Would you live in a space colony if they were real?
>>23416876I mean, I’d miss all the fresh air and nature that makes earth beautiful. It would be cool as fuck to visit but to actually live there it might get claustrophobic even if it’s fucking massive. And then there’s the ever looming threat of mobile suits fighting around
>>23416876On one hand, spaceOn the other hand, probably super restrictive with lots of rules for the safety of the colony. Unable to become a hermit.I dunno
>>23416876fuck no
>>23416876Fuck yeah
>>23416876Hell no. I refuse to even get on a plane. Space is fucking horrifying and we see how easily colonies get popped in shows.
BOY I SURE DO LOVE THE HUSTLE AND BUSTLE OF LOVING ON A COLONY
>>23416876yeah probably
>>23416876People probably die a lot because the solar radiation, so that would make love sucks in general.Also considering that most people go in heavy debt to be relocated, the life there must be pretty demoralizing.
>>23416876How fucked up would earth be in this scenario?
>>23416876Weren't all the poors forcefully relocated to space cookies while the wealthy and powerful stayed behind on Earth? I probably wouldn't have a choice.
>>23416876Get me the fuck off this rock.
>>23416930you are always less than 90 minutes away from being obliterated by a nuclear weapon, don't sweat it
>>23416876Which would you rather live, space colony or Australia?
>>23417081I don't even want to live in Australia now
>>23416876It would depend on some thingsAs others pointed out it could be super restrictive and shitty if you ever wanted to be left aloneIf life in a space colony was more free than life on Earth I might. On just the raw level of a fantasy, hell yea I'd live in space. Practically speaking it would depend on how I lived there, how the government was handled, who I was living with, and a bunch of other boring stuff.
No, I get sick on any mode of transportation already, I would be dead the moment I was in space.
>>23416876>Would you live in a space colony if they were real?Such megastructure imply a much higher technological level.Of course I'm in!Something people ignore because barely any SF does it, is that rotating colonies can be linked together in grids.So you can easily take the vacuum-train to the 1G comfy-summer colony, to the 0.8G extreme-snowsport colony, pass by the 0.3G jetpack-freefly-colony, spend time at the 1.2G fitness-colony and go back to your 1G cyberpunk-metropolis.>>23416901>On the other hand, probably super restrictive with lots of rules for the safety of the colony. A city where the police is authorized to kill dangerous retards? Worth following regular decompression drills.>Unable to become a hermit.Wonder why anon would say that, dystopic "forced socialization" can just mean you can be a hermit as long as you stay polite and professional when out of your VR-feeding-tank.>>23416972>People probably die a lot because the solar radiation, so that would make love sucks in general.Ah yes, better live in nature under the light of an gigantic uncontrolled fusion nuclear reactor only protected by a weak electromagnetic field and the atmosphere.Much better than living in a 100% custom-made paradise as shielded as you want, where you can even control gravity.>Also considering that most people go in heavy debt to be relocated, the life there must be pretty demoralizing.Taking UC Gundam lores, many went there willingly and Earth ecosystem was breaking down even before the colony drop.And have you seen the interior of those "horrible demoralizing colonies?" like OP pic?Even the metropolis-kind don't chose to extend their building all the way to the center, where you'd have lower gravity but stack more peoples.
I already hate the cities we already have. Why would I want to live in a hyper city in space where my purchasing power and travel are restricted by arbitrary space politics.
>>23418059Arbitrary Earth politics aren't really much different. Less RCS I guess.
>>23416876For riding out the drop? He'll yes!
>>23416876I mean I wouldn't mind if it was one of the less populated colonies and also not one of the colonies that gets punctured with holes, genocided, or gassed every few years.
How big are the colonies again?
>>23416876MaybeIf the food is actually good and nutrient paste slop
>>23416876What are my chances of getting gassed or eaten by a beyblade? And don't say 0. The chances of being raped by a beyblade in space are low, but they're never 0.
>>23416876Can't we just colonize a planet?
>>23419977>Can't we just colonize a planet?Good luck finding a planet that- has a gravity comfortable for human- has a biosphere compatible with humanIf you think about terraforming, let me tell you that it's not just costly, it's costly beyond your wildest expectation and every Sci-Fi movie typically handwave that so they can film their movie in Earth's wilderness.Think Mars is close enough if we accept the 0.3G?Nope, it's not, for the cost needed to terraform it you could build BILLIONS of gundam-sized O'neill space colonies. That's how massive the atmosphere it lacks is, also counting the water you have to import.In a way, you could build giant bio-domes on the surface or the underground of a planet. Much cheaper than trying to make the whole planet like that.But you'll be stuck with the same type of gravity and it wouldn't make resources that much accessible.If you have the means to transport material to another planet and turn any mineral into every compound you need, then it's no effort at all to get those resources from asteroids.
>>23420064Hell, aren't there a fuck load of Colonies in UC that just go unseen by the time ZZ rolls around and they start expanding on the wider setting a bit more? Like, to the point something like 9 out of 10+ billion feddies live in colonies, and that's just the feds. I feel like I remember a number of something involving millions as the population of a typical colony, so you're looking at hundreds if not thousands of colonies already, god knows what that did to the resources in the solar system. Bio domes are likely the way to go though for celestial bodies though, just look at how the moon was handled.
>>23416876fuck no, every time someone has a minor spat, they genocide a colony to turn it into a WMD.
>>23417050pretty much, no one volunteers to be a colonist really, the earth government just says>fuck off we're full and puts you on the next rocket off planet.
>>23420064What if we made them spin?
>>23420226IRL it's the opposite and G Gundam and Witch from mercury are more correct.It's the Rich who want to get away from the poor(the 99.99 percent of the population who are not billionaires).
>>23420250What if it stops?
>>23420307We call it an incident when 95% of the inhabitants die and use it as a central plot point for something.
>>23420333Throw this in par for course.
>>23420127As good as UC is, it still suffers a lot from "authors have no sense of scale".Like how "half of mankind died in the first part of the war" (which would have involved far more than regular colony drop), even counting on starvation from horrible harvest due to extinction level impact (which a single colony drop cannot do).Plus, with the crazy tech level needed for all the colonies, their emergency logistic would be godlike.>>23420250Still cheaper than terraforming a planet.but...If you are going to put people into a gigantic tube rotating for gravity, might as well do it in orbit so you do not have to design the cities as if built on a slope (because of the original gravity.)You can have easy access to the ground with a Lunar elevator that won't even require magical material like a Earth one would.
>>23420809Okay, maybe just a ring, then?
>>23417068The difference is if I get nuked it will be over before I know what's happening. If your on a colony and shit gets fucked there is plenty of time realize that you are gonna die.
>>23420397Is this an avifag?
>>23421157He's a weird guy who seems to try to constantly post Gundam images from that particular book with shooped in characters to try to showcase his personal ideal scale for MS in general. I am pretty sure he also did it with the Hulkbuster years back.
yeah
>>23420809>Like how "half of mankind died in the first part of the war" (which would have involved far more than regular colony drop), even counting on starvation from horrible harvest due to extinction level impact (which a single colony drop cannot do).When Zeon (based in Side 3) started the OYW, they attacked Sides 1, 2, and 4 on January 3, UC 0079 with 2.8 billion people killed (https://web.archive.org/web/20110221004946/www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/uc/background/timeline.html). That was BEFORE Operation British.While we don't know the total population of the Earth Sphere by January 1, UC 0079 (two days before the OYW started; please correct me on this if I'm wrong), the MSG setting notes (https://gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamsetting.html) claim an O'Neill Cylinder-type colony can take in 36 million people and each Side had 35-40 colonies, thus having each Side's population at 1.3 million. As to how many died in Operation British (which started on January 4, UC 0079 and the colony used hit Earth on January 10), that would be 200 million people killed as a result (https://gundamunofficial.com/archive/entertainmentbible39.html).And even then, that's not half of humanity. We still don't know what happened to Side 5/Loum other than it being a battlefield that led to the colonies there (save for Texas and even that was abandoned) destroyed.
>>23421115>I don't want a luxurious O'neill type colony with entire forest!>I'll settle in this tiny rotating corridor instead!That said, if you absolutely need human on the ground in the period before you can afford a lunar elevator, that's an acceptable compromise.I would more expect us to beeline remote robot controlled from space as worker than sending human.
>>23421284>We still don't know what happened to Side 5/Loum other than it being a battlefieldNukes, nukes everywhere.But that's still the problem, you need to methodically destroy every colonies, in each Side, to cause that many deaths.Oh and those deaths are supposed to have happened during the "one week battle".Taking that statement as exact also make "Operation british" completely insignificant in comparison to the hundreds of nukes that must have been launched in rapid fire at a hundred colonies, plus metropolis on Earth.
>>23421432
>>23421452Pic related is an excerpt from Entertainment Bible 39 to explain how Zeon was able to coordinating such an attack and to cause that much destruction and death.
>>23421475Meant "coordinate such an attack".
>>23421193You are correct! But no, I did not shoop it because it's already the ideal size. You know Mobile SUITS.
>>23420250>>23421115At least give the habitat some protection, Yeesh!
>>23416876Its like being a refugee. A person is bound to the earth where he grew up. The actual soil. People unmoored, uprooted from this natural connection become restless and ill at heart.
>>23421452Operation British isn't significant in its scale compared to the losses in space, but it does represent a, "Holy shit they actually DROPPED a COLONY and wiped out a major population center on EARTH," line-crossing. Think of the WWII European Eastern Front versus the attack on Pearl Harbor. Think of everything that happened in the Middle East in the 80s versus 9/11. Think of October 7th versus the Israeli Genocide of Palestine. The numbers don't matter if you it's the wrong people and you don't have footage.
>>23417081You cannot fathom how much I want Operation British to not only come true but to also wipe out Melbourne
>>23422117I have to know more about the sentiments behind this comment because it suggests someone with a personal hatred of Melbourne - likely an Australian - who somehow doesn't know that Melbourne and Sydney are on opposite sides of the continent.
>>23422180>Melbourne and Sydney are on opposite sides of the continent.While technically true, it's not exactly going through the long way.
>>23422180I live in Brisvegas and the pain that Sydney and Melbourne have inflicted upon me are immense
>>23421957The numbers matter because they make any footage you could take into a footnote.No one would care about Pearl Harbor if prior to it the Japanese had somehow destroyed half of US harbor the week before.No one would care about 9/11 if prior to it terrorist somehow found the way to methodically set fire to half of New York the week before.And those are remembered as the INITIAL ATTACK."Operation British" would only stand equal if instead of nuking 100+ colonies Zeon had started with only this colony.That's why it is a case of "Author has no sense of scale but wanted it to be impressive" and we have to make up our own canon to fit the narrative they want.Also we are ignoring that according to maths I saw, a space colony wouldn't be enough to create a crater that big.
>>23422468MARIMO-CHAAAAAN ;-;
>>23421452Small colony clusters may well have been done in by one or two of their sibling colonies debris. You might only need to have killed one central colony in each cluster to have it's inherent rotation just lob shit heaps of fragments out at it's neighbors.
>>23422470Don't lose your head over her, Anon.
>>23420064cost is not even the worst part of terroforming a planet, its the time that takes to terrafrom the whole planet, it takes hundreds of thousands or even millions of years depending on the tech level of the civilization
>>23417050While that is the case with Gundam I think it'd largely be the inverse IRL.Wealthy urbanites already live in bubbles where they have everything clustered into the small space of their cities, and these areas tend to have a fuckload of imports for necessities and luxuries. Like there's ongoing stories of Japanese tea producers struggling with potential shortages because of rapidly increased demands of matcha from Western yuppies.The type of people who call their breadbasket "flyover country" isolating themselves to live out in space and only going to Earth for tourism seems like a reasonable direction. Space colonies being essentially hyperbolic analogues to current big cities would make sense.
>>23417050Not all the poors. Plenty of poor people on Earth still. But, yeah, the collonists were mostly poor apparently, which is why there's a general prejudice against "Earth elites" even though there are still many poor people living on Earth in UC Gundam.
>>23417291t. EF shill
>>23419977other planets are really far and they all suckit takes a really long time to get to mars and the atmosphere is so thin that liquid water cannot existthe surface of venus is really hot and the pressure is too highneither planet has a magnetic field which makes them suck extra
>>23416876Yeah but not a lame gundam one
>>23422482While not impossible, as a space-nerd I'll point out colonies are built on Lagrange point.Even the stable one do not have the debris stay unless they were methodically put into orbit.
>>23416876Is spacenoid pussy better than lunar or martian pussy?
>>23422468>No one would care about Pearl Harbor if prior to it the Japanese had somehow destroyed half of US harbor the week before.No, your analogy is off. It would have to be hundreds of thousands killed in a far-away place, with lower visibility to the Americans (Earthnoids) who were horrified by Op. B (Pearl Harbor). ...Are you a Japanese national who wasn't taught about the Rape of Nanking? Because that would explain a lot.
>>23425793I don't want to get political in this nice space colony thread, but you've forgotten of what it is a symbol: a murderous first strike.The US take Pearl Harbor because that's the initial & showy first strike against themselves.China was already at war so Nanking would be more the symbol of the horror done by Japan.In the fictional case of Gundam the numbers are just plain ridiculous if you take them seriously."Zeon(/Fed) killed half of mankind in one week, nuking dozens of space colonies into lifeless gigantic hulk but please pretend to only care and hate them for the last colony they dropped to decapitate the Federation."Even if you made half of those deaths the fault of the Federation also spamming nukes, it would still be a first strike from Zeon and the colony drop would be relegated as a closure event, like the nuking of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, not a start.Space Putin would say:"We had to try to decapitate the evil Federation before they nuke any more of our precious colonies (we obviously dropped an evacuated one, as our history book will show)"So that's clear cases of absurd numbers that have to be ignored/retconned to make it into the intended analogy.Btw, the crater is also ridiculously large, the Vredefort crater was made by an asteroid ten times bigger and inevitably a hundred time more massive than an empty colony.
>>23424552That's all spacenoid pussy, and yes, it's better than earthnoid pussy.
>>23425793>>23426121Funny we mention tragedies today after 80 years...
>>23422468No sense of scale is correct.
>>23426587I think the only time I saw something portrayed as apocalyptic that seemed like it was actually going to be was a book where some aliens threw Iapetus at Earth.IIRC Gundam Century's energy numbers are at least (roughly) correct. Can't remember if the rotation shift effect was even close.
>>23426603And then we have Aldnoah Zero, which was even worse than the Hadean Era Bombardment.
>>23416876Assuming I had the choice? No. I much prefer living on Earth for all the amenities and little gifts that our beautiful planet provides. Space Colonies are built for the "excess" humans of Earth because of overpopulation, like a futuristic Ellis Island. If I were living on a colony, it would be because I or my ancestor wasn't good enough to live on Earth, or because we were too poor and thought we could have a better life in a space tube.
>>23428058>Space Colonies are built for the "excess" humans of Earth because of overpopulation, like a futuristic Ellis Island.That really isn't anything like what Ellis was used for.
>>23428228Well, yeah, but you get my meaning. The rich people of the old world weren't immigrating to America in the 1800's. It was poor people who were needed for the factories and the mines and railroads.
>>23416876Perhaps if it were to offer me a lot of freedom. I really want o abandon society.
>>23422933This is basically what G-Gundam, SEED, and GWitch did with regards to colony demographics. In G getting off the ruined earth by emigrating to the colonies was a hard fought for privilege. Chibodee's whole backstory is that he's a poor earth kid who achieved the "American Dream" of moving to the metaphorical first-world that is the colonies. In Seed the colonies are all settled by the descendants of rich people who Gattaca'd themselves and wanted to avoid the angry poors. And finally in GWitch the corporate elite settled in space colonies so they could independently act against earths nation states without interference. Wing is kind of vague on how space is actually being settled, it seems to be in its early stages since the majority of people in the colonies seem to be the people building them, and there's plenty of powerful ruling class people in the colonies like the Bartons and Winners. And we never really get a clear idea of just how much of the population is actually in the colonies vs still on earth in the first place.
>>23416876only if there are no Jooz and Indians in there, yes
>>23426648Lol at a certain island nation there being somehow completely unaffected by the catastrophic sea level changes.
>>23421816>>23421457>>23421432>>23421229>>23421115>>23420250>>23420064Honestly with all the work, never-ending maintenance and zero margin for error this stuff entails, it's probably far more efficient to genetically/cybernetically engineer humans to be able to live under a greater range of gravities and and atmospheres (or none at all).
In MS 08th team, there is still people living in straw hut in the middle of the jungle.Meanwhile the colony where the supposed "poor" people oppressed by Earth Elite resides doesn't seem to have any designated slum anywhere.But suppose a fascist space government ever rose up in space, I am booking the first trip to Jupiter/mars/whatever.
>>23428058Space colonization would be the equivalent of living at Dubai, and arguably owning the place, because living there would be incredibly more expensive than stacking people in a camp on Earth.The only imaginable logic where you offload "excess humans" in space, imply a world government defending "excess humans" right to a quality of life equivalent than Earthnoid, conceding that if Earth isn't enough for billions to have 100m2 house, then they have to replicate Earth in space.If we go for separate governments instead, you'd likely be unspeakably rich because colonies would be paid from extracting space-mineral like platinum or fusion fuel extraction, even without owning the place only well-educated people would be allowed to live in such a world ruled by science.The infrastructure needed to even build such colonies mean you'd be able to travel everywhere in the solar system as you want, we will assume only the truly rich people would have their personal spaceship.>>23428235>immigrating to America in the 1800's... funny example since their descendant definitely got the best deal, and arguably so did the original settler/immigrant since America was the place to be.Unclaimed lands, untouched resources, plenty of rooms...As a country at least, obviously current US has the worst class disparity and 0.01% of plutocrat control 99.99 of (wage-)slaves.
>>23428411kinda hard to have slums when there's an abundance of jobs available because the colonist population gets culled every couple of decades.>I am booking the first trip to Jupiter/mars/whatever.you enjoy forced labor? living on the space frontier isn't easy
>>23428384You make a common mistake.You believe that just being on a planet, automatically dismiss the complexity of a vacuum-rated habitat.A colony on Mars would require as much maintenance as what you'd need in a space station, if not more because you need to deal with the Martian weather and gravity make it harder to access space resources.Ground colony in an incompatible biosphere would need to be airtight, pressurized, with a complex life-support system, no allowing any mistake and quadruple redundant systems, requiring fully man-made walls underground because dust from digging isn't good for your health.Terraforming a planet (even just the atmosphere) is impossible, or rather it requires so much resources that it would only be a vain luxury bringing little you can't obtain in other ways. The only unique resources Mars possess is a 0.3G gravity.>genetically/cybernetically engineer humansWe could longly debate about the ethics of creating species only be able to live on one specific planet and not be able to interact with other humans.Just pointing out that extending the range to make gravity irrelevant would let you live in 0G station or 0.1G moon and ignore planet completely.
There' a bit of dialogue in Wing that encapsulates the realities of living in a space colony:>The Space Colonies is a realm of precise calculations. This management center was always supporting the colony's life zone. The colony's rotation operations, checking atmospheric conditions, management of the weather. Natural phenomena that are taken for granted on Earth is generated by man-made machinery controlled by people here. To live in this atmosphere, there was a need to change people's awareness. There's insecurity. Unless you can completely ignore insecurity, you'll have a lot of difficulties living here.
>>23428378And still, even in this universe, Oz gets shit on. Still, nice to see the idea of a O'Neill getting attention main stream.
>>23428378geographically japan would be almost completely unaffected by sea levels rising since the nation is almost entirely made up of mountains
>>23430293everything-else-wise, they'd be completely fucked though, because basically the entire country lives in those two relatively flat sea level areas.
>>23430293I was going to berate you until I saw your other post >>23430297Yep, turn out the most floodable area are also the place mankind tend to flock to.
>>23416876UC space colonies not only lack two cylindes for O'Neill colonies, which need 2 cylinders, but usually space colonies are depicted far more fragile to weapons than they ought to be. If so fragile, their own rotation would destroy them.
>>23442856>not only lack two cylindes for O'Neill colonies, which need 2 cylindersYou don't need to stop at two, and technically you can remove the need for a second simply by having a second reactive-wheel spinning the other way.Which is something you are likely to have since- it allows to start/control the spinning without using propellant,- it allows you to store kinetic energy for emergency.>usually space colonies are depicted far more fragile to weapons than they ought to beNot sure about that.A rotating space colony is all about tensile strength, and it can be achieved in a way similar to a suspension bridge.And you really don't want to be on a bridge that's experiencing a resonance reaction.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XggxeuFDaDUSomething which I think would happen if the colony lost a whole mirror arm (if actually as heavy as portrayed), requiring to destroy the two other to balance it out.A nuclear explosion inside a colony would make its atmosphere expand, with no way out but through the glass (3 island design) or the structure only built to resist accidental disaster.So yes, maybe a colony built to bear the weight of a mountain wouldn't notice the explosion.Or maybe the mountain was empty inside to avoid needing counterweight on the other side.
>>23416895>I’d miss all the fresh air and nature that makes earth beautiful>fresh air of pollutionEven if you live in the middle of nowhere, you need to live in the woods to not have terrible air quality. Anywhere even remotely close to a population center is fucked.
>>23444305Given that air would require constant renewing and a space station would absolutely monitor every single source, the air inside space station would likely be far fresher than anywhere on Earth.You won't even have to worry about pollen unless you want those plants, with genetically engineered seeds you could make plants incapable of proliferating out of control.
>>23416876sure
>>23444112>Not sure about that.>A rotating space colony is all about tensile strength, and it can be achieved in a way similar to a suspension bridge.The O'Neil pattern would doubtlessly take most hits that destroy them in Gundam. A properly built O'Neil Cylinder would be built so thickly in even it's thinnest points(like even the "glass" would actually be a transparent alloy rather than actual glass and even that would be dozens of meters thick) that they'd be effectively invulnerable to all but the absolute largest super weapons in the franchise(so things like GENESIS or a Colony Laser), regular MS weaponry would barely scratch anything and even high end beam weaponry would only deal very minor cosmetic damage And yet there's all these countermeasures throughout Gundam that treat MS weapons as having potential to blow up whole colonies. One would assume that colonies would have a thicker exterior given that it needs to provide shielding from harmful cosmic radiation and also from regular impacts from meteors, micro or otherwise.
>>23417086The irony is you would probably get delivered back in the colony
>>23426121You're wrapping yourself into knots trying to argue your way out of acknowledging that people are affinity-focused and care about the things close to them. I'll just state it plainly:>Genocide in spaceEarthnoids don't care. It's far away and the colonies are "new" anyway.>Blow up a major Earth city.Earthnoids care because it's in their backyard and Sydney is hundreds of years old at this point.Anyway, you've kind of already made it /m/-style political by carrying water for the "Space Nazis who totally didn't off half of humanity /s". Going back to the analogy, you're arguing like the Aryan/Japanese nationalists who contend that the Holocaust/Rape of Nanking (respectively) couldn't have happened because "the numbers are too high". Well... history says they did. Denial isn't rational, it's a hysterical refusal to recognize the atrocity because, ironically, of a recognition of how horrific the scale is. Welcome to the evil humanity is capable of.One possibility I'll brook is that Operation British actually isn't that big of a deal for the UC population - because the other atrocities eclipse it. It's only centered for the benefit of real-life viewers, for the reasons above: billions dying in space are numbers, a chunk bitten out of Australia is serious business.
>>23445117*tying, not wrapping
>>23444914>A properly built O'Neil Cylinder would be built so thicklyMany things wrong in your argumentation.1) thick won't solve that problem, it worsen it because it's more mass, more strain, less room for mistakes as you approach construction limit, you'd actually create explosion vents so you don't need to contain an explosion.2) the only sources of radiation that matter are the sun and nuclear reactors, one is unidirectional and don't require rotating shield, the others are shielded on their own by UC level of technology.3) properly built mean cost-efficienty, only preparing for reasonable danger. That's why suspended bridges aren't built to resist a nuke or even a military grade explosive. 4) finally, all part of a colony aren't equal, the most critical part would be the spindle, damage it and the entire colony start disassembling itself.Even if the advent of the Federation wasn't supposed to mean less war, there's no reason to waste money to survive a genocidal war when having multiple colonies far appart on unstable Lagrange point is already providing redundancy.Also a proper colony (even 3 islands one) would likely have plenty of interior tethers, both for structural reason, for practical construction needs, not just copy artistic illustration of what they could be.
>>23445117You put words in my mouth opposite to what I said, and you are making a fallacious appeal to simplicity to dismiss the genocide of half of mankind into a forgettable event.>It's far away and the colonies are "new" anyway.The colonies are part of the Federation, literally half the human population, by the lore half-forced deportation.It means recent family ties and the investment in building those colonies is still in everyone's mind.The colonies are right above their heads, in direct sight every day and big enough to shine in daylight.Realistically Lagrange point 4 and 5 are not stable so half of what's destroyed there would spread into Earth orbits, that's scary on its own.By your own "plain" logic: nuking half of your family after they moved into mankind's costliest housing program.>Blow up a major Earth city.No different from blowing-up hundred of major Federation cities in space.Logically, it only counts as a marker for the END of the genocidal one-week war. Not as a Pearl Harbor analogy.>Sydney is hundreds of years old at this point.Mr."recognize atrocity" should know that many would love to have the old shed in their backyard full of spiders burns by accident.Analogy are flawed by nature but I think you are conflating two completely different things- the FIRST STRIKE that would remain in memories as plunging your country into war, the one-week war.- generational hate brewed from lasting persecutions and act of genocide.>you're arguing like the Aryan/Japanese nationalists who contend...The complete opposite of what I said.At this point, that's more like your argumentations: "billions dying in space is too high a number" so you deflect on something minor but "relatable" with political motivation.Frankly, I think you are just being contrarian because you like the show's FORCED ANALOGY, despite its tonal contradiction with numbers that are supposed to be canonical. Plus reminding the colony drop effect are grossly exaggerated.
>>23416876Given that cylinders waste half their space on giant fragile-looking windows and mirrors just for the sake of sunlight and it needs such a large diameter to rotate around for gravity, you usually end up with several miles of cylinder that needs to be filled with atmosphere and isn't really good for anything else AND weirdly, they're often depicted with a ton of rural space, with little-to-no actual buildings inside, I dunno. There'd be a lot of empty fuck nothing space.>>23445703>3) properly built mean cost-efficienty, only preparing for reasonable danger.Jesus Christ what the fuck. There's random ass asteroids and meteors randomly flying through space. And what costs when most of the material is gotten from the asteroid belt to the point the colonies are more self-sufficient than Earth and Earth is on life support from all the global disaster? Of course suspension bridges aren't meant to withstand nukes. They're also not made with space materials, made to last for centuries in space, made from resources not from Earth in a setting even Axis has fully contained environments and sustained life when that's just an asteroid mining place they repurposed into a base, etc. Gundam colonies are weak enough that a Zaku reactor explosion blew a hole in Amuro's colony.
>>23444112>and technically you can remove the need for a second simply by having a second reactive-wheel spinning the other way.You need two contra-rotating cylinders in order to neutralize the gyroscopic effects of a single spinning cylinder, and as a way to use the whole habitat as a momentum wheel. You need to keep the cylinders with one endcap pointing at the sun throughout their entire orbit, so as to keep the mirrors illuminated during station daytime. This means they need to be side-by-side, with some structural framework connecting their axes. You CAN decide one cylinder is okay with roundabout solutions and a single cylinder, rotating independently, can still gyroscopically stable, but it’ll only be able to face the Sun once a year. This is the Feds forcing everyone into space but there would be many massive problems which would cause near immediate revolt or problems like why closed colonies are so much less popular because of living conditions if people are still spending so much of the year without the sun. Maybe they're like the lunar cities with domes that simulate sunlight but then why not have closed colonies with that? Really, with UC Gundam, they could've used those resources for tons of individual space stations with artificial gravity spent the resources on asteroid bases at this rate. >A rotating space colony is all about tensile strength, and it can be achieved in a way similar to a suspension bridge.This bridge analogy is heavily flawed for several reasons. First of all, colonies are show falling apart in ways besides collapsing on its own weight or destroying itself via its own rotation. Outside one-shot kills like Wing Zero or super weapons, they should stand. At least SEED has fantasy designs with little to no baring on reality to explain their impracticality.
>>23446752Adding to yours, the scale of a Island 3 structure, most of the important structural aspects of the colony are measured in degrees of thickness of double digit meters if not thicker which combined with the high end alloys and polymers that would be used in space construction means that most any asteroid would leave at most minor cosmetic damage anywhere it'd hit(like sure it might make a crater several feet deep, but when the section it hit is probably 50 to 100 feet thick at it's thinnest point that means basically nothing). >>23446770Secondly, the materials used to build colonies would not be "cheap"; and the walls of a colony would have to be several meters thick just to contain atmosphere. It "can" be achieved multiple ways but to be functional at all, even the cheapest of Federation elites forcing people into space would need a degree of thickness and durability just by necessity. These are stupidly huge in the first place and as above poster mentioned these resources were all obtained via space mining which, if feasible, would have cost-saving advantages sending Earth resources into space. Third, a rotational habitat is sorta like a bridge in that they experience similar forces, but with an Island 3 cylinder, with the amount of surface area inside, it is a lot more akin to a hanging platform held up by rails along the edges. The analogy is very tortured. Now that I think of it>>23446752>made from resources not from Earth in a setting even Axis has fully contained environments and sustained life when that's just an asteroid mining place they repurposed into a base, etc. Gundam colonies are weak enough that a Zaku reactor explosion blew a hole in Amuro's colony.Yeah, why don't they? If you want a secure cylinder, put it in a little hole in an asteroid. This way you can have a kilometer of shielding, which is plenty to resist nuclear bombs. It's assumed these asteroids pulled are all small or disconnected because asteroids are already everywhere
>>23446778-both in solar orbits and planetary orbits, and it wouldn't be too hard to drill a hole in the side to insert your cylinder if they want something defensible. Asteroids range from from less than 10 meters to dwarf planets like Ceres, which is nearly 1000 km in diameter. Island 3 cylinders are usually imagined around 32 km long, and around 8 km in diameter. IRL, the asteroid belt IS heavily disconnected but in Gundam the materials for the colonies are all extracted from them just fine without emptying the whole place and Minovski physics provides all the nuclear fusion energy everyone needs. Moreover, Gundam is a 1979 product while models for estimating the size of the asteroid belt were still made into the 90s and onward. he exact distribution and total mass of asteroids within that belt were still being explored and refined Regardless, you could pack a ton of asteroids together and use them for shielding. In near vacuum a nuke produces almost no shockwave and all radiation, and radiation level falls off very hard in proportion to the distance between your armour and the detonation point. You will have to detonates very close to the shell for the radiation to ablate enough shell materials to produce a big enough shockwave to damage the cylinder structurally. A ton of packed asteroids together could block that easy. I suppose you'd be afraid of asteroids pushed towards your colony like shrapnel after tanking the nuke's kinetic energy that way but it's not like enemies designed a giant barrel to fire asteroids at you with nukes as a gun primer and powder.
>>23446794We wouldn't need to fear much from an asteroid pushed by a nuke.>https://www.npr.org/2022/09/26/1124340144/nasa-dart-shove-asteroid-first-test-planetary-defense>Right now, a full circuit takes 11 hours and 55 minutes. The DART impact should change the path of Dimorphos so that it moves closer to the big asteroid and takes less time to go around, doing so perhaps once every 11 hours and 45 minutes.And that's on an existing moving asteroid NASA hit with a nuke just to test hypothetical world-saving space defenses. A direct hit with a nuke with NASA calculations only slightly nudged it. If you pack a bunch of asteroids together, especially with something holding them, then anything that would push them hard into your Space Colony hard enough to destroy it would've destroyed the Space Colony anyway had the asteroid defense not been there. This indeed raises an interesting point about Space Colonies deliberately using asteroids as defense.
>>23446805For a moment I was really excited but thought it was too good to be true, and it turns out I was right.You talk like they nuked the asteroid but it was never nuclear, it was just a 1 ton mass hitting the rock.
>>23446794>I suppose you'd be afraid of asteroids pushed towards your colony like shrapnel after tanking the nuke's kinetic energyThat'd assume they don't get vaporized. Now that WOULD be a very scary middle ground.>too small so vaporized>too big so didn't move at all>just the right size to survive the hit and be pushed towards what it's protectingBut it'd be much smaller pieces and the shrapnel would be way referable than the threat it would've protected against in the first place. Asteroids as shields would still be viable, especially if it's a closed-type colony where nobody gets sunlight anyway so might as well hide in a big asteroid.
>>23416895And you just know they'd be full of coloreds
>>23446805>>23446822There's other studies about using nuclear bombs against asteroids and it's feasible as a defense. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-024-02633-7It works by heating the surface to tens of thousands of degrees, producing a rapidly expanding ball of gas capable of nudging the asteroid off course. This could save Earth from large asteroids but all relies on years of advanced notice so we can divert the trajectory in time. Too late and we will just slightly change which part of the planet it will hit. The DART mission posted before https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-confirms-dart-mission-impact-changed-asteroids-motion-in-space/ was more of a proof of concept hitting a rather small asteroid with 0 chance of hitting Earth. It did need lots of calculations to pull off though and scientists already calculated a nuclear blast could push an asteroid as wide as 4 kilometers off course.
>>23416876Read the opening to Schismatrix Plus by Bruce Sterling. Or The Green Brain by Herbert. Or just look at the complete failure of Biosphere 2Space Colonies like O'Neill cylinders would be a massive bear to keep functional, both on the mechanical and biological side. Earth is such a perfect spaceship that we drastically underestimate the difficulty of hard booting an functional ecosystem. And then keeping it functional in a incredibly hostile environment. Maybe in another hundred years we will have gotten some real infrastructure in space, but I'm pretty pessimistic.
>>23446752>There's random ass asteroids and meteors randomly flying through space>randomKey word, they aren't, even the small ones. We can already track billions of space debris 10mm in size.So it wouldn't be a problem whatsoever to detect by a civilization that's now used to moving asteroids around.And to resist occasional pebbles you don't need the ability to resist a nuke.>And what costs when most of the material is gotten from the asteroid beltI take it you've never worked in a big company. The cost is the manpower, the energy, the equipment, and the time spent on doing that instead of building other colonies.I can already imagine the meeting:"We need to build colonies for 11 billions peoples in 70yrs and you want to make them Nuke-proof? Maths say we could only make 5 billions that way. And why? We don't even have other countries to declare war to anymore? Are you planning a war?"Gundam didn't reach post-scarcity and Earth is fucked up by MAN'S HUBRIS causing global disaster.>Of course suspension bridges aren't meant to withstand nukes. They're also not made with space materialsAnd why would they need to withstand nukes if made with "space materials"?Getting materials is the least of the problems for bridge construction. Refining them now that take time, we build suspension bridges because it's either impossible, unpractical, or far more costly (in manpower/time) than doing it with any other design.>made to last for centuries in spaceThicker structure is the wrong methods of achieving that, you'll increase structural fatigue (especially with tensile strength) and make it harder to replace parts when you inevitably need to for various reason, and it won't make it cheaper in maintenance.>asteroid colonies1) any asteroid material you haven't processed is not structurally stable, a nuke would create seismic waves breaking everything inside. Asteroids are actually kind of fragile.2) a mining colony isn't built for comfort, it's a sacrifice.
>>23446770>You need two contra-rotating cylinders in order to neutralize the gyroscopic effects of a single spinning cylinderYou misunderstand.-you need a contra-rotating MASS to neutralize the gyroscopic effect, -it doesn't need to be another colony, -it doesn't need to be parallel, -making it dumb mass has other practical use, you can even make it your primary radiation-shield if you want.So you could build an entire GRID of linked 3-island type colonies so long as the gyroscopic effects is neutralized overall.Beside the 3-island kind is a fancy way of obtaining reflected-sunlight and a nice view. It's not efficient and a closed type can be big enough to have blue sky.>This bridge analogy is heavily flawed for several reasons.You pretty much confirmed the opposite.Suspension bridges are dynamic structures, and rotating space-colonies would be even more so. The more mass you need to hold together, the closer to material limit you get, and if you have effect of resonance you discovers the colony will pretty much destroy itself throught vibration or fatigue.>>23446778See previous posts, thickness is not a good idea. It increase structural fatigues and make everything harder to maintain.You only need airtightness & compartimentalization against asteroids.The cheap & efficient solutions against natural problems are NOT good against man-made weapons.>it is a lot more akin to a hanging platform held up by rails along the edges. The analogy is very tortured.Suspension. Bridges.Gundam colonies' doesn't have cables but that's only because the artist simply copied the fancy concept and don't know it would allow to make stronger with less material, nor the practical use of having stable colony-wide crane. You could move entire buildings that way.>Yeah, why don't they?Google "space DART mission" with nearly no gravity holding them together asteroids are NOT solid and compact like underground base.
>>23446805>>23446822>>23446843For clarity, the DART mission didn't "nuke" the asteroid, it was just a very speedy kinetic impact equivalent to quote "11 gigajoules, 3 tons of TNT">>23446805>We wouldn't need to fear much from an asteroid pushed by a nuke.The shrapnel created by the nukes on the other hand... (as say >>23446826)If Gundam's Side weren't on Lagrange points they'd have a serious problem of Kessler effects.>>23446826One objective of the DART mission was to learn how structurally strong are asteroids. Turn out, not so much.
>>23447073Oh boy, this is some crud. >>23444914>>23446770 I'll take this one for you.I take it you haven't worked, ever, in logistics nor dived into theoretical space physics or logistics at all in any sci-fi setting.>We can already track billions of space debris 10mm in size.Most of the asteroids in the belt are small as fuck. That's true. It's also true that large asteroids happen to exist & have the chance to do more damage than necessary especially in a setting with space pirates & the Universal Century timeline started with a giant terrorist attack a la Unicorn Gundam charter. Just assuming nobody would be afraid of similar large scale terrorist attacks or assuming sufficiently powerful weapons (WMDs) would be legally permitted on colonies or that pirates or colonies themselves can't launch terror attacks is more retarded than everything else you wrote. The nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki or even 9/11 which killed far less have huge cultural impact even today, let alone 10 years after they happened. The Earth Federation is a corrupt mess but even they would know better than to get an immediate riot without a way to reassure the population they aren't being forced onto an exploding deathtrap when major incidents are in living memory.>Gundam didn't reach post-scarcity and Earth is fucked up by MAN'S HUBRIS causing global disaster.Retard. You didn't even address what he said about most resources being pulled from space. Space has fucktons of resources from water to materials. The whole deal about being forced into space is overpopulation (or so that's their excuse) in the first place. The cost is people with nowhere to go forced into space & already having legal rights stepped on, the energy which wouldn't be Minovski in half a century but it would be solar power via satellites transmitting microwaves that are already in space, the equipment which would get easier as time went on & they get a foothold into space so they can drag materials back & more.
>>23447073>>23447387ContYou've obviously never worked in any business or system where the initial first step is the hardest but while not smooth sailings, you're much more stable once you've got your foothold. UC Gundam isn't post-scarcity but there are enormous resources in space including UC space where most of the resources to make the colonies came from. They are functionally living off the land & less reliant on Earth resources as time goes on. Others have pointed out that into UC, Earth's on life-support & the colonies were more self-sufficient than Earth. These were key arguments made by Full Frontal, Hathaway, etc. Getting into space initially would be harder but as time goes on, it gets easier. The colonies themselves before Minovsky reactors were widespread mostly relied on solar & Gundam colonies are all about reusing & minimizing waste so it's not like everyone needs several giant asteroids per week's worth of resources to sustain each colony. Jesus, it's like you didn't read O'Neill's proposal of an electromagnetic catapult on the moon to avoid the costs of ferrying from Earth either. In fact, https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11310 Von Braun City was already up & running before Side 3's construction. This was after the first Side 1 colonies but UC Gundam has been planning Lunar settlement for some time (clearly needing its own ups & downs engineering) & making support on the Moon to help constructing the first few colonies would be a great help. The point is, this is a system where the first steps are more painful than the later steps once they get their shit together. You don't build space habitats on a planet & shoot them into space. You build them out of asteroids or beforehand, you got the moon.
>>23447397Cont>And why would they need to withstand nukes if made with "space materials"?Because Universal Century started with a gigantic terrorist attack on the Laplace space station on the ceremony which they change the calendar. At minimum, massive propaganda is necessary to convince everyone that space is safe because paranoia is bound to happen. It's like if the first man on the Moon came back mangled & raped by space zombies. If you can't convince the civilian population (which has engineers too) that it's safe, they'd sooner revolt when policies pushing 90% of them to imminent death are implemented. The French had revolutions for less.> Refining them now that take time, we build suspension bridges because it's either impossible, unpractical, or far more costly (in manpower/time) than doing it with any other design.It's amazing how the wrong fears are put into place. You didn't even consider an advertising slogan that venturing into space gets resources so companies & countries would be willing to eat some cost if it means borderline winning capitalism by becoming the first viable asteroid mining company. The resources in the asteroid belt include tons of precious metals, water in a timeline where Zaku IIs still use liquid hydrogen as coolant (which can double as fuel) & sci-fi in general has tons of liquid hydrogen fuel. So I have little to no trust in you getting this right, which you didn't.The big deal about making the typical Island-3 Cylinders are manyfold. As before mentioned, the starting costs getting into space. In UC, early colonies like Moon Moon of the Bernal were problematic but they existed. By the time people are making most fo the colonies, the first few are already up & running therefore a lesser dependence on Earth materials, which would already be lessened by gathering on the Moon. The construction of the colonies themselves were again, mostly done in Universal Century canon in space with resources taken from the steroid belt.
>>23447442>Because Universal Century started with a gigantic terrorist attack on the Laplace space station on the ceremony which they change the calendar. At minimum, massive propaganda is necessary to convince everyone that space is safe because paranoia is bound to happen. It's like if the first man on the Moon came back mangled & raped by space zombies. If you can't convince the civilian population (which has engineers too) that it's safe, they'd sooner revolt when policies pushing 90% of them to imminent death are implemented. The French had revolutions for less.it was a lot easier the first few decades of the franchise before they invented that bullshit
>>23447442ContThe vast majority of space colonies (which include many different types like Side 3's closed ones & Shangri-La from ZZ) were made in space without any of the problems launching them into space from Earth. Not only is this a sci-fi future where most forcefully deported were practically given the directive "make this work or you die", if anything it'd be practically impossible & orders of magnitude more expensive to build the components on Earth.That's another point to expand on. Manufacturing on Earth has many obstacles to the point it can be argued going big in space is much easier than Earth. Earth's gravity sets its own restrictions. You ever weld stuff? On one hand, you may need a space suit in space. On the other hand, welding in freefall may need a special technique to avoid getting voids, but the surface tension of liquid metals is usually quite high so I am sure such details can be overcome. No need of gas shields or flux. Doubtlessly, we'd be able to make new alloys impossible on Earth. Much of Earth manufacturing also has to fit shipping containers while Unicorn shows asteroids are pulled from the belt & made into colonies. Moving objects in general would be significantly easier. We wouldn't need mega lifts & a component with a mass of thousands of tons could easily be held in place with minimal force and then welded into position."Refining them". My freaking ass. Space manufacturing will have its own downsides but if we had people on Earth with gravity magic? There would be tons of procedures far easier.
>>23447481ContSeriously, materials science would be revolutionized if infrastructure for space or moon-based manufacturing exists. Modern space stations not having much in artificial gravity is more because we want low gravity for scientific experiments. The shit we could do with low gravity. Structures that would collapse on themselves mid-construction would be feasible. We'd produce materials that are created with almost atomic precision, like carbon nanotubes, or stuff that's grown, like crystals, where gravity also complicates matters. Vacuum welding would be extremely interesting use, the absence of oxygen in a vacuum prevents oxidation during welding and there'd be less contaminates too. I'm just gushing over all the possibilities & all the manufacturing headaches we have here that wouldn't exist in space. This isn't to say it's all sunshine & rainbows but given artificial gravity hab-blocks exist in UC, you can have your cake & eat it. Something works well under gravity? Do it under artificial gravity. Something that can only be done in the vacuum of space? Do it there. This is all assuming we don't discover or invent new techniques too. The freaking possibilities man, I almost feel like Char complaining about human souls held down by Earth's gravity with all the nuisances we have on Earth.
>>23447502ContI don't even feel like going into the wrong in other parts. >>23447073>1) any asteroid material you haven't processed is not structurally stable, a nuke would create seismic waves breaking everything inside. Asteroids are actually kind of fragile.>2) a mining colony isn't built for comfort, it's a sacrifice.didn't even read shit other posters said about >>23446794>Regardless, you could pack a ton of asteroids together and use them for shielding. In near vacuum a nuke produces almost no shockwave and all radiation, and radiation level falls off very hard in proportion to the distance between your armour and the detonation point.already saying waves are minimal + already mentioning processing them as a shield, or the part where UC Gundam already ahs plenty of mining colonies & how not every mining colony is Shangri-La in poverty. Whole colonies in UC are made from asteroids pulled in & Axis has been mentioned several times here. It's not paradise but those asteroids have so many resources that Axis was actively mining itself to produce tons of MS & ships. In another franchise, mobile giant asteroid ships would be travelling the solar system, selling pieces of itself everywhere. It'd be like a train, getting lighter as it consumes coal as it goes. Realistically, on the outbreak of a sci-fi future where space is viable besides eccentric rich people like Elon Musk dabbling, there'd be a rush no different than America being colonized. It'll be rough to start like wagons & horses coming in but once people get a foothold, they'll build tracks & trains. They'll be coming for all those space resources just like American land grabs.
>>23447546I always wondered why this whole >Neo Zeon Axis mobile suits are too expensive to Mass produce!happened. Haman's people were still using ReGelgus and Gazas into the end. Materia costs should be meaningless. Maybe manufacturing time and skilled workers due to population but not the actual metals being smelted. Luna 2 was dragged from the Asteroid belt to build the Colonies. If big ass asteroids like that could build several colonies and still survive have enough material to be an actively mined Gundariam Alloy deposit and base, Haman functionally had an infinite resource cheat code. Her big problem is Axis doesn't have infinite manpower nor infinite pilots for their suits and it's not like people pop babies out at light speed besides Puru clones. Hypothetically, they can afford any overpriced weapon.
>>23416876Not having to deal with natural disasters like floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc. does sound appealing. Not sure that'd be enough for me to want to live in a space colony though.
>>23416876Can we get all our resources via nearby asteroids? How secure is the colony from radiation and other threats? How much inhabitable space?
>>23447074>You misunderstand.>-you need a contra-rotating MASS to neutralize the gyroscopic effect,>-it doesn't need to be another colony,>-it doesn't need to be parallel,>-making it dumb mass has other practical use, you can even make it your primary radiation-shield if you want.>So you could build an entire GRID of linked 3-island type colonies so long as the gyroscopic effects is neutralized overall.>Beside the 3-island kind is a fancy way of obtaining reflected-sunlight and a nice view. It's not efficient and a closed type can be big enough to have blue sky.This reeks of>I don't watch GundamThe closed types were unpopular in Gundam because the skies were unalike skies on earth to the point recent immigrants would be unhappy, resulting in the lion's share of colonies being open. >>23447442With how cutthroat Anaheim is. smaller colonies would need defenses just so competing corporations don't send asteroids your direction to kill progress and chalk it as an accident. They have lawyers who'd find ways to cover shit up and Anaheim was giving FF free Zulus and the Sinanju. I doubt anything besides military bases would be permitted heavy weapons that could stop anything a corporate douchebag trying to screw over other corporate douchebags by discreetly sending meteors their direction.
>>23447073>>23447074Somebody get both a physicist and a structural engineer over here. A rotational habitat will experience similar forces, but with an o'neill cylinder, with the amount of surface area inside, it's far more like hanging platform supported rails along the edges. A o'neill cylinder is filled with air and this means it's is not just like a suspension bridge, it's like a suspension bridge that is also a pressure vessel. A suspension bridge does not need to deal with the internal pressure like it's a can of air nor the amount of surface area nor deal with air pressure the same way as this can of air. Suspension bridges are most deucedly not firm - they can be be constructed firm, the strongest building materials at these dimensions are relatively yielding, even tearing themselves apart when wind is strong enough. That is not reliably inhabitable. You also overstate the amount of maintenance and if more durable materials would last longer especially if it's in an area difficult to replace or repair. You also overstate the effect of this thicker mass because the cylinder is mostly hollow by design anyway and imply adding mass will compromise it when other designs like the kalpana add layers anyway for structural stability or add support hulls. You talk about energy and expenses needed but by the time we can build o'neill cylinders, even as cheap as possible, the cost of power is assumed to be negligible because building a cylinder hab is so extensive that these extra costs are extra drops in a bucket. We would need nuclear fusion or some space based solar collectors just to make it possible in the first place so if energy's the problem, we wouldn't get off the ground. TL:DR The o'neill cylinder would face forces like a suspension bridge but also enough problems a suspension bridge doesn't. Air alone could mean tons per m^2. It's oversimplified. Also some of these alleged problems are small time if we could build an o'neill cylinder in the first place.
>>23444914I think gundam colonies are more durable than normal in the first place. A ton of these colony drops would do less damage than depicted because bits and pieces would burn up in the atmosphere This would cause environmental damage for sure because the energy doesn't poof disappear but the impact itself would be less than the shows depict. Just how many gundam colonies break apart during fall? They usually remain physically intact enough and not spilling all over the place in pieces. In real life it wouldn't be super efficient unless the colony itself is filled to the gills with explosives because if the colony is in orbit then it would need energy to break away then accelerate it to earth then it would lose kinetic energy to air resistance and breaking apart on the way down. Also when it hits it would need to be rigid so it's not like an airbag or car crumple zone extending the length of the collision. These colonies are probably mostly air and vacuum so it's the outer layers that must be super durable. Space colony drops are depicted as impact when they ought to be depicted as long lasting dust clouds and radiation if anything because gundam colonies use nuclear pulse engines. Char must've loaded axis with captured nukes + axis nuclear engines to irradiate everyone in his nuclear winter.
>>23447974That's Gundam for you.>Colony outer walls strong enough to survive a colony drop without burning up coming down completely before hitting the ground.>Also careful about using beams inside the colony because it might blow up if you shot the walls or if the enemy mobile suit blows up inside it.
>>23416876No, I would be in constant psychosis that a micrometeorite or something else could pierce the outer hull and kill everyone. Hell, I get nervous and scared just by THINKING about space, those giant windows would shatter my brain
>>23447974Island Iffish in Operation British did break up in Earth's atmosphere but yeah the point remains about how just splitting into 3 pieces would be phenomenally lucky if done for real. And yeah, lots of these space colonies are filled with air like a huge SpaceBalls canned air can so the total mass would be far smaller than if the whole thing was solid inside. Axis probably would've been far deadlier than most colony drops because of how much of it was still rock. The end caps I assume would be harder and might survive just because they're made solid to support both structurall and contain all those agriculture and manufacturing parts rather than open air for living. The weird one is ZZ's Dublin's drop because it remained relatively intact, hit the city, and didn't fall apart but needed a detonation. It's a miracle those tough walls didn't contain the whole explosion.
>>23447546>In another franchise, mobile giant asteroid ships would be travelling the solar system, selling pieces of itself everywhere. It'd be like a train, getting lighter as it consumes coal as it goes.That could be an interesting series. A colonized asteroid as the home which provides the minerals, water, and maybe fuel needed for travel and trade. Depending on the size of the asteroid and how long it would take to fully mine it, as well as location of other asteroids, colonizing a sufficiently big asteroid might be an interesting move. There's been all sorts of speculation on future colonizing the asteroid belt too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_asteroid_beltA travelling asteroid which visits other places, giving pieces of itself wherever it goes, would be an interesting story.
>>23416876If they are filled with pleasant and attractive people like they are in Gundam, then sure maybe. If they are filled with the spiteful goblins I have to interact with IRL then no, they can get shot into the sun alone
>>23417291If I knew you were in a colony, I'd gas it
>>23420226I wish we could just do this IRL...
>>23419977>colonize planet>it's not the exact same as earth>gravity is slightly different from earth's>in just a few years people who live there have severe medical issues relating to too much or too little gravity>over decades people start to change>over a couple degenerations people stop looking like normal people>over a few generations more they become weird goblin people or Slenderman looking ayyyys >eventually humanity has to ban colonizing other planets that aren't the exact same as earth because the mutants who live on Tau Lambda 7 are proclaiming independence from the human race and are started race riots whenever normal humans show up>eventually we just nuke all colonized planets as a quiet mercy for the godforsaken ogres who live on themYou want to live in a tailored space colony, trust me
>>23448211But humanity is so horny that we would deliberately seed worlds with life to become aliens to fuck those aliens.
>>23428384That is how Cast came to be in Phantasy Star.
>>23448211Couldn't reduced gravity be super efficient and easy on your back as long as you regularly exercise?I mean after reaching adulthood, having a baby raised in low-g can definitely result in some growth issues
>>23448211What a Lovecraftian approach to the divergence of humanity.
>>23448357Maybe we need nanomachines
>>23448357There's issues with how fluids move around in you at lower gravities. My understanding is it's an open question as to whether the human body will eventually adapt or exercises can fix it.
>>23447442>borderline winning capitalism by becoming the first viable asteroid mining companyTHIS.Nowadays, it's a meme because of difficulties getting the shit back to Earth but if it were possible? If it were viable? Water, hellium-3 for nuclear fusion, iron, nickel, gold, especially platinum, palladium, rhodium, just to name a few metals. People would spend whole careers developing new ways to extract them efficiently. If it were viable, this would be the gold rush of the future. There's no way big corporations would miss this. Asteroid 16 Psyche for example has multi quintillions estimated value in gold.
>>23447838I bet corps would gladly make their customers unnecessarily paranoid as shit so they can sell them extra security features. Longer construction with more expensive materials means a longer duration with more money in their pockets. Today's corporations already heavily advertise new phones or gizmos with legitimately better features but features well beyond the average consumer's use to the point the average buyer could've had a cheaper product and still the same use. They bought it more because it's expensive than the extra features come useful. Public Colony Corporation making extra expensive colonies to wring more money in the present, and maybe more money in the future charging higher rent fees or taxes, for living in alleged extra secure locations would be exactly that people do. The only rebuttal I can think of is they'd only say they're using more expensive materials and really cheap out but this risks leaks unless the construction teams are extra well paid to keep their lips shut. Especially if any of the hired builder hands are planning to live in the new colony. It'd be easier to have legitimate superior defenses sold as an extra bonus $ and minimize possible future liability lawsuits in the off chance those defenses get tested.
>>23447974>>23448026I don't know if the outer layers are heatproofed or coated in anything to survive the fall but the collision itself ought to crumple the colony anyway. Reminds me of that 40k>Rocks are not freearticle pointing put the logistics of finding, analyzing, accelerating, and ensuring the enemy doesn't deflect an asteroid used to Exterminatus a planet. Ghiren's idealized colony drop on Fed HQ would've needed tons of preparation ensuring that the colony survives the drop intact and precise rather than scattering like it did and hitting multiple unrelated parts,
>>23448844A lot of internal legwork too. These O'Neill designs aren't made to ever be in atmosphere or Earth's gravity well. It would likely implode during , if not before, hitting the ground. You'd need something for the heat of entry burning up mass, something keeping them together and hitting a precise target, all for what would be massive environmental damage more than the kinetic energy of the collision. Colony Drops would never become a real-life feasible tactic besides as a fear tactic, show or message.
People imagine space colonies as utopian independent states free from Earth oppression, but in reality they'd be hyper centrally planned hellholes where your shower would be on a timer.
>>23421284>We still don't know what happened to Side 5/Loum other than it being a battlefield that led to the colonies there If you go by MS IGLOO, Zeon fed the Federation false intel about using Side 5 for a 2nd colony drop in order to lure out their remaining fleets for Luna II into a decisive battle. We see the Federation fleet travel through the colony cluster in order to meet the Zeon fleet, where it was originally just ship to ship combat before Zeon sent in their mobile suits. Going from what we know about Loum, that would mean the Federation retreated and went through the colony cluster where it got destroyed in the cross fire.>>23421452>>23421957>>23422468I believe the big reason why Operation British is the most talked about part of the One Week Battle is the fact it's the only part we actually see for years. Plus the visual of the colony crashing into the earth wiping out a city.And the bibles have been bouncing around a bit, like they claim NBCs were used, but we only know about nukes and G3, not the biological weapon part. Unless i forgot, which is possible.
>>23447387Posturing won't make your arguments more correct, or even on topic.Even if UC is well above average, most of its setting is still disjointed SF tropes and that's what you are defending.Just listen to yourself: "but what if I let terrorists & space pirates have WMDs?"And it all break down in that the "fragile" colonies anon complain about are depicted as able to deal with exploding MS.It took ARMIES spamming nukes during the one-week-war to actually destroy space colonies.There's no reason -nor realistic ways- to make such gigantic colony 'nuke-resistant' for the same reasons the US gave up trying to make cities survive nuclear blast during the Cold War.>Retard. You didn't even address I did, contrarian dumbass,You clearly did not even read my post, you answer a strawman you imagined in your head.Must I spread it out for you?You want to build (fancy) space colonies in a reasonable timeframe.Availability of ore =/= availability of qualified manpower, industries, vehicles, energy, time...Here are the choices:a) cost & time efficient way of building comfy & SAFE ENOUGH colonies.b) cost & time wasting way of building LESS colonies in a futile attempt to lose less of them if a (secession) war go nuclear.THAT was the topic.There's no reason to plan for more than, say, Beirut explosion, and that's already what MS explosion are.Plus, if you followed the politics to its conclusion, you definitely do not make the colonies able to fight a nuclear war against Earth after giving them motive to do so.Don't bring up Laplace's destruction when it was done by secret factions within the Federation very leadership.Realistically, you wouldn't allow free-range spaceship that doesn't have paranoid-level safety, with AI refusing captain's orders not approved by 12 agencies.It takes efforts to have any form of stealth that don't also ruin a setting.
>>23447397Again, stop posturing when you argue against imaginary strawman>You don't build space habitats on a planet & shoot them into spaceNo shitYou think you are smart telling about "microwaved power" and "catapult on the Moon"?You are just repeating concepts that were simplified for mass medias, and many of those ideas turned no more practical than Nicolas Tesla Wardenclyffe tower. (btw, microwaved power should on principle go poorly with the basics of Minovsky jamming).Catapult on the moon? By Gundam tech level they should have Lunar elevators reaching all the way to point L1 as a prerequisite.I could school you on how more credible "space-dock" would not have spaceships, space-pod and EVA, wasting propellant all days, pointing blow-torch level thrusters at the station to have the "SF docking sequence", they would build a scaffold with robotic arms on rails.And let's not talk about heat radiators...O'neill's 3-island design itself wasn't imagined to be efficient or exist in an (economic) vacuum.Speaking of economic>the colonies were more self-sufficient than Earth>Earth's on life-supportDramatic overexaggerations since Earth built the colony, the colonies are said to still be reliant on organics from Earth.Treating colonies as a distinct economic sphere than the Federation is the hypothetical revolution FF wanted to trigger, not the actual status.This is the same mistake the usual space-libertarian make when he tries to defend how great his Martian far-west will be once the evil Earth elected government finish building their utopia so they can do secession.>>23447442As said previously, nothing justify making colonies able to resist a nuclear war.Especially since they were nuked because what they wanted to be destroyed was inside, probably the reason they were forced to destroy the colony to get it.Again, you don't even follow the political logic to its conclusion.Again, you are arguing against imaginary strawmen.
>>23447442>It's amazing how the wrong fears are put into place. You didn't even consider an advertising slogan that What's amazing is how much you wrote and supposedly read of my post, without, at any point, wondering if you misunderstood the topic. Listening to you, it's as if I said "3-island colonies will never ever be possible".Anon, I routinely defend "orbital-colonies with system-wide economic", against "self-sustaining Martian-colonies".>>23447481>without any of the problems launching them into space from EarthStill your strawman>>23447502No disagreement but it show you are arguing on something else entirely>>23447546>didn't even read shit other posters said about >>23446794Again: the DART experiment demonstrate that asteroid aren't one thick solid block, not even one with some powder on it.That's why we don't think we can just put gigantic thruster on them and get AXIS.You are literally trying to rationalize Gundam as "not fiction!">>23447838>The closed types were unpopular in GundamThat's Gundam's logic and not necessarily representative of the future.What you quoted was literally SOLELY about explaining that you do not need "2 parallel" colony.And what I describe don't even exclude the 3-island kind.I only expect anon to misunderstand even if he has to put extra effort into it, but I am NOT saying this justify Gundam's own take on the hypothetical 3-island concept, to not have a visible countra-rotating mass. It is an error among many others.As far I'm concerned the most credible scenario to build so many colonies would be a lunar elevator to mines or even refine asteroids, build the industries, built the colony themselves THERE fully aware you'll have to move them later.All in the name of it being more efficient than spreading everything which would require gigatons of propellant instead of using magnetic rails & arms.
>>23447937You anon got what I mean.But the air inside not a problem of mass, it's a problem because it's an enclosed medium that amplify a nuclear explosion.About the thickness, don't forget that you are talking of mass that's actively in rotation, suspended.If you really, really wanted separate protection, make a STATIC armored shell around the thinner rotating habitat.For the closed type obviously.The "alleged problems" was anon arguing O'neill's colony should be made extra trick to resist the nuclear missiles spam that's supposedly "killed half of mankind". Then it snowballed from here.See >>23447974 and >>23447994
>>23447937You anon got what I meant.But the air inside not a problem of mass, it's a problem because it's an enclosed medium that amplify a nuclear explosion.About the thickness, don't forget that you are talking of mass that's actively in rotation, suspended, that's most of the mass right here.If you want to put artificial mountain inside your colony, you'll likely make them hollow, but you'll still want to save on mass everywhere you can.Also apply if you intend to move the colony and do orbital correction, or even move the colony to a safe orbit in case of problem.If you really, really wanted separate protection, make a STATIC armored shell around the thinner rotating habitat.For the closed type, obviously.The "alleged problems" was anon arguing O'neill's colony should be made extra trick to resist the nuclear missiles spam that's supposedly "killed half of mankind". Then it snowballed from here.See >>23447974 and >>23447994 Gundam is full of inconsistencies.Yes it is VERY realistic by many standards. But it also have no sense of scale.The colony drop for example shouldn't have created a crater as big as it is often depicted to have.
>>23417050Every settlement or city we see in UC on Earth is destitute absolute poverty tier. Hell, Mirai (wife of a fucking O6 navy captain) lives in a one room apartment in a Hong Kong shanty town.
>>23449023>>23449028And you didn't get what I meant you goddamn moron. You're wasting posts in this thread postulating nonsense while making analogies that I've openly criticized as inaccurate because they miss vital factors. You're trying to compare them to suspension bridges because they experience similar forces but there's a monumental fuckload of other factors that make this analogy really, really oversimplified bad. I didn't reply to most of theirs because I didn't have glaring problems with theirs the same way I've heard exaggerating the hell out of these supposed problems. This whole thing started with complaining about the inconsistent durability of space o'neill cylinder colonies being threatened by weapons and explosions that should be a needle-sized attack on an object the size of a building. I chimed in to point out it's more likely that these colonies are more heavily defended in the first place, not disagreeing with unicorns terrorist attack being influential, because for colony drops to be remotely viable they need to survive atmospheric entry in the first place. I didn't citizens their other replies as needing a fact check by experts. Only yours. An o'neill cylinder altogether is an unrealistic hypothetical which we continue building models improving on. It's not today's end all be all model.
>>23449020Okay I've watched enough gundam to know you straight up didn't. For example you're saying microwave power shouldn't work with minovksy lower but the man with the theory who went to zeon and got working fusion reactors was born halfway into universal century and by that point the federation had decades at minimum where their energy came from microwaves from solar satellites. This highlights what gundam says about earth dying and the colonies becoming more and more self sufficient. Their #1 power source for the whole planet that they relied on before universal century existed is easily jammed by the most common minovsky anti-radar system that everyone and everyone's mother uses and the most common space nuclear fusion reactors you would find in everyone's mobile suit. And the hellium-3 necessary is extremely difficult to naturally find on earth therefore unless they want to rely on a system easily disrupted by any prankster with a ship, they're forced to rely on space for their energy. Gundam by sci-fi standards gives millions of different reasons for why earth is overmined, environmentally wrecked, and not even energy independent anymore. It's been pointed out several times that the material for the colonies, whatever design used, came from space. The colonies got their start from earth and now with the ball rolling, they need less earth as time goes on. >>23447397 is right about systems with difficult starts but smoother continued motion once it begins. It's like inertia. You're just endlessly repeating nonsense from several angles including gundam angle. I'm not wasting my time with your other blatant bad assumptions and crap about labor. You've already done badly in in your horribly oversimplified analogy you're still repeating like it isn't garbage.
>>23448011You may do better in a lunar crater city like van braun in zeta. It's got an artificial sky set to day and night and many layers to the city.
>>23448467Suffer not the nanomachina, Brudda.
>>23449019>And it all break down in that the "fragile" colonies anon complain about are depicted as able to deal with exploding MS.>It took ARMIES spamming nukes during the one-week-war to actually destroy space colonies.Did it have anything to do with missing because they've been shot down or because Minovsky Particles mean they're all dumb-fire? Were they bombarded and accurately struck head-on consistently? Were they Amuro's colony totaled by an exploding Zaku II?
>>23449029It's slowly changing, if environmentally still horrible, with rich and powerful making resorts with tax dollars. Gundam's unique in that most franchises have the rich run away from Earth and leave everyone to die rather than boot everyone else out.
>>23449020>simplified for mass medias, and many of those ideas turned no more practical than Nicolas Tesla Wardenclyffe towerThat's a gross oversimplification. It's more infeasible due to costs and maintenance. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2022/ph240/irgau1/NASA had a 2024 report saying microwave beaming wouldn't be feasible until at least the 2050s but not that it's impossible https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/otps-sbsp-report-final-tagged-approved-1-8-24-tagged-v2.pdfFrom a physics POV, Tesla's tower wouldn't have worked. Tesla had problems. His understanding of atomic theory was fundamentally different. It's a common saying that he didn't believe in electrons or radiation but it's more accurate to say he thought energy was transmitted through aether and that he doesn't believe in subatomic particles. The same man doubted the existence of radio waves and had an alternative theory to channel the energy through the Earth. It wouldn't have worked in theory because Tesla's understanding was flawed. Not out>Dramatic overexaggerations since Earth built the colony, the colonies are said to still be reliant on organics from Earth.Why? What's these organics needed? Imported grasses and plants for agriculture exist and colonies have thriving biospheres. If they wanted expansion, they can make Earth-dirt out of other kinds of regolith just fine. I don't suppose you mean animals?
>>23449020>You think you are smart telling about "microwaved power"You think you're up to date?https://www.techspot.com/news/108097-beaming-solar-power-space-closer-reality-after-breakthrough.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YVO7RWN5E
>>23449491Judging by>>23449498, that 2050 estimate might've been too pessimistic.
>>23449540It's occasionally the case for much of sci-fi. We have cases where we underestimate the rate of progress and depict sci-fi futures with occasional tech less advanced than now. Even smartphones are beyond much sci-fi half a century ago, capable of having live video calls with people across the planet in real-time.
>>23449020>You think you are smart telling about "microwaved power" and "catapult on the Moon"?I don't know how to break this to you but that's what UC Earth does. From https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11310>SOLAR POWER SATELLITE “HIGHLAND”: A power generation satellite that transmits solar energy to Earth. Although all artificial satellites were destroyed during the One Year War, they were restored after the war.This isn't some anon's hypothetical. In Episode 6 of Zeta, Char attacks a solar energy satellite as a diversion against the Titans. And on the same link>The Federation government constructed observatories and mining bases on the moon for helium-3 mining. Simultaneously, lunar minerals were excavated, and numerous lunar bases developed into lunar cities as part of space development.Thus, it's official canon that moon-based resources were harvested for space development, clearly meaning colonies. I don't know if they catapulted, rocketed, or used a giant slingshot but he isn't speaking hypothetical solutions. These are the official canon methods.
>>23449647Oh wait, other anon already posted that link. So the complainer just ignored his cite.
>>23449020Organics? Remember that scene from The Martian where Watney grows potatoes in Mars soil with his poop? It's not impossible but there'd be processing needed and while they may initially need things sourced from Earth, by the time they get an agricultural or industrial sector running, they can produce everything they need themselves and new colonies source from other colonies. >>23449491It would be interesting to see industries around crushing rock, putting earthworms or mushrooms and organic waste in it to process it, and so on. It'd be pricy but space colonies themselves aren't cheap. Dirt sales would be its own commodity.
>>23449686Funny, thing, most earthworms aren't native to Northern America because they were killed off by glacial activity and reintroduced by European settlers, starting in the 1600s. The Ice Age screwed them then settlers reintroduced them for enriching the soil.
>>23449491>>23449686>>23449707I'd add that if it's food then just hydroponics or some other farming methods that uses less soil. If you're creating soil for grass for scenery or wildlife then I suggest hydroponics anyway to generate plant matter or aquaphonics especially so the fish could be both a protein source and the bacteria fish-shit filled wastewater be used in producing a liquid solution for soil. Anaerobic bacteria especially grows exponentially. In fact, if you're going into space in some o'neill cylinder then wouldn't you specifically breed plants that survive better in the first place? You'd do bazillion experiments on earth and space stations or lunar cities in the first place to get plants that grow well there. With how fucked up uc earth is becoming environmentally, it's likely scientists will be creating plants that grow in crap soil anyway because the deteriorating environment.
>>23449725This begs the question what's the typical colony dweller's concept of various plants and animals. We already have a scene where Zeon guys go>It's a new Federation weapon!>No, it's just thunder and lightning.Because very few have ever experienced Earth weather before. Maybe the wildlife aesthetically looks similar but are actually extremely different on a DNA level. Maybe they're bred for some appearance or changed by their environment,
>>23449746probably just very limited in what they've seenirl I've seen tourists absolutely lose their shit over random things like a couple of love bugs joined at the ass "IT'S SOME SORT OF CREATURE!!!!" and they're from the same continent
>>23449725I think they're shown using hydroponics in Zeta. Environmental fields and food production are separate unless you're a Moon Moon hippie.
>>23449784>Moon Moon druggieFixed
>>23416876How's the atmosphere? The usual O neill design doesn't handle hot air rising well
>>23449775Were they in a black lagoon at the time?
>>23416876Only if the population is all white.
>>23449910>an entire colony of rapistsSounds extremely ethical and a beacon of moral virtue.
>>23416876I'd choose one of PLANT instead of UC if it means I get coordinator pussybut I'd likely be bullied to death for not being genetically enhanced.
>>23449725>>23449746For trees or plants for materials, this might sound weird but I recommend bamboo or some modified species. When bamboo grows, it freaking grows super fast. If it's random biomass, yeah just get some bacteria. But if it's organic material that's solid to the point you can make shelter from it? Bamboo is fast as fuck. Forests would come faster if the colony environment supports them.
>>23449686>Dirt sales would be its own commodity.>>23449707>earthworms>>23449725>Anaerobic bacteria>>23450245>If it's random biomass, yeah just get some bacteria.This begs the question if asteroid mining could provide the raw materials they need to process into soil. I mean, not every asteroid is going to be a goldmine. Carbonaceous asteroids are filled with carbon, water, phosphorus, stuff that can be processed into organic material. It's not the same as getting enough platinum to buy your own planet but it's been proposed https://www.nasa.gov/general/making-soil-for-space-habitats-by-seeding-asteroids-with-fungi/ Asteroids that aren't high in valuable minerals can still be high in organic or organic-to-be materials that another firm can process into valuable soil for colonies.Honestly, I'm wondering why so many UC rich people have Earth to themselves. Do they rebuild parts of their land with imported space resources and not just resorts? In other timelines like CE, there's the Sahaku family of Orb with their own. There's rich people owning whole empires like the Crossbone Vanguard but theoretically, sufficiently rich people could order a colony constructed exactly to their tastes.
>>23449941He didn't say indiansxx448
>>23450396I didn't know Indians committed acts of heroism like rape. Are they truly such fine people?
>>23421749You're as bad as the Xenoshitter.
>>23449019>You want to build (fancy) space colonies in a reasonable timeframe.What's reasonable when you're building giant habitats that need so much infrastructure that you'd need whole industries that don't exist irl to support the creation of? WHat stupid shit are you writing? >w-what if l-let spacNobody's LETTING anyone. It's an unavoidable thing that space is vast and someone can be building weapons in an advanced future where nuclear fusion reactors can be fit into every Zaku II and anyone with a space ship can push an asteroid some direction or allah ackbar ram with their ship. Anyone can start a war or military dictatorship wih the right weapons. The fuck is this assumption that there's just peace? Like, I'm reading your previous ones too. Everything else sucks dick too. >muh colony can't st-standGerard K. O'Neill imagined a 4-5 mile diameter, 20 miles long giant cylinder. Just how much mass do you think it would take to make a difference? If you read his paper, here btw https://nss.org/the-colonization-of-space-gerard-k-o-neill-physics-today-1974/, you'd know he wanted aluminum reinforced by steel cables. Do you think materials science wouldn't advance? If carbon nanotubes or bits of graphene was used, it could be orders of magnitude stronger. Graphene is more brittle but aluminum-graphene composites can be well over 50% stronger for a puny % mass increase. Hell, aluminum-graphene composites can have a slightly lower density too. Just sign a deal for some materials and next time the colony maintenance does repairs have them use better materials. Like just read>About the thickness, don't forget that you are talking of mass that's actively in rotation, suspended.Do you have a sense of scale? What mass increase do you think any of other anon suggestions would make? Space age materials which would be several times superior to the proposed models in strength and would allow for similar mass at far stronger same size structure but can't stand more mass
>>23449910Come on anon I don't bite, let me be your space neighbor. I'll only keep you up all night blasting Vocaloid's, promise. :3
>>23420809>"half of mankind died in the first part of the war">>23422468>No one would care about Pearl Harbor if prior to it the Japanese had somehow destroyed half of US harbor the week before.>>23449023>resist the nuclear missiles spam that's supposedly "killed half of mankind".Where is some of this coming from? I found Ghiren's Greed showing Zeon gassing colonies in preparation for Operation British. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxYYY_ob5pw but that's a video game centered around alternative what-ifs, not Tomino himself or some guidebook. I especially didn't see anything about tons of nukes used. The goal was to secure a good enough colony for dropping so killing the inhabitants with minimal harm to the colony itself is key. From what I can tell, Zeon was gassing the shit out of defenseless colonies until the body count added up. Basically shooting fish in a barrel with gas.>>23450665Also, it'd be stupid to assume nobody can find uranium in space. Not much in dense quantities but modern nukes can use around 7 to 16 kg of uranium. We haven't found any meteors with uranium not in the "who gives a fuck" amounts but there's always the one in a million. But I bet Zeon used fusion bombs because Trenov Minovsky was chased out of the conventional physicist community and found his way to Side 3. Maybe solar terrorist would be a major thing though. The Laplace terrorist act came from a solar-based weapon.
>>23450711>And so, in merely 40 hours of fighting, three Sides and 2.8 billion lives were lost forever.Okay, so 2.8 billion from the One Week Battle, but the total human population before the OYW was about 11.3 billion. So to fit with all those before posts, after the first 40 hours the death toll continued into over 5 billion which is nearly double? Or the first part of the OYW counts other conflicts which all added up to half of 11.3 billion?
>>23450716This all came from mixed up and mistranslated notes everywhere, retcons and inconsistencies.Back when Gundam was Gunboy, Tomino's setting plans https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamsetting.html had many details not found in 0079.>Universal Century 0078. An era in which huge artificial satellites float around the Earth, and almost ten billion people already make their homes in space. One of these space colonies, calling itself the Principality of Zeon, has raised the flag of rebellion against the Earth Federation.>The Principality carried out two waves of unilateral attacks, one known as the Three Day Battle and the other as the Battle of Loum. In these two battles, humanity lost almost fifty percent of its population, and many space colonies were destroyed. Zeon and the Federation had also suffered severe damage to their forces, and with the balance of power deadlocked the fighting turned into guerilla warfare. Meanwhile, no avenue to peace could be seen between the two nations.had ~10 billion humans lived in space. Then two big battles cost almost half the total human population. This means give or take slightly below 5 billion.In Gundam Century from 1981, it entertained the idea of the Feds indiscriminately nuking which nible mobile suits dodged. The vast majority of OYW battles were not nukes everywhere but the Battle of Loum had nukes. How many nukes, which side, and how, are all retconned constantly with each new version like The Origin doing another take. But the relevance here is different versions have varying amounts of civilian targets intentionally blasted in the crossfire. Depending on what source you read, including tons of fan translated ones and even more untranslated versions, more civilians got nuked.
>>23450711Most of these databooks are ancient and many details are obsolete. I mean, obviously the lore has changed over the last 45 years and not all the little details line up, but it was always a thing in the lore that the beginning of the OYW was a nuclear shit-flinging that the likes of humanity had never seen before, that resulted in the Antarctic treaty specifically forbidding nukes. However, simultaneously it is also a frustrating thing that most Gundam animations that depicts the early stages of the OYW like MS Igloo or the Origin movies also shy away from depicting exchanges of nuclear missiles to the point that you don't see any.. at all.. despite what the written lore says in many databooks.. some of which were written by the staff who also worked on 0079.https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamsetting.html>The use of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, dreaded since ancient times, came to pass in the Three Day Battle and the Battle of Loum. Due to these massacres, humanity proved itself capable of total suicide.>(Nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons are widely used.)https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamcentury.html>The Zeon forces compensated for this numerical disadvantage through the effective use of mobile suits and nuclear weapons, dealing a devastating blow to the Federation Forces fleet.>... At this point many of the mobile suit's main weapons, such as bazookas and machine guns, used nuclear warheads.https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/entertainmentbible01.html>Simultaneously with this unilateral declaration of war, the Principality of Zeon forces performed surprise attacks on Sides 1, 2, and 4. 3 billion people were slaughtered with nuclear and BC weapons.https://www.gundamunofficial.com/production/firstgundam.html[0079 opening visuals of the colony blowing up]>According to Tomino's storyboards, and the final recording script, the space colony here is surrounded by nuclear explosions.
>>23450730I forgot to add, Gundam Century said Operation British took about 320 million from the initial damage then environmental damage took about 2.8 billion. So 2.8 billion from spacenoids suffering from Zeon gassing them to drop their colonies, then Zeon's colony drops taking at minimum 2.5 billion more. At minimum, 5.3 billion in an overall 11~ billion population. Fucking Zeon.Also, Zeon civilians themselves had it easy because Zeon didn't gas their own then drop their own. According to https://www.gundam-the-origin.net/world/kouza03.htmlthe Zeon-style or Munzo colonies were cheaper, easier to make and can house roughly twice the number of people but had inherent discomforts making Side 4 and onward colonies do open style. It looks like the Feds weren't so heartless that they'd force everyone into this style but let them have more expensive colonies even if it means higher costs and lower total population forced into them per colony.
>WE ZEON REPRESENT SPACENOIDS>WE ALSO KILL MORE SPACENOIDS THAN EARTHNOIDS WE KILLED THE SPACENOIDS TO KILL
>>23450747Zeon's military also had it relatively easy. Zeon became outstretched and the Federation plan was a spearhead attack to cut off their leadership which worked. Even A Baoa Qu wasn't the total summation of either side's forces but the forces they had with them. This is part of why there's Zeon Remnants EVERYWHERE. Their leadership were sucker punched but there's enough randos everywhere to join Delaz, Axis, AEUG, Char, those random Unicorn remnants in OYW mechs, Mars Zeon, Jupiter Zeon because that's apparently a thing, etc.You know what'd be funny? If you could put all these different Zeons and their different interpretations on leadership and Zeon philosophy in a room and let them beat the shit out of each other for everyone else's amusement.
>>23450711>>23450716>>23450742>>23450747I say gassing makes more sense because if the goal was to get colonies that would be effective for dropping, you wouldn't want pointless destruction on your weapons. Colonies themselves are also valuable for living, for looting resources, etc.Also if life sucks in Side 3 Zeon colonies then captured colonies can be resettled once they un-fuck the air and remove the corpses, maybe use them as fertilizer or biomass if they're not too contaminated. Zeon's supposed to be a combination of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan therefore land grabs and treating your enemies somewhere between contempt and living resources fits them.
>>23420809Zeon poisoned more than a single space colony. They systematically gassed every colony they came across in order to wipe out the Federation's potential recruitment pool. It wasn't a single colony drop that killed everyone. THEN they dropped the colonies they gassed.
no space is not meant for hoomans its for robots
>>23422933>Like there's ongoing stories of Japanese tea producers struggling with potential shortages because of rapidly increased demands of matcha from Western yuppies.Pardon my off-topic question but how bad is it?
>>23417050If governments that may make those are sensible, then only military, scientists and actual active elites should take priority. Wealthy and politically powerful do not belong on such machinery.Unless space colonies are sufficiently proliferated that life on them is normal, it's gross misuse of resources to allow anyone but experts, and maybe an occasional eccentric with direct stakes in the colony.
>>23449941>>23450430And in only two posts, the indian demonstrates why nobody would want to live on a space colony with him.
>>23451055>If governments that may make those are sensible, then only military, scientists and actual active elites should take priority. Wealthy and politically powerful do not belong on such machinery.That's what Seed did, the colonies were mostly research and development centers for science and manufacturing, not a mass emigration project.>Unless space colonies are sufficiently proliferated that life on them is normal, it's gross misuse of resources to allow anyone but experts, and maybe an occasional eccentric with direct stakes in the colony.That's the thing in UC, they're supposed to be a normal recreation of life on Earth in a middle-class environment. We've never seen homeless camps or shantytowns inside UC colonies as far as I can remember. Even Sweetwater, described as a makeshift hybrid colony that was haphazardly constructed to quickly house refugees, doesn't look bad at all on the inside. So why is there a movement for spacenoid independence? It's not bad living conditions since they sure as hell haven't highlighted any. Even if you assume there's a token number of impoverished citizens in each colony, it's not like those people are shown to be the main supporters of Contolism. Maybe it could be a feeling of lack of representation? Poor treatment? Most of the spacenoid independence rhetoric mainly seems to be "we're not on Earth so I don't want to be ruled by Earth" which is more or less one of the pillars of Contolism.
>>23451094Power is power, having a power base under someone elses' rule can make some covet it.And since it's a space station with all the infrastructure, naturally the people on it, a reasonably isolated place with reasonably high environmental pressure forcing people into practical competence and some amount of at least pragmatic integrity?One can use it to make actual polities well beyond its immediate area.It's a dream for any rebellious throne pretender if you think about it, a stationary colony ship in all but name.
>>23430293Mt Fuji would become an islandKino
>>23450768>we beheaded the enemy leadership hurray>wait why are there so many insurgentssometimes it's better to have a more "honest" war and decisively beat the enemy.If they'd just waited and out produced Zeon into dust, leveraging their superior r&d, industry and manpower pools, there would be no more wars in the future
>>23449870>still no Jungle Cruise Of The Black Lagoon ride;_;
>>23451182It may not work given the circumstances. And they already destroyed billions of lives. Human population by the end may be nothing. Another big issue is space is vast. A random group of Neo Nazis or those Japanese soldiers unaware WWII ended decades ago are multiplied many times over and there are lost colonies and more. Axis alone managed lots for their population size with disproportionatly big fleets from mining their own home. Londo Bell in CCA straight up wasn't able to monitor or police whole Sides and part of placing officers everywhere before the OYW was outwardly because of protection but it was also an attempt to monitor in a setting where only Newtype powers can do any form of FTL communication. Point being, there can be people building rebel fleets in bumbfuck nowhere or a giant cannon on Mars and nobody can monitor everything.Also, the Feds had many bad choices creating more rebels like what led to Mafty then martyring Hathaway caused more.
>>23451088Antirapism is very degenerate. Unless Indians rape, they're not moral enough to live with.
>>23451094>>23451116It's a combination of extreme asshurt and power but also authority and even taxes. Like Zeon was already independent in many ways before the OYW and they're still asshurt. So many Zeon remnants didn't need Earth and could've done a Judau and flew away. Axis wasn't forced to come back for some earth-only resources, and Zeon remnants have survived decades after the OYW. Past /m/ threads pointed out that Scirocco and Jupiter took until Jupiter Empire to act care to to attack besides one guy in the Titans making power grabs.But the Fed were taxing colonies that belonged to them and these taxes went into luxury rather than redevelopment or anything beneficial to the colonies themselves. Hathaway didn't overnight go>If go full Char sympathizer, another Quess will arrive and fall on my dick.it included legit gripes with management which turned him to armed resistance.
>>23451324All I'm saying is that they can spend time boxing Zeon in and decisively dismantling their war machine around the time of ABQ Ending the war there enabled numerous fleets to run away and so on. The spacenoids didn't have their spirit broken in a fundamental way: the question of federation hegemony wasn't answered in a satisfying way
>>23451400They tried but it didn't work out
Wow, I really fucked up a copypaste up there.>>23449395I respect you don't go into quote hell.Summing it up:First, I never argued O'neill cylinder are unfeasible, they are just the fancy kind of colony.Of course they would be stronger than a "mere bridge", but nowhere close to the level needed to survive nukes unless (another) anon start bargaining to only count "accidental nuking outside". That or we use vastly more conservative numbers for the one-week-war.Which is where the bridge comparison came up. A rotating colony isn't passively stable, needing constant maintenance to not break apart from material fatigue & vibration.We seem to agree a colony would break apart during reentry, which is peanut compared to nuclear attacks.Anon argued that politics would justify making them extra tougher, I nuked that argument down, they had no reasons to design for more than efficiency & environmental danger. They even had more reasons to go cheap...Anon went on a rant about the mineral provenance, it was irrelevant, if we want such colony to survive nuke spam, we need to put more effort or abandon the O'neill design, more effort require more logistic, meaning less colonies...Talking "environmental danger": Asteroids capable of say Beirut-like explosion have no more probability to hit a space colony than Earth's cities right now, the smaller stuff that burn in the atmosphere would cause no problem to UC-tech level. Radiation shielding don't require any extra thickness at that scale.Talking "nuke spam": Even with "terrorist with nuke" as a start, this is NOT a problem you solve by making colony nuke-resistant, and as I said, against a military force trying to make stuff inside safe from nuke would only ensure a need to destroy the colony to take it out.The blastwave would flatten the inside, the heat would remain in the metal, the atmosphere, the heat would weaken the structure enough for cascade failure...
>>23449434First, that's a gross exaggeration of what I actually said.I just said "(btw, microwaved power should on principle go poorly with the basics of Minovsky jamming)" and that would still be true.YOU are the one jumping in your mind that it meant "lol instant planetary blackout death to microwave power".To me, the sheer SCALE of the system, plus inevitable redundancy, would make it impossible to be "easily disrupt by any prankster".And it's ironic you talk about that as Spain did have a nationwide blackout.But military bases would -obviously- want systems that cannot be easily sabotaged/attacked by enemies.>hellium-3You pretend to know soooo much more about gundam and yet you don't mention the Jupiter Energy fleet, launched in 2026 AD?UC had nuclear fusion before, it was just not the "radiation free" kind that SF like, which is where Minovsky reactor come in.Fusion energy is so ridiculously cost-efficient that it would easily make microwaved power economically irrelevant, just from transmission loss, and I'm assuming it "just work" without environmental concern greater than fusion reactor.I shouldn't have to tell you that Gundam is incredibly inconsistent with scales and numbers, like the colony drop crater, so "microwaved power" is just technobabble we just accept as a flavor for this setting.>material for the coloniesYou clearly didn't read my post and just stupidly followed the other anon ranting about something irrelevant in the context of our discussion.>and crap about labor.Again, you didn't follow the discussion and are just shit flinging to make yourself look good.Only thing I'd expect from you are excuses.
>>23449450Look up the Antarctic treaty, by the start of MSG dedicated nuclear weapon were already forbidden.Mobile Suit explosion are far weaker and were excluded.All missiles in UC aren't dumb-fire, they have wire guided ones and the cruising one are still fully capable of hitting precise target as long as they are static. If the electronic of MS can work, that's more than enough to nuke military installation inside colonies.It would also be easy to make a rather small nuke capable of destroying a colony in one shot. They are not that big.
>>23449491>It's more infeasible due to costs and maintenance. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2022/ph240/irgau1/No disagreement, It may not look like it but I try to keep my post short. So yes, impractical, there's also conversion loss... I let anon google it by himself.And yes, Nicolas Tesla's tower was obviously flawed for many reasons or we would already have seen equivalent by then. I blame Edison's sorcery.>What's these organics needed?Farmable soil on Earth are the result of millions of years of water, plant and insects toiling it for millions of years. While I do not doubt a second we will eventually genetically engineer a way around that, genetic is among the most difficult science there is, most of what we do today is just tweaking things to maximize things. Then there's eating, and there's covering 100% of what human need and not discovering decade later your population isn't lacking X or Y.I remember Phosphorus being mentioned as critical for farming.I can't find which source mentioned these trivia, but I took for granted that UC still cannot perfectly replicate a biosphere and that's why colonies stick around Earth.The conflict started with Side 3 declaring independence and the Federation trying to starve them, without success obviously but that can also be because there's a way to get around those sanctions, the Federation is corrupt after all.Then again, maybe we are guessing the future wrong and by the time we have space colonies, we could just ask an AI to design a Dragon to grow in a Bioprinter.>>23449686>The MartianNice taste anon, still the movie was about the sheer complexity of it and you can easily find articles about how optimistic it is, we still have trouble farming on Earth. I've also heard about a closed biosphere experiment that completely failed.Anyway, the real question is whether UC possess the technology for absolute 100% self-sufficiency in every inscrutable aspect.As far I know the answer was no.
>>23449498>You think you're up to date?Is nuclear fusion still 20 years ahead? You'll forgive me if I remain skeptical, you can have a long gap between prototype, first commercial use, assuming it does become profitable. No doubt we will have plenty of other use for beamed microwave energy, I except a lot of energy weapons to appear.>>23449647>I don't know how to break this to you butI don't know how to break this to you but you didn't read my post, or you missed my implied SARCASM because of Poe's law and the context around that post.This isn't just about what gundam does, it about all hypothetical.Gundam itself only depict a future depending on what the creators know, or want.Read my post, I said "By Gundam tech level they should have Lunar elevators reaching all the way to point L1 as a prerequisite."Emphasis on "should". And the reason is because a Lunar elevator would be easily doable for them, and vastly more efficient than a catapult which was imagined for a setting with far smaller ambition.Plenty of science fictions does the mistakes of using technological solution that aren't up to the logistic needed by the setting.To take a silly example, it would be like having mankind build a Mars colony, yet somehow still portrayed as using rockets with 3 expendable stage to put a misery capsule in orbit.
>>23450665>What's reasonable when [fiction]By that retarded logic, why not just build billions of space colony for every single habitant, since you imply that modifying a design doesn't matter?>Nobody's LETTING anyone. It's an unavoidable thing that [fiction]By that retarded logic, why aren't you prepared for a total nuclear war with terrorists "unavoidably" bringing nuclear bomb in the middle of every single city? O'Neill colonies are barely the size of a big city. Once you get into nuclear weapons that's quite fragile.>muh colony can't st-standFunny how you didn't finish that phrase.Did you even remember what's the topic? No, I bet you didn't even care.O'Neill didn't plan his colonies to be casually resisting a nukes spam like the one-week-war, even if you bargained to exclude any scenario where nukes explode inside, breach from outside to inside, or damage the spindle far beyond preparation, causing a cascade failure.>Do you have a sense of scale?Do you? Volume and mass would increase following cube law for any volume you need want to up-armor compared to the original design.Do you understand "form follow function"? The function is being a space colony, not surviving a nuclear war.>Space age materialsWe have material far superior to anything available in the middle-age and yet we don't build every house to resist nukes or even artillery.And as said in my previous posts that you clearly didn't read, there's no reason economical or political to give them special treatment.Also,>would be several times superior to the proposed models in strength and would allow for similar mass at far strongerAll that mean is that they would use build it cheaper and lighter to a LOT of money to be used for more space colonies.
>>23450711Other anon answered you about the massacre, you'll also want to search for the systematic gassing mentioned by other anon.Free to you to retcon those numbers into more believable ones. IMO we must recognize the silliness, but retcon is better for the health of a franchise.There's a story of a kid who almost managed to make nuclear breeder reactor by himself using nothing but commercially available component.https://allthatsinteresting.com/david-hahnIt does take a lot more than having uranium to build even a fisssion bomb, as recent news should tell have told you.And the US gave up long ago building "nuke proof" cities.Laplace terrorist act was done on what should have been the most monitored place of the Federation, involving a conspiracy within the Federation leadership.Believe it or not, I suspect that flying your own private nuclear-powered spaceship will require you to fill up paperwork like a flight plan, and it would have attracted attention to change your spaceship trajectory in a way that just happened to intersect Laplace long enough to accidentally drop a stealthy ball of metal cooled at 1°K to get trough detection.It is futile to prepare for every single crazy scenario that could happen. We are barely even prepared for a war and unlike UC there's still competing countries.
You know, public sci journalism folks say fusion is comparatively limitless energy source, but how long would fuel sources last on space civilizations scale?Advance in tech and increase in power generation appear to increase amounts of matter and energy consumed. Assuming ubiquitous usage and steady growth of all systems, how fast would use of fusion on massive scales burn out easily accessible types of fuel?
>>23451829>>23451831>>23451838>>23451854>>23451864>>23451867>>23451870Just shut up already, you've been spewing so much wrong it's not even funny. I don't have the time nor patience to go through all of it but >>23447397>You've obviously never worked in any business or system where the initial first step is the hardest but while not smooth sailings, you're much more stable once you've got your foothold.Summarizes everything you've been saying, coupled with having no though towards human paranoia, and woefully out of date with modern science and Gundam both. You don't have a frame of reference. Just for a handful, you're saying it takes millions of years of toil. That's irrelevant. It took evolution tons of time to develop the means used. Just read>https://www.discovermagazine.com/fungi-could-make-soil-from-asteroids-and-homes-on-mars-43519>The researchers provided the mushroom with an additional food source to get it started, and sure enough, before long it successfully colonized the simulated regolith. The results are still preliminary, but they’re promising; Shevtsov suspects that — with the help of the oyster mushroom — scientists could grow plants in the regolith within one to three years.Preliminary but one to three years is expected explicitly from material obtained from an asteroid. Not every asteroid is bound to have the same properties as theirs but you're throwing a lot of hot air with how nature did it when nature didn't start off with both the tools and intent we do now. It's the equivalent of getting an untrained person with no engineering knowledge, some rocks and trying to get them to hit a far target they don't know, from where they're standing, waiting millions of years for this guy to recreate modern engineering, and someone with a sufficiently long ranged gun with scope, directions where the target is, and enough funding for their ammo needs. Second man would hit the target and go home in less than year.
>Look up the Antarctic treatyIs one of the most retarded ones. Maybe this isn't one illiterate but two.>>23449019 and >>23449450 talked about the One Week Battle. The Atlantic Treaty happened as a direct consequence of the One Week Battle. What is>It took ARMIES spamming nukes during the one-week-war to actually destroy space coloniesAnd a treaty that happened after supposed to mean? And the inhabitants of this thread already cited enough (partially retconned) sources about biological weapons. Even the one source only specifying only nukes also only talked about the Federation fleethttps://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamcentury.html>The Zeon forces compensated for this numerical disadvantage through the effective use of mobile suits and nuclear weapons, dealing a devastating blow to the Federation Forces fleet.Thus this underlying assumption that the lion's share of the killing was from nukes against ships or even colonies rather than gassing civilians because they were wanted colonies to drop, rather than creating space debris, is a very uncertain assumption. The anons should've called BS on that loaded statement from the start.
>>23452051It's not like the treaty was followed well anyway. M'Quve didn't care and in spirit, both sides were employing solar lasers and colony lasers too. They got crap deadlier than a dozen Tzar bombs both.
>>23451831>>hellium-3>You pretend to know soooo much more about gundam and yet you don't mention the Jupiter Energy fleet, launched in 2026 AD?>UC had nuclear fusion before, it was just not the "radiation free" kind that SF like, which is where Minovsky reactor come in.NTA but you're not telling the full story. Hydrogen fuel and methane were among them. It's not like you're saying. You're just assuming much of the extracted fuel happens to be hellium-3 and also for fuel specifically rather than research. It's a rare isotope on Earth. And if they did get it right, why the hell would they rely so much on solar energy? At very best, they must've made straight up bad ones which can't do the work of their solar gatherers enough to displace them as the primary energy source. Which is pretty bad if you ask me for reasons below.>>23451978Nuclear fusion creates much more energy than fission. I'm talking several times over. I don't know how much energy space civilizations each use but then again I don't know if they use tritium breeders or some magic way to replicate the p-p chain. Their methods determine how long fuel lasts but as a general case, there is enough helium 3 to last us for around 200 years to 10,000 years depending on estimate if we magically extracted the entire surface of the Moon. And Jupiter has much more than the moon. If you ask me, my bet is more towards tritium breeders and D-T fusion which doesn't use hellium 3. Most sci-fi universes probably use that. As for how long those supplies last? For every 6400-6500 regular hydrogen atoms, there's a deuterium atom which is still a lot given how much hydrogen we have.>>23452051I think he's trying to say it was so deadly that a treaty was signed after and that MS explosions are much weaker but that's a meaningless statement. I don't know his point either.>>23449450was responding to how much difficulty it'd take to nuke colonies to explosion given defenses in the first place.
>>23451854I don't know where this is coming from. There's been research dating 40 years back about using Lichens to work on Martian soil. This research continues into the present with papers like https://www.researchgate.net/publication/357189364_The_Potential_of_Pioneer_Lichens_in_Terraforming_MarsAsteroids would have toxic hydrocarbons but why bring up millions of years of evolution? Genetics are a difficult science but humans create new GMOs by the day. "Tweaking" is all we need. Reading through your past replies, you have an oddly low faith in modern science discoveries. We already have studies like https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/ac74c9 about the potential for asteroids regiloid to be used as farm soil and while that study shows just using them as-is doesn't make good results, it brings up the potential to process them first or use the Three Sisters to fix the soil first. Speaking of low faith, what's that in >>23451864 where you went on about prototype and commercial use? The replies you replied to mentioned feasibility in 2050 then a major Japanese breakthrough. Reading the articles and their connected ones and googling names, Reflect Orbital already has secured $20 millions in funding for their 2026 launch. Which is beside the point because their whole point is you're trying to equate actively funded research and development with projected future use within this century to Tesla's system which fundamentally goes against physics. This was all in response to someone pointing out what the Gundam universe actually does so what's this badly informed tangent about in the first place?
>>23452151except this "decades of study" is ignorant of the stuff from recent mars missions which indicates that martian soil is full of chemicals that disolve in wates such that it would produce ultra-strong bleach, leaving bacterial growth - much less plant growth- completely non-viable
>>23452171>edit: "dissolve in water"
>>23451978I was about to mention what type of nuclear fusion is employed in the first place but>>23452098 beat me to the punch. If Gundam-style Minovsky Fusion works>https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8700>Jupiter is a distant planet, some 800-million kilometers from Earth. However, the inexhaustible supply of Helium-3 and deuterium was still quite appealing, even despite the distance.In real life, Jupiter has about 100 parts per million in its atmosphere, and Jupiter's total mass is 1.899 x 10^27 kg, so about 1.899 x 10^23 kg. Not counting energy costs extracting and transporting. In the event they ever run out of Jupiter, we'd have Saturn and Uranus too but that would be dangerous. I second other anon in that D-T Fusion would be the real-life way and likely what most fictional universes with fusion will use. I bet if UC Gundam ever starts running out, there'd be immediate research into other ways to make fusion energy.
>>23452171And this matters why? I know what perchlorates are. You can process much of this too.
>>23452027>>23452051I think he's got a problem. He's trying to imply sarcasm on an anonymous image board without tone. More likely he can't admit being wrong. I don't want to (You) his walls of text so I'm replying to you instead.
>>23452179You can just wash that shit out honestly. Other guy doesn't know that?
>>23452188Right. That's what we do here. Perchlorates tend to be very soluble. Where we get or what to do with the water? I dunno but it's doable.
>>23452189>Where we get or what to do with the water?Continue processing it. Make oxygen from it.
>>23452189Water would be recycled anyway, it's doubtful anyone would embark on a big Mars mission without more than sufficient amounts even knowing the difficulty transporting. Take some of that water, if the >ultra-strong bleachis too strong then dilute the hell out of it. If processed right, you get more water from the result so it'd be a net gain + recycled old water. Don't have any Sodium Thiosulfate on ready to safely neutralize it? Just dissolve it. Or use lots of UV light and heat to break it down. Bleach containers aren't transparent for good reason. It won't be a cakewalk but anyone heading to Mars ought to be prepared and have the means to purify.
>>23452189>>23452202>>23452223Nah, we make rocket fuel from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwD0a_VdS_4
>>23452250>My first thought is if could lite it on fire.That's Dwarf Fortress thinking right there.
>>23452263Humanity didn't survive on sanity alone. We were the ones who experimented with fire even when other animals ran.
>>23452250>lunar regolith can be rocket fuel>martian regolith has its ingredients as well
>>23416876Does it replicate earth environments or is it mechanical looking inside? City or country style? Is it mining asteroids it's attached to like Heliopolis or where're the resources coming from?
>>23452266>>23452282If we ever meet space aliens, would we be seen as resourceful or crazy pyromaniacs?
>>23451831>Fusion energy is so ridiculously cost-efficient that it would easily make microwaved power economically irrelevant, just from transmission loss, and I'm assuming it "just work" without environmental concern greater than fusion reactor.Which is why Minovsky reactors are such a big deal. Do we hear about any of them besides Minovsky? >muh energy fleetMinovksy reactors didn't just poof into existence without research. Could've been that. The closest source I could find for pre-Minovsky fusion being a thing is>The mega particle cannon, meanwhile, was an application of Minovsky particle fusion technology which had a smaller energy loss than existing laser cannons. Its lower production of waste heat also made it capable of rapid fire despite the poor cooling efficiency of space. Naturally, it used a powerful thermonuclear reactor as its energy source.revealing preexisting lasers but it specifically said lasers while Gundam beams are particle cannons. It also didn't say how they're powered. I'm still looking for an explicit source. BRB
>>23452303Back now, the closest thing I've found is the wiki and this picture from MS ERA 0099 that was already posted saying Hellium-3 is propelant. Nothing about nuclear fusion. I'll look further
>>23452330I forgot to add that the picture showing MS clearly takes place after Minovksy stuff was discovered.
>>23452336I should add that the propulsion would've probably been fusion rockets anyway but then that picture already takes place after so I still can't find pre-Minovsky fusion sources. Could just be research much like today.
>>23452346Rereading through the Zeon Space Forces Vessels section on https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/gundamcentury.html says ion, plasma, chemical rockets were used before Minovsky. This implies if fusion without him did exist, it failed to replace conventional rockets and must've been small blips on the radar at best.
>>23452362Finally, I found something. https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8700 but that's just a translator and I can't find a source on his page for wherever this information is from. It reads as in-universe but is this a summary or did it come from a book? The picture is openly admitted to be a Zeon fleeting MS EFA 0099. I've tried finding sources for this source but I can't.
>>23452383>zeonicWell...
>>23452383Still searching. It's a good thing I have so much free time these days.
>>23452391Yes, I know he's had a few spats. If it's true though then the article also says Zeon's primary energy source is solar so not even Zeon fully transitioned to Minovsky reactors for heating homes by the time the OYW happened.
>>23452383You probably won't find much. There's not much of Gundam set before the OYW. No giant robot action. It could make an interesting sidestory but Gundam's a merchandise-driven franchise all about toy sales. There's not much incentive on having big stories set before anything marketable.
>>23416876If it's UC Gundam (this being /m/) then you're going to get heavily taxed for the sake of some Earth politician's resort and hooker. And it won't even be a hot ass spacenoid hooker It'll be an earthnoid hooker's face he's gonna put a bag over.
>>23417050And the hot chicks. Tits and ass not held back by Earth's gravity.
>>23420064What about the style of lunar city we have in Gundam?
>>23420809They would need whole industries to support the existence of colonies. Space manufacturing, ways to mine the Moon unless you have the energy and means to send Earth resources up but that'd be a waste given minerals in space. Whole society would need to change and hopefully we have fusion energy. Also Zeon did more than a regular colony drop. They gassed lots of colonies because they see Federation aligned colonies as Federation even if they're spacenoids too. Zeon should've noticed the dead people were way sexier than earthnoids but they killed them before they fucked them.
>>23422933It would. In most franchises it's exactly like that. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheElitesJumpShip
>>23424552>Is spacenoid pussy better thanYes
>>23428464It would need maintenance but it would have a level of gravity and possible resources on the planet. For gas giants, there's no way but I believe we'd need settlements on the moon or planets first to support making space colonies before we get space colonies for several reasons.
>>23444112No, he's right. There's tensile strength but to even exist it would need to be a giant space platform. OP's picture would be an utterly massive mass with outside shell that would need to be enormously tough just by size OP's O'Neill cylinder was supposed to have a partly pressured atmosphere at around half Earth's to relieve stress on walls but it's all a big balloon. like a spacenoid female's giant tits. But Gundam thematically portrays them as high risk and weapons like the Crossbone Vanguard Shot lancer were created to minimize damage to the colony. A beam rifle, unless it hit key structural points or a volatile power source for the whole colony, just isn't wide enough to cause that much damage. Even when it's like Zeta and a Psycho Gundam can enter, it didn't destroy the whole colony. So it's more costs of repair and maybe introducing some gasses to stabilize the breathing space.Now that I think of it, it may be a propaganda tool. Shot Lancers may be a way of showing they care more about their invaded target than the defenders whose machineguns straight up bonked a random mother holding her baby. It's less about the actual and more about image. With how much better the Zons are, they can afford to use lighter arms and still win. But then everyone started using beams later on so who knows. Real funny how later UC had more and more bullet weapons like in F91.
>>23444914Probably so. Tensile strength or not, you're still dealing with multiple meters of steel. If you're thinking of a dual-hollow cylinder design too, then it needs to survive itself. With atmosphere, it needs enough strength to avoid popping like a balloon being filled. I'm talking possibly 10 tons of force per square meter. If it could survive existing without collapsing then the usual weapons of a mobile suit aren't going to cut it unless we're gambling it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. A freaking GM's shield can deflect a beam. Gundam thematically likes to depict space as fragile and filled with hardships so we're just supposed to roll with details like beams that bounce off Amuro's thrown shield can also puncture a colony like my penis penetrating a female spacenoid. Maybe they should take samples of my dick's DNA and use it for GM armor because they'd be facing spacenoids 24/7 and thus be harder than Gundarium Alloy.
>>23445703Thick isn't the same thing as mass. You can be thicker but the material is less dense therefore small mass. Thickness is related to length and volume, and is increased when I see spacenoid females. If you're making a space colony, it'd be ideal to have a material that's tough but less dense so you can have most bang for your buck in mass. That way it contributes more structural strength while being less of a burden.
>>23446752That's a problem with some depictions of space colonies. They have an open sky but it's not really useful space. Air is needed but it's not super optimized per-meter cubed space for people who can't fly. Maybe that's a good thing because wide open air like on Earth? If it's big enough then we'd have clouds and rain so simulating Earth weather would be the goal?
>>23447626It's simple. They get no work done because they're too busy fucking each other. And pedophile Glemmy could've cloned more Purus but he held them all to himself. Spacenoids are sexy but they must control themselves. Don't be like Char who blew so much of his money on spacenoid hookers that Geara Dogas can get fucked by Hathaway in a Jegan's vulcans. It's like spacenoid products are created for penetration.Armor and explosions in Gundam is all over the place really. If a unit's reactor blew up while standing inside the colony you'd get a crater and all the houses and underground facilities would be fucked, but you wouldn't get a breach unless you were spectacularly unlucky. Even considering there'd be atmosphere to catch the explosion and air pushed and not just space, suit explosions go at the size of plot. Speaking of plot, we need more PLOT of spacenoid females.
>>23447771Think of the spacenoid pussy.>>23447786Spacenoid pussy is the most valuable resource ever.
>>23447974I didn't think of that but yes. A giant, long rod that's burning hot and a weapon of mass destruction usually refers to every tasteful man of culture when he sees spacenoid women but yes, a colony drop would need to survive tons of forces on their way to the planet to the point the energy spent achieving the drop is way more than the energy delivered. This means colony drops are less likely to be use specifically because they're so inefficient.
>>23448545>multi quintillions estimated value in gold.thats if the price stays the same(which it wont)
>>23448181And pieces of their DNA too depending on if the planets they visit want spacenoid pussy too. Depending on population size, they may eventually suffer from inbreeding. Normally, this wouldn't ever be an issue if a sufficiently large population but Gundam is filled with genocides. Axis was 30,000 approx total counting all soldiers, civilians, and children. In the event a an asteroid base loses most of their number, rebuilding needs bodies.
>>23448244Very interesting proposition. They wouldn't be spacenoids for a while but they'd carry spacenoid genes. I've never read anything where a progenitor race seeds planets with life so they can create a new subspecies of themselves for sex. It's always war or knowledge or any reason besides sex.
>>23448824Just tell them that the spacenoid women are there and begging for them to reproduce with them. UC Gundam had a big population growth until most of the population live on colonies. If you want to sell thicker walls, just tell them it's soundproofing so you can be louder and fuck harder without fears your dick will break a hole in the colony. Normally that'd be patently ridiculous but pic happened and so did one of the Shrike team members dying via MS sized dickslap.I ahve very little faith in companies in not cheapening out, or doing a Pringles and selling the original as diet while making the new "normal" double the fat of the original. Yes, they fucking did that.
>>23449019No, it took gassing. Zaku IIs spammed nukes on ships. Colonies themselves don't fight back so it's more efficient to save nukes for military targets. It was also an extremely fucked up situation where troops like Cima were told they're using a sedative gas to capture the colony but it was all G3 gas. So much spacenoid pussy slayed, and not in the proper way. There's no way even Zeon's people would nuke a colony and think their warhead is anon-lethal. A lie like sedative gas may work.
>>23449019>>23449020>>23449021>>23449023>>23449028Holy crap bro
>>23449450That's a good possibility. The Federation side would've had a very harsh realization their long range attacks like a LoGH fleet battle weren't going to work. On a reverse level, Zeon needed Zakus with nuclear warheads because they knew Minovsky jamming would happen. Nukes would also be less efficient in space without any air to carry their explosion force but a point-blank hit to a Fed ship would still be a guaranteed kill to anyone within its blast radius. It's be like a Zaku Bazooka +1 in battle. It's not like toxic gas is going to do anything in space. Nuke the ships, gas for the colonies. >>23449457If the rich knew how sexy spacenoids were, they'd be going to space. Maybe this is their plan. They want to breed spacenoids so they have all the spacenoid pussy in the world when they leave Earth too.
>>23449976I see you are a man of fine taste. Spacenoid pussy genetically modified to receive your dick. Don't worry about the bullying. Those Coordinator birth rates and breeding programs mean they need bodies. The Clyne Faction preaches breeding with Naturals. Where's that copypasta about what if ZAFT wins and runs into breeding issues so they get Naturals in forced rape camps? That's the true endgame.
>>23450391If they don't import spacenoid pussy, then they're squandering resources more valuable than oxygen. I'm reminded of a scene from Fist of the Blue Sky that fits this. I can't find it but I will.
>>23450759Fixed
>>23450391>>23452729Found it. Men exist for the purpose of sleeping with beautiful women. When your dick is inside a spacenoid women, even life is secondary compared to the ability to keep screwing.
>>23450759>>23450768This is why Zeon is villainous. They've destroyed more spacenoid pussy than anyone else without destroying it the way they're supposed to be destroyed.
>>23451094If I remember right, Amuro at the start of Zeta lived in a fabulous mansion on Earth, while in Unicorn banana had a meal with Marida in pic. But the big mansion Full Frontal lived in was way more luxurious and I don't know how much of this is the norm and how much is the exception. At least, it fits Zeon's hypocrisy with complaining about conditions while being way better off or living like kings while their own people suffer under them worse than the average Fed colony's quality of life.
>>23452649>Thickness is related to length and volume, and is increased when I see spacenoid females.you cheeky dickwaffle
>>23451182Dick is the key. If they had simply dicked all the spacenoids, they'd submit happily. >>23451324Fed bad choices include not dicking the spacenoids sexually more.
>>23451094>>23452757Back to Unicorn, there seems to be lss well off places in the colonies. Thing is, Banana is here as a prisoner after Full Frontal captured him probably as an attempt to convert him. Making him feel pity on these people or hate the Feds one way or another must've been part of the plan to get the Unicorn on their side.
>>23452768Btw link I used for screencaps is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiIi-j1W6Eo
>>23416876
>>23452683>so did one of the Shrike team members dying via MS sized dickslapWhat an odd scene.
>>23452640>A freaking GM's shield can deflect a beam.That's partially anti-beam coating but not all have massive copious amounts. At some point it wears off but they can at least take a hit before being destroyed so the point sticks. MS armor does have scenes of occasionally surviving a hit so long as it's not a cockpit and the average MS isn't as armored as The O or covered as the Hyaku Shiki. The ZZ could take hits and the Stark Jegan gets grazed in the arm by the Kshatriya's funnels without causing any loss of function. I recall scenes in UC specifically where shoulder beam hits get tanked too.
>>23452640>>23452865There's also different power ratings but honestly, it just begs the question why don't they set them lower. The Kshatriya's funnels are enough to slice through Jegans but that gif has a Stark Jegan taking a hit and lasting. The Kshatriya's own wings appear to be strong enough that when Unicorn hijacked them, they stood against the funnel shots and it took the Unicorn itself coming in. The confusing part about power ratings to me is how infrequently it has anything directly to do with power. Sure, they say they have stronger weapons and machines with bigger beams tend to have higher outputs, but when's the bare minimum? Outside Doven Wolfs or exceptional grunt mechs with exotic weapons few have, how do I compare them? Like the standard fare especially when their beam gun isn't directly connected to their generator but with e-caps. Is it supposed to have some massive help for a Jegan or especially miniaturized suits like the Heavygun? I can understand CV beam shields but what do they do with that energy? Just fly around faster along with their already smaller mass? It's especially bad when writer bias makes Zaku IIs outperform GMs badly.I could try looking at explosion sizes but in https://youtu.be/3u8-JC9Mkdk?si=hVdAiLsk-E13WTHo&t=126 explosions in Gundam were never really consistent. Some might be dramatic effect but even considering different machines, the same machine can be hit by the same weapon and still have a different explosion size. If I had to guess, it's warhead payload? The Jegans in CCA made bigger explosions with missed missiles than the Gaza hit by a few and exploding in the video.
>>23452949>Just fly around faster along with their already smaller mass?The funny thing there is the Heavygun's chalked in-universe up as a "mini-Jegan" so even though it's smaller, lighter, and better generator output, it wasn't a good enough improvement to distinguish itself from the Jegan that much. You'd think even if it wasn't a smaller target, the difference in speed would be meaningful in an age where dodging had long been the metagame compared to blocking.
>>23452958And it wasn't even cheaper either. This in-universe article written 146 U.C. says that miniaturized suits were expensive enough that there's another market for refurbished machines and replicas of older ones. Shrinking the plastic models in real life had varois downsides like being more difficult to make and it looks like in-universe the whole point about saving costs in a relatively peaceful time before the Corssbone Vanguard attacked went the opposite of their intended goal.
>>23452967I'd wager a zaku could actually hand the late UC mini suits better than it could the mid UC fat asses honestly. Tissue paper armor seen in >>23452858 and all that jazz so even it's outdated weapons are a serious threat if it can land them such as via a surprise attack. What caliber are the Shot Lancer's machineguns anyway? Is it higher caliber than a Zaku's machinegun?
>>23452949If it's one thing the in-universe design philosophy doesn't focus as much on, it's putting the gun before the mech. What I mean is it's a thought process that rather than seeing a tank as a vessel for the cannon, it treats the tank body as the star. For mechs, there's times where the system like funnels, psychoframe or NTD is understandably the special part and worth more than the weapon (or is the weapon) but they forget that for most mechs, it doesn't matter if a Zaku II pulls the trigger, if a Jegan, or anything else. Rarely, the mech can't handle the recoil like the Unicorn's beam magnum wrecking arms but most weapons aren't like that and if Banagher stole only the Unicorn's right arm and grafted it to his Silver Bullet, it wouldn't need so many spare arms. The real-life reason is Gundam being merchandise driven but it's funny to think how most care more about the machine than the actual damage delivery system which doesn't care who pulled its trigger. I couldn't tell if an OYW era Beam Rifle would've bounced off the body of a more advanced 100s UC grunt mech body. Only Hyper Mega Launchers and built-in weapons directly take energy from its reactor and hypothetically would've done more damage if the reactor was better. In real-life, we develop new calibers or even new variants of the same caliber to the point a Vietnam soldier's 5.56 isn't what soldiers today use. For beams? I have no clue if later standard grunt guns are any more accurate, stronger, higher ammo capacity, besides the jump from beam spray gun to beam rifle being less budget.
>>23452993It's just plot like how mobile suits hog much of the best technology to the point tanks and planes can't ever get it. In Gundam, the moment the first mobile suit is ever fielded, somehow, somewhere (and I'd love to see a series showing how Anaheim and Zeonic got together to fucking pull this off and spark a highly profitable war) every single last piece of research, development and even modernization retrofits stopped cold for anything that wasn't an overpriced two-legged robot. Permanently. Antigrav? Not on OUR tanks! Mobile suits only! Beam cannons? We can put them on tiny funnels but fuck you, aerospace forces, you don't get this shit ever!
>>23452994Now that you mention it, if miniaturizing and shrinking was so important, they could've done more to the general shape. If not tanks and planes, at least remove the legs like the Zeong if it's in space. But then pilots like to kick. Maybe Char lost against Amuro because he couldn't Char Kick in the Zeong.
>>23452973>What caliber are the Shot Lancer's machineguns anyway? Is it higher caliber than a Zaku's machinegun?The Zaku's gun fires 120mm rounds. Not sure if they were ever specified, but the machine guns built into the shot lancer handle are very tiny, each shot lancer has two to four of these machine guns and it's already a smaller MS and handheld weapon than the Zaku and its machine gun. They're like compact like head vulcan guns so maybe shooting 30mm to 60mm rounds.>I'd wager a zaku could actually hand the late UC mini suits better than it could the mid UC fat asses honestly. Tissue paper armor seen in >>23452858 and all that jazz so even it's outdated weapons are a serious threat if it can land them such as via a surprise attack.You're not really wrong. The G-Cannon is a support fire MS made for the miniature MS era and the base model carries gatling cannons that fire 130mm rounds which is similar to the Zaku machine gun, except it's got two of them and could probably fire at a higher rate.https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/F71_G-Cannon
>>23452994pic related
>>23452993>For beams? I have no clue if later standard grunt guns are any more accurate, stronger, higher ammo capacity, besides the jump from beam spray gun to beam rifle being less budget.Grunts generally get the short end of the stick. In UC0088 some grunts start using beam cannon\launcher style weapons, but they aren't really different from a beam rifle other than that they fire larger or longer bursts than a beam rifle. It's great for attacking larger targets like ships or bases, but beam rifles remain the standard for ease of use since they balance smaller size, lower power requirements, and the ability to kill most enemies or at least deal decent damage in a single shot. Beam machine guns sort of exist as a niche weapon, but somehow never catch on.Not much changes until partway into late UC, where newer tech like VSBRs and their cheaper beam bazooka derivatives for grunt MS come into play and have dual-purpose firepower, offering the option of fast high-penetration beams or slower and wider but more destructive beams in one weapon.
>>23452958It is the most cynically literal interpretation of the demands. >smaller but not missing out on performance So here's a mini Jegan.
>>23452993Can't tell myself. Just rewashed pic's scenes and I can't tell if the Zee Zulus are any more durable than OYW or Gryps era suits.
>>23452768That's specifically Palau, a small asteroid settlement which is sorta in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and is a hideout for Zeon remnants, so it's kinda natural that it's not up to same living standard as a normal colony of 5~10 million residents that has proper supplies, regular trade, economy with jobs for everyone, etc. I guess these small mining operations like Palau that provided material for early space colony construction would have been the dangerous and cruel environments that early colonists worked in.As a counterpoint, it's also a thing that the civilians that worked in the Core 3 mining operation in ZZ reject the idea of coming under the control of Haman and don't seem to have much anti-Fed sentiment, maybe they had nicer and safer conditions than Palau ever did.>Making him feel pity on these people or hate the Feds one way or another must've been part of the plan to get the Unicorn on their side.It's written mildly better than the same segment in Gundam AGE, at least.
>>23416876No. I rather not live in a soup can breathing recycled parts when I'm not being gassed by space nazis.
>>23453063>I can't tell if the Zee Zulus are any more durable than OYW or Gryps era suits.The Zee Zulus have titanium armor and may or may not have had anti-beam coating applied. The Zogok's basic steel armor gets perforated by the Byarlant's guns firing on a beam machine gun mode, but the Zee Zulu can withstand it.
>>23453092Before the Byarlant Custom came out, a Zee Zulu gets his side blasted by it from inside the warehouse and exploded. I guess the side of their thighs isn't very armored.
>>23453432That may have been an Aqua Zaku but the color looks the same to me and there's one Gouf that straight up got lost on the way there so who knows.
>>23453432>>23453443I rewatched it slowly. The shoulders of the first guy he shot are Zaku Mariner. It's an improved version of some of Zeon's aquatic Zaku series.
>>23453063He set the beam cannon to lower output anyway for rapid fire rather than power. Energy efficiency against more enemies is my guess. It took him longer to destroy any of his enemies than if he used a standard beam rifle.
>>23452865>I recall scenes in UC specifically where shoulder beam hits get tanked too.Speaking of rewatching segments of Unicorn, your description fits the Capule and a glancing Nemo shot.
>>23453461Is it standard tactics to use rapid fire, lower damage weapons against enemies with outdated weapons? The ECOAS Jegan also came against a Zssa with a pistol instead of grabbing a beam rifle and it hit the Zssa's hunchback head and needed a secondary flame grenade to actually destroy it after blinding it. I don't think it went past the head even though the profile means if it penetrated, especially firing from above, it would've went though.
>>23453513Speaking of Ecoas Jegan, one takes an arm hit that explodes but doesn't go through when fighting another which Full Frontal hijacked with his wires. Special Jegans are built tougher than I remember judging by the Stark Jegan's arm tanking a Kshatriya funnel beam.
>>23452949I remember an old post on /tg/ which thought it was weird the direction ms development ment post gryps
>>23453092>may or may not have had anti-beam coating appliedIf it did then props to the waterproofing that it didn't wash off.
>>23453513>The ECOAS Jegan also came against a Zssa with a pistol instead of grabbing a beam rifleAnd the nearby captured Geara Zulu and another Jegan have them but threw them away. if you gathered all the discarded GM shields over the years, would it be enough material to make a space colony?
>>23447074>Suspension bridges are dynamic structures, and rotating space-colonies would be even more so. The more mass you need to hold together, the closer to material limit you get, and if you have effect of resonance you discovers the colony will pretty much destroy itself throught vibration or fatigue.That's missing out on the internal air pressure to have anything remotely human livable and many, many differences between them.
>>23453513I think it's more like they don't want to accidentally cause a reactor explosion that close to the ship. Earlier in Unicorn OVA episode 2, Full Frontal snipes a ReZEL that was taking off from the catapult deck, and it tumbles out of control before exploding. The explosion was massive and still close enough to basically vaporize most of the Nahel Argama's left catapult deck and render it useless for the rest of the OVA. Zaku explosions in 0079 were potent enough to create colony hull breaches already, so it's a decent concern.
>>23449019This begs more questions than it answers. You argue efficiency but with how much time and effort it takes to make one, wouldn't the argument be to protect that investment and the lives inside? Even historically, officers and noblemen who spent lots of money on swords, clothes, and armor tend to bling them out to show off. Adding extra bells and whistles on an already expensive investment to further enhance or make them stand out was the norm in some eras. Today, military-grade is just slang for lowest bidder political deals and many civilian firearms are easily better or customizable better than equivalent military small arms. Even if the initial product isn't extravagant, many buyers add things to make it better.
>>23453631If so then lighting the exterior on fire's a weird choice. Minovsky reactors explode when beams are used, Geara Doga explode when Hathaway uses his vulcans on them https://youtu.be/3u8-JC9Mkdk?si=FQ_I0Qps3qW1Wkqj&t=68, and he thinks heat is a good choice. is there anything on Heat Axes or Heat-based weapons being less volatile to reactors? Seems counter-intuitive you're trying to prevent an explosion by burning someone.
>>23453644That scene still sticks out to me because of how weird it is. It could've been the beam rifle but then the way it chipped at the shield is weird even for beam rifles if the shield forgot to have anti-beam coating. I want to know what "fuck this guy and his whole lineage" bullets Hathaway fired.
>>23453644>If so then lighting the exterior on fire's a weird choice.>Seems counter-intuitive you're trying to prevent an explosion by burning someone.From what we've seen, covering an MS in napalm or whatever doesn't destroy it. There's a Zaku in MS Igloo that gets caught in the explosion of a napalm warhead and the pilot is panicking but the commander tells him to just keep moving. I guess sooner or later the suit will get damaged due to heat, but I don't think fire and napalm is an immediate danger to the reactor the same way a beam that tears a hole through all the armor and reactor containment walls is a danger.>is there anything on Heat Axes or Heat-based weapons being less volatile to reactors?This I have no answer for at all, sorry.
>>23453650If anything, it's oddly consistent because Amuro is also just deleting parts from Geara Dogas with head vulcans as well.
>>23453644>>23453677Atmospheric reentry is another big deal and they can survive some heat if treated, gundarium alloy, etc. They still get totaled there but that's an extreme case. Explosions seem to be more about both the beams and reactor's Minovsky Particles being of a similar sort, thus while real-life fusion reactors wouldn't explode, the leftover fuel gets cooked off by the beams in a way it wouldn't if other projectiles including missiles that don't contain Minovsky Particles were used.Then mechs explode due to vulcan fire. And there's scenes where missile explosions cause them to explode anyway too. I guess the logic (if there is any) is the outer shell is relatively fireproof so long as you don't nail the reactor. Which is honestly a gamble unless you've got an in-depth understanding of your enemy mech and where the reactor's located OR if he's carrying other propellant that would go up in flames too. Some random new mech developed by an enemy faction nobody ahs the blueprints to could very well have the reactor located in a weird place or propellant tanks like the Sinanju where Full Fruntal successfully fooled Banagher into thinking he hit him via explosion size.
>>23453631Speaking of the Argama's armor, the catapult door's weaker than the outer Chobam armor for the Alex. https://youtu.be/ITBCE1_-uGk?si=bPQLxtrTSoiewNR3
>>23416876How easy is it to rape people in space?
>>23451831>You pretend to know soooo much more about gundam and yet you don't mention the Jupiter Energy fleet, launched in 2026 AD?>UC had nuclear fusion before, it was just not the "radiation free" kind that SF like, which is where Minovsky reactor come in.[Citation Needed]
>>23452027You are only fooling yourself with your posturing.>you're saying it takes millions of years of toil.That's not what I said and I almost hope you know it. I said it took millions of years for it to happen naturally, and since science didn't instant reverse-engineer evolution, since UC don't have godlike immortality treatment, isn't a biopunk setting, we can safely assume UC still can't make perfect self-sustaining biosphere.As much as we can predict the future anyway...Again: UC is not depicted as post-scarcity and they struggle reversing Earth ecosystem collapse.>>23452051First, I notice you are not actually answering the point made about space colonies being fragile and that even if it was possible, you cannot make them nuke-resistant.It's as if you are deflecting.I never claimed the massacre was "only done by nuke", that's your new strawman.My point was only about the stupidity of thinking "colonies should have been nuke-resistant" or that there's political reason to do so. You didn't answer, either.Want to mention a lot of the killing was done by bioweapon? Ok, it doesn't contradict anything I said, and we still have colonies wrecked apart.>And a treaty that happened after supposed to mean?You live in a real world that still shaped by treaties between mortal enemies. It's kinda retarded to pretend UC can't have any or that minor/ongoing breaches are enough to make them all invalid. As Zeon's weakness have been called out by Revil, they had all the reasons to abide to a treaty that also let them claim the (almost capitulating) Federation was equally at fault for all the genocide. It's just like Putin in space.
>>23452098>you're not telling the full story.Only because I have only so much time and room to exchange on a topic.None of us can say with absolute certainty that some engineering breakthrough will make beamed solar energy the most economical method, and even if it is the most economical for some use, like powering cities in space with less transmission loss, it may not be as economical in other context. Mastering nuclear fusion have plenty of other, large scale, practical usage, especially for spaceships.As it is also a mean of storing energy, we would produce it even just to use it in vehicles.Carrying an antenna to obtain energy from solar satellites that also have to track you if not predict your moves isn't exactly practical.Helium-3 (among other potential fusion fuel) is rare because we do not have the technology to reach better sources or brute force it, accept overcost but still come out as economical because Fusion is crazy efficient.>>23452151There's been research before, there's still research today.Could it be that we don't instantly become able to replicate a biosphere?Could it be that UC as a setting didn't instantly perfect everything about nature and complete self-sustaining biosphere?It's simple:Anon was acting as if I said it couldn't ever happen, almost like he was fighting a bioengineered combat strawmanYour answer sound like wishfull hope that 100% self-sufficiency will be ready (soon!!!!) right as we need it, just because there's been some progress far from what we need.Me I'm just saying biology is among the most difficult science and it's not surprise Gundam as a Sci-Fi setting don't pretend it mastered it.So it was no tangent, it was a direct answer to anon. Just wishing for it to happen don't mean it will.https://pictolic.com/en/article/why-the-american-experiment-biosphere-2-failed-which-could-change-the-worldAnd even multinational corporation working in GMO with clear interest in sight still can't make custom plant.
>>23452303>>23452330The first Jupiter Energy Fleet was launched in 2026 AD, I've just googled a contradictory claim between 2045AD and 2081AD for the start of UC.But even if we were to ignore timeline because "Sci Fi author have no sense of scale", there's more than enough SF around explaining why fusion is great to have. We are pursuing it today despite having no way to mine it on the moon, we do know nuclear process that produce helium-3 as a side effect.https://www.helionenergy.com/articles/how-to-engineer-a-renewable-deuterium-helium-3-fusion-fuel-cycle/Fusion energy is very efficient as a power source and could easily compete ahead (or in parallel) with solar energy even with a transmission with few losses getting the same magical treatment as "radiation-free nuclear reactor".As said in a prior post it's also a matter of practicality, solar station need a lot of space, you need line of sight with the receiver or relay, the microwave beam is quite dangerous for any living being in-between...etcSo really, I'm never said no-beamed-power, but there's very clear and obvious reason why Gundam AD-UC would naturally nuclear fusion, even with the nasty radiation, even as a transitory energy, even for specific usage.
>>23452543>What about the style of lunar city we have in Gundam?It's essentially a space colony except 0.1G.The elephant in the room is still whether mankind can live under a gravity other than 1G for all their life without having (generational) health problem.If you've heard of it, making the whole city rotate on magnetic bearing would be costly, complex and impractical.Mankind typically settle somewhere because they can't reach (or make) a better place, physically, politically, or because you absolutely need human there and you can't control remote robots because of latency & interface.The moon would allow Lunar elevators >>23420809 that reach a good place for space-habitat so you could live in orbit and descend in vacuum-maglev train to work in some lunar mines or visit some biodome with gigantic lunar tree or something.If you can bioengineer humans to live anywhere, then the Moon 0.1G, or Mars 0.3G gravities can be unique resources that appeal to your lifestyle.Whatever the case, you would necessarily have access to space for all resources not already/easily present around and other reasons.A low-gravity moon with no atmosphere to bother magnetic launcher would definitely have easy access to space.
>>23452627There's context you've missed out. We were not talking of mere beam attack or occasional MS explosion, it was about colonies resisting the very heavy stuffs like nukes during the one-week-war, and also for another anon the colony drop itself.As you say yourself O'Neill colonies were not built with 1:1 Earth atmosphere to relieve stress, a -dedicated- nuke exploding inside would be enough to pop one like a balloon.Now, for less powerful weapon, there's plenty of place that could still create a cascade failure. The spindle for example would only be protected enough to not fail to random asteroids, dumb accident, or debris we would be too lazy to catch.But nothing survive for long a concentrated fire meant to destroy. No doubt Gundam exaggerate the power of their minovsky-boosted particle beams.>>23453635As I said above, I can only do so much to keep the context behind that post in mind.Originally it was about anon being acting shocked colonies weren't nuke-resistant, acting as if it was no big deal to just "make them stronger".Then that anon lost sight of the topic and answered just what he wanted to argue against.>wouldn't the argument be to protect that investment and the lives inside?Against normal/environmental danger, sure.It's pointless to hope to armor a colony against nuclear weapon and every single thing imaginable.Even then, building many (as they did) keep the eggs protected in more baskets, better than they would be in one basket vainly armored.I don't want to carry on your weapon-market metaphor, but we did learn (still are) about "wunderwaffe" versus "mass-produced weapon".Favoring pure performance in a few areas tend to work against adaptation in other areas.
>>23453677For that particular scene, the heat wasn't the issue, it was the fact that Jackson stopped in a panic after Czariano ordered the team to rush the Hildolfr and not stop for any reason because otherwise Sonnen would get a clear shot at them, which is exactly what happened moments later. But 1200 Celsius is close to a Zaku's heat tolerance since we did see Crown's Zaku burn up on re-entry into the Earth's Atmosphere in the original series and I believe that reaches up to to 1600 degrees, although the friction of that could be another factor.
>>23456564>>23456566>>23456573>>23456580>>23456589I do not know what you think you're doing filling this saged thread full of ill-informed nonsense but several anons of varying levels of horniness have all given their responses but I will repeat what I wrote before[CITATION NEEDED]I have not read anything from you which answers the Jupiter Energy Fleet's existence, which others have replied saying it mined hydrogen fuel and methane, specifically mined hellium 3 for consuming it as energy. They might very well have mined it as a future energy source. Another reply whom I copied the "ydrogen fuel and methane" section from above postulated that it could've been for research to become a future energy source rather than being one in the present. Given it's speculated even today as a future energy source and Universal Century humanity seems to be in an energy crisis, it wouldn't be a dumb investment to get some while they have the chance. Businesses buy based on predictions of future demand all the time.But rather than answer me with a citation, I get evidence you've been ignoring everything everybody else has been telling you while giving 0 sources whatsoever for your claims riddled with underlying assumptions which I've already seen replies call into question. You behavior is like a salesmen or higher tier corporate bullshitters I have encountered in large companies, you know, the type that don't just rise through hot air and convincing other bullshitters, but that can hide their unsophisticated behind sophisticated wording. Proof or GTFO.
>>23456589>I don't want to carry on your weapon-market metaphor, but we did learn (still are) about "wunderwaffe" versus "mass-produced weapon".Wait a moment, what? What kind of logic is this? Mass-produced goods need a bare minimum of standards in order to work, enforced by law or because nobody would buy if they think your product sucks. Building as many as possible doesn't work if they're China level tofu dreck. I had to reread that post after I the first time to realize WTF did I just read.Putting your eggs in several baskets doesn't work if all the baskets are broken. Speaking of Wunderwaffles, you want to know one of many reasons Germany utterly failed to obtain the atom bomb, the one true successful wonder weapon of WWII? They had several ongoing nuclear programs that clawed each other for resources by design because they wanted to let survival of the fittest. But all that did was leave multiple programs insufficiently funded to get off the ground and what little they accomplished was ONLY claw and bite marks on each other as they wasted what little resources they had. Having too many cooks make too many stews, each without enough ingredients to be more than hot water, is one of the reasons the Germans would've mismanaged all their resources even IF they had far more resources. Consider reading about the Uranverein.
>>23456564I repeat what I wrote in >>23457012. Your behavior is like a salesmen or higher tier corporate bullshitters I have encountered in large companies, you know, the type that don't just rise through hot air and convincing other bullshitters, but that can hide their unsophisticated behind sophisticated wording. Proof or GTFO. When accidentally rereading when scrolling up, I discovered you said you didn't mean to say it would take millions of years. When what's the point of bringing up natural processes taming millions of years? Following up the replies >>23452027 was saying it wouldn't take millions of years and it's irrelevant how long nature takes it. The before >>23451854 said in response to >>23449491 that it took millions of years to naturally occur but that we may discover a faster way, which >>23449491 already said we can do that which >>23452027 elaborates on how.So why bring up naturally taking millions of years in the first place? If it's not another corporate bullshitter red herring, this is to illustrate an idea of how long right? Because elsewise it's like bringing up how long it took for the Big Bang until present day.I don't really care but it just illustrates to me how I am not going to get an actual [CITATION] if I get anything. If I get a reply, it'll be a stage magician distraction.
>>23457032That's an interesting analogy and a degree of historical accuracy I wouldn't expect on a random space colony /m/ thread. America had several times more industry and resources but that's also true. The US centralized theirs, gathered all the knowledge, experienced personnel and resources and put it all under one roof, whereas the Germans had several competing groups, who were all competing with each other for funding and got little done, even before their shit got blown up. The whole Darwinian intentional infighting intentionally implemented in the Nazi is rarely shown in space Nazis in fiction. Their secret services like the Gestapo were spending just as much time killing each other. We see inefficiency and infighting in Zeon, in Star Wars the Galactic Empire, but nowhere as much as in real Nazi Germany. The entire political/industrial structure of Nazi Germany was a nightmarish tangle of private businesses, government organizations, bureaucrats, and ambitious officials with overlapping portfolios and responsibilities. Hitler frequently gave out contradictory orders and deliberately pitted his subordinates against each other as part of his social Darwinist beliefs; the strongest and best would naturally rise to the top through competition while the others were weeded out, thus improving the whole. In practice, this system was dysfunctional, inefficient, unresponsive, wasteful, and full of more backstabbing bastardry than an average game of Diplomacy. People became too scared to make decisions without Hitler around, companies and factories wasted precious time and materials on design contracts that were ultimately awarded to other firms, there was an ongoing multi-way fight between the army, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, and Waffen-SS for resources, manpower, and money throughout the war, and people like Himmler and Goering carved out their own private spheres of influence in the middle of it all, further splintering the government. It's Sith without Empire.
>>23457090It would be very interesting. Neither Zeon nor the Empire were explicitly based around social Darwinian teachings, though the Sith being very Nietzsche in a way more accurate than Hitler's botched understanding from Nietzsche's dipshit sister means Palps would've purposely shifted his empire that direction, it would be an interesting read. But it's better off being the Empire in that they're already the galactic superpower first because Zeon infighting ruined them many times even without a system with infighting ingrained.Really, Zeon wouldn't even make it that far. Ghiren and Kycilia, Haman and Gremmy, they wouldn't be able to create a society with deliberate infighting because everyone would be fucking infighting all day anyway. They'd die of unofficial infighting before they can make infighting an official policy. If they don't implode, they'd be easy pickings for everyone else.
>>23457113We saw a small bit in GQuuuuuuX with factionalism but it's not intentional in the system. What about Code Geass Bretannia? The royal family is that way.
>>23457119I did not expect Code Geass to be brought up but that's absolutely right. Darwin is hailed as a saint. That's a better example of whole society being based around the idea of i. They're not the sole superpower like I suggested but they're one of them and constantly powerful enough that JUST the infighting wasn't destroying them but specific infighters like Lelouch with ambitions beyond just conquest. I had to remind myself of Code Geass HBE's system. It's been years since I watched Code Geass.
>>23457143I'd add that I agree with your statement that individual quality being compromised by too many cooks would be a great headache. Just having too many would honestly cost more than enhancing one thing by more and the odds of each being individually bad and ruined goes up. It's a very difficult balancing game and I wouldn't know the answer. Maybe the whole concept of baskets altogether is flawed and there's an over, 50% chance of failure regardless of how well construction goes so making many is the only way any survive. But if I was in that situation, I'd just back out of it immediately because these are space colonies that would cost easily trillions each and cost millions minimum in failure. If it were truly like this then I'd declare the whole concept infeasible and try something else.
>>23457173Underwater cities?
>>23457090The issue with having a "true" fictional Nazi copy is that the real-life versions were a bunch of incompetents who did a better job pretending and fooling others into thinking they're tough than actually being tough. They're scammers who ran ponzi schemes on their own people. They're honestly pathetic on several levels. As a villain group, they're more alike a generic first boss rather than the climactic final boss.
>23424248no you are Lame
>>23457012>>23457032>>23457048To be honest, watching you try to gaslight and posture is almost entertaining, it's obvious you are in damage control mode because I called out your disingenuous bullshit. It doesn't even take more than a post.>spoonfeed me!If you can't even crosscheck the basic yourself, extra links won't help you.>Jupiter Energy FleetIt's canonically a for-profit corporation selling fuel for fusion reactor, they sure didn't predict minovsky reactor or speculated over half a century early without a market for fusion reactors/propulsion.>weapon-market methaphorNice attempt to derail the metaphor, spending money on science-based atomic bomb is still smarter than on wunderwaffe for irrational reasoning.The Nazis lost because they believed they could make the "ultimate whatever that resist everything" while others understood they only needed as many "good enough for the job" as possible.>Putting your eggs in several baskets doesn't work if all the baskets are brokenExcept the "basket" here did in fact protect more eggs through numbers and making less of them still wouldn't have made them capable of survive nukes (or gassing).Sorry, your contrarianism can't turn the adage around. Quantity is a quality.>So why bring up naturally taking millions of years in the first place?Because I expected you to be smart enough to understand.It is an explicit way of expressing the complexity of the task in terms of scientific understanding, technological imitation, logistical scaling, not counting the implied trial & errors that come from not having godlike prediction.Biosphere and human bodies are incredibly complex, we are more likely to invent AGI / hard-AI first through brute force than to master the biology that keep us alive.The Universal Century simply do not have perfect self-sufficiency yet, hence organic need.Don't worry, I'm not more from you than more posturing and silly rhetoric.Colony drop is a fitting end for this thread.
>>23458997NTA but you prove him completely correct. He asks for a source and you're all>SPOOOONFEEDAnother guy before tried finding a source and he found a scanlator who didn't have a source either. So why would anyone trust literally anything you say? You proved you're willing to do gymnastics rather than give a source..
>>23458997History reader who just noticed the upper corner of the screen has a white exclamation mark here, you just reversed my previous happiness with your post. Not only is it lacking in any self awareness saying others are gaslighting you, calling others disingenuous, or calling being asked for a source spoonfeeding rather than a basic requirement when giving information to prove you aren't making things up, you have your head up your own ass with your self-righteousness. You're not debunking anything and especially not history. Didn't those replies already answer you with viable ways to recreate organic material from asteroids? You didn't address them. You conveniently ignore anything refuting you while accusing others you hypocrite. Looks like separating paragraphs this way is how most here fo it so I will do it to better format this point. NO, you complain historically illiterate dumbass. They had some projects doing that but that was not the absolute nor was it accurate considering their quality or lack of quality. Many weapons they made for mass production or the intent to mass produce before it turned infeasible. What you call good enough was never good enough because the industrial capabilities of Nazi Germany were very inferior and they knew it. Much of their tanks and industries were made with the help of Ford, GM, and other American car companies. Their obsession with miracle war winning weapons was because they knew deep down that they were way inferior to many of their enemies and needed an ace in the hole. Anything remotely just good enough isn't enough because they would be inferior in quantity and quality to their enemies. They just plain don't have the industry by themselves nor the resources and made attempts into Africa just for resources. The invasion of Caucasus in the Soviet Union was one of many desperate bids for resources they direly needed. Nothing straightforward would have won and it didn't matter because no matter how efficiently
>>23458997>>23459549(Aw fuck. Out of chars.)-they managed their resources, the truth is they just plain lacked resources. Even if you can make 5 meals out of a bag of grain and everyone else can only do 2, it doesn't matter when everyone else has has 10 or 20 times your grain supply. The invasion into the Soviet Union was doomed. Even by 1940, the Soviets and German logisticians both knew that the Nazis didn't have enough fuel to actually wage the war any further, get any deeper into the Soviet Union. Nazi Germany was cut of from Western trade, and so they had been very much reliant on the Soviets for their oil and other resources. So the Soviets knew exactly how dependent the Germans were on them, and knew they could not wage a war of movement over the kind of distances present in the Soviet Union.They ended up being completely correct, the Nazis ran out of fuel, had to demotorize large units even before Stalingrad, and were on the backfoot ever since. People talk about lend lease but by the time the greater part of it arrived, the Germans were already been pushed back without any sign of reversing. It didn't help that their entire economic model necessitates conflict and would've started invading so peace was never an option. Even ignoring how the Soviets and Nazi Germany considered each other existential threats and would've eventually fought anyway, the German economy was a flimsy mess full of scams Ponzi schemes like >>23457685 said, and debt they planned to pay with invasion. They took out loans for growth but over time there was a need to repay and debtors don't wait forever. So they effectively attacked so they can rob and pass debt onto them. This just illustrates how little resources they had. They entire system relied on invading so other countries can pay their debt while they steal their natural resources because they didn't have enough for themselves. If they did just good enough like you suggested then they'd be forced to use subpar gear at-
>>23458997>>23459549>>23459581-completely trash quality because their industries and lack of resources mean they lack the bare minimum to make anything functional. The Germans wore French underwear for Christ's sake. That's how badly strained they were that they had to use captured enemy underwear factories and maybe even stripping naked dead enemies. This saying of quantity alone is ahistorical. As pointed out, their had many failed nuclear programs compared to the Americans pooling them together. They chased out many scientists who were essential and were working with politically motivated Deutsche Physik hogwash but the lack of organization, lack of coordination, and general infighting guarantees there would be no progress even had there been enough resources. If you read my earlier reply, Hitler liked to pit subordinates against each other under the Darwinist belief that competition will make the best rise but you think he would mindlessly grant everyone infinite resources during this competition? What if the correct way happened to be more expensive and exceed his allotment? Hitler made a big deal about weeding out who he thought were parasites so being a fatass gobbling resources would get you removed. I'm honestly disguised by the sheer audacity to say those things about everyone else here when I'm reading historically illiterate bunk here. I can go on for more about the economics of WWII nations and I can give dozens more reasons why it would never work at all and why their obsession with ultimate everything, which isn't even wholly accurate, was entirely because they fully knew being good enough is above their pay grade. I'm fucking done with you historical illiterate swine.
>>23458997>one anon asks for source>doesn't give oneIs this an indirect admission you don't have a source and that you made every up?
>>23416876Nah, I like classic solar radiation through an atmosphere, not a really big window.
>>23460139You are not fooling anyone
