people don't watch shows, they just repeat what they heard somewhere or read the wiki

>>23531021
Tonal whiplash from Zeta's serious dark ending where they lost Kamille & Quattro in the Battle of the Gate of Zedan in the successful attempt to stop the Titans.

Then you get this rando kid who's trying to sell off the Zeta Gundam for spare parts.

>>23531067
>Tonal whiplash
This isn't a real thing btw.

>>23531067
>Tonal whiplash
Zeta's ending was exhausting. I found the change in tone very enjoyable.

It's just not very good. The bulk of the Z cast are quickly replaced with a new ensemble of characters who have much less going on to begin with and get much less development over the course of the series. Anything to do with Leina ends up being a big pointless runaround that goes nowhere. Glemmy is a woefully underdeveloped antagonist and very little is gained by having Neo Zeon splinter in two. The series trying to change course once they get to Earth and tone down the humour ends up causing friction in that last act, where it brings back characters like Mashymre and Chara to give them some resolution but they really don't fit in with the new style the show's adopted.
The whole thing just smacks of not having a strong vision behind it

>>23531021
because Judaus friends should have been executed for treason several times

still keep saying it, i wish ZZ was more down to earth (colony lol) longer and it's just Judau fighting off Neo-Zeon in the Z on Shangra la while trying to be a junk dealer and being forced into school by Leena. A more slice of life attempt at Gundam. (surprised this hasn't been done before) but it turns to Zeta 2 pretty fucking quick.

>>23531021
The first OP is dogshit which turns a lot of people off

>>23531196
NO! ANIME JA NAI ANIME JA NAI HONTO NO KOTO SA

I'm watching Zeta now. And if they change the whole cast in ZZ again, it would feel like the whole production was a mess

>>23531221
They don't. It's just a lot of characters die in Z. so..... also they put one of your favorite characters on a boat in ZZ, she gets better but she's no longer part of the main cast. It is really just mostly Bright babysitting a new cast of kids.

2/5ths of the show is slapstick bullshit
Character development is minimal, it forgets to even give its main antagonist any character
The whole show is a mess thanks to being totally rewritten partway through because CCA got greenlit

First half is better than the second.

>>23531021
Not entirely sure. Watched it the first time after a Zeta rewatch. The first episode was odd with the tone change, but I quickly started liking it as Zeta was very heavy for a long while beforehand. Also I liked how Bright was obviously burned out after fighting a war, losing a bunch of friends, and immediately having to fight another war. It made sense why he let people get away with what they did, especially Judau who reminded him of Kamile/Amuro due to Newtype stuff.
The show did get better as it went on, but I'm apparently strange in that I thought Moon Moon was the first better episode.
Also speaking of Moon Moon, I know a bunch of people really hate how Rasara died later, but after reading the corrected translation for the episode, it made way more sense and I actually liked the plot. It also hinted a bit more towards what happens with Newtypes in CCA. I'm actually curious how much of the rest of the translation is as-bad and if that is part of the reason for some oddities in the show.

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Please tell me they aren't in ZZ

>why is the thing the creator intentionally made as shit as possible as a giant fuck you to people who were asking for more hated?

I still think zombie/terminator Psycho MK II is one of the coolest things in the Gundam IP.

>>23531067
Had ZZ not been greenlit though, Zeta would have ended happier.

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I was really hoping this show was gonna be a bunch of rebellious punks having to buckle up and accept new responsibilities as they try to survive a war they never asked for. But In the end most of them just feel like they are more apathetic to the scenario than anything else. I remember the episode where Judau is finally starting to crumble under the weight of all the shit he's going through, and the rest of the cast feel completely unphased and totally interested in the story finally having some real drama, almost feeling like they are annoyed that Judau is taking the story seriously. This never really gets better and you end up with weird shit like Glemy being a lolicon pervert in-between what are supposed to be serious scenes, and the they barely squeeze in a story about Haman being a self destructive mess at the very end
Thankfully, I saw Dragonar shortly after ZZ and felt like it met my expectations I had created for ZZ much closer, with rebellious teen characters who knew when to get their shit in gear and a storyline that felt like it had a wild side (like the Gon Gem Mad Max shit) but understood how to take itself seriously too. If you want a contemporary late 80s Gundam fix, I feel Dragonar is much closer.

>>23531320
>Glemy being a lolicon pervert
Americans should stick to steven universe and other woke bullshit.

>>23531335
This is not an American perspective. Glemy is remembered for sneaking a peak up Leina's dress. This was after his role supposedly became more serious, too.

>>23531021
Because for a long time it wasn't really available in English to watch. So a lot of other people got their retarded opinion from bigger online retards like MAHQ who liked to spread false information. So for decades the idea stuck.

>>23531355
This is just a nonsense attempt at handwaving criticism
>for a long time it wasn't really available in English to watch
There have been Eng subs for ZZ since at least 2008
>So a lot of other people got their retarded opinion from bigger online retards like MAHQ who liked to spread false information
You can literally read people's issues with it ITT

>>23531021
Every Gundam is hated in order, until people stop being brainlets and start understanding them. ZZ is just 3rd in line.

>>23531366
>There have been Eng subs for ZZ since at least 2008
And they were awful
>You can literally read people's issues with it ITT
See above.

>>23531346
Glemy gets a pass because Leina is cute.

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>>23531168
I agree, but even the Zeta 2 was more slice-of-life than it was required to be.

>>23531369
>And they were awful
This is always the fucking excuse, "no it wasn't bad, the subs just weren't good enough!" Can you give any examples of what was actually wrong with them?
>See above
Go on then, point to 1 (O N E) bit of 'false information' ITT

I'm a huge ZZ appogist who will defend many things in this show that people hate, but the way they handled the Neo Zeon civil war was just not very good.

the obvious answer is that the first ten episodes are pretty bad and people drop it and then parrot online opinions.

The show is actually kino

>>23531379
That was basically scrapped in development. I also think the original plan of having Char instead of Glemy would've been worse. Char fucked up by being Quattro, there was no fixing that.

>>23531378
This is a good breakdown of 1 retarded translation issue. There are likely more. Please excuse the Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/tk06zz/comment/i1p6bjo/

>>23531258
>Character development is minimal
Honestly it's not a huge precedent considering every other Zeta character couldn't stop thinking with their junk.

>>23531386
I honestly just think the story should have gone full steam ahead with Haman as the singular Zeon leader.

>>23531067
"Whiplash" was needed after Zeta hammering in that newtypes can't do shit and nothing ever happens before & after Rosamia's death until the plot collapsed. Then Kamille loses his shit again like he did in the first episodes, giving it a book-end. The story was already wrapped several episodes before the actual ending.

I was always bummed Chara and Haman never really interact. They seem like oil and water, yet Chara was apparently a handpicked subordinate who received special treatment with her bottom bodyguards. I was really curious what Haman saw in her, and vice versa, considering Chara seemed more driven by impulse than actual ideals.

>>23531421
they're exactly the same

>yo we all know you're Char and you can get started being him again any time
>here's the last member of the zabi bloodline for you to breed
Why is Char such an incel?

>>23531305
It wouldn't. Tomino confirmed in an interview that he wanted to sling a dig at the "otakus" who were obsessed with Gundam. Hence why Kamille turned into a vegetable. This is 80s' Tomino, who still have personal issues & a vindictive view towards Gundam as some sort of albatross on his neck instead of a cultural milestone.

https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=12512

>>23531432
nta Tomino also said in another interview that Kamille had to pay a price for being too powerful

>>23531021
Mostly the first arcs being slapstick comedy. Personally I didn't mind the change of pace after the somber ending of the previous show, and it makes the drama parts more impactful. The Puru arc have some of my favorite episodes and interaction out of any Gundam shows I've seen this far. However, I do agree that the supporting cast is not very interesting. I know some people didn't like how half baked Glemy was as a villain but I'd argue that's something I could say about most Gundam villains I know, outside of Char and maybe Haman.

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>>23531432
>Tomino: For me, the Gundam universe isn’t sci-fi, it’s reality

because the best parts of zz are when kamille shows up and bright trys to fend off someone who wants him to cheat on his wife

>>23531435
Puru is cute and funny

>>23531444
emary probably would've lived if bright did it

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>>23531444
>>23531450
Noa men prefer blondes.

>>23531021
Because its extremely mid and ZZ fans are super sensitive about it being mid

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Just finished Zeta. What do I expect from ZZ? Is there some 3 fractions betraying each other all the time kino?

>>23531499
There's less politics and more meta.

>>23531499
No, all the politics get dropped for a pretty standart bad guy, its just zeon again

>>23531499
if you like zeta just watch the kamille eps in zz and then rewatch the whole series in a month

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>>23531505
>>23531510
>>23531516
Sad...
At least tell me that there are more of Haman's bitchy faces. I made so many screenshots of Haman's bitchy faces

I liked ZZ so much more than Z.

>>23531532
Kinda. Zeta Haman is peak Haman unfortunately.

>>23531532
im sure he has a clear view of her cameltoe

>>23531540
The whole Axis had the clear view of it.

no seriously, has there been a more "slice of life" attempt at gundam? you'd think one would be made by now.

>zoomers think ZZ is SoL
Kill me already.

>>23531532
There is more haman yes
>>23531683
Its no SOL it just has bad pacing

>>23531702
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the pacing, you just have ADHD.

>>23531709
I loved '79, Zeta and Victory, ZZ just has bad pacing and unfunny comedic relief

>>23531499
Zeta's politics are what a 12 year old would write.
>then the bad guys betrayed the other bad guys who were working with the good guys
ZZ has much better world building

>>23531532
Of the trillion things that made it shit, that's the biggest one. She's there but it's not even Haman anymore, her character didn't do a full 180º turn from what it was but about 165. Took the best character in UC and rewrote her to be shit, just like they did for the few other returning characters.
Yazan got it even worse but there's no such thing as a Yazanfag to complain about it. He went from being a main character serial killer to a Team Rocket buffoon

>>23531732
Delusionals ZZfag

>>23531683
>zoomer thinks SoL is a genre only and can't be just a narrative technique
Kill me already.

>>23531674
SD Gundam

>>23531742
Hamanfags are literal subhuman scum, your opinion is worthless.

>>23531751
ehhh not exactly what im looking for

>>23531221
The characters that survive Zeta are still around in ZZ
It's just that this is not a large percentage of Zeta's cast, without giving any specifics.

>>23531221
>>23531813
everyone except kamille, yazan and fa dies hope this helps sorry not sorry

>>23531827
and bright

>>23531827
Faggot

>>23531831
bright dies of shame after mirai pops out hathaway

>>23531834
also quattro bajeena dies in a tragic gold-plated gundam accident

>>23531827
Wrong, did you even watch the show?
yazan "retires" (pretty early on too)
Fa gets put on a boat to take care of Kamille.
Kamille looks to have recovered as one of the last scenes of ZZ is him running on the beach with Fa.
>>23531831
Bright doesn't die, he has a kid named Hathaway who's in CCA and in Hathaway's Flash (duh). Not a very happy ending for Hathaway though.

>>23531930
watch boku no reading comprehension

>>23531933
Yes and you said completely wrong things.

>>23531946
what does "except" mean in hindi? does anyone even speak english anymore

>>23531966
To be fair you did word it a bit weird.

>>23531067
>Tonal whiplash
I just started watching ZZ and I found this to be greatly overstated. You notice it, but it's not that big of a deal.

>>23532064
Yeah it's something youtubers say to look smarter than they are.

>>23532071
>>23532064
it's really the first 3 episodes which is what the fuck i mean again you're coming from zeta's finale.

>>23531930
>Hathaway doesn't get a happy ending THOUGH :'(
Well deserved, team-killing bitch

>>23531067
Zeta Gundam is a toy commercial made to sell plastic to children and nerds and cash in on a super-popular TV show and movie series.

>>23531930
>Not a very happy ending for Hathaway though
He shouldn't have been allowed to survive CCA in the first place.

>>23531747
Jamitov's motives are unexplained
the Federation is just largely out of the picture
How in the hell can the AEUG be a Federation politician?
Char can address the Federation congress and not get detained!?
Titans can just beat up Bright, a Federation hero of the one year war.
There are so many unexplained and nonsensical details in Zeta, it is ridiculous.

>>23532281
*can the AEUG leader be a Federation politician.

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>>23532281
>Jamitov's motives

>>23531210
That was the whole point of it. Tomino was looking to be post-ironic.

>>23532281
Youre a retard, but what can you expect from a ZZ brainelt
Try the paying attentiom to the show next time you watch it

>>23531732
>Zeta's politics are what a 12 year old would write.
lol no. Are you crazy?

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>>23531742
>He went from being a main character serial killer to a Team Rocket buffoon
imao. Yazan was so based in zeta.

>>23531768
Did a hamanfag scat in your fruity pebbles? Shut your dumb bitch ass up!

>>23532210
You're retarded zetarager. Since you're a clownish zetahater, your opinion is worthless.

>>23532281
This is one of the most interesting examples of media speedwatching or just poor watching comprehension. Jesus. Dumbass.

>third worlders wake up
>bunch of anti zz posts pop up
hmm

>>23532483
>be you, can't question the quality of political intrigue in a cartoon
>calls other retards

trying to defend bad writing with insults, makes it look worse. Those were specific questions and if Zeta's defenders can't provide a sensible explanation it means there isn't one.

Zeta's writing is so garbage. The Rosamia/Rosammy plotline? What was that bullshit?

>>23531021
I finished it recently, it's just that the middle is boring. I really struggled, at least the final few episodes were better than the middle with action and stuff.
Char's Counterattack was really good though.

>>23532758
Niggaboo all of the things you mentioned have easy explanations if you just lay attention instead of a watching the show at 2x speed, Jamitov was a greedy man who wanted more power and was using the titans to further his standing, the federation was always incompetent, even in 79, Zeta just has them mostly subservient to the more aggŕesive titans, of course Char is allowed to speak as a political figure, hes the son of Zeon Zum Deikun, his name alone holds power

>>23532879
His name has power with the people that the Federation had barely stopped in a genocidal war.
Fixed it for you, the Federation should have wanted to arrest him. Every one of those politicians likely lost friends/family to a country created by his father.

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Haman's character arc in ZZ is trash because her character arc makes almost zero sense without Char.

I am not saying she has to be a crazy ex-girlfriend, he could come back and she could be over him and legit try and kill him, but to not give the arc between her and Char any actual closure, and just have Haman kinda pining in limbo and suffer a civil war with a literal who after she already won for Zeon, really just ruins a lot of her character for me.

>>23533055
Haman is still obsessed with Char in ZZ though? It probably isn't a coincidence that the age gap between her and Char and her and Judau is exactly the same (7 years)

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>>23533055
she has a more fleshed out character in ZZ. We get to see her as a leader and how she deals with the politics of commanding Neo Zeon, and dealing with the Earth Federation, and we get to see some of her non-Char related motives.


and her sexy supreme commander uniform

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>>23533133
Woah there, more screen time doesn't always mean more fleshed out.

Now that I think about it Haman's character arc is a lot like Char's where they go from badass to completely pathetic person on a suicide mission. I get it, but it seems so weakly done and kinda wishy washy compared to what Char himself got. Committing suicide after realizing the love of your life was an absolute fraud and you can't even score with a 14 year old is a hell of a way to go.

>>23531411
>Haman as the singular Zeon leader.
Haman being the Puru's mother figure would have been way better than whatever the fuck they were doing with Glemy.

>>23531067
>"tonal whiplash"
>comparing the final battle to the introduction of a new series with another protagonist who isnt even in the same situation as the predecessors to begin with
some people on this board try way too hard

>>23531302
The fight with Psycho MK II in ZZ is the only good Psycho fight in the entire franchise. Why they hate my boy so much I don't know but thank you Ple 2

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>>23533141
I love the idea of Hamom.

>>23531386
This is bullshit. Char was supposed to he his own faction in ZZ but Glemy replacing him is headcanon there is no reference to this aanywhere. Glemy as a character is meant to represent the Zabi loyalists, as Gihren's loser bastard son. The sort of villain who could never succeed but can still cause all sorts of harm with his delusions. He is not a CHAR.

>>23533149
That's actually a good point. Both the Zeta fights have them piloted by confused, irrational victims and the pilot from GQuuuuuux became one of those too once they sensed Lalah waking up.
Puru Two was the only one who kept it together.

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Watched first ten episodes so there are some thoughts.
I don't mind the tone changing. Not all colonies are involved in the war directly and some of them are just busy about their own survival. Seeing the unique city was really nice. But it also causes some issues
1) Deaths are taken too light heartedly like fat fuck was killed because he losy his balance.
2) it affects established characters in a bad way. Fa is absolutely useless in the battle. Bright looks like parady to himself.
Besides that I relly liked how THE GANG used differemt tricks to fight instead of defeating everyone in the battle.
Overall it's enjoyable but I can't say much for now
Roux is cool and cute. She has really good potential to become the best love interest.

>>23533234
Fa is out of it as she is obviously off kilter due to Kamile's state. One of the reasons she leaves.
Bright is burnt out as a bunch of his friends just died to end a war, and now he has to fight a second one right away. That's why he just stops caring about military discipline as long as shit is going the right way.
Combat flow is way more interesting in ZZ than Zeta. The Earth arc has some of the best Earth combat in a main Gundam series.
Roux is best girl. I wish the Zeta Ver Ka came with her as an alternate pilot for inside.

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>>23533141
>whatever the fuck they were doing with Glemy.
I actually like what the writers did with Glemy by the end. He starts out as a willing underling to Haman and Neo Zeon, but after a while and time spent on earth, he becomes another Gihren Zabi, right down to making weapons out of Newtypes the same way Gihren made Solar space lasers. Not to mention the scenes of him fully showing off his true/new colors look creepy. What sells it for me is that he does not break eye contact with Ple Two the whole time he is looking at her, despite her not having any clothes on, and only stops doing that to tell her to put on clothes.

Zeta loves to show asses

>>23533154
Haman is exactly the kind of woman would abort her own fetus if she thinks it's no use for her

>>23533285
He never feels threatening or ambitious. And even after he has his 'sinster' turn, he's acting like a flirtatious weirdo, just with Leina instead of Roux. I was never convinced he was suited for his role, and his final freakout with backseat driving with Puru Two sealed my mental image of him. He's just kind of a lame kid, dividing focus in a story that needed to consolidate that focus badly.

>>23533430
I mean that's exactly what the Ples are for.

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>>23533430
She told me she was on birth control for PCOS.

>>23532693
>hamanfag brings up scat
Thanks for confirming my point.

>>23533489
>even after he has his 'sinster' turn, he's acting like a flirtatious weirdo, just with Leina instead of Roux
I remember Leina being "dead" (she's fine, guys, that MS blowing up on her only knocked her out) by the time he turned and wanted to kill Haman and take Zeon for himself. I disagree with him not feeling threatening, mostly because his actions lead to the death of 2 different Zeon aces and cause trouble for everyone involved. Doesn't help that one of them was caused after he died because the remaining (at the time) Purus were still doing his will. I do agree, the story should have consolidated his part of the plot more and given a bit more focus to it tho.

>>23531532
>>23531540
>>23531430
If I were Char things would've gone down a whole lot differently. Haman would've had my seed dumped in her womb, on the regular, and she'd be to exhausted from getting bread to be bitchy and genocidal.

>>23533595
>If I were Char
lol, lma0
if you were char you be thinking about lalah and amur 24/7

>>23531432
Is this interview before or after the one where he said they only killed off half the cast and knocked Kamille retarded in order to make room for the new ZZ cast.

>>23531023
>>23531082
seethe more ZZ tranny

>>23533508
Liar. You were never an engineer.

>>23532716
>>bunch of anti zz posts pop up
>a bunch
Literally where? You need meds.

>>23532758
Retard being a retard. in the first place, there's plenty of threads in the past that provide great counter arguments that prove how retarded & slow you are watching this show.

>>23533049
>the Federation should have wanted to arrest him. Every one of those politicians likely lost friends/family to a country created by his father.
>likely

Not him but that's not a very convincing argument. You are very incompetent at describing an issue at all with zeta.

>>23533137
poor haman, can't catch a break

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>>23533595
>If I were Char
Shut up

I think ZZ wouldn’t have its bad rep in the west if it got a proper English dub back when they made one for 79 and Z.

Mashymre and Chara were cool characters. Actually felt pretty bad when they did die.

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>>23533595

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I love how in UC Engage Scirocco seems like he is only here because he wants to watch Char and Haman have sex. What is even funnier is that is perfectly acceptable character motivation for Scirocco to have.

>the bomb case episode
Is that another tonal whiplash at this point?