how many people here are pure webnovel readers, pure webnovel writers, or both?

>>25593177
do you mean write without reading and read without writing, or webnovels vs trad

>>25593212
err, i meant here in this thread to discuss reading webnovels, writing webnovels, or both because they like webnovels in general

>>25593246
oh well i talk about writing way more, but it's not a purist thing
the issue is generally that nobody reads the same stuff unless it's like, TWI or Shadow Slave or other massive stories. and the discussion there has been run through already
there's an anon here who keeps posting about super obscure stories and obviously nobody has read them, so what is there to say?
that's why it's mostly writing talk

>>25593246
People only discuss their failure at authorship here

>>25593264
there's a shocking percent of authors who do way above average here compared to every other non-private community, actually

>>25593268
but they only bitch and moan too if they post at all

>>25593277
that's just 4chan my brother

>>25593277
reader posts are all moaning and bitching too lol
there's never a "omg this was so good! you should go read this!" post
it's always a list of grievances

>>25593252
i see
i dunno, from my experience in various generals i expected to see more people be like "wow new chapter of X is out!"

>>25593285
I never said they didn't to be fairbeitfullydough

>>25593287
reading is very niche in the modern age, it's not the same as TV and movies and video games
moreover, web novels are VERY NICHE even inside of the literature world as a whole. most readers have never heard of them
it's honestly shocking we have a thread at all. there's like 3-5 regulars keeping it alive and again, that's more than /lit/ should have to start with

>>25593294
>web novels are VERY NICHE even inside of the literature world
i think /wng/ is faster than /wg/ and /sffg/

>>25593306
Which means nothing outside of 4Chan

>>25593306
/wng/ has died off recently. /wg/ is faster
also, again, it's just a few active regulars, that doesn't mean webnovels are popular in the grand scheme of things

File: 16946-azarinth-healer.jpg (59 KB, 400x600)

59 KB JPG

>>25593285
Many things I would recommend are stubbed, which makes me reluctant to recommend them at all, to anyone, really. The extra effort necessary even for someone here to go pirate a volume 1 and give it a look, rather than just opening up chapter one in a browser tab, feels like too much.

I'm a big fan of Healer MCs so I'd recommend any of the following, all of which are very different types of stories from each other in almost every possible way:
Beneath the Dragoneye Moons
Azarinth Healer (new chapter out today, and volume 7 publication)
1% Lifesteal (last chapter of volume 5 will post when it's done)
Lifeweaver
The Pinnacle Warrior
The Great Cleric (Japanese WN/LN)
The Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic (Japanese WN/LN)
The Saint's Magic Power is Omnipotent (Japanese WN/LN)
A Tail of the Secret Saint (Japanese WN/LN)
Redo of Healer (Japanese WN/LN)
Everything western is stubbed. Everything Japanese got an anime.

The problem is even in such a niche as healer MC there's a WIDE variety of fictions, and there are countless niches with countless options such that very few people on /wng/, a niche thread on a niche board on a niche website in a niche paradigm (primarily text based as opposed to video based, which most of the internet is now), are reading the same thing at any given time.

It's a miracle there were two people reading Foxfire Esq when volume 2 was being serialized. That fiction has 4672 followers and an average rating of 4.74 and is accordingly high in the RR rankings.

Then of course you get trolls who shitpost and generally try to make conversation about what people are reading as unproductive and unpleasant as possible. Guarantee there will be one about BTDEM for no real reason. So there's little interest in discussing fictions that are objectively weak but still entertaining. Everything is just bogged down in trolling.

File: brave_ajw7OYHxso.png (204 KB, 978x822)

204 KB PNG

>>25593177
I think it's important to read your peers work, just in general—but your fellow anonnys too. Been following pic related (not seen: the dude who did labors of zucchini and his newer work, and the crow and the rabbit). I was following another non-chan author but decided to drop it because it was just utterly exhausting, so I'm going to start on Born under a black sun next.
Lately I just finished double timing through War and Peace: been spending the last three evenings and mornings whenever I can in my naturous backyward, suddenly lots of ant bites from sitting in the same spot where perchance an ant convoy set up shop. Up to book 3 part 1 ch2, holy wowzers. Anyway, I'm reluctant to give For the Union a try, I have a hunch it's going to not live up to that author's impossible expectations and drop it after a while.
And now that I'm finally at this stopping point I'm just so confident in actually writing the next chapter now, in fact reading intently through W&P I couldn't even stop sketching how I knew the chapter would start from beginning to end and even a unexpected twist that brought me to tears as I was reading W&P. I'm going back to skim over certain segments from war and peace book 1 part 2 which had an amazing chapter opener. I'm so psyched. we're all gmi bros.

>>25593294
It's approximately 6 guys and outside of you specifically the other 5 mistake each other for each other and get into arguments frequently (the unfortunately potent lifeblood of many threads). Sometimes one of the larger writers who've posted here returns for one thing or another but fuck off because of various reasons.

Does anyone have tips for writing a WN with AI? What kind of information should I give the AI in prompts? Any specific style of prompts I should use? How much plotting, outlining, and worldbuilding should I do before getting the AI involved?

>>25593338
it's embarrassing to be this bad at baiting
it's honestly so easy to make good bait idk how some tards are so bad at it

>>25593331
Yeah. Even the super popular, super high-rated stuff like Sky Pride tends to derail. Smaller stories don't stand a chance

>>25593331
Why are there more healer MC stories than mage MC stories? It's always either some sword warrior, spellblade, or something "different" like a healer or support character. Where are all the pure mages?

Archmage stories barely count because those characters don't go around being mages on an adventure. Even Vivi in MLA is fighting with a sword now.

am I one of the 6 guys keeping the thread alive or am I an outlier

>>25593348
>Even Vivi in MLA is fighting with a sword now.
???
Ran out of ideas huh

>>25593349
how often do you post?
weirdly this thread is mega active right now. /wng/ has bigger lulls and rushes than any other thread on /lit/ it feels like

>>25593340
Why do you think it's bait? I'm just asking for advice. I'm sure that someone here must have done what I'm asking about and could share their knowledge.

>>25593350
She's taking part in a tournament using a hidden identity as a swordswoman. It's amusing, but I want to read about MC just being a mage in the world just doing mage things. MLA doesn't really scratch that itch because she's so much more powerful than anything else. It's more like reading cultivation.

>>25593352
like once or twice a day.

>>25593359
i wouldn't consider that a regular
it does stop the thread from falling into the catalog on slow days i guess. but there's a housekeeper who does that regularly for some reason

>>25593365
>into the
*out of the

>>25593348
i'm writing a pure mage story right now, and the biggest obstacle im seeing is that you have to be more creative with a mage. healers heal (and buff), warriors swing swords, spellswords buff their swords and then swing it, they're all pretty straightforward.

the mage, however, probably folds instantly up close, and has to end fights from afar, and needs an interesting repertoire of tools so they're not just spamming. its a level of cunning that isn't 'main character' material, main characters need to be sturdy underdogs that can turn the tides of battle, mages are glass cannons that win on the opener

>>25593374
yeah pure mages are difficult to write in a satisfying way
i see anons say "why don't people do X" a lot and then they find out why most fiction doesn't do X after wasting tons of hours discovering it themselves (if said poster is self-aware).
most people absolutely refuse to learn from their predecessors
spellswords are the overwhelming default for a reason
which isn't to say, don't try it yourself. but shit's not common for a reason. that is (almost) always the case

>>25593374
why not just make a mage with an hp stat who can also fight up close like an Avatar character
just look at how fighting games do mages like Nine from Blazblue or Cagliostro from Granblue and go from there

File: 1613702609658.gif (45 KB, 618x432)

45 KB GIF

>>25593398
>what if the mage had instant overheads and a DP
thats a villain not a hero

>>25593398
>just look at how fighting games do mages like Nine from Blazblue or Cagliostro from Granblue and go from there
huh
>use these video games as an example for how to make it work in prose
u serious?

>>25593406
>use close combat mages as an example of how mages work in close combat
Yeah if you have a brain this shouldn't be too terribly difficult to grasp

>>25593425
do you write?

>>25593426
Is your IQ room temperature? Same answer as that.

>>25593429
you're a dumb retard who talks confidently about shit he doesn't understand

>>25593425
If we're going to split hairs, both Nine and Cagliostro are only "close combat" in terms of gameplay representation, narratively they both are terrible in close combat (Nine having been killed by Terumi and Cagliostro being killed in close quarters multiple times and only getting away with it with her spare bodies)

>>25593433
You're a dumb retard who can't conceptualize basic shit.
>NOOOOOOO THE WIZARD CAN'T CAST A SPELL AT CLOSE RANGE AND BLOCK WITH A MAGIC BARRIER AND THEN NOT DIE WHEN HE'S HIT I'M GOING INSAAAAAAAAAAAANE

>>25593348
>Why are there more healer MC stories than mage MC stories?
There are not, and none of those stories are "pure" healer MC stories except possibly Redo of Healer and The Saint's Magic Power is Omnipotent. I'll disregard the Japanese stories for now.
BTDEM: Mage/Healer hybrid, huge focus on fighting.
AH: Brawler/Healer hybrid
1% Lifesteal: Cultivation/SELF-healer hybrid (brawler and weapons)
Lifeweaver: Mage/Healer hybrid, sometimes uses a staff
The Pinnacle Warrior: Hammer Warrior / primarily self-healer hybrid. Really it's just one skill for party heals at the moment.

There are tons of Mage MC stories. Some where the MC literally only does magic. It's not my niche, but I know it's bigger and I DON'T know why you can't instantly name 10. Yes, Archmage stories count. There are also magic academy stories. HARRY POTTER counts. Magical Girl counts.
I did a quick search and found the following that seem to fit:
Bookbound Bunny
Matabar
Guild Mage: Apprentice
Noble Arcana
Underkeeper
Return of the Unbound Mage
Millennial Mage
Bones in the Dark
Mage Tank

If you can't find any you're just not looking, or you have other filters that are preventing you from giving anything a try, possibly due to autistic fixation on something you like that you're judging everything else against, negatively, for being different in any way.

>>25593436
This is just a spellblade.

>>25593436
holy sperg out
knew it was you
gimme a pokemon catchphrase now

>>25593435
Thankfully though in the fighting game they are in fact fighting within like 12 feet of their opponent at all times

File: GGST_Asuka_R_Portrait.png (1.61 MB, 1383x1354)

1.61 MB PNG

>>25593398
>>25593425
Those close combat mages are spiritually spellswords, bro. They fight like regular fighters with a magic coat of paint, basically spellswords. They punch, they kick, they get in your face and are just as mobile and tanky as pure fighters. A real mage would be a fucked up zoner who dies in one hit (pic related)

>>25593439
Don't use a magic weapon and they aren't a spellblade.
>>25593440
Not your boogeyman dumbass
Concession accepted

File: 1773857406932162.png (135 KB, 423x318)

135 KB PNG

>>25593442
yooooo he got that shit ON

>>25593442
>A real mage would be a fucked up zoner who dies in one hit (pic related)
Based on what?
Besides even super-zoners could reasonably have a fight where they don't get one-shot with actual back and forth.

>>25593438
i'm not as slopfluent as you but the only one i read
>Millennial Mage
one of her major gimmicks is being stupidly durable, near invincible thanks to some magibabble i can barely remember since i read it years ago. so I don't think this fits as a traditional pure mage? makes me doubt the rest

>>25593444
>Concession accepted
looool you actually did it. now give me another one

File: magefighter.png (3.68 MB, 2961x3269)

3.68 MB PNG

>>25593446
he better have that shit on, look at how hard he has to work compared to unga bunga warriors

>>25593450
spirit of the mage versus letter of the mage. if a 'mage' cloaks himself in mana like dragon ball aura and fights hand to hand that's not really a mage now, is it? that's a fighter, and a mage only in name

>>25593459
>spirit of the mage versus letter of the mage.
This is what I'm questioning; what's the spirit of the mage? A fragile glass canon? You could do that with any archetype. An archer or even a flying sword cultivator.

>>25593466
not him; but yes, the spirit of a mage is obviously some guy who casts devastating spells from a range.
if you use magic up close and fucking brawl and punch and kick and take hits, that's a spellsword spiritually. duh?

so yeah: a purist mage is the same as a purist archer as far as narrative writing goes

>>25593466
Physically fragile/weak as a drawback, intelligent (they read books), and having a toolkit of spells. That's why spellswords and hybrids are popular, to get rid of all the drawbacks of a mage.

Archer has a similar niche in range, but they're usually physically fit, agile, and stealthier.

That said, it is just semantics, no one is saying one is better than the other. The question was just why very few "pure" mages exist, emphasis on the "pure" above all else.

>>25593451
I've read literally none of them. I just did a quick search.
But see, now is added a new condition: that mages must be frail, and not durable. It's impossible to find anything you might be interested in if you see one thing in one suggestion you don't like, and you dismiss everything all at once.

>>25593470
>the spirit of a mage is obviously some guy who casts devastating spells from a range.
I disagree, I don't think that's so obvious. Magic has limitless possibility by definition. What are you even basing this off of? Some particular video game? I have to imagine it's something like world of warcraft.

>>25593472
>The question was just why very few "pure" mages exist, emphasis on the "pure" above all else.
I think the answer to that is simple: you failed to define your terms, you've purity spiraled, and now there's only one "pure" mage story which you decline to name for some reason, and everything else falls short because you're trying to wish a general class into existence based on a particular example.

>>25593438
>Proper mage stories
>Mage Tank
>Mage
>Tank
>Mage Tank
>MAGE TANK

>>25593492
did you seriously think the question was "stories with MCs that use magic in their kit"?
that's fucking all of them
what even was your definition, then?

>>25593492
>I've read literally none of them. I just did a quick search.
Why would you answer something you have no knowledge about?
People are weird, man

>>25593503
I still don't have a suitable definition of what a mage MC actually is (the original whiner doesn't have one, for reasons I already stated).

>>25593493
Define your terms better.

>>25593499
That the MC was PRIMARILY a mage, which was also the definition for healer MC stories. If I missed an actual definition of what a mage MC is supposed to be, feel free to point it out. "It's obvious" is not a definition, that's autistic totalizing.

>>25593509
retard

>>25593492
all right bro this is genuinely a weird response, why you getting defensive over mages for stories you haven't even read lmfaooo. i didnt realize i had to define the terms considering everyone else understood immediately. its just a genre savvy thing, you gotta play more video games or dnd to get it

File: 1791935082368176.png (675 KB, 1216x3800)

675 KB PNG

>refusal to pet the dog
And that's why these threads have gone to shit.

>>25593517
how the FUCK does howie relate to anything happening right now
you are genuinely just braindead stupid, you dumb fucking retard. you're why this thread is shit

>>25593517
it was defined right here >>25593472 you just didnt like the definition for some reason.
what are you still confused about. the mage has 4 HP and 4 STR and 20 INT. he has limitations, be it limited casts or mana. limitations make the pure mage

>>25593509
In lieu of insulting you, I'll state that my understanding of the original poster's "mage mc" is in line with video game/tabletop mages
>Primarily fights at range and spurn weapons because they die to a stiff breeze
>Poor physical ability or if not then they don't primarily rely on it
>Utility depends on system, but generally rely more on tactics and setup than hitting things harder
From this we can posit that pure mage mcs aren't popular mainly because of their heavy reliance on other people, unless they're at archmage level where all the usual weaknesses of rpg mages are nullified

tldr what >>25593374 already said

File: 1761695670179725.png (134 KB, 1240x416)

134 KB PNG

I've been pondering an isekai LitRPG but instead of it based on picrel plus a little bit of Dunbine. Protag drops in, and like four other Earth regions drop in, with the biggest one being a very angry Yugoslavia. Maybe even make him a Yugo. I feel like if I do this right I'll make fantasy Ace Combat.

>>25593492
>wow
Mages in mmos like wow are very durable and mobile compared to your typical trad fantasy mage and can also rapidly fire off instant cast spells.
Like the other guy said, to make a viable mage that doesn't bore people you have to dip into spellblade

>>25593598
>mages in wow are durable
not originally
a rogue's dagger in the back used to oneshot poor little clothies. steep drawbacks like cloth armor were gradually phased out as the game became babyfied

>>25593438
>BTDEM: Mage/Healer hybrid, huge focus on fighting.
Doesn't this one have that retarded limitation on the MC that becomes irrelevant when the plot requires it?

The reason many people don't write "pure mage" stories is the same reason many people don't write "pure crafter" stories. You can do it once, maybe even twice, and if you're really stretching it three times, while winnies require you to make it exciting hundreds of times.

how easily people forget our very own Glass Cannon

Read Reverend Insanity
Write Reverend Insanity

my jfantasy story will have an MC that can't do magic

drama in the litrpg subreddit: a discord got removed because its main mod was vocally anti-trans and preaching white replacement

>>25593990
and we should care or be interested why exactly?

File: The Dark Fantasy Doctor W(...).png (2.08 MB, 933x1371)

2.08 MB PNG

Did somebody say healer?

>>25593997
yeah sorry for interrupting the sparkling discussion that was already ongoing anon

>>25593990
>plebbit
you have to go back

I wish someone wrote a better variant of Virtuous Sons, the idea is good/fun but it's been like 5 years and the story is mostly just stalling. The Olympia arc was disappointing as hell. Anyone have any recommendation for other similar but hopefully better stories?

>>25593620
Man, back in.. 1.4, I think, there was this warlock on my server who had like 5.5k hp and could do a fair tank duty in dungeons. Fucking weird.
>>25594153
I didn't like the arc that much but it was a fine look into things. Cultivation but not basically needs someone to do the research and it's usually shit writing, like Arthurian Cultivation, or a crappy find-and-replace of words, also like Arthurian Cultivation. So it's not going to happen, it needs someone who doesn't just want money, but cares about their story. Also damn was the audiobook good.

>>25594184
>I didn't like the arc that much but it was a fine look into things.
Yeah, the setting is really full of potential. I almost feel that the cultivation part of it is kind of getting in the way of the story the writer would like to tell. Otherwise I do enjoy many parts of his writing but the story structure / pacing could use some major improvements.

And at this point I'm almost wondering if PoV switching in writing is serving as a crutch to more easily flesh out a world rather than move around, structure and discover things through the "main" characters themselves. Easy pickings with little cost.

I also feel that Olympia felt strangely empty, the characters where somewhat strangely isolated to their cliques, even when supposedly hundreds of heroes got there. A lack of incidental characterization? Same when they traveled to Thrace, a lot of white room-ish writing.

Anyone tried reading Kairos?

>>25594264
>Kairos
>Maxime J. Durand (Void Herald)
it's shit

>>25593990
how many users did it have

What are gu?

I've been reading a lot of gook kino lately. Here are some of my favorites
>The Regressed Son of a Bitch is an Assassin
>Return of the Max Level Homo
>Solo Max Level Asshole
>The Max Level Retard has Returned!
>Terminally ill Motherfucker
>Return of the SSS-class Wanker
>The Youngest Fuckhead of the Mages

File: Screenshot_62347.png (14 KB, 797x163)

14 KB PNG

It's out
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/77729/progressive-made-lost-in-the-darkness

>>25593177
I regularly search for underrated gems but most webnovel writers are shit at plotting or pacing or both, combined with how they format the text makes reading unbearable. The number of webnovels I liked I can count on one hand and they're all abandoned

>>25595076
>The number of webnovels I liked I can count on one hand and they're all abandoned
Name them

Since the current RS top 10 is just that bad, you'd take that golden opportunity and release your story right now won't you anon?

>>25595571
I've still got 32 chapters to make MINIMUM before I launch.

>>25595571
i've seen way worse RS periods
RS is always shit overall but there's a Wales story at #3 and climbing right now, so there's at least 1 story with some measure of merit. which can't be said for every month

File: HQlJeJ2aoAAkhWx.jpg (36 KB, 640x360)

36 KB JPG

>>25595571
i need a cool cover art first but yes

>>25595571
Ever since the site update I'm sure they screwed up the algorithm that scores the RS and Best Ongoing series. Some of the entries make zero logical sense being there.

File: file.png (2.16 MB, 1466x2200)

2.16 MB PNG

>>25593285
>there's never a "omg this was so good! you should go read this!" post
I'll make one for A Practical Guide to Evil. I don't ordinarily read webnovels but the premise for this was good, and the book itself better than I could've imagined. I'm 93% of the way through and still loving it. Probably my best book of the year, assuming I don't find anything better.

After reading so many books where the "good guys" triumph over the "bad guys" and their "wicked ways", it's been refreshing to read a book where the protagonist is the one with an evil reputation and crazy henchmen. She starts off trying to bring reform to the kingdom of her birth, but after being lifted up by the greatest villain of her age, is stuck on the "wrong" side of history. But she embraces it, and wars with the Good kingdoms who try to stop her, alongside her band of charismatic delinquents and terrifying monsters.

The evil things that happen in this book are genuinely hilarious. Tyrants building flying siege towers by sacrificing hundreds of innocents in rituals, Dread Emperors starting plots against themselves just to throw them under the bus, crucifying your followers to make an example, and so much more. Hangings, betrayals, evil plans, monologues. The Tyrant was my favorite side character by far.

And aptly, the "evil ways" of the main character are forever practical. All in the service of trying to make the world a better place.

4.75/5, highly recommend

>>25595641
don't vague post vagueboy
which ones make no sense?
their team of elite lawyers won't subpoena 4chan for your ip for slander, i promise

>>25595648
why does this post read like ai made it
apgte is good though

>>25595652
I haven't looked at the current list. But previously top series vanished, series with only 12 chapters went into the top 3 ongoing, average rated series still made the list, and so on.

>>25595653
I typed it all out with my fingers. I'm actually kind of insulted, what should I change to make it not sound like that?

>>25595654
more vagueposting. have not experienced this myself
>series with only 12 chapters went into the top 3 ongoing
always been a thing. the soccerfag story that split the series and begged patreons to rate 5 stars on the new one had this happen a while ago, surely before the site update. fringe cases like this pop up here and there

>>25595656
i wasn't fully convinced it was ai but idk it really does have that structure. do you read a lot of llm output? we adopt the structure and style of what we read subconsciously

>>25595661
I'm the most anti-AI person I know, and avoid anything to do with it to the greatest extent possible, so no. I don't read LLM output if I can help it, ever.

>>25595664
i guess i owe an explanation for accusing you then
it's probably because 1. im brainrotted with ai hate and discourse, and more legitimately 2. it's very rare an internet comment is structured like an essay
particularly
>The evil things that happen in this book are genuinely hilarious. Tyrants building flying siege towers by sacrificing hundreds of innocents in rituals, Dread Emperors starting plots against themselves just to throw them under the bus, crucifying your followers to make an example, and so much more. Hangings, betrayals, evil plans, monologues. The Tyrant was my favorite side character by far.
>thesis statement
>three examples
>more examples, but now concise
>a closing statement
it's just how ai writes. but ai was trained on humans so that makes sense.
sadly coherency means ai these days so it's more my fault than yours

File: brave_XVb3GQZ8X2.png (116 KB, 403x398)

116 KB PNG

>>25595571
I've been releasing aind actively writing since January. I justf finished up the chapter I've yearned to write all my life and I've finally made it real and realized. I'm gonna schedule it in four days and maybe if I'm lucky I'll feel like another scene or three. As I was reaing W&P I literally couldn't stop thinking about sketching out the next few chapters instead of concentrating on what I was reading, and I had the book glued to. my. face. trying to soak it in. I'm just feeling so great lately.

>>25595666
nah, all AI has gotta have the
"Its not X, but Y". and if they're making three examples, you bet your ass its gonna be presented as three bullet points

>>25595679
retard

>>25595666
Thanks for your reasoning. I try to effortpost when I review a book, but maybe I took it too far this time.
With that sentence, I was trying to sell the things I liked about the Guide in a way that I thought flowed well, but I see why it set off your alarm bells. And I guess AI does write like that.
A bit ironic for it to be a pattern of three, too.

>>25595682
what you say fuck me for, im just saying my ai-dar did not go off at all on that post

>>25595679
>>25595686
Catherine Foundling isn't good, she's evil. And here's why:
>crucifying enemies
>hanging followers
>laughing all the while

>>25595684
since i think you're human now, kairos really is one of my favorite characters in fiction. hierarch was also great. honestly so many characters were
apgte has the typical web serial issue where it fucking drags sometimes, often for entire books at a time, but when it hits, it's better than almost any fiction i've read
i tend to rate stuff based on its peaks more than its average

>>25595686
your description of ai tells was based on the stone age. all you have to do to fix that is say not to use "it's not x, but y" and to write in prose
people writing with ai are fucking dumb but they can do that much

>>25595690
>i tend to rate stuff based on its peaks more than its average
I'm the same way, and Kairos had so many of those.
>raising the flying siege towers with the blood of innocents
>"Just think how mad she'll be when we betray her too!" to the wandering bard
>throwing the rogue sorcerer off a balcony and saying "that's the last we ever see of you!"
>betraying everyone multiple times each
He really is the best, but I wish we got to see more of Traitorous than just the chapter intros.
Hierarch's early chapters were good, and his final moment too. He went off the rails a bit though.
My favorite chapter of the series is the prologue to book 4.

>apgte has the typical web serial issue where it fucking drags sometimes, often for entire books at a time, but when it hits, it's better than almost any fiction i've read
What parts did you think dragged? It's been pretty good, except for right now. That's why I'm shitposting instead of finishing it, lol.
Maybe the first expedition to Keter, or the Everdark?

>>25595692
even if you try to iron the structure out into prose, ai is just desperate for that witty zinger somewhere

i trust my stone age tools. rock and fire still good

>>25595701
>What parts did you think dragged?
A lot of book 1, a portion of book 2, a lot of everdark (book 4), and a lot of the persistent political ramblings in book 5 and 6, off the top of my head. the pointless repetitive stream of thought narrative was pervasive throughout the series, but forgivable because when the stream of thought was about stuff that engaged me, it worked great
please dont mistake me, i was the only apgte shill in this thread until recently, it's in my top 3. every else said it sucked lmao. but it has real flaws and that's what discussion tends to gravitate toward

>>25595704
>ai is just desperate for that witty zinger somewhere
i mean that was my point. anon's point was essay-like

>>25595707
>A lot of book 1
Have you read the published version?
I started with that instead and it was a lot better, the wargames especially. It ended up as months instead of a literal week.
>the pointless repetitive stream of thought narrative was pervasive throughout the series, but forgivable because when the stream of thought was about stuff that engaged me, it worked great
Yeah, I liked those too. The meanings behind the conversations aren't obvious enough without being explained, or I'm just too stupid to get them.
>please dont mistake me, i was the only apgte shill in this thread until recently, it's in my top 3.
I wasn't, it's worth shilling. Best webnovel I've read, though the only other I've read is Worm.
Better than all the published books I've read this year too.
>>25595704
witty zingers are fun howeverbeit

>>25595735
>Have you read the published version?
no lol, I read these series years ago
>I wasn't, it's worth shilling. Best webnovel I've read, though the only other I've read is Worm.
>Better than all the published books I've read this year too.
sadly the pickings are slim, there are some truly standout web novels better than almost all tradfic, but it devolves into megaslop way faster than tradfic does

>>25594264
Might have to agree to disagree on the Olympia arc, but the 'What? You're.. NOT a tyrant?' reaction was hilarious. Frankly, I suspect they're locked into some sort of Underworld loophellthing - not the orpheus stuff, but the world in general. Possibly from as far back as their local Adam.

Some of the power up stuff is a bit odd, but that's the consequences of a cultivation story without years of time to power level.

>>25595743
>here are some truly standout web novels better than almost all tradfic
Since I'm almost done with it, what others would you put in this category?

>>25595752
tough to say
worm and apgte are the biggest and most well regarded in the tradfic communities, i think bar none (besides maybe MOL, but i didn't like that nearly as much). i would have to reread worm to see if it holds up, since it's been 10 years since i read it
everything i want to recommend has clarifiers
>katalepsis
peak characters, ingenuity, worldbuilding, etc. really a genuine piece of art by any standard. but it's riddled with polyamorism lgbt stuff that's really unappealing at times, and i'm open-minded as far as the average person goes. i found the lesbian stuff cute at first but it escalates. i think if brace yourself it's peak fiction
>wandering inn
maybe the most discussed fic in this thread, and it really does have great peaks, but the bugfucking accusations (iykyk) are undeniable
>mother of learning
worth trying. a titan in this space. i finished it, it's certainly worth reading, but it's not in my top 5. maybe not even top 10. it's rather dry character wise, but has lots of fun ideas and plots. i only bring it up because so many people like it

>>25595763
Thanks, saved these for later. I've heard of the latter two, but not katalepsis.
I'm sad to hear it's mostly downhill from here.

>>25595777
>I'm sad to hear it's mostly downhill from here.
that's unfortunately the case for exploring any new niche, or even broad mediums of fiction
good shit DOES filter to the top. so newbies start with the best and then keep finding substitutes the more they get into it

Duke Long did nothing wrong.

>>25595670
Congrats anon. I feel legitimately guilty when the words are really flowing out of me and I can’t read much without getting distracted by my own work. Honestly just accepting that as long as I have a passion project going, I can’t read much.

>>25595648
>Bad guy protagonist
>After reading so many books where ...
>I don't ordinarily read webnovels
You should read more webnovels. Everything you said is so common it's a cliche, including your review.

File: asdsad[1].png (353 KB, 765x322)

353 KB PNG

>>25593148
So I asked about a Journeyman or sort of weak class that promotes into a stronger one later on, and how it might be designed.

Do you think something like League where the class gets stacks for each kill and then uses them later on for abilities would be good? My idea is they can start getting stacks from their first level, but only later on is it used for abilities.

>>25595975
Classes are lame, just write cultivation

>>25595648
>Femc
No thanks. If I wanted to read female MC I'd read tradpub.

>>25596268
Based

File: trainee_2.gif (12 KB, 240x160)

12 KB GIF

>>25595975
the scaling idea is fine it just doesn't scream class fantasy to me

id design it one of two ways:
>trainee class that can subclass as any class its trained under (jack of all trades)
>intentionally weak and gimped class, but has the unique ability to promote to any class possible, so the MC's goal is to find a busted secret class to promote to
>the above, but the MC figures out the loophole that he can promote the class to itself and infinitely grind

i will write fmc and you won't read it

>>25595975
The way Bog Standard Illusionist handles it is everyone starts out with a Child class, and when you turn fourteen or sixteen or whatever the number is, you get offered a list of options based on the things you've done beforehand. Leaving aside the specifics of how those options are chosen, you can also refuse to pick the offers and remain a Child for another year if you don't like any of them. If I remember right you basically stay more or less vanilla and the next year you can choose again.

The Battle Healer fills the trifecta of tank, DPS and healer in one, so you can create events that are cool in all three directions. At the same time, you can build a sleeperbuild for your trigger, 'My Trap Card Play', because you're not weak or squishy, you can push back and Terminator-Heal. and slap the red prince that screams that you curt death. This is usually good for solo adventures too, it's harder to write a team that's OP than a single character.

Three scenes space out that boil down to:
Wow, what a good healer!
Wow, what a crazy tank!
Wow, what a crazy DPS!

Just like with the tank/DPS/healer roles, people like to think in terms of rock-paper-scissors, so a mage must be le bad at melee or endurance, otherwise the 'rules' collapse.
The direction of pure power quickly slips into glass cannon nuking, 7D chess, or a split trifecta with tanking golems/summons and mana healing, mage blades. One issue is growth fireball to greater fireball gets lame after 4 evolutions so the next one is fireball to fireblade.

TL:DR it harder/ more work to write.

>>25596372
Sounds like Novice/Super Novice in Ragnarok Online
>>25596564
So a Paladin?

>>25596606
ups my bad i wanted to comment on >>25593348 with this >>25596564 post

>>25596564
I'm so fucking tired of these "I'm a swordmaster-archmage-high priest-assassin-necromancer-summoner" stories. There's nothing interesting about being an almighty god who can do anything alone

>>25596717
Mc must have a cheat ability, something that makes him unique or gives him unique power that is not available to anyone else

>>25596717
The jack of all trades is handled wrong

In MMOs, or tabletop, there is a misunderstanding that being specialized in one thing means you need party members to cover your weaknesses. And since a jack of all trades can cover everything, meaning they can solo stuff (in certain scenarios this might be true). Its a loner, gary stu interpretation

But really, what it SHOULD mean is that a jack of all trades can fit in any party. He should be a sociable swiss army knife and constantly hopping parties and well liked by everyone. He's not the best at what he does but he's there when you need it

>>25596743
What I often think is underutilised is time skips or fast travel. You don't need to get "+1 to speaking Ancient Blosrdian dialect." You can buy a dictionary or travel back to town and have your scatch translated. but on the other hand this slows the story. and the question is if the protag can carry 200kg or he if he need to go back to town to get a shovel or gets the +1 shovelhands skill or just skips it all and the story just says "he digged out a tunnel" kinda depends what the authors is going for.

>>25596724
That's not actually what the point is, though.

>>25593348
It's because pure mages can't take a punch.

So you have to become a muscle-mage. And then the premise is already lost.

>>25593335
yeah its dysfunctional here but fuck me its 4chins what do you want

>>25593338
dress like a cat girl when you prompt? kek

>>25593426
>do you write?
I do. I'm trying to get the essential oils of isekai and one or two other tropes and package them into something a western trad expectation could appreciate. The things often expected in WNs are things that seem left out or done incorrectly to trad western experience. I'm trying to draw those two together as I suppose my own experiment

>>25597019
Femc or any supporting foid characters?

>>25596952
my solution to writing a pure mage that can't take a punch?

be heavily into ryona

>>25596372
Hmm, my idea for promotion is the Journeyman/trainee class advances into powerful classes, and it starts off with no abilities besides gaining stacks upon killing or assisting.

I think I like the "any class promotion" idea. I'll merge them, the stacks upon killing or assisting can assist any class ability later on. Maybe do the Super Journeyman route too and then advance into something absurd for the final job promotion.

>>25595571
I did. Didn't even get 20 followers.

Still going to write it to completion because I'm petty and vain.

What would Spectral Soul do in this situation?

>>25597117
>Didn't even get 20 followers.
>Still going to write it to completion
i genuinely can't fathom this mindset. i guess i'm vain in the opposite way of you. what's the point without readers?

>>25597148
so if there was only one reader who truly, genuinely loved and was obsessed with your work

you'd abandon them?
read omniscient reader viewpoint

>>25597148
The thought of leaving something unfinished just gives me the runs.

>>25597148
On the utterly contrary you see people spam their stats in the general channel of a rr botnet begging for validation, and they have like 200 followers and fans, and still consider that a failure—usually they're like a week WEEKS or even DAYS old and they still in dire straits. Meanwhile my 9 year old foc on 6 diff web novel platforms is below 20 followers collectively, except for rr where the highest is like 50 followers and spare change for fans. Fucked up world we live in

>>25597207
>9 year old
Meant 9 months

File: 1773556932305593.png (806 KB, 1000x783)

806 KB PNG

Get ready for a surge of redditors. The r/LitRPG owner just got couped and that's going to result in migrations one way or another.

>>25597236
> I've been here the longest so that gives me the right to be a cunt
The only one from plebbit I see is you. No one cares about some childish discord drama.

>>25597246
I was trying to keep it politically neutral but he was ousted for being a centrist who defended a right wing mod who mentioned trans mass shooters. The new mods did a mutiny over political motivations.

That is going to cause redditors to migrate in multiple directions. More towards the subreddit (resulting in a greater surge of leftist LitRPGs, so I hope you like more gender bender and yuri shit) and more away from the subreddit (meaning /wng/ getting filled with obnoxious redditors). Apologies for giving you advance warning. Don't complain when they show up.

>>25597236
>get into a position of power and get rid of the people who disagree with you
>make everything gay
>tell everyone this is how it has always been
classic troon move

>>25597255
So it's exactly I said, meaningless, childish overblown drama you'd have to be a no-life loser to care about. There's more important things to throw your toys out of your pram about.

>>25597236
You say that as though most litrpgs don't read like they were written by a redditor already.

>>25597262
So which one of the newfag powermods are you that's getting all defensive over a warning? If it's so meaningless you wouldn't be raising your hackles and freaking out.

>>25597275
You're the one freaking out about some plebbit bullshit that doesn't belong here.

>>25595648
It's pozzed as fuck, I also can't stand 'le pragmatic badguy who is actually better than the ten times worse good guys' shit, Overlord is also fucking terrible and I'll never understand the popularity.

>>25597278
You're hurling insults and demanding people go away and appealing to triviality. You're pretty clearly invested here and every post you make trying to defend that instead of just hiding and reporting for allegedly being off-topic emphasizes it.

I think a hit dog's hollering.

Am I better than poser book writers, if I make actual chapters of bad web fiction? Imagine they talk about writing and wanting to make a story, but in fact do not actually do the act of writing?
My own answer in my head is YES.
Because I write and post chapters and have made lots and lots of it, even though it's not writerly or literary.

>>25597280
You write like one of the banned mods.

>>25597284
Oh you're really rattled if all you can do is holler out "N-no you!"

>>25597236
Well the ousted mod & Friend were apparently noticer in the "uncle addi did nothing wrong camp" and said so on the discord so yeah. Broke the rule of never says anything that you don't want have read aloud in front of a jury. Just general discord Power tripping mods. Imagine losing your janny job because you can't keep Rent-free trannies in you head quiet


And mods can be removed after several months of inactivity to prevent frozen/dead sub because someone went afk. You get a few warning and contact requests then you can be demoted.

Doesn't seem that crazy. Not that I care

>>25597282
If someone's all talk and promises without any of the work, then yeah you're at least doing something. There's niggas offering shit for their books that they're gonna be putting out in what they promise is five years from now. If you're putting out chapters of your WN today, you're 5 years ahead of them at the minimum.

>>25597148
>what's the point without readers?
i genuinely can't fathom this mindset. There are tons of readers out there who ONLY pick up completed stories because they don't want to get left hanging forever. The game is not over if you don't have a 1000 followers in week one, unless you're one of those delusional retards who write winnies just to become a millionaire

>>25597279
Anime is good that's why it's popular

>>25597344
a 20 follower story isn't going to start putting on a bunch of followers after it finishes. just not how that works. if it finishes as an obscure story nobody is reading, it will continue being a story nobody reads. barring 1 in a million exceptions
>The game is not over if you don't have a 1000 followers in week one
why the ridiculous strawman? very disingenuous. i'm not saying you need to be the next Gifted to keep writing a story, but 20 followers is not enough for me to commit years, or even months, of my life to. i write because i want to be read and I don't understand people who are fine with toiling in total obscurity

>>25597349
well, it got an anime because the novel was popular

File: backloaded.png (21 KB, 1057x718)

21 KB PNG

>>25597375
what if you just nail the ending because your plot is like pic related and all of your 20 followers go holy shit and spread the good word for you

>>25597412
i think most readers are willing to suffer through a bad start to get to the good stuff, but not a bad 80%-of-the-entire-series

>>25597418
i wouldnt call it bad, just slow and heavily dependent on the mystery/plot twist

some stories are just not structured for immediate wow factor, unfortunately. that's probably one reason why shit like isekai is so popular, its frontloaded. a tried and true boilerplate template that lets you skip a lot of intro fluff and start the main character at level 10 instead of 1

>>25597424
good luck with that. even trad readers brains are fried, and this is the sloppa thread so its way worse

>>25597427
i have boundless faith in my fellow man, i know there are countless people with sloppa fatigue, just craving nutrients for their withered brains

>>25597429
>i know there are countless people with sloppa fatigue, just craving nutrients for their withered brains
not on royal road there isn't

>>25597473
It's irrelevant what people on RR want, there are no good writers on RR, they are so bad they can't even write good slop.

>>25597483
t-then where do I go to find kino webnovels!?

>>25597491
...

>>25597483
>It's irrelevant what people on RR want
it's pretty relevant what readers want if the topic is getting readers

File: photoshop_lxMvqHkTwF.png (296 KB, 511x666)

296 KB PNG

you know, if I ask the really old artist friend if hes willing to draw a very prettyboy prince and the mc, I think it might actually be a killer cover. I have yet to fix the text style since i was copying it directly from another psd but I thought it looked fire at fire

File: 0092026232251.jpg (112 KB, 800x721)

112 KB JPG

Moids want romance and it's time they admitted it.

>>25597519
waifus have been popular forever so im not sure why you're presenting this as news

File: 1778532632931902.png (603 KB, 640x1137)

603 KB PNG

>>25597519
Men have never denied it. Men are the romantic sex. The term "romance" itself was co-opted by women for their own pulp novels.

Now here's the real challenge: Do you understand that robots are a man's romance?

>>25597522
>>25597529
I mean in the context of written original english stories specifically

File: 1791695452402618.jpg (138 KB, 828x798)

138 KB JPG

>>25597529
>Men are the romantic sex.
Simping and pining isn't romance.

>>25597519
i like writing a femc and yearning for my own creation while simultaneously whoring her out

>>25597546
are you implying english fiction targeted toward men doesn't include romance? you're delusional
i do suppose it's different from how fiction targeted toward women is overwhelmingly dominated by romance though, with almost no plot or substance otherwise

>>25597561
Based pimp writer

File: ManhuaFight.png (1.3 MB, 864x1200)

1.3 MB PNG

Are western web novels actually any better than Chinese ones in enjoyment value? Some PF reddit people said so, but somehow western web novels I find harder to tolerate, while Chinese ones are always fun to read. I don't know why I cringe at some of the stuff I've tried on royal road.

I think western web novels try to be clever and subvert things from Chinese PF, but I don't like it. Western PF isn't that much better than eastern honestly.

For context, this is mostly from reading early chapters of these. I always lose interest for whatever reason in either West or East media.

>>25597561
Lmao, I'm happy to know I'm not the only degenerate that does that.

>>25597584
it's obviously just a preference thing. your entire post is vague so it's hard to respond beyond that. personally i prefer western stories simply because the sentence level writing post-translation is unbearable in cultivationslop, having grown up reading tradfic
>I think western web novels try to be clever and subvert things from Chinese PF
uh, i really doubt most western authors are consuming xianxia en masse. there are obviously some, but it's a minority if i had to guess. perhaps you feel this way because you try to read chinese-styled western fic instead of western-western fic

File: sickos.jpg (17 KB, 144x244)

17 KB JPG

>>25597585
its addicting, she's basically my abuse goblin who will never ever catch a break

>>25597585
>>25597610
fmc writers aren't beating the cuck allegations

>>25597584
maybe you should try forming your own thoughts and opinions

>>25597615
This post is me checking if my perspective has other people similar to my view. I already had an idea that Chinese web novels are better.

>>25597604
The writing style is what I like in translated xianxia. I just like the way it reads, a lot.

>>25597631
to me this is like insisting that you enjoy the taste of dogshit, but to each their own I guess
are you a native english speaker? did you read published fiction before moving to web novels or did you start with web novels? it's honestly a bit baffling so i want to know more

>>25597549
The term is "Yearning" and Napoleon was doing that shit while conquering France. The concept of тocкa was first coined by Nabokov, a man, describing sensations only men could experience. Women don't yearn and rarely do they love.

In simple terms: Men voluntarily convert religions for women they love. Women tend to get shanghai'd into conevrsions.

>>25597610
characters are created to suffer.

>no game mechanics
>no system
>no regression
>no romance
>no ebin comedic relief companion
Let’s face it. You can’t succeed without these elements.

>>25597928
b-but do you need all of them

>>25597638
NTA, but I also prefer the way Eastern WNs are written.
I’ve read mainstream commercial tradpubs, “some” of the classics, and pulp fiction, and I gotta say, Royal Road novels aren’t written like any of those. They don’t even read like straight-to-Kindle books.
RR books have a very distinct flavor that’s hard to quantify, but I know it when I see it, and it’s repulsive.

>>25597638
He probably just has autism. Chinaslop translators mainly prioritize 1:1 literal translations over anything else.

>>25597937
>Chinaslop translators mainly prioritize 1:1 literal translations over anything else.
sovlful translations

>>25597928
Mother of Learning, one of the most popular web novels on the planet

>>25597935
yes most RR books are dogshit because most RR books are made by first timer writers. not the topic
you LIKE the prose style of translated chinese novels compared to tradpub english writing?

we've already gone over this, people can't separate content from writing quality. anything they like has "good sentence level writing" and anything they don't, doesn't

>>25597949
>tradpub english
The curtains wistfully clocked the shadows on the wall. Bill could barely look at his coffee as he choked out the words— prostate sludge. He had prostate sludge. I fingered my watch to pass seconds that felt like years while the clock wistfully curtained in the light. Perchance.
>ching chong kino
Lu Bu stabbed everyone and they screeched like the almond bugs.

"I have a power level over 1 million in Rise of Kingdoms! Kowtow and maybe I'll spare your sperm cells' sons and wives!"

They didn't kowtow.

Lu Bu stabbed everyone's sperm cells' sons and wives.

Confucius spoke of this.

>>25597928
A Practical Guide to Evil has none of these.

>>25597964
it has light romance elements

>>25597928
>no romance
asexual purity slop is 10x worse i would rather have fifty fully described rape scenes than have platonic shipbait garbage

>>25597928
im just mad at how shitty this list is for filtering out popular web novels
>separating game mechanics and system into their own points
>regression called out for some reason?
>romance when it's highly unpopular in webfic
you're a fucking larper

>>25597236
The lesson here is a place with one mod who's never around is better than a place with mods who are always patrolling for wrongthink.

>>25597945
Time loop is regression

>>25598057
wrong

>>25597949
Trab pub > Kindle > Chinese = Scribblehub > Royal Road

File: IshtarAGOCTCoverWP.png (271 KB, 400x600)

271 KB PNG

today for literally absolutely no particular reason I felt like drawing in photoshop and discovering for the first time the billjillon brushes it has.. BILLIONS must draw. and write.

>people translating tolkein came up with the term "demon king"
lol lmao

>>25598163
Literally what are you talking about or who are you quoting? That's not true.

>>25597986
>separating game mechanics and system into their own points
Game mechanics and system are their own points. A system specifically refers to some sort of interactable interface available to one or more characters. It's rare but such a system doesn't have to involve game mechanics. Purely monologue and dialogue based systems are a thing.

As an example, in Academy Survival Gallery, the main character's system is an interface that lets them chat with the dead.

>>25598091
Trapped in a time loop is regression. A stable time loop isn't. Depends on what they meant.

>>25597375
>20 followers is not enough for me to commit years, or even months, of my life to
Retard, the number of followers correlates directly with the age of the story and the number of chapters. These one night wonders are freak exceptions. Most fictions only really start growing 2-3 months in. I've even seen cases where a story blew up after a year. You can't fucking tell how it's going to turn out if you give up when it's barely begun.

>>25597959
That's straight pre-AI mtl. Nowadays AI can translate chinese text in style of (already translated) xianxia or even traditionally published works.
Prose or translation isn't the issue, absolute retards going to chatgpt and generating entire novels is the real problem, and it will remain a problem for at least couple of years until chatgpt can generate better novels than human authors.

>>25598391
>That's straight pre-AI mtl. Nowadays AI can translate chinese text in style of (already translated) xianxia or even traditionally published works.
the pre-AI mtl is better

>>25598391
>until chatgpt can generate better novels than human authors.
Generating better novels requires preserving context. Preserving context requires exponentially more tokens. That's not going to be affordable with current techniques. There would need to be an entirely new kind of genAI than the LLMs currently in use.

>>25598327
Sunk cost fallacy

>>25598404
How many tokens are we talking about? Looking at programming, AI can already do massive projects, literally thousands of lines of code and they compile, doing 100k word novel is what in todays tokens? $200?

>>25598397
Said the guy who never tried to read Syosetu using Google Translate pre-AI.
Google Translate is way better now that it incorporates Gemini. It’s the one useful thing that model does.

>>25598431
>Looking at programming, AI can already do massive projects, literally thousands of lines of code and they compile
Thousands of lines of code is nowhere near as complex as thousands of sentences. It also invariably involves a shitton of reused elements that save on costs.

And even with that, coding is still a massive money loser for AI companies. They're just trying to get customers to integrate AI into their workflow so they can jack up prices later. Some are already switching over their pricing model.

>>25598495
It's less complex. Talk to google ai (free), it has no issues constructing complex sentences and not just sentences but entire paragrahps and literal walls of text.

>>25598431
>How many tokens are we talking about? Looking at programming
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HRzXk8vlk
AI is godawful for affordable coding even with it being able to repurpose open source code, a thing you can't get away with with books.

>>25598431
$20 actually. People have been spamming out so many books Amazon had to limit the number of books a person can publish in a week.

>>25598501
M8, the average line of code is };

>>25598431
>>25598495
Programmer here. Your novel isn't context, neither is your programming project. Both are considered input files. The AI tools uses search tools to look through it as needed, depending on your conversation. That means it will miss things, break convention, repeat existing work, etc.

Context is usually just the conversation you are currently having, along with any settings files. This degrades over the course of a conversation, maybe 20 messages and it's getting notably worse. On the upside everything in your conversation is taken into account.

>>25598507
We're talking about hypothetical future self-consistent books, not the slop currently being shit out by LLMs.

>>25598509
>This degrades over the course of a conversation
Unless you keep feeding in bigger and bigger input files which balloons both the operating and financial cost, which was my point.

And can we appreciate the fact that code is significantly more siloed than prose? Ultimately any part of code only has to worry about the current function, its inputs, and its outputs. Prose doesn't work that way since LLMs don't understand time or space and even where you can get them to understand something approximating condition it has to keep that coherent for every person, place, and thing, through the entire work.

Try explaining a flashback to your average LLM.

>>25598523
There's hacks like trying to enforce consistent names, gender, etc, but those are frankly stopgap solutions.

It's unbelievable how lazy people are. I can't believe it's even considered a problem that you can't generate a full masterpiece novel while perfectly preserving context. It's solved just by prompting one chapter at a time, the user maintaining consistency through his own instructions. But no, that's too much asked of sloppers. They want to make bank with 0 effort. No personal involvement whatsoever. It's insane that cretins that so openly scorn writing and reading are able to profit from fiction.

>>25598640
>It's solved just by prompting one chapter at a time, the user maintaining consistency through his own instructions
You might as well just write the novel yourself. Also there would be no set up and pay off between chapters except for the broadest of strokes incorporated into prompts.

>Just create a narrative bible, a story outline, and prompt each scene individually while making sure to include details about who is in what time, place, and condition and what needs to happen to them in that scene to get to the next story beat.
At that point all the AI is doing is slightly padding your word count and giving you a shitton more editing work all while costing you money.

Also, I don't think anyone in this discussion is a slopper. People churning out AI shit now aren't concerned with when it will be better than human writing. We're discussing the impracticalities of getting AI to affordably generate novels better than humans and why those impracticalities aren't going away anytime soon without fundamental changes to available AI tools.

>>25598719
>You might as well just write the novel yourself

>Writing 100 words is the same as writing 80,000
Fucking retard, literally too stupid to live

>>25598736
>his story can be described in 100 words
bro...

>>25598736
If you think you can get a consistent novel length work with 100 words worth of prompts, you should try actually reading the shit you're getting.

>>25598431
>exponentially increasing tokens
That's the limiting factor. It's ready to get it to write a few hundred decent words. A few thousand is harder. Tens of thousands is way way harder.
With programming one of the advantages is that the AI can test whether the program functions. It can't really do that with writing.

Let’s see how useful AI really is.
I’ve got a bit of free time and a free Claude account. Give me a writing prompt and I’ll try turning it into a proper 2,500 words chapter.

yesterday morning I randomly stumbled upon someone talking about Worm. I then read a bunch of Worm wiki articles and decided to reread Worm. I've already read about 20%. This shit is so fucking fetch.
Tattletale a massive bitch btw.

>>25598983
No Bitch is the other lady

>>25597998
>>25597236
I think it's funny that the problematic guy had been in charge for years and nothing bad has happened. The entire community grew without any issues, but it's suddenly important to deal with this issue "because they're afraid of how he's going to react".

This is the kind of backstabbing I read about in my winnies.

>>25598978
Prompt it to novelize the pinning scene from Signs.

>>25598978
A man finds the end of the universe: Two guys pissing at the corners of two separate buildings directly across the street from each other, making eye contact with each other.

>>25598431
>doing 100k word novel is what in todays tokens? $200?
the expensive frontier models like opus are 20 dollars per 1 million tokens and 1 token is roughly a word
so for 100k words, about 2 dollars through the api. the api is also much, much, much more expensive than a plan. you could easily write and iterate on dozens of books over a month with a 20 dollar plan

>>25598983
Kind of a shame the author is a one-hit wonder. Everything after that has been various levels of shit.

I am a writer who has spent half their fiction making era using AI, before I transitioned to writing stories myself.
I got attached to AI pre ChatGPT, and I managed to make several long stories with it. It sucked, but I also wanted it to suck.
Back then, because AIs were stupid, it took a larger hand creatively to keep AIs vaguely on track, and you had to edit the output to make it have sense.
This is because models were much smaller around 2020-2022, and hallucinated so much that the only effective use would be to make stories, imo. It couldn't help with any facts, and they weren't even made as chatbots back then either.
Now I don't use AI anymore, because AI has changed. I just wonder why the current era of AI users are so lazy compared to my era.
Modern AI users don't have creative ideas or stuff like that, unlike the pre ChatGPT AI user generation. They just merge games, make lazy crap books to make a quick buck, and make bots for Reddit.
Where are the real people with vision and passion using AI? Probably, they self selected themselves out of using AI, because of environmental and economic job impacts.

>>25598983
>worm
But that's foid mc no? Ewww

>>25599095
Most of the greats are femc.

If you think Worm is good, you've gotta read the tens of thousands of fanfictions. Most of them are progression fantasy adjacent too, at least of what I've read

>>25599102
Worm fanfictions*, if my original message was unclear

>>25599098
No, those are strictly male mc.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/search/169736435/?q=%2A&t=post&c[child_nodes]=1&c[nodes][0]=115&c[tags]=alternate+power&o=date

There's a lot of Worm fanfictions focused on power scaling and battles

>>25599115
Worm
A Practical Guide to Evil
Clara Casewell, Attorney to the Villainess
The Years of Apocalypse
The Villainess Is An SS+ Rank Adventurer

>>25598327
>These one night wonders are freak exceptions.
Not true. You have it completely backwards
The vast majority of stories that succeed, started out successful. Because if you don't, you wither in obscurity. There are very few people looking through the infinite piles of trash that are sub 1k follower stories
The freak exceptions are the ones that DONT hit rising stars/best rated and somehow put on a meaningful amount of followers over the following years.

File: 1782469458539.jpg (170 KB, 1056x2036)

170 KB JPG

>>25599125

what the FUCK is a spectral soul demon venerable?

>>25593268
>there's a shocking percent of authors who do way above average here compared to every other non-private community, actually
Believe it or not, (most of the) writing advice here tends to be good to somewhat great advice. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is sometimes delivered in a brutally honest fashion, with a smirk and a smug. If you can accept that, the advice itself is often priceless and your ego should have +1 armor as well if you are going to think about being a writer, don't you think so anon.The other bad news is that you have to decide for yourself which advice is worth taking, and which is worthless and coming from the witless. So there you're being trained to learn how to take advice. You have to know how to use this place, you can't just lurk in here 2 days and then you post and its all happy shit. You go home in tears you try that Chitwood and you don't have thick skin. This, is, 4chins!

>>25599123
I tried to read the Weaver Option but the author seemed more interested in writing a 40k fan-fiction. Skitter barely appeared so I dropped it.

>>25594016
>yeah sorry for interrupting the sparkling discussion that was already ongoing anon
top kek, I expected no less and you didn't disappoint me anon

Is using a light RPG system to determine outcomes of fights based on stats, and writing the results in prose, gonna make it feel like there is less ass pulls and more logical consistency to readers? Isn't some of this stuff called LitRPG, and have literal in universe RPG mechanics?
And if a result doesn't work for the story, maybe you can retry?
It's fun because I write like this already. But I am not trying to make money off of my writing.

>>25595704
>even if you try to iron the structure out into prose, ai is just desperate for that witty zinger somewhere
I had to look at AI even though I hated the idea. Everyone picks out their own AI gem, I think. Mine was noticing there was always, and I mean *always*. A silver something moon, over described with such prose beauty it stood out among the rest. The soft clouds were peeling back as if curtains to... you get the idea. But the "silver moon" descriptions seemed to me to be somewhat universal, others notice other things.

>>25599251
I remember reading a LitRPG story where the author wanted to do something similar and would roll dice to determine the results of story events and fights, like a true RPG. They had to end the series after they rolled a sequence of critical fails and the MC died. Sometimes autism goes too far.

>>25597050
>Femc or any supporting foid characters?
am I busted for saying yes? I look at all the WN covers, they all have cute anime girls on them. But I can see the isekai or other trope forced into a western trad novel format. Even if online, I want it written to book length. Not a never ending suspended story. Things explained. A start, a middle, an end. And an end with some kind of conclusion, not just an open cliffhanger to the next million words in the next arc. I feel the gravity pull that some of these tropes have, and I want to see it come to fruit. The trope just needs "interpreted" isn't the right word but close enough.

>>25597134
>What would Spectral Soul do in this situation?
hopefully post on plebbit, dare to dream

>>25597256
this, and other cry-bully bullshit

>>25597412
>what if you just nail the ending because your plot is like pic related and all of your 20 followers go holy shit and spread the good word for you
what is "pacing", Alex.
Correct!
I'll stay with "writing techniques" for 800, Alex.

>>25597418
>i think most readers are willing to suffer through a bad start to get to the good stuff, but not a bad 80%-of-the-entire-series
I suffer the most toe-curling and scathing lectures how the first sentence, the first word better "immerse" the reader and "draw them in". Story better open on action, blah blah. Fantasy Fiction Formula be damned, it is a common thing to be told.

>>25599276
>am I busted for saying yes?
>I want it written to book length. Not a never ending suspended story. Things explained. A start, a middle, an end. And an end with some kind of conclusion, not just an open cliffhanger to the next million words in the next arc
Sorry, you're in the wrong general, try >>>/lit/sffg or r/romantasy

>>25599032
Okay. I’ve tried, but this thing (free Claude) fucking sucks. I ran out of tokens already while still in the outlining stage.
Fuck this. Imma go to sleep.

>>25599335
>Sorry, you're in the wrong general, try >>>/lit/sffg or r/romantasy
its not a romance, its not a romantasy.

>if it has women its a romance

>>25599467
>>if it has women its a romance
Well I beg to differ, sir.
If I set out before the first word to make it a central point that there will be zero sexual activity of any kind, zero romance. That's a possibility. I find myself forgetting that its a female body I'm writing for the hero. I completely disregard the entire thing. You can deliberately break a rule, anon. Its a thing.

Can you niggers stop feeding the schizo

>>25599405
Use Gemini for outlining.
Chatgpt for characters
DeepSeek to write.
Edit with Claude.
Povertymaxxed slopstack.

>every post I dislike was made by the same anon

File: 1792089852301489m.jpg (50 KB, 1024x782)

50 KB JPG

Notice how nobody brought that accusation but he felt the need to defend himself anyway.

>>25599123
Is SB still active?
Shit son

>>25599561
It's very active for a forum

>>25599276
>I look at all the WN covers, they all have cute anime girls on them.
Look at RS right now. There are all of 8 covers with cute anime girls on them. 8/50. That's pretty fucking far from "all." Not even 20%

>>25599137
>The freak exceptions are the ones that DONT hit rising stars/best rated
Most stories hit RS only after 1-2 months of almost daily posting. They wouldn't ever get there if the author quit after first week because they only had 20 followers then and judged it not worth their precious time.

>>25599687
You can look at RS right now and see that a lot of those stories got to RS pretty much instantly, some with literally 10 chapters.

>>25599687
>They wouldn't ever get there if the author quit after first week because they only had 20 followers then and judged it not worth their precious time.
Okay? 'In one week' was never the discussion
But even setting that hallucination of yours aside, 20 followers in 1 week isn't remotely on pace for RS main

>>25599689
Those stories also drop off of the list much faster

Why would anyone even "Follow" a story that's finished? You just read it and move on.

>>25599699
It depends. Only if the growth flatlines for some reason. Not sure why you would make a sweeping statement like that.

>>25599704
It's based on data. You can be on RS for 3-6 weeks max. A story that stops updating stops gaining momentum cause readers can tell it's dead. Then the algo kicks it off of RS so another story can take its place.

>>25599699
What does that even matter? They already got theirs.