This show is something else, man.I don't think the word "misogynist" is quite right, and I'm the furthest thing from a feminist a person could possibly be.It's just that ALL of the female characters in this show are absurd images of the idea of "women". They're either utterly batshit insane and genocidal like Katejina and Fuala, childishly retarded like Shakhti, or intensely oversexualised (Shrike Team and everyone else). I know it's Tomino but this is just like a little boy's wet dream of what he thinks adult women are actually like. In this scene alone Uso blushes because a woman is nice to him, then she forces him to rest his head on her tits while she flies them somewhere, then she reminisces about how her family died when she was seven before smooching him on the cheek. It's so puerile. This is honestly some of the most bizarre, puzzling characterisation I've ever seen.Any thoughts? The mech design is sick, at least.
>>23625654>Uso blushes because a woman is nice to him, then she forces him to rest his head on her tits while she flies them somewhere, then she reminisces about how her family died when she was seven before smooching him on the cheek.This is an accurate depiction of the schizophrenic nature of women thoughbeit
>>23625654>childishly retarded like Shakhti, or intensely oversexualisedShakti is both
>>23625654>In this scene alone Uso blushes because a woman is nice to him, then she forces him to rest his head on her tits while she flies them somewhere, then she reminisces about how her family died when she was seven before smooching him on the cheek. It's so puerile. This is honestly some of the most bizarre, puzzling characterisation I've ever seen.you are looking at it from american/nuclear family pov.In Asia, the whole community comes together to raise the child. There's abundance of older female figure in child's life. Mother, Aunt from both sides, sister, sister's friend, neighbour next door, older cousin and many such convoluted family tree members. It's pretty normal for older women to dote on children. Looking at Shrike team's interactions (from their side) with Uso under a sexual lens is a huge misread, you can take it as a sneak subtext but it's not overtly meant to be that.
>>23625654People always point at Tomino's women but his men are often just as insane. It's just that often there are less women in the story so it seems like the ratios are fucked one over the other but really the point is that everyone is just fucktarded.
I'll say it again: Tomino actually writes women very well.Most other writers just write women as exactly men: manly goals, manly relationships, manly motivations, and basically everything manly. This is probably what OP (and a majority of other retarded people) are used to and expect from stories now. If women are too emotional, are sexual (ever), are depicted as evil, have a feminine goal, or don't act like men I literally spill my giant cup of onions in rage and call the media problematic and insane! You can't win with these people.
>>23625707Yeah, even if they're not written as dudes with tits the most you ever get is maybe them occasionally acting dainty or blushing. The way to depict women in things has always been kind of weird. Your men can go insane, turn evil, act petty, cruel or whatever. They can get hurt, tortured and die in horrific ways. They can do anything the writer wants and nobody bats an eye. A woman so much does anything in either direction and suddenly you're one of multiple extremes.
>>23625654yeah, it turns out 13 year old child soldiers in pointless wars makes adults act weirdly. the show's already made a point of that several times at that point, of people who have no business in battle being forced into it anyways. women who should have been mothers in peace time, men who should be fathers to their kids, children who should be playing outside with their friends, not all piloting giant killer robots in wars waged by mad men. simple stuff
>>23625694>you are looking at it from american/nuclear family pov.Funny because I'm a Brit who lives in Japan.But okay.How about the scene where Uso and Odelo are fighting and the women all decide to just stand around and watch, and there's a deep implication that there's a kind of sexual interest from one or both sides? Why do the adult women care which young underage boy wins a shitty fistfight? Why would these actual trained solders give a shit about what prepubescent kids are doing?>>23625700That's kind of true, but the last person I can think of that was like this was Yazan checking if his dudes have hard-ons for blood, or Paptimus grooming hordes of women.>>23625707I mean I tried to express it in the OP - believe me, I know how crazy women can be. It just seems weird that literally all of them are fucked in the head in an overtly sexual manner.>>23625721I mean...is that it? "muh war" is enough to justify characters just all being total fucking weirdoes even early on before many deaths have occurred? So far only ONE member of the Shrike Team has died so I don't see how they're particularly traumatised.
>>23625654Americans shouldn't watch anime, it makes them say stupid shit like this.
>>23625825Maybe read the thread next time retard
>make shit thread>expect people to read itNot how it works.
>>23625654faggot
>>23625654>In this scene alone Uso blushes because a woman is nice to him, then she forces him to rest his head on her tits while she flies them somewhere, then she reminisces about how her family died when she was seven before smooching him on the cheek. It's so puerile.what the fuck is so strange about an older girl trying to be nice and comfort a young boy with a lot on his shoulders? it speaks to her kindness and how marbet and the shirke are trying their hardest to make up for having a kid like Uso fight in their war. they step up to be his older sister figures because children need the warmth of family, its one of the things victory gundam is all about.
Tomino has a thing for onee-shota.
>>23626122Breasts are icky and the experts define them as a sexual organ therefore she is a molester and should be a better woman.
>>23625751What about char himself, planning on genocide due to his massive mommy issues and unresolved feelings for a teen romance who he projected his mommy issues on? Or kamille jumping a military death squad soldier in front of other soldiers for implying his name wasn’t a mans name, along with all his other issues? Or Gato and Delaz plans to provoke another genocidal war in honor of super hitler? Or all the zeek remnants who continue to plan insane terrorist attacks? The list goes on forever for insane gundam dudes. If you mean dudes with weird psycho-sexual traits look at Jonathan Glenn from brain powerd
>>23625654it's a feminist show, Tomino is a feminist. He hates people like you, like any good person should.
>>23625654>childishly retarded like ShakhtiShe's literally a child you fucking moron
>>23625654it's all girls girls girls but then you relaize Tomino just sets this up just to killed them all in the brutalist of ways,i mean ffs the MC's mom is killed by a giant battleship motercycle tire and all he's left with is her head in a helmet. It's meant to rob the MC of his innocene through out the show at by the end he's fucked up.
>>23625654I'm going to be honest with you. I don't see you as some raging feminist, but the narrative that Victory is somehow 'anti' women or deliberately sexist is one of the most exhausting things to me about this fandom debate over it.In cultural Japan in 1993, when teen girls could basically be legal hookers, it was trying to deal with the topic of women's various roles in society and the ways it (and war) could impact them, and it tackled those issues without drawing a direct conclusion. It certainly made some controversial choices, but they (mostly) fit within the context of the show's settings. It's not meant to moralize and throw it in your face so much as it is to point out the crazy and hypocritical ways war can impact women, and the men around them as well. And the Zanscare men are vilified above the women in every case except Katejina.Maria specifically is meant to be a tragic figure who has good intentions, but allows a powerful man to use her intentions to do horrific things. She pushes back, rebels, and gets killed for it when she realizes her own roles in it. Her background literally had her be a street prostitute of sorts who rose to power because someone propped her up. It was meant to be a tragic story of how powerful men exploit idols for propaganda purposes, something that has absolutely happened throughout history. At no point does it ever just blindly go and say "A matriarchy is good" or "A matriarchy is evil", merely that an ideology of any kind can be co-opted for evil purposes.I think the show, strange as it can be, does a good job of depicting just how mad war can be too. I think Tomino's depression actually makes the show more visceral and interesting. And I think the idea that he hated women is a big, big misread, caused by our own modern culture's need to promote the gender wars above basic understanding. It's so tiring to me.
>>23625751>How about the scene where Uso and Odelo are fighting and the women all decide to just stand around and watch, and there's a deep implication that there's a kind of sexual interest from one or both sides? Why do the adult women care which young underage boy wins a shitty fistfight? Why would these actual trained solders give a shit about what prepubescent kids are doing?
>>23626122>>23626172It's weird for a mature woman to force a child to touch her tits.>>23626195What about them? Yeah I totally agree all those characters are written in questionable ways too but I'm talking about Victory, dumbfuck. None of those characters are in Victory, so it's not relevant.>>23626244What>>23626303It's pretty awesome, but it's just weird that Mahalia's only character development is what I described in the OP, then she immediately dies.
>>23626479Thanks for the essay? I don't care what you "think of me", why the hell would I? I'm Anonymous. In another thread you'll agree with me on a different topic and you won't even know it. You people are weird.>In cultural Japan in 1993, when teen girls could basically be legal hookersAs stated I live in Japan and it's the same now.> It's not meant to moralize and throw it in your face so much as it is to point out the crazy and hypocritical ways war can impact women, and the men around them as well.Okay, thanks for explaining.But the weird part is they're all fucked in the head and the war has barely begun. Half the Shrike team are killed before episode 20. At that point in the series, it's just a bunch of skirmishes with no outright war.>I think the show, strange as it can be, does a good job of depicting just how mad war can be too.I mean, I can appreciate that, especially with the weird motorcycle MS and stuff. But the thing is that in between the cool but absurd mecha and the women acting like perpetually horny sows, everyone ELSE seems to act reasonably rationally.>And I think the idea that he hated women is a big, big misread, caused by our own modern culture's need to promote the gender wars above basic understanding. It's so tiring to me.I don't know if you're accusing me of saying that, but I'm not. I don't know about other people's views of Victory, that's why I'm here to talk about it.>>23626792You have nothing to say, only post images?
>>23627115>It's weird for a mature woman to force a child to touch her tits.thats only because you think contact with a womans breasts must always be sexualits clear that she is trying to be physically intimate with Uso in the same way close family members would be, and its because she is a woman and he is a child that its not sexual or weird unless that is your fetish. Uso only acts flustered because obviously theyre still not that close. its a very makeshift found family after all and thus she has to force it a little, but Uso and the shrike team grow to care for each other like family nontheless. its a shame your conception of intimacy is so stunted that you can only interpet this interaction with connotations of sex and abuse.
>>23627115>It's weird for a mature woman to force a child to touch her tits.It's fucking based actually
>hurr durr I live in japan so I should know about japanese people and culture >"why is this japanese show so wierd and culturally alien to me? This is so preverse! amirite gais?"What a waste of a thread
It surprises me people think tomino is a good writer. He's fucking awful and the novels are full of this shit. He had great ideas and dynamics but that's it
>>23625751Tomino has stated in interviews that the intent with Haman was that she was mad that Char rejected her. She tried to get Judau afterwards, and when he rejected her too she went off the deep end. With Tomino it's safe to assume that everyone is batshit in some way. If they seem sane to you, either there's an interview saying their motivations are juvenile or they just didn't get enough focus to reveal they had some insane quirk.And that's not even getting into how Tomino has confirmed that since the very beginning with 0079 he did stuff just to see if the executives were actually checking what he was writing. Goofy ass names like Gelgoog or Quattro Vagina eventually escalating to Char saying he was doing everything because he wanted a mommy figure or Victory stuff in general seems reasonable enough to me. And this stuff did in fact make it to air, so.
>>23627116Christ anon if you were going to be such a little crybaby when people told you what they think, why solicit opinions in the first place?
>>23625654Victory is Tomino exploring ideas of femininity and motherhood taken to various extremes. The absurdity is apart of the point he's trying to make.Aside from Marbet and Shakti every female character is distorted in some way.
>>23625654Clever bait or have never dealt with women
>>23626792>>23627116>there's a deep implication that there's a kind of sexual interest from one or both sides?There's not. These women do not want to fuck uso, get your mind off gutter.>Why do the adult women care which young underage boy wins a shitty fistfight?cause it's fun. never cheered for two people to duke it out instead of breaking them off? It's almost silently agreed among men to never break off two women fighting cause their bitching and scratching is very entertaining and funny.Shrike team has millitary background, so this kind of sight is not rare for them, they are just letting off some steam. Unlike Shakti who is just a normal girl and asks then to stop fighting.Hell, Tomino inverts the usual homoeroticism of male plattoons in media by switching them with women. They are betting their ear rings and lipstick (with a kiss) on which of the two kids will win.This actually acts as a neat little foreshadowing for their role in the story. Typically, war media has a male grunt soldier be the disposable one, doing some bullshit noble 'please escape, I will hold the door' sacrifice, being killed mercilessly and even getting a hard hitting funeral.
>>23627858that sounds exactly all you need for a good sci-fi romp in literature: "great ideas and dynamics". No one is reading Arthur C. Clarke for his fucking prose, that's for sure
OP is a giant faggot but I think everyone else in the thread has done a great job of elaborating on the themes of Victory and confirming to me why it's easily the best Gundam series. Proud of you, anons.
>>23625654>but this is just like a little boy's wet dream of what he thinks adult women are actually likeand God bless Tomino for that shit lol
>>23628267As said giant faggot I don't really understand what was supposed to have been said.The writing is noticeably weird around all the women; yes women are retarded but "muh war" and "muh asian family thing which doesn't actually exist" aren't reasonable justifications to it. And I don't care about what other characters in other Gundam shows do.You all just want to dogpile and "own" someone and then cry when the board dies because no one's discussing it. lmao. I didn't say I wasn't ENJOYING Victory, just think it's funny that the women are so OTT.And I'm not American, I think you all are.How about this? Imagine you started dating a woman and you found out she let your neighbourhood kid rest on and fondle her tits every now and then. Would it be okay then? Because "that's what women should do for young boys" or some nonsense?
>>23628563>Imagine you started dating a woman and you found out she let your neighbourhood kid rest on and fondle her tits every now and then. Would it be okay then? Because "that's what women should do for young boys" or some nonsense?this isnt analagous at all. The league militaire members are at war and uso is a kid separated from his parents going out into battle risking his life and killing people at his tender age. youd have to be a sociopath to think that he doesnt need some kind of emotional support to keep him from breaking down and marbet and the shrike team do this by acting like older sisters to Uso and letting him know there are people that care for him that he can rely on. whats extreme is the circumstances but marbet and the shrike team are some of the kinder and more sensible people that appear in victory gundam (although the shrikes are a little eccentric in a harmless way), especially when compared to the zanscare pilots who are actually strange.
>>23628563I don't care if the board "dies" by having less of faggots like you on it.>I'm not American I know, you're even worse: an Anglo. And that still explains why you are such a tremendous moron with puritan sensibilities.>I think you all areWrong, dickhead.>Imagine you started dating a woman and you found out she let your neighbourhood kid rest on and fondle her tits every now and then. Would it be okay then?Good thing that isn't what was happening in the show. Not every interaction a man has with a woman is sexual. I have female friends who I'll get a hug from when I see them after a long time, they aren't trying to seduce me by pushing their tits against me. Boobs are just sacks of fat on the chest at the end of the day. You are the one choosing to think that any contact with boobs is inherently sexual because you are a retarded puritanical autist and a stupid faggot who thinks everyone needs to share your insane worldview, especially people who were brought up in a very different culture to yours. Do us a favour and fuck off.
>>23627924>Extremes Literally just look outside
>>23625654So when you said "any thoughts" you were just looking for thoughts that validated your opinion?
>>23628663>>23629382>>23629531lolI accept your concessions
>>23625694>In this scene alone Uso blushes because a woman is nice to him, then she forces him to rest his head on her tits while she flies them somewhere, then she reminisces about how her family died when she was seven before smooching him on the cheek. It's so puerile. This is honestly some of the most bizarre, puzzling characterisation I've ever seen.Everyone, please go watch this scene in episode 13. It's completely innocuous and unremarkable scene with some red flags. This guy is retarded.
>>23628127>Typically, war media has a male grunt soldier be the disposable one, doing some bullshit noble 'please escape, I will hold the door' sacrifice, being killed mercilessly and even getting a hard hitting funeral.That's why I think Victory is the thematic zenith of Gundam, and why it's the best Gundam show. The world has become so bleak that women, children, and old men are now the main fighting force - all the young idiotic men who typically fight are dead. The war machine has churned up all the fresh meat and now it can only run on off-cuts that shouldn't be there. There's no hope left for humanity now that those who should be mothers, those who should be protected according to old standards of chivalry, are being sent to the frontlines to die. Even worse, all the newtypes are basically dead and forgotten, the concept has been all but lost to time in the span of sixty years. I can understand why Tomino hated Victory at first, it is beyond bleak and there's basically nothing further you can do with UC after it because it's basically the apocalypse in slow-motion. Even Zeta's depressing ending still had a level of hope to it, especially as they had ZZ and CCA planned afterwards, and ultimately CCA ends on a bittersweet note; the Feds and Zeeks put aside their differences and tried to push back Axis. It seemed that humanity would finally be able to unite and understand each other, proving Char wrong. But then Bandai came calling and needed more toys, cheapening the ending of CCA and forcing the franchise to continue on. And so the war machine had to continue. Victory is the culmination of that.
>>23629672I meant death flags. Goddamn. >>23627924No, I'd include Marbet in that, or at least part of her actively contemplated whether she was a "bad woman."
>>23629666what concession your analogy was wrong by every measure and your conception of intimacy and affection is fucked because its all sexual for you. i get that were dealing with tomino but that guy still knows when to draw the line, do you think the puru plotline in ZZ was sexual too? do you think msg is doing fanservice when when the show shows off kikkas naked body or that fraw is a pedo for getting into bath with little kids?? get real, is your family life so fucked you have no frame of reference?
>>23625654filtered
>>23631079Just ignore OP, anyone who says "I accept your concession" has lost the argument and thinks they'll win by ragebaiting their opposition. Just make fun of him for being British and being a sex tourist.
