George just fucking split Winds into
>The Winds of Winter
and
>A Time for Wolves
already.

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Why are the Ironborn even tolerated by the Iron Throne? Are the Isles good for anything other than being a hotbed of raiders and disloyal subjects?
Once the civil war is over, the entire archipelago should be placed under the jurisdiction of the Mallister of Seagard and all the Ironborn lords should be held as captive on the mainland until they have fully accepted the suzerainty of the Riverlords

>>25489284
Implying he wrote anything since before the pandemic.

>>25489280
Cuck literature, you love reading about other people having sex, you bunch of neckbeard Cuck virgins

Bait used to be believable, etc.

>>25489284
For that he'd need to actually write something.

>>25489268
Maybe it's a fetish thing. She can't get off unless someone is suffering, and handing over some of the most fertile land in the kingdom to a group who couldn't handle what they had gave her an incredible orgasm.

>>25489446
>most fertile land in the kingdom
How can it be the most fertile land if it's in the far north?

>>25489321
He's right I'm afraid. ASOIAF is for cucklords.

>". . . she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know . . ."

>Jaime had seen Kettleblack naked in the bathhouse, had seen the black hair on his chest, and the coarser thatch between his legs. He pictured that chest pressed against his sister's, that hair scratching the soft skin of her breasts. She would not do that. The Imp lied. Spun gold and black wire tangled, sweaty. Kettleblack's narrow cheeks clenching each time he thrust. Jaime could hear his sister moan. No. A lie. - AFFC Jaime I

>"I should have the tongues removed from all my friends," said Jaime as he filled their cups, "and from my kin as well. A silent Cersei would be sweet. Though I'd miss her tongue when we kissed." He drank. The wine was a deep red, sweet and heavy. It warmed him going down. "I can't remember when we first began to kiss. It was innocent at first. Until it wasn't." He finished the wine and set his cup aside. "Tyrion once told me that most whores will not kiss you. They'll fuck you blind, he said, but you'll never feel their lips on yours. Do you think my sister kisses Kettleblack?"

>Ser Ilyn did not answer. - AFFC Jaime VII

Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread and bacon burned black washed down with mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and winter is coming and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR

>>25489280
George R R Fartin' Martin.

>>25489291
>Are the Isles good for anything
hell of a lot of fish and marine products, probably
which is another thing that doesn't make sense in Planetos: everyone should be suffering major famines because of all the wars disrupting the status quo, and with medievalesque agriculture, you can't just double agricultural output just like that (TBF we can't either), let alone triple
he handwaved a lot of shit with the "hurr durr Highgarden is providing wayns and wayns of food" but it doesn't make sense even for the breadbasket of the Seven Kingdoms to be able to feed them all with half the continent devastated, because they needed ALL the harvest to survive in the first place

>But Martin doesn't ask the question: What was Westeros's agricultural policy? ... What did he do in times of flood and famine?

I'm going to write a Golden Company and Late Bronze Age fic one day

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Where the FUCK are Blackfyre and Dark Sister?

>>25489846
The golden company probably has blackfye

>>25489846
Bloodraven has Dark Sister up his barky ass and TRUE Aegon will be flexing Blackfyre when he makes it to Kings Landing

>>25488491
he's kind of right

George found success too late in life and now wants to do everything and writing doesn't hit the same. He writes a lot but it's not productive and he doesn't know how to end the story in two books and his refusal to split Winds into two books is the larger issue. He's trying to put a square peg into a circle by saying "the pacing for the story needs ADWD to be the end of Act 2 and Act 3 to be two books long" but the pacing is all out of wonk because Act 2 and 3 were originally Dany and the Other's invasions of westeros respectively, and now they're both going to happen at the same time.

He had that blog post where he was asking himself "Do I try to course correct the tv show(s), or do I say fuck it and focus on finishing the books?" and unfortunately his perfectionism pushed him to try to do both and accomplish neither.

>>25489873
>Hodor will be among the wielders of Dark Sister

kino

>>25489873
>up his barky ass
I couldn't remember who Bloodraven was, then I did and laughed

>>25489930
GRRM is old and past it, everything else is cope or waffle

look, he's 78 years old this year, statistically he's a goner
if I were him, I'd say "fuck it" and just enjoy what remaining life I have rather than faff about with fantasy fiction
especially given his millions of dollars now
it's not like ASOIAF is some great mankind-changing magnum opus that would be a meaningful legacy that it would be worth him using his last days to finish

also, everything he blogs now might well be some publisher-mandated guerilla marketing campaign to keep fans hooked, knowing full well that he's not going to finish it
if I were the publisher I'd make him do that, so that fans are hooked all the way until the day he croaks and Daniel Abraham finishes the series

and at 78, his mind is probably going, anything he writes now is probably slop compared to earlier

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Was Brandon the Burner literally braindead? Why sabotage your house to such a degree just because your fee-fees were hurt?

>>25489484
You know there are exactly zero readers who like Cersei and want her to win, right?

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>I love my sister's tight pussy so much
What did Aemon mean by this?

>>25490105
Nymeria did the same thing with her ten thousand ships
Nobody says shit about that

>>25489472
Im the North rather than the seven kingdoms. It's either in fire and blood or one of the character conversations. Forget, tee bee haich. As for the mechanics: magic wall proximity?

>>25490318
It just doesn't make any sense. Even if the wall provided some magical soil fertility, why would the area be so poorly populated? Fucking Mole's Town seems to be the biggest settlement in this apparently very fertile area and it's a poverty-stricken shithole.

>>25490363
Nobody's mining for silver in the vale either, but here we are. Should be goddamned full of the stuff with the way George likes to stick to geography. And Essos, for all he claims the maester maps are inaccurate, looks like an erection from a penile implant and a phaloplasty.

>>25489446
>most fertile land
gross exaggeration
>>25490318
>character conversations
Storm Of Swords, Chapter 40
Jojen picks up a handful of soil and remarks that it's good soil
from there you spun all this fanfiction

reality is that World Of Ice And Fire stated bluntly that the North is far less fertile than southern kingdoms

>>25490363
>why would the area be so poorly populated?
raiders and Night Watch neglect
it's a vicious cycle, Night Watch fucks up, people suffer, people leave, Night Watch gets fewer recruits and stupider, Night Watch fucks up some more, et cetera
but it begins with nobody giving a shit about the Night Watch for centuries basically

>>25490415
>raiders and Night Watch neglect
But do the Night Watch micromanage the area or what? If people wanted to move in to farm the fertile soil, would the NW tell them to fuck off? Cause otherwise this still doesn't make sense.
I understand the raiding argument, but frankly I can't imagine that raiding is so pronounced this would depopulate the area. Wildling raids are pretty rare and they don't involve that many people at any given time. Meanwhile the North is gigantic.

>>25490426
>do the Night Watch micromanage the area
I think they were meant to do so but do not by the time of the books; or at least we don't see any Lord Commander doing any land management work at all
>If people wanted to move in to farm the fertile soil, would the NW tell them to fuck off?
they'd probably be welcome so long as the Watch gets their taxes
the whole problem is that people would rather pay taxes to someone else
>I can't imagine that raiding is so pronounced this would depopulate the area. Wildling raids are pretty rare and they don't involve that many people at any given time. Meanwhile the North is gigantic
it's a matter of relativity. IIRC the rest of the North has been peaceful for decades. but wildling raiders have been growing in power, so why would you, as a peasant, risk your neck working on the Gift for a bunch of idiots who can't defend you?

also, look at the administrative capabilities of the Watch. how good do you think they are at settling disputes and overseeing civic programmes and such? certainly not as good as the other Seven Kingdoms. so why not work for them instead?
it would seem to me that the Gift only attracts a very independent, pioneering sort of peasant, and at some considerable risk to life and limb
*I* certainly wouldn't risk having the Weeper drop in out of the blue.

also there might be a bit of Hotel California syndrome here, given that Westeros is based on medieval customs: usually, peasants weren't allowed to leave their lord. so if they left the Gift and joined, say, House Karstark, probably they would never be able to go back even if they wanted to, unless Karstark wants to support the Watch.
and again, this all goes back to: nobody gave a damn about the Watch.

>>25490447
>so why would you, as a peasant, risk your neck working on the Gift for a bunch of idiots who can't defend you?
Cause it's the most fertile area in the north apparently and most of the land is a frozen shithole to such a degree that it's normal for men to just kill themselves during winter times?
>I think they were meant to do so but do not by the time of the books
But they got the new gift more than 200 years prior to the main story.

Can you all stop blaming George?

The reason why he’s taking so long is because the show ended as a failure and he’s considering how people will interpret the books.

The showrunners tore out his passion by butchering his world. Condal really did a number on him.

I blame the people who make the shows more than George. If they didn’t shit the bed I guarantee you he’d be more happy to finish.

But now he’s coping and considering all the different alternatives.

Also the fandom is pure piss and seems to be incapable of actually enjoying the books.

>>25489970
>and at 78, his mind is probably going, anything he writes now is probably slop compared to earlier
Idk I find his earlier books a lot sillier due to all the later world building that came later. His vision of the world has changed a lot over the decades. I believe Asshai was going to be a lot closer to Qarth before.

>>25490490
>all the later world building that came later

>>25490486
>The reason why he’s taking so long is because the show ended as a failure and he’s considering how people will interpret the books.
This is a major cope. The show ran from from 2011-2019 and he spent the entire time gallivanting around the world fucking whores, and attending parties and conventions instead of doing any writing. He found mainstream success late in life and decided to retire off it, simple as

>>25490452
>Cause it's the most fertile area in the north apparently
See
>>25490415
>Storm Of Swords, Chapter 40
>Jojen picks up a handful of soil and remarks that it's good soil
>from there you spun all this fanfiction

>>25490490
AFFC was 20 years ago, when he was in his 50s, possibly the sweet spot of energy and maturity in most people
He's now pushing 80

>>25490486
Game of thrones ending was basically George’s ending, and the dance of dragons was shit writing anyway

>>25490490
His earlier books are way more mature. ADWD is definitely the most juvenile.

>>25490587
In some way I expected the whole ''It truly was a song of ice and fire'' shit. But I am still pissed about the Others not being explained at all. Who? Why? How? Doesn't matter. They die via killswitch in the show, and probably ends the same in the books. What a waste. All that build up for NOTHING.

GEEEEEOOOOORRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anon is not wrong. The ending of GoT killed his true interest in finishing the books.

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how do you think their romance will go in the books if it ever comes out ?

>>25490856
Short and tragic

>>25489291
When the Targaryens went to war they could rely on the Iron fleet to BTFO any Essosi sissies at sea.
They are meant to be genuinely elite at sea, even against terrible odds.

>>25489291
They are useful sometimes.
The notion that all Ironborn can do is raid is a false one. This is the Old Way, but New Way is prevalent on the Iron Islands too. They trade, they mine, they even have some little farmland. Houses like Harlaws and Goodbrothers are heavily involved in that. In Asha chapters there is a mention how she sailed to Arbor for trade for example.
During the Ninepenny Kings they made up a majority of naval force deployed to the Stepstones, and in some other Blackfyre rebellion they captured Bittersteel and sold him to the Targs. In the Dance they succesfully keep Lannisters occupied for the Blacks, which ensured there will be no reinforcement to the Lannister campaign in the Riverlands. Sure, Dalton later went rogue, but after he died to some salt wife the problem solved itself, the Iron Throne did not even need to react (by the time they got here it was all over). Dagon and Balon rebelled, but it was just these two during the 300 years. They are not so troublesome as some think. In comparison, Stormlands rebelled three times (Rogar, Lyonel and Robert).
It's just the Iron Islands we see in the books are ruled by an old boomer who lives in the past, and a literal fucking antichrist, so the readers opinions will be skewed.

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>>25490872
>They are meant to be genuinely elite at sea
Yeah....

>>25490878
That battle is to show that Stannis is such an absolute gigachad that he even defeated the ironborn at sea

>>25490856
>Sunset found her squatting on his face

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>>25490633
>But I am still pissed about the Others not being explained at all
They were literally explained. Invaders from across the sea started burning wierwoods again after the first men already had a pact with the children, and in their desperation to create a counter to the invaders they captured their leader and sacrificed him on a wierwood with a cursed piece of obsidian through the heart turning him into the first other

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>>25490907
Here’s what young night king would have looked like if the bloodmoon show wasn’t cancelled

>>25490907
>>25490965
Not canon

>>25490856
But anon, how can they romance if Jon is dead?

>>25490991
The basic idea is George’s, with some show OC inventions
Like him being Andal instead of empire of dawn diaspora steppe raider proto Andal/dothrak/hyrkoonian horde

How is the Watch short on manpower to begin with? Surely with the amount of crimes that can be punished by death and people would be sent there fairly often? Do you expect me to believe that they have infrastructure to bring in two random rapists from the Fingers but can’t absorb the criminal population of the north? Or some urban poor from Flea Bottom? I could understand them being short on nights, maybe but there’s no reason they should have so many empty castles.

>>25491007
Plot contrivance. Not much makes sense about any organization in asoiaf since George is more pre-occupied with how things feel, except how many limbs dragons have. The templars were a big organization where very few were actual knights or men-at-arms. Most were doing administrative or day-to-day work so everyone moved along. They had farms, hospitals, orphanages, charities and ran a bank that was very successful. Now you would join and serve for life and live like a monk, but they were still popular. But, they had short-term service available too, so they never needed to worry about manpower. Why is the Night's Watch for fucking life and forbids marriage, children or having sex?

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>>25489291

After Baleon's Chimpout, Robert should have genocided the Ironborn nobility (and honestly, most of the peasantry) and bestowed the Iron Isles to Stannis as his demesne, while granting lands and titles to various loyal 2nd and 3rd sons from noble families from the mainland.

This would have give the Baratheon dynasty a cadet house on the west coast as well as on the east coast (Renly at Stormsend) supporting the Crownlands.

And Stannis is now less pissed off as he has a viable holding of his own (he would have been booted from Dragonstone when Joffrey turned 16) with an income and bannermen.

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>>25490907
>after the first men already had a pact with the children

Those men turned into magical bio-weapons by the Children of the Forest were First Men, the pact came after the Long Night, which the CotF inadvertently brought out when their Frankenstein's monster turned on them (and every living thing).

>>25491371
>Why is the Night's Watch for fucking life and forbids marriage, children or having sex?

Sex isn't banned, just having kids and marrying and those are banned to maintain loyalty to the Nights Watch and not families and children.

>>25491371
>The templars were a big organization

But when their reason for being petered out, they did also.

>>25491506
People desert all the time because the watch sucks. Of they have families they'll stay to defend those. That's how the Romans did it at their borders.

>>25489280
cool industry plant thread

>>25490486
The mad king play basically says Dany is gonna go crazy. So the idea that the show fucked up George's plans/passion is horseshit since he's doing the same shit in the play and thus the books.

>>25490856
A love triangle will happen. Jon, Dany and fAegon. Dany is gonna be forced to choose one and also grapple with the idea of not being the legitimate heir to House Targaryen and wanting to finally have her own home with one of these guys.

I expect Jon to not give a damm so it could maybe have fAegon liking Dany, Dany liking Jon and Jon just wanting to kill everyone who fucked over the Starks and finding the survivors.

>>25490907
More fanfiction

>>25491561
I am or was (if it never gets released) the most excited to see what new undead jon is gonna be like. I think it's pretty obvious he wargs into ghost and then aftewards becomes more wolfish so when he comes back it will be cool to watch him be more ruthless and vicious. It will also be interesting to see how he is perceived from other POV chapters and people in general. After he gets raised from the dead by a red witch and leads an army of wildlings and nights watch he will basically be the second coming of the nights king at that point. Will be interesting to see how his interactions with Dany will go at that point as well.

>>25491540
>People desert all the time because the watch sucks.

Except they don't as there's nowhere to go, this being a quasi-medieval society where most live their entire lives just a few miles from the village where they were born and thus they know everybody around them.

Some random dude walking out of the woods isn't going to be able to join the village, they'll immediately recognize him as an outsider and rat him out as an obvious deserter from the Nights Watch.

>>25491007
>How is the Watch short on manpower to begin with?
People hate being sent to do a cold pointless job for life
>Surely with the amount of crimes that can be punished by death and people would be sent there fairly often?
The Seven Kingdoms probably have their own prison systems which peasants apparently prefer over the fucking Watch, and the rulers themselves probably prefer not to arm the Watch too well
remember, it's the ruler's prerogative to permit them to take the black, and as has been repeated countless times, NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE WATCH
>Or some urban poor from Flea Bottom?
they don't give a damn either

>>25491371
the Templars lived quite well iin comparison with the peasants, that was one factor in their downfall

>>25491540
>[If] they have families they'll stay to defend those
how's that working out for the Northern lords?
oh wait, it didn't work out, that's why the Watch was founded
likewise, IRL the Templars (and other holy orders) were founded specifically to fulfil a need that had opened up because the lords were busy defending their families from other threats instead of focusing on this particular threat

>People desert all the time
the very first chapter of the very first book shows what happens to those who desert
the Watch grew weaker more because recruitment was below replacement rate for centuries and, once again, NOBODY GAVE A DAMN

>>25491465
>And Stannis is now less pissed off
He'd still be pretty pissed off though. The Iron Islands are the biggest shithole in Westeros and Stannis would still want Storm's End rather than Pyke (or whatever other castle he took for his seat, Ten Tower's might be better), it is after all his by right of birth and blood.

>>25491465
>Robert should have genocided the Ironborn
in making his setting medieval-inspired GRRM baked in a chivalric distaste for atrocity, so that's out
ultimately there are only 2 reasons why states aren't genocided, and they are either 1) the juice is not worth the squeeze, or 2) culturally the would-be conqueror prefers not to
in Westeros Tywin is considered ruthless in part because of his genociding the Reynes
never mind several Houses worth of ironborn

>>25491677
>He'd still be pretty pissed off though
yeah, this is fucking Stannis we're talking about here, he complained about Jon but he himself is a nagging shrew with a dick

Turns out being told you're gonna hang out with rapists and murderers while freezing your balls off, isn't the best recruitment strategy.

>>25491652
But they do, we have so many deserters in the story. The one Ned decapitates, the ones that led Osha and the other wildlings past the wall, Mance, the one that leaves in Bravos etc. Let's not forget the mutineers that killed Jeor either.
>>25491667
The templars had the same rules as any other order of monks except more meat rations since they were expected to fight. They weren't even allowed to sleep in the dark or talk to each other during meals ro prevent homosexual relations.

The northern lords have been doing fine for thousands of years except for a few southern ventures. But the watch also had tens of thousands of members during that time. How? It's the same organization. Man, the fucking song of ice and fire prophecy that made Aegon conquer the realm is so dumb since the watch immediately fell into disrepair under Targ rule.

>>25491771
>The templars had the same rules as any other order of monks
and the monks still lived significantly better than most peasants, due to their protected status
it's a matter of relativity

>since the watch immediately fell into disrepair under Targ rule
they had been slowly deteriorating for literal millennia, never mind the Targs

>the watch also had tens of thousands of members during that time
nope

also, you'll notice that the northern lords are happy to provide food and a small number of recruits, but not actually unfuck the structural problems with the Watch or provide recruits even at the replacement rate. all their respect and honour for the Watch didn't amount to enough to actually stop its deterioration
again: nobody gave a damn, not enough to matter

>>25491780
When Aegon landed the Night's Watch numbered ten thousand.

>>25491790
and unless the meaning of words has somehow changed, that is ten thousand shy of being the barest minimum to be
>tens of thousands of members
and some would argue that "tens" should really mean at least thirty, otherwise there's a touch of gilding the lily to that usage

and that also shows that going from say twenty thousand to ten thousand wasn't a consequence of
>immediately fell into disrepair under Targ rule
but was a reduction that happened before Aegon ever landed
you might argue that the Targs accelerated the process, sure, but it was already happening

>>25489057
Interesting idea. I think coldhands was one of the last heroes 12 companions rather than the last hero himself, since I think the last hero cast the weirwoodnet out of the weirwood tree network and thus created the Others. Bran's job will be to download the last hero, and probably the other 11 compaions inside the Hear tof Winter (a frozen weirwood tree) to make room for the Others to go back inside.
The Last hero may have also be Hugor the Hill

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I don't understand Balon.

Why did he hate the north and the Starks more than the Baratheons and the Iron Throne?
Did Ned talk down to him or something during his surrender and that's why he kept such a grudge? Otherwise I don't see any reason, Theon was taken care of at Winterfell.

>>25491998
>Theon was taken care of at Winterfell
It's this part specifically that bothered him. If they had killed him, that would be one thing, but they turned him into a fag who wears gold he didn't take from a corpse he made. And while Balon should hold a grudge against Robert, his feelings against the Lannisters probably aren't as strong, considering that the Iron Fleet beat them handily and they had to be bailed out by Stannis, the Redwynes and the Hightowers. Trying to hold the entirety of the North was still retarded though and Balon is clearly incapable of rational decision making. Which is probably why the Ironborn love him so much.

>>25492010
>but they turned him into a fag
How would he even know, though? He talked to him for the first time when Theon showed up to propose the alliance and it was clear he had already made up his mind to attack the north before that.

>>25492013
That's a good point, but Balon mentions that he already feared that Theon would be made soft by the Starks and it would be like Balon to get mad about a scenario that he made up in his head.

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Why have no Westerosi kings or Lord Paramounts attempted to centralise their realms?

>>25491998
literally everybody in the fucking series from Dorne to Dustin is harbouring some kind of secret grudge against somebody that they're willing to go to war for, stop being an idiot
amongst other things, the ironborn were all chafing under the Pax Baratheon status quo because they're raiders and rapists at heart, had to be forced to bend the knee, and had always been waiting for an opportunity to rebel

>Why did he hate the north and the Starks more than the Baratheons and the Iron Throne?
who says they hated the Starks particularly? they just picked on the North first because they were the weakest and nearest
they're perfectly happy to attack the Arbor and Oldtown

the real question is why the fuck haven't they attacked Lannisport. unless they really do fear the Lannisters more than they fear the Tyrells
they seem to also have left Bear Island alone, probably because they know it'd be a tough fight

>>25492041
But Baratheon isn't the one that forced them to stop reaving Westeros, that was Aegon and it happened centuries prior.
>who says they hated the Starks particularly?
Cause they refused an obvious alliance and instead of attacking the wealthy south they decided it would be better to over-extend in the poor as shit north instead.
>the real question is why the fuck haven't they attacked Lannisport
They didn't want to fight the iron throne, that's why the sent Tywin and Joffrey deal offers on how to split the territory between them.

That's my point. This decision makes no sense unless Balon hated the Starks in particular.

>>25492056
>that was Aegon and it happened centuries prior.
Greyjoy Rebellion
>instead of attacking the wealthy south they decided it would be better to over-extend in the poor as shit north instead
they did both, and the common denominator as I pointed out is that they avoided the strongholds and hit weak and rich targets
>the sent Tywin and Joffrey deal offers on how to split the territory
must've forgotten that

>>25492063
>Greyjoy Rebellion
Nothing to do with the limitations on paying the iron price.
>they did both
No, they didn't. It was Euron that attacked the south, not Balon.

>>25492066
>Nothing to do with the limitations on paying the iron price
from World Of Ice And Fire, the last part of the Iron Islands section:
>At fifteen [Balon Greyjoy] spent a summer in the Stepstones, reaving.
and
>...Balon Greyjoy unlawfully rose against his king not for any harm done to him or his people but merely out of wanton ambition.
and
>...even as a child, Lord Balon had burned to free the ironborn from the yoke of the Iron Throne and restore them to a place of pride and power. Once seated on the Seastone Chair, he swept away many of his lord father's decrees, abolishing the taxes on salt wiaves and declaring that men taken captive in war could indeed be kept as thralls.

I solved my own question too; in COK he also tells Theon outright that he fears the strength of Tywin and knows he "wouldn't be able to hold Lannisport".

>It was Euron that attacked the south, not Balon
ah right
but TBF Victarion and the other captains agreed to it

>>25492096
Maybe I'm retarded but I have no idea what you're trying to say.

It was not Robert that put the restrictions on the Ironborn to not reave Westeros, it was Aegon. Balon wanting to get those rights back still doesn't explain why he would sperg at the north more than the south.

>>25492102
>It was not Robert that put the restrictions on the Ironborn to not reave Westeros
Robert didn't permit the ironborn to reave
to Balon, that's the same thing
especially since Balon specifically rebelled in order to restore the reaving ways, and Robert, Stannis and Ned crushed his rebellion

and mind you, Balon is not entirely wrong
IRL you cannot excuse yourself, whether at work or on the international stage, saying that "my predecessor laid down these regulations, blame him; I won't change it and it's not my fault even if I have the authority to do so now"
that excuse won't wash

>why he would sperg at the north more than the south
in COK he tells Theon that he fears Tywin and would rather take the North

>>25492114
>to Balon, that's the same thing
Ok, how exactly does this play into our conversation? If anything this is an argument in favor of my position.
>in COK he tells Theon that he fears Tywin and would rather take the North
Do you have the quote?

>>25492124
>If anything this is an argument in favor of my position
funny. because now you're claiming that you were arguing against yourself when you said that
>Baratheon isn't the one that forced them to stop reaving Westeros, that was Aegon and it happened centuries prior

anyway,
>Do you have the quote?
"I mean to carve out a kingdom with fire and sword... but not from the west, and not at the bidding of King Robb the Boy. Casterly Rock is too strong, and Lord Tywin too cunning by half. Aye, we might take Lannisport, but we should never keep it. No. I hunger for a different plum... not so juicy sweet, to be sure, yet it hangs there ripe and undefended."

meaning the entirety of the North, or at least the bits near him, as he explains in the next Theon chapter

>>25492133
No, my position was always that Balon has no actual reason to hate the Starks more than the Baratheons. You saying that Balon is blaming Robert for not being able to reave Westeros is basically agreeing with that premise.

I read the quote. Strange that he wanted to conquer land to begin with. That wouldn't really help him with reaving.

I guess he was just retarded.

>>25492143
>Strange that he wanted to conquer land to begin with. That wouldn't really help him with reaving
1stly, look at the map. in his position, there's nothing to reave if he doesn't conquer land, he'd otherwise have to travel all around Westeros to Essos, as he did when reaving the Stepstones
2ndly, not only does he need to fight Westeros if he wants to be able to reave closer to home, the act of fighting Westeros itself involves reaving, which is what he loves, and a stated goal of conquest would give him a casus belli (such as it is) to reave the other kingdoms
the two goals are mutually supporting; if he conquers he can reave and he can only reave if he conquers

in fact, it works out even better for him if he doesn't manage to conquer the whole of Westeros; he would be able to reave to his heart's content as the ironborn did of old
it's exactly what the Aztecs did, and other raiding cultures like the Vikings and the Caliphates: let their neighbours plant and build, then raid them
much easier than building your own civilisation up the peaceful way

>my position was always that Balon has no actual reason to hate the Starks more than the Baratheons
I see. your position is confusing, because you also said:
>they refused an obvious alliance and instead of attacking the wealthy south they decided it would be better to over-extend in the poor as shit north instead
>This decision makes no sense unless Balon hated the Starks in particular

well the answer is: no, he didn't hate the Starks more than the Baratheons
he just wants to reave and Westeros is right there

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>>25492164
>1stly, look at the map. in his position, there's nothing to reave if he doesn't conquer land

>>25492170
it took me a while to understand your objection
okay, let me rephrase that: in his position, there's nothing to reave nearby if he doesn't lay claim to Westerosi lands

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>>25491677
>He'd still be pretty pissed off though.

Sure, that's his nature but the point is that Dragonstone would go to Joffrey when he turned 16 and Stannis would be out on his ass. Granting him the Iron Isles would have made him a "duke" with income and bannermen and given the Baratheon dynasty a loyal force on the west coast of the continent.

>>25491698
>a chivalric distaste for atrocity

I'd say it's more a case of GRRM needing the Ironborn for the story.

>>25491771
>But they do, we have so many deserters in the story.

We see a few deserters who are important to the story but otherwise, there is nowhere to go so most stay. Fleeing north to the Wildings will almost always result in death, fleeing south will get you the same thing and whats the odds you can get stationed on a Nights Watch ship that makes port in Braavos or Pentos?

>>25492360
To be fair, it seems like the only deserters that get caught are the ones that never change their clothes.

Had Arya not been there, do you think Dareon would ever have faced justice? Nobody gave a shit at all except Arya

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>>25492102
>doesn't explain why he would sperg at the north more than the south.

The Ironborn need land but trying to recreate the Kingdom of the Rivers and Isles in the Riverlands isn't an option anymore but the underpopulated North has plenty of land.

Balon didn't plan on conquering the entire North or even capturing Winterfell, he wanted colonies along the coast that could be defended and supported by the Iron Isles.

>>25492361
>To be fair, it seems like the only deserters that get caught are the ones that never change their clothes.

As I mentioned above, you can't just run off to a random village, they'll rat you out to the local lord and he'll chop your head off.

>Had Arya not been there, do you think Dareon would ever have faced justice? Nobody gave a shit at all except Arya

Sure, but how often is the Nights Watch sending ships to Essos? Dareon only got the opportunity because of the particular situation at the time.

Speaking of Dareon
How retarded was that idea? Jon actually thought some random dude would hear this asshole singing and journey across the world to die in a frozen shithole? Thats insane

>>25492360
>it's more a case of GRRM needing the Ironborn for the story
That's the Doylist answer obviously

>>25492386
Making the best out of a shitty Watch
And Dareon WAS a good and persuasive troubadour it seems, only real problem is that the rat bastard abandoned his mission

>>25492360
>Dragonstone would go to Joffrey when he turned 16
That is how the Targaryens did things, but is it actually said anywhere that Robert intended for Dragonstone to go to Joffrey? I doubt it, especially because Stannis was styled as Lord of Dragonstone instead of Prince, which suggests that Dragonstone is treated more like a regular title. And Stannis does have his own bannermen the lords of the Narrow Sea come from when he calls for them as if he were their regular liege lord rather than just an official appointed by the king.

>>25492386
Jon was brought to the Wall in part because of his idealism and since it works on him he probably thinks it might work on others. Still retarded though and he should've seen it coming that Dareon would desert at the earliest opportunity.

>>25492386
>>25492438
As always, the real problem is Sam not being firmer with Dareon
Sorry, but GRRM took too long, too many books, too many good dead men for Sam to have some kind of epic redemption arc or whatever. I don't give a fuck anymore. Sam's used up his nine lives with me. Qyburn can torture him to death and I wouldn't give a damn. In fact, the sooner the better, so he doesn't kill any more good men with his total blundering.

Considering that Sam is widely regarded as a kind of self-reference, that's kinda pottery

>>25492438
Lets not forget that the Baratheons ARE Valyrian. The house was founded by Aegon's bastard brother after all and frequently married Targaryens afterwards.

>>25492469
But they emphasize their Durrandon roots far more than their Valyrian heritage. Robert, who had final say on who Dragonstone would go to, didn't really care about his Targ heritage.

>>25492438
Fucking Chrome swallowed a longer post
TLDR no you're wrong

>especially because Stannis was styled as Lord of Dragonstone instead of Prince, which suggests that
he was thrown a bone and would soon be out on his ass unless assigned additional lands and incomes, because THE Prince/ss Of Dragonstone is consistently used throughout as the style of the king's heir

>Stannis does have his own bannermen the lords of the Narrow Sea come from when he calls for them
Because he was still Lord Of Dragonstone. Joffrey was not yet THE Prince Of Dragonstone, as he was underage. He's only *a* prince of Dragonstone, just as Myrcella and Tommen are also a princess and a prince of Dragonstone. There's a difference. One is the rightful liege, the other means they come from there.
Right now for example, if William, Prince Of Wales, were to call the Welsh banners against his underage son Prince George of Wales, which prince would the bannermen by rights do fealty to? William, Prince Of Wales.
That's why the format of his style is always Name, Prince Of Wales, whereas his children are Prince/ss Name, Of Wales. Slight but important difference.

It would have been a bit less confusing if the styles had been Prince Of Wales and Prince From Wales, but eh, that's English for you.

>>25492484
The seed is strong

>>25492519
>consistently used throughout as the style of the king's heir
It is used consistently up until the end of Targaryen rule, but neither Joffrey nor Tommen are ever referred to as Prince of Dragonstone. Daenerys is referred to as Princess of Dragonstone in AGOT, which means that GRRM had already conceived of the title and the Baratheons not using it was an intentional detail and not just an oversight.

>>25490597
Uh. No. His earlier books are a lot more juvenile.

Inb4 “muh Darkstar”

>>25492644
You mean the pre-asoiaf books? I wouldn't know about that.

I was just talking about ASOIAF specifically.

Will Stoneheart find out about Jon's true parentage and Ned's lie before she permadies? And if she does, would she soften toward him and be supportive of him as king in Winterfell/all Westeros?

>>25492671
She probably wont even remember him
Beric lost his memories
All but his purpose

>>25492671
>And if she does, would she soften toward him and be supportive of him as king in Winterfell/all Westeros?
This is the same woman who viewed Mya as literal subhuman the moment she spoke her entire name.
>My name is Mya...
>Oh she is such a sweet gir-
>Stone
>I HOPE YOU DIE YOU BASTARD MONSTER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOU

>>25492671
No she would still hate him because she’s a vengeful fire zombie

>>25492708
yeah but the whole reason for that was because she hates bastard jon
if he's not actually a bastard does it matter anymore

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?

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First timer here

After reading Blood meridian, any other book seems rather easy to get into now. Im now at page 70

The latter books are more childish and immature in areas. Like the Faceless Men.

George seems to think they’re capable of killing every single Targaryen or something.

“If-if you send to dragons on us, w-we’ll resort to the faceless to take you out!”

He’s done this like three times already. I bet he really does think that they single handedly caused the Doom.

>>25492655
>I was just talking about ASOIAF specifically.
They’re perfectly fucking fine outside of cringe anime shit like Darkstar or the Faceless

>>25492957
>tyrion saying cock and cunt every sentence
>tons of scenes of people shitting themselves described in detail, including daenerys
>practically all third party overheard dialogue being vulgar
Martin is a perverted numale, the only difference between him and the average bluesky poster is that he doesn't hide being a pedo and he likes edgy shit.

>>25492968
Even the queen shit and had a POV of herself shitting you huge dumbass.

>>25492984
Wanna try typing that out again, retard?

>>25492987
I’m sorry, SHAT herself.

>>25492990
I don't understand how you're disagreeing with me.

>>25492994
I assumed you thought poo poo and blood and cuss words are a childish combination when medieval humans are going to pissing and shitting and yelling and swearing and killing from their own point of views. It’s literally unavoidable.

>>25493003
The existence of pissing and shitting was not brought into question.

You think people didn't piss and shit lore-wise in LOTR?

>>25493007
Elves definitely dont

>>25492954
You dont think shapeshifting assassins are dangerous?
They killed Balon

>>25492594
>neither Joffrey nor Tommen are ever referred to as Prince of Dragonstone
possibly because they are underage
Joffrey *is* referred to as the Crown Prince, which helps clear up confusion for readers unfamiliar with this system
but anyway, that's besides the point from the matter of the bannermen. titles and rights are separate, as in fact is explained in, I think, AFFC?

>>25492671
>Stoneheart
>soften
lol
lmao

>>25493028
I think a shapeshifting assassin should still get absolutely fucking destroyed by people like Sandor if they get caught out in the open.

>>25493007
Lotr wasn’t written in first person

>>25493224
What difference does that make?
You think if it's 1st person shitting yourself or witnessing other people shitting themselves must be recorded in detail?

>>25493230
>You think if it's 1st person shitting yourself or witnessing other people shitting themselves must be recorded in detail?
Yes. Absolutely.

>>25493230
Daenerys shat in the grass anon.

>>25493232
Mr Martin what are you doing posting on 4chan? You have to finish Twow.

>>25493223
They would never get caught out in the open

>>25493242
A red priest sees them in their fires and sends their guards after them.

Not even. Even in one of their disguises they aren’t immune to being surrounded.

The faceless men aren’t ninjas they’re just really sneaky

They're better than ninja
Look at Arya's merchant assassination
She killed him with a coin
How do you guard against that

>>25492954
>Like the Faceless Men.

He's clearly modeling them after the filthy Tleilaxu Face Dancers from "Dune" while adding his own restrictions and such.

>>25493334
and both Faceless Men and Face Dancers are clearly modelled after the Hashashins and Shinobi

>>25493242
One of them gets caught randomly and needs Arya to save him from burning to death in his cage.

You guys think a direwolf could sniff out a faceless man? Both Ghost and Grey Wind seemed to foresee the red wedding and mutiny well in advance but nobody listened.

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>>25492968
>practically all third party overheard dialogue being vulgar

People did swear in oldy timey days. My gripe is GRRM writing dialog for his educated noble characters (including maesters) using contractions, like "isn't" and "won't" and such.

I don't think he notices he has them speaking in his modern day casual English, when that ought to be limited to the lower class characters.

>>25493361
>People did swear in oldy timey days.
That wasn't the complaint.
>I don't think he notices he has them speaking in his modern day casual English
Roose I think mentions it to Theon once, but it really doesn't matter since all characters talk in pretty much modern slang, nobles and peasants alike.

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>>25493337
>both Faceless Men and Face Dancers are clearly modelled after the Hashashins and Shinobi

Those aren't magical. Also, "shinobi"?...

>>25493316
Be immune to poison duh

>>25493364
Assassins were rumoured to practiced or dabble in the dark arts.

The faceless are dabblers, not legitimate sorcerers like the shadowbinders, who can queef out killer queefs that put any faceless man to shame.

>>25490907
It's so....basic. A fantasy race of ice elves trying to exterminate humans to expand their own borders/culture sounded better. Plus, didn't the first men invade AFTER the long night? It's been a while but I don't think the timelines match.

>>25492954
I personally like the further east you go, the weirder shit gets. It feels like the whole point of the series. You have westerosi seething and killing eachother over imagined slights or family conflicts, while they're surrounded by ever growing horrors.

>>25490190
i like her and want her to win. her chapters are great.
Jaime chapters are kino too.

>>25488491
cringe video
>>25489930
do normalfags really need a 30 minute video to feel empathy for someone who found success very late in his life?

>>25490597
fuck you. ADWD gave us the best paragraph ever written by anyone ever

>>25490856
>she'll think of Daario when they kiss
>she'll think of Drogo when they fuck
>she'll think of Jorah whenever she looks at him

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>>25493433
What do you like about someone who'd
1) Fuck her own brother
2) Without even being loyal to him after taking this terrible path?

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>>25489970
>look, he's 78 years old this year, statistically he's a goner
>if I were him, I'd say "fuck it"
I'm fairly sure he said "fuck it" back in 2012

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>>25493473
she's hot and her chapters are great. she fucked others because he wasn't there to fuck her and she cracked.

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>>25490874
The few peaceful economic activities Ironmen enjoy are fishing, raising sheep and smithing.
They'd rather use slaves, oops I mean indentured servants, to work in their mines. Another example of cultural eccentricity compared to the mainland.
Perhaps it'd be best to have free people from the Westerlands work in those iron mines?

Maybe the Lannisters can be exiled there?

>>25493485
>she fucked others because he wasn't there to fuck her and she cracked.
I can't believe I have to say this on 4chan of all places, but masturbation is a thing for people who have needs but don't want to cheat on a distant partner

>>25493498
and for the after cuddles?

>>25492039
The maesters drug all lords to make them retarded.

>>25493113
>possibly because they are underage
I resorted to drastic measures and consulted Fire and Blood and Jaehaerys I bestowed the title on Aemon when he was seven years old, so there have in fact been underage Princes of Dragonstone.
>explained in, I think, AFFC?
Think you might be referring to what Rodrik the Reader tells Asha, where he would name her heir to Ten Towers but not heir all of Harlaw, which does prove that seats don't necessarily come with all the bannermen they traditionally have. You have a similar arrangement in the North in ADWD, where Ramsay is Lord of Winterfell, but Roose is still the one who rules the North.

>>25493364
>Those aren't magical.
So clearly Azor Ahai's magic sword wasn't based on IRL swords? Idiot
>Also, "shinobi"?...
"Ninja" to you plebs

>>25493555
>Jaehaerys I bestowed the title on Aemon when he was seven years old, so there have in fact been underage Princes of Dragonstone
Yeah but I'm just pointing out that Tommen and Myrcella were also at the same time titled prince and princess of Dragonstone, and before being made THE Prince Of Dragonstone, Joffrey would still have been a prince of Dragonstone

>Rodrik the Reader tells Asha, where he would name her heir to Ten Towers but not heir all of Harlaw, which does prove that seats don't necessarily come with all the bannermen they traditionally have
Also Genna Lannister's husband, Somethingorother Frey, is made Lord of Riverrun but Walder Frey is Lord of the Riverlands or some shit like that
Yeah the point is that incomes, tenants, manors, rights and so on can be transferred around

>>25493579
>Tommen and Myrcella were also at the same time titled prince and princess of Dragonstone
Nowhere in the books are they referred to as such, I checked.
>a prince of Dragonstone
There's never been mention of A Prince of Dragonstone, only THE Prince of Dragonstone, who was the heir to the Targaryen monarchs. The other children of the Targaryen kings were just referred to as prince or princess (except for Maekar, who was named Prince of Summerhall, which shows that Prince of [someplace] is linked to actually ruling over said castle, even if a few Princes of Dragonstone did not actually live there and instead stayed at court). Lord of Dragonstone was the title the Targs used before the conquered Westeros, and it being restored upon the end of their dynasty shows that under the Baratheons, holding Dragonstone has been decoupled from its role as a title for the heir to the throne.
>Lord of Riverrun but Walder Frey is Lord of the Riverlands or some shit like that
Joffrey actually named Littlefinger as Lord Paramount of the Trident. I'm not actually sure if that was brilliant or retarded (from the Lannisters' perspective, objectively it was bad for them because Littlefinger doesn't intend on staying loyal to them), because the Riverlords will never respect Littlefinger, which means that he'll constantly be relying on aid from the Throne, but this has the hidden benefit that he could never be a threat to the Throne either.

>>25493598
>Littlefinger as Lord Paramount of the Trident
ah right

>Nowhere in the books are they referred to as such
it's inferred, since they're referred to as prince and princess, and GRRM is following the British style, they have to be "of" something

we can see the system used for the other kingdoms: Lewyn Martell, Doran's uncle, is referred to as "prince of Dorne" despite not being THE Prince Of Dorne, because at the time, Doran's mother was Princess Of Dorne and ruling Dorne
likewise Elia Martell is referred to as "princess of Dorne" but not THE Princess Of Dorne, Doran's mother (unnamed)
Quentyn Martell also calls himself "a prince of Dorne" and Arianne calls herself "a princess of Dorne"

and we do know that the Targs ought to follow this system as well, because World OIAF refers to the house as House Targaryen Of Dragonstone, and Dragonstone is the name of their domain, the 8th "kingdom" of Westeros, and in ADWD Daenerys I "of Dragonstone" is mentioned even though she explicitly had not yet been bestowed the title of heir

>>25493616
>we can see the system used for the other kingdoms: Lewyn Martell, Doran's uncle, is referred to as "prince of Dorne" despite not being THE Prince Of Dorne
That's actually a really good point, but it makes it even more noteworthy that the "Baratheon" children are referred to as just prince or princess without a location. And prince as a title has different connotations in Dorne than it does in the rest of Westeros, where it just refers to the children of kings.
>they have to be "of" something
They don't have to be, Daemon still remains a prince even after Rhaenyra becomes Princess of Dragonstone, and after Robb is crowned king, Arya and Sansa are both referred to as just princesses and not princesses of anything in the appendix. Theon and Bran both refer to themselves as Prince of Winterfell, but that's because they either hold the castle or claim it. And Bran doesn't use the title Prince of Winterfell until after Theon uses it, so it might not be official.
>in ADWD Daenerys I "of Dragonstone" is mentioned
According to a Search of Ice and Fire, there is mention of Daena of Dragonstone in Davos II ADWD, but the guy who talks about her is lowborn, and so he might not be using the proper terms, just like how referring to a Stark as the blood of Winterfell is also not the official term.

>>25493695
>Daena of Dragonstone in Davos II ADWD
yeah the idiot peasant was misremembering Daenerys I's name

>They don't have to be
GRRM is clearly aping the British system so they would all have to be "of [place]", and you can see that not just for princes and princesses, but for dozens of titles [of place] all over; e.g. "Prince Oberyn of Dorne", "Ser Deziel Dalt of Lemonwood", "Lord Gyles of Rosby", and of course "Ser Bronn of the Blackwater"
these [of place] are actual official styles, not just a figure of speech stating they are from that place

>referring to a Stark as the blood of Winterfell is also not the official term
yeah that's a figure of speech, useful to show what isn't a style
Ned Stark is Lord Of Winterfell because the North doesn't use the "Prince Of" title
hence the actual title for the rest of the Starks is simply "of Winterfell"; in Book 1 Bran is formally announced as "Brandon Stark of Winterfell", and Arya also introduces herself "Arya Stark of Winterfell"
this was before Robb crowned himself King

(IRL we have Viscount titles for this purpose but GRRM chose not to use that, probably to simplify things, and give it a more archaic tone)

>Theon
>Prince of Winterfell
he was being a bit of a vainglorious idiot, true, but he would sure enough be a Prince, big P, since Balon Greyjoy had just crowned himself King

>Bran doesn't use the title Prince of Winterfell until after Theon uses it, so it might not be official
Bran becomes Prince (big P) of Winterfell because Robb crowned himself King in the North, and Bran was his heir since he had no sons

>the "Baratheon" children are referred to as just prince or princess without a location
since Robert Baratheon took the "Of Dragonstone" styles for both Stannis and Joffrey, chances are Myrcella and Tommen should follow the Targ styles "of Dragonstone" as well

now, because the Baratheons are now holding two kingdoms, Robert had the option of styling either "of Storm's End", or "of the Stormlands" as well
but he gave that style and its titles and rights to Renly, so most likely Renly's children would take that style

>And prince as a title has different connotations in Dorne than it does in the rest of Westeros, where it just refers to the children of kings
indeed, it is unique because the others were conquered and all became Lords, whereas Dorne wasn't
but now that more kings have re-emerged, their children are now called princes and princesses also
in ADWD there is one singular mention of "Princess Asha", said by one of the more Westerosi-fied ironborn lords
Asha herself never calls herself that, because the ironborn seem to generally disdain these titles
which is odd considering how much Balon loved to be King, and how much Asha wants to be Queen

>>25493798
>was misremembering Daenerys I's name
Right, I didn't read the rest of the quote and thought it was referring to Daena the Defiant. My bad.
>GRRM is clearly aping the British system
He is. but that doesn't mean that these things work the same way, GRRM takes many creative liberties with his inspirations, like for example how the First Night is a thing in Westeros even though it never was in real life, or how the government of the Seven Kingdoms matches neither an absolute or a feudal monarchy properly.
>Bran becomes Prince (big P) of Winterfell because Robb crowned himself King in the North
Bran was the Stark of Winterfell during Robb's absence, but he only calls himself Prince of Winterfell, and even then only after the castle was sacked by Ramsay.
>Robert Baratheon took the "Of Dragonstone" styles for both Stannis and Joffrey
Stannis (and also Renly) aren't called Prince of Dragonstone (or Storm's End), but just lord, which implies a looser connection to the royal family. Or it could honestly just be an oversight from GRRM, because it makes no sense for Stannis to be a lord but for Robb's siblings to be princes and princesses.
>but he gave that style and its titles and rights to Renly, so most likely Renly's children would take that style
This gets to the heart of the problem, namely that we don't know how succession to Dragonstone works during AGOT. Later on, after Stannis learns that Cersei's children are bastards they are of course disqualified in his eyes, but it's never directly mentioned before that.
>it is unique because the others were conquered and all became Lords, whereas Dorne wasn't
Dorne using Prince as the title for their ruler actually predates the Conquest, the Rhoynar were ruled by princes and the style was brought over by Nymeria.
>the ironborn seem to generally disdain these titles
The Ironborn seem to be split greenlander customs, Aeron refers to Lord Merlyn as just the Merlyn, same as the Mountain Clans do. They probably dislike the term prince because they likely had no princes back when they had kingsmoots and any captain could be king.

If we suppose GRRM finds it easier to write historical account style versions of events than POVs (because he can chalk up inconsistencies and mistakes to errors from the source) then what about if he did Winds and Dream like that? It wouldn't be ideal of course, but it would be a compromise between the difficulty of finishing the main story at its current complexity and actually getting the events with some remnant of GRRM's writing style to guide it. I honestly wouldn't mind just getting an account of all the battles left unfinished at the end of Dance.

>>25493965
Would be pretty bad. If GRRM did something like that, I'd never re-read ASOIAF or recommend it to anyone ever again. Still better than no ending at all, I guess.

>>25493965
>>25494135
the story is already told from character POVs, idiots
you can already blame any errors on "unreliable narrator", if you want to cope that far
>Brienne thought she saw Lady Stoneheart but actually she was delirious while dying
>final sentence of ADOS: "...Eddart Stark woke up. 'Gods be good, what a terrible nightmare,' he said."

>>25491555
Didn’t know that dany was the only character in the series or that George was in charge of the play.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bank_of_Oldtown

Cool it with the antisemitism, George.

>>25494331
>Targshitter still trying to push Hightowers as Jews
>Can't read that it was actually a Tarly who founded it

>>25494338
post nose with timestamp

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>>25494394
Alright.

>>25494415
bruh that's kanye

>>25494415
>sweaty nigger

What the fuck
Is this who I've been talking to online

>>25494415
Based summer islander

>>25494419
he's not the only summer islander that posts here

>>25493361
>>25493363
>"M'lord," Janos Slynt reminded him. "You'll address me—"
>"I'll go, my lord. But you are making a mistake, my lord. You are sending the wrong man, my lord. Just the sight of me is going to anger Mance. My lord would have a better chance of reaching terms if he sent—"
GRRM literally makes a sneaky joke out of it

>>25495055
Janos getting lopped was an extremely satisfying death
Probably the only smart thing Jon ever did

>>25492438
>>Dragonstone would go to Joffrey when he turned 16
>That is how the Targaryens did things, but is it actually said anywhere that Robert intended for Dragonstone to go to Joffrey?

Prince Joffrey will need his own demesne when he comes of age, a kinda "practice kingdom" to learn how to rule on his own and to show the nobility that he'll be a competent king when he inherits the Iron Throne and that has always been Dragonstone.

Besides, Cersei will guarantee it happens by endlessly hounding Robert until he agrees.

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Preston's fan-fic is all I have left...

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>>25494419
This isn't anime anon, there are several blacks in the ASOIAFverse

>>25494141
>the story is already told from character POVs, idiots
And? Those POV characters are what people want to read. People don't want to read some old maester's lame interpretations.

>>25495445
I have my perfect universe in CK2
Daenerys, Empress of Ghiscar
Barristan, LC of the Imperial Guard
AegonVI, King of IT
Arianne, Queen-consort
Rickon, LP of the North
Boltons and male freys and Jamie and Cersei executed and attainted
Martyn, LP of West.
Stannis, LP of Stormlands
Jon, lord of Dreadfort.

>>25495436
Robert had no intention of keeping up with the Prince of Dragonstone tradition. You have no idea what you're talking about. He gave it permanently to Stannis.

>>25496045
NAYRT but Stannis is LORD of Dragonstone not PRINCE, idiot

>>25496061
Yes, I know, retard. Which is why I brought up Robert doing away with the tradition and giving it Stannis as as a fief instead of holding it for Jeffrey. I did not expect such illiteracy on /lit/ of all places. Read before you post.

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Thoughts on this spring chicken?

(Fresh off the presses from WorldCon).

>>25496140
>showing up to Worldcon, the place he said he'd only show up with a copy of Winds in hand

Are we back? Or is it another promised unkept?

>>25496140
He looks fine. Would get a photo/10.

>>25496150
Imagine if he actually announces it

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>>25494415

>>25496205
My hype levels are so far in the negative that I expect a Winds (or new Dunk) announcement when I least expect it.

>>25496208
He already announced a new Dunk in support of the show

>>25496219
I really hope he does. I feel like a self-contained Dunk story that's 50 pages long would be easier to get out compared to Winds, especially if he's been motivated by how much he enjoyed the tv show

>>25496219
>>25496318
>letting him off the hook and bask in fan adulation again
Weakmind

>>25496377
Go to the con and harass him about winds, with my blessing

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>>25496205
>>25496208

Do you think that GRRM has:

1) Completely stopped writing in the last years
or
2) Has been writing and has written a lot, but isn't satisfied with it to send to print

>>25496738
1. Copium died 10 years ago.

Q:"Do writers peak when young?"
A: [...]
>"Some of them at a certain age get writer's block or something where they suddenly seize up i mean you have a writer,Theodore Sturgeon, immensely prolific for the early part of his career. "
>He hits like the 60s and he spends the last 20 years of his life working on allegedly one novel and then he dies and the novel finally comes out and you say "This? He took 20 years with this?"
- 11 years gago

Stoneheart

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>>25496459
don't you think this was enough for him last year?
i hope the based tranny returns

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>>25496099
>Robert doing away with the tradition

Except there is nothing to support that contention.

>>25490279
That was more like Hernan Cortes. Brandon the Burner was like China when they decided to stop having a fleet when before that they were sending expeditions as far as Africa.

was bookborn really bullied in school for being a nerd? she's quite hot so i find it extremely hard to believe

>>25496738
Tells himself he’s going to write weekly but can only get a paragraph or two done a few times a year.

>>25496038
Who are Daenerys and Jon married to?

>>25492929
Tywin

>>25492694
Hating bastards is her purpose

>Maegor I Targaryen
>no other king called Maegor
>has the I anyway
why

>>25497460
that's the sign the text is anachronistic and written after the reign of Maegor II
up until Maegor II was enthroned, people just called the first one "Great Maegor"

>>25497470
Only one King was named Aenys and Maekar and they have ave I in their name/title. Makes no sense.

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>>25497488
it was a joke, anon

>>25497528
o-oh....

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>this little rapist is slated to be the highest authority in the land

grim

>>25497413
Jon married Val and Daenerys took some old blooded Volentene nobleman as Emperor-Consort.

Oh, I almost forgot the Greyjoys. Euron got executed and Theon became puppet LP with Victarion as his regent (the Greyjoys continued through the line of Victarion who reconverted to the Drowned God)

Darry, Rosby, the Twins and Harrenhall were granted to Strickland, Cole, Mudd and Strong GC members respectively.

>>25497795
>grim
Yeah, that's just one letter away from the signature, what were you expecting

>>25497933
>grrm grrm, it rhymes with grim
>you have to know your name

>>25497795
I'm of the opinion that anyone capable of controlling a person's mind, even if only the most dim of minds (animals, the mentally retarded, etc), you're a full blown monster.

Read Carrion Comfort by Dan Simmons. Or play Star Control and see how horrific the Dnyarri are

>>25498105
>Carrion Comfort
>le Nazi
Pass. I avoid novels that have ww2 as a subject like the plague.

So what do you think was in the letter that convinced Aegon the Conqueror to not attack Dorne again?

>>25498140
Stop spamming this crap.

>>25498139
It makes sense, though. If you're a psychopathic mind rapist who uses people like chess pieces for fun, why not join the Nazis to have access to a bunch of fresh bodies(Jews)? The main antagonist just wants to play games. He doesn't care if the world goes to hell.

>>25498140
It was Pink Letter, but in reverse

>>25495445
Is it fun?

What are the implications of the Others raising Thistle but not Varamyr?

>>25498255
Varamyr isn't dead. Not exactly. The wights are known to maintain some previous thought/memory, which implies possession of the spirit as well as the body (I am assuming we arent delving into neuro-anatomy and brain function given George's preference for "its magic"). Varamyr's spirit is beyond possession, having joined the wolf, One Eye. His body then is as inanimate as rock or snow, which are similarly not animated by the magic of the Others.

>>25498140
>It is unknown what content was in the letter that Nymor had written, but many have speculated. Some claim it was a simple plea that touched Aegon’s heart. Others insist it was a list of all those lords and noble knights who had lost their lives during the war. Some believe it said that Queen Rhaenys Targaryen had survived her fall at Hellholt, but was being kept captive in extreme torment, and the Dornish promised to end her suffering if Aegon agreed to end the war. Others suspect the letter stated that Nymor was willing to spend all of Dorne's gold to hire the Faceless Men of Braavos to assassinate Aegon's young son and heir, Prince Aenys, if Aegon did not sign the peace. Certain septons even suggest that the missive was ensorceled.

The strange and notable part is that whatever this leverage was, it was not used until Nymor Martell became Prince of Dorne. Dorne might have saved itself years of fire and blood but Meria Martell, the yellow toad, was apparently unwilling to use whatever this was for peace. That suggests, to me, that this leverage was not only valuable but personal. Rhaenys fits. We know that Meria and Rhaenys previously met and had a threatening confrontation in which Meria threatened Rhaenys personally.

It seems most probable then that Rhaenys did not die when Meraxes fell but she was captured, kept alive, and tortured for years. Penance for the invasion of Dorne, as Meria would see it. The old woman would keep Rhaenys as her private entertainment, her tangible proof of power over the Targaryens destroying her land. This kind of exceptionally cruel and personal vengeance reeks of femininity.

When Meria died and her son came to power, I can see him his distaste for his mother's vicious entertainments. It makes sense then, that he informs Aegon of these events and as suggested above, ends them as payment for peace. Rhaenys was, by then, ravaged beyond all recognition, I do not doubt.

That explains why Aegon apparently received nothing yet gave peace. The death of Rhaenys also meant this leverage expired with her and explains why the Dornish didnt do anything similar afterwards.

>>25498149
I asked once like 4 threads ago and this is the first repetition. What spam, assblood? You are such a fucking dumb retard.

>>25498291
lol
you think like a woman, and a soft one at that
if I had received such a piece of blackmail, knowing that the worst they could do would simply be to kill her anyway, I wouldn't rest until I genocided all Dorne from dragonback.
"be nice to me and I'll put your love out of her misery after all the torture I've done"? fuck that. killing her is merely paying me in my own coin, she's done anyway.

>25498322
This is the only response you'll receive from me.

>>25498211
Ye, it's great. The latest Bran chapter actually made me tear up.

>>25498322
Aegon should’ve glassed Dorne and replaced them with Andals from the Reach.

>>25498261
>(I am assuming we arent delving into neuro-anatomy and brain function given George's preference for "its magic").
afaik didn't George specifically say he liked the whole neurological aspect of it? Like people who change personalities entirely after head trauma, more so those who were literally dead for a while.

>>25498371
>neurological aspect of it
>people who change personalities entirely after head trauma
never mind head trauma, people often change personalities after going through any kind of major trauma, such as a bad car crash, or war, or major disease
and people change personalities growing up
and people even train themselves to change their personalities when at work

>>25498371
I was referring to this.

>EW: This may be a silly question, but: When you think of the world you’ve created, where seasons last for years, where is it? It is another planet?
>GRRM: It’s what Tolkien wrote was “the secondary world.” It’s not another planet. It’s Earth. But it’s not our Earth. If you wanted to do a science fiction approach, you could call it an alternate world, but that sounds too science fictional. [...] I have people constantly writing me with science fiction theories about the seasons — “It’s a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain–” It’s fantasy, man, it’s magic.

Worst outcome for winds fellas?
Winds is published but post-humously
Wins is published but there's a massive worldwide paper shortage going on at the same time causing values of first editions to soar and become highly collectable
Winds is published but it's split

>>25498477
Worst outcome is Winds is nothing but George's files all published on his blog, thousands of random pages, included changed plotlines and discarded ideas for fans to plot through and debate over where George wanted the story to go

>>25498507
>>25498477
I highly doubt we would get anything that wasn't highly curated by GRRM's assistants.

>>25498477
>Worst outcome for winds fellas?
George changing plots, and characters because of the show reception.

>>25498477
Winds is released and its Reddit fan service

>>25498477
words are winds

>>25498291
>What spam
You already received an answer that time. No need to bump the thread with a stupid question.
>>25498358
You've been playing too much CK3 AGOT. Genocide would've never been tolerated.
>>25498477
We get the unfinished draft, and then some grifter will despoil ASOIAF with official fanfiction.

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>>25498830
I didnt ask it this time, dolt. I dont even remember it being answered then which is why I came up with this myself.

And Aegon DID torch Dorne after Rhaenys fell.
>The two years that followed Rhaenys's death were later dubbed the years of the Dragon's Wroth. Grief-stricken at the death of their sister, Aegon and Visenya set every castle, keep, and holdfast in Dorne ablaze at least once, with the exception of Sunspear and its shadow city, and placed bounties on the heads of the Dornish lords. The war would last until 13 AC.

And the threat obviously was not her dying but her continuing torture. Aegon and Visenya had two years of freely destroying Dorne and they could neither find nor free Rhaenys. If I'm right, and I am sure that I am, then Aegon wouldnt have even been aware of her survival until he received the letter, at which point he realizes his helplessness and inability to rescue her, hence the grabbing of the iron throne and the flying off to Dragonstone. Its the only explanation that fits all given information.

You wish you could come up with stuff like this when I ask questions but inevitably I must answer them all myself.

>>25498477
>Worst outcome for winds
nothing is published
no notes no nothing
status quo is what you see for the rest of your life

>>25498855
cringe

>>25495563
Moqorro is legit as a Crazy black sorcerer. The show house of the dragon is retarded for making Velaryons black though. Diversity quotas.

EHM guys....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJ3F4ZOkzk

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… I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back …