So? Is that it?

>>23580057
As you watch the rest of the franchise you'll discover adversaries finding their way into the cockpit of a mobile suit in use is shockingly common, so yes it's a good idea to have a small arm.

>>23580066
Well, it's not the only thing (the combinations are stupid as well and far more egregious), but it's one that came to mind, especially since I expected something more grounded in realism, based on what I've heard about the show.
Amuro charging out with a machine gun was just really stupid and made me pause the episode for a moment, because it feels like the show is pretending to be a military show, while having very stupid stuff like that.
>Oh yeah, instead of ordering our pilot to fly out, he should grab a gun and go shoot the enemy!

>>23580069
I mean, sure, that is a possible scenario, but it's just a danger scenario. His job is piloting, and there shouldn't be much reason for him to know how to use weapons just because of one scenario. All enemies that get that close to the hangar / base should be dealt with by infantrymen or guards, because that's literally their job. Pilots only need to know piloting, because that's their role.

You must be over 18 to post in this website, etc

>>23580057
Can you stop watching now please so I never have to see a thread like this again? Just lie to me and say you will.

>>23580081
You know military pilots in real life are issued guns, right?

>>23580094
I mean, sure, it's probably issued if they know how to use weapons. But that doesn't mean combat pilots are required to know how to use them, because their main role as a soldier is piloting, and you don't get to shoot a gun from a cockpit. Amuro was drafted on the basis the he could pilot, and that is his main role as a pilot. As long as he does this role, he doesn't need to know how to use a gun, even if it's an useful skill. Defending the base with small arms is not part of his job as a soldier.

>>23580057
Op,every army position requires you to use a gun
Usaf even commisioned colt to make a lighter service revolver
If you crash your machine and survive you will need to survive till rescue arrives or try to sneak and shoot your way out back to safety
You can have a giga deathbot 5000 but you are shit out of luck if you get ambushed in hangar by the enemy

>>23580099
>every army position requires you to use a gun
Sure, it's probably useful for self-defense or for those scenarios, but it doesn't mean you can't work in that position without having any skills with guns. Literally even in this show Amuro was able to work as a pilot from episode 1 without knowing how to use a weapon, meaning that the Feds don't require knowledge of it. After all, dealing with those scenarios are not part of your job as a combat pilot. Your most important job is to know how to pilot, everything else is secondary in this position.

>>23580128
>After all, dealing with those scenarios are not part of your job as a combat pilot. Your most important job is to know how to pilot, everything else is secondary in this position.
lmao you are a fucking retard
Fighter pilots have a standard issue sidearm and Army helicopter crew frequently have an assault rifle as part of their emergency kit
there is no "if you know how to use weapons", you are going to be trained how to use one before you ever set foot in a cockpit

>why did the boy who fell into the cockpit of the invincible super robot need weapons training?

>>23580131
>their emergency kit
Yes, emergency. Just like there is a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher at every work place for emergencies. However, actually dealing with those emergencies is not part of your job, unless you're a fireman or a paramedic.
>you are going to be trained how to use one before you ever set foot in a cockpit
Maybe if the army in question requires that, but it doesn't change the fact that a combat pilot can still do his job as a combat pilot by only knowing how to pilot. Even armies which require it, would allow it if the situation demands it.
>there is no "if you know how to use weapons"
Yes, there literally is, and in this show, it happens in episode 1.

>>23580135
Well, you tell me? He seemed to do just fine with only piloting skills.

I hate everything about this thread.

>>23580147
>it doesn't change the fact that a combat pilot can still do his job as a combat pilot by only knowing how to pilot. Even armies which require it, would allow it if the situation demands it.
Every pilot is an officer and so you're always going to go to your respective branches academy first, and firearms use is part of basic training. You are never going to not know how to use a weapon.
>>23580147
>Yes, there literally is, and in this show, it happens in episode 1.
Yes, because this is an anime where a boy jumps into the cockpit of a prototype machine and reads the manual in the middle of combat and is able to operate it within minutes. You try that in real life and you're going to get shot by the people carrying weapons that they're trained to use, they're not going to say "oh we're under attack and it's an emergency so we'll let you pilot it for now"

OP just wasted my time and bandwidth

stop watching op make us all a favor and drink bleach

>>23580167
Fair enough, it seems like every pilot does know how to use a weapon. However, that still doesn't debunk what I said about it only being secondary:
In order to do your job as a combat pilot, you don't need to have skill with guns or know how to use one. You can't use a gun in a cockpit, which is your main area of operating. Moreover, it still wouldn't be part of your job to deal with, for example, enemies attacking the base, or, if you got shot down, you can still get back to your own without using any weapons. Your job is to pilot. Everything else is secondary.
And sure, this is an anime, but it does show that in times of emergency, someone with only piloting skills can be used as a combat pilot. Moreover, it makes less sense for him to defend against the enemy with machine guns, as it's not his role or job to do that.

>>23580184
Shut the fuck up already autistic child.

>>23580187
You only proved that most pilots know how to use guns, you didn't prove why they'd be essential in their job or role as combat pilots.

>>23580184
You either genuinely brain damaged or 12

>>23580199
And you are an ESL.

sir?! I don't understand! who needs a knife in a nuke fight anyways? all you have to do is press a button

>>23580189
To be able to defend yourself if you get shot down behind enemy lines during wartime, you absolute fuckwit.

>>23580081
>>23580097
Dude you're still a human being, especially if you're caught literally anywhere else outside your robot, you're going to need it for self-defence and this is something that comes up in the franchise as well as the good show you've hopefully dropped.
How is this your issue
>>23580221
The president can nuke anyone he wants, so he doesn't need bodyguards

>>23580241
THE ENEMY CAN NOT PUSH A BUTTON IF YOU DISABLE HIS HAND

MEDIC!!!

/m/ feels dumber lately. Just a lot of really brain dead takes and conversations from an influx of underage ESLs.

>>23580225
>>23580241
Alright, alright, I understand now that yes, you are required to know basic military skills as a pilot, because it is important for many different scenarios, because even those situations are also part of your job, and yes, sometimes it indeed seems that you need to fight on foot, even if you're a combat pilot. I suppose I got a little heated back there. However, I would still want one answer to my question in the beginning: Would one actually send out a pilot to defend the base with small arms, like Amuro did when the Zeon commandos attacked?

>>23580357
do you think you could walk into an air force base with a gun and just take it over uncontested? the pilots would fill you with holes.

>>23580261
There were some shitposters from Anilist last summer who still like lurking and bragging about trolling here. Must be bored with their job at Kroger or something.

>>23580377
Technically, dealing with that is only meant for the ground crew and the infantrymen and MPs guarding the base.

>>23580536
>ground crew, infantrymen, and MPs are dealing with people trying to hijack a mobile suit
>it's a diversion, one gets by them
>the engineers and pilots look helplessly as the guy leisurely gets himself into a mobile suit
>inb4 "why weren't the people who shouldn't be armed trained in CQC that they didn't need to be trained in"

>>23580543
Alright, fair point, so dealing with that does also belong to the pilots.

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>>23580187

>>23580559
AND we see people getting off their mobile suit, often for good reasons, and trying to get back in later on, while others ambush them or are giving them trouble, and a sidearm also helps to not get murdered and have your military-grade robot get hijacked. Also if you have to escape your mobile suit and you're on contested or hostile territory, without a gun the only thing you can do is sit in surrender and hope they don't like committing war crimes. Like, I'm speaking very generally but all of these situations come up, and other anons were either worried about giving spoilers or were (rightly) annoyed enough to not bother

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OP, broadly speaking, in real life becoming a soldier with a role of any kind requires you to have basic soldiering skills, first, and second, if you are a pilot or machine operator your outfit should want you to hopefully come back alive in case something bad happens. In what circumstances would it be a good idea to NOT teach someone like a pilot, mechanic, cook, or literally anyone working as an actual military man to use common infantry weapons or have common infantry skills?

If you as an aircraft pilot are shot down over enemy territory, would you prefer to have a weapon on you or not?
If your tank gets blown up and you survive, would you want to be unarmed? How about a truck driver?
If you're an artilleryman and you get ambushed, what then?
If you're an engineer or mechanic and bad guys are swarming your base or some shit, would you prefer to know how to use a weapon or not?
How about if you're the commanding officer of these people in the field?
Maybe if you're a medic you'd like it more if you have no gun, it'll make a nice statement when the other guys shoot you.

>>23580688
>>23580581
These things make a lot more sense now, thanks. I suppose I just got really stuck on the idea that you wouldn't need any basic infantry skills to be a combat pilot, since my friend once claimed this when we were discussing Battletech lore. He claimed that combat pilots and mercenaries don't need any skills with infantry weapons. Looking back, I feel retarded believing that.

>>23580821
Nobody cares, go blogpost on reddit retard.

The White Base has Zeeks getting on board multiple times throughout the series

>>23580821
Oh I get it, you're falseflagging to make Battletech fans look bad

>>23580081
If you don't think the pilot of the only thing keeping a military/civilian base alive wouldn't be taught emergency protocol to keep himself (and by proxy the Gundam) safe then anon you are mentally retarded

>>23580057
Pilots have to qualify on small arms in the real world too, genius.

>>23580128
>it still wouldn't be part of your job to deal with, for example, enemies attacking the base
My man, even the cooks are going to run to the armory to grab their service rifles if the fucking base is under attack.
t. Marine vet

>>23580057
0079 is aged as fuck. It's one of those shows that is better in retrospect because the lore is very interesting, but the actual anime is dogshit. Stilted dialogue, uninspired music, terrible pacing, unlikeable characters all the way around.

UC gundam in general is a very grating experience to watch, but fun to look back on and talk about. Like a history textbook. I swear that everyone pretends to like actually watching it though. Zeta, ZZ, CCA don't get much better.

Crucify all zoomers.

>>23581995
who the fuck doesn't like the music?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fReiDt2kFBE

>>23581995
i thought the characters and pacing were pretty decent, it's only once they go back into space again where things start getting a little rushed, especially everything with lalah and the newtype stuff
i don't think i found any of the characters unlikable, at worst they felt under cooked but never outright bad

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>>23580257
NOT TODAY

>>23580688
>>23580930
You guys do know that basic infantry skills can be easily improvised on?

>>23582743
>enemy gets into your cockpit
>try to shoot them
>safety was left on, meaning you couldn't shoot them
>they kill you
You can't work at any job by just improvising. If it's part of your duties, you need to be trained for it. You literally can't be deployed to any combat situations without sufficient training, unless the situation is actually really fucked. You can't even use a gun unless you have training for it. Moreover, going by that logic, you wouldn't need any training with MS either, because you can always improvise like Amuro did in episode 1, and so did multiple other pilots in Gundam. Actually, judging by that logic, infantry wouldn't need any training because they can always just improvise.

>>23580688
>>23580962
>>23580094
>>23580099
OP is a retard, but he's right that air force pilots don't need ground combat skills:
https://www.quora.com/Are-Air-Force-pilots-trained-for-combat-on-the-ground

>>23583015
the OP claimed
>why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilot
which is retarded because pilots are taught how to use a gun.
from your own link:
>Almost all pilots go to SERE Training
>We all had previously qualified on weapons handling and firing
>U.S. Air Force serving as a rated pilot in a staff position, but not as an active ‘line dog’ pilot. Prior to deployment we spent two weeks undergoing ground combat training
>qualified on the live fire 300 meter range with pop-up targets

>>23583106
OP also claimed:
>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base... .

The answers you quoted were from a guy were replied with:

>Your training at Ft Dix was not the norm. You were filling a staff position that had predeployment requirements, one of them being that class.
>Unless some units get lessons locally by qualified trainers at their own base, I have never heard of aircrew getting any form of official hand-to-hand combat training.

And other comments support this as well:

>COMBAT TRAINING MAKES ZERO SENSE
>There’s simply no reason to teach serious combat skills to an aircrew member. Surviving the crash/ejection were the primary things we learned, as well as learning to survive to escape.

>As a matter of fact very few Air Force personnel are taught ground combat at all.
>There are also Security Police that are taught Air Base Ground Defense that is highly combat orientated as are the Air Force Sniper teams.

>What kind of ground combat are you talking about? Leading troops into battle, or defending themselves in case of being shot down? Either way, no.

>Everybody does a bit of ground defence training during their recruit course, but that’s more a bit of weapon handling and some self-defensive ground tactics stuff.
>Ground combat isn’t their job. Nobody expects them to do it and training for it would be a waste of time and money.

>>23583015
Amuro probably wasn’t taught extensive ground combat skills. Everyone is still taught how to use small arms as part of their basic training.

>>23583225
Would I be mistaken in thinking that MS pilots would most likely need more training with small arms then fighter or helicopter pilots? After all, regardless of the show, Mobile Suits seem to be more akin to tanks than fighter jets when fighting on the ground, since they usually fight alongside infantry and armored units.

>>23583165
>OP also claimed:
>>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base...
>>...because they already know how to pilot a walking death machine that can use a bigger gun. It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base, because he could just pilot something to swat them out.
real pilots in real aircraft also have bigger guns than the infantry but they're still given firearms training in case they aren't capable of getting in the plane.

>>23583419
Nope, not in the US Navy.

>>23583419
Correct

Source: I’m In the Navy

>>23583490
Navy OCS doesn't contain weapon qualifications.

>>23583492
https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/pistol-qualification-at-ocs.42008/
Possibly outdated, but there's a range on Navsta Newport, which essentially exists for OCS.

>>23580057
You sound literally stupid. Yes, he's a pilot. He's also still a soldier. Soldiers need to learn how to use at least small arms for self defense. Are you just farming for reactions or are you just that dumb?

This thread must be a bait. No way there are people who know nothing about military service.

>>23583713
>>23583486
>>23583490
Here, a literal answer by a former Navy officer retired in 2022, who literally confirms that it's a requirement not just once, but for every single deployment into a conflict zone.
https://www.quora.com/Are-pilots-in-the-military-taught-to-fire-sidearms-or-does-the-Air-Force-not-teach-their-pilots-how-to-use-weapons-other-than-aircraft
>In the Navy, flight crews were required to qualify with the 9mm Beretta, and re qualify before every deployment. It was more about safe weapon handling procedures rather than marksmanship, and the minimum standard to qualify was pretty gentlemanly. Still, it was regarded as a fun day at the range for the squadron, and most guys tried to get their Expert Marksman ribbon if they could.

Moreover, Mobile Suits are NOT fighters. They are their own thing, and are more akin to a mix of tanks and helicopters, than pure fighters. MS fight on the ground alongside infantry and armored vehicles, and a downed pilot has much bigger chances of needing to continue ground combat once downed, which already makes them need weapons qualifications more. Even in space, where they most resemble fighters, they're their own entire thing, and are still more akin to helicopters due to the fact a pilot might genuinely be able to disembark on certain missions and be picked up by his buddies. If anything, MS pilots are more analogous to tank crews, rather than aviators.

>>23583713
>Soldiers need to learn how to use at least small arms for self defense
Nope, not all soldiers need to.

>>23584061
That's just for aircrews, and only when they get deployed. Their basic training doesn't include any.

>>23584472
You do know that fighter pilots count as aircrew? Moreover, MS are still not aircraft. And this thread already proved that they need to be trained if they're deployed to a line of duty.

>>23584618
>MS are still not aircraft
I'm sorry Gundam, looks like you tobed your last tobe...

>>23584623
Do core fighters count as MS, when they're usually only a part of MS?

>>23584632
If it can move and wear a tie, then it's a mobile suit

>>23584623
>>23584632
>>23584637
Core Fighter is an aircraft, not a Mobile Suit. Gundam itself isn't an aircraft, even if its core can act as one when separated.

>>23584770
Yeah, the Gundam itself is a spaceship.

>>23584623
>>23584637
Listen, my point for that anon was that MS pilots shouldn't be held to the same standard as fighter pilots or aviators, because the MS fight on foot when they're on Earth, and even in space, your average MS pilot finds themselves fighting outside of cockpit more than usual. Moreover, MS pilots need to worry about cockpit invasions way more than aviators, so they might need to use basic soldier skills even without leaving the cockpit.

>>23584770
You are an absolute idiot.

>>23580057
>It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol
it literally is, and you act as if using a gun is some extremely complicated task when children literally can and regularly do it in the real world

>>23587467
Security is maintained by the security personnel on any ship or base. A pilot like Amuro should either hide, or surrender if the situation turns bad.

>>23587941
White Base doesn't have true designated security personnel, everyone there is trained to do multiple roles probably because they're forced to with very few actual EFF staff, which is why you see even people like Job John do multiple things

>>23587981
Moreover, in any Navy or Air Force, where enemy manages to board or infiltrate, all are needed to act and arm themselves just in case.

>>23587941
this is such a horrible understanding of military doctrine, why even post if your understanding of how naval boarding defenses work is from the phantom pain
and as >>23587981 said, the white base crew is extremely understaffed, but also half of them are civilians who were conscripted when the show started

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>why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilot, not an infantryman. Pilots don't need to learn how to use weapons, because they already know how to pilot a walking death machine that can use a bigger gun. It's literally not part of his job to use a machine gun or a pistol, even if enemy commandos managed to reach the base, because he could just pilot something to swat them out.


Yeah its not like his MS could get damaged, or that USAF pilots have ARs in their ejection seats because they
>oh no the zeeks got through my plot armor and took down my gundamu now i am held at gunpoint a…
*BANG*
Oops looks like zeon didn’t take prisoners


You fucking clown, op.

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>>23580081
>>23580097
So all ace pilots shouldn’t have a fighting chance and give up and be imprisoned/tortured/executed?
>>23583015
Obviously downed pilots won’t be kicking doors, they had survival rifles like these to try and make it back to friendly forces. Even russians had something like this and now have a Vityaz (9mm AK) in their ejection seats.

>>23584472
I am glad you have no position of authority in a military because the dumb shit you say would lead to people dying. While you’re at it get rid of your fire extinguisher if you never had a fire and stop paying your car insurance too since you haven’t been in a crash, jackass. Move to the ghetto too since you never been stabbed or shot by a jogger, cunt.

>>23580057
Blow it out your ass

>>23583106
Hathaway also knows BJJ and how to use a gun, op such a fucking sillybilly thinking pilots getting firearm training is a bad thing. Like if white base was boarded should amuro get in the RX-78 and shoot infantry with the beam rifle?

>>23588146
Well how about you explain it to me, Admiral Anon, sir?

>>23587981
It still doesn't make sense to risk your main defense mechanisms by sending them to die by rifle fire and bayonets.

>>23588175
False equivalence, as an average job does not require training with a fire extinguisher or first aid. A store clerk might need to protect the store from a robbery, but they don't require knowledge of gun use in their job.

Guys, you are missing the primary reason why the OP is triggered by Amuro using a gun. He is an anti-gun faggot and wants to attach his personality to some existing popular nerdy thing. His terrible political opinions are why he wants to change said nerdy thing to something he is OK with.
He doesn't understand how militaries work as he has no experience with it.

>>23588352
Amuro was technically conscripted into the EFF and is part of the military. Pilots won’t be in their MS 24/7 and based on what happens to drone pilots in Ukraine if Amuro was caught outside the gundam and couldn’t fight he would be fucked.

>>23588374
Yeah, basically this. Even if Amuro lacked any personal skill before, he was taught everything necessary as a new conscript. Moreover, it's pretty much an established rule at this point that all Gundam armies require their pilots and mechanics to learn some basic infantry skills, as I can't think of a single Gundam MC or their allies who wouldn't have needed to use some basic skills at some point. It's fiction, and if they don't know any basic military skills, it's a sign that they're a civilian. Well, ironically enough, the only one I can think of is Suletta, who is just a future civilian pilot instructor anyway, and not in any need to learn or use those skills for her line of work. If anything, a combat pilot in Gundam not carrying or knowing how to use a firearm is a much bigger anomaly compared to those pilots who do.
In response to OP's question, everywhere I've looked for an answer has indeed confirmed that all combat pilots and tank crews with danger of being downed are issued and required to have a firearm / firearms as part of their survival gear. Rather many pilots in Gundam carry sub-machine guns as well, because MS cockpits are usually more spacious and allow for larger pilot carry. So yeah, there's just no damn reason NOT to think that Amuro shouldn't have known or shouldn't have participated, even if he was just drafted, even if he was just a pilot, and even if White Base hadn't been understaffed.

>>23588363
I have no interest whatsoever in gun politics, and don't know why you assume so.

>>23588201
Hathaway is also a terrorist and a guerrilla, who might be chased by Federation agents when he's undercover.

>>23588165
>>23588157
When shot down, they'll either be captured or they'll be rescued in a few hours. Gun won't do much there.

>>23588726
>the only one I can think of is Suletta, who is just a future civilian pilot instructor anyway,
Suletta might not know how to use a gun, but she is trained/experienced in rescue during crisis scenarios and has insane strength.

Another protag who probably doesn't know how to use a gun correctly is Banagher and probably Machu

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fuck it i'll hijack this thread. I'm trying to watch WFM and i used the judas torrent but i can't seem to fix the subs on vlc? it just looks like this for a majority of the series. The prequel was fine.

>this retarded thread is still up
Just gonna throw a wild guess here that OP is probably one of those irl special kids who is known as "the guy who does x" because they are too retarded or lazy to do anything else and thinks this is normal human behavior. Like those braindead zoomers who just sits on their phone at work because they think they are hired to do one singular task and nothing else.

>>23589098
>enemy shows up before rescue does
>could have held them at bay or shot them with a gun, but oh well... *BLAM*

>>23587981
>Do every job on the ship
>name is Job John
Bravo, Tomino.

zeon were able to board and almost take over white base why wouldn't he be trained to use a gun? he also got into multiple conflicts off white base where his gun saved his life.

>>23589098
Gun prevents capture, rape, torture, execution

>>23589101
Machu doesn't know, as she missed a shot from a few feet, but I'm fairly sure Banagher used guns from time to time?

>>23590608
I could be wrong, but I really don't remember him using a gun

>>23590585
Having only one gun is absolutely useless against a whole platoon.

>>23591607
generally, if a pilot goes down, they don't do so in a featureless white plane and are also not expected to 1v36+ an entire platoon
guns on downed pilots are a last resort, but a very useful last resort if you run into an enemy patrol or even catch them unaware

>>23592124
>not teaching your pilots elaborate trickshot multikills

>>23589097
Every pilot might be chased or targeted by the enemy, no difference here.

>>23591607
Cavalry commanders before the first world war said something similar.

>>23580057
Fucking speed watchers
Throughout the series MULTIPLE times Amuro is outside of the Gundam and gets in situations where he hesitates and later relies on a pistol.
That's like saying the Zeon pilots don't need guns, which they have and use, when they're outside of their MS.

>>23592978
Doesn't really excuse it, it's still retarded for them to carry one, since they shouldn't exit their vehicles while on a mission in the first place. Exiting the cockpit offers no advantage or use to them.

>>23592978
Stop replying to this bot thread.

>>23580057
White Base is so severely undermanned that bridge crew and pilots double as marines

Amuros poor pilot skills he blames everything but himself meanwhile actual badass Chirico from Votoms did both easily.

>>23593091
This, if white base crew sat around waiting for regular troops to bail them out, they'd have died plenty of times.

>>23593041
>it's retarded to have a weapon for emergencies because emergencies aren't supposed to happen
Yeah I'm certainly picking up retarded vibes from somewhere.

>>23593325
Moreover, it's not like those emergencies wouldn't be part of their job duties. A civilian is allowed to just throw their hands into the air and run away, because they're not part of any conflict, a soldier isn't.

>>23593787
>>23593325
Is a fire breaking out in office part of an office workers' duty or job to deal with?

>>23594904
>fire alarm goes off
>why do I need to practice or follow the fire drill instructions? I'm an office worker. I'll just keep typing until the fire department arrive to deal with it

>>23580147
>actually dealing with those emergencies is not part of your job, unless you're a fireman or a paramedic
>get shot down
>copilot is bleeding to death
>first aid kit survived the crash
>Damn I sure wish I could help him but I wasn't trained in first aid because it's not my job! I'm just a pilot!

>>23594941
>>23595017
This doesn't really work here, because these are just precautions. Dealing with the fire / surgery itself is not part of a job for a pilot or office worker, unless they were an office worker, who also needed to put out fires some way. Sure, it's good to have precautions that they need to follow, so they'll get out of danger. However, dealing with the emergencies themselves by putting them out is not really part of their duty as workers, and doesn't belong to their job requirements.

>>23595215
How is it not a job requirement for a soldier to take up arms if the need arises, and fight back against the enemy?

>>23595221
Not all military roles require taking part in combat, and not everyone gets basic training.

>>23595221
you have dishonest people on both sides of this dumbfuck debate arguing about it

it all boils down to "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" except it's about job description instead of legal intent

>>23595226
Combat pilot is a combat role.

>>23595409
Yeah, no shit, still doesn't mean you need to fight on foot.

>>23595227
I don't think there's much to debate about this. A soldier's job description is to fight if the situation calls for it and if he gains such orders, so it's not even comparable to the "office worker vs firefighter" debate. You can't order an office worker to enter a burning building or help in snubbing it out, but you can order a soldier to enter a firefight, regardless of their main role in the forces.

>>23596236
Yes, it absolutely does, if the situation calls for it. Your enemy isn't going to care or wait for you to get into the cockpit, they will shoot you, if you happen to be on their line of fire.

>>23597440
Offices usually have designated staff who are trained and responsible for overseeing evacuation during an emergency, so even that's shaky ground.

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>>23591607
Pilots used to have these as their survival rifles for when they ejected and had to make it back to friendlies or wait for extraction, they’re meant for hunting or self defense

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>>23596236
Ok so what if their mobile suit gets downed? Should they surrender?

>>23595226
>not everyone gets basic training.
What third world country are you in where this is true?

How the fuck is this thread still going. Also how have we not gotten some /k/ autist to shut the OP up?

>>23597971
US Air Force and Navy

>>23598536
He's been proven extremely wrong multiple times but ignores it by pretending Amuro is a base office typist instead of a combat pilot. The conversation is just going in circles and I'm mostly here because people keep posting different iterations of pilot survival rifles which are cool.

>>23598553
They literally can't be deployed to combat zones without basic training. You were already proven wrong about this earlier in the thread. You were given direct answers from Quora, where multiple Navy and Air Force aviators and ground personnel indeed confirmed that they receive basic training as a side, and that they absolutely need to get qualified with weapons before being deployed. You've been given multiple examples, where pilots have taken up arms and fought on foot. You've been shown that every single military pilot throughout Gundam has basic military training, meaning its literally part of their training regardless of the show, timeline, or even continuity. Why are you this obsessed with this question, when it's extremely clear that every single military MS pilot throughout Gundam has ground combat skills, and that MS pilots do indeed need to know ground combat as a side?

>>23598553
Literally everyone in the US Navy goes to basic training. I was an Arabic linguist and went to basic training. The unrated seamen and airmen with no jobs still went to basic with us. We had fucking reserve guys in my Basic division.

>>23599551
Neither Navy or Air Force academies include basic training.

>>23599857
Military Academies and Officer Candidate Schools are a completely different beast than enlisted men. They still have to qualify on marksmanship. Especially Navy side if they’re stationed on a ship. Everyone on a ship is a watch stander.

>>23580057
You dumb tard 90% of the mechas in gundam use some kind of gun. Learning how to use a gun helps you use your mecha's beam gun better.

>>23600380
Is it alright if I ask for a source on that, because it's hard to find confirmation?

>>23598536
I made this thread making fun of op, all the insults should count
>>>/k/64464177

>>23600576
Great, now I'm hungry.

>>23600576
>creative insults means I win

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>>23601397
Take the L, nigger. It costs more to shoot a beam rifle once than to issue a sidearm for pilots.

>>23601546
Now if only you'd find a scenario, where they would need them as part of their job...

>>23601546
>>23601654
Listen, I'm willing to believe that all fighter pilots are able to use basic infantry weapons, and that it's a normal part of job for them to fight on foot if the situation calls for it, if you can find me a source or even a group of sources that confirms this.

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>>23601992
I don't know, man. What type of proof would you even be willing to accept? The fact is that all military pilot courses will include training with small arms at least at some point of the course. Even the Navy OCS(?) that you like touting about includes weapon familiarization, meaning that they do indeed learn how to use infantry weapons. You can check this online if you want to, there was a thread on AirWarriors.com talking about it. While you don't get qualified at Navy OCS, you do get to learn the basics through familiarization. Weapons Qualifications are mainly an US military thing that they need to complete before every assignment. They don't carry weapons all the time, but neither does any soldier. They qualify and carry them when they need to, so yes, it is indeed part of their job to know how to use weapons. And if they get issued weapons, than yes, it is indeed required for them to carry it. I found some former pilots mention they didn't want to go over the hassle of taking it with them, and sometimes didn't fly with them in combat, but I honestly found no source pointing towards it being a voluntary choice given by the military, more than pilots just not bothering to follow instructions.
As for whether it's normal for them to fight on foot, than no, it's not normal, just like it's not normal for a military truck driver to fight on foot. However, if the situation arises, they do indeed need to fight on foot and use firearms like normal infantry. If the air base security gets overrun or flanked, they need to be prepared to fight to defend themselves and their comrades-in-arms, and the base. If an enemy force manages to somehow make its way to a carrier, and the security gets overrun, it's a basic duty for every sailor and officer to arm themselves and join the fight to beat back the enemy. Aviators' main duty is to support and fight by using their aircraft, but a threat from the ground might straight-up stop them from performing their role.

>>23602834
>What type of proof would you even be willing to accept?
Any type of proof that gives me definitive word that all combat pilots are trained to use firearms.
>there was a thread on AirWarriors.com talking about it
I think I found the thread you were talking about, and I will admit here that you seem to be right. Navy OCS does include weapons training, although very minimal, and pilots do get issued qualifications after the school. Therefore, I stand corrected.
>However, if the situation arises, they do indeed need to fight on foot and use firearms like normal infantry. If the air base security gets overrun or flanked, they need to be prepared to fight to defend themselves and their comrades-in-arms, and the base. If an enemy force manages to somehow make its way to a carrier, and the security gets overrun, it's a basic duty for every sailor and officer to arm themselves and join the fight to beat back the enemy
This still doesn't prove that it would be their job to fight on foot if the situation demands it. These are exceptional emergencies, not the norm or part of their job description.
>a threat from the ground might straight-up stop them from performing their role
Which is why the base security and infantry deals with it. Not the pilots or mechanics.

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>>23601992
>>23601654
Why don’t you just get rid of your fire extinguisher, you never been in a house fire right? Slash your seatbelts while you’re at it since you never been in a car crash. Why don’t cruise ships just destroy all their life boats since the titanic was a hundred years ago?
You need to get smacked for being this dumb.

>>23603224
I train martial arts and with firearms for self defense, I haven’t been robbed by niggers (yet) but you never know, its an insurance policy.
It takes more budget and resources for a single mobile suit missile than it would take to mill some handguns for pilots.

>>23603318
A handgun ($1000 with gov markup) + a week of training ($1000 in wages for a trainee in the USAF) = $2K to teach a pilot to use a gun.
Total Training cost for a pilot is like $1.3 million (cargo plane) to $13 million (F-22 pilot).
There are like 13000 pilots in the USAF. Handgun training would have to save like 10 pilots only to make it financially worth it, and that is before considering the value of a captured pilot giving up information or a pilot not having enough time to destroy classified equipment.

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>>23603344
As a gun owner my glock has a Holosun red dot, streamlight WML, custom grips and some other aftermarket accessories, I spent more on my AR.
ANYWAY this fucking thing is not worth 1k.
Now ron cohen, the jewish conman who runs sig sauer overcharges civilians for the M17 while selling them in bulk at $300 a piece to the military.

>>23603351
Oh did they actually discount the military? Guess that's why the overpriced XM7 got picked. Making up the difference on the rifle side.
Either way, it makes a pistol training course make even more sense at $1300.

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>>23603473
Most milfags/gunfags hate sig and the average grunt isn’t getting a XM7 with the fuck huge smart scope, it will be a DMR or special forces rifle. Regardless to give you the benefit of doubt lets just say its $1000 combined budget of sidearm, ammo and training.
Compare that to a burst of the 20mm head vulcans being $72,000 USD to fire for 12 seconds, not as much as Sasha but you still can’t make an argument for why pilots shouldn’t carry a handgun.

>>23580057
>No tank crew has ever carried onboard armament

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>>23580184

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>>23580184
Smh

>>23603517
I'm pretty sure we are on the same side here against the OP then.

>>23584472
>We poor like a million dollars into every soldier
>Somehow when an airman or linecook is a POW and it comes to light they had no fire arms training anon still insists there's a universe the US armed forces wouldn't undergo basic firearms handling just to cover their ass

this thread made me gay

>>23580057
The zeeks have that wonky ankle pistol holster just because of mobile suit pilots being attacked in their cockpit more often then not. They absolutely need to know, hell theres an episode where amuro even needs to use his sidearm that im sure you just havent gotten to yet.

>>23603531
>>23603537
Not Gundam

>>23603318
Cool. Still not answering my question if it's part of their duties and job as military pilots.

>>23603314
Emergencies are emergencies. A construction worker having an accident is an emergency, but dealing with it is not his job. A store clerk getting robbed is an emergency, but preventing it is not his job.

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>>23580057
Why do you have a problem with Amuro being able to use a gun, but not with Bright showcasing skills in pistol, rifle and close combat? If anything, he should be the least qualified with weapons considering he's just an officer candidate at the start of 0079?

>>23605625
Good point. Bright shouldn't have knowledge of any of that either, and it makes even less sense for him to fight on foot multiple times.

>>23603543
Oh my bad

>>23605124
Its not an emergency if you expect it to happen. Mobile suit pilots having a gun is an insurance, I don’t walk into spic, nigger or junkie infested areas and I carry a Glock regardless in case I have a run in to trouble.

>>23606961
Is that your job or are you just living out power fantasies?

>>23606961
Yeah, sure, it's an insurance. But tell me, is using that gun part of their job as MS pilots? Could they not do their job if they didn't know how to use it?

in zeta there are so many times people steal a mobile suit or launch without authorization that it becomes a bit silly. Ok I can understand not having locks on military equipment but the suits are stored fueled up and armed? and hanger crews just let anyone launch without question? and command crews within both the titans and aeug just allow it?

How do real naval aircraft carriers operate? Are pilots allowed to roam around the ship freely and take off whenever they want? no way right?

>>23607112
>Are pilots allowed to roam around the ship freely and take off whenever they want
No fucking way they are allowed. Nobody in the military is allowed. You can't even drive an army vehicle without it being issued to you for a mission.

>>23607059
>Could they not do their job if they didn't know how to use it?
Honestly? No, they couldn't.

>>23606961
Post pick of your Glock, /k/fren.

>>23607059
>But tell me, is using that gun part of their job as MS pilots?
Watch MSG episode version with your eyes to the end instead of shitposting

>>23606964
I just live in a shitty area

>>23607059
Just because a mobile suit pilot isn’t infantry doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be prepared, in thunderbolt ep1 a zeon pilot got shot after his cockpit was hacked by a feddie, he would have had better odds if his cockpit had a PDW or handgun

>>23607646
No

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>>23607724
most pilot suits have provisions for a pistol holster, but that guy was caught off guard and was confused about his cockpit opening. he was too relaxed and didn't suspect any danger so he never readied a gun even if he had one. if he had his helmet off for comfort while inside the cockpit, he would have been fucked as well

that said, pretty sure most pilots have some kind of sidearm or something in the cockpit, almost every show has had a scene with weapons drawn inside the cockpit or at the cockpit door

>>23607648
Just give me an answer. Yes or no? Is knowing how to use that gun part of their job?

>>23607724
I wasn't arguing that having a gun is a negative, just like some police knowing how to do first aid isn't a negative. It's obvious that a gun can save their lives, and it is indeed useful even for emergence situations inside a cockpit. But an emergency is still only an emergency, and it doesn't mean they need to be prepared for it. What I was arguing is that it's not part of their job to fight on foot, and in that regard, gun training is useless. Scenes like pic >>23607740 sound ridiculous, because pilots aren't expected to do that, it's not their job to fight on foot like infantry. See: >>23583165

>>23607112
My guess is due to being a small organisation in enemy territory they need to keep their MS battle ready in case of surprise attack. If some Hizacks suddenly jump your carrier you don't want to have to fuel and load your mechs before you can return fire.

>>23608072
That's like saying it's not part of their job to operate in space outside of their mechs so issuing a space suit is useless.

>>23608078
Then why doesn't Char wear one? It's extra protection, but it's not a necessity.

>>23608083
He does the moment he gets told how retarded he was not to. (It also comes with a sidearm)

>>23608072
>an emergency is still only an emergency, and doesn't mean they need to be prepared for it

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>>23608072
Episode 20 of MSG, titled Hand-to-Hand Combat.
Seems like a resounding yes to me.

>>23608090
>He does the moment he gets told how not-laid he will get

>>23608095
Yes? Can a firefighter still work as a firefighter without knowing first aid?

>>23608101
I know this episode, it still makes very little sense, though. It's basically throwing all your officers, pilots, and mechanics to the way of danger. There isn't a real world situation, where this would happen.

>>23608129
No, first aid and resuscitation are required training for firefighters.

>>23608134
There's noone else to throw, it's everyone fights or everyone dies.

>>23608072
> But an emergency is still only an emergency, and it doesn't mean they need to be prepared for it.
Nigger really?

>>23608134
Let's muddle this through. What in your opinion would be the sensible thing to happen in this episode? You have hostiles onboard the white base and you officers, mechanics and pilots are in danger no matter what. What action should they have taken rather than fighting off the invaders?

>>23608252
Pilots, officers and mechanics should preferably go to a good spot to hide, while the security forces and other crew deal with the invasion.

>>23608138
Wrong, it only depends on the FD.
https://www.quora.com/Do-firefighters-have-to-be-certified-in-first-aid

>>23608140
Alright, I will admit here that this is a rather compelling argument. However, it's still a stupid move to order pilots and mechanics to repel boarders, since the MS and aircraft wouldn't be out fighting without them. They could always surrender, since a prison exchange saves valuable pilots.

>>23608156
Is it their duty to deal with that emergency? If not, than they don't need to be prepared for it.

>>23608705
USAF pilots get pistol training even though they aren’t boots on ground infantry

>>23608705
Wouldn't having your pilots and mechanics surrender also prevent your MS and aircraft from being used?

>>23608711
I know that, but is it part of their duty to beat back invaders or a boarding party, or not? It's meant for self-defence in the case they get shot down or get shot at.

>>23608726
Well, it admittedly would, and it would lead to rather heavy losses if those vehicles got captured. However, a living and captured mechanic and pilot is miles better than having them die in an unnecessary gunfight.

>>23608792
>However, a living and captured mechanic and pilot is miles better than having them die in an unnecessary gunfight.
No it isn't.

If pilots and mechanics surrender
>you lose the pilots and mechanics because they get captured
>enemies advance further inside the ship and more quickly since there's less resistance

If pilots and mechanics fight back
>you lose the pilots and mechanics because they die
>enemies might be prevented from reaching objectives, but definitely take longer to advance

>>23608703
There are no security crew, or rather everyone is pulling multiple jobs due to being severely undermanned so everyone is.

>>23608792
So they should just die?

>>23608705
Everyone needs to be prepared for an emergency no matter what their role in the event of that emergency may be.

>>23608705
And if the zeon infiltration team isn't taking prisoners? What if they figure they don't have the numbers to keep watch of a ship full of prisoners and so resolve to wipe out the crew instead?

>>23608705
You say this as if they'll just take a couple of prisoners and leave the rest of the crew to carry on their business as usual. They're saboteurs, they'll probably kill the crew, loot the suits and destroy anything they can't capture.

>>23608798
The PoWs can always be brought back in one way or another (chances vary)

Not really relevant though, since they give up only when there's no chance to win and no point to buy time, anyway. And if a boarding party is not taking prisoners, it will not spare you even if you're disarmed.

>>23608798
Yes, it is. I see your point, but a skilled pilot and mechanic is simply more valuable alive than dead. If the ship is doomed to fall anyway, a living crew is better than a dead one. POWs can always be gained back, like you see in all wars.

>>23608800
Where did I say that? If anything, I said that it'd be less suicidal.

>>23608804
>>23608806
Admittedly, this is the one situation, where the better option is to fight to the last man. Still, I doubt Ramba was about to kill everyone, considering he spared Fraw. It's also just an exceptional situation.

>>23608824
>but a skilled pilot and mechanic is simply more valuable alive than dead.
>POWs can always be gained back, like you see in all wars.
>always
What? No, that's not true. The problem is that you don't know if or when they'll be returned. Skilled crew is only useful to your side if they are able to work for you. Either way, a captured or dead crew cannot provide work or benefits for your side of the war, either temporarily or permanently.

What if the enemies put the captured crew into slavery to work for them? What if they interrogate and torture the crew for intelligence? What if they hold the crew captive until the war is over? There is no guarantee that your crew will be returned to you free of harm and ready to work again. The Axis used slave labor in WWII especially for dangerous tasks and the communists tortured surrendered\captured POW during Korea and Vietnam. Prisoners who couldn't work or were uncooperative in sharing information could also be beaten, tortured, or executed. In a bad case scenario, by the time the surviving crew are returned to you, they may no longer be valuable because they are no longer able to work due to physical and mental injury and trauma.

>If the ship is doomed to fall anyway, a living crew is better than a dead one.
Here's the counterpoint: How do you know the ship is doomed to begin with? How do you know it's not possible to fight off invaders?

>>23608824
We are making progress, so with the established facts
>the white base is severely undersupplied and understaffed, they don't have spare personnel to just stand around all day as guards
>they're a treasure trove of critical technology for the war efforts that can't be allowed to fall into enemy hands
>enemies have the capability to infiltrate the base to assault it directly where mobile suits are unable to act
>throwing yourself on the enemies mercy is a dubious idea at best, were ramba ral not a soft touch several crew members would have died
Do you still hold the opinion it was retarded for Amuro and the other white base staff to have been training in the use of firearms?

>>23608881
Well, you do have a point here. POW is not an ideal situation by any means, and I suppose it is a soldier's duty to resist capture by any means if possible. But as you said, a temporary incapability to fight is still better than a permanent one. You might not be able to recover a POW, but there's always a better possibility.

>How do you know the ship is doomed to begin with? How do you know it's not possible to fight off invaders?
A very good point. I suppose the ship would be doomed to fall the moment all bodies capable of fighting end from the ship.

>>23609254
Well, maybe not retarded, but I wouldn't have been sending out the only few pilots of White Base out to fight with the cooks. Another option could have been launching the vehicles in case the base was captured. But you are right, I suppose in a situation like that, firearm training would have been useful. The only thing that just makes me question it is if that's what people in real world aircraft carriers and airbases would do in the case they were invaded by saboteurs. Would pilots and mechanics be out fighting on foot if they couldn't board their vehicles?

>>23580057
For the same reason they had him wear a uniform, anon.
It's not about the gun, it's about being a part of an army.

>>23608703
Did you read that link at all? They're resoundingly saying that you do need not only basic first aid but full EMT training as a firefighter, the only one I can see that says no follows it up with "because they'll provide that training in the first year". Hell some guy provided statistics showing 63% of all callouts were purely medical related, with only 3% being actual fires.

>>23583280
I'd figure so, considering a Mobile Suit falling over is relatively survivable, but a jet plane falling over is usually not.

this is really silly considering the leaps in logic being used to say
>"I could go to the range for a week or two and learn basic firearm usage and safety, but I'd rather not"

>>23609409
>I wouldn't have been sending out the only few pilots of White Base out to fight with the cooks.
Why not? You'd think they would be more useful in fighting back the invaders than needlessly flying out of the base, and risk losing their mother ship?

>>23584061
>Moreover, Mobile Suits are NOT fighters. They are their own thing, and are more akin to a mix of tanks and helicopters, than pure fighters.

As a former 19K (Abrams crewmember) I can tell you I was trained to fight with the M4 carbine and M9 Pistol for self defense out of my vehicle. Training in the M2 HMG and M240 MMG were also things I did.

>>23608072
>Just give me an answer. Yes or no? Is knowing how to use that gun part of their job?

Yes. Despite your wish they didn't small arms training is part of all vehicle based MOS (Military Occupation Specialty) training. They are usually training in the use of small arms such as pistols, carbines or PDWs rather than the full scale assault rifles non-mechanized infantry are trained to use.

>>23580099
>crash your machine and survive
But won't they expect one of you in the wreckage

>>23610076
>M2 HMG and M240 MMG
Nogunz here, are those the ones you usually see usually mounted on the tank's hatch?

anon you gotta remember that push comes to shove it's better for him to know how to use a gun and never need to than for him to never know how to use a gun and need to. If Amuro were to ever get stranded after a malfunction of the gundam or just straight up be unable to use, he can still fight that way

>>23580057
You're gonna love Gquuuuuuux then, both the protagonists get given guns without any teaching at all, one winds up shooting the person who gave it to her, the other discharges her gun in the cockpit, damaging important equipment.

>>23610132
Especially since White Base wasn't exactly operating under normal military parameters for most of the series. Everybody except the children probably received varying degrees of instruction in firearm use.

>>23610128
Yeah, or setup in a nest behind a pile of sandbags.

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>>23610128
Yes, the M240 is a medium machine gun that is in two places: coaxial to the 120mm main cannon and pintle mounted on loader's hatch. The M2 HMG also used to be pintle mounted on the commander's hatch, but is now hooked up to a remote weapons system that can be controlled and fired from inside the turret.

You can see all 4 of the guns in this picture. The big tube is the 120mm main gun, the small tube next to the main cannon's base is the the M240 coax, the guy sticking out of the turret is the tank commander with the remote weapon system in front of him with the M2 mounted in it and to the right of the commander is the loader sticking out of his hatch manning the pintle mounted M240.

Further more each member of the crew is assigned a personal M9 Handgun and 2 M4 Carbines are assigned to the vehicle and stored for emergencies.

>>23609732
Very well, I admit that I didn't read it very thoroughly. I stand corrected, thank you for pointing it out.

>>23610041
Because you can always replace cooks really easily with only a few days' training, but you can't just replace pilots.

>>23610076
>>23610080
Thanks for the input. Might be a dumb question, but I want to be sure, so does this MOS training also cover aviators, and is it the same in Navy and Air Force? And if the situation called for it, would you have been required to fight on foot as part of your job?

>>23610218
Neat, thanks for clarifying. Do Abraham's tanks gave any neat features? I know the bong equivalent has a built in kettle for mid-battle tea.

>>23611154
>Thanks for the input. Might be a dumb question, but I want to be sure, so does this MOS training also cover aviators, and is it the same in Navy and Air Force?

Yes. While the Navy and Air Force use different terms (Ratings for the Navy and AFSC for the Air Force) the idea is the same. Aside from a very few occupations (Chaplains and Medics for example), all service members are expected to train with and qualify with a service weapon even those that never leave a base in the states. Even those rare few that are not required to train and qualify usually still do in order to defend themselves. Medics used to have a free pass from their big red crosses/crescents, but when your opponent considers you an easy target you learn to shoot back quickly.

>And if the situation called for it, would you have been required to fight on foot as part of your job?

Also yes. To my annoyance, I trained to clear buildings a lot during the WoT even though I expected to crew my vehicle most of the time. Aviators and ground crews would be expected to train for and fight on foot as well if necessary. Even submarine crews train to repel boarders in case of emergency. Most service members don't train for ground combat as much as infantry or marines, but all still train to fight with small arms.

>>23611265
Some versions have AC which is great when fighting in a desert. The big thing that makes the Abram different than most other tanks is that it has a gas turbine engine and it will run on pretty much anything from jet fuel to marine diesel. If some one made an Abrams mechamusume she would likely be a glutton who would drink anything petroleum-based she could get her hands on.

>>23611374
>guns all over the place
>eats anything, always hungry for oil
>has AC, mocks those who don't
Truly America personified.

>>23611132
>but you can't just replace pilots
Anon... They literally did that in just a few days. Learning how to pilot MS isn't rocket science, and you can make someone a professional soldier in the span of a few months.

>>23611374
Thanks for the answer, it has certainly cleared up some things. Is it okay if I ask a bit more, since this seems like a good time to clear things up? You said that every service member is taught basic ground combat stuff, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information I came across while debating this through. Like here >>23583165 and >>23583015 it says that they don't learn ground combat, but perhaps I misunderstood it, and they only meant extensive training?

>>23608083
He literally says why. He thinks he's a better pilot without a space suit to save him. Actually watch the show. Why is this thread even still alive?

>>23580057
Hey, /k/ommando reporting in, you're fucking stupid.
Everybody in the armed forces is expected to pick up a weapon and fight if need be, no exceptions.

>>23599857
Cool, that has nothing to do with the fact that everybody goes through basic training WHEN THEY ENLIST.

>>23611932
No, officers don't go through basic training. They usually complete OCS, ROTC, or Academy.

>>23612133
I wasn't talking about officers, I was talking about enlisted personnel. Hence why I mentioned enlistment.

>>23612318
Sorry, got confused.

>>23611932
>enlistment
>academy
Choose one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_quarters

>>23602834
>I found some former pilots mention they didn't want to go over the hassle of taking it with them, and sometimes didn't fly with them in combat, but I honestly found no source pointing towards it being a voluntary choice given by the military, more than pilots just not bothering to follow instructions.
It's optional. Everyone has to qualify before deployment, but taking a sidearm is voluntary.

>>23580076
The core fighter is a perfectly good concept. The combinations make sense as well as it may need to be fitted out differently for different missions. It's a fault with the rest of the franchise (bar ZZ) that they never explore this concept.

>>23581995

You know what its missing, some cubes and people just running everywhere but not getting anywhere.
I like the toonami dub also so lose some sleep over that while you are at it.

>>23615292
The combinations and core fighter only make sense to a degree. The tiny wings folding up makes no sense. The flying tank-thing that fits the gundam's legs inside it is really, really stupid.

Gundam is a series at odds with trying to be a serious science fiction setting with harsh war stories and also wanting to be a show to market plastic model kits to children, and no Gundam more embodies this struggle than MSG79.

I was reading too how Zeta had a lot of things that got lost when it was adapted for anime, and then more things that were lost in translation. Reccoa's character was completely ruined. Emma's death was so bizarrely handled that I wouldn't be surprised if there were details missing either.

>>23611748
This is a bit tricky because it'll vary by country and even service.
Pilots are officers, and most services give their officers a broad base before specialising them. Programs vary but they don't generally want to tie up all the resources associated with flight training before working out if you're military material at all, plus this way they can still get some use out of you even if you wash out of flight school. That'll usually include some tactics and strategy theory, range time, usually some exercises.
Pilots in particular will also get SERE training, which includes a whole range of things a downed pilot may need to know. How to fight if forced, how to evade if you can, how to resist interrogation and how to give yourself the best chance of getting a friendly ride out. It's also important they know how not to be total dead weight in case it's a more protracted extraction with ground forces instead of a CSAR chopper neatly plucking you out of the shit.
Officers in non-combat roles obviously aren't held to the same standards, but it's generally expected they'll know what to do if shit hits the fan.
Enlisted are a similar deal, usually. Weapons qualification and at least a little training pretty much no matter the role. This stuff is often as much about instilling institutional culture as it is any utility in the training, too.

Not everyone is fully trained to be a rifleman in most services. The USMC make a point of it, but in most it's more about making sure you're not dead weight in case of an emergency. You're certainly having a bad day when someone needs to hand out rifles in the mess hall kitchen but it's not an entirely unforeseen one.

Obviously, it's hopefully going to be your infantry doing the infantry jobs, but no military ever won a war by only preparing for the situations they hoped for.

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I'm late to a question that was answered in length and much better than me, but I'm still gonna post

>>23580057
>why the fuck did they teach Amuro how to use a gun? He's a Mobile Suit pilot, not an infantryman. Pilots don't need to learn how to use weapons
As said by others, jet fighter pilot DO learn to use pistols, in case they eject and land in the wild.
And I could imagine them training just in case some enemy agent approach them disguised as a civilian, forcing an enemy agent into a noisy firefight with a high risk of dying would already be worth it.
From memories, Amuro ended up in person, in front of an enemy at least 4 time.
The ship was boarded several times, you have the choice between
a) everyone is shooting, suppressing the enemy, quantity is a quality on its own
b) your "combat trained crew" are overwhelmed by the enemy, killed, then they kill everyone elses

>I don't know, maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but the show is kinda stupid at times.
You definitely are, and wait for the fillers and Monster-of-the-Week episodes.

Also, for Mobile Suits (and despite the White Base heralding floating base) they still count as ground vehicle most of the time.
They battlefield is an environment with everything-jamming (radio, video, light, can't even take a photo) so who know if some enemy is attempting a special OP against the landed White Base? Oh wait they did.
And for Amuro special, apparently sword training would also pay.

>>23583015
>OP is a retard, but he's right that air force pilots don't need ground combat skills:
To recap what others pointed out since, the link say they practice SERE training and obviously it involves guns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival,_Evasion,_Resistance_and_Escape

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Just posting pic on-topic

>>23616055
>>23607740
>>23608101
I've always loved the look of these SMGs. Are there any more pictures or infographs of them?

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>>23616498
https://e-hentai.org/g/941645/786a6f0fca/

>>23616511
Sweet, thanks man.

>>23615600
>Gundam is a series at odds with trying to be a serious science fiction setting with harsh war stories and also wanting to be a show to market plastic model kits to children
Only in your mind, my very young Westoid.

>>23615835
Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Thanks for the reply. I've pretty much gauged through absolutely everything I've been able to find based on the internet alone. At this point, it absolutely does seem like that all pilots do seem to receive gun training at some point. If they don't get it in the initial officer course, they seem to get it before deployment to conflict zones. Without a doubt then, I'd say that at least knowing how to use a firearm is a required skill for combat pilots.

>>23616026
SERE itself does not seem to involve guns, or at least it doesn't include combat, since the point of it is evasion and survival. I tried looking into it, and while it includes "weapons", I did not find out if it includes firearms or just "weapons" like hunting tools.
But you are right, mobile suits are difficult to categorize. On Earth, they're meant for ground-combat, but they might be classified as aircraft in space.

>>23617107
>SERE itself does not seem to involve guns, or at least it doesn't include combat, since the point of it is evasion and survival
Resistance is literally in the acronym, and in the context of SERE it means both resisting enemy interrogation when already captured, and resisting the enemy if they are chasing/attacking you. SERE training does not focus on any specific weapon like a survival pistol because in an emergency situation you aren't guaranteed to have any specific supplies or equipment, rather it's more about teaching the skills to make use of whatever you end up having available to you during the emergency.

>>23617107
>"weapons" like hunting tools.
You'll never guess what they're trained to use as a hunting tool.

>>23610134
Machu shot the gquacks psychommu limiter so it could go super saiyan I mean gooper gundam

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>>23616498

Autistic question, but does anybody know if there are video quality or color differences between the JP vs US, and normal vs limited edition blu ray sets for G Gundam?

Also, are there complete disc rips of those anywhere, rather then encodes?

>>23617134
>resisting the enemy if they are chasing/attacking you
Yes, that is true, but based on what I found, I don't think it's specifically teaching them firing a weapon back at them, at least in the field training part.

>>23617190
Yes, they are taught to use firearms for hunting, but I'm unsure if they use firearms in the field training itself, or if it includes firearm training.

>>23617239
>psycommu system doesn't work without installing the thingummy
>have to kill the thingummy to make psycommu system go full eva unit

>>23615167
No, you fucktard. A gun is a required part of the survival kit.

>>23618292
unofficially maybe, but old kits for sale don't include a gun, nor is there a space in the kit that fits any standard issue pistol.

gun is ALWAYS on a holster strapped to the body, not in the survival kit itself. survival kit needs to be shelf-stable for years and ready to use. the gun doesn't go in there because they need maintenance to be considered fit for service.

>>23618433
>old kits for sale don't include a gun
I think that's more due to the fact that selling the pack with a gun would simply complicate the sales process.

>>23618868
no, what I mean is that the kits don't appear to include a gun at all, as in the kits weren't designed to include a gun

>>23618433
>>23618868
I think the confusion here is that a sidearm is often part of the gear that a pilot is expected to carry, and part of their 'survival equipment', but it's usually kept in a holster on the chest. It's not typically in the literal airman survival kit. That's usually energy dense rations, water purification tablets, a hook and line for fishing, and some other basics that can be compactly kept on the pilot's person. They'll usually also have a radio and transponder for communication and location, and you'd use it in a survival situation, but that's not usually part of what's meant by 'survival kit'.
A service sidearm like an M9 needs to be checked in and out, and the ammunition issued with the firearm is kept logged too.
True 'survival rifles', a breakdown rifle intended to be used for hunting game more than the most dangerous game, have been fiddled with but never really become the norm.

Worth noting too that chopper pilots will often be issued with more, choppers generally have internal stowage for an SMG or carbine for each crewmember and I've heard of even M240s being included with egress kits. Chopper crash considerations are different since you aren't leaving the aircraft when you go down, and are more likely to be close to the combat you were just engaged in from the air.

>>23618873
Sorry for the confusion, I get what you mean now. I swear I've seen some kits with space for a gun, but I can't remember which model it was.

>>23618883
Thanks for clearing the confusion, anon.

>Chopper crash considerations are different since you aren't leaving the aircraft when you go down, and are more likely to be close to the combat you were just engaged in from the air.
Sounds a lot more like something a MS pilot would face if their machine was knocked out, compared to jet pilots. This also pretty much justifies why pilots were carrying SMGs during A Baoa Qu, since a possible crash landing would mean fighting on foot under heavy fire (which ended up happening).

>>23603527
>>23584061
>>23616026
But if mecha are ground vehicles, why are their operators still called "pilots"? Not making a serious argument here.

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>>23595226
everyone gets basic training. That's why it's called "basic training." It is training that covers the basic skills needed to be a soldier.

Are you the retard that caused the other guy to make a thread on /k/? >>/k/64498216

>>23619771
that's more language and culture than anything. in italian/french, race car drivers are still called "pilota/pilote" although your everyday average driver on the road is "conduttore/conducteur"

>>23618883
My old man was a Cobra pilot in Vietnam. (Yes I am old) He was shot down several times. The first time he only had his issue gear, which included just a .38 revolver for self defense. Being in the jungle with enemy closing in and having just that really unnerved him, but the Little Bird that was overhead dropped a dufflebag with an AK and a bunch of magazines for him. After that he carried a CAR-15 in the cockpit with a bandolier of magazines. He said they had an entire conex full of off books weapons and a lot of guys carried extra guns all the time.

>>23597440
>see enemy plane go down, not sure if pilot ejected from cockpit
>go to check it out with buddy, we're both ready for a fight
>see wreckage, spot a guy nearby
>buddy goes to shoot him
>stop him
>it's just the fighter pilot, he's utterly harmless now that he's not flying the plane
This is how retarded you sound

>>23620188
I think you replied to the wrong post. That one was clearly arguing against OP(?).

>>23619771
Quick search say "pilot" is not strictly associated with flying vehicle in english, that's also how you name helmsman or a guide telling you where to go with your boat.
plus what >>23620050 said
aside helicopter have pilot and chopper are often considered part of the ground force
Looking up why we have spaceship "pilot" led to this reminder that originally NASA didn't want the human payload to "pilot" spacecraft.
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/13778/why-does-nasa-use-the-position-title-pilot-for-crew-members-who-are-not-in-ch

>>23618883
I wonder if as the war developed, space MS pilots went more with the jet/plane pistol route while ground MS were more inclined to bring a carbine/smg like chopper pilots

>>23619498
>>23620578
If you don't have to worry about ejecting your ability to take shit with you increases a lot. You'd still want the absolute basics on your person in case you have no choice but immediately bail, but as long as there's stowage for it there's nothing stopping a mobile suit pilot from taking more. A long gun, a prepacked backpack, maybe even some body armor if you want to get fancy would make sense as long as you can tuck them away somewhere safe but quickly accessible.

>>23620590
My thoughts was a space MS pilots who is forced to eject is likely going to wind up drifting, not every suit has a core fighter. In that scenario the priority is being picked up before the air runs out, and you aren't really in the position to go hunting or fishing, survival kits would be limited to rescue beacobs, spare air tanks and maybe fluid pouches built into space suit dispensers. Whereas if you're on earth you are more in a position to rough it for a week getting back to your own lines or fight off an enemy patrol.

>>23620590
>>23620625
A MS pilot fighting on the ground is more than often very near to the ground combat zone, which means that in the moments after their Mobile Suit being "shot down", there's a major likelihood that they will be facing combat after disembarking. Especially if your own troops are nearby to the fighting, and you're facing enemy infantry, you'd have to potentially join the fight on foot before being evacuated. If a pilot got stranded in the wilderness after the fight, than the survival experience would be more akin to crashed helicopter and plane pilots.

A MS pilot fighting in the void of space doesn't usually have to worry about enemy infantry after being forced to disembark. As a survival weapon it'd make little sense, unless the pilot was very lucky and could pull it on the enemy rescue team or grab on to a passing enemy spacecraft / Mobile Suit and even try hijacking it. It could also serve as a suicide weapon in the case that all hope for rescue seemed lost. But other than that, any gear that'd ensure simply surviving the void would be their top priority.
A pistol or a rifle would still be good to have in the case they needed to disembark for scouting, if the enemy tried to invade the cockpit to hijack it, or if they crashed in the midst of a battle while attacking or defending a base or a colony. Then there'd be a very likely chance of needing to join up on nearby friendly troops, and continue the fight on foot. I suppose that it would also be a good way to defend yourself in the void if the enemy sent a "clean-up" team with infantry.

>>23620803
>A MS pilot fighting in the void of space doesn't usually have to worry about enemy infantry after being forced to disembark
New anon, MS were literally built to operate in space colonies, AMBAC is one thing but they wouldn't need the ability to walk if it wasn't for space colonies.
It would also make little sense to have to retrain MS pilot on basic stuff once they are reassigned to surface operation.

>>23620850
I know that, and I was specifically talking about dogfights in the space between celestial objects, aka in the middle of nothingness. I mention fighting in space colonies later on in my post.

>>23580057
Let me ask you this scenario, OP. You're an organization looking to hire a good merc pilot to fly your Mobile Suits in combat. One is an excellent pilot, who has never received training in basic military skills like firearms. The other is a bad pilot, who has gone through basic military training. Which one would you rather hire? Which one is the actually better combat pilot here?

>if an enemy manages to invade the cockpit, the bad pilot can shoot the guy dead
>the excellent pilot would die and his MS would get stolen

>if an enemy managed to infiltrate, outflank or destroy the base security, the bad pilot can help defeat the invaders and defend himself and his colleagues
>the excellent pilot would be dead if his hiding spot was found

>if his mobile suit is shot down, the average pilot can fight on foot if he has to after disembarking
>the excellent pilot can do nothing but run or hide as he would be on the mercy of the enemy

>if he was out on a mission and he had to investigate or scout something on the ground, the bad pilot could easily fight his way back if he was ambushed
>the excellent pilot would not be able to do any of that, and if they did, they'd die in an ambush

>if the bad pilot managed to take someone a prisoner, he would be able to disembark and strip the prisoner from any possible weapons and take them in
>the excellent pilot is not able to strip them of weapons or put them in cuffs, and they manage to kill your colleague due to a hidden weapon

>if stranded in wilderness, the bad pilot can make it back thanks to the training he has and skill to hunt animals
>if stranded in wilderness, the excellent pilot will starve

>if he was attacked for any reason outside the cockpit, the bad pilot could defend himself
>the excellent pilot would bite the dust most likely

So I ask you again, which one is actually the good combat pilot here? Which one would you actually hire and deploy?

I'm kind of impressed at how autistic OP is. Almost zero capacity to intuit things.

>>23620625
>>23620803
The other thing, which is where they have more in common with an AFV crew, is that they may need to disembark for reasons other than escaping a disabled mobile suit. If you have room in the cockpit there's really no harm including some general purpose kit, even if it's less likely to be used in space.
Standardised equipment and economies of scale are a thing too, as well as versatility being a virtue for equipment you're packing for a bad day. You might be AEUG and in a Nemo, but all of a sudden you're assigned to a reentry episode. Probably going to wish you packed more than O2 canisters when you're hoofing it through the Amazon after escaping Jaburo.

>>23621275
Do you mean hiring for a private army or for DoD? Either way, the excellent pilot without training most likely. The bad pilot might not be able to kill any enemies before being killed but the excellent pilot might kill several before being killed. The only thing the bad pilot could do better is more likely survive back to the base after being shot down and maybe defend himself if he couldn't board MS. Still, the worth of a good pilot outweighs that I think. Firearms training and the like are mandatory for military pilots, because they're expected to do a lot more, but a hired mercenary or a PMC pilot should be different, right? Especially for a private army.

>if an enemy manages to invade the cockpit
I know it can happen but how likely even is it?

>if he was out on a mission and he had to investigate or scout something on the ground
Why would he leave the safety and firepower of MS to investigate something on the ground? He'd make himself vulnerable and worse leave his MS vulnerable as well. Surely, it can't be that important for him to get out and risk leaving MS unattended?

>managed to take someone a prisoner
Couldn't he just pick them up with the MS's hand?

>>23621275
Not gonna lie, this is a terrible way to get the point across. Survival/firearms training is not a zero sum game. That's the point of training.

>>23621409
>they may need to disembark for reasons other than escaping a disabled mobile suit
Genuinely what kind of reasons? It just feels risky to get out of a mobile suit and leave both in a more vulnerable position.

>>23621469
>>23621486
You know at this point you're arguing against things we regularly see people doing in the shows, right?

>>23621692
Look, if we were going to take that at face value then it means there's no argument in the first place because they always seem to have the pilots with guns

>>23621907
Do you seriously not understand the numerous reasons a real life AFV crew might need to dismount? And how many of those still apply to mobile suits?
Yeah no shit it's risky compared to being buttoned up, that's why you take additional equipment like rifles and plate carriers in case you have to anyway. Unless you have a better idea of how to carry out a field repair, or get eyes over a hill less conspicuously than walking your 18 metre tall robot high enough to get the optics over it. Or search an abandoned enemy position for useful information. Or check on the status of the crew of a disabled vehicle or mobile suit that's unresponsive. Or a ton of other things.
Obviously it's not ideal but there's no reason not to be equipped in case it's necessary. Being deployed doesn't always mean you're in frontline combat, but being outside frontline combat doesn't mean you're safe and shouldn't take precautions anyway. There's a reason logistics drivers get rifles.

>>23621275
Like the other anon I don't think it's a good way to push the point many agreed on already.
Too specific and context dependent. Plus, using the "good/bad" contrast we are forced to wonder if the "bad pilot" would survive 80% of the mech battle, for his 20% of on-foot training to matter.

A better answer would be
Putting 20% extra effort to train pilot to use a gun, you save yourself 80% of effort of replacing them that you've learned from experience.

>I don't know, maybe I'm just being nitpicky,

You're not just nitpicky you're plainly wrong, airforce pilots all have atleast minimum experience wielding weapons like rifles, its what you go through in basic training. Kill yourself

>>23620085
>He said they had an entire conex full of off books weapons
I wonder how much this happens. I've read the US military is really strict about service weapons for a variety of reasons, but also that a lot of nations' armed forces aren't as strict.

>>23622074
Generally speaking it's not like touching enemy weapons is forbidden, but soldiers in training need to be taught to be accountable for their weapon both as a point of discipline and because weapons going missing is a big deal. During peacetime, weapons are signed in and out, and bullet count is actually tracked. That said in actual times of war, not all rules are followed to the letter, and using enemy weapons is one of the last things anyone needs to complain about, as long as it gets the current job done. Who gives a shit if some guys in a unit carry captured rifles because they can shoot back more effectively with them than with the basic sidearms they were given? You just don't want an entire band of jackasses dropping their assigned weapons to pick up random shit off the ground and then they can't fight effectively because they can't be supplied with the correct ammo or maintain their captured weapons.

And as you say, some nations' armed forces are less strict about it probably because they're less well equipped in general. Not every unit can be resupplied to maximum effectiveness every day in wartime, so making use of enemy materiel and supplies is not a problem, if anything it's sometimes even necessary.

>>23621933
The post you replied to wasn't made by me. What you write makes sense, me thinks actually.

Wow this thread is dumb as fuck and OP is the dumbest of all.

>>23621485
>>23621989
Well, I probably could have expressed it better. My point was that the "bad pilot" has capability to perform all the tasks and situations that come with the job, which makes him a better fit to work as a combat pilot. The "good pilot" would fail at them, so it'd make no sense to hire him until he gets that training.

>>23621933
It also helps suits don't usually move alone. If one pilot gears up and gets down from their unit, the other units can keep watch.

>>23622101
Isn't one of the reasons why you don't want them using enemy weapons is to prevent a blue on blue incident? Another being that you wind up having a limited amount of ammunition since it's likely that they're not compatible with your side's munitions.

>>23625504
>Isn't one of the reasons why you don't want them using enemy weapons is to prevent a blue on blue incident
Yes, that's a major reason why using enemy weapons isn't a widespread practice, but it depends on the situation. E.g., >>23620085 describes an emergency scenario. Formally requisitioning extra service weapons might take a while, but the US army wouldn't be as uptight about captured enemy stockpiles, so they can be used for various miscellaneous reasons like arming irregular\militia forces, supplies for rear-guard units, used for training purposes, etc. Supposedly in Vietnam, some US special forces would use AKs because at a distance through the jungle where they can hear but not see, the sound of AK gunfire would not alarm the enemy too much.

>Another being that you wind up having a limited amount of ammunition since it's likely that they're not compatible with your side's munitions.
Sometimes in war they end up capturing not just enemy weapons but also enemy supplies. E.g., they stop a supply truck or overrun an enemy position. Of course, as long as your unit continues to win battles and advance through formerly enemy territory, that comes with the chance to pick up supplies and ammo.

>>23580189
OP youll soon find that you can board opposing MS and just kill the pilot with a gun,it happens all the time when they eject and want to get the drop on the other guy

>>23626326
You'd think more mobile suits would have transport capacity so you can board and capture enemy mechs without leaving your own drifting. Or at least copilots.