The japs have been discussing american mecha fans lately on X. What do you think about western fans of mecha? Their odd obsession with "realism", demanding mechs should only play a small role (combined arms), not liking melee. Where does it come from? Where is it going? Can someone ever post a fantasy vehicle on an english forum ever again without some turdbrain going "ehehehe, a singular drone could simply effortlessly bomb that up to kingdom come..."?
>>23665597I just don't see them as people. Makes arguments easier.
I think posting twitter screenshots should result in an autoban.
>>23665636I think japans mecha community on X is pretty significant. I mean the fact that everyone here spends all their time arguing about what mecha industry guy said what or meant this, and many of them are just there and answering questions from fans is notable.If anything it's kind of weird that people here are so adversarial to the website that actually has all these japanese creators on it. It's like they prefer arguing about hearsay.
>>23665655Fuck twatter.
>>23665597Real mech fans love both styles. But for gaming the slower more realistic walkin tank is more fun. The boosting light speed dodges of gundam or ZOE are kinda lame and exhausting. But as an asthetic or model building they are badass.
>>23665665Trash subhuman slop
>>23665666fuck off satan
>>23665597It's an old school and ultimately obsolete way of thinking that's going the way of the dodo these days.For example: MechWarrior secondaries of yesteryear believed BattleTech to play exactly like their extremely primitive (but still fun) MechWarrior 2, meanwhile more modern fans of the setting create:https://youtu.be/7vbOrYjyYrw?si=E_XQpteJ8lbld5J2
>>23665655And if you want to specifically cite something from said mecha industry guy, that's sensible, but it's rarely that. It's usually stuff like the OP here, "hey guys, what's your opinion of random Takeshi's opinion?" It's gossip at best and trying to invoke some personal army shit at worst. Meta discussion of what some other group thinks is almost always garbage. Doesn't matter if it's twitter or reddit or spacebattles or whatever.
>>23665665>the slower more realistic walkin tank is more funno
>>23665665MW5 becomes almost unplayable in the late game because you need max tonnage to stand a chance at the endless waves of enemies thrown at you, but it makes completing any mission take 40+ minutes because assault mechs move like an elderly person lost in the desert.Somehow one of the only games that gets more boring as the difficulty level rises.
>GUYS GUYS LOOK AT MY TWITTER FEED PLEASE GUYS I DON'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH
>>23665665Git gud faggot.
>>23665689I didn't play Mercs but it was absolutely silly just how much of a shooting gallery Clans was at the end with the sheer amount of enemies crawling up your arse. There really was no approach to the missions besides line up your lance and focus fire everything to hell before they got to you.
>>23665597This guy doesn't watch mecha anime from 80s, the so called western mecha also got influenced by 80s Sunrise real robo shows like Votoms and Dougram
>>23665689Late game? I was already tired of that about a dozen hours in. If I wanted to play horde mode I'd fire up Gears of War.
>>23665791I like to talk about mecha on the mecha discussion forum.
>>23665597But the most popular robots in the west are Transformers and Evangelion.
>>23665666trips confirm
westerners prefer to project all their over the top power fantasies on cape superheros while military and war themed media is expected to stay closer to reality. probably because america is always involved in actual real life wars while most of asia draws from historic and fantasy wars.westerners strongly prefer stories focused on a team of grunts just trying to survive the battlefield over the stereotypical civilian teenager falling into the cockpit of the experimental supermech and crying "WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOR?"
>>23666867Finally a realistic depiction of tank vs mech combat.
>>23666867People say this but you can look at what americans watch and it's star wars and independence day and commando and whatever else and it's about a cool dude who shoots all the bad guys and the protagonist is generally around the same age as the target audience as well.For some reason they'll say mecha should be like the hurt locker but then go see star wars 9 or transformers 17 and giggle and clap their bellies.
Stop confusing vocal minorities with actual general opinions. The most popular robot series in the west are not chicken walkers or hyper realism.
>>23666889At least amongst the centre-left that makes most creative works there's a naive pacifist view that there's no such thing as a just war and all wars are started solely to enrich the wealthy and glorify the politicians and we can resolve everything with just understanding and tolerance.Hence portraying war as "cool" and "heroic" is strongly discouraged even if that's what audiences long to see. Of course that leads to either "ironic" shit like Warhammer 40k or "subverted your expectations" moments like that dumb scene in the nuStar Wars where they find out le evil rich people are making money off both the resistance and first order.
>>23666921Even before Disney George Lucas eventually implied that the Rebels were inspired by the VC and the Empire represented the USA in the Vietnam War which of course is something that could never be said out aloud at the time of release without him being ostracized as a communist traitor who hates America.
>>23666921I feel like ironic is the wrong word for 40k, it's always been satirical sure but it's kind of a recent phenomenon for it to go so hard on how the Imperium is le bad.>>23666956He's on record comparing Palpatine to Reagan, which is a fucking insane comparison but Star Wars has the subtlety of a brick covered in lemon juice. Not sure if it was after the OT came out or not though. He did however make similar statements about Bush Jr. when the prequels came out too.
>>23666921Isn't this basically just what gundam did though? You sure see a lot of people saying "we don't just want some teenager who saves the world... we want it to show the horrors of war and it's effects on people in a realistic world!" and yeah man, they called it gundam and it came out in 1979 and it's the most influential mecha anime ever.
>>23665597I like both
>>23666956George also said Bill Clinton is a good man. >>23667027>He's on record comparing Palpatine to Reagan, which is a fucking insane comparisonGeorge Carlin repeated called everyone in Reagan's administration the biggest lineup of criminals he'd ever seen. A lot of people hated him.
>>23666867stereotype gramps it's not 2010 anymore
>>23667447I hate the bastard too but probably for entirely different reasons than they do. Goddamn fudd.
>>23665636I don't see what the german road system has to do with this.
>>23667484It kind of is. We're even going back into another war, they just haven't decided against who yet.
>>23667743How bout I send my fist into your head at 90+kmph faggot?
>>23667391>Isn't this basically just what gundam did though?Yes, That's why we people who talk about dumb shit like that, retarded. Here's what you need to understand about that mindset: It's parroted by people don't really watch the media they claim to be fans of, and the reason it's prominent consensus is that those people infest all the journalism and media outlets writing articles and reviews about tv and pop culture. The Western fanbase is a massive frontier being gatekept by shallow minded retards who think they have an authority on what's good and what's not.
>>23666889yes genius, star wars and transformers are closer to superhero movies than war movies>but it says "wars" in the title>but the transformers are at warlook at the actual content of the movie not what it claims to be
>>23669219One of the recurring complaints is that "japanese mechs just feel like superheroes, not the real military!". Shouldn't they be fine with that then? Luke and optimus prime aren't soldiers (they are but whatever I guess) so it's fine but the gundam is a superhero but it's not so it's not fine.
Who cares? It's the Japanese equivalent of kids complaining about capeshit for the sake of being contrarian. Terminally online people are absolute retards who don't understand anything unless someone puts out a youtube essay.
>>23669437no, because military fiction is well established with western audiences. they want the same imagery and themes for a mech as they've come to expect for tanks, helicpters, etcliking superheroes doesn't matter because they don't want the mech to be a superhero, they want it to be a vehicle (with all the associated military elements)
>>23669670Why don't they just tell themselves it's superheroes and then it doesn't matter? They're fine with star trek but the mecha needs to look like a humvee with downs syndrome or they fill their diaper?I mean plenty of mechs already do, they just ignore those ones. I don't actually know why they don't get into them there's loads of the stuff. So the problem is they don't watch mechs, don't interact with ones that do cater to their desires, and then complain that it's not all just saving private ryan with robots. (not realistic either, but it's not like they know any better)
>>23669700>Why don't they just tell themselves it's superheroes and then it doesn't matter? They're fine with star trek but the mecha needs to look like a humvee with downs syndrome or they fill their diaper?They don't needed it to look like modern military tech, they want it treated like modern military tech in "real robot" media. Part of the complaints about modern mecha media is due to the prevalence of "Ace Customs" in supposed "real robot" media. Every single character seems to get their own unique one off unit with its own super powers. This in their minds shifts it from military fighting military to superhero fighting supervillian and that is not what they want from "real robot" stuff.
I think it can be both at the same time. In the original MSG79, we do see plenty of conventional fighting vehicles, though they all job horribly because that was the format of the show. In fairness, it's not like the Zeon mobile suits fared much better.I don't recall seeing any non-mobile suit combat vehicles in Zeta besides space ships, but the space ships are shown to be powerful, albeit vulnerable.
>>23669723G-Defenser
>>23669730was it not a mobile suit? it looked like a mobile suit.but I meant in the ground battle scenes on earth, aircraft or gun emplacements would have made a lot of sense since they were fighting in and around stationary bases, but I don't remember any. Then again, the Titans weren't the most competent bunch...
>>23669734It looks like a plane but it can combine with Gundam Mk 2
>>23669747oh right, that thing katz pilots. I had forgotten and got it confused with pic related.
>>23669717They could have watched obsolete. Why do they watch the one with unique mechs on the cover and think there wouldn't be any and then not watch the ones that don't? Are they stupid?Also that they like superheroes, they like "real military", but they're disappointed to find heroic elements in their fantasy military series, but they also loved transformers that had the military and megatron fighting each other. They saw a robot alien shoot a tank and blow it up and they clapped so much it made more money than some countries GDP. Maybe they just like it when shit sucks and is retarded and gay, like transformers.
>>23665657lol whine harder and stay in the dark
I love all the impotent arguments about "what the west wants" when the actual truth is really fucking simple>>23666822You keep creating phantoms.
>>23669831>>23666822They also frequently insist both of those "aren't really mecha when you think about it". Particularly transformers fans. Those guys get really heated over it.
>>23669831>>23669846Westerners are neurotic even about what they enjoy in their free time in private, they get embarrassed about any unusual thing they enjoy and imagine how they will be ridiculed for it in public or by their peers regardless of whether it actually happens and thus all the media they enjoy that isnt conventionally "for adults" must be covered in some layer that gives them plausible deniability. In capeshit and western vidya this manifests as permanent irony poisoning while in anime and manga they only allow themselves to enjoy the "subversive" members of a "childish" genre so they can say that this one isnt stupid and worthless like the others and its the one part of that thing theyre allowed to enjoy because it was made for smart people and not kids. "Eva isnt like other mecha, its deep and meaningful and not about the stupid colorful robots because they arent even robots. See, its not really mecha! Im not childish for enjoying it!"All western fandoms that enjoy something usually considered "for kids", cartoons, anime, mecha, vidya, comics, whatever, theyre all obsessed with chasing after "mature" stories that could be taken seriously by an outsider looking at them looking at it.
>>23669846I've seen people joke about Evas as a technicality, but I have literally never seen someone try and seriously make the case that it shouldn't be considered a mecha show.I'd believe it about Transformers though. Those guys are an odd bunch, and I say that from behind my box fort of gunpla.
>>23669894I just assume that it's an extension of some fans hating anything from the Japanese side, to the point of it coming off as a little racist.
>>23669894>>23669900As PC as it sounds its very much what you would call "internalized racism", as in their prejudice doesnt manifest as overt hostility but merely a dislike of anything foreign they rationalize as something else. For TF fans, they still think of "those crazy japs" that make everything weird and perverted and have no sense of whats cool because asians are inherently queer and effeminate, thus all japanese TF stuff is some kind of bastardization of the franchise to them.>>23669894Theres enough self-conscious Eva fans that love starting discussions about technicalities and semantics so they can always keep the door open to calling it "not really mecha". In the first place, the popular "its not about the robots its about the characters" that every one of them loves to parrot is wrong because the mecha are thematically significant as well rather than mere action setpieces.
>>23669751do you have autism? this isn't difficult to graspwesterners like military fiction, and they like superheroes, but those are two different genresi like salmon and i like ice cream but i wouldn't want to eat them together in one bowlby the way, you keep bringing up transformers. that's more of a "disaster movie" which is yet another genre, and in fact is one of the cases where mechs have had success (see: pacific rim)you have to meet western audiences halfway, at least, to get them in seats for your /m/ movie
>>23669919I think 'internalised' normally means more doing a self-racism, like you've accepted the things other people say about you as true. I get what you mean though. One of these Transformers fans probably wouldn't go 'yeah I'm racist, fuck japs' but still has their thinking rooted in the same kind of thinking that got us Robotech and jelly doughnuts.I'm glad that we've largely moved past the worst of 'haha/eww Japan weird' shit, but it's weird when you run into a place that it's still so prevalent. Especially when it was nips that designed all the fucking robots to begin with.Then again there's still people that act like western mecha exists in opposition of rather than as a complement to Japanese mecha, like it's not just two ends of the same damn thing.
>>23669939Youre right, I remembered the wrong word.>but it's weird when you run into a place that it's still so prevalent. Especially when it was nips that designed all the fucking robots to begin with.Im confused as well. There are some redesigns done by westerners iirc but many are partial to the first gen designs because of nostalgia. Perhaps its the same cognitive dissonance at work that allows people to like Dragonball and Pokemon but hate the rest of anime. Perhaps theres a notion that Transformers only became good when america got involved and established the characters attached to the designs; like how people think that the dub of dbz is better than the original.
>>23669936The fact that they all giggled and clapped their feet over pacific rim of all things just makes it clear what this is. They're racist. They don't like the japanese. All of these wishy-washy rules that don't seem to ever add up to anything make much more sense this way. Keep in mind they turned their nose up at godzilla for decades. They like disaster movies... when white people make them. Or jews, you know how it is.
>>23669936>by the way, you keep bringing up transformers. that's more of a "disaster movie" which is yet another genre,The Transformers films tend to follow the tropes of the alien invasion genre more than those of Kaiju or disaster films.>>23669939>Then again there's still people that act like western mecha exists in opposition of rather than as a complement to Japanese mecha, like it's not just two ends of the same damn thing.Part of that is likely due to the meme that "a copy is inherently inferior to the original" and therefore they don't want to admit the version they like could be classified as the "inferior copy." This seems to be why Robotech fans spaz out if Macross gets mentioned. >>23669947>Perhaps its the same cognitive dissonance at work that allows people to like Dragonball and Pokemon but hate the rest of anime.Pretty much. Dragonball, Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop and Gundam Wing get a pass because they are the cool "OG" version brought over to the west and they can like the OG.
