>>23616213
Yes. An enemy that has lost the will to fight should be allowed to surrender under all circumstances.

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>>23616213
No

>>23616213
He wouldn't have allowed his enemies to surender if he were in Rustal's shoes.

>>23616333
Still makes me mad 9 years later. Sasuga Okada.

>>23616358
You mean like Jasley?

Why didn't Rustal just kill Mikazuki while he was outside the gundam.

>>23616359
Do you at least accept it wouldn’t have changed their fate at all?

>>23616213
The only circumstance that Orga being allowed to surrender would make sense is if it came with the condition that they turn over Mikazuki and the Barbatos which he would not have agreed to anyway
And Mikazuki would never allow for Orga to surrender himself peacefully

>>23616213
Yes, on the condition the gundams are turned over along with the pilots too, so that a public execution can be made using their own gundams to smash them up.

>>23616410
But he’d never do that

>>23616213
>comes out of first conflict with everyone flourishing and respectable members of society
>throws it all away to join hands with a literal 10 IQ retard who just wants to break everything
Someone so dumb and fickle can't be trusted even after surrendering. With how OP Mika was you might as well think of Tekkadan as Lu Bu

>>23616213
He should have offered to become Rustal's sex slave and told him Mika follows any orders his gives

Rustal fans are mentally ill

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>>23616474

>>23616390
It he'd successfully killed Rustal there would have been nobody to lead them against Mcgillis. Could you imagine Iok being in charge?

>>23616488

Handsome Jamitov completely winning was honestly refreshing.

>>23616492
Does make me wonder if Gaelio would have stepped up to lead if Rustal had died. There is no way he would risk his revenge against Mcgillis being undermined by Ioks legendary stupidity.

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>>23616492
>It he'd successfully killed Rustal there would have been nobody to lead them against Mcgillis

Gaelio. Would have been even more kino too, because not only did nearly die from being back stabbed by Mcgillis after enabling Mcgillus as his friend to become the way he is, Gaelio would also finally assuming the responsibilty of being a leader, something didnt take seriously and tried his hardest to get out of at every turn.

>>23616492
Iok is loved by his men (unlike Gaelio)

>expect a stalemate at least
>lolno the corrupt government just wins
>all the heroes either die or go into exile
What is the moral of this story?

>>23616579
>Tekkadan
>Heroes
The only hero in IBO was Agnika Kaieru probably.

>>23616579
If Nic Cage ever shows up and tells you that stealing the Constitution makes you the undisputed president 5ever, don't believe him

>>23616492
No. Because Iok was standing in front of Rustal to block the shot, or did you forget?

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>>23616213
he was winning. why would he surrender?

>>23616590
The literal who seven stars would have supported Macky if Gaelio hadn't survived, his plan wasn't so stupid

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>>23616492
I love how we’re never beating the allegations of not watching our own shows

>>23616607
>implying the Dainslef projectile wouldn't shatter like a twig against Iok's manly chest

>>23616590
That’s why you steal the declaration instead. That’s the one with the real legitimacy.

>>23616333
i do think it was funny that rustal went to all the effort of planting an illegal murder rod in their forces, when they all along actually had an illegal murder rod and were willing to use it

>>23616213
No. You don't negotiate with terrorists.

>>23616921
Anon…where do you think they got it from?

I still have to finish season 2

>>23616539
What was the point of bringing Gaelio back when Rustal was the one who did everything?

Ends too happy. Coward bitch ending.

>>23617366
Humiliating McGillis by making him lose against another Gundam.

>>23617610
Nah, if they had gone with a harsher ending then it'd be more likely you'd get a manga or game about taking down Rustal. The way they resolved things also stop other people from undoing the ending and Rustal's victory, since it'd need to involve basically destroying the setting.

>>23616579
That revolutions force societies to change in order to quell them

>>23616579
Not to blindly follow retards like Orga, Mcgillis, and Gjallarhorn's old Seven star leaders.

I like how Japan universally hates the storyline of season 2 to the point that only season 1 is used to sell gunpla and make spinoffs. No one liked how Tekkadan was treated.

>>23617721
>No one liked how Tekkadan was treated.
The only people in tekken who really got fucked over was Orga, who spent the whole second season being forced to take the cuck decision as a leader every fucking time, and then he got cheated out of a mobile suit twice (giving Flauros to Shino, and not even getting to use his own Shiden), Akihiro getting shat on in life constantly because "character development" even though the man is a side character he going through so many tradegies he rightfully earned the name "Space guts" and alot of people think he should have barbatos instead, and Hush who for no reason is the whipping boy of the group seen as the bad guy for being brought in to take Mika's job after Mika is already severely crippled and no one else wants to step up to give him a break. He also got cheated out of a gundam, because how do you hype this man up as a new protag, elude to his core motivation of being a MS pilot so many times and you give the fucking gundam to Shino? Literally everyone else in tekkadan stay the same and largely irrelevant. The best thing about S2 was literally McGillis's retard rebellion so much so that if Tekkadan wasnt even their for the whole Seasonit would have been even better than what we got.

>>23616618
>The real Eisai Haramasukoi!

>>23617721
I was surprised to see them seething about Julietta and Iok after IBO S2 was released on G Gen Eternal

Reminder that SRW is too scared to use IBO in a mainline game because they know they can't change Rustal winning.

>>23617833
I'm not Julietta is the Self insert of the one who basically ruined the show, alledgly

>>23617844
It does seem to be an executive order. DD just isn't doing the whole Gjallarhorn conflict at all after the timeskip, even though they had the MA battle. So, it seems like they can't use Rustal and co as villains and so are just ignoring all that rather than being forced to play out the show's story.

>>23617866
Nagai was fixated on having Tekkadan killed at all costs as well

>>23617721
>No one liked how Tekkadan was treated.
I do. I liked it.
But I hated IBO, so

>>23617721
>I like how Japan universally hates the storyline of season 2 to the point that only season 1 is used to sell gunpla and make spinoffs
Huh? Are you retarded? We just got the MG Vidar not too long ago, which apparently sold enough preorders they made the MG Barbatos Lupus immediately.

>>23617879
There's a difference though, the issue isnt that they were both trying kill off tekkadan, but the execution of it that's the problem. Remember how Nagai came out and said that people were interpreting Carta's death wrong, it wasnt suppose to be seen as them in the right? Season 2 is literally that moment, but the whole season. That's why season 2 has some of the most egregious mischaracterizations and and writing asspulls. Okada and the people siding with her on the writing team, did not understand the show they were righting for. This is why we still have arguments about people seething about Rustal to this day when it's shown that he's just trying keep things stable.

>>23617958
Carta was the one who wanted to fight them.

>>23617987
Not the point though. It's the fact that they ignored her surrender because they were still mad about Biscuit. That moment suppose to be seen as them taking things too far and loosing there sense of humanity. Everyone just saw it as "Yo based Mika!" Like unironically.

>>23617997
To further drive in my point they were mad tha Biscuit was killed by her, but he died as a casuality of war, not because she personally went of her way to kill him out of spite. The moment was to show they they are still to immature to willing go to war and a
Be ablw to properly accept casualites.

>>23618001
Except she specifically targeted him. Watch again zoomie

>>23617366
Without him mcgillis would have speed blitzed rustal. Unfortunately for mcgillis gaelio had brought his lucky frying pan with him when he got betrayed which blocked the mobile suit sword that impaled his cockpit

>>23616740
At that resolution you'd be forgiven for not being able to read subtitles.

>>23617997
Because she'd been a retard treating it like a game. With her choreography, speeches, etc. Someone taking it seriously and not listening to someone calling time out after fucking around and getting their shit wrecked is different from a surrender from a sophisticated opponent.

>>23618457
>Because she'd been a retard treating it like a game.
No that was how she was taught in the academy how to conduct war. Again that went over everyones head and people missing that is why people don't understand Rustal at all. Carta's understanding of war is one that's 300 years old and has never been applied to any actual battles because their literally hasnt been any for so long. It's as if she wasnt taking it seriously it's that Gjallarhorns way of doing things is severely outdated and when you have groups like Tekkadan emboldening like actual criminal mafias and militias by demonstrating just how washed the establishment, there's now a massive risk of another massive war as bad as the calamity war occuring. Another thing about that moment why it's seen as bad is that it's seen as a complete rejection to the idea of having rules and conduct in warfare. You throw that out the wonder you stepping one inch closer to another Calamity war, this is also why Ein shouldn't have ended up the way he did he was the absolute perfect foil to Mika and the only really able to challenge his way of thinking. People missing the point of Carta's death was the beginning of the down fall, alot of what happened in S1 was Nagai's own mistakes, but like i said, S2 was literally that moment, the nearly whole rest of the season.

I always wince when the VAs are ordered to show up to conventions and such and have to put on a smile. They hated the ending of the show as much as anyone and its always awkward hearing them give these super generic cringe statements about how they need to keep going like orga told them to. Idk why the people in charge don't just make new material where the remaining members of tekkadan are given a better ending and maybe some closure for the characters that died. Shit is awkward as fuck.

I actually liked the ending and thought it was exactly how shit should go. I mean what the fuck did people expect when a band of poorly equipped space rats decided to pick a fight with the defacto government? They weren't even heroic space rats that could be narratively justified underdogs coming out on top, they were just as much villains as the corrupt gjallarhorn. No no, Rustal looks evil so he must be right? Fuck Iok though, he should have suffered more.

>>23618554
I mean, you don't usually shit on the director of a project like that, especially since it wasn't a bomb or anything.

That said, the fact they seem to be even stopping games from giving us a "Rustal defeated" scenario is silly.

>10 years later /m/'s jimmies are still Rustal'd
How did he do it

>>23618554
They shouldn't have taken the job then. The story was written before Okada was even hired. She actually convinced Nagai to lighten the mood by only killing Orga, Mika, and Akihiro.

>>23618577
I expected a story to be crafted in a way that it followed an interesting arc for the characters, developed a compelling story, and wrapped the details up by the end. My bad!

>>23618675
Even on /m/ people don't understand that protagonist =/= hero. Rustal was objectively the morally good guy, he just happened to be the antagonist. Looking like space hitler didn't help his case either. I guarantee you that if you swapped chocoman's more heroic design with him people wouldn't be as up in arms.

>>23618478
Her academy is wrong if that's how they do it. The basics of the basics is to train how you fight. She had 5 Grazes to Tekkadan's one Barbatos and they were outside their cockpits grandstanding rather than, if they were serious about wanting to parley, A: not blocking the trains with threat of violence, and B: using the speakers in the mobile suits to talk.
She fought and lost miserably.

>>23618754
Nah, false flag killiung your own allies to justify your warcrimes is not "objectively the morally good guy" by a longshot. The closest to a "morally good guy" would actually be McGillis who wanted to take down a corrupt institution and whose methods would have had the absolute minimum of bloodshed had they worked.

>>23616579
>What is the moral of this story?
Shit happens.

>>23618763
McGillis lost any moral high ground the second he schemed to kill off his friends for no real reason other than the plot demanded it. Really, really fucking stupid when they would have joined his cause.

>>23618797
Still not as dumb as not-nuking your own capital ships.

>>23618804
It's dumber, because arguably it's that choice that led to his eventual downfall to begin with. McGillis would have been in a massively better position in season 2 if he had Gaelio and Carta backing him.

>>23618797

I don't disagree that McGillis had no moral ground to stand on with his ambitions, but Gaelio and Carta's death were fundamentally vital to him gaining the sheer amount of power that he did. McGillis's ultimate failing was not just double-tapping the Kimaris back in season 1 when he "killed" Gaelio. Had he actually killed him there and then, Rustal would have had far less of a political position to use against McGillis when the Revolution began.

>>23618797
>>23618810
Carta Issue on your side is not a net positive. Her family name? Yes. Her involved in things and able to therefore fuck them up? 2nd Iok.

>>23618814
I disagree, she isn't even close to Iok tier of being an active detriment. And if I'm being pragmatic even if she isn't super competent she would likely wind up getting killed along the way which would make for an effective martyr figure. You aren't wrong that her name is the biggest benefit but you don't get that name without her.

>>23618825
She'd be just as bad as Iok seeking glory and reliving the glory days of Gjallarhorn trying to contain Hashmal.

>>23618797
He'd have a very hard time convincing them to help him in burning everything down. Both of them were staunch believers in the Gjallarhorn upper class superiority. When he suggested offhand a few times Galieo might want to chill out about Tekkadan and Kudelia and kept getting "No those filthy Martians need to learn their place under the boots of their betters" it probably didn't give him much confidence that Gaelio would want to help him.

>>23618829
Without Iok's plot armor she dies when she tries something stupid and you are left with an excellent rallying piece and the issue family's gundam.

>>23618813
Mcgillis shouldn’t have needed to double tap considering he drove a mobile suit sized sword straight through the cockpit of gaelios ms. Double tapping wouldn’t have made any difference when you have that level of plot armor.

>>23616213
Rustal would've killed them all immediately after they surrendered while telling the public that they never did.

>>23618760
>Her academy is wrong if that's how they do it.

YES THAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT, HOLY SHIT. Again Nagai could implemented Carta better so everything explain could have been better conveyed what moment happens, but like i said alot of shit over alot of peoples head.

>>23618763
There’s no way you actually believe this

Carta was a retard but she didn't deserve it. I could have fixed her.

>>23618829
>She'd be just as bad as Iok seeking glory and reliving the glory days of Gjallarhorn trying to contain Hashmal
No she would have been gaslit into helping McGillis overthrow old Gjallarhorn, She would have been the first ones tricked into getting AVS surgery as an adult like Ein so she could take her family Gundam and so that McGillis run a shit ton photo ops about under his philophisy and wielding the Might of forbidden gundams, they could reform Gjallarhorn to be better. And then she'd be put down and made a maytr after been sent blindly into a completely unwinnable battle. For this scenario to happen where McGillis rises up with Carta and Gaelio backing him. That would mean that Rustal would have to turn to Tekkadan to stop then he would have to burn them immediately after McGillis is cleaned up. IBO would have probably been better if it were set up like that.

>>23618831
Gaelio probably could be convinced if he actually talked to him and carta worships the ground he walks on and would do anything he asked.

>>23618831
To be fair Mika attacked Gaelio for no reason, he even apologized to Biscuit's sisters so he kinda had a point. He also befriended an insane martian so he does care about minorities

>>23618843
He did the same to Iok (using Bael even) and he survived. Macky is just not good at properly killing people.

>>23618952
Iok is the poster child of plot armor

>>23618900
Yeah but suppose he talked to him and Gaelio decided he wanted to uphold his noble family and privileges. Then his plan is over because Gaelio will either immediately report him to Izanario or report him if he ever makes a move like he's going to betray them. He tried to feel Gaelio out and always got a negative. He'd need ridiculous blind faith in him or deep insights into his character he wouldn't have in order to feel confident that confiding in Gaelio wouldn't just immediately tank his dreams right there

>>23618964
Maybe, but jumping straight to "guess I'll kill my childhood friends in cold blood" is just as extreme, even for a butt bungled fuckboy like McGil-ass.

>>23618964
>Gaelio will either immediately report him to Izanario or report him if he ever makes a move like he's going to betray them
Anon Gaelio was also tired of Gjallarhorn's corruption. The one reason Macky killed him was because he and Carta would distract him from his path to become the second coming of Agnika Kaieru, he says so as much just before he dies.

>>23618964
You got a cutscene of a memory way back when Gaelio was like the first one to really know the kinda hell McGillis was in. It's why ever since they were kids he kept opening up to McGiliis, there was literally no chance of Gaelio turning on McGillis and reporting him to Fareed, It was only until McGillis gaslit Carta to attack early, sent her to her death and thought nothing of it. Turning Ein into a Huge Graze and try then murdered him outright, Did Gaelio turn on him. If McGillis had done literally none of that he would've still had Gaelio's support and the Baudlin's family backing no strings attached in his quest to reform Gjallarhorn.

Macky's muh bael was the best part of his character.

My big problem with IBO is that it not only fails, but REJECTS the core theme of Gundam as a franchise:

It is the role of the young to change the broken system of the old.

Every Gundam show, even up to fucking Quacks, does this theme. Except IBO, where Rustal, who is EXPLICITLY the old system, gets an unambiguous win. Even Hathaway's Flash ends with Mafty's death being the spark that causes the dissolution of the EFF's power.

Rustal's victory calcifies IBO into a static world run by old men that will never change.

>>23619045
You didn't watch enough Gundam if that was your take away. Literally nothing changes and any of the UC shows, hell Zeta by the end of Zeta going into ZZ, the whole message of "we need to change and adapt to a new way of living, the newtypes will show us the way" That message is immediately beaten down by Haman's treachery. Unicorn? Frontal's entire motivation was "This shit is getting old, I'm tired of having to larp as Char and keep propagating a senseless war that doesn't help us gain any favorable standing and just gives the federation more and more reasons to clamp down on us". and it's Young Banagher and the most egregious of all, Young Minerva Zabi, that makes sure that the system still continues as it does. The core message of Gundam is that major changes need to be made in order for Humanity to prosper, it does not matter who brings it. The change just needs to happen, issue is no one is sure how to best make that change.

>>23619067
To further hammer how in much you don't really understand Gundam, even in IBO, by your definition of "Gundam's core theme", Gjallarhorn, after Macky's rebellion and Tekkadan's uprising in success, had to be dismantled and reformatted into a democratic like system because old Gjallarhorn's system was too broken. so by your logic with Hathaway's flash, IBO still upheld that theme.

>>23619074
for>>23619045, it's the extension to the post above.

>>23619074
>democratic like system
Where Rustal got magically elected and his biggest bootlicker is next in line to succeed him

>>23619078
It's like complaining that George washington became the first US President immediately after they won the Revolutionary war with the british.

>>23619074
>>23619078
>>23619086
Also by you're logic if you remember, Rustal himself was the Young blood trying to institute reform into the old system as he didn't agree with the Fareed and the other two eldest members in the seven stars, because they were corrupt and negligent, so much so that he had to do all the shady wet work dealings to keep things afloat. So again, by your definition, IBO DID upheld that core theme.

>>23619094
>he didn't agree with the Fareed and the other two eldest members in the seven stars, because they were corrupt and negligent
This was never shown. In fact Iznario helped him out in the end.

>Rustal
>Young
Guy must be around 50

>>23619116
Naw, this is anime. Dude is elderly, so late 20s.

>>23619114
>This was never shown
Of the two people who were only ones to figure Something was up with McGillis from day one, Rustal was one of them, He wanted to do something about Fareed from the start but he wasn't allowed because there was evidence he could point to and Fareed had seniority. By the time he's in a more favorable position to actually press him, McGillis has already comatosed Fareed and taken his spot. This is but one of the many things That made Rustal realize the chinks in Gjallarhorn's system.

>>23619131
>He wanted to do something about Fareed from the start
This was never shown. He knew McGillis was being abused but he never did something about it. He even made fun of him after McGillis took Iznario's place.

>>23618952
>Macky is just not good at properly killing people.
he never managed to fully use the AV system like mika and ein did either

>>23618976
He disliked it but he went along with it every single time. See Dort. He talked about how sloppy and mean the regulatory bureau’s plan was to incite the workers but he still justified it and assisted it

>>23619131
> Rustal realize the chinks in Gjallarhorn's system.
But Fareed doesn’t sound like an Asian name

>>23618973
Autism works in extremes

>>23618875
But to say 'she did nothing wrong because she was taught wrong' is wrong.

>>23619521
I never said she did anything wrong, i said that everyone miss the point of scene.

>>23619525
*She didnt do anything wrong

>>23619136
He pretty much had a convo with Mcgillis when he was little where he realized the boy had a dark side and dangerous ambitions but there wasn't really anything he could do about at the time he was just a child and had yet to actually do anything.

>>23619116
That IS young blood in the political world. The "young world leaders" group were all in their late 30s to 40s. When you can't really get a leg up until middle age and most of the guys at the time are one foot in the grave that's young for the job.

>>23619599
>Dangerous ambitions
All he said was Bael

>>23619525
>Because she'd been a retard treating it like a game.
>No that was how she was taught in the academy how to conduct war.
What you're saying is
>She is not culpable because that is how she was taught.

>>23619640
No what im saying is that
>The entirety of Gjallarhorn is not capable of war because they're hasnt been a legit war in literally 300 years. That's why Carta can be top of her class in military warfare but also seem incompetent when comes to applying it. Gjallarhorn's way is severely outdated and useless against the rise of guerella and informal warfare. It's literally what happened when all hell broke lose and the conduct warfare was change drastically in WW1.

How is it that i've explained this point to you numerous times and you still arent getting it?

>>23619067
>the whole message of "we need to change and adapt to a new way of living, the newtypes will show us the way"
This was literally never the message of Gundam. The stuff with Lalah and later Kamille and Haman is meant to decisively show that, no, space magic does not resolve conflicts of interest or resolve conflict in toto.

>>23619619
That's how big a joke Bael was. The real reason the other families didn't side with Rustal or McGillis later was because they were unsure who would actually win because McGillis had already spooked them by engineering the deaths of 2 heirs and had formed his own competent super fleet with the aid of the revolutionary fleet. S1 says that all the other families are basically useless and the Arianrhod is the only competent fighting force in Gjallarhorn, so all those old guys were useless parasites trying to play both sides.

>>23619748
No you retard, when they meant newtypes, they didnt mean "space magic niggas" they meant people who's adapted to living in space. They meant that we shouldnt need to be fighting over the earth when we could just be advancing space living to be better. Haman fucked that up by invading the earth again when she has the feds' balls in a vice grip to get them to fuck off and give them better trade deals.

>>23617997
To be fair she killed their friend while waxing poetic about justice and practicing group poses with her crew at every turn. She acted with zero gravity towards anything nor regret as she saw herself as a heroic knight smiting dastardly villains. If they weren't already seeing red just from the mere act of Biscuit getting killed her attitude and taunting wasn't going to go unanswered

>>23618976
I mean he seemed to have genuine affection for Almeria and was sincere when he told Gaelio that he was absolutely going to fuck his underaged sister. Why isn't she a distraction?

>>23619801
>Why isn't she a distraction?
Because she's not an immediate successor like Gaelio and with Gaelio out of the way but her as his bride, he immediately has control of two family factions instead of just one. Almeria's relationship was another tip off that got lost in wave of "based pedo chocoman" memes.

>>23619812
I mean memes aside, considering how he acts towards her even after his gambit got revealed I doubt he saw her as nothing but another piece on the board, especially considering we know he had sentimentality towards Gaelio despite doing what he felt he had to in order to secure Bael.

>>23619832
>I doubt he saw her as nothing but another piece on the board,
He did until he had is come to jesus moment around the final battle when the realization hits that everything that he was doing was turning up to be unnecesssay and not worth all the bridges he burnt. When that happens when your whole life's goal turns out to be nowhere what you thought it would be, you feel that you need to double down and force it to work at that point.

>>23616213

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_voXQhQxt-Q

>>23619735
>Because an institution is ass, it is impossible for a person on the field to make decisions.
Ok.

>>23619768
The problem with this is that living on Earth is objectively better than living in a space colony. /Space colonies need to actively, energetically maintain an Earthlike environment while also performing the exact same maintained tasks any downwell facility would have to.
This is why G-Reco is the final say on UC: industry is best in space, people are not. Hell, Tomino goes so far with the "one habitable planet PERIOD" view that the ultimate goal is use rockets to shepherd Earth to another galaxy.

>>23619309
Also the part where he took in child killer Ein & supported every moment of Ein being able to kill more child soldiers.

>>23620136
Bro...how the fuck are you still missing the point? No is making excuses for Carta, the point of her role was to highlight why one of many reasons why Gjallarhorn is a flawed and failing enforcement system.

>>23620139
G-RECO is a terrible example, as not only does it take place so far into UC's future where colonies all but phased out. But again demonstrates that in all that time they still havent moved beyond relying on the earth and really thought about venturing in space. G-reco doesnt really show that humans genuinely tried and ultimately failed, it just shows they they still never really made the beyond a few fringe moments in the span of that huge gap from Victory to G-reco. I would agree otherwise if it were for that massive time skip where seemingly nothing happened in between those to titles that definitely stop humans from colonizing space no matter how much they tried, but again my initial point is that the theme of Gundam is how every acknowledges changes are need, but now one really knows what that best way to change should be.

>>23620196
If it werent*

>>23620196
But that’s after Turn A so your argument doesn’t work

>>23618754
>if Rustel looks like Mcgillis then we'd have threads about how based and awesome it was that Char fucking WON for once and people would want his babies more so unironically
Yeah I can see that.

>>23620196
It kinda does, because even in Turn A they did the same that's been happening in all the other UC shows, Return earth start another war over itwithout really venturing and pioneering into space. They at least had the excuse of Turn A hard resetting everything and even then they really don't because the Moonrace still has all the tech to be able to do so. But to better clarify i think G-reco is a bad example of being proof that humans arent meant to live in space, because you aren't really seeing Humanity actually try and fail at it numerous times, you're just seeing them still cling for control of the earth sphere, not advancement being made to really adapt to living in space. Like they aren't naturally being stopped they just wont really consider it after all this time still. That's what i'm getting at.

>>23620310
Oh that's for>>23620290

>>23620163
Rustal is also a child killer, I thought he was the hero of IBO

>>23620365
Ein killed like no children, all his confirmed kills kept getting retconned.

>>23620310
Why the fuck would they venture further into space when people get mentally fucked just by living in the same solar system? Your idea is like giving an addict more drugs.

>>23620377
Yeah in the end what did he do to deserve being called a devil? Just get into Edmonton and destroy a few buildings?

>>23620383
To stop fighting over the earth and further unlock the secrets of the universe. People were living in space colonies just fine for those most part as far as health goes. It's always retard politics that get them sucked back into fights over the earth. It doesnt really make sense that humanity began devolving so much that living in space was just no longer viable, in the time span of like what like thousands or hundreds of years, advances and discoveries should have been made to better the conditions in space if they were honestly attempting to focus on living in space and it just wasn't working out.

>>23620389
Selling his mortal flesh to become a god of war. But in his defense he took numerous deathblows saving Mcgillis and Gaelio, you damn sure can't call him a coward or spineless.

>>23620365
Hush, Mika and Akihiro were all legal aged tax paying adults with jobs.

>>23620401
Wasn't he in a coma when that decision was made?

>>23617844
Given how 30s developed them, the hero faction would give Tekkadan a legitimate alternative to McGillis, resulting with them not getting involved in his conflict with Rutsal.

IBO ending would rather make a bad end scenario or something.

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>>23618692
>baby's first classic tragedy
It was a story that rewarded and punished heroes for they good and bad decisions. Orga became the big and important commander he wanted to be at the start of S1, but he couldn't overcome his pointed out many times flaw of recklessness. So, instead of finding satisfaction with how he had already improved lives of Tekkadan and allowed them an option of peaceful retirement, he jumped onto an opportunity of making them the big shots of Mars.
And this is why he lost. But because Orga still was an overall striving to be good man, this paid dividends and allowed him to save most of Tekkadan from his major fuckup, thanks to the aid of those they had helped previously.
This contrast to McGillis, who sacreficed everything and everyone to realize his dream, and he ended up killed by his friend during his last lone rush. After only having Hitler to give him one last bus ride to it.

>>23620196
>still havent moved beyond relying on the earth
BECAUSE THERE IS NO MOVING BEYOND EARTH
THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT

>>23620395
>advances and discoveries should have been made
fucking liberals
real life progress is not a 4x tech tree

>>23620644
In DD, Tekkadan is still siding with McGillis. It's just Rustal is a non-entity.

>>23620651
You're supposed to give a shit when everything falls apart in a tragedy. It's an awful tragedy because everyone tuned out by halfway through season 2 and no one really gave a damn by the time it all ended. There was no viewer investment left.

It's pretty telling that it was the big netflix gundam english release series but the one that made the big splash was WFM coming out after, and that's even with it featuring all the no beam weapons edgy warcrime meme elements that a lot of westerners had been wanting.

>>23620651
Rustal only won because of Julieta's asspull, remember that

>>23620707
What asspull? I’ll wait this is gonna be hilarious if you say Flauros

>>23620636
Yes, it was Gaelio who made the decision (even if he got kind of tricked by Macky in the end).

>>23620693
This. Everyone's IQ dropped by like 100 points in the second half so it was hard to feel anything about the characters.

>>23620713
How so?

>>23620737
Okada, she didnt understand the show she was supposed to be helping write for and it shows alot. That's s1 tone and s2 tone feel very different from each other.

>>23620661
>>23620664
>real life progress is not a 4x tech tree

Never said it was but like i said it's been like several hundreds of years, even longer since victory. There more than enough time make signicant advances that was Humanities main focus instead of fighting for the earth.

>>23620395
>To stop fighting over the earth and further unlock the secrets of the universe
And pray tell, why would people who are going crazy over not living on Earth want to venture even further out? Who is this completely emotionally detached entity that will guide humanity, who's crazy over earth, even further out into space? Even La Gu, the maintainer of Venus Globe and Rosario Ten, is still tied to the Earth and he's as impartial as it gets. His entire plan is to take the entire Earth and move it to a new galaxy using the gloves when things get bad.

And the technologies made for space, like the suspended sleep, aren't without side effects. Diana is dying. This was actually confirmed by Akiman who said she had about a year left to live in the cancelled Turn A sequel, and La Gu is turning into a skeleton.

>>23620693
>it featuring all the no beam weapons edgy warcrime meme elements that a lot of westerners had been wanting.
That's the thing about S2 though. All of those promises except the no beam weapons was phased out of season 2, even the no beam weapons because hashimal was unearthed. This because everyone just lost the plot of what the show was really suppose to be about. S2 Turned the show into like this endearing story of young kids making a name for themselves in the world of adults, when the intial point was suppose to be that they foolish band of kids are destablizing an already wobbly system and plunging the state of the world into another calamity war situation because they think they know more than they actually do. The very ending of S1 even tells you that because of Tekkadan, the increase in Child soldiers and human debris grew to even higher levels of us. S2 the whole just seems to sweep this under the rug.

>>23620693
I cared, so this disproves your point of "everyone".
Try to come with a coherent reason why nobody should care. Most of time I see
>Mika
Which is fair, Orga is more of actual protagonist. I am disappointed that they didn't show Mika being more normal before his first kill for Orga.
>Tekkadan wasn't good guys anymore
They executed their own captives at the start of season 1. It never was about them being good guys (though they had good qualities), it was about them trying to survive and trying to find happiness in a world that was cruel to them in the first place.
>they trusted McGillis
Only after it was evident that rivals in Space Yakuza were hellbent on killing them of and their friends within Space Yakuza. And the moment McGillis fucked up they attempt to sell him out

Gaelio should have been the protagonist.

>>23616333
>>23616359
This was the worst written part in all of IBO. There was absolutely NO reason Julia's sword should've thrown a Dainsleif off course. Rustal should've died right then and there but the writers gave him plot armor. I dont care if Tekkadan dies in the end, Rustal should have ABSOLUTELY fucking died in that scene.

>>23616488
Only because the writers forced it. In any other setting with any competent writer he wouldve died.

>>23620832
First off you need to ask the question, who the fuck ever said they had to stay off earth entirely? The intial idea of contolism and what original Zeon founded on is that we are suppose grow accustomed to not needing to rely on earth as much, we can still go there and preserve it, but we should be getting to a point where we can live in places that are more than just earth so we don't have to keep fighting over the fucking earth. You bring up all these examples of these technologies failing as reasons why we can't live in space but that's not the reason nor the main point of Gundam. The point of Gundam is that we as humans never moved on beyond the earth because we keep getting it dumb wars about who gets to control the earth. CCA happens because even when the shackles are free and idea of moving away from the federation starts to become more acceptable, first thing Haman does is start conquest on the earth. Years later after federation has lost authority just stopped overly policing the colony guess what cosmo Babylonia does? Try and conquest the earth. The Same thing with the Jovians even with theyre struggle for resources they didnt they saw a weak federation and when to go conquest the earth. Hell in Turn A when all Diana wanted to do was just spend her final days on earth, set up a nice colony for the moonrace to re-associate with the earth people, and she did her absolute damndest not to impose and offend, even that turned war over the earth, because Guin was a cunt high off if the delusion that he owns the earth. The real message of Turn A and G reco isn't that humans dont belong in space. The message of them is that all these long years we are still fighting over who gets to control the Earth.

>>23620891
>who the fuck ever said they had to stay off earth entirely
You think people who fly out of the solar system are ever going to have the chance to return to it? Where are you going to find these people who will do it? Living in space is already unpopular and it pushes people to their mental limit and you think people will willingly just leave? The only reason the colonies in Turn A left is because there was a massive global war going on and they escaped from it.

>The point of Gundam is that we as humans never moved on beyond the earth because we keep getting it dumb wars about who gets to control the earth
Yea because everyone wants to live on it. THEY want to live on it, not some other guy.

>>23620882
The worst thing is that Mika didn't kill her when part of Mika's core character is his ruthlessness towards his enemies.

>>23620899
Just because everyone wants to live on it doesnt mean have to keep fighting wars over it for control. That's what your really missing about all this though. It's not a natural desire or phenomenom that keeps people wanting to return to earth, it's selfish arrogance and entitlement at makes people think they have a right to rule the earth so they rally others into joining them to fight over the earth and convince them that they are the ones who should be ruling. It's because we lack the proper tools we need to live in space, we had them sense the beginning of U.C. 's start. It's not technology being to far out of reach is as Char said in Zeta, it's because we are weighed down by gravity, and if you want another analogy, then it's quite literally crabs in a bucket mentality.

>>23620916
Except it is a natural desire. It's human nature.

>it's because we are weighed down by gravity
Which is human nature. Even Char himself couldn't go past Mars and the excuse he gives is that he couldn't sense Lalah's spirit past Mars, which is cope. Newtype ghosts are beyond space and time. And he doesn't even interact with her ghost like Amuro does. And even Banagher, who became THE PERFECT NEWTYPE gave up on it and went back to being human.

Even the Turn X drifting back into the Earth orbit is a sign that that descendants of whoever got sent into deep deep space centuries or millennia before the end of Black History were trying to return. What are the chances that a MS with psycommu and a bunch of other human tech in it just drifts back to Earth? Like 0. They were trying to come back. Not even the dead can leave it alone.

>>23620882

>Shino actually manages to fire at the bridge with Rustal and Iok on it. Due to some plot contrivances through Iok ends up surviving unharmed while everyone else onboard the bridge is killed.
>Shino still ends up being killed shortly after taking the shot by Julieta. Mika critically injures Julieta on the same level as he did to Ein and manages to get the wreckage of the Flauros back, only for Tekkedan to find Shino's corpse with a satisfied look on it.
>Gallorhorn falls into sheer chaos and Iok holds the highest rank to lead them. Since Rustal had died much of Gallorhorn's forces remain neutral in the conflict, but Iok manages to amass a retaliation fleet to attack Mars with the intention of killing McGillis and Tekkedan in retaliation.
>Julieta's wounds are grievous enough that she will never be able to move again on her own. Yamazin Toka offers her a chance to be merged with a Mobile Armor from the Calamity Wars that had been modified for a Alaya Vijnana System user to pilot it rather than an AI. Julieta agrees without hesitation to become a monster to take revenge for Rustal.
>Iok announces his intentions to completely annihilate the surface of Mars if McGillis and Tekkadan's leaders are not brought to him by the time his fleet arrives. Nobliss Gordon arranges for Kudelia to be used as a hostage to lure out Orga and other key members of Tekkadan.
>Given Iok's insane claims of destroying Mars's surface, McGillis is able to convince Arae Proto to arrange for the Mars Branch of Gallorhorn to aid in keeping the planet from being attacked, giving the Revolutionary forces one last chance to turn the tide.
>In the end, Tekkedan launch's one last attack into space to stop Iok's attack while Orga and a group of his go to rescue Kudelia. Gaelio defeats McGillis in battle. Iok is killed in space by Akihiro, at the cost of Akihiro giving his own life to do so. Mikazuki and Julieta fight to the death.

Better or worse?

>>23620933
I'll take anything but fucking dainsleifs at this point

>>23620932
You still aren't getting it, while it maybe human nature to want to be near earth or on earth, it's not in human nature for us to keep fighting wars over the earth. That's the part that makes your arguement fall flat. So we have in our nature to want to live around earth,cool. Why should we then have to battle for who gets to ordain who gets to live on earth and who doesn't. That's the core of the arguement. It's why are we fighting each other over the earth, when we could be working together to expand around the earth and then branch out even further into space? Essentially why aren't we doing what the guys in Macross are fucking doing? The answer? Somebody thinks they are entitled to Have the earth all to themselves. The human nature excuse at the end of the day is just cope for humanity constantly being retarded.

>>23616213
IBO ends up having a lot of weird implications, which is why discussions on S2 end up in nonsensical spirals. Like okay don't reach beyond your means. But then what could the kids do? Mercs that try to stay out of trouble is a bit contradictory, they were going to rub up against the big boys. Okay so maybe its quit while you're ahead, and go do what? Mine space rocks? Everything is kind of shit so if anything it feels like you should be standing up against oppression. Instead ending with the military dictators just reformed on their own and gave everyone freedom. Feels like a this is what centrists actually believe joke.

In the end the message feels like just make better choices, idiot. If Orga had surrendered the show would've flipped a coin and gone no that was a bad choice you must be punished more. It's weird how IBO has a reputation for realism when the writing is so contrived.

>>23620933
>Better or worse?
Much better. Hell, they could even have had Iok die and the passive elements of Gjallarhorn would be the only ones left besides McGillis's faction and they'd roll over. You could honestly have Galio still kill him, just doing it face to face. Perhaps even in front of his sister.

>>23621118
Because Okada didn't understand the show Nagai was setting up. S2 should have been about how everyone was now embolden, because of Tekkadan, to rise up and challenge the authority of Gjallarhorn and how that should have spiraled into a conflict as bad as the calamity war as everything once banned began to be reintroduced as fair use. It didnt go down like that because Okada convince everyone to deviate into making it a much smaller story about kids making it in the mafia world instead, and any attempt get back on track was half implemented or just out denied by everyone siding against Nagai

>>23621195
Honestly always hated the whole mafia angle. It was mentioned so many times in interviews, but IBO feels nothing like a mafia/yakuza flick. There's more to it than characters make deals with shady people. Many of these ideas very context dependent. Kid gives up on school to run with the punks works in a grimy city. When you contextualise it in a world of interplanetary military rule and slave kids. There really isn't a getting out while you're ahead, choose a quiet life instead. When you live on child abuse planet. Not even touching on there's visual language IBO doesn't even really consider. It is not shot like a crime thriller.

>>23621221
It wasnt suppose to be a mafia yakuza story in the first place that's why feels nothing like one, it got hijacked and then turned into one and then when they finally remember they are making a gundam show, that's when they awkwardly get back to the being a war story.

>>23620948
>when we could be working together to expand around the earth and then branch out even further into space
Because then someone has to live in space and no one wants to be that guy. The entire reason the federation forced people into space in the first place was because of overpopulation and overconsumption of resources. Char's right about one thing and it's that humanity was toxic for the Earth. You can't have too many people living on it and if you want uncontrolled population growth you have to push people into space, which drives them fucking insane.

>>23621251
>Char's right about one thing and it's that humanity was toxic for the Earth.
Yep. We've failed to appreciate what we have, and our inability to work together means we aren't going to be better off elsewhere. This is also true of the sides. A lot of them are dumps and pretty much any authority we meet is a massive asshole. We aren't going to naturally become better in space. Someone will just declare there is a space ubermensch coming to fix everything. Just one more insane teenager bro, it's not the working together thing we just need to make the juiced kids fight.

>>23621251
>Because then someone has to live in space and no one wants to be that guy.
But you forget. Over time everyone got relatively use to living in space people were living in colonies just fine, the only issue was the federation kept imposing taxes on the colonies after driving those people into colonies in first which made people support Zeon and the idea of living in depended in space. The Zabis seized zeon and invade earth on the pretense of ridding themselves of the federation so they could live independantly then that derailed into conquering it because they bought into the newtype propaganda. But the main point I bring this up is that Zeon was only like one of many colony sides, majority of the other ones just wanted to live peacefully they really didnt give a shit. It was always the fringe minority rising up, and the federation would keep antagonizing that small fringe to keep themselves justified as being needed. Again the sentiment of colony life wasnt that every one was jealous they couldnt live on earth. It was "can the federation leave us alone, they are imposing us too much." No one was going insane because they were living in space, people were just on insane power trips trying to take over and rule the Earth. The reason im pushing back so much on that idea of "people going mad because they were living in space" is because is because it puts people under the impression that in gundam, space life gives you some incurable disease that makes people rabid until they touch actual grass when that not true at all, making people miss the real point they missed the point of newtypes because Lalah keeps getting referenced inapproiately. It's all powertrips and political bullshit. It's not a scientific proven phemonemon.

>>23620651
You make some good points, but the tragedy in IBO felt forced.
>>23620693
>>23620840
>>23620858
A lot of Season 2's issues came from Kudelia being written out. Had she been more involved, I don't think Orga would have allied with McGilliis.

>>23621288

I concur. That's why we need an AU where mankind made colonies beyond the Solar System.

>>23620933
Worse

>>23620651
>After only having Hitler to give him one last bus ride to it.
I thought you were being metaphorical until I remembered he was in this. What a weird choice.

>>23621346
Whom?

>>23620858
>Try to come with a coherent reason why nobody should care
I don't have to. I'm not arguing why you shouldn't, I'm telling you that audiences didn't care. It's not a debate, I'm informing you of the facts after they occurred. IBO having a smaller impact than expected and then being blown out by WFM is just the facts.

I'm the messenger entering the court and saying "sire, our armies are defeated and gay!". You don't argue with that and say that's not going to convince you. It's not a debate.

>>23618754
>Rustal was objectively the morally good guy
Only at the tail end, after all the characters people wanted to win had died thanks to labeling them inhuman and thus a-okay to commit war crimes on.

>>23621513
List these warcrimes but leave out any Tekkadan does too. Tell me what’s left

>>23621538
..... The Dainsleif use by Tekkadan was retaliatory. The same fucking way nations have signed on to the geneva conventions and agreed to not use chemical weapons but retain the right to use them in a retaliatory manner.

>>23621627
Oh they signed some kind of convention now? Funny I remember the rebels firing own first….

>>23621627
Holy fuck cope

>>23621659
That was a falseflag by Rustal-sama, he took Iok's example. What a schizophrenic show.

>>23617630
>Nah, if they had gone with a harsher ending then it'd be more likely you'd get a manga or game about taking down Rustal.
I mean that or a Calamity war game would have been nice. Does Bandai hate money?

>>23621659
They used the Dainselif launcher with regular rounds which wasn't illegal. They didn't use a Dainsleif of their own until Rustal had one of his guys sneak into their ranks and fire one of Rustal's own at him so he could justify using it himself.

>>23620858
>They executed their own captives at the start of season 1

Yeah but they were child slavers, so that's fine. It should be a legal law to execute all slavers on sight. The only good slaver is a dead one.

>>23621792
i mean technically just having the dainsleif round was illegal, if rustal had beat them down without using them himself and found the round after it would have justified everything he did anyways

>>23621798
Human debris aren't people so it's ok.

>>23621851
That's what they said about Black people too back in those days

>>23621876
Looking at Iok maybe they were on to something...

>>23616262
Even when that enemy has made a show about disregarding the rules of engagement from the start?

>>23621899
Iok is Egyptian

>>23622177
Yes even then.

>>23621813
.... Gee, do you think that Gjallarhorn only spontaneously manufactured those rounds after Rustal pulled off a false flag attack?

>>23622244
Not how it works. Not in an idealized world nor the real world. If you believe them to still be a threat you are allowed to neutralize that threat. This has come up quite often in the last 25 years with suicide bombers feigning surrender to get in close.

>>23622282
i'm referring to the custom one they had made for the flauros based off it's internal frame data

>>23622306
Still moving goalposts. Gjallarhorn had the rounds first.

>>23622314
What a childish viewpoint

>>23622282
Gjallarhorn like nuclear powers in real life has a legacy owner's privilege on the matter especially with the potential of mobile armors appearing, with said ownership being a publicly known matter, Tekkadan using AV empowered Gundams was already enough of a reason for Gjallarhorn to breakout the Dainsleif as those are also war crimes of debatably greater magnitude than the Dainsleifs are.

No

>>23622292
Or like the US regularly engaging in bad faith negotiations to stall time to enable military operations.

>>23622325
You need power to fight against tyrants

>>23618760
That doesn't justify the wanton slaughter Mika perpetrated.

>>23623662
It was Carta's fault. She asked for a duel instead of blowing up the tracks like anyone with a brain would have done and she never surrendered.

>>23623662
Crank played by honor and promised Gjallarhorn would back off if Mika dueled him honorable and then Gjallarhorn still kept hounding and trying to kill them. Carta broke off her "honorable" fight with him the previous episode to go bully a weaker mobile worker that got Biscuit killed. Why the fuck should Mika even give her honor BS the time of day at that point.

>>23616579
>What is the moral of this story?
Knowing when to stop when carving out a better life for you and your kind. Orga didn't so he and all of Tekkadan paid the price.

Carta should have been Vidar instead of Gaelio.

>>23623763
Again the problem is Orga never realistically had a chance to stop. The plot always kept fucking that up for them

>>23623835
>Orga never realistically had a chance to stop
Sure he did. Everything that happens to them in season 2 is because of Orga's ambitions interfering with his judgment. He could have chosen to turn down McGillis' "Kings of Mars" bullshit at any time, but didn't. He could have chosen to have Tekkadan lay low until they earned more trust in Teiwaz, but didn't.

>>23624090
And how the fuck do you think you gain trust in the yakuza?
Spoiler: It's by doing illegal jobs for them, which is the opposite of lying low.

>>23624090
Rustal would've gotten them all slaughtered sooner or later.

>>23624090
>He could have chosen to have Tekkadan lay low until they earned more trust in Teiwaz, but didn't.
I mean, in that case, their allies were getting killed. He could "lay low" and let them die without attempting revenge, but obviously they'd eventually be the next targets anyway.

And this ties directly into the alliance with McGillis, since they had lost their support by that point.

The only thing they could really do was what they attempted to do in the end (disband Tekkadan and hide out), but it's really just convenience of the script whether moved soon enough or not, and whether that'd work out or they'd still be able to find their trails and kill them.

>>23630707
Who’s Dan?

>>23630707
Fumitan mogs.

>>23623763
He just didn't go full measure even if he promised he go full measure. Either commit fully to your "crush everyone" creed or don't.

>>23617707
Basically. Orga and Tekkadan had plenty of chances to quit while they were ahead, but they kept digging that hole because they were a bunch of retarded child soldiers. You can see it clearly in S2 when Orga desperately looks for someone to advice him only to run into dumbass yes men.
Biscuit was the only smart sensible lad. When he died, so did Tekkadan's IQ.

>>23631197
If anything he should have went full on ruthless and told Mika to use dainsleifs. But instead he half assed his ruthlessness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AkiRsopp6M
Rage of Dust New Version.

>>23631197
Where were there offramps that wouldn't have had a pissed off gjallarhorn faction coming after them with far more resources than they had?

>>23631359
Don't join McGillis's side in the fleet battle.

Don't quit Teiwaz just to kill Jasley. Hell, maybe even just crippling them might have been enough to stay in Teiwaz. Even Mikazuki asks Orga if they should take their revenge against Jasley all the way and Orga says yes like a retard. McMurdo made a deal with Rustal to put Iok under house arrest and pull Gjallarhorn's support for Jasley, and they would both turn a blind to each others' dealings, like Iok's use of Dainsleifs against Naze. Jasley was probably going to die one way or another because McMurdo knew everything. If Tekkadan didn't do anything, he probably would've died like Lafter, shot in the streets by some random guys in suits. Teiwaz just didn't want a spectacle that could drag the entire organization down. The thing Tekkadan never understood was image. They just went all in on everything and smashed everything up for the world to see.

>>23631437
>Yes they will completely ignore the guys who enabled McGillis' plans to work for years if McGillis were to lose this conflict. Rustal would surely forgive them and ignore them after the power of Gundams with their limiters removed have been shown and they possess three fucking Gundams on hand in operational state.
>That does literally nothing to prevent Jasley's guys from coming after them and you even mention Lafter's death like it couldn't have happened to others. The fuck is wrong with you?

>>23616579
>SUBVERTED

>>23631437

They had no other choice than to act against Jasley at that point. He was just going to continue attacking Naze's girls until he got a response, and possibly would have dragged Teiwaz's entire organization into the dispute. McMurdo likely understood that removing Jasley personally would have caused astronomical issues for the organization compared to letting Tekkadan and the JPT rip one another apart.

As for the whole McGillis Revoluntary Force alliance? All of their previous arrangements with McGillis had worked out swimmingly, so they did not have many reasons to suspect that his master plan was legitimately insane. Hell, the laws of Gjallahorn did put some reason into trying the Bael play, but the council's decision to claim neutrality rather than outright violating the ancient laws were a technicality that McGillis had not accounted for. No matter what Tekkadan had done, they were marked for death by Rustal and his allies by the point Season 1 had ended. One way or another he was going to finagle a way to eradicate them.

>>23622177
Yes. You put them on trial and make a show of your adherence to rule of law and fact-finding before taking drastic, terminal action. Muddling the record with rash action leave a legitimacy vacuum.

>>23622325
Child soldiers.
Slaughtering child soldiers.

>>23616579
The answer is this >>23631709 plus jerking off about pragmatic, technocratic centrism. One glorious Deng Xiaoping to quash the evils of idealism etc. Etc. Alternatively, what would happen if Oberstein wrote an anime.

>>23631647
>>23631720
Rustal didn't give a shit about Tekkadan. He says himself they're just a scapegoat because McGillis's revolt ruined their image and they were part of the revolt so crushing them is the perfect opportunity to show Gjallarhorn isn't fucking around. Also, Rustal is on good enough terms with Teiwaz and McMurdo to directly make a deal over what is essentially blackmail and not strike back at Teiwaz afterwards. Teiwaz was more than strong enough to protect Tekkadan from any fallout up to that point because they were just military contractors working for a Gjallarhorn Seven Stars member and not a guy trying to overthrow the entire group. Orga even says that until they joined the fleet battle Tekkadan didn't have any enemies. It's so obvious that even a retard like Orga realized his mistake. And even if Rustal did go after Tekkadan for some reason, Teiwaz has routes avoiding the Ariadne system going all the way to Jupiter and Gjallarhorn barely even reaches Mars under normal circumstances. Teiwaz, a Jupiter company, could have easily hid them.

>>23631720
>He was just going to continue attacking Naze's girls until he got a response
What Jasley wanted was control over Teiwaz and his two options was to get McMurdo to give him control of the Turbines, gaining power piecemeal, or get Tekkadan to start a fight and drag McMurdo into it to have a justification to overthrow or kill him. Problem was Jasley thought McMurdo had no idea what he was doing but McMurdo knew the entire time what was going on. Tekkadan getting involved was Jasley's entire plan to drag Teiwaz into a big dispute because he knew they were hotheads. Them actually holding back would have ruined Jasley's entire plan. Do some of the Turbines girls suffer in the short term? Yes, is the long term better? Yes. Not to mention, Tekkadan's way of doing things, destroying all of JPT Trust, basically meant Teiwaz lost one of their biggest money makers. Everyone came out of that situation weaker because Tekkadan's option was to smash everything and spare no one. There's even a scene where Rustal actually makes a point of this exact thing during the fleet battle where he says he's avoiding attacking McGillis's regulatory fleet because after McGillis and the revolutionaries are defeated, the normal soldiers that used to be the Issue family fleet will fall in line like sheep because they're just following orders. Tekkadan's too stupid to understand concepts like that so they just kill everyone.

>>23631647
>>23631720
Oh yeah and I forgot. If you think McMurdo and Teiwaz wouldn't have shielded Tekkadan if they didn't break ties you're actually mentally retarded. Because even after the fleet battle and Tekkadan being called super criminals on interplanetary TV, McMurdo personally connects Orga to Rustal to help him out. And has Azee and the Turbines on standby at Teiwaz's mars branches to smuggle them to safety. And even after doing that Rustal and McMurdo broker a deal for Teiwaz to become the real power behind the independent Mars.

The problem with Orga isn't that he wasn't allowed to surrender its that his death was stupid and played for laughs. Why tf was he not wearing a bullet proof vest

>>23632619
Why were Ride and the other one wearing Tekkadan uniforms in broad daylight when Tekkadan was an illegal organization

>>23632091
Ahuh, and you completely forgot about the war on Earth that Rustal was prolonging to grind down the Tekkadan. They were always on his radar.

>>23632109
Once you are killing other members of your organization you are no longer a part of that organization if it's being run in any remotely sane manner. JPT Trust eliminated JPT Trust as a moneymaker. You put out hits on your own people and you need to be put down like the rabid dog you are.

>>23632756
No, Rustal targeted them because Arbrau hired Tekkadan as their private defense force and McGillis was headquartered nearby and in charge of that region, and had troops defending the SAU. So Rustal had Galan Mossa IED bomb Tekkadan and Makanai and made it look like it could be the SAU so that a war would break out between Abrau and the SAU under McGillis's watch, which would paint McGillis as an incompetent leader and lose support within Gjallarhorn, which would ruin his petition to have his fleet take over the policing of the outer spheres which Rustal was already policing and ruin McGillis's plan to buildup power on Mars, where Gjallarhorn doesn't have a lot of eyes. Not to mention, McGillis's forces defending the SAU would have to fight Tekkadan so everyone involved gets fucked, but especially McGillis's fleet who's locked in place fighting an endless guerilla war against Tekkadan, who's a lot better at MS battles. Tekkadan was only getting burned for being too close to McGillis and for being dumb enough to be the perfect puppet for Rustal. McGillis even says that someone, Galan, is commanding Tekkadan perfectly. Rustal's goal was to take down McGillis because not only was he directly challenging Rustal's power in space, which they literally said in the first episode of S2, Rustal suspected McGillis was going to upset the power on Mars and build up a bigger base there. Tekkadan is just collateral damage and useful idiots. Hell even in the end, they're only killed because Rustal thinks they're useful to show Gjallarhorn's power after McGillis undermined it. It doesn't matter to him who or what Tekkadan is other than being an opportunity. He even tells Orga that everyone in Tekkadan has to die, but he doesn't go out of his way to hunt down Tekkadan after the big show is over even though they literally work right under Kudelia who's a public figure.

>>23632758
99% of JPT Trust didn't kill Lafter or any Turbines. Anyway, you're just wrong, because the adults on both sides of Tekkadan agree on this. There are ways of handling rats without killing everyone next to them. Btw Rustal literally says he's avoiding attacking McGillis's main fleet during the battle as they're fighting and killing each other. Him saying that everyone in an organization should be punished is just him applying Tekkadan logic on them to rattle Orga because he never actually does it. He spares the survivors from McGillis's regulatory fleet. After Iok goes full retard and has Gjallarhorn designate Turbines as a criminal group, no one from Rustal's fleet pursues the matter after Naze and Amida get killed and McMurdo agrees to take all of the Turbines members into groups directly under his control. And after Tekkadan is destroyed, he doesn't go after the survivors which is like 90% of the organization, working directly under Kudelia. Tekkadan only uproots everything because Orga is mentally retarded and thinks being the boss is just doubling down on every bad decision and never ducking a fade until reality slaps him in the face. Even Mikazuki was questioning him about how far they'll take their revenge against JPT Trust. Wiping out everyone on the opposing side without mercy is like medieval monkey business. Actually even those guys were more civilized, it's like caveman shit.

>>23620933
Much better. Even Iok has a better end.

>>23616213
Retarded writing so they can find a way to kill them off. There is absolutely no gain in killing them.

>>23632756
Shit dude >>23633095 just destroyed you

>>23634241
>Nuh uh, they coulda backed out before agreeing to support McGillis in space. Ignore the fact that I concede that they're being specifically targeted before that so I can samefag and talk about destroying you.
You've lost the reply chain and what the original points were.

>>23634339
NTA but cope

>>23624090

They had 3 chances to back out and in all cases it was either unrealistic or someone fucked it up for them.

First is when Biscuit tells them to just give it all up, dump the Gundam's on Earth and hitchhike back to Mars. Everyone thinks Biscuit was the smart one for saying this but realistically this would have been suicide. Gjallarhorn was already gunning for payback so all this would have done was sent them home totally broke with their only means of defense gone for easy picking when Gaelio came calling.

Second was in season 2 with the metal mine. It was their perfect way out, the MS could mine, they could stop their dangerous merc work and Orga could tell Mcgillis he changed his mind which he was considering doing, then they dug up the MA, Mcgillis found out and went over there, and Iok showed up and activated it then fucked up their attempt to stop it early one which led to the mine being destroyed and Mika crippiling himself to stop it, meaning he could never not be anything but a pilot.

But oh well, they'll just go back to merc work and get better with Teiwaz, except Jasley who's pissed they got the mine is now gunning for them and says he'll keep doing hits on them until Orga fights him. So Orga has to leave Teiwaz to finally take out Jasley. Now he basically has no other option but Mcgillis. Without a backer, their funds will dry up fast and he's the only one left.

>>23634458
You know that Tekkadan or McMurdo could also do hits on Jasley right? They had McMurdo on their side, they just didn't have any tact in how they went about things and lacked the patience to wait for McMurdo to figure things out. Not sure why you're acting like they were some helpless little kids.

And if we're being honest, they had two chances to win against Rustal too. One was to do the same thing that they always do and rush in and kill everything, and smash Rustal's bridge at the start of the fleet before the dainsleifs were deployed. But Orga and McGillis were too busy LARPing as leaders from the back instead of just doing what they're good at. McGillis should have been out in the field from the start, because Bael and Barbatos are 99% of their entire fleet's strength, and he clearly demonstrates that he's able to take down entire fleets by himself when he charges in alone. In the span of a couple minutes he destroyed a ship's bridge and eviscerates the Arianrhod Fleet's first wave of defenders. He also shouldn't have been shielding the revolutionary fleet with his own, he should have been helping Tekkadan so they can send in Barbatos to run in and wreak havoc instead of staying back to defend the ships.

And the other was joining McGillis's one man suicide mission. Because if Orga had actually stayed true to his promise to stick with him to the end and sent the Barbatos with McGillis, Mikazuki and McGillis would have slaughtered Gaelio and killed Rustal. Mikazuki is a fleet killer, so Rustal sending the rest of his MS to support Gaelio wouldn't even matter. We see him slaughter entire companies of MS while barely taking a scratch time and time again. Not to mention he has the precision to hit joints on people like Ein with the AV, who's one of the other best pilots in the show. In a 2v1 Gaelio would have been totally fucked and dead in a minute.

What was the original ending? Everyone dies including kudelia aina berenstain?

>>23621484
Space hitler. The adult who betrayed tekkadan in the beginning

>>23634991
Yeah, all named Tekkadan characters and Kudelia were meant to die in the director's original ending.

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>>23634857
In general IBO is about a bunch of very stupid characters acting very stupid and throwing away any chance of escape or victory purely because we need an ending where best boy Rustel wins and enacts every single goal that the protagonists were fighting for anyways.

what a shitload of fuck, not my least favorite gundam cast but it's in the bottom five.

>>23617900
Good /m/an

>>23640105
U mad

>>23640105
Well they are literally retarded. They're orphans with no education who had their brains experimented on. Not sure what you expected

>>23640105
Was he Nagai's self-insert?

>>23640105
Only reason is because Iok died

At the very least, IBO would be alot better if Olga survived, narratively.

>>23616213
Yeah.

>>23620882
the fact that you guys are STILL butthurt about Rustal to this day...LMAO

>>23644589
He actually did nothing wrong is great.

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>>23616213
No. He and everyone in Tekkadan should have died. Rustal Elion turned out to be exceptionally merciful anyway;
>>23616474
Seethe more faggot; Your Mika was a fucking sociopathic murderer who took pleasure in killing people. Rustal at least had an ambitious goal and didn’t kill for pleasure;

>>23644630
But you should take pleasure in killing scumbags. You people are such fucking pussies. Day of the rope I'm Mikaing as many corrupt politicians and child traffickers as I can get my hands on. Authority is always wrong

>>23620709
It was an asspull considering distance and time to fire. The shit did not line up. Also the fact that she, in general, could keep up with AV units but that's excusable because completely one-sided stomps don't sell models.

My thoughts on Orga is that 90% of the decisions he made, he had no choice because the only other choice was death. Unfortunately for the other 10% he made some pretty bad ones

>>23640088
Was Arta still going to have Mika's kid or was she going to die as well?

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>>23644915

>>23645884
That and he literally a Schizo. That episode after Biscuit died was him having a schizo moment, hell his view of Mika are mostly him being a schizo

>>23616213
No.

>>23645978
You'll be regretting you didn't study the blade like me mark my fucking words

>>23632619
It's hilarious how one of IBO's longest lasting legacies was TOMARUNJANEEZO and an off-key KIBOU NO HANAAAA meme.

>>23656454
Tomarunjaneezo made it to NHK's top Gundam lines ranking this year too

>>23623777
The whole thing with Carta should've been worked as McGillis only feigning her death with a body double, and allowing her to observe from the outside in how rotten and corrupt Gjallerhorn had actually gotten. She should've been revealed to actually have been alive at the end, and should've been there bringing up her fleet to the side, blind-siding Rustal's and forcing him to answer to justice for carrying an outlandish - beyond any means justifiable - amount of Dainsleif ammo clearly to be used for more than retaliatory purposes. This would even have been the "she's not actually dead"-moment that would've been able to have the in-fighting between Gaelio and McGillis come to an early end.

But ofcourse, that didn't happen - because McGillis was intentionally written to be the well-meaning idiot idealist type who will run everyone into an early grave.

>>23632619
It wasn't played for laughs, the staff didn't realize (or it was too late to change it) just how being so over the top would go over with audiences. Hell a straight up Ashita no Joe riff would've been less stupid.

>>23656699
McGillis was just a poorly written larper. He didn't NEED to kill his best friends, he did so because it was part of his larp, he sacrifices the only two people who were his friends because to achieve his goals. You can't separate the larp aspect from his character because it ultimately motivates every method he chooses, conscioualy acting like a character in a story.
Because thats what a Char character does, they get their friends who had nothing to do with what they hate beyond blood ties, just like Garma.

>>23656699
>McGillis was intentionally written to be the well-meaning idiot idealist type
No he wasn't. Where do you retards get this from because it's not in the show AT ALL. McGillis's problem with Gjallarhorn is that the old and weak are at the top, instead of the deserving. Who are the deserving? The strong. That's his entirely world view. That's why he HAD to kill his friends instead of working with them, because they're attachments that make him weak and like the old Gjallarhorn who cluster together out of fear. He's afraid they'll hold him back from being Agnika Kaieru, who famously needed nothing other than his swords. Did you read Berserk and think that Griffith is some well-meaning idiot too? They're the exact same character.

>>23657009
He was literally trying to reenact a fairy tale.

>>23655407
I won't regret it.