>>23549941
Average. Passable. Not exceptional but good enough.

The GM-III on average was better, but less cost-effective. By F91 however it was an antique.

>>23550121
>The GM III was on average better
Says fucking who? I've never seen this suggested before.

>>23550131
Probably bait. The Jegan is literally the EFF taking the GMIII to Anaheim and going "we're out of ideas on how to make this fucking thing better, please help"

>>23550167
Alot of GM-IIIs were just upgraded GM-IIs, I'm sure their initial cost was cheaper per unit but Jegans were a much more modular platform that could fill multiple roles like EWAC, special forces, nuclear strike, heavy armor, etc.

>>23550303
And a lot of GM II's were upgraded RGM-79s as well. Real ship of Theseus shit.

>>23550131
Nobody says FUCK YEAH GM-III guy

It was decent, cheap, easy to maintain, and could use various equipment. It performs well during CCA and is generally evenly matched with the Geara Doga. The D-Type also scored kills every now and again during Unicorn. They started struggling during the Mars Zeon conflict though, and the Heavygun was essentially a smaller Jegan.

>>23550131
the only people who say that are the armchair autists who look at the original specs given for the CCA jegans and don't like that it technically has fewer missile pods than the GM III and lower acceleration (thrust-to-mass ratio), they're intentionally ignoring that the GM III was at the end of its useful life as a OYW-era frame, the GM III was fitted with the shoulder and hip missile pods as a cope to try to keep it in service longer by giving it area saturation and anti-ship rockets for lots of cheap firepower but kinda bad for anti-MS combat

jegan was at the start of its life and designed as a lightweight agile MS for dogfighting, it had room for upgrades. literally 3 fucking years later you have the F91 jegans that sport hugely upgraded specs over the CCA jegans but all the armchair autists can see is that they get BTFO by the superior crossbone vanguard models so they still look like shitty MS in their eyes

>>23550303
>Jegans were a much more modular platform that could fill multiple roles like EWAC, special forces, nuclear strike, heavy armor, etc.
GM versions of those roles also existed I'm sure, but they had to specifically build out a model for it. there's a huge number of GM specializations but fewer for the Jegan since after the OYW they just stopped making as many variants and unit performance was generally better. e.g., there's a GM sniper but not really an equivalent "jegan sniper" since they can just hand a mega bazooka launcher or a hyper mega launcher to an ECOAS jegan to do the same thing. there's some full armor GM types like the bulldog GM III, but the jegan didn't really receive a full armor type, the closest one was maybe the stark jegan but it's just not the same

>>23550415
>generally evenly matched with the Geara Doga
That's not praise, char cheaped out hard on the geara doga. It's a piece of shit. A really cool looking one, but the GD was not a very good machine.

>>23550478
It'd seem bizarre to me if Londo Bell had chosen the worse Jegan over the apparently superior GM III. Londo Bell is a smaller task force than it needs to be and don't have Titans type resources, but it always seemed implied to me that they still got their pick of equipment in CCA since they're actually expected to fight Zeon remnants.
Why the hell would they be kitted out with new production Jegans if the GM III, which has been around for longer and presumably exists in larger quantities as a result, is the better suit?
Even just going strictly by their first appearance it seems inconsistent with what's on-screen.

>>23550478
specsfags are the absolutely worst

>>23550496
Specsfagging just makes no sense to me when the average OYW era Minovsky reactor supposedly has less power output than the engine of a modern MBT. The supposed numbers suck and have always sucked, and don't correspond with how things are portrayed on-screen or anywhere else.

>>23550501
>he doesn't realize that MBTs all have secret loto style transformations and beam weapons
Don't tell them I told you

>>23550483
>That's not praise, char cheaped out hard on the geara doga. It's a piece of shit. A really cool looking one, but the GD was not a very good machine.
It's the Toyota Camry of mobile suits in the early UC 0090s. Geara Doga does the job well, easy to maintain, easy to customize, affordable, and no fancy frills. Char gave his troops *exactly* what they needed and nothing more. It was a solid suit that matched well against the original Jegan suits of the Federation.

The real POS was the Geara Zulu. It was supposed to be an "upgrade" to the Geara Doga. But The databooks say that the Geara Zulu fell short of performance expectations that Anaheim Electronics expected during tests. The databooks don't say exactly why but it does say, "Compared to the Geara Doga, the Geara Zulu had a lot of design and performance shortcomings".

Rather than scrapping the project, Anaheim Electronics still wanted to make use of the Zulus, and gave/discount sold the Zulus suits to the Sleeves for cheap. However the new Geara Zulus struggled and underperformed against Jegans that had only minor upgrades since the events of Char's Counterattack.

>>23550490
>but it always seemed implied to me that they still got their pick of equipment in CCA since they're actually expected to fight Zeon remnants.
If you take CCA is vacuum sure, but intentionally picking the Re-GZ for Amuro with all the other insane shit around at the time is downright bizarre.

>>23550807
>If you take CCA is vacuum sure, but intentionally picking the Re-GZ for Amuro with all the other insane shit around at the time is downright bizarre.
Yeah, because none of the other insane shit was written at the time. You have to take CCA in a vacuum because otherwise you've got 35 years of bullshit never conceived of muddying it.

>>23550809
Eh, even at the time you had a bunch of Z and ZZ related MSV stuff that seem like they should outperform the ReGZ. And older MSVs had cameos in Zeta, so it's like people would look at them as non-canon.

>>23550836
There's tiers of canon, anon. Some MSV suits being in the background of the attack on Jaburo doesn't mean that Tomino and co were suddenly treating all those publications as primary sources for their setting going forwards and letting them guide or limit their own creative choices.

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>>23550323
>FUCK YEAH GM-III!

>>23550478
The specs don't line up with the actual databook statements, which goes to show how terrible those old books like Entertainment Bible were. The Jegan is repeatedly said, including in sources that don't necessarily list those low thrust figures, that it's as maneuverable as high-maneuverability MS from the Gryps era. So it's safe to say it's vaguely somewhere between the Mk-II and Zeta.

>>23551017
>The specs don't line up with the actual databook statements, which goes to show how terrible those old books like Entertainment Bible were.
As always, the specs just never made sense since the people making it up apparently never consulted any prior work. 0080 (1989) came out the year after CCA (1988) came out, but if you take it at face value, they mean the 0080 Gelgoog can run circles around the Geara Doga and that the Sazabi has both less total thrust and weaker individual thruster engines than that 13 year old MS.

>>23550483
>That's not praise, char cheaped out hard on the geara doga. It's a piece of shit. A really cool looking one, but the GD was not a very good machine.

If you can MORE units but still match the performance of the Federation's latest mobile suit, then that's a win.

Your logic is completely wrong.

>>23550490
>Why the hell would they be kitted out with new production Jegans if the GM III, which has been around for longer and presumably exists in larger quantities as a result, is the better suit?

Because the GM III was a much older model (based on a 14 year old design) that has been uograded repeatedly. And it can't be upgraded any further. It's reached its design limits. It's like the German Panzer IV tank during World War 2. Solid, reliable, but old and the frame can't take anymore upgrades. The engine and weight have reached the limits of the frame can hold. The Germans recognized this and built newer tanks like the Panther to replace it.

There will NOT be a GM IV. The frame can't handle it. The GM III was already pushing the limits of what the GM frame could handle with upgrades. It was already a miracle the GM III was made to begin with. GM III was built out of necessity because the Federation needed something quickly to replace losses from The Gryps war, and to replace Titans suits that were getting retired. GM III was a necessary rush job, and half the suit (the backpack) had to be replaced, and awkward add-ons (like the weird giant knee pad thrusters) just to get the GM III's performance to acceptable standards.

The Jegan was supposed to be a cheap new platform (not just a new mobile suit). A design that is updated and would last the Federation for years to come. Sure the most advanced and expensive GM III models *might* edge out the early model Jegans in some areas. But that's not the point. The GM III is old. It needs to be replaced sooner or later.

>>23551643
I understand that the original GM family was at the limit of its usefulness before you're committing to a ground-up new design anyway, I just dispute the suggestion that the GM III has an edge anyway.
And I say this as a GM III appreciator, I must add. I'm just also a Jegan appreciator.

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>>23550490
>>23550807
>>23551017
Forget the GM III or Jegan. The Nemo won the Gryps War and defeated the Titans. It makes no sense why it was abandoned. It was a war winner. We should have gotten Nemo II and Nemo III during CCA.

>>23551659
Expensive, and the Federation was already looking at true next-gen models like the Nero, then Jedah/Jegan. The Nero is just a straight up budgetified cancelled Gundam project.

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>>23550121
Correct, regardless of how much Jegan fags seethe.

>can mount any piece of additional equipment that every past GM could, including TTT parts
>such an easy platform that it can even mount Jegan parts and have performance on par with the Heavyguns, years after being rolled out

The true work horse of the feds.

>>23549941
>Limited parts compatibility with the ReGZ
>Limited parts compatibility with the ReZELs
>Refinement of the lightweight and agile school of right that the various ace Titans suits espoused and lessons learned from watching Scirocco at work

Yeah, the reason the Jegan is good isn't just because of the bare specs. It's good because it meet our exceeded the GM III while it set up a new baseline supply chain based on its entire capability, the same as the GM did decades prior. Ways are won based on logistics*
* Newtype bullshit aside, that's why you do newtype logistics as well.

>>23550483
>>23551624
It's in this weird area where you have to give it praise for it being good enough to match the Jegans with Char's limited resources, but also it's notably worse than some of the MPs used by Haman's Zeon. I think the philosophy of "don't get hit" is something fine to follow, but having the armor being so weak to the point repeated hits from basic vulcans is enough to tear the arm away is when you need to reconsider things on the drawing board, especially when you don't have as many soldiers as previous Zeon movements.

>>23550312
There's a chance one of the GMIIIs that pushed back the Axis Shock also fought Char at Jaburo

>>23551659
>>23551682
also apparently the jegan claims lineage from the nemo but I don't really see it

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If you want to talk about underperforming grunts let's talk about this piece of garbage

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>>23551897
that one at least gets to kill some enemies when it was introduced, origin makes it impossible for me to believe the Feds won the war with the GM when the origin GM does nothing but eat shit 99% of the time onscreen

>>23551864
>it's notably worse than some of the MPs used by Haman's Zeon

I'm assuming you mean Gaza series? Because that's what was Haman mass produced for regular pilots. Geara Doga is better than Gaza series. The other more high end suits were only made for elite troops. Those were limited in number.

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>>23551864
Char chose not to have dozens of different suits.

- Grunts get the Geara Doga.
- Ace Grunts get custom Geara Dogam
- Newtypes get Jagd Doga
- Super Newtypes get Alpha Azieru

Alpha Azieru stomps everything Haman's Zeon faction used.

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>>23551938
>Alpha Azieru stomps everything Haman's Zeon faction used.
It can't stomp anything, but the Quin Mantha can.

>>23551883
It's the colour. And maybe all the extra shoulder RCS.

>>23551938
Mogged by a Doven Wolves desu

>>23551659
>>23551973
According to the manual and >>23551682, it's expensive. During the war, it used both the Hyaku Shiki and the Rick Dias frame during the later stages, which wasn't really feasible for an MP unit. The Jegan basically simplified it so the parts could be more interchangable and be easier to maintained.


>>23551926
I'm pretty sure they're way better than Gazas, especially the C-series which broke apart if you transformed too much. I remember the Zaku III and Dreissen series being mass produced while stuff like the Doven Wolf and Bawoo (MP) were still reserved for commanders.

>>23551938
Yeah, I'm pretty sure all the NT stuff were massive step ups from Haman's stuff.

Too many people are obsessed and blinded hy the beam spam of Haman's Axis Neo Zeon suits.

All that matters is power and precision.

That's why CCA era Amuro piloting a single fully loaded Geara Doga could probably kill every single Axis suit. Imagine Amuro flying in during the final battles of ZZ Gundam. He's boosting around and one shoting all Axis suits and avoiding all the beams. Zaku III, Doven Wolf, Quinn Mantha...none of them matter. They can't hit Amuro. And he one shots them all to the cockpit with a Geara Doga.

That's the difference.

>>23552130
How come you didn't post the fat haman?

>>23551998
>According to the manual and >>23551682, it's expensive. During the war, it used both the Hyaku Shiki and the Rick Dias frame during the later stages, which wasn't really feasible for an MP unit. The Jegan basically simplified it so the parts could be more interchangable and be easier to maintained.
No, it didn't really use Hyaku Shiki and especially Rick Dias frame, nor it is the reason as to why Nemo is expensive.
It's quite literally just the cost of full Gundarium armor.
>I remember the Zaku III and Dreissen series being mass produced while stuff like the Doven Wolf and Bawoo (MP) were still reserved for commanders.
Other way around, Doven Wolf and Bawoo were intended for mass-production, while Zaku III and Dreissen were produced for symbolic reasons, and it was an awful decision by Axis that likely costed them the war. As they ran out of production capability they had to purchase Hizacks, Marasais and Diases, as well as upgrade old Gelgoogs to bolster their forces.

>>23552141
>As they ran out of production capability
Do you mean their factories were running at full speed but couldn't keep up with the demands of war? Or do you mean they ran out of resources and couldn't make more suits?

>>23552197
Whichever works better against your next followup

>>23552141
>No, it didn't really use Hyaku Shiki and especially Rick Dias frame, nor it is the reason as to why Nemo is expensive.
It seems to be at least a frame based on both of them rather than completely taking each of them. The Gundarium definetely plays a major role though, I'll agree with that. Especially since the cost-performance ratio can't keep up with how expensive Gundarium is compared to Titanium Alloy. 「ネモは事実上、百式の直系に当たる。設計母体となったリック・ディアス以降の開発計画におけるMSのコンセプトに、連邦系の構造を導入した百式で得られたムーバブル・フレームの開発データを融合させ、量産機としての(コスト込みの)スペックを盛り込んだ機体なのである。」(MGネモインスト)
>As they ran out of production capability they had to purchase Hizacks, Marasais and Diases
I remember the Schrzum Diases being used, as well as cameos from the other two. I thought there were more Dreissens at least, since they seemed to be common during the Dublin Drop Operation.

>>23552197
They probably ran out of resources around the end, especially making so many one-offs and the limited production Quebelys. The Civil War absolutely did not help by splitting forces even further.

>>23552238
NTA but more than buying new production Hizacks it always struck me as more likely that most of them were either captured from abandoned/overrun Titans installations or brought with them by Titans defectors that folded in with Axis Zeon rather than face the consequences of returning to the EFF.

>>23551938
The geymalk was superior.

Is there an ersatz Jegan F71 anywhere in F91 lore? that would be pretty cool I guess.

>>23552268
You mean operating the F71 without the cannons as a general purpose MS instead of fire support?

>>23552271
Jegan with shoulder machine cannons or the magna cannons

>>23551922
Origin is Zeonwank fanfiction. The way the GMs stumble around like drunk toddlers with supersoakers.

>>23552266
Alpha Azieru is what happens when Zeon stops trying to make mobile suits and just builds the final boss. Geymalk is what happens when you let a over-caffeinated engineer over-customize a Zaku III, and he tells everyone it’s good for Newtypes.

>>23552263
>most of them were either captured from abandoned/overrun Titans installations or brought with them by Titans defectors that folded in with Axis Zeon rather than face the consequences of returning to the EFF.
There's the feeling I got as well. There's no way Neo Zeon was actually going to PAY for old Hizacks, Gelgoogs, and Barzams.

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>>23552273
Sorry, lore-wise there don't seem to be a lot of support fire Jegans except for the Jegan heavy equipment type or something else like the Jeda cannon. I whipped up a quick and dirty shop job for you

>>23552281
>fuck huge target that doesn't even have an i field
>dies to fucking grenades besides
It's like the geara doga, it looks imposing but its made of tissue paper. Dogshit ass unit.

>>23552286
It's in much the same way that when we see Zaku IIs a few times in Axis Zeon service in ZZ, our first thought probably isn't 'Axis Zeon must be making new Zaku IIs' so much as 'Axis Zeon probably still has a pile of Zaku IIs'.

>>23552289
Alpha Azieru was coated in Anti-beam coating. Like how Hyaku Shiki was.

>>23552295
totally in character for char to cheap out and order the base model with no I-field

>>23552298
When did Gundam fans get so spoiled that they demand an I-field for all mobile armors? Plenty of Zeon mobile armors don't have an I-field like the Zeong or the Braw Bro.

>>23552238
>It seems to be at least a frame based on both of them rather than completely taking each of them.
I'd imagine that would refer to Nemo's version of movable frame, which might've referenced Anaheim's earlier block build technology used in Rick Dias and Zeta prototypes, as well as movable frame of Delta Gundam/Hyaku-Shiki, which was being developed around the same time.

>>23549941
Always thought this color looked like those chinese plastic toys of really low quality.

>>23552295
>>23552313
When Geymalk came with its own magic beam proof force field you hack

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>>23551938
ALSO they still had enough money/resources left over to build this thing...somehow.

>>23552130
God I hate how this fanbase sucks off Amuro and Char nonstop. Actively detrimental to the franchise as a whole.

>>23553249
This was explained in the lore as Neo Zeong getting two for free because it was a design "Beyond The Time". Whatever the fuck that means.

>>23553352
That explains it's engineering, not it being a gigantic resource drain as the two of them are the biggest piles of psychoframe in the setting.

>>23553405
>Char could have equipped Psychoframe to every single Geara Doga in Neo Zeon and probably had some kind of mass-Newtype hivemind directing his army like fuckass Battle Meditation
>Full Frontal could have done the same
>Instead they conspired to build a Final Boss-looking Dipshit Machine that exists to go out of control and cause devastation far beyond their intentions if left unchecked
>TWICE.
I could write an award-winning trilogy of novels exclusively about how much I fucking hate Fukui's writing.

>>23551938
Was this thing even designed to be more than a distraction? It doesn't even have an I-field.

>>23553449
Remember that Alpha Azieru was an ultra high speed mobile armor. It was faster than Nu Gundam. Unlike something like Big Zam, Psycho Gundam, or Quinn Mantha. All of which were slow moving benemoths.

>>23553433
>>Char could have equipped Psychoframe to every single Geara Doga in Neo Zeon and probably had some kind of mass-Newtype hivemind directing his army like fuckass Battle Meditation
Zeon doesn't have the power of friendship required for that, they'd all fragment and catfight like Haman did when Kamille saw her newtype insta.

>>23553249
Considering how Neo Zeon tends to live in active heavy duty asteroid mine places like Axis or Palau, they probably have no shortage of actual mineral resources and money. What they probably lack is actual industrial capacity after losing Axis and Moussa. Luckily Anaheim is a complete whore of a company and will do anything for money or kicks.

>>23550131
GMIII is a FAT PIG WHO SPREADS HER LEGS FOR ANY PILOT

>>23554100
I have it on good authority that it's god damn Zakus that maneuver like a pig.

>>23554075
I never understand how Zeon had less industrial capacity than the Federation. Zeon factories are right next to their mining facilities and mining asteroids. Zeon has unlimited mining resources and there's zero lag time transported resources between areas. Not to mention Zeon factories are in a Zero G environment. So they aren't limited by gravity and what can be launched into space. Massive ships, mobile armors, and mobile suits can be constructed in a 3D weightless environment. Things that could never be built on Earth and launched into space.

Meanwhile the Federation is spread across the Earth. They need to mine the resources in Odessa, refine it, Transport them by sea, travel the ocean over 1 to 2 weeks, dock with Jaburo in secret, transport the resources to hidden factories, the GMs get built in a gravity environment, and the Federation needs to launch it into space via rockets which means they can't build things too heavy.

>>23554155
Lower population, I suppose? Gundam is consistently bad at guessing how much better manufacturing techniques, automation, and computers were going to get.

>>23554155
So attempts to reconcile all the GM variants have floated the idea that a bunch of different factories got the data package and made their own variants of it, a little like how WW2 era Soviet production worked. Some of those facilities were remaining space installations, some were Earth, some were remaining colony holdings. So more than a single production line fed by a single massive supply chain you had multiple of them leveraging whatever they could get their hands on to crank suits out.
I'd also make the point that Zeon is going to be at a crippling manpower disadvantage no matter what. Their overall capacity to exploit those easier to access resources is lower than if the Federation had them, and they very clearly still felt like they needed resources from Earth in addition to what they had in space. Their procurement process is also very Nazi Germany, and the Nazis were not particularly wise with how they employed their already limited resources.

>>23554176
Didn't Zeon pretty make take over half of the Federation's production capacity? Zeon took California Base which is also a massive favtory military base. IIRC, That's how they were pumping out all those Earth based mobile suits like Gouf, Acguy, Z'Gok, etc.

>>23554176
>>23554219
It's also stated that M'queve shipped a decade worth of supplies out of Odessa into space before it fell

>>23554219
Yeah but you still need people to work the lines and supply chains to feed them. Having the factory is one thing, having the means to have it cranking shit out at full capacity is another. Even if you capture the workers, ask the Germans how well production lines ran when they were being run in occupied France, or staffed with forced labor from POW and concentration camps.
Some people will see the new boss much the same as the old boss, others will find ways to deniably fuck up as much as possible.

>>23554239
I recall some parts of the Earth defected to Zeon during the war. Like New Yark. Couldn't Zeon pull workers from the local loyal populations? Pay them in money or food. It's a very common in war.

Regarding slaves...WW2 Germany messed up because they trusted slave labor to make complex items like tanks and airplanes. Huge mistake and so much room for sabotage. Typically, you don't do that. You put slave labor on non-critical items like producing clothing, military uniforms, boots, farming food, mining raw materials, etc. OR you use slave labor for huge manual construction projects like massive buildings, concrete bomb shelters, digging trenches, etc. Things that can't be sabotaged. Basically you use slave labor to handle non-critical production in order to "free up" your trusted workers to work on more complex things. Germany messed up so bad. I don't understand this.


The fact that I hear WW2 stories like the Battle of Stalingrad where German soldiers didn't have enough winter clothes is infuriating to me. Germany could have used the entire country of France to produce winter clothing and ship them to the front lines. But they didn't do that. Why? Because the history books say they didn't trust France or the French workers. They wanted to keep French factories closed. Wtf? Germany didn't trust French workers to make items, but trusted SLAVE LABOR to make important planes and tanks? Things that could be sabotaged easily. Huh??? Make that make sense.

Sorry I went on a tangent since you mentioned WW2 production.

>>23554313
Depending on how skilled the labor involved is, the OYW was so absurdly fast that a lot of technical roles would've barely had time to even train new workers from the population under occupation.
Then there's also the difficulty of learning how to integrate someone else's industrial capacity into your own. There's a reason that when the Germans did keep arms factories in occupied countries open, they kept them producing the local arms they were already tooled up for rather than trying to start making French MG42s.
Zeon trying to bring their people in, retain who they could who already knew how to use the factories, reconfigure supply chains, then adapt the EFF equipment to Zeon designs or Zeon designs to EFF equipment is a lot of work. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but to go back to the WW2 well, the project to clone the B-29 as the Tu-4 was an immense undertaking, not just to document and understand the original design but to adapt it to the available supplies, tooling and technology of the Soviet Union.
Zeon also captured those facilities fairly early, so they wouldn't have even been properly outfitted as mobile suit factories the same way those involved in GM production were.

>>23554313
bro you can sabotage ANYTHING especially when they can't inspect 100% of the goods

slave laborers would poorly assemble together items that held together long enough to look normal to pass eye inspection but fucking fall apart when subjected to the stress of war, like winter boots with shit stitching and uneven glue that come apart after being worn for a couple of days.

when all able-bodied adults are conscripted for the fighting, you can get away with all kinds of shit. not every factory line manager is some kind of patriotic autist who demands to inspect everything, also consider that some factory guards are shitty soldiers or idiots who couldn't hack it in a real combat unit so they get relegated to support and rear-line roles, they sure as fuck wouldn't be filled by top-rate soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163_Komet
>Me 163B, Werknummer 191 095
>During the aircraft's restoration in Canada it was discovered that the aircraft had been assembled by French forced laborers who had deliberately sabotaged it by placing stones between the rocket's fuel tanks and its supporting straps. There are also indications that the wing was assembled with contaminated glue.

like literally how the fuck are they supposed to discover that without disassembling the finished aircraft and stress-testing it? are they gonna do that for every piece of gear when they're manufacturing socks, guns, bullets, planes and everything by the thousands?

>>23549941
Jegan? MORE LIKE MASS PRODUCTION GUNDAM MKII!

>>23554416
That would be Jeddah. Jegan is more like discount Barzam.

>>23554405
You can sabotage some of the items. But you can't sabotage them all. And sabotaging clothing is very minor. Because they would get replacement.

France has some disgruntled saboteurs but some of the country actually collaborated with the Germans. When the war was over, the collaboraters were harshly punished by the public. From the workers, factory owners, and even to the women who had German soldier boyfriends. They women were dragged out of their homes, some were beaten, mocked, stripped of clothing, and had their hair forcibly shaved off and cut off.

>>23554472
sabotaging literally everything is a surefire way to get caught and executed

>>23554489
Exactly. Sabotage is very risky and most civilians just want to live peacefully. Not many will resist if the winning side doesn't harm them. What's ironic is that France actually got off quite well compared to what the Germans did in the East to the Soviets. Germany didn't actually do any destruction to France's infrastructure. They didn't blow up the Eiffel Tower or build giant statues.

Similarly, characters talk about Zeon "oppression" on civilians like it was this terrible thing during the One Year War, but we never actually saw it in the TV show. In 0079, we saw Zeon troops air dropping food and supplies to hungry civilians. In 08th MS Team, the Zeon troops generally left villages alone. I didn't see bloodthirsty Zeon soldiers. In Zeta, the Titans seemed far more brutal on the civilians. Neo Zeon literally shows up and AEUG literally promises to give Side 3 to Neo Zeon if they help. And then of course there's Gundam Unicorn where apparently Federation troops went crazy and went all "rape of nanking" on peaceful villages. The Federation troops pillaged villages and towns.

I'm not saying Zeon is good. But oh man...the anime not actually show us Zeon oppressing civilians in the streets. The Federation and Titans were far worse.

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>>23554600
Cities, not villages.

>>23554155
>I never understand how Zeon had less industrial capacity than the Federation. Zeon factories are right next to their mining facilities and mining asteroids. Zeon has unlimited mining resources and there's zero lag time transported resources between areas. Not to mention Zeon factories are in a Zero G environment. So they aren't limited by gravity and what can be launched into space. Massive ships, mobile armors, and mobile suits can be constructed in a 3D weightless environment. Things that could never be built on Earth and launched into space.

They had 1/10th the population of the Earth Federation and genociding 5 billion people in the first week of the OYW tend to kill whatever goodwill and sympathy the other Sides might have towards Spacenoid independence. To compare, WW2 only had total 70-85 million deaths, or thereabouts a measly 3% of the total population of Earth at the time.

Zeon doesn't have "unlimited mining resources" because asteroids take time and manpower to tow into Side 3, let alone mine. And that's not even factoring into how vacuum and zero-G manufacturing makes 10x everything more deadly for the factory workers because the OYW doesn't have force fields from having your ships & the construction crew making it be pelted by stray debris the size of your fingernails with the kinetic force of frag grenades.

>>23554600
Don't forget the 08th ms team novels, the feddies are rapists by nature.

>>23553352
The Neo-Zeong getting tech from "beyond the time" is just a in-universe rumor. It's also stated in gunpla manuals that the tech for its dumbplot psycho-shart generator came from data sold to NZ from AE on the Unicorn's first psychoframe tests, where psycho shards were first observed. NZ decided to make a device that primarily focused on producing those shards.

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>>23554416
sup'

>>23554679
>Zeon doesn't have "unlimited mining resources" because asteroids take time and manpower to tow into Side 3, let alone mine.
I would assume that was all setup before the war started. That's how they built all those musai and Zakus

>>23554717
>The Neo-Zeong getting tech from "beyond the time" is just a in-universe rumor.
No it's not. The whole plot of the Gundam NT is the soul of the Phenex Gundam stopping the Neo Zeong. This soul said the NZ's technology does not belong in this era. And the tech was brought by forbidden means from beyond.

Can someone answer a question?

What about Granada? Isn't it the size of a huge city? Probably bigger than Jaburo.

So if Kycillia controlled Granada. What was going on with Granada's production capacity? Shouldn't it be out producing the Federation's smaller Jaburo base? Kycillia should be pumping out tons of mobile suits and mobile armors for her fleet. Her fleet should be the most deadliest and most armed to the teeth in the Zeon navy. Especially considering her fleet never saw combat. The bulk of her fleet just sat in Granada and did patrols. That's it.

Why isn't Kycillia showing up with like 20 Elmeth's and 20 Big Zams and 1000 Gelgoogs? She had the entire force of Granada at her disposal. It's a big factory city. A city thar was never attacked.

>>23554836
>if Kycillia controlled Granada
She didn't.

>>23554717
Narrative makes it seem extremely literal and guide books and tech specs are treating it like fact now.

>>23554857
??? It was her main base during the war iirc

>>23549941
I don't know what they put in its vulcans but that alone puts it head and shoulders above most MP suits. I mean, holy shit, either the vulcans have some secret HE ultra-rape mix or the Geara Doga's armor is wet tissue paper, because Hathaway fucking blows up a GD with the vulcans alone.

But jokes aside, I think it's probably one of the finest production suits ever made in the Universal Century until the F91 era.
It's a solid mix of Zeon and EFF/Anaheim technology, it is incredibly modular, high performance and looks amazing. Hell, a guy in a Stark Jegan managed to give a good fight to Marida, a Cyber Newtype, in the highly advanced Kshatriya. Not to count the fact it's been in service up until F91, which should be solid evidence of its quality as a mass production suit. It also looks sick, and reminds me of the Ingram.

>>23554775
Still haven't solved the manpower issue, especially the part where their opening moves in the OYW also decimated their fleets & mobile suits that General Devil even noticed that the guards guarding him were green troops barely out of the academy.

>>23554836
Zeon may have Granada, but the Federation has Earth, Von Braun City (biggest city on the Moon and Anaheim's HQ and factories), the remaining (non-neutral) Sides, and Luna II to produce their armaments.

And that's not even factoring in the in-fighting between Gihren and Kycilla for resources and the incessant pumping out of Zeon Wunderwaffens every week.

>>23554600
There's plenty of bloodthirsty Zeon soldiers, the first episode showed that Gene didn't give a fuck about civilian casualties and just started firing so he can get credit and be promoted to Char's level. He is literally the reason Amuro got into the Gundam. The Doan's Island episode from the TV series even has Zeon soldiers fire at unarmed civillians, including the children.

There was also the fishing village episode where Zeon took control of a village and forced untrained civilians to pilot Zakus, having 0 issue with killing anyone who tried to leave. Similarly, they attacked the people in Ghardaia alongside the ALF just so they can have a base, and August stops only because he can kiss up to Glemy. The whole point was to basically balance it out, we see good and bad EF soldiers just as we do Zeon.