I'm watching Gundam (the first show) for the first time and I can't get over some pretty stupid things. For example, why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilot, not an infantryman. Pilots don't need to learn how to use weapons, because they already know how to pilot a walking death machine that can use a bigger gun. It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base, because he could just pilot something to swat them out.I don't know, maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but the show is kinda stupid at times.
So? Is that it?
>>23580057As you watch the rest of the franchise you'll discover adversaries finding their way into the cockpit of a mobile suit in use is shockingly common, so yes it's a good idea to have a small arm.
>>23580066Well, it's not the only thing (the combinations are stupid as well and far more egregious), but it's one that came to mind, especially since I expected something more grounded in realism, based on what I've heard about the show. Amuro charging out with a machine gun was just really stupid and made me pause the episode for a moment, because it feels like the show is pretending to be a military show, while having very stupid stuff like that. >Oh yeah, instead of ordering our pilot to fly out, he should grab a gun and go shoot the enemy!
>>23580069I mean, sure, that is a possible scenario, but it's just a danger scenario. His job is piloting, and there shouldn't be much reason for him to know how to use weapons just because of one scenario. All enemies that get that close to the hangar / base should be dealt with by infantrymen or guards, because that's literally their job. Pilots only need to know piloting, because that's their role.
You must be over 18 to post in this website, etc
>>23580057Can you stop watching now please so I never have to see a thread like this again? Just lie to me and say you will.
>>23580081You know military pilots in real life are issued guns, right?
>>23580094I mean, sure, it's probably issued if they know how to use weapons. But that doesn't mean combat pilots are required to know how to use them, because their main role as a soldier is piloting, and you don't get to shoot a gun from a cockpit. Amuro was drafted on the basis the he could pilot, and that is his main role as a pilot. As long as he does this role, he doesn't need to know how to use a gun, even if it's an useful skill. Defending the base with small arms is not part of his job as a soldier.
>>23580057Op,every army position requires you to use a gunUsaf even commisioned colt to make a lighter service revolverIf you crash your machine and survive you will need to survive till rescue arrives or try to sneak and shoot your way out back to safetyYou can have a giga deathbot 5000 but you are shit out of luck if you get ambushed in hangar by the enemy
>>23580099>every army position requires you to use a gunSure, it's probably useful for self-defense or for those scenarios, but it doesn't mean you can't work in that position without having any skills with guns. Literally even in this show Amuro was able to work as a pilot from episode 1 without knowing how to use a weapon, meaning that the Feds don't require knowledge of it. After all, dealing with those scenarios are not part of your job as a combat pilot. Your most important job is to know how to pilot, everything else is secondary in this position.
>>23580128>After all, dealing with those scenarios are not part of your job as a combat pilot. Your most important job is to know how to pilot, everything else is secondary in this position.lmao you are a fucking retardFighter pilots have a standard issue sidearm and Army helicopter crew frequently have an assault rifle as part of their emergency kitthere is no "if you know how to use weapons", you are going to be trained how to use one before you ever set foot in a cockpit
>why did the boy who fell into the cockpit of the invincible super robot need weapons training?
>>23580131>their emergency kitYes, emergency. Just like there is a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher at every work place for emergencies. However, actually dealing with those emergencies is not part of your job, unless you're a fireman or a paramedic.>you are going to be trained how to use one before you ever set foot in a cockpitMaybe if the army in question requires that, but it doesn't change the fact that a combat pilot can still do his job as a combat pilot by only knowing how to pilot. Even armies which require it, would allow it if the situation demands it.>there is no "if you know how to use weapons"Yes, there literally is, and in this show, it happens in episode 1.>>23580135Well, you tell me? He seemed to do just fine with only piloting skills.
I hate everything about this thread.
>>23580147>it doesn't change the fact that a combat pilot can still do his job as a combat pilot by only knowing how to pilot. Even armies which require it, would allow it if the situation demands it.Every pilot is an officer and so you're always going to go to your respective branches academy first, and firearms use is part of basic training. You are never going to not know how to use a weapon.>>23580147>Yes, there literally is, and in this show, it happens in episode 1.Yes, because this is an anime where a boy jumps into the cockpit of a prototype machine and reads the manual in the middle of combat and is able to operate it within minutes. You try that in real life and you're going to get shot by the people carrying weapons that they're trained to use, they're not going to say "oh we're under attack and it's an emergency so we'll let you pilot it for now"
OP just wasted my time and bandwidth
stop watching op make us all a favor and drink bleach
>>23580167Fair enough, it seems like every pilot does know how to use a weapon. However, that still doesn't debunk what I said about it only being secondary:In order to do your job as a combat pilot, you don't need to have skill with guns or know how to use one. You can't use a gun in a cockpit, which is your main area of operating. Moreover, it still wouldn't be part of your job to deal with, for example, enemies attacking the base, or, if you got shot down, you can still get back to your own without using any weapons. Your job is to pilot. Everything else is secondary.And sure, this is an anime, but it does show that in times of emergency, someone with only piloting skills can be used as a combat pilot. Moreover, it makes less sense for him to defend against the enemy with machine guns, as it's not his role or job to do that.
>>23580184Shut the fuck up already autistic child.
>>23580187You only proved that most pilots know how to use guns, you didn't prove why they'd be essential in their job or role as combat pilots.
>>23580184You either genuinely brain damaged or 12
>>23580199And you are an ESL.
sir?! I don't understand! who needs a knife in a nuke fight anyways? all you have to do is press a button
>>23580189To be able to defend yourself if you get shot down behind enemy lines during wartime, you absolute fuckwit.
>>23580081>>23580097Dude you're still a human being, especially if you're caught literally anywhere else outside your robot, you're going to need it for self-defence and this is something that comes up in the franchise as well as the good show you've hopefully dropped.How is this your issue>>23580221The president can nuke anyone he wants, so he doesn't need bodyguards
>>23580241THE ENEMY CAN NOT PUSH A BUTTON IF YOU DISABLE HIS HANDMEDIC!!!
/m/ feels dumber lately. Just a lot of really brain dead takes and conversations from an influx of underage ESLs.
>>23580225>>23580241Alright, alright, I understand now that yes, you are required to know basic military skills as a pilot, because it is important for many different scenarios, because even those situations are also part of your job, and yes, sometimes it indeed seems that you need to fight on foot, even if you're a combat pilot. I suppose I got a little heated back there. However, I would still want one answer to my question in the beginning: Would one actually send out a pilot to defend the base with small arms, like Amuro did when the Zeon commandos attacked?
>>23580357do you think you could walk into an air force base with a gun and just take it over uncontested? the pilots would fill you with holes.
>>23580261There were some shitposters from Anilist last summer who still like lurking and bragging about trolling here. Must be bored with their job at Kroger or something.
>>23580377Technically, dealing with that is only meant for the ground crew and the infantrymen and MPs guarding the base.
>>23580536>ground crew, infantrymen, and MPs are dealing with people trying to hijack a mobile suit>it's a diversion, one gets by them>the engineers and pilots look helplessly as the guy leisurely gets himself into a mobile suit>inb4 "why weren't the people who shouldn't be armed trained in CQC that they didn't need to be trained in"
>>23580543Alright, fair point, so dealing with that does also belong to the pilots.
>>23580187
>>23580559AND we see people getting off their mobile suit, often for good reasons, and trying to get back in later on, while others ambush them or are giving them trouble, and a sidearm also helps to not get murdered and have your military-grade robot get hijacked. Also if you have to escape your mobile suit and you're on contested or hostile territory, without a gun the only thing you can do is sit in surrender and hope they don't like committing war crimes. Like, I'm speaking very generally but all of these situations come up, and other anons were either worried about giving spoilers or were (rightly) annoyed enough to not bother
OP, broadly speaking, in real life becoming a soldier with a role of any kind requires you to have basic soldiering skills, first, and second, if you are a pilot or machine operator your outfit should want you to hopefully come back alive in case something bad happens. In what circumstances would it be a good idea to NOT teach someone like a pilot, mechanic, cook, or literally anyone working as an actual military man to use common infantry weapons or have common infantry skills? If you as an aircraft pilot are shot down over enemy territory, would you prefer to have a weapon on you or not? If your tank gets blown up and you survive, would you want to be unarmed? How about a truck driver?If you're an artilleryman and you get ambushed, what then? If you're an engineer or mechanic and bad guys are swarming your base or some shit, would you prefer to know how to use a weapon or not?How about if you're the commanding officer of these people in the field?Maybe if you're a medic you'd like it more if you have no gun, it'll make a nice statement when the other guys shoot you.
>>23580688>>23580581These things make a lot more sense now, thanks. I suppose I just got really stuck on the idea that you wouldn't need any basic infantry skills to be a combat pilot, since my friend once claimed this when we were discussing Battletech lore. He claimed that combat pilots and mercenaries don't need any skills with infantry weapons. Looking back, I feel retarded believing that.
>>23580821Nobody cares, go blogpost on reddit retard.
The White Base has Zeeks getting on board multiple times throughout the series
>>23580821Oh I get it, you're falseflagging to make Battletech fans look bad
>>23580081If you don't think the pilot of the only thing keeping a military/civilian base alive wouldn't be taught emergency protocol to keep himself (and by proxy the Gundam) safe then anon you are mentally retarded
>>23580057Pilots have to qualify on small arms in the real world too, genius.
>>23580128>it still wouldn't be part of your job to deal with, for example, enemies attacking the baseMy man, even the cooks are going to run to the armory to grab their service rifles if the fucking base is under attack.t. Marine vet
>>235800570079 is aged as fuck. It's one of those shows that is better in retrospect because the lore is very interesting, but the actual anime is dogshit. Stilted dialogue, uninspired music, terrible pacing, unlikeable characters all the way around.UC gundam in general is a very grating experience to watch, but fun to look back on and talk about. Like a history textbook. I swear that everyone pretends to like actually watching it though. Zeta, ZZ, CCA don't get much better.
Crucify all zoomers.
>>23581995who the fuck doesn't like the music?https://youtube.com/watch?v=fReiDt2kFBE
>>23581995i thought the characters and pacing were pretty decent, it's only once they go back into space again where things start getting a little rushed, especially everything with lalah and the newtype stuffi don't think i found any of the characters unlikable, at worst they felt under cooked but never outright bad
>>23580257NOT TODAY
>>23580688>>23580930You guys do know that basic infantry skills can be easily improvised on?
>>23582743>enemy gets into your cockpit>try to shoot them>safety was left on, meaning you couldn't shoot them>they kill youYou can't work at any job by just improvising. If it's part of your duties, you need to be trained for it. You literally can't be deployed to any combat situations without sufficient training, unless the situation is actually really fucked. You can't even use a gun unless you have training for it. Moreover, going by that logic, you wouldn't need any training with MS either, because you can always improvise like Amuro did in episode 1, and so did multiple other pilots in Gundam. Actually, judging by that logic, infantry wouldn't need any training because they can always just improvise.
>>23580688>>23580962>>23580094>>23580099OP is a retard, but he's right that air force pilots don't need ground combat skills:https://www.quora.com/Are-Air-Force-pilots-trained-for-combat-on-the-ground
>>23583015the OP claimed>why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilotwhich is retarded because pilots are taught how to use a gun.from your own link:>Almost all pilots go to SERE Training>We all had previously qualified on weapons handling and firing>U.S. Air Force serving as a rated pilot in a staff position, but not as an active ‘line dog’ pilot. Prior to deployment we spent two weeks undergoing ground combat training>qualified on the live fire 300 meter range with pop-up targets
>>23583106OP also claimed:>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base... .The answers you quoted were from a guy were replied with:>Your training at Ft Dix was not the norm. You were filling a staff position that had predeployment requirements, one of them being that class.>Unless some units get lessons locally by qualified trainers at their own base, I have never heard of aircrew getting any form of official hand-to-hand combat training.And other comments support this as well:>COMBAT TRAINING MAKES ZERO SENSE>There’s simply no reason to teach serious combat skills to an aircrew member. Surviving the crash/ejection were the primary things we learned, as well as learning to survive to escape.>As a matter of fact very few Air Force personnel are taught ground combat at all. >There are also Security Police that are taught Air Base Ground Defense that is highly combat orientated as are the Air Force Sniper teams.>What kind of ground combat are you talking about? Leading troops into battle, or defending themselves in case of being shot down? Either way, no.>Everybody does a bit of ground defence training during their recruit course, but that’s more a bit of weapon handling and some self-defensive ground tactics stuff. >Ground combat isn’t their job. Nobody expects them to do it and training for it would be a waste of time and money.
>>23583015Amuro probably wasn’t taught extensive ground combat skills. Everyone is still taught how to use small arms as part of their basic training.
>>23583225Would I be mistaken in thinking that MS pilots would most likely need more training with small arms then fighter or helicopter pilots? After all, regardless of the show, Mobile Suits seem to be more akin to tanks than fighter jets when fighting on the ground, since they usually fight alongside infantry and armored units.
>>23583165>OP also claimed:>>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base...>>...because they already know how to pilot a walking death machine that can use a bigger gun. It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base, because he could just pilot something to swat them out.real pilots in real aircraft also have bigger guns than the infantry but they're still given firearms training in case they aren't capable of getting in the plane.
>>23583419Nope, not in the US Navy.
>>23583419Correct Source: I’m In the Navy
>>23583490Navy OCS doesn't contain weapon qualifications.
>>23583492https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/pistol-qualification-at-ocs.42008/Possibly outdated, but there's a range on Navsta Newport, which essentially exists for OCS.
>>23580057You sound literally stupid. Yes, he's a pilot. He's also still a soldier. Soldiers need to learn how to use at least small arms for self defense. Are you just farming for reactions or are you just that dumb?
This thread must be a bait. No way there are people who know nothing about military service.
>>23583713>>23583486>>23583490Here, a literal answer by a former Navy officer retired in 2022, who literally confirms that it's a requirement not just once, but for every single deployment into a conflict zone.https://www.quora.com/Are-pilots-in-the-military-taught-to-fire-sidearms-or-does-the-Air-Force-not-teach-their-pilots-how-to-use-weapons-other-than-aircraft>In the Navy, flight crews were required to qualify with the 9mm Beretta, and re qualify before every deployment. It was more about safe weapon handling procedures rather than marksmanship, and the minimum standard to qualify was pretty gentlemanly. Still, it was regarded as a fun day at the range for the squadron, and most guys tried to get their Expert Marksman ribbon if they could.Moreover, Mobile Suits are NOT fighters. They are their own thing, and are more akin to a mix of tanks and helicopters, than pure fighters. MS fight on the ground alongside infantry and armored vehicles, and a downed pilot has much bigger chances of needing to continue ground combat once downed, which already makes them need weapons qualifications more. Even in space, where they most resemble fighters, they're their own entire thing, and are still more akin to helicopters due to the fact a pilot might genuinely be able to disembark on certain missions and be picked up by his buddies. If anything, MS pilots are more analogous to tank crews, rather than aviators.
>>23583713>Soldiers need to learn how to use at least small arms for self defenseNope, not all soldiers need to.>>23584061That's just for aircrews, and only when they get deployed. Their basic training doesn't include any.
>>23584472You do know that fighter pilots count as aircrew? Moreover, MS are still not aircraft. And this thread already proved that they need to be trained if they're deployed to a line of duty.
>>23584618>MS are still not aircraftI'm sorry Gundam, looks like you tobed your last tobe...
>>23584623Do core fighters count as MS, when they're usually only a part of MS?
>>23584632If it can move and wear a tie, then it's a mobile suit
>>23584623>>23584632>>23584637Core Fighter is an aircraft, not a Mobile Suit. Gundam itself isn't an aircraft, even if its core can act as one when separated.
>>23584770Yeah, the Gundam itself is a spaceship.
>>23584623>>23584637Listen, my point for that anon was that MS pilots shouldn't be held to the same standard as fighter pilots or aviators, because the MS fight on foot when they're on Earth, and even in space, your average MS pilot finds themselves fighting outside of cockpit more than usual. Moreover, MS pilots need to worry about cockpit invasions way more than aviators, so they might need to use basic soldier skills even without leaving the cockpit.
>>23584770You are an absolute idiot.
>>23580057>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistolit literally is, and you act as if using a gun is some extremely complicated task when children literally can and regularly do it in the real world
>>23587467Security is maintained by the security personnel on any ship or base. A pilot like Amuro should either hide, or surrender if the situation turns bad.
>>23587941White Base doesn't have true designated security personnel, everyone there is trained to do multiple roles probably because they're forced to with very few actual EFF staff, which is why you see even people like Job John do multiple things
>>23587981Moreover, in any Navy or Air Force, where enemy manages to board or infiltrate, all are needed to act and arm themselves just in case.
>>23587941this is such a horrible understanding of military doctrine, why even post if your understanding of how naval boarding defenses work is from the phantom painand as >>23587981 said, the white base crew is extremely understaffed, but also half of them are civilians who were conscripted when the show started
>why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilot, not an infantryman. Pilots don't need to learn how to use weapons, because they already know how to pilot a walking death machine that can use a bigger gun. It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base, because he could just pilot something to swat them out.Yeah its not like his MS could get damaged, or that USAF pilots have ARs in their ejection seats because they>oh no the zeeks got through my plot armor and took down my gundamu now i am held at gunpoint a…*BANG*Oops looks like zeon didn’t take prisoners You fucking clown, op.
>>23580081>>23580097So all ace pilots shouldn’t have a fighting chance and give up and be imprisoned/tortured/executed?>>23583015Obviously downed pilots won’t be kicking doors, they had survival rifles like these to try and make it back to friendly forces. Even russians had something like this and now have a Vityaz (9mm AK) in their ejection seats.
>>23584472I am glad you have no position of authority in a military because the dumb shit you say would lead to people dying. While you’re at it get rid of your fire extinguisher if you never had a fire and stop paying your car insurance too since you haven’t been in a crash, jackass. Move to the ghetto too since you never been stabbed or shot by a jogger, cunt.
>>23580057Blow it out your ass
>>23583106Hathaway also knows BJJ and how to use a gun, op such a fucking sillybilly thinking pilots getting firearm training is a bad thing. Like if white base was boarded should amuro get in the RX-78 and shoot infantry with the beam rifle?
>>23588146Well how about you explain it to me, Admiral Anon, sir? >>23587981It still doesn't make sense to risk your main defense mechanisms by sending them to die by rifle fire and bayonets.>>23588175False equivalence, as an average job does not require training with a fire extinguisher or first aid. A store clerk might need to protect the store from a robbery, but they don't require knowledge of gun use in their job.
Guys, you are missing the primary reason why the OP is triggered by Amuro using a gun. He is an anti-gun faggot and wants to attach his personality to some existing popular nerdy thing. His terrible political opinions are why he wants to change said nerdy thing to something he is OK with.He doesn't understand how militaries work as he has no experience with it.
>>23588352Amuro was technically conscripted into the EFF and is part of the military. Pilots won’t be in their MS 24/7 and based on what happens to drone pilots in Ukraine if Amuro was caught outside the gundam and couldn’t fight he would be fucked.
>>23588374Yeah, basically this. Even if Amuro lacked any personal skill before, he was taught everything necessary as a new conscript. Moreover, it's pretty much an established rule at this point that all Gundam armies require their pilots and mechanics to learn some basic infantry skills, as I can't think of a single Gundam MC or their allies who wouldn't have needed to use some basic skills at some point. It's fiction, and if they don't know any basic military skills, it's a sign that they're a civilian. Well, ironically enough, the only one I can think of is Suletta, who is just a future civilian pilot instructor anyway, and not in any need to learn or use those skills for her line of work. If anything, a combat pilot in Gundam not carrying or knowing how to use a firearm is a much bigger anomaly compared to those pilots who do.In response to OP's question, everywhere I've looked for an answer has indeed confirmed that all combat pilots and tank crews with danger of being downed are issued and required to have a firearm / firearms as part of their survival gear. Rather many pilots in Gundam carry sub-machine guns as well, because MS cockpits are usually more spacious and allow for larger pilot carry. So yeah, there's just no damn reason NOT to think that Amuro shouldn't have known or shouldn't have participated, even if he was just drafted, even if he was just a pilot, and even if White Base hadn't been understaffed.
>>23588363I have no interest whatsoever in gun politics, and don't know why you assume so. >>23588201Hathaway is also a terrorist and a guerrilla, who might be chased by Federation agents when he's undercover.
>>23588165>>23588157When shot down, they'll either be captured or they'll be rescued in a few hours. Gun won't do much there.
>>23588726>the only one I can think of is Suletta, who is just a future civilian pilot instructor anyway,Suletta might not know how to use a gun, but she is trained/experienced in rescue during crisis scenarios and has insane strength.Another protag who probably doesn't know how to use a gun correctly is Banagher and probably Machu
fuck it i'll hijack this thread. I'm trying to watch WFM and i used the judas torrent but i can't seem to fix the subs on vlc? it just looks like this for a majority of the series. The prequel was fine.
>this retarded thread is still upJust gonna throw a wild guess here that OP is probably one of those irl special kids who is known as "the guy who does x" because they are too retarded or lazy to do anything else and thinks this is normal human behavior. Like those braindead zoomers who just sits on their phone at work because they think they are hired to do one singular task and nothing else.
>>23589098>enemy shows up before rescue does>could have held them at bay or shot them with a gun, but oh well... *BLAM*
>>23587981>Do every job on the ship>name is Job JohnBravo, Tomino.
zeon were able to board and almost take over white base why wouldn't he be trained to use a gun? he also got into multiple conflicts off white base where his gun saved his life.
>>23589098Gun prevents capture, rape, torture, execution
