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What's the best writing advice you've read?

>>25458131
"Just do it." -Nike & Shia Lebouf

>>25458094
>"OP created the thread way too early again because he knows if he lets anyone else do it they'll remove his precious self-help slop link" edition
ftfy

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>>25458138
t. wound so tight he's gonna spring a leak

>>25458145
t. arded

If you’re writing pablum like fantasy or sci fi then please KYS rather than spoil a thread meant for intellectual writing.

>>25458218
Please post a sample of your intellectual writing, not only to give us a baseline, but so that we can all bask in the revelation that is you. Spoiler alert: you'll spew a bunch of mindless insults, then ghost us.

>>25458229
>I was born a poor black child.

“Intellectual literature” is 100% cope. There has never been an idea so profound that it defied the possibility of being expressed in genre. Shakespeare wrote genre. Some writers are just too dull and can’t entertain their audience, so they cloister themselves in the shell of “intellectual” but in reality they’re the boring faggots who could never tell a good story at a party.

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>>25458271
All literature is literary fiction.

If you use words to tell a fictional story, you are by definition writing literary fiction, even if this literary fiction is isekai litRPG haremslop with big titty elf bitches.

>>25458271
>defied the possibility of being expressed in genre

you just made that up

>>25458296
Imagine buying these types of books. This person read the blurb and probably saw the author's profile and didnt see any red flags.

>>25457709
Thank you. Yea, the epilogue is supposed to be meant to be two things: an afterlife and return to taiga, where the family found shelter (or an exile) in past, violence preceded the exile, violence returned when they left and it barred them from returning. At the same it is meant to not be sure who is returning if the main character or the nonverbal one. The main character follows the horde into steppe, the nonverbal refuses to (implying she will try to return to the taiga). Refusal or illusion of being able to refuse is one of the motifs in the novel - women in ancient steppe could divorce their husband, refuse marriage even if they underwent bride kidnapping, the refusal after kidnapping in practice meant death by starvation as the tribe they were kidnapped by would oust them into the steppe. The ending is first time an refusal is refusal, an actual choice. I am happy you got that it's supposed to be afterlife.
About the horse smell: That paragraph is supposed to show "things are how they always were", "world is larger to us, it doesn't care" and "the world is composed of opposites, we live in it through experiencing them". In the original where in english is word smell there is verb that means "to smell good" and stink of course means "to smell bad". The "green grass, blue sky" formulation is used as topos throughout the book (inspired by medieval epics which the book is based on) and it comes from steppe mythology (at the beginning world was divided into sky and grass by fire), what's between them changes, the color of sky sometimes changes, what's below the sky sometimes changes.
The cones: They are supposed to be wood cones on ground. When they were surviving in the taiga in past, they survived by eating cones and pine nuts. Which are things that would be considered not tasty food to steppe people (who eat mostly meat and milk), but to them they became part of the shelter that taiga offered. So I think it's exactly the thing a person like her would take notice of in a forest where there are a lot of things to notice and I think it's nice little touch.
Btw finding the baby may seem like cliche, but it is actually one of the few things about history of eurasian steppe people before genghis khan that are historically attested.

>>25458271
Read Up In Michigan by Hemingway and let's see you expressing that in trashy YA fantasy novel.

>>25458094
&AMP issue #22 when? I'm starting to get impatient.

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Does anyone else get overcome with paralysis when it comes to actually sitting down and writing? Inspiration keeps creeping up on me in random moments where I'll write a bunch, but any time I consciously set time aside to sit down to write, I find myself procrastinating and spinning my wheels on bullshit like organising my files and doing research and never actually getting anything done.
I had a good routine going earlier this year when I was working on a different story, but none of those cues are really getting me into the groove now. To an extent I think I'm scared that if I actually sit down to put together everything I've been haphazardly jotting down, it'll amount to nothing. It's like I've got stage fright, and my conscious mind is embarrassed to face what I might have thrown at the wall in my less restrained moments.
It might also be as simple as my being burnt out from my day job. I've finally got a couple of weeks off and maybe I'm just trying to force myself to use them productively when I really just need to decompress.

>>25458094
Writing General thread? Take off your pants. Buy cod liver oil and some cats. Rape the cats.

>>25458469
Do not the cat.

I hate writing with Google Docs because you need internet connection to write. I hate MS Word too.

>>25458094
Forcing the stupit link that everyone hates out of spite just makes less people engage with this thread in good faith.

Soon only trolls and crabs will be left.
Is that what you really want OP?
Are you trying to kill off this thread?

>>25458218
You just mad because people actually enjoy reading and writing speculative fiction while no one actually enjoys your boring slop.

>>25458466
>Does anyone else get overcome with paralysis when it comes to actually sitting down and writing?
I wouldn't really say paralysis but I do suffer from sudden brainfog when preparing to write, even though once I get into it I can lock in.
Shit is frustrating.

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>>25458094
Lads, are there any decent platforms for hosting your writing? I suppose for truly micro-tier writing you could use twitter, but for anything more it isn't really suitable. I'm looking for:
>free
>low-medium traffic
>not genre-specific
>preferably minimal UI

Does this exist or would it just be better to host my own content?

If you punish someone who is trying to make amends with you are you being immoral or is it simply a matter of clashing moral systems with you favoring punitive action vs. their restorative view? How do you decide which is the correct approach? Does the fact they favor restoration over punishment simply to avoid suffering weaken their argument? Then it’s just selfishness.

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>>25458529

>>25458466
That's not a writing problem; that's a discipline problem, possibly a mental health problem.

>>25458573
t. drama queen

>>25458555
I use a text editor... in my desktop system, that's Pluma. I write in Markdown format, use pandoc to convert to e-book/paperback formats, and store all revisions in git.

>>25458609
I can think of two contrasting historical examples. After the American Civil War, the North worked to rebuild the South, not punish it, and there have been no more nation-splitting civil wars. After World War I, the victors punished the vanquished, and that led to a lot of resentment, culminating with the rise of Hitler, and WWII. Seems like the punitive approach is a bad one.

>>25458609
Everyone is selfish and all actions are self-serving. That being said, restoration vs punishment should depend on the circumstances.
>was the bad thing they did somewhat lesser/dismissible or was it horrific/egregious?
>is the capacity for genuine restoration even there?
>to what degree does the legal system require either and is there cause to go against the system in this instance?
>would justice be served in either direction? (justice being people getting what they deserve, vs mercy which is people not getting what they deserve)

Almost all criminals are not capable of actual restoration to productive, law-abiding, righteous individuals. The interesting cases are where they could be.

>>25458628
>After the American Civil War, the North worked to rebuild the South, not punish it
Surely you will concede that a considerable number of people disagree with this assessment on quite legitimate grounds though, right?

>>25458639
No. Relations between and within nations are incredibly simplistic and the only factor that determines whether wars ever happen is “did you piss them off last time.”

After writing and editing and re-editing and cutting a few thousand words and autistically moving commas around, I have definitively come to the end of writing my first full novel, there is simply nothing else I can do, it's now in its absolutely finished state. So the question is, now what the fuck do I do? I've been putting off this question for an entire year. Mostly it's just that I'm a coward who has never committed to anything in my life until now, and I'm scared of what comes next: other people actually reading my writing for the first time, the possibility of it being considered trash, whether or not I should self-publish or query. For anons who have actually finished a novel before, any advice for what I should do now that I've reached this point? This is the most stressed I've ever felt in my life before despite the fact that in the past few months I've probably worked harder than I ever have after spending an entire lifetime being a lazy bum without any ambitions to create anything.

>>25458639
Considering the bitching comes from bitches that lost and were subsequently pardoned and not mass-executed, that bitching is low-value bitchmade salty tears crying.

>>25458680
If you think Jeff Bezos and Amazon is not the devil then put it on Amazon.

If you think Jeff can go fuck himself put it on Patreon and cut it up into volumes then release it on RR.

It will definitely be considered trash but I'm not sure why should you give a fuck.

>>25458680
Throw it on Reddit and have them get confused at any reading higher than YA fantasy

>>25458683

And what about getting an agent and following the traditional publishing process?

> I'm not doing fan fiction stuff

>>25458689
Sure, you can be a retarded faggot and release your book in 2 years only to sell less than 10 copies if you really insist.

I'm not going to stop you, anon.

>>25458683
It's my understanding that paces like Patreon and RR work on an endless content model, that you're expected to keep writing chapters, even if nothing actually happens in them, and that the stories keep inflating until its something like a million words long with most of that content being repetitive bullshit. I only wrote a small finished 70,000 word novel that doesn't need a sequel or any kind of continuation. I'm not sure they would like it since it's not the kind of storytelling they usually read over there, and that's fine people are allowed to have different tastes, and I'm also worried that once I posted the last chapter it would just disappear under a deluge of new content, be forgotten in time, and I would basically gain no audience or have any lasting mark. But I don't really read stories from those kinds of sites, since I mostly just stick to reading older novels from the 20th century, and if there is a niche for shorter stories over there and it's just my preconception otherwise and I'm just judging them based on the stereotypes of RR readers I've heard about, then I'd love to be corrected.

>>25458693
Which is why you release chapters of 3k words at a glacial pace and then stub them.

You can also just release it on Patreon and shill it off there.

>>25458680
Post excerpts around on various sites, here, reddit, dedicated writing forums/communities etc. for feedback. If the praise is good, go straight to self-publishing under a pseudonym. Don't bother at all with traditional publishing routes. The sad truth is that they're totally ideologically captured and unless you fit a very clear author+subject match to what they want you simply will not get past the slush pile.

Go for it, lad, I'm sure your work is excellent.

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>>25458680

Everything you said describes me right now. I am nearly at that point myself (at 31yo after over 7 years of on-and-off work on my passion project, fucking hell).

And the other thing for me to consider is that I want good cover art in a particular style, not AI slop. I sketched out a basic idea of the layout and motifs, then I tried posting on the art commission subreddits, but they turned out to be shit because they're all used to that upturned nose marvelslop style and don't know anything different. I'm gonna have to try finding an actual master who paints in the art style I'm looking for which is fairly dated, and I don't know how easy it will be to find one

>>25458696
NTA but i'm almost in the same position and I'm curious how frowned upon it is to do multiple things? Can I release monthly on royal road and then at the end self-pub on amazon or somewhere? Start a patreon in addition to all this?

>>25458698
>The sad truth is that they're totally ideologically captured and unless you fit a very clear author+subject match to what they want you simply will not get past the slush pile.
Yeah, if that's true, then there's no way in hell a working-class white autistic fuck-up like me is making it in traditional publishing. Thanks for the advice, anon, I'll try to do it. Mostly I just have to conquer my own self-defeating attitude and fear of putting myself out there. Life as an autistic teenager left a long lasting ingrained aversion of talking and socializing with others, which you kinda have to do at some point if you wanna be an author for real.

>>25458698
Be careful with reddit. They follow some writing rules to a T. They need YA prose or everything is wrong

>>25458680
work on fixing it again for the inevitable 2nd edition

>>25458702
Frowned upon by who? Tradpubbing may care if a work has been released before, unless it's really successful, then they bend their crappy rules. Andy Weir's "The Martian" was first released for free on his website, then as an e-book, then a self-published paperback, then the tradpubbers came looking for him. The golden rule, as always, is that gold rules.

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>>25458729

> Andy Weir's "The Martian" was first released for free on his website, then as an e-book, then a self-published paperback, then the tradpubbers came looking for him.

Are there any detailed articles/webpages you could suggest that explain this process in detail? That would be much appreciated, I can't access pastebin from where I am

how much writing advice should I follow? Seems like everyone is copying whatever these youtubers say and putting it into their critique. maybe sometimes I want to have tons of repetition, use flowery ornate language, jar the writing style to match the character's POV. add metaphors that make little sense outside of the context. have the character be obsessive about certain things. but everytime i try, i get eviscerated by online critics.

>>25458751
well. you can't please everyone. question is, who do you want to please? you should look at whatever those people like. or if you don't care about pleasing anyone, then, well, why do you care?

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>>25458710

>work on fixing it again for the inevitable 2nd edition

fuk u :,(

Show, don’t tell.

>>25458748
Explain what process? Going viral based on the work's merit?

>>25458757
gotta please some people

>>25458784
I only want to please myself so I only write smut about me fucking hot chicks.

>>25458764
Don't shoot the messenger.

>>25458609
Clashing moral systems doesn't really apply if one is in the position to punish another. A guilty verdict isn't a convict and a judge "agreeing to disagree"

>>25458823
>with you favoring punitive action vs. their restorative view? How do you decide which is the correct approach?
is their "restorative view" equitable and just, or does it somehow oh-so-coincidentally relieve them of paying the penalty for their wrongdoing and/or foist the cost of making amends onto someone else?
there is also a deterrent aspect to punishment, or put simply, if it is seen by others that this someone can get away with a slap on the wrist, those others will be emboldened to attack me since the perceived risk in their risk-reward calculation has been reduced
>Does the fact they favor restoration over punishment simply to avoid suffering weaken their argument?
DUH
>Then it’s just selfishness.
on their part? yes
on my part? I would have to be be honest with myself about limiting the punishment to only what is fair and just

>>25458698
>go straight to self-publishing under a pseudonym
why a pseudonym by default?

>>25458839
In case it's badly received.

>>25458839
he’s a bitch ass scaredy pants nigga

Punishment is for angry children. Adults are capable of forgiveness.

>>25458698
>>25458703
It's not so much about ideology for ideology's sake, but marketing. Right now the people buying books are leftwing Gen Z women on tiktok, so trad publishing is generally only interested in stuff that appeals to that demographic, and only from authors with an existing social media following.
It could still be worth looking for a publisher, you just have to go niche, think about who their readerbase is and whether your work is marketable within it. And remember getting rejected is a universal experience, try to take it as a rite of passage.

>>25458858
self-fulfilling prophecy

drove away all the men, then used the lack of male readers as an excuse to keep driving them away as merely listening to market trends

it's obviously bullshit.

same shit they did to western comics. drove all the male readers away. now, comics are actually doing really well in the west. just not western comics. it's all manga. the readers were always there, they just drove them away purposefully. but unlike comics, women are interested in reading books, so the publishing industry won't go under from this. they'll only have half the audience that they could have.

>>25458784
It's entirely possible that no online critic falls into the group of people you want to/can please.
If you have reasons for doing the things they're criticising, that's different from doing it out of ignorance. Doesn't necessarily mean it's good, it could go either way, but if you can look at it, acknowledge the critique, and reasonably rebut it in your head (don't argue with critics, it's tacky) then trust yourself.
Online critics are looking for something to give feedback on, they're often just using you as a learning opportunity to which they can apply the things they've learned about writing, and sometimes they're just going down a list of rules in their head because it makes them feel smart. On the other hand, sometimes they're right. Trying to figure out what's worth listening to is part of the struggle.

>>25458858
>It's not so much about ideology for ideology's sake
spend some time with actual publishing "people"
>>25458864
>same shit they did to western comics. drove all the male readers away
yep

that being said, it's also the fault of male writers, in the sense that there is no male patron of the male arts stepping up to fill the void and meet demand.

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first time trying xenofiction and can't tell if my writing is actually boring or if I'm only bored because it is my work + I make an effort to keep my language simple and sentences effective
https (colon) (forward slash forward slash) justpaste (dot) it (forward slash) fyj40
I will crit back, but sometimes I may not have much to say that is novel. Don't take it as an insult.

>>25458864
That's just marketing, baby. All the boomers' midwit middle class children who were too good for the trades but too poor to be useless nepos had to do something with their life, so they all went into marketing. That's why childrens' toy aisle have slowly become a segregated nightmare of pure baby pink and sky blue over the last couple of decades. It's just a slow version of that time AI ate its own data so hard that it started shitting out piss-stained cartoons.
It's an entire industry built around eating its own tail and convincing everyone else to join in. It's all too fucking stupid to have any actual ideological backbone. Never flatter a marketer by accusing them of having any actual principles.

In case any of you is interested, we are having this month's writing competition over at >>25448513
Check out the theme and character requirements and if you are feeling creative why not submit something? Some of the best writing and writing advice I've seen in this site has come out of these competitions. You have until Friday to submit.

>>25458887
>it's just marketing
>they can't possibly be that woke
>no-one's that ideologically-driven
that says more about your personal beliefs than it says about theirs

>>25458872
>male patron of the male arts stepping up to fill the void and meet demand.
Anyone who tries that will get shut down for misogyny.

>>25458858
If I'm a male author but my book has a mostly female cast how will that affect my chances?

>>25458897
My personal belief as someone who knows a lot of marketers: It's all bullshit. We live in terminally insincere times.

>>25458916
you’d have a great chance at the leather bar in boys town

>>25458919
>I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt despite all evidence to the contrary because I’m a willfully blind cuck
Kek. Good luck.

>>25458923
I don't think gay men like CGDCT series very much though?

>>25458927
I don't know how you can delude yourself into thinking me saying "These people are morally bankrupt vultures who are selling society down the toilet for a quick buck and will gladly sell us a solution once we realise how fucked we are" could possibly be taken as me giving them the benefit of the doubt. You're in way too deep taking every little thing in the cold uncaring universe personally. I can't reach you, I have nothing more to say.

>>25458919
>she didn't mean it when she said she hated my guts because she's a marketer and all marketers lie, I know she really loves me
>>25458937
>if I show her I'm actually doing all this for her own good, she'll come back to me, I just know it

>>25458774

>Explain what process?

The process of

finished work -> promotion to gain a small, more devoted core readership -> establishing online presence ahead of future writing to streamline the process and grow audience

>>25458912
in an era of the INTERNET and EBOOKS and SELF-PUBLISHING and even fucking BITCOIN, all the tools are there for any interested patron with the funds to build their own publishing arm with blackjack and hookers
and it could be as difficult to eradicate as this very website

what is lacking is will

this complete mongoloid for example >>25456125 could have built a wholly Internet-based business, but chose to devote hundreds of thousands to making a pointless statement

>>25458940
Oh, you're actually schizophrenic, sorry for bothering you

>>25458963
No u

>>25458856
Capability does not mean it is always prudent to forgive. Or at least, it does not mean that forgiveness and punishment are mutually exclusive. For example, a family can 'forgive' the murderer of their relative (in the Christian sense of forgiveness) but that doesn't for a moment mean the murderer should not face punishment.

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Is there a free, user-friendly, minimal UI word processor? I just don't like the feel of typical text editors for actual writing rather than programming. Very different experiences.

>>25458466
Only write when you sit down

>>25458466
go on a walk, clear your head and then try to write again

>>25458628
As Machiavelli wrote:
Either your turn a defeated enemy into a friend or you destroy them.

Versailles really proved him right.

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Poem I wrote after seeing a dead hedgehog today :(

came to this thread in a feedback mood but no one's posted anything to read

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>>25459564

>>25459578
>milieu

Can I "borrow" a line from another movie as an homage? It's not a famous line or anything, and I doubt anyone but autists about the other movie would even notice, but it's a similar scene so it would work perfect in my screenplay.

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>>25459554
wtf is this schizo babble. you bridged "people telling you about their car breaking" with "my car's tire is worth more than an animal's life"?

God damn turn off the hysterics psycho. Its a fucking rodent it cant comprehend roads and cars

>>25459554
I think you meant flayed, not flailed. Flailing is not clean.

>>25459564
Want to read a story about a 90 IQ magatard chad thundercock guy walking into a leftist schizophrenic's hobby game store?

>>25459554
>I am told to pity the colonists car
Why are you on 4chan lmfao

>>25458941
Andy Weir had a successful web comic before he published "The Martian" on his site as a free e-book. There's no process that I'm aware of.

>>25459805
Hedgehogs are cute

>>25459840
it's an anti-zionist poem. i.e. the only colonisers left

>>25459275
LibreOffice Writer?
I can imagine what the formatted text looks like, and if I can't, I just run my Markdown-formatted text file through pandoc & look at the result.

>>25458138
there's an easy way to fix that. just make one now and we all migrate.

>>25458229
>>25458241
Did I call that or what.

>>25459990
>"fix" an early thread by creating an even earlier thread
uh no
also it'll get deleted for spamming/flooding

>>25460062
not if we all report this one for spamming and flooding first

>>25460111
Are you stupid? The post number will indicate which one was first. What epic pettiness.

>>25460123
>The post number will indicate which one was first
so? it's not genuine

>>25460132
If this is any sort of priority for you, then you need some real problems in your life. All you have are petty, made-up ones.

>>25460145
cry about it, mong

>>25460164
Cry about what? You're the only one whining.

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Should be able to finish revising my second draft tomorrow, or Thursday at latest.
...then I get to start on the third draft

>>25460184
thread bakers like you are always mentally ill projecting fucks. talk about free time

>>25460196
What about people who whine about thread bakers, and jump to unsupported conclusions, but refuse to get off their dead ass and do anything?

>>25459554
I can picture a Ford's rubber scrotum, but I don't know what a tarmac's cervix is supposed to refer to. I'd probably switch it for 'teeth' or something.
I'd also consider switching 'spines' for needles/quills/spikes, since the skin and bones preamble make me think of vertebra first, but that might be a dialect thing.
I think there's untapped room for playing with the idea of predator/prey, the dead hedgehog being treated as a predator for having punctured the car that killed it, when neither of them wanted anything to do with each other in the first place.
I like the defeatism at the end, giving in to pressure and convenience at the cost of being able to appreciate the outdoors.

The discontented murmuring had risen to full on booing. Students openly jeered and shouted, abandoning any semblance of politeness. Some were on there feet shouting insults.

The professor persevered with her speech. Only raising her voice slightly in an attempt to compete with the increasing noise. “Israel and AI...”

The shouting grew even louder.

“Israel and AI” she repeated in a fruitless attempt to remain in control of the situation. Then something landed on the stage with a muffled thud. A thrown shoe. Only the professor noticed it, pausing momentarily before a second shoe hit the podium. Everyone noticed that. Then from somewhere in the crowd a metal toolbox was hurled and slammed into her head folding her silently to the floor. The curtain dropped leaving only two shoes sticking out from underneath.

The students were once against silent. The assistant dean, a short unassertive man with round glasses, a mustache and the in the late stage of male pattern baldness took the stage, awkwardly stepping over the pair of protruding feet, adjusted the microphone slightly and addressed the crowd which had returned to civility. “First of all I’d just like to congratulate the class of 25 on the hard work they’ve put in.”

>>25460569
The professor's name?
Adolf Hitler.

>>25460569
I very much enjoy the rhythm of this prose

>>25460569
Kek

>>25460211
not nearly as mentally ill as thread bakers or the imaginary internet enemies they invent to stay the shotgun they'll inevitably turn on themselves one day

>>25458138
kek

>>25460890
Wow. Epic projection. I'm not even vaguely suicidal. You really are a small-minded, mean-spirited, hateful little toad of a man, aren't you?

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>>25460915
don't bother. this thread is a festering pajeet shithole now. nobody reads anything, only here to fling shit and start arguments over nothing.

>>25460915
>10 min reply any random time of day
you are in this thread every second of every day. you are the baker. get a real life

nice hyphens btw I'm sure your writing is great, quite intellectual no doubt, quite sir, really

>>25460921
Epic lack of self-awareness. The thread is that way as long as there are people like you in it. Your input is not value-added.

>>25460927
Now you're seething about hyphens? You have lost all critical perspective. And I'd ask what your writing is like, but you know you don't have any.

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>>25460921

Just about every board and general on here is a festering shithole full of twitter screenshots now, I think it's done by design for glowie demoralization ops and ad revenue for gookmoot. /po/ might be one of the only truly comfy places left on all of 4chan

> fun fact: /po/ also hosts the oldest active thread on 4chan, it's been up since May of 2016

>>>/po/622919

>>25460932
your writing is a non-entity. If nobody reads it, does a novel really exist?

>>25460929
>starts an argument over nothing
not beating the allegations here, stinky.

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>>25460938
AI will read it.

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>>25460921
oh look the bore is back

>>25460947
>claude watermark
what does that mean? you can't watermark text?

>>25460938
Now you're just making stuff up. What's it like to be so petty?
>>25460942
I see no allegations, just random seething. Are you Boor? If so, you're usually a better troll than this. What happened?

>>25460947
>no way to differentiate assisted
Nigga thought he did actual work because he told Jarvis how the hero should punch the bad guy.

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>>25460956
>Are you Boor? If so, you're usually a better troll than this.
NJB posts his books (he actually writes). Trolls are obsessed with him because they are sissified envious vermin. Hope that clears things up for you.

>>25460947
It's genuinely so fucking blackpilling how helpless some people are without AI, and how entitled.
Bitch just type it out fresh, are you THAT lazy?

>>25460034
>you'll spew a bunch of mindless insults
Where is that part? You didn’t call shit.

>>25460968
Are you really speaking of yourself in the third person now? This is psychotic-break territory.

I would share my work but it’s fantasyslop and I know you people hate that.

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>>25460991
>Are you really speaking of yourself in the third person now? This is psychotic-break territory.

>>25460994
> I would share my work but it’s unedited, first draft garbage, and I know you people hate that.
ftfy

>>25461000
Why even bother pretending to read when you just make up your own words?

are we allowed to just post like, little one-off excerpts of writing. im not writing a book or anything just little bits here and there

>>25461015
generally yes, but since you asked in such a gay way I have decided to not allow it.

>>25461015
Only if they’re erotic.

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>>25461020
satire

>>25461032
Well that certainly sidestepped my expectations at every turn.
Honestly my only note is to get rid of the "and" in the list of small town pleasures at the start, to make it feel more like rattling off examples rather than a definite "these three specific things."

>>25461052
yayyyy!!! on it. thank you for your feedback

>>25461032
Shit actually got me reading, I really want to see the extent of the degeneracy of this character, and then have him be unwillingly enlightened/redeemed by experiencing new things, I can already see it, keep us posted with ts.
Also, be careful with changing tense mid paragraph, it should be "she hadn't been nearly that horrified", using that instead of this, I mess up things like that too on occasion, and since I am the goat you shouldn't let it get you down, since you know, you aren't, it's only natural to mess up.

>>25461032
I didn’t raise no fuckin’ deviant” she scolded from the doorway. Hands on hips but not crossing the threshold. Not after what happened last time.

“Aw get off my case you STEWPID old bitch.” I shot back. “Go fall down the fuckin’ offal pit or stick a doorknob up your washed up old cunt.”

She beat me to the draw but I won by volume. Getting off seven rounds for the one her busted old ass managed. Hers went wide and blew up the pillow by my head sending a cloud of feathers flying. My first severed part of her left shoulder, two, three and four all hit the left side of her neck blowing out chunks but missing anything vital. Five split her glasses as it put a hole through her cheek. Six and seven were dead on centre mass, blowing her back out the door into the drywall.

“DROP THE FUCKIN’ GUN” I screamed, retreating to cover. I was met with more shots all of which went over my head and into the neighbour’s bedroom. I fired more rounds through the particle board kicking up plaster dust. “FUCKIN’ PUT IT DOWN”

The response wasn’t shots but a sound like a blocked drain pipe. “GGGGGHHHHHUUUUUUU”

I dumped the rest of the magazine where I thought she must be laying.

>>25461081
oh yes, you're right let me fix that. thank you for your kind feedback i really appreciate it!!

>>25461032
gross.

>>25461097
yes!

>>25461085
gonna steal the washed up old cunt line, it's perfect for him

"No Doctor Calorius! Don't use your enlardo ray on the elementary school. If you must fatten someone use it on me instead."

"A noble gesture Cardio Queen. But I think I'll do BOTH!"

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>>25454288
>>25454292
>>25454295
And I thought he'd never return! Good day to you, sugar drawers.

Dick cursed the low water pressure in his shower. If he ever needed to get clean, it was now. He had idly pondered buying some engine degreaser on the way home, but decided that wouldn't be wise. Shampooing from head to toe, followed by his usual body wash, should be enough. He considered swapping his Axe Body Spray for Lysol, but decided that probably wasn't safe, no matter how much he wanted to. Besides, he had to get used to this. If this new job worked out, he could rent a much better apartment, one with water pressure as well as central air conditioning. But only if, he noted as he shuddered with disgust, he could withstand it.
The trip to the clinic had been uneventful. All he had to do was mention Groendyke Productions and he was instantly escorted to an examination room. The cotton swab, mounted on a thin wooden rod and thrust into his urethral orifice, brought back unpleasant memories of college, soon after discovering the downside to art hoes. A few probes later, all his samples were encased in plastic and spirited away. He hardly minded they didn't take insurance—besides, Groendyke had a volume discount.
He still had about ninety minutes before he needed to show up for his waiter job. It was still a hot day, but somehow it was more pleasant outside. Perhaps the roof of his one-story apartment building really did retain and disgorge significant heat. There was a public park only a few blocks away; it wasn't on the way to his job, but that didn't seem important now. A few minutes later and he found himself seated on a bench under a shady tree. Kids and dogs frolicked and played, their caretakers hovering nearby.
He leaned back and closed his eyes. It was only a dozen or so blocks from where he lived, but it seemed like a different world. Just as much auto traffic, but less noise. The park's grass and trees made a noticeable dent in the air pollution, as well as the heat. He wondered why he didn't do this more often.
"Hey, boy." Dick looked up to see two derelicts staring at him. The wind changed direction suddenly, pelting him with their rank odor. He was surprised to find it didn't faze him; their funk was nothing compared to the film set.
"Buzz off," he snapped.
"Why you gotta be so mean?" one burbled. "We just want you to suck our dicks."
Dick glared at both of them. "You can't afford me."
"Huh?" one retorted. "What does that even mean? Now start blowing me!"
Dick smirked. "I would, but your boyfriend looks like the jealous type."
The indigents exchanged unsettled looks. "What the hell are you doing?"

>>25461032
satire is when you exaggerate a position you disagree with to demonstrate its absurdity, and generally has to do with abstract ideas.
this is just the first person ramblings of a hillbilly pedophile.

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>>25461120
"Try your luck at the Hollywood VIP Hotel," Dick suggested. "Something tells me the crack whores are gonna love you."
Both of them took a step back, their eyes flitting nervously.
"Why don't you scram?" Dick thundered. "There are kids and pets here! They deserve a safe park. You don't belong here!"
Dick stood up; they took another step back. "What the hell happened to you two?" he boomed. "What sad, pathetic life did you lead to end up here, right now, asking a stranger to blow you? Your parents must be so proud of you. That sure was worth eighteen years of their toil and worry."
The two bums moved their mouths, but no words came out. Finally, they turned and strode away quickly. Without warning, the nearby park-goers erupted in applause. Dick jolted, unsure of how to react. Their approval soon reached his heart, and he relaxed and grinned.
A man strolled up to him, his large in tow. "Well done, good sir!" he effused, shaking Dick's hand. "I can't believe you were brave enough to say that!"
"I've had a hell of a day," Dick revealed. "Very little scares me at the moment. Besides," he continued, watching their ever-diminishing forms, "they really don't belong here."
"I'm glad you're here," the dog owner assured Dick.
His dog walked up to Dick, sniffed once, and proceeded to piss all over him.
Dick leapt off the bench, earning a miffed look from the dog. "Hey!" Dick screeched. "What the hell?"
"Oh my God!" He grabbed his dog and strode away. "He's never done anything like that before!" The dog strained at his leash, trying to return to Dick. "He must have thought you smelled like shit."
Dick teared up as he looked at his pants; they were soaked from the shin down. What was he going to do? He didn't have time to return home and shower. Spying a fountain nearby, he trudged over and stepped in. A few seconds later, he realized the fountain water smelled even worse. His eyes burning with rage, Dick left the fountain and tromped away.
Several blocks later, he skulked to the rear entrance of the relatively dignified eatery. Spotting a garden hose, he turned on the water and tried to wash off his pants. He felt sick to his stomach as he watched waves of yellow drain away.
"Hey, you bum!" a voice yelled. "Get the hell out of here!" Dick looked up to see his Simon, the floor manager, storming toward him. "Oh, it's you, Dick. What the hell are you doing?"
"Dog pissed on me," Dick admitted.
"Well, you're wasting our water." The hose went dry as Simon turned off the tap. "Wait right here."

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uh oh the stinky NJB trolls are big mad!

>>25461120
Stop spamming this unfunny shit

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>>25461125
Dick sullenly turned the water back on and continued rinsing himself.
Simon returned. "What the hell did I just tell you? Freaking moron." After twisting the faucet shut, Simon sprayed Dick's shins with copious amounts of Febreze, then took a few tentative sniffs. "That'll do. Next time, don't get pissed on, you freak."
Simon turned and stomped away. "Hey!" cried Dick. "How about a towel?"
"What am I, your mother?" Simon berated. "Want me to tuck into bed, too?"
Dick shuddered at the mention of the word "bed". Pulling himself together, he passed through the service entrance, toweled off his legs, donned his apron-like uniform, and entered one of the handful of dining rooms.
He took orders, brought back drinks, helped set up toddler seats, and played a game of tic-tac-toe with a young patron with gleaming blue eyes. He let her win; a victory meant nothing compared to a happy customer. He sighed as his nostrils took in the scent of beef getting seared, chicken breasts sizzling, and flayed onions being deep fried. For the first time in a while, he appreciated the upside of this venerable establishment.
Simon caught up with him as he returned to drop off orders. "Go handle table twelve," he commanded.
"Really? But that's not one of mine."
"They requested you specifically."
"Who is it?"
Simon simply pointed away. "Go. Or you're out the door. You and your piss legs." Dick shrugged and ambled toward the large booth in the corner.
The patrons saw him from a distance; all of them waved. He furrowed his brow as he approached. Despite living in the same apartment for over five years, he didn't know a lot of people in this town. He doubted the crack whores he patronized frequently could afford an upscale joint like this, especially for what he paid. And he couldn't recall serving any large parties recently, none that might remember him and ask for a command performance.
As he neared, one of them turned and smiled, his gold teeth flashing in an all too familiar way. Dick stopped suddenly, as a torrent of angst hit all at once. His heart raced as he felt a dead weight in the pit of his stomach. His knees shook as he slowly approached the table. About half the film crew was there, along with a few new faces. Prahabadubudiwidawa's outfit was uncomfortably reminiscent of liturgical vestments, complete with a Celtic cross so oversized, even Flavor Flav would object.
"Richard, my man!" Mahboob bellowed.
"There's our star!" Shihpupi gushed.
"Wow," Prahabadubudiwidawa effused. "You clean up good!"
"No," Dick managed to stammer. "This isn't happening."

>>25461128
yeah this nigga is obsessed and gay asf idk what's happening

>>25461127
>>25461128
>>25461139
cry more, bore

>>25461121
>satire is when you exaggerate a position you disagree with to demonstrate its absurdity, and generally has to do with abstract ideas.
i was exaggerating the position of weird women-hating freaks, to demonstrate how absurd misogyny is

>>25461139
I'm starting to think it's the dark triad homo himself attempting guerilla marketing. I'm tired of all of it.

>>25461146
Lmfao holy shit

>>25461143
Try again

>>25461100
gross as in stop writing forever

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>>25461147
I'm not posting that faggot pasta shite. It's probably Total Bitch Jeetson (author of Constipated Cunt) still seething about his inferiority.

>>25461162
noooooo, there's so much more grossness to uncover. i think there should be more gross writing.

>>25460949
>>25460968
>>25461127
boor admits his readers are fictional

>>25461147
nah, it's not him, otherwise it'd be a screenplay disguised as prose

>>25461167
how many books have (You) sold this month?

>>25461164
Can all of you just stop namefagging entirely
>>25461166
There's more than enough, keep it to yourself

>>25459275
For a year I used online notepad because I wanted minimal distractions and only plain text file outputs.
https://onlinenotepad.org/app

Now I use LibreOffice Writer and can fully appreciate the upgrade. Just the optimal zoom function alone is a game changer for me.

>>25459275
That's crazy, I don't think I could write at all without my autistic git + neovim + type + python setup. It's too comfy.

>>25461176
>stop namefagging entirely
Please.

>There's more than enough, keep it to yourself
I don't think I hear you from your ivory tower, where is the argument for saying gross writing is fundamentally bad? Or overdone? Should degenerates never appears in stories? I seriously don't get your reasoning here, I even found his excerpt to be a pleasant read

>>25461166
when you've read one neurotic jewish childhood ramblings you've read them all.

>>25461169
>screenplay disguised as prose
Care to expand on what you mean? And why it's undesirable too please, I fear I might be falling into such a pattern myself.

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Just think, Boor... we're going to spend all day together! You... me... your willing, supple thighs... my elephantine jeet dick... I'm so excited! Aren't you?

>>25461198
I wish I could beam thought forms into your head, I'm too lazy to actually explain why I'm correct. I thought it kind of amusing and the writing is fine but there's no artistic value left in prurience that I can see. Simplistic lyric poetry about sunshine and rainbows is less banal at this point. Unless you just directly enjoy expressions of sexual deviancy?

>people start posting writing
>everyone spergs out
What’s the point of this general?

>>25461216
To post writing and then sperg out about it

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>>25461218
Carry on, then.

>>25461206
NTA and I'm too drunk to properly articulate myself rn but this shit is a plague on modern novels and reeks of "I'm just writing this as a book because it's a lower barrier for entry, I'm hoping Netflix picks it up so I can make it for real."
Basically, ask yourself if you've just got a movie in your head and are trying to give your readers adequate instructions on how to visualise that same movie. Why is this written as a novel (or short story or poem or whatever), other than convenience? What are you doing with the medium that wouldn't be better expressed as a film/TV show if you had the means? Is your prose just glorified stage direction, describing things that are happening? Or is it part of the story itself, doing things that only text can do?

Try to watch a movie adaptation and then read the book, and observe all the elements of the book that were unadaptable. Those elements are what you want in a novel.

Excerpt from fat fetish smut. I got sick of AI putting out shit so I figured I'd do it myself.

They called it Corpulus. Or Corp for short. It had no additional numbers or letters because it wasn’t derived from any known virus on record. No one knew its origin though speculation ran rampant on the holo-net. One particularly insane theory being that it was manufactured by a cult that worshipped some old world Goddess of gluttony or good harvest or some such nonsense. As if a handful of wasteland dwelling luddites had either the capability or mental acumen to create a global plague that had at this point defeated all of Earth’s top minds and every attempt at curing it.

All that was known about it could be counted on one hand.It had started in the Southern territory and spread like wildfire. It attached itself to fat cells and caused rapid growth for about a month before dying off in the host. By then having caused between two hundred or three pounds of weight gain. Though some were more or less susceptible for reasons also unknown.

The government of Earth had turned to their shining star. A brilliant young geneticist who several years prior had cured the Apex flu. An unwitting gift left by alien delegates of Andromeda. It has claimed 1300 lives before she cracked its genetic code. As a reward she had been made head of Earth’s disease preparedness lab and given her own team to head off any potential future outbreaks. Corp however had spread at such a rapid pace that all their safeguards and warning systems had failed. Within weeks it was in every major population centre. Once it became clear that it was airborne and a quarantine would do nothing, plan Alpha was put into effect. All this meant in practice was the elites fled off-world or sealed themselves in subterranean bunkers and left the masses to their fate. In just over a month global obesity hit ninety eight percent. No species was immune. Young, old, man or woman or child.

And that was how she came to be aboard a modestly sized research station in the orbit of Callisto. The government fully expected their miracle worker to save them again.

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okay i added a bit more, this guy is written to die hence his awful personality. i dont actually know how women-haters think so this is my best guess as to what goes on in their minds. any real women haters let me know how accurate this is

>>25461164
It's not me but I did make the gif anon posted here >>25461125

>>25461242
If you aren't joking that angle completely ruins it. I thought it was funny because it was so absurd and nonsensical. My culture is not your costume and you have a poor theory of mind.

t. Feels nauseous at the mere sound of womandialect

>>25461232
Best writing of today. I suggest you crank up the final average weight gain by 300 pounds.

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>>25461231
Thanks for your answer, that last
>Those elements are what you want in a novel.
Really did resonate with me, immediately made me think of Dune, I'll reflect on it.
One of my inspirations is McCarthy, and he really does simply describe things very visually, at least in Blood Meridian he does, does he do it well? Or is he another example of this screenplay mentioned? Here is an example for if you aren't familiar.

Anyone who is willing please answer me, I really think I do this and am still in time to go revise the chunk of the book that I've written.

>>25461249
im dead serious. it IS meant to be absurd and nonsensical but also have bits that incels will read and think 'hmm wait this guy behaves kind of similarly to me' and then hopefully invoke some kind of introspective self reflection. but overall its also just fun to write a super over the top horny weirdo. give it a go guys.

>>25461242
I'm not a woman hater but the character comes off as someone who isn't a expert using English trying to come off as an English expert. In a word, pretentious. That might've been what you were going for but it makes for a less than ideal reading experience.

>>25461255
Nta but mccarthy does NOT describe things visually, not to me. He describes them *perceptually*, well after the brain has processed them and imposed its own biases and noise. That's how it feels to me anyway. Abstract concepts are at least as real as the physical terrain in the works of his that I've read.

>>25461253
Should I do it furry or human? I'm thinking of a fennec fox as the MC since they're short. She can be wider than she is tall.

>>25461265
yeah, it doesnt have the best flow. noted.

>>25461263
It works much better as satire of feminist thought, if anything.
>but overall its also just fun to write a super over the top horny weirdo
True, but I keep that stuff (which always ends up being extremely and intentionally malebrained ~lesbian erotica for some reason) in the "trash" subfolder where it belongs, unless I have a really good reason for a character to be like that.

>>25461272
Why not a dimensional merge? Best of both worlds.

>>25461274
I'm not sure what you mean by "flow" but my advice if it wasn't written that way completely purposefully is to keep your English simple and maximize comprehensiblity above artistry until you have the skills to juggle both. If you did mean it to be pretentious I'd reccomend trying to communicate that through a different medium than the text people are going to have to wade through to get to the story.

>>25461286
>It works much better as satire of feminist thought, if anything.
im curious, how so? this guy is meant to be an exaggerated reflection of the red-pilled men of this generation who are so porn-brained that they can't comprehend women as being real people. do you mean because he is what feminists believe men to behave like? and yeah its already getting really unpostable :/ its nice to hear that other people have weird writing stored away though. sometimes i feel like a disgusting freak who is the only one in the world who can conjure up such gross thoughts. i hope everyone is just as gross and weird as me

>>25461304
he is meant to be a pretentious freak who believes himself to be intellectually superior to everyone around him, but i think the writing is just kind of off. i haven't done any editing

>genuine story with heart and effort put into it
>"fucking garbage lmao"
>shitpost story cranked out without a second thought
>"best thing in the thread"
Gee, I wonder why so few are willing to take /wg/ critique seriously

>>25461242
Eh, I loved the first bit, but this is saying the quiet part loud. He's too aware. It was more interesting when it was just "I got off to a picture of a faceless woman while my mother screamed at me, oh btw seeing a reminder that this woman in front of me is human disgusts me and really puts a damper on my pervert time," leaving the reader to draw whatever conclusion while he strolls through life in ignorance. I don't want him to explain his damage to me, I want to join him as he pratfalls through experiences he finds inexplicably uncomfortable while we slowly assemble the puzzle together.
Most woman haters don't even know they're woman haters, they just think they're seeing reality as it is. Hell, even people around woman haters often don't know they're woman haters, because they'll often just get heated about certain things that "happen" to involve women and find just enough probable cause that you honestly believe them up to a certain point.

>>25461320
You're aware something can be serious and badly written as well as a joke but well written? Intent doesn't equal merit.

>>25461315
Oh, that explains a lot if it's a first draft, yeah you'll fix that over time with editing. But that brings up the question of why you're presenting us with something currently unpresentable.

>>25461326
my bad, first time here. i usually share my writing with friends but this seemed too weird

>>25461322
mmmm okay, that makes sense. thats really good feedback, thank you. i wasn't really sure whether or not to go with the 'yes i hate bitch cunts and i hope they die' or 'for some reason i dont see women as people but i dont know why' but what your saying makes a lot of sense.

>>25461320
Have you considered that "best thing in the thread" was, perhaps, also a shitpost

>>25461349
Is it not a damning indictment of the overall writing talent of /lit/ that it was actually true though?

>>25461323
I'll grant that the serious attempts aren't always the best but the shitposts aren't generally well-written either. Seems more like /wg/ just hates authenticity and loves detached irony.

>>25461355
It's not actually true you people just hate authenticity

>>25461320
Reddit is the same.
>word is longer than 4 syllables
>ITS SHIT!!! because it's not simple enough to read it! You can use simplier words!!!
>proceeds to give you a word that doesn't even mean what you originally wrote

>>25461332
Yeah your friends will have patience with you and look past your flaws because they like you but we don't know you so you'd better make sure you're presenting us with something presentable

>>25461338
>'for some reason i dont see women as people but i dont know why'
I'm not sure I'd even offer the protagonist that level of insight desu
Instead of coming at it from a viewpoint of "I want to show incels what they look like" maybe try instead "I want to make a completely normal, well adjusted person buy into an incel viewpoint, and then (much later) make them feel embarrassed for having done so."

Granted, I'm just saying this as someone who went into your first except with no clue where it was going, it's possible I just got high on my own intrigue. But to me it painted a portrait of someone very visceral and impulse driven, not so cerebral or reflective.

>>25461320
A 4chan general isn't the be-all end-all of literary criticism?? People have to take any critiques they get here (or lackthereof) with a grain of salt??? Say it aint so!

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i need a new and better denouement

>>25461379
Is this the writer of Souris? I don't think I've ever seen an epilogue referred to as a "denouement" anywhere else

>>25461375
To be fair there is no "be-all end-all of literary criticism"

>>25461397
No I'm the anon writing the screenplay. I have the climax all worked out, but idk what to do after that. What I have so far (some quips) is bad

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>>25461255
>>25461269
I think i get it, but i just want to be sure, here, this is the very introduction to the story, first version, is this too screenplayie?

Ignore the highlighted city name that just means its subject to change.

>>25461320
you are on the same board that regularly makes GRRM and sanderson threads unironically

>>25461355
Yes, lit is retarded, we know. Now go write your own furry femcel fantasy piece so we can shit on it too. I'm doing a last edit pass on my own thing and I'll post it later.

>>25461356
Or maybe people like entertainment and aren't automatically going to have the same egoistic-masturbatory reaction you (and I too, for the record) do to your own (and my own) thoughts.

>>25461399
Yes there is: My diary desu.

>>25461362
It’s like submitting reports through the communications team at my job. But with the added benefit of “you can’t use the term ‘stakeholders’ because it’s racist.”

>>25461434
You have an egoistic-masturbatory reaction to *my* writing?

>>25461446
No but I made it ambiguous because I knew you'd probably comment something to that effect

BAITED!!!!1!1!!!!1!

>>25461463
Oh sure, you were just pretending to not know how to write clearly

>>25461473
No, I was intentionally not writing clearly. And now I'm dancing with you, again intentionally.

Any recommendations for good trans literature I want to understand them better

>>25461478
Picnic at Hanging Rock

Remember, AI jeet smut writers can make $1000 a month

>>25461506
you can theoretically also make 1000 dollars monthly on lottery tickets.

>>25461255
>One of my inspirations is McCarthy, and he really does simply describe things very visually, at least in Blood Meridian he does, does he do it well? Or is he another example of this screenplay mentioned? Here is an example for if you aren't familiar.

You should read No Country for Old Men, since that book originally started as a screenplay. One part of McCarthy's prose that you might've heard used as a criticism against it is its oratory quality. In other words, it reads like it's meant to be spoken and heard, not read with the eye like a lot of other books. You'll know this if you manage to get your hands on a good audiobook of his stories.

With Blood Meridian, it's less about the individual words and more about the effect they have as a whole, from one sentence to the next. If you want to read what a feeling it gives, read Longinus's "On The Sublime"

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A few days ago, me and an autistic lit girl I talk to were discussing what romance novel she suggested I read. I joked that the pulpier romance novels were singlehandedly keeping the independent bookstores of the US in business because they were basically pornography for women, and that's why they filled up half their shelves. She was offended that I said that, and we didn't talk for the rest of the day, some time later she told me that I could sometimes be nieve in the way I communicated.

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but why can't women just own the fuck up to their own nature, and stop trying to be so damned coy about it? It would make them so much more tolerable to be around

> and her suggested romance novel for me was Thomas Hardy's The Return of the Native

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What's the best way to come up with interesting and unique alien races? I'm struggling to find a line between blue human and just a planet of an archetype.

>>25461535
>but why can't women just own the fuck up to their own nature, and stop trying to be so damned coy about it?
Well, first of all, they're women. Second of all: How would you feel if someone started talking about how you jack off to fat fetish hentai and pick your nose or whatever?

>>25461404
>>25461255
I've never read McCarthy
based only on these two excerpts, I hate the use of past continuous tense
>the young woman was sprinting down the narrow alley
>people were pouring out, women screaming, folk stumbling
I believe this is what you mean by:
>25461255
>he really does simply describe things very visually
>>25461269
>He describes them *perceptually*, well after the brain has processed them
>25461404
>is this too screenplayie?
continuous tense is often used in screenplays and that may be why McCarthy feels "screenplay-ey"

and yes, continuous tense is usually avoided in novels because it feels passive and detached
a greater sense of urgency is created when reading
>The young woman sprinted down the narrow alley
>Peopled poured out, women screamed, folk stumbled
that's just how people's minds and language works

>25461255
>immediately made me think of Dune
no, Dune is totally different
Dune uses archaic, almost Shakespearean language
>You'd not
>Think you
to give it a grand, almost Biblical feel

>>25461548
Look at animals around you.
>Deep sea creatures
>Corals
>Tree people
>Amemobas
>Insects
>Birds
>Fruits
>Pachederms

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>>25461535
>why can't women just own the fuck up
they're women
>I joked that the pulpier romance novels were singlehandedly keeping the worldwide publishing industry in business
FTFY; this is a well-known industry fact
>because they were basically pornography for women
this is also increasingly gaining attention, but it's still controversial (read: the publishing world is still in denial that it's women's porn)
alarm bells were already rung 25 years ago, but the fact is already over half a century old, look up Harold Robbins

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>>25461551

>Second of all: How would you feel if someone started talking about how you jack off to fat fetish hentai and pick your nose or whatever?

In perfectly good fun, I would correct them that the only fat girls I jacked off to were chubby Middle Eastern ones, the only Japanese adult material I consume is casting videos of 30+ yo amateur women, and that I do indeed pick my nose.

See how men can just have fun like that, and women can't? It's a mystery.

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>>25461570
>See how men can just have fun like that, and women can't? It's a mystery
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_female.htm

>>25461570
Based alert. But no, I'm sorry to say that that kind of honesty is more an autist/whatever disease makes you post 4chan thing more than just a man thing, there are plenty of male narcissists.

Although it is far more mannish than foidish for sure, and almost none of us have the sex-group identity instinct.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Wwwahhhh wommmezzzz

Sheesh these /r9k/ posters would rather complain about nonsense than write. Guess what? Those women writers you see the over write better than you do.

>>25461552
>continuous tense is often used in screenplays and that may be why McCarthy feels "screenplay-ey"
I see, i think you are correct, i'll keep an eye out for it in my writing, i hope it feels bettere after a revision.
>no, Dune is totally different
>Dune uses archaic, almost Shakespearean language
Ah, yes, im aware. What i meant was that anon's statement that i should focus on the things movies weren't able to adapt immediatly made me think of Dune, i think the movies really do not hold a candle to the books at all.

I'll take both of your advices into deep consideration, thank you, im a real beginner at this stuff.

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This is, to me, the best thing I've ever written but I'm incapable of being objective about it because it is (despite starting out as an exercise in writing from a perspective very different than my own) incredibly self indulgent. Any issues with it? (ignoring spelling mistakes, I haven't used spell check on it) Is the flow of events alright? Anything else I could improve? Should I kys myself? This is the secondish draft.

>>25461582
>Those women writers you see the over write better than you do.
Are you one of them?

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>>25461583
>im a real beginner at this stuff.
ah, I didn't know that
pick up a few books on the basics of plot and writing, and practice practice PRACTICE
start with Strunk & White, it's useful not just for fiction but also explains general and universal rules of English that are more implied than strictly grammatical, and explains it in a very straightforward way
good luck

>>25461593
This is good advice, and I'd add that reading classics helps a ton too, especially anything that's "hard" to read. Pick stuff from the lit top 100 that you think you'll find interesting.

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>>25461582

>Those women writers you seethe over write better than you do.

I imagine there are many cases in which this is true, don't get me wrong. And I acknowledge them as a complimentary presence to men in the human experience, that are ultimately the way they are for some cosmic reason that I cannot comprehend as an individual. But that still doesn't explain why they can't just be more open about female nature, any time I halfway even make an observation about women in general, the hair always raises on the back of my neck and I have to preface it with the "not all women, but..." disclaimer (your comment included). It feels like a threat response more than a simple expression of frustration

>>25461616

> as a complimentary presence to men in the human experience

Whoops, I meant complementary

>>25461616
They are.
>Women like cute tall rich men
>Writes about cute tall rich men
>Women like having a silly career, going on coffee dates, have a best guy friend as their backup and a hot werewolf billionaire doctor
>Writes exactly that

What are they not being honest about?

>>25461589
I am.

>>25461586
This reads very, very much like a friend speaking to you, as im sure was intended, this might polarize your audience, some will love it and some hate it, as for myself it really irks me on sentences like:

>Listening to one of his AI agencies rants, *or whatever*
>shrieking happily *'cause*

That "or whatever", feels to me equally as bad as intentionally adding "like" as a connector to their writing, as if they needed time to think... when writing... so i don't like it, but it really does feel very homely and intimate.

I do not know the previous context of this 3 page scene, but you are correct, it is very indulgent. If previously we were introduced to these characters and the reader wants to explore their dynamics, or maybe we care about the protagonist who has had a rough time, and this is pay off, then this scene works, but in isolation i have no reason to care for anything or anyone in these pages.

I do like your cadence though. im not super well versed in literature, so i can't recommend books or authors, this is just my perception.

>>25461626
Your equivalent is
>Anime is cartoon porn
>Anime nerd boy cries and says it's not!
>Shows them some shit from Naruto
>Proceeds to have ass shots of some 14 year old anime girl

>>25461593
>>25461596
Thank you, i'll get right on it, i like when im not entirely freestyling my work, so this will help a lot.

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>>25461626

>What are they not being honest about?

The fact that they get off on romance novels as a form of pornography in a way that men do not. The content of the novels does have honesty in it (it's probably much of the reason why they like them so much), but women themselves are not honest about the reason they read them.

> inserting the prerequisite disclaimer

>>25461636
Thank you for the feedback! It's very helpful

The story is self contained. I wanted to write a first person stream of consciousness thing about a woman—embodying a particular archetype of woman where I grew up that's at the same time a bit foreign to me—going to a family birthday party, just for writing practice. I made up the "plot" if it can be called that as I went along. I intentionally added the "cause"s and similar words since the whole thing is supposed to be (like you picked up on) a transcription of her inner monologue/experience/etc. as events happen.

>>25461367
this will be hard to do, seeing as incels are correct about everything

>>25461404
too much tell, not enough show. too much oassive voice. run on sentences. awkward descriptions of peoples' appearances. weird metaphors (sky in an urban setting as an expanse, lighting an oil lamp snuffing out darkness).

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Would you read a novella in this style? Any other thoughts are welcome. This is a historical fiction story.

>>25461646
Women indulge in fantasy the same way men do. I don't see your reasoning. It's circular and doesn't prove anything. Women freely admit books like heated rivalry is porn. Even twilight is. What are you arguing about?

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>>25461242

> I feel myself go limp (most guys aren't going about their normal business in a constant state of sexual arousal, usually something catches their eye and it comes and goes)
> delicately secure (sounds like a lowkey compliment of the woman's grace, and too flowery compared to the brute imagery you are using)
> I don't like dead girls, that's not what I was getting at, by the way (woman-like comma usage)
> Until she exposes herself without my consent (women use the word consent in that way, not really men)

These are the telltale signs that a woman wrote this paragraph, if you're looking to sound like a man. And also, midriff instead of mid-drift.

I hope this helps :)

>>25461684
I don't read historical fiction much at all, but I will say the first two sentences aren't that interesting to me and I lose what interest I had by the time I'm through them. Maybe either get rid of them, so we just start out with him telling us his life story directly, or put something dramatic up front so that we feel a reason to care about his life story before he starts talking about how he's going to tell it to us.

>>25461684
>my life's boring
>but maybe not
>i heard this
>but maybe not
>the king did this
>but maybe not
unlike your wishy-washy narrartor, i can definitively say i would not read more of that.

>>25461121
Where is the pedophile remark coming from?
No children were mentioned, unless you assume the whores at the ice cream place must be children, which isn't explicitly stated or even implied.
If it's the only one in town there will be adult women customers.
Hell, depending on the type of neighborhood he could be talking about actual prostitutes.

Would need more evidence to say for certain that he his a pedo.

How’s my book

>>25461242
>Magenta or periwinkle... To feign individuality no doubt
>Until it isn't
Holy cringe. You, not the character.

>>25461717
Excellent.

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>>25458597
I use substack. I was using tumblr for philosophy. I think substack is fine for short stories, why not?

>>25461032
You're really good. I can see how the content could be off-putting but there's no denying the talent. Lolita comes to mind. I'd like to see what you can do when you're not taking the piss.
>>25461322
And I agree

>>25461397
I am the author of Souris. This is what I wrote today, about a degenerate who uses black magic to summon a "succubus" (who is actually just a regular girl). It's honest.

>>25461242
I am too high to tell you why but I know ether a woman or a queer wrote this.

Anyway, as a misanthrope I also hate women (and men) so I will give my thoughts since you asked.
No, that isn't what goes on in our minds. That poor attempt at stream of consciousness sounded like a feminist strawmaning a townee that made fun of her bad dye job while having a psychotic episode.
Which is fine if that is what you were going for, but I suspect that isn't what you were going for.

>>25461586
I'm not sure what the conflict is, if there is any. The tone is alright. Offhand remarks like "the manyfold sins of processed kibble," add some realism and fill out the world. My advice is to think carefully about when and why you dispense setting details, or who gets mentioned in a big cast. Charlie, MIchael, Kate, and Tanner and Thomas and Theresa and Thomas Senior... and Anna, presumably dead.

Is the purpose of this excerpt cultural anthropology? To capture middle America, while deigning to make an overt comment? I think if it's a short story, it needs more drama. If you're just trying out a voice, I like the voice.
>>25461636
I disagree with avoiding "'cause" and "or whatever," but everything else, it looks like I agree.

>>25461121
>satire is when you exaggerate a position you disagree with to demonstrate its absurdity
Meanwhile the actual definition is
>wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly (as of a person, government, or society)
>broadly : humor that criticizes weakness or wrongdoing
But I see your point that it isn’t clear from that excerpt that the writer is satirizing woman hate

>>25461717
It's really something

>>25461878
thank you for the feedback!
>Is the purpose of this excerpt cultural anthropology?
I think, accidentally and secondarily, yes. I originally meant only to practice writing a female perspective (this is maybe the third woman perspective character I've ever seriously tried to write), then refined her to specifically be an upper middle class, outgoing and social, but genuinely kind and down to earth sort of woman from a non-dysfunctional southern family. Then I thought "what is her family, which essentially defines the setting of the vacation house and most of what makes her herself, like?" and populated most of the characters (many of which are just friends, but the same principle applies) based on people I've known and seen which fit various pieces of that kind of family and culture. Some from my own family too, although adjusted a few income levels higher and more idealized (whence the self indulgence). The cake recipe hoarding thing is something my grandma did, she took the most popular ones to her grave lmao.

So, thinking about it now, I suppose by trying to make the voice realistic I pulled in a broad depiction of the nicer aspects of southern culture as I experienced them over the last few decades without consciously meaning to. Huh.

You're right that there's not really a conflict, unless you squint really hard and juxtapose the various allusions to life, death, religion, and hope and all that. Most of it wasn't very intentional or structured, but I did try to give the last line a coherent double meaning: Party is both the literal celebration event and a coherent(?) group of people, saunter means an easygoing stroll but is derived from a term for pilgrims travelling from Europe to the holy land—which was a dangerous uncertain journey, and night is literally just the night the story takes place during but, symbolically, can be read as the dark uncertainty of the future. Thank you again for reading it.

>>25461582
who are you talking to

>>25462004
Show some respect buddy. That's my future wife you're talking to.

>>25462022
>Show some respect buddy. That's my future wife you're talking to.
Shock clung to my features, my body bending before my mind processed his excellencies words.
Now in a deep the words came rushing out in a nervous stupor.
"I'm so very sorry sir, I didn't know she was the future lady Spermberg. I beg of you to punish me but not banish me from your side"
My gaze was stuck to the floor, my entire body sweating, i tried to control my breath to prepare myself to receive my well deserved punishment.

*In*
*Out*
*In...*
*Out...*
*...in...*
...
?!

My nose suddenly caught a familiar stench, a putrid, disgusting smell.
I couldn't be sure without raising my gaze, but in this situation that wasn't an option.
Had my master shat himself? I wondered, in all my years of serving him I could count on twenty three hands all the times he had shat himself, he reserved this honor only to when he was most pleased.
Could I?...
The thought entering my mind wildly, like something when it enters another thing, the possibility setting my veins in fire in excitement.
Could I have caused that reaction?
I couldn't hold back any longer, I raised my gaze, my master not only had shat himself, he was clutching the left side of his chest, he was writhing around, his face red.
It must be from excitement.
Then came his hand, he reached his full arm out, as if asking me to come to his side immediately.
I couldn't contain myself, my happiness too much, how could the master hold me in such high regard?
I fainted.


To be continued?

>>25461697
>(woman-like comma usage)
Absolutely fucking insane hahahahaha, although I do agree the writing sounds like a woman trying to caricature a man's train of thought, the first screenshot was okay, this one not so much.

Care to elaborate on the comma usage? That sounds so interesting.

>>25462255
>on twenty three hands
Kekked

>>25462255
Much better

>>25461697
hmmm okay thank you. i hope at least the first excerpt was convincing enough to pass as a man

>>25462381
>Care to elaborate on the comma usage? That sounds so interesting.
nta but i think women tend to use more commas, as we speak in streams of words. i think this is because women are conditioned to believe that if we pause for too long between speaking, we will be interuppted. hence, our penchant to punctuate our thoughts with periodic 'umms' and 'likes'. we can't risk being quiet for too long or we will lose our spotlight

>>25461671
I missed this reply completely, thank you.
Could you elaborate on the "too much tell not enough show?" I got what you meant with other advice immediately in regards to my writing, but that one I doesn't reconcile yet.

Dense, florid writers like Pynchon are best as demonstrators of what details to include in writing and what is unnecessary and can be excised. For example, I often have a bad habit of getting bogged down in describing, say, a character entering a doorway or his car, picking something up, engaging in any kind of action, really. Pynchon's novels, which contain a lot of movement and action, do a good job of illustrating what you don't actually need in order to convey the scene and image you have in mind.

More specifically, you read a scene in one of his novels where a character sneaks into a facility, and you note "oh, so aside from describing the facility, in terms of action, he only ever actually detailed X and Y, and we get a clear image of motion and progress" even though in our own writing, we might think we need Z, A, and B as well.

>>25462423
Is that your actual reasoning? I guess your experience should hold when speaking to older men, but in my experience I have never seen my male contemporaries interrupt a woman while she speaks. They actually take greater care not to interrupt her, or speak harshly to them than they do men.

Are you the author of the above screenshots? If so I recommend you read "Onani master Kurosawa-san" this work, although not the highest quality, is brief and highly relevant to your current purposes. It speaks on how to write a convincing, "fun" to read degenerate.
Most importantly it doesn't present the protagonist as one dimensional, and represents his flaws as clear evidence of his youth and retarded mentality. (He is not actually retarded)

>>25462448
Wonderful, I felt myself wrestling with the exact issue you're describing, I know I've seen action described effortlessly and not clunky the way I did, but I just couldn't summon it.

I will study his writing, any specific books you recommend?

>>25462474
Vineland is the one I'm reading right now, and I'm loving it. Plus there's a lot of action and movement, in addition to wonderful character development. Definitely a novel I see myself closely studying throughout my life for my own writing. (I don't know about others but when I'm writing and I encounter a problem I can't quite figure out how to word, I look through some of my favorite novels and see how they did it -- some novels work better as guides than others).

>>25462448
You're gaining insight but I'd like to point out that, when all's said and done, a writer should just do what works. If that means extending a character's moment by including what you may believe are "unnecessary" details like those of their trip through the doorway or reaching out to grasp an object with their clenched fist or performing any of the numerous small tasks called for to continue their peregrination, such as to increase tension/anticipation, so be it.

>>25461129
I just skimmed the whole thing. It's bad. I'll leave it up to you whether I mean good bad or bad bad. But I will say that it feels like we're more learning about where the author's head's at than getting satire of NJB.

>>25462460
they "condition" each other to believe it. like a microphone held up to a speaker. hyperreality the whole way around.

>>25462501
I'm not saying all detail is unnecessary, I just mean there's a bit more freedom than one might feel when writing, particularly in omitting a moment that isn't as crucial to understanding the scene as one might think on first thought.