Ahem. Fuck the feds
>>23662393>accomplishes nothing>his own father executes him>still a virgin in the afterlifewat a fucking loser
>>23662393I mean if you insist...
>>23662393based and agreedterrorism is better
>>23662424Who's the pink slut on the top left?
>>23662393Says the man who killed an innocent woman trying to save him from an insane hormonoal teenager.
>>23662455Maureen Kitamura from Blue Destiny.
>>23662455the operator for the EF guinea pig team from the blue destiny story
>>23662424Chris is so beautiful, it's too bad she only has eyes for ground beef.
>>23662393The only mistakes Hathaway ever made were:1: not killing Chan faster2: being too nice and merciful as Mafty
>>23662407Doesn't he bang gigi at some point? Everything else is true though. And frankly even if he isn't a virgin in body he is one in spirit.
>>23662507Should he have also joined Zeon?
>>23662562
>>23662575There was no Zeon to join, and besides why would he? Zeon has decades of fascist history behind it. Mafty's whole goal is literally just forcing the Federation government to do its fucking job that the entire basis for their mandate and authority.
>>23662458Chan killed Astonaige, she deserved it.
>>23662562he 'no way fag's her in the 3rd vol.
>>23662651I meant during CCA.
>>23662575>Should he have joined a red pedophile's contolist death cult?Gee, I don't know anon no you fucking stupid niggerwhere he messed up was not being mature enough to keep Quess' affection, which led to her latching onto Amuro and then to Char
Someone remind me, why did the Geara Doga squadrons turn face and help with Axis Shock again?Was it really just a moment of clarity in realizing that they were being assholes and that their pedo leader was completely batshit insane so they have to do last minute reparations?Or was it another Cima scenario where they didn't know the full details of the plan? Like as far as they knew, they were only doing fights for independence the good ol fashioned and geneva convention abiding way. Only to realize in horror that they were set up to commit turbo war crimes?
>>23662744Imagine being propagandized for most of your life that everything bad that has ever happened to you was the fault of (X) country even though it was actually the fault of your own retarded faggot government. And now imagine being on the front lines of an exterminatus, watching a mass weapon be deployed and realizing that basically no one who is going to die from it is actually responsible for any of your problems, and also that the environment of that country will be totally irrecoverable and you're helping cause the extinction of every life form that lives there.And now broaden this thought experiment to where your country is a space colony, and country (X) is the entirety of Earth and all life that exists on it. Most of the pilots of those Geara Dohga were in the 20-30 age range and would have been children/very young teenagers during the One Year War.I think it's reasonable that many of them would have an "oh shit" moment as they realize they are quite literally about to destroy the entire planet in the worst mass murder of life in general much less human lives, in all of history. Which is very significant given how utterly RARE planets even "kind of, maybe, sort of similar to Earth, we think" are in the rest of the observable galaxy.
>>23662722There are certain people who believe Zeon was always in the right. Especially when it came to the Laplace Box which many saw as trying to justify Zeon's actions.
>>23662806Basically every zeon stan is some combination of delusional and genuinely midwitted as they bend over backwards to excuse why actually everything bad Zeon ever did or happened because of Zeon was really the capitalist pig - I mean, Federation scums fault.
>>23662844I feel like even some Gundam writers have this mentality. Like when the Unicorn novel had Feddies raping Zeon women or Kiki getting raped by Feddies in the MS Team novel.
>>23662844>>23662857Lol but you gotta admit the amount of Zeon apologia in the real world does lend believability to the idea people keep trying to bring it back in universe.
>>23662857Unicorn was one of many cases of Fukui wanting to write about Imperial Japan and WW2 like he did with several of his other works, like Lorelai. In fact Lorelai is basically just Gundam Unicorn without the giant robots and the Gundam branding otherwise filed off (it came before tho)He's a revisionist who turns everything he touches into allegorical fanfiction if he doesn't just actually go write an althist setting.
>>23662860>it wasn't REAL zeonism this time it'll work
>>23662575He should've brought back the titans
>>23662806and yet opening Laplace's box achieved absolutely nothing.
>>23662744>>23662787It's the moment of clarity. Genocide is harder when you view the people you're genociding as people.I also dislike the degree to which people bend over backwards to make Zeon soldiers somehow unaware of the warcrimes even as they're committing them. We never see the soldier that did something terrible and has to live with the knowledge that they chose to, or the NCO that risks his life to stop something because he doesn't see how gunning down this particular group of Earthnoid refugees is helping to liberate the colonies. 0080 gets close but even there the 'solution' is to do the mission even harder.'Zeon didn't do anything and if they did anyway it was only the Zabis who knew and really the soldiers are victims just as bad' just removes a lot of potential interesting stories.
>>23662575>Should he have also joined Zeon?Hathaway is le enlighten centralist who says fuck the Feds and Zeon scum
>>23663129>Imperial Japan didn't do anything and if they did it anyway it was only the generals/the/emperor/etc. who knew and really the soldiers are victims just as badI agree though>>23663145Hathaway is an ancap that wants to break the federation back into actual countries instead of some super bloc uniparty. He represents the spirit of every person you may or may not have seen who has said things like>The united nations is gay>The US should leave nato already>Brexit>et. al.and sees militant Zeon as megalomaniacal scum who need to face the wall.
>>23663145HE'S JUST LIKE ME
>>23663173He's just like me too (because I'm terrible with women)
>>23663158I think I've said this in other threads on similar topics before but it's fascinating how real life apologia for the Wehrmacht and IJA/IJN have slid into Gundam over the years, and not even as in-universe apologia but actual slants to the writing.
>>23662393>Be Fed's controlled op "terrorist" group
>>23663173>>23663185he's just like me...fr fr.........because I too lose to autistic blue cunny>>23663188it makes sense when you consider the state of japan and who writes it. the disaffected younger generations, especially in the face of shit going on with china, korea and taiwan feel like japan has the short end of the stick. they go to school and none of their teachers really want to educate them about their history and avoid the subject, so the sources they start learning about these topics from are naturally the only ones over there willing to speak openly about it - historical revisionists. of course the us actually has the reverse problem where historical revisionists do nothing but demonize and flanderize us history. the result however is basically the same: youth who either grow up hating their country or ideating a version of it that never existed. this was a problem as far back as SEED btw, which is something /m/ isn't ready to admit yet.
>>23663122It became a talking point for assemblymen pushing for basically giving up control over colonies. You can see it as something eventually leading up to Victory.
>>23662393>"Im the hero" he shouted as he fired endless missiles from his monstrous genocide machine
>>23663228Well yeah, he's not going to shout it without the genocide machine, it'd lose all impact and just seem kinda silly.
>>23663228that's gawman.
>>23663206>it makes sense when you consider the state of japan and who writes it. the disaffected younger generations, especially in the face of shit going on with china, korea and taiwan feel like japan has the short end of the stick. they go to school and none of their teachers really want to educate them about their history and avoid the subject, so the sources they start learning about these topics from are naturally the only ones over there willing to speak openly about it - historical revisionists. of course the us actually has the reverse problem where historical revisionists do nothing but demonize and flanderize us history. the result however is basically the same: youth who either grow up hating their country or ideating a version of it that never existed.Hate to go off-topic, but do you have a source on those stories about how 1990s-2000s Japanese learned about Imperial Japan's history in that manner?
>>23663291>>23663129>>23663158>>23663188Back on topic. Ideally, I see the "lying to the troops and let them find out once the dark deed was done" workable because it's the far flung future so the average Zeon grunt wouldn't know squat about 20th century Earth history (refer to how Gihren Zabi saw the 1930s and 1940s as the "Middle Ages" when asked by his father if he's familiar with Adolf Hitler) on the crimes against humanity committed then and what they were doing when the One Year War started. Not only that, Gihren could have made sure no one spread the word that GG gas was to be used against the colonies.
>>23663291https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/school-textbooks-and-east-asias-history-wars-a-comparative-approach-to-teaching-about-perspective-bias-and-historical-memory/Japanese text books until recently didn't ommit information completely, but they did make things sound as "loose" as possible, like they just "happened" with no motivation and as little detail as possible.Newer books are outright erasing stuff though.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-times-japanese-textbooks-contain-203800335.html
>>23663292Whether its plausible or not has no bearing on the narrative worth in actually choosing to write it that way, though.
>>23663292At the very least, the fleet carrying out Operation British has to know what they're doing to some degree. Even if you don't think it's poison gas, for one thing even 'knockout' gas is lethal if you don't actively monitor the person and for another, you're deorbiting the fucking colony as a poor man's WMD. There had to be a lot of people fully read in on what was going on there for it to plausibly function.
>>23662393>The feds are corrupt and evil>Let me just work for them and make sure nothing changes.
>>23663212So overall it made the world worse, if you take Crossbone post-Victory mangas into consideration it indirectly caused the complete collapse of the Earth Sphere, nearly endless global war, and a loss of technology almost comparable to the fall of Rome
>>23663292> Ideally, I see the "lying to the troops and let them find out once the dark deed was done"0083 depicts just that, Cima being the victim of two incidents, first being told by her superiors that the gas she was deploying was just tear gas and repellent to force citizens to evacuate. Then after it was revealed to be G3 they basically hit her with the “well now you have to stick it out with us until the end since you’re a war criminal who will be subject to execution by both sides if you dare try to surrender.”Then at the end of the OYW her home colony was evacuated under the promise that it was only temporary only for said colony to be converted into the Solar Ray.
>>23663376But the thing with the colony drop was that it wasn't done before and, as you said, it was a poor man's WMD. You can't treat something never done before as a war crime, can you? Not only that, it was stipulated that further colony drops were banned AFTER Loum (that battle taking place after Operation British with pre-IGLOO sources claiming Loum happened as an attempt by Zeon to grab another colony and use it on Earth too).
>>23663496>>23663314Thanks
>>23663475I want to cuddle Cima.
>>23663496Anon I think it's clear we're using 'warcrime' as shorthand for 'incredibly unethical series of actions' here. Even if you peacefully evacuated a colony cylinder, you're essentially using a country as a missile. Even if you hit a valid target you're doing obscene collateral damage.'Oh they thought they were just pumping in tear gas' also strikes me as really unreasonable cope. If you completely fill a location with an irritant you're still going to kill people given enough time, and I don't think anybody would buy it. I'd at least have more respect for 'they were told it was a military occupied cylinder' or something.
>>23663269Gauman was more like>Mafty is my hero!Very shippable.
Which faction in Gundam commited the most war crimes?
>>23663470The technology loss is highly exaggerated and it's not quite that bad really, especially if you live on Earth (and isn't an illegal being hunted by MHA) or if you live on the Moon with Anaheim around.The Sides losing specifically the MS related tech and production capabilities without the support of one or the other is an expected outcome, especially after BESPA got crushed.Meanwhile, Jupiter Sphere is stable.
>>23662407>his own father executes himBright didn't even know whom he was executing until it was too late.
>>23662393Well, someone has to get fucked around here since you aren't.
>>23663531In UCOverall, the Federation (not even counting the Titans)Devastation caused, Principality of Zeon (not even counting Neo Zeon or other remnants and resurgences)Per capacity to commit them, Cosmo Babylonia
>>23663531Easily Zeon or Jupiter's faggots. People who say it's muh feddies are coping.
>>23663866And here I thought it would be Jupiter or Zanscare.
>>23663531What the fuck is up with Jupiter anyway? I swear the worst people all come from Jupiter.
>>23664031And I'm guessing that doesn't just apply to Gundam since you also have the Jovians from Nadesico.
>>23662562He specifically does not.
>>23664031In Gundam? They're space communists. I'm not being facetious.
>>23664073Are you saying that they all are Newtypes, Yaz?
>>23664429Yes.no i'm being serious, crux dogatie was in charge even before the OYW. and while they never obviously call themselves communists or spout rhetoric like THE FIRE RISES COMRADE jupiter is effectively a communist dictatorship. there is no such thing as private property because the state owns everything and unless you're part of the government you rely on handouts to feed and shelter yourself with strict food and water rations. you're not allowed to fug and have babies without permission either and generally speaking your job is chosen for you based on what you are good at if you're really good at something, or what juputer needs to fill positions in if you're a prole.
>>23664073>>23664429>>23665075This is why Judau was based for becoming a politician by the way. He tried really hard to make Jupiter not a complete shithole and eventually gave up and left to colonize a different solar system.
>>23662407also>shit pilot>gets wrecked by a net with the most pathetic ending for a supposed MC gundamworst thing of all is his Char obsession when he never even fucking met the man
>>23665075That sounds reasonable enough considering lack of everything in Jupiter sphere.I'm sure Zeeks had to do something similar on Axis and Mars.
>>23665110But like all gommie states, the problem is that it is a self-fulfilling loop of extreme poverty for everyone except the privileged party members. And also like all gommie states, their ultimate final solution to this is to simply take over every known society and cannibalize them for resources.
>>23665104he's not obsessed with char, thoughthe emp net was also desgined specifically to disable xi gundam and would have done the same thing to penelope or destroyed other mobile suits outrighthe's also not a shit pilot. In all the games he's appeared in from gihrens greed to sd gundam he's always been depicted as being an incredibly powerful pilot generally in the ballpark of amuro/judau/kamille but with lower awakening/newtype stat.in both the novels and the movie he's depicted as certainly being a vastly superior pilot to everyone in mafty, lane, and ken also.even in cca he's only really depicted as being a shit pilot in the movie.
>>23665104only kill of note was the friendly fire literal murder
>>23665149in the novels, he was the one who killed quess after dogfighting her in re-gz. he's so pissed at the state of the government because he feels like he killed her for nothing.
>>23662393Xi Gundam sucks.He should have requested an unicorn unit.
>>23665161Fukui is such a faggot hack. It makes no sense that Unicorn/Phenex/Banshee are so bizarrely overpowered in contrast to shit like V2 Gundam.
>>23665161>>23665165Normally I'd say the idea a weapon system is too powerful to consider creating or developing further is an unbelievable excuse but in this case the non 0% risk a Unicorn type could spontaneously cause the universe to have never existed is not worth the performance.
>>23665165Not really, side materials are already retconning stuff so that the F and V series of mobile suits are just as capable as the Unicorns. It's the Xi and Penelope that gets to eat shit because mobile suits from UC 90s are way more powerful compared to those two.
>>23665213Except that most of the bad guys of the late UC period would absolutely love to do that. Angel Halo for example is a massive space fortress made with psycoframe to absorb the spirits of over twenty thousand autists to harness their psychic powers to rewrite reality into a perfect althist. (Or at least that was the initial plan, what really happens is that reality goes totally fucky wucky and everyone exposed to its power rapidly degenerates as if gazing upon an eldritch being, unraveling both mentally and physically)Unicorn would even rape the G-Saviour, which is canonically supposed to be the most advanced Gundam ever made per the JP adaptation of that part of the timeline.
>>23665232The only thing Xi and Penelope really have going for them is their ability to independently enter and exit the atmosphere, their I-Fields, and their ability to basically ignore gravity completely even under terrestrial conditions.>>23665277Turn A and Gaia Gear are more advanced, but I get what you mean.
>>23665277My understanding from both Crossbone and G-Savior is that a competency and material crisis basically emerges in the latter half of the Universal Century due to the constant fighting, mass killing, and environmental damage. You can't build a psychoframe god machine if all the people that built the original one are dead and the data is gone because it was scrubbed with the base it was stored at being blown up in some conflict.
>>23662393THAT ELITE PUSSY TURNED ME INTO A RADICAL
>>23665326Did you also see that video or did you independently apply the Dracula Flow quote?
>>23665331I also saw that video. It's so good and fittinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiCghNGUKtA
>>23665165what a silly thing to say. V2 shits all over Unicorn in every aspect except maybe literal fucking magic, which is beyond the pale of actual MS performance. in fact base Unicorn with no newtype fuckery is not even anything special in terms of performance. not to mention it's shit on Earth compared to Vs who have m-flight.(i have become everything i like)
>>23665326JEJ
>>23665407>base unicorn without any of the retarded newtype magic powers like time travel and distorting reality which forms the basis of most of what it can do beyond shooting beams would lose to v2 therefore you are the basedjakebin argumentconsider this: if v2 couldnt use its minovsky drive and had to fight on earth, it'd lose to the rx-78 :)
>>23665693Okay, consider this: Unicorn with an oldtype pilot.
>>23665140>But like all gommie states, the problem is that it is a self-fulfilling loop of extreme poverty for everyone except the privileged party members. The alternative to that would be an abandonment of Jupiter colonies altogether, because the idea was otherwise unsustainable at current tech level (an issue that would only be fixed by the time of Late UC).>And also like all gommie states, their ultimate final solution to this is to simply take over every known society and cannibalize them for resources.Crux' "final solution" was to destroy Earth, which would fuck up entire Earth sphere. There would ultimately be LESS resources if it went through.
>>23665693The Unicorn can't do any of that, the pilot can. The V2 is better than the Unicorn.If you disagree, you have to agree the Nu can teleport asteroids.
>>23662687She didn't deserve exploding for saving Hathaway's miserable little simp life.
>>23666124>savinglol no, if quess hadn't came in between, chan's shot would have killed hathaway.there's a reason she is considered the worst one of the film.
>>23666171So, then it's Quess's fault.
>>23666072>durrrrrrrrrr if my mobile suit is equipped with magic bullshitium that allows the pilot to cast ultima REGULARLY, at WILL whenever he wants its not a feature of the mobile suit>this is not distinct from cca presenting it as a one time only miracle btwi do agree that nu being able to do it at all is retarded though but you're clearly just arguing from bad faith because you dont want to admit fukui is a retard.
>>23666525NT-D is useless unless you're fighting a newtype. so that's like half of the work trying to get Unicorn to work at all anyway
>Fuck Feddies and Zeon immah do things my own way!>fucks up hilariously to the point he fails even worse
>>23663866>Per capacity to commit them, Cosmo BabyloniaPlease elaborate. I don't remember much from F91, but they didn't seem THAT destructive
>>23668355They took one colony then immediately started going for near omnicide.
>>23668355I forget if the grandpa of the family was in on it, but Iron Mask's secret plan was to exterminate most of humanity with the bug drones, which were flying discs packed with lasers, saws, and explosives that targeted civilians and Feds. They only managed to deploy the bugs into one of the colonies and were stopped before the bugs could be used anywhere else.
>>23665161Did you forget Unicorn was written decades after Hathaway was a thing?
>>23668419If grandpa was on it Zabine wouldn't have turned on them
