Why AUEG doesn't just give Amuro Gundam MK II? They have all the three units
>>23494813MK II is dogshit by the time 'muro gets to AEUG, and 'muro is too rusty after years of confinement to deploy him in something grunt-tier
>>23494813For all its feats, the MK2 was practically obsolete by the time amuro joined to take on the titans, it’s frame would do wonders for years to come but the actual machine was technically never even meant to have been used in live combat to begin with, its a “Gundam” made out of TITANIUM ALLOY CERAMIC COMPOSITE
>>23494813No they don't, they have one. Anaheim has the other two.>>23494819>>23494861Mk-II is a fantastic MS, it's just that it's not overwhelming the way Mk-I was. It's on par with Rick Dias.
>>23494813One is for spare parts, the other is sent to Anaheim for analysis. The main one is for Kamille to use of course.>>23494819>>23494861>>23494888None of these are true. Except for firepower, the Mk-II holds up even to the end of the war and even during the Neo-Zeon war.
>>23494888Yeah, and that’s kinda why it fell behind quickly that it needed upgrades, whenever it’d be a set of gundarium full armor or a big backpack booster with a long rifle and missile pods
>>23494896That’s in thanks to it lucking out by having excellent pilots, Emma and Elle
>>23494905>excellent pilots>Ellelollmao
>>23494909It’s joke, she almost lost to a zaku ROFL
>>23494905True, but the suit also had to be able to keep up with their demands and what they were fighting. It's no slouch, and I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss what's clear on-screen in two different shows in favour of something they skimmed from a wiki and then over-emphasised.Hell in one manga a certain beam magnum addict gets his hands on a unit and is able to make it work into the late 0090's.
If MK-II was outdated then why Banagher piloting it ?
>>23494960Nostalgia pandering+plot armor+MK II was shitty enough to not be able to handle the Beam Magnum lol>if Zaku I was outdated why was it used in Unicorn era?
>>23494960I think this particular unit had a doven wolf arm
>>23494896>holds upYeah, with upgrades, again sub-elite grunts, when the pilot's a Newtype
>>23494960>>23494969I think Mineva not giving him a Zeon unit was a good idea to give him some degree of separation and plausible deniability, but at the same time, surely they could have afforded something else?
>>23494996The Mk-II in ZZ was stock and was fighting suits like GaZowmns, Dreissens, and Bawoos.
>>23494813they should have congratulated Kamille for designing the Zeta and immediately given it to Amuro
>>23494996What is this power scaling bullshit. It's a war machine keeping pace in a war, not a shonen side character you're trying to compare to the current arc's cast.>With upgradesAccording to? It isn't using the Super Gundam outside the final battles of each show.
>>23495249This would have been so much funnier. Imagine Kamille and Char on the rocket back then suddenly the Zeta descends down from space.
>>23494813Damn it Beltorchika, Amuro already said he doesn't want to pilot the Mk II!
>>23495253>*old tanks that don't support modern ammunition can't do shit to modern tank front armor*>What is this power scaling bullshit. It's a war machine keeping pace in a war, not a shonen side character you're trying to compare to the current arc's cast.
>>23494888>It's on par with Rick Dias.That's a bad thing. They have way more Rick Dias than MK2s. No point in keeping a spare model around instead of scrapping for parts or sending one to Anaheim for reverse engineering.
>>23495253Moreover you may as well not participate in any Gundam discussions since you'd get filtered by the first 1979 MSG episode
>>23495462They got enough data from it as-is to have Kamilie design the ZetaAnaheim probably received and rejected the offer because they wouldn't want to waste time, logistics, and resources on reversing scrap grunt tier prototype testbed
>>23495452>>23495463Did we watch the same shows? You know, the shows where the MK2 is an active participant to the end of both the Gryps conflict and the Neo-Zeon invasion.Yeah it probably won't have a great time 1v1ing a Qubeley, but even the ZZ barely fights Haman to a draw. The way people talk about it you'd think the MK2 turned back into a pumpkin as soon as the Zeta was introduced. We're never given any reason to think it's significantly behind the curve. Which raises the obvious question as to why anyone would opt to keep using a prototype that's presumably harder to maintain and source parts for over a grunt if it's so far behind anyway.
>>23494960So they can shill the kits again for people to buy and make customs.
>>23495529What kits?
>>23495467The MK2's also possibly one of the most realistic prototypes in Gundam in that it exists to test a concept and not singlehandedly win wars. The Movable Frame system it pioneered ended up being standard for decades. That system is the big cheese and data from it to make other machines means more than the machine itself.
>>23495467>Anaheim probably received and rejected the offer because they wouldn't want to waste time, logistics, and resources on reversing scrap grunt tier prototype testbedwtf do you mean "probably"? are you one of those people who reject something happening because you didn't like it?
>>23495634testing isn't reverse engineering
>>23495674you don't need to disassemble it to reverse engineer it
>>23495696okay, maybe. FUCK MK-II though
>>23494819>>23494861don't forget despite Amuro piloting the ReGz, he still managed to fend off both the sazabi and jadg doga, he'd be fine in the mk2. the armor itself is underperforming but if you consider the controls to be similar or even simplified to the rx78, amuro would shit all over any titans pilot. now against something like the O or the quebely, whoever is the more autistic newtype would win
>>23494813While it has some new and interesting technology in it and is able to keep up with many other contemporary machines, it's not really a top-of-the line suit. It would be something of a waste of Amuro's skill, at least IMO.
>>23494819>too rustyAmuro crashed a cargo plane into an Asshimar and got out of it uninjured, he could've piloted any MS they had perfectly fine.
Well Amuro was in Karaba and not AEUG. for one
>>23495719>whoever is the more autistic newtype would winApparently Amuro's Newtype powers are 3rd below Kamile and Judau.
>>23494861>>23494819>>23495783>it's not really a top-of-the line suit. It would be something of a waste of Amuro's skill>this fucking thread"THE MOST POWERFUL PILOT DESERVES THE MOST POWERFUL UNIT!!!"If a pilot is so talented, wouldn't it be more interesting to see him show off in a comparatively inferior unit against a powerful foe? And, conversely, a technically advanced unit compensates for a low-skill pilot.Build Fighters out of all things understood how this dynamic works. 00 (with the introduction of the GN-Xs) and even SEED (Halberton explaining that the Gundams were made to even the playing field against ZAFT) hinted at this as well. It's really lame to force Amuro into the mold of a dumb shonenshit protagonist, with power level rankings and all that nonsense.
>>23494819I love this Dijeh propaganda
>>23495974>hey this rusty ace who just got out of jail and is a huge political and morale asset? Let's Fucking Put Him into a BALL dude this is going to be SO FUCKING INTERESTING LMFAO CANCEL THAT DIJEH OFFER OFF AND LET'S BUY SOME COKE
Because it’s an outdated piece of shit the moment it’s on screen? This isn’t hard
>>23495789>making a forklift tier crash collision equals doing the equivalent of jet maneuvers
What is with the hateboner some people have for the MK2?
>>23495719What part of "rusty" is so incomprehensible Amuro didn't take a huge fuckoff break before getting onto that ReGz in CCA
>>2349639875% of that is just me. MK-II is cool exactly because it's a well-made piece of shit that wasn't truly intended for real warfare deployment
>>23494896>the Mk-II holds up even to the end of the warThe mk 2 is outdated basically the second it sees action, by the end of the war it's little more than a shitty worse than mass produced suit that can only function as a rear line artillery piece and even then only with a support unit. Sexy design, but in zeta tech was basically growing by leaps and bounds every other week.
>>23496403Oh well that's fine. I agree, part of the reason I like it is because it's clearly good ENOUGH to not hold a good pilot back even against newer suits that on paper are probably superior. I think it's also about as close as Gundam's ever gotten to actually understanding what a prototype or tech demonstrator actually is in real life.Hell even when Amuro gets to clean-sheet design his own mobile suit for Char murder he basically just makes a MK2 with longer legs, more modern guts and some personalised touches like the backup beam saber mount.The MK2 clearly gets the basics extremely right and that carries it a long way. I really like that in a series that sometimes gets a bit lost in the sauce of mobile suit power levels and flashy features.
>>23496386>Let's Fucking Put Him into a BALL dude this is going to be SO FUCKING INTERESTING...and then he proceeds to murder everyone around him. In zoomer terms, "this but unironically".
>>23495974Anon, how are you going to bitch about shounenshit when 90% of it plays right into that David vs. Goliath dynamic? And of course people are going to either advocate for qualified individuals receiving things they're suited to use. It's really not rocket science.
>>23496441that's just mary sue in a different but equally bad direction, it's shit either way if he solos the enemy fleet using the mighty strike freedom or a moebius
>>23496441A little more seriously, something I think that 0079, Zeta and CCA all get right with Amuro is how to portray him as a force on the battlefield. He's a truly terrifying presence but to me at least, it always felt grounded in a reasonably plausible sense that he's just too fucking good. If you could land a hit he'd go down but the fucker just won't stand still, that kind of thing.In particular CCA excels with all the little details. You can see how he thinks fast, plans fast and acts fast. Using his hyper-bazooka as a decoy is one of my favourite plays in the franchise and it barely lasts a second on-screen.But a lot of that is also writers being careful in the kinds of positions they put him in. They don't give him over-the-top situations where the only way to get out is always going to feel like bullshit.
>>23496479>If you could land a hit he'd go down but the fucker just won't stand still, that kind of thing.
>>23496441I wouldn't be so sure of the immediate post-hiatus AmuroHis MSG novel version piloting the G-3 Gundam got killed off by a Dom. He'd be rustier than that, while pilot standards only went higher
>>23496465>plays right into that David vs. Goliath dynamic? You do understand why that is a dynamic in the first place, right?>people are going to either advocate for qualified individuals receiving things they're suited to useThis is an overly complicated way of saying "heroes rule, mobs suck".
>>23495974>>23496497>what the FUCK is a force multiplier and what do you mean you DON'T demote spec ops to infantry just play Gihren Greed, you'll get it
>>23496497>You do understand why that is a dynamic in the first place, right?What does this reply have to do with anything? I'm saying it makes no sense to use shounenshit as a negative the way you do when most of it ends up doing what you claim to want anyway. >This is an overly complicated way of saying "heroes rule, mobs suck".That's not what I'm saying. I agree with the sentiment, but that's not what I'm saying.
>>23496485>His MSG novel version piloting the G-3 Gundam got killed off by a Dom. His MSG novel version piloting the G-3 Gundam got killed off by a Dom.Why are you using that as an example of skill? That was Amuro intentionally stopping during a fight so he could broadcast an emergency message to the White Base, getting killed in the process.
>>23496525>what the FUCK is a force multiplierA stupid fantasy born of woefully misunderstood combat dynamics:https://secretaryrofdefenserock.substack.com/p/the-triumph-of-the-operator>Special forces certainly have their place and are invaluable for specific missions—sabotage, reconnaissance, targeted raids, and counterterrorism operations. These units excel when tasked with high-stakes, precise operations that demand exceptional skill and stealth. Yet, they are not, and have never been, a replacement for conventional forces in large-scale conflicts. The notion that small, agile units of highly trained warriors can single-handedly alter the course of major military engagements is both misguided and dangerously simplistic>historically, reliance on elite units leads to tactical success but strategic failure>just play Gihren Greed, you'll get itI have no patience for turn-based games. I can barely stand Valkyria Chronicles as it is. Let me know when Bandai releases some kind of RTS.
>>23496529>when most of it ends up doing what you claim to want anyway.Like shit it does. The average shonenshit ends up with your designated protagonist just becoming more powerful than the chapter's foe. Examples are myriad and most people would point out DBZ Super Saiyan's levels, but the worst offender is actually Jojo, when Araki couldn't think of any way for Jotaro to outright defeat Dio's Za Warudo, so he just gave Star Platinum time-stop powers as well out of nowhere.
>>23496479>Using his hyper-bazooka as a decoy is one of my favourite plays in the franchiseI never understood that scene, Gyunei couldn't just see the big ass Nu fly away? Did he just get confused as to why Amuro would sacrifice a weapon like that?
Luv' me the MK-II solely because of Emma Sheen. But the Djeh looks good on Amuro
>>23496484I think that's the other part that sells it, other pilots react plausibly to this absolute force of nature on the field. I know it's a completely different franchise but I've always felt the same way about how Star Wars handles Vader. The answer to how he gets out of an over-the-top bind is that you shouldn't put him in it to begin with. Rogue One hallway fight where we see how truly terrifying it would be to be just a dude trapped in a room with him, but also get to see the troops valiantly fighting for the cause anyway? Top stuff.That stupid fucking comic where he gets surrounded by like 300 rebels and he turns on all their thermal detonators at once with the force? Bad, don't put him in a stupid situation to begin with.Exactly the same principle with mecha aces.
>>23496592It's a feint and it startles him. Shield and bazooka one way, Nu the other. Big objects with similar colours going in different directions where you were initially tracking one quick moving target. By the time Gyunei has realised what's happening it's too late, Amuro only needed him confused for a second.
>>23496571>The average shonenshit ends after running the underdog theme ragged for over a hundred chapters, maybe. >but the worst offender is actually JojoIs this bait?
>>23494861I get a double paycheck from Boeing and the Government molding ceramic metal composite frames. FUCK YOU
>>23496617>Is this bait?No, it isn't. And it shows you didn't read the rest of the post. The fact that Araki had to come up with a lame asspull says everything you need to know. A lame finale can ruin even the best stories.
>>23496622I read the whole of your post, which is why I asked in the first place.
>>23496592Gyunei got surprised earlier in the Keyra hostage scene. He demanded Amuro drop all his weapons, so Amuro ejected his funnels but Gyunei thought they were radiator plates and completely discounted them as a threat, only finding out that they were actually the fin funnel weapons moments later.In the later fight scene, Amuro drops a bunch of gear right in Gyunei's line of sight and Gyunei is apparently paranoid, he locks his eyes on them expecting them to be like the funnels from earlier, I guess maybe he was trying to be prepared since funnels are generally a pretty dangerous weapon, after all they're small weapons where if you lose sight of them, they can zip around and attack you from unexpected angles.But it turned out to be just the shield and bazooka floating harmlessly on their own, and Gyunei focusing on them gave Amuro a split second chance he needed to zip around and line up a lethal shot on Gyunei while his attention was away from the Nu.
>>23496648He learned from their last encounter, and unfortunately Amuro did too. I love his ruthless efficiency. He's a soldier and he's there to do his job.
>>23496656>>23496612>>23496592>>23496648Yep, that's basically it, a feint. Amuro also likes to use dummy balloons for the same reason, anything to get an advantage helps.A similar thing happens in 08th MS Team when Norris tosses his heat sword to the side. Shiro locks eyes on that fast movement and watches the sword fly away, but by the time he looks back at Norris, he's already about to hit Shiro with the electric wire.IIRC there's a similar scene in 0083 where Gato tosses a beam saber as a decoy to get up close and force a duel with Kou, but it plays out much more slowly.
>>23496702Both this and the CCA scene also use the camera to put you in the person's POV for a second and demonstrate the distraction being achieved.
>>23496479>But a lot of that is also writers being careful in the kinds of positions they put him in. I think that the most distasteful part of Moon Gundam. How Fukui handles Amuro just to puff up his special snowflake MC feels like bad fanfiction.
>>23496945That's a particular problem with a lot of the sidestories, where Amuro cannot be anything other than this super-powerful Gundam pilot, to the extent they've retconned the Dijeh on model kits and manga.>NOOOO AMURO CANNOT PILOT A MONOEYE!!!! GUNDAMS ONLY!!!(this is from Pulitzer; dialogue is about Amuro actually being an elite test pilot during his supposed house arrest days)Fukui's take is especially noxious thanks to his penchant to treat Newtype events as straight-up superpowers.And yes, I did read that essay of his. I do like his concept of Kamille becoming a soulless shell after his battle with Scirocco, but the whole crap with Banagher is not very good.
>>23496476>it's shit either way if he solos the enemy fleet using the mighty strike freedom or a moebiusI'd say the former is worse, because it portrays the hero as incompetent, having no skills of his own unless he has the upper hand in technology. In other words, the second you put him on even the slightest disadvantage (ie. a mook), he's dead.
>>23497043lmao is that supposed to be Half Zeta on the left?why use that instead of "his" Zeta Plus A1.I think every Gundam manga writer is just trying to one up the others to see who can shoehorn in the most obscure references
>>23497086>why use that instead of "his" Zeta Plus A1.Isn't the Half Zeta a testbed?
>>23496553>The notion that small, agile units of highly trained warriors can single-handedly alter the course of major military engagements is both misguided and dangerously simplisticNTA but this is also overly simplistic. Historically, units of smaller numbered but highly trained units have been the deciding factors for entire wars. Poorly trained conscripts can and have scattered before a cavalry charge, highly disciplined pikemen holding well against a cavalry charge too. The problem is, they're very often not using the same equipment and much of the training is to use said equipment. By that, I mean planes, air force, etc rather than an infantryman. I do agree that modern spec-ops are overrated. The enlisted deserve to eat first and modern fantasies about mercenaries, even snipers, just get them hit with an artillery shell. In Gundam, the analogy wouldn't be someone in a GM or a spec-ops pilot in slightly better GM or Jegan but some Newtype destroying dozens of enemies with funnels or any psychoframe craziness. Something substantially above average and their training isn't geared towards using your GM better but way above.
>>23494861Armor at that stage was a meme due to beam weapons advancement. Later in the grips conflict it would matter more due to advances in anti beam coatings which became standard practice. It's sorta like how the Leopard 1 tank has very little armor because for its time armor didn't matter when guns were so powerful>>23494813iirc they had already gave 1 to Anaheim to tear apart and were using the other one as spare parts which made it incomplete. There really was just the 1 MkII they had on hand for Kamille to be used. Doesn't really matter though because the Rick Dias is about on par with the mkII and they ended up giving Amuro one of those, which would later be refined into the Dijeh which was probably the best custom suit of the trio of Kamille, Quattro, and Amuro until the Zeta comes around
>>23495033There really shouldn't be any MkIIs left, so perhaps it was an Anaheim reproduction with more updated internals? That is the only explanation that isn't retarded. Perhaps Banana just thought the MkII looked cool and with newer internals it was viable for him to use so Minerva ordered him one? I'm just trying to make it make sense
>>23494996What upgrades? The Mk-II in ZZ was actually downgraded by losing the Super add-on. Retard.
>>23494819>>23494861Wrong>>23494888Also wrong. The Mk-II was above the Rick Dias.
>>23497051>I'd say the former is worseNone of the shit you said is even remotely implied by the former situation.
>>23497962>units of smaller numbered but highly trained units have been the deciding factors for entire wars.No, you are thinking of individual battles (tactical level), rather than entire wars (strategic level), which is what the essay is talking about. Let me quote further from the second line.>What makes the current obsession with special operations even more concerning is that it overlooks the lessons learned from past conflicts where reliance on elite units led to tactical success but strategic failure.>In Vietnam, the U.S. deployed special operations to disrupt Viet Cong logistics and leadership, but these successes did not translate into strategic victory because the broader political and social dynamics were neglected.>Similarly, in Afghanistan and Iraq, daring raids and targeted strikes took out countless high-value targets, but they failed to stabilize the countries or build sustainable governance structures.In other words, it doesn't matter how many Charlie MACV-SOG killed that week, or the bomb tonnage dropped in the Tora Bora cave complex. The wars were already lost.
>>23498238Speak for yourself. This has been argued in detail for quite a while now.
>>23494990It has Two Doven Wolf arms strapped together and replacing the MK.II's single right arm.Because somehow that's less dumb than the Silver Bullet Supressor's arm replacement thing.
>>23498314>Adjusting your mobile suit to not move like shit in the dessert is "hax"Not only is the argument entirely missing the point (said point being that you are going out of your way to imagine your pilot using a top-tier mobile suit against a fleet out of incompetence when there is literally no context to justify this), but it's also pants-on-head retarded.
>>23498586Desert*.
>>23495974Agreed.A good enough pilot can actually match up to a more powerful MS even when their own MS is inferior.But then again even talent and skills won't be enough at one point and the pilot WILL have to swap their own old MS for a new one.
>>23494813>They have all the three unitsThey have 2.5 units in Zeta. The one the AEUG uses, the one that was sent to AE to be reverse engineered and studied, and the final one was damaged early while escaping the Titans and was taken apart as spare parts for the first because they didn't have parts to repair it. The first is destroyed at the end of Zeta and in ZZ the second at AE is given to the AEUG. The Dijeh Amuro gets after joining Karaba is also arguably better than the MK-II performance wise and the Zeta plus completely blows it out of the water.
>>23494861>made out of TITANIUM ALLOY CERAMIC COMPOSITEThis was done to make it lighter weight to increase its mobility (basically its only selling point due to the moveable frame) and because that composite mix gives better resistance to beams than standard titanium armor that most MS were still made of.
>>23496571>SSJ levels Unlocking a new form was the answer to beating the bad guy two times, and in both of those cases there was more at play than what you're suggesting. > he just gave Star Platinum time-stop powers as well out of nowhere.This at most made the match a 50/50, and that's only if we ignore the fact that Dio's time stop powers were objectively better.
>>23498705they could have just used gundarium and it'd be even better at both of those things
>>23499175Assuming Luna titanium composite is better in the characteristics they were after, it was probably harder to get for an internal Titans-run program than other materials.Plus the machines were more tech demonstrators than intended as combat-ready anyway.
>>23496595>That stupid fucking comic where he gets surrounded by like 300 rebels and he turns on all their thermal detonators at once with the force? Bad,If this were anyone else, I would agree, but the point of Vader is that despite losing most of his limbs and being half burnt alive, he is still THAT powerful with the force that he doesn't NEED to move to get your ass.Also Luke moved a fucking black hole in the old Legends timeline. Vader pulling a Magneto with thermal detonators is a slap on the wrist.
>>23494813Pointless considering he gets superior gundams to pilot later on anyway.
