old Gods can do cool stuff, Rhllor as well, but the Seven just don't do shit. Why did the Andals come up with such a gay, useless religion?

Do you think Rhaegar had an aesthetic penis. Do you think he trimmed it? Was it cut or uncut? Does circumcision even exist in asoiaf?

>>25436220
I think it’s meant to point to the fact that the Faith of the Seven doesn’t invest all that much into sacrifice or anything like that. It’s a very lazy religion.

>>25436220
After season 8 when hbo was workshopping prequels they let it slip that the seven were real once, like an avengers group of 7 superhumans that went around doing magical shit and helping people. They were probably aliens or powerful wizards or some shit that once had actual power

>>25436223
>Does circumcision even exist in asoiaf?
There are no Jews, so probably not.

>>25436233
Nah. They were just seven influential figures. No powers or anything like that.

>>25436233
HBO also “let it slip” that Valyria was just like multicultural progressive America. I’d refrain from listening to them.

>>25436237
I’m sure they at least had Glass candles and other tricks

>>25436235
The thousand islanders practice circumcision, is George saying the squisher rapists are the Jews of Asoiaf?

>>25436239
They had the trick of nephilimic knowledge and technology as noble blooded survivors of the cataclysm, and helped Essos rebuild

>>25436239
If you want to assume that the Seven were real people/wizards, then they likely had their own variants. Greenseers, glass candles and shade of the evening (possibly/probably bolstered by the presence of the Undying) all emulate similar powers. They just take different form or shape, or method. The Rhoynar probably looked to the waters of their mother river the same way the red priests look to the fires of their god, or received dreams from her like the old gods, etc.

>>25436248
> The thousand islanders practice circumcision
> is George saying the squisher rapists are the Jews of Asoiaf
I was about to mention this LMAO
I like you anon

There was no glorious and magical pre-Valyrian human empire or civilization btw

Humans were slaves, subjects, breeding stock, etc, to what came before

>>25436268
The “true men” were slaves yes, these would be the hairy men, the neanderthal natives of the planet. But as seen with the god on earth story there were celestial men that came from the stars and made kingdoms as well. These are the tall fair haired alien pale people, asoiafs annunaki. The offspring of the hairy men and annunaki were nephilim, in Asoiaf these are the andals and tall men from sarnor and the asshai and the qaathi. The seven came from the stars

>>25436268
Empire of the Dawn?
>>25436248
That's too realistic for a fantasy setting, what a hack

>>25436280
The Empire of the Dawn is poking at irl China’s claims of a glorious pre historic empire of god kings and such. In this case it is Yi Ti’s (not!China’s) prehistory.

But, all the pre Valyrian ruins that are seen around the world are more disturbingly NOT human. All the evidence points to something that isn’t human, and from the sea. This also mirrors mentions of ancient sea sages or sea peoples that came to the shore to teach men more sophisticated things before returning to the ocean. This is a lot like the Grey King and Garth Greenhand.

George is obviously trying to fool the reader. The past is LITERALLY fishy. It’s FISHY as in something isn’t right. It’s also literally fishy in that’s it’s probably fish people. The Fisher Queens may have been fish people. Idk.

>>25436268
Ghis predates Valyria

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>>25436292
>George is obviously trying to fool the reader. The past is LITERALLY fishy. It’s FISHY as in something isn’t right.
that seems more like the kind of thing David Lynch would have done

>>25436292
The Empire of the Dawn could also reference the ancestors of the Valyrians who built Asshai before shit went down, Dany sees the gemstone emperor's in a vision after all. But yes, rapey fish people are definitely a thing.

>>25436093
People like you said the same thing when GoT ended "George's legacy is ruined and everyone will immediately forget about it"

If anything, I think George dying before finishing will immortalize A Song of Ice and Fire because people will forever theorize and discuss what the ending *should* have been.

>>25436298
Yeah and it was a sandy ass buttcrack. Not a glorious magical civilization.

>>25436303
> The Empire of the Dawn could also reference the ancestors of the Valyrians who built Asshai before shit went down
You mean one of the most fishy and inhuman places around? It’s obviously a reference to Conan, just like Stygai up river from it.

It’s obviously based on Conan. Robert E. Howard's works have been a big influence on GRRM, and he contributed to Lovecraft mythos, which influenced GRRM strongly as well.

A popular location in the setting of Conan is a country called Stygia, bordered by the River Styx, where magic, human sacrifices, and slavery are common, and most people worship the chaos serpent god Set.

An evil, abandoned city in Stygia called Pteion is described to Conan by a priest:
> "Know, Conan, that Pteion is a ruined city of immemorial antiquity, in eastern Stygia just across the Taian border. Chronicles declare it was founded by the Acheronians, thousands of years ago; but legend, which may well be true, says that they were only inheritors, and the true builders were the serpent men of prehistoric Valusia. For untold centuries it was the seat of black magicians and thus of terror; but during the Seventh Dynasty of Stygia, the desert encroached until Pteion was abandoned and the wizards moved their center to Khemi. Uncontrolled, the foul beings they raised or created have haunted the ruins ever since, and no man goes near.”

Both are abandoned, unimaginablely ancient cities built by a fishy/reptilian race eons ago, which became home to evil sorcerers, until the climate changed and overwhelmed the city until it was no longer habitable, and now no soul will go near it... quite a lot of similarities. Oh, and an altar to Cthulhu is found in Pteion as well.

I find it bizarre that people think that the Empire of the Dawn as a human empire when it clearly wasn’t. It’s clearly based on the inhuman. It may have even been underwater before the sea levels lowered over the eons.

>>25436303
>Dany sees the gemstone emperor's in a vision after all
It’s a bit dubious if that was them. Or if it was merely symbolic. Probably the latter. Qarth is right beside Yi-Ti, and the Undying could have used the myth as an influencer.

>>25436324
also Atlantis in stuff in real life, there's a long history of cultures believing in the idea of a lost city under the water

>>25436324
Valyria and Acheron are also alike. Humans who mastered magic and took on the qualities of the serpentine ancients. Sort of like how the dragon lords have the blood of the dragon.

Essos is straight up Sword & Sorcery while Westeros is just straight up Mudcore lol

What disturbs me most is how simplistic the non human races are. The children of the forest don’t do much (use twigs and leaves for everything). The giants don’t do much (cave dwellers). Whoever built the oily black stone (even the fused stone variants) didn’t do much (it’s all blocky and unadorned).

https://youtu.be/QAGxy_ia_As
not gunna lie this video and another one of prestons theory videos almost singlehandedly put me off of ever reading asoiaf
the problem is whether i want to share why.
my problem isnt the tones of feminism, its that it doesnt actually seem to explore gender in any insightful way other than circularly referring back to itself. it doesnt actually analyze gender it characterizes it.
if it wasnt for the fact that preston probably understands george and his themes more than the average asoiaf theorizer you could say its just preston putting words in the book, but i wouldnt say so.
his war of the raven theory is a less politically contentious reason for why im less interested in the books and its something somebody here has already alluded to, they just explained the problem in a way i dont agree, that i dont feel like explaining myself right now

>>25436324
Yes the hyperborian age references are there but you need to go even further down the rabbit whole, George also pulls from the lemurian age and the Atlantean age lore, where celestial superhumans with colorful eyes ruled the first empires of man and had a glowing magic sword used to fight the lizard people

>>25436361
>the problem is whether i want to share why.
>that i dont feel like explaining myself right now
alright thanks for sharing

>>25436342
George is actually capable of some pretty crazy worldbuilding. The whole thing with his story is that magic was gone for a while but is returning, but he got so bogged down with the endless bloat of the political part of his story that he accidentally got himself labelled as a low fantasy author.

>>25436373
Wich might tie into anons shrike theory, he posits the empire of the dawn was the ancient enemy of the lizard people of the grey waste who worship the great weirwood ygg, their dragon king greenseer at its roots. The five forts protected the dawn empire from these evil lizard people. This fits in perfectly with the lemurian lore, where the colorful eyed og empire of man had a thousand year war against the dragon kings, a race of lizard people

>>25436373
Nah. It was never humans at the beginning. It was always gross aliens trying to look more beautiful by interbreeding with attractive primitives.

It's Stannis the mannis with the master plannis, come to take your castle and stick a sword up Bolton's annis

>>25436385
>good at worldbuilding
Yeah he proved this in Elden Ring too

>>25436395
Well I called them celestial superhumans, that’s just another word for alien. They could have eugenicized themselves to look like angels sure, that doesn’t break any lore

>>25436385
The worldbuilding in asoiaf is good only if you don't think about it too much.
In reality, all cultures seem to be made out of ridiculous and unrealistic stereotypes and there's little concern for any of the logistics regarding how this world actually works.

I mean ffs, Westeros is high medieval and they don't even have a fucking court system beyond the lords and kings?

>>25436432
>The worldbuilding in asoiaf is good only if you don't think about it too much.
that applies too all fictional worldbuilding

David Lightbringer is the worst thing to ever happen to the fandom

>>25436425
Ira Parker writing Raymon fossoway to say Targaryens are “Incestuous aliens” also hints at the valyrian types having a celestial origin, I think ira knows much and more about secret lore

>>25436440
I’ve never seen one of his videos, what did he do

>>25435439
Post tits with timestamp

>>25436440
that would be d&d tho

>>25436437
But not to the same degree.

In the show Tyrion is a miserable failure as Hand to Daenerys. In the books he will do a wonderful job as his reward is to rape and murder his sister. Evil, not incompetance.

That would be the ballsiest thing ever if George actually has Tyrion rape and kill Cersei

>>25436516
I want George to go back to his roots and write really dark shit.

>>25433647
Grey king, grey waste, the answer was in front of us the whole time. This is sick. Bloodless men being an evolutionary tactic against the bloodthirsty demon tree? Fuck yes. love the imagery of the winged men carrying the victims to the top branches of ygg like some fucked up valkyrie/valhalla. The burnt thorns of ygg being the soul drinking weapons of the proto ironborn is top tier fantasy too, love that. I wonder if that has anything to do with the “burning brands of old” that the ancient ironborn were said to carry. A burning brand is basically a torch, or burning stick of wood. The ironborn seem to have used both white wierwood as seen with galon white staff as well as a burnt blackened version of wierwood as seen with the burning brands and the black thorns. Maybe they figured out a new form of magic by burning wierwood for its living fire after it became a cultural practice of religious significance ever since the grey ash-king burnt the white wood of ygg.

I have a cool addition for the grey king taunting the storm god to set ygg on fire with lightning too. We know that cotf can control weather and send tsunamis and wind and storm. whenever a sailer gets close to the isle of faces the green men send wind to blow them off course. They also use the “hammer of the waters”, (Thor reference). The weather controlling wierwood net IS the storm god as men know it by. So just remember storm god = cotf wiernet weather manipulation

Now back to Hyperion. In Hyperion, there are two “gods” that arise from AI, a benevolent AI made up of interlinked human consciousness, and an evil AI that is more machine. The evil god builds the tree of pain, where the shryke impales its victims. The wierwood net of ygg is this evil god, and the other weirwood nets of interlinked cotf consciousness function as the benevolent god.

The grey king taunts the “storm god” to set Ygg on fire with lightning. How does one taunt the wierwood net? Could it be that the grey king simply…asked for help from another nearby wierwood net, like how the last hero sought the aid of the cotf for help against the walkers? And this turned into taunting because asking for help isn’t very badass. If so, the realm of the ifeauevron would be the most likely place to look for help.

>>25436581
Now I’m going to freestyle off of your theory a bit

I think it’s worth considering the black stone structures might be built by the lizard men or as I like to call them “dragon kings”, as that’s what lizard people are called in Conan (the dragonkings in Conan also built with black stone). The black stone is always associated with dragons, whether it be Valyria, or battle isle where it was said dragons once lived. The five forts are said to be demonic or godlike. I think it’s more likely they were built by the demonic tree worshipping dragonkings then the first empires of man, and after the defeat of the dragonkings, humans took over their ruins and history forgot their origins. I think after grey kings victory in the grey waste the last full blooded dragonkings fled across the sunset sea and founded battle isle as their last redoubt. And the grey king, like the fucking badass he is chased them across the sea to put an end to them once and for all. The famous battle at battle isle was this final skirmish of the millennia long war. The dragons that lived at battle isle were said to have been killed by the first Hightowers, and as hinted at with the ancient name “urrigon”, which is shared by the oldest Hightowers and the oldest ironborn, the first Hightowers and the first ironborn were one and the same.

I want to tie in Greyscale to this theory, wich seems to come about during events of mass death near bodies of water. Grey SCALE, scaly shrikes in the grey waste, the grey king who was said to have grey skin, argoth the grey giant who was said to also have grey skin and was connected to early Hightower lore and thus early ironborn lore. Garins curse on the dragon lords. there’s a theory there that might explain the true origin of greyscale that I don’t have the creativity to explore at this moment but maybe later

>>25436764
This is across the bone mountains right
Why does he look so white

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>>25432746
The show and shitty fanfiction blinded me. I'm sorry my king.

>>25436776
It’s like a Caucasia situation where Asians and caucasians were once distinct people but then interbred to make Turks and mongoloids and other eurasians. The jogos nghai and Dothraki are a mix of different people

Did the play keep in the part where the mad king shits his pants and squeals like a pig when Jaime kills him? If not then then it’s not canon, Jaime pretty clearly remembers that

The Five Forts were originally underwater you huge dumbasses.

Every single instance of oily black stone is by the coast or formerly submerged areas.

Inb4 “b-but fused black stone is totally different and mutually exclusive from oily black stone”

>>25436975
yeah, the entire grey waste was underwater, read the shrike theory

>>25436981
The ocean floor was raised to the surface to form a wasteland plateau like in Dagon

Preston just had a mega crashout.

if we are to assume that the seastone chair and the fused stone foundation of the hightower come the same people, then this implies that both types of black stone come from a shared origin

>>25437001
where when?

>>25436986
Through some volcanic activity, a portion of the ocean floor was raised to the surface, exposing ygg the underwater demon tree to the surface, its roots reaching deep into volcanic underground vaults, like hell itself. The fish people evolved into lizard people and impaled men on the thorns of ygg, nourishing it with the blood and souls of mortals.

>>25437015
Meds. Now.

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>>25436581
>How does one taunt the wierwood net? Could it be that the grey king simply…asked for help from another nearby wierwood net
I was proposing that all the weirwood nets are the same and all come from Ygg. Different weirwood nets would more easily explain the Others as the natives of one weirwoodnet being displaced from their tree (the heart of winter/ a frozen weirwood tree that looks like a giant ice spider).
>>25436582
I really need to read the Conan stuff, I know nothing about it other than the grey joy symbol was taken from it. If george took half as much inspiration from it as he did Lovecraft then they'd be a lot of obvious references to it I've missed.
> I think it’s more likely they were built by the demonic tree worshipping dragonkings then the first empires of man, and after the defeat of the dragonkings, humans took over their ruins and history forgot their origins.
Hmmm that is a good idea, makes sense to me why its so different to everything else. But then what were the dragon kings/ K'dth deep one lizardmen guarding aganist so far from Ygg?
>last full blooded dragonkings fled across the sunset sea and founded battle isle as their last redoubt.
>The dragons that lived at battle isle were said to have been killed by the first Hightowers, and as hinted at with the ancient name “urrigon”, which is shared by the oldest Hightowers and the oldest ironborn
This is all genius im 100% on board with that idea.
>Greyscale as well
Much pondering is yet to be done, will need to brush up on hightower lore.
>>25436388
> lizard people of the grey waste who worship the great weirwood ygg, their dragon king greenseer at its roots.
Dragon queen* nagga is explicitly female. Like the squisher queens I think deep ones despite being rapists might be matriarchal. In Shadow Over Innsmouth it was women deep ones breeding with the sailors for gold and fish, not dock whores being raped and bred as chatel slaves.

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>>25436979
Fused stone is made by dragons/ people who can control dragons to build stuff. Old Valyrias road network was made of fused stone.
Oily blackstone might be deep one stuff that suffered from a reverse Atlantis situation. The FIrst Men did not build Moat Cailin. Asshai is fucking huge with no known human empire there. David Lightbringer thinks Asshai was the captial of the Great Empire of Dawn which was a human empire, then the long night happend bad magic and the stone is transformed into Oilyblack stone. How Great Empire of the Dawn built Moat Cailin I have no idea, makes sense its squisher shit.
Also pic related for the Conan symbol that inspired the Greyjoys and thus the ironborn race and history. Any interesting things about whoever these guys are for shrike theory/general points?

You know maybe its not as schizo as it sounds. In asoiaf, vikings and lovecraft go hand in hand. Yggdrasil is from viking mythology, so add it to asoiaf and give it a lovecraft/drowned remix and what do you get? Ygg the lovecraftian underwater worldtree. Maybe anons are on to something

>>25437009
Check his chanmel

>>25437096
No I don’t want to

>>25437096
Oh the recent 2 hour video that released? Yeah I have that on my backlog for when I'm washing the dishes

>>25437102
Yeah, he just hates everything about it.

>>25437056
>Any interesting things about whoever these guys are for shrike theory/general points?
It might give more evidence of the protoshrykes fleeing the grey waste, and the grey king following their tail from across the sunset sea. The antillians were aquatic demon worshippers fleeing a cataclysm who sailed east across the ocean and found some islands off the western coast of a new continent (exactly like iron islands and Westeros), and sacrificed the natives to the black kraken of Atlantis. This would coincide with the protoshrykes fleeing the cataclysm of ygg burning, they would be the ones who brought sea stone chair, and this explains why the grey king never sat the sea stone chair but instead preferred the throne of yggs teeth. Because the grey king was the enemy of the people who used the sea stone chair. But over time cultural influences combine

>>25437126
>antillians were aquatic demon worshippers
This in itself is another strong piece of evidence that the raiders from the Grey Waste and K'dath are lizardmen and former Deep Ones.
>Protoshrykes fleeing the cataclysm of ygg burning
To knit pick the Ti-Ti have records from the Great Empire of the Dawn that the lion of night and his demons emerged in force from the Grey Waste during the Long Night. Perhaps some did flee but a lot of must have stayed behind in Essos and waged war on man. But Lizardmen fleeing to Westeros and the Grey King and co followed them to annihlate them will be added to the theory. It makes a lot of sense.
>why the grey king never sat the sea stone chair but instead preferred the throne of yggs teeth.
I never even noticed that or made that connection, knew the sea stone chair was for squisher sacrifice but that's so cool. George is very subtle with how his fantasy cultures bleed into each other.

>>25437024
>But then what were the dragon kings/ K'dth deep one lizardmen guarding aganist so far from Ygg?
Maybe they were guarding per se but served more as waycastles for headhunting raiders or border markers. A wall would be a better way to keep out people than 5 forts spaced out.

>>25437156
Weren’t guarding per se*

>>25437121
Well im watching it now and starting to see the seeds of a crash out with his "canon as a concept doesnt make sense" rant, of which i find his argument insufficient.

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>>25437156
>Waycastles for headhunting raiders
>Each is big enough for 10,000 men
That's a lot of fucking lizard rapist raiders fucking hell. How humans east of the Bone Mountains didn't just go extinct is anyone guess. But to push back aganist the idea, such brutal constant levels of raiding are never mentioned. Yi-Ti recall their construction to the specific Emperor of the Great Empire of the Dawn but no mention of great horrors of such raids at that scale.
Then again they say the God-On-Earth was the son of the Lion of Night, and the demons from the grey waste are said to BE the demons of the Lion of Night. Maybe the Great Empire of the Dawn was a squisher nightmare empire.
Civil war breaks out between the Deep Ones in Asshai, the captial of the Great Empire of the Dawn thats beneath the waves back then and the K'dath lizardmen men and thats why the Grey King and proto-Ironborn are so into deep one culture. They were the slave soliders of the aquatic deep ones who won the war aganist the desert dwelling lizardmen and their heretical worship of a demon tree and their undead seadragon greenseer queen instead of the Drowned God.
Asshai Deep Ones learnt the error of the Thousand Isle Deep Ones and having the slave rape population retain higher thinking makes them able to have a society and function to reave and sacrifice for you.

He's also being extremely pedantic with stuff like the choose your own destiny thing

https://youtu.be/hBI1nNC3JWM?t=31m45s
See, Preston is so comflicting, sometimes hes simply just right and based. This is a thing I barely saw anybody talk about, everybody was mad about their headcanons not being true, rather than whether aspects of the story even make plausible sense

>>25437056
>David Lightbringer thinks Asshai was the captial of the Great Empire of Dawn which was a human empire
And he’s wrong. Valyria is the epitome of human magical civilization.