Fuck no Gihren was a retard who lost Zeon the war way before star one

Secret Rendezvous has Bright suggest they’d have never made it to boarding A Baoa Qu if it weren’t for Zeon seemingly randomly weakening partway through the battle. I guess Zeon could have fought the Federation off and sued for peace.

>>23693835
No way, Zeon lost the war way before the final battle. And even if Kycilia didn't off him, Char probably had a bazooka with his name on it

>>23693835
At best it would have probably been another battle of Loum situation where both sides would have fought to a stalemate.

For Gihren not to get a viewport through his head he would have not fired the solar ray and in that case Degwin and Revil probably would have come to a peace agreement while Char would have lost his shit over not only losing Lalah but seeing his chances of killing the Zabis off slip away and openly rebelled against Zeon

>>23693835
The show goes out of it's way to depict the Federation as struggling initially, and then a breakdown of Zeon defenses immediately after his death

But as it's been said and often depicted, even had he won the battle the war was lost.

>>23693835
Yes, their loss is pretty consistently attributed to a sudden and inexplicable weakening in Zeon's defense. It's even the basis for 0083, with Delaz (and implied to be others) pulling out of the battle right after Gihren's death, creating a massive hole in Zeon's defenses.

>>23693944
>But as it's been said and often depicted, even had he won the battle the war was lost.
Nah. The Federation was running on fumes and Zeon still had a fleet at Side 3 and half of Kycillia's main forces at Granada. Zeon would have been in a solid position to rebuild, especially since more recent sources outright say Zeon's technology was decades ahead of the Federation's, like the MSV-R manga. They just weren't able to capitalize on it because of the timing. Zeon wasn't expecting the Federation to move so fast after retaking earth. Not to mention they also had Axis and Delaz. The Federation almost certainly would have lost an extended war because they were not only behind in technology, their economy was in shambles, and they lost their best MS designers.

>>23693995
>Nah. The Federation was running on fumes and Zeon still had a fleet at Side 3 and half of Kycillia's main forces at Granada. Zeon would have been in a solid position to rebuild, especially since more recent sources outright say Zeon's technology was decades ahead of the Federation's
The Feds still have an operational superweapon while Zeon doesn't, if they fry the Grenada fleet with the Solar System then there's only the home fleet left and Zeon is still on the back foot. If the war continues the EFF isn't going to just keep fielding GMs, they're going to start producing better suits like the Quel and GMC2 and G-Line eventually.

>>23693835

No, him living wouldve made no difference in the outcome and they still wouldve lost to the federation there. The federation was fighting with seasoned soldiers and zeons remaining forces were mostly greenhorns with no battle experience.
They wouldnt have surrendered like kycilia did im sure.
Being the hitler follower that he was he wouldve eventually killed himself once they seized a bao qu.
They definately wouldve fired the solar defense system at the asteroid to wipe out as many federation soldiers as they could afterwards.

[/spoiler] did it work [/spoiler]

[/spoiler]did it work(2)[/spoiler]

It didn't work

work damn you

>>23694648
:D it worked. sorry for disturbing you anons

>>23693835
Zeon lost when Ramba Ral died

>>23693835
They hadn't retroactively made the Delaz Fleet a thing in 1979 so no
If there really was a whole extra fleet that just fucked off when he died then possibly. But notably Delaz himself seemed to think there was no chance of victory by the time he left.
Also if we take yet more retcon stuff, the Gihren's Greed games say that Gihren could have taken out half the EFF fleet rather than one third if he didn't shoot his own father, which seems like bullshit to me because naturally the greatest concentration of the fleet should be around Revil. But if you accept that as true then they totally could have won with an extra Delaz fleet and half the EFF gone.

>>23694006
>The Feds still have an operational superweapon while Zeon doesn't
Actually the Solar Ray torched the ships carrying the mirrors for the Solar System.

>>23693944
In theory, a Zeon pyrrhic victory as late as A Baoa Qu is not completely impossible, but it would not include anything on Earth.
Let's for a moment ignore the mechanics of how Zeon wins that battle and just say that they do, they kill Revil and either destroy or drive off the entire EFF force.
If Gihren has any brains, he immediately enters negotiations, because the fact of the matter is the Feddies will find it much easier than Zeon would to build a new fleet.
At this time Zeon controls:
>Side 3
>Granada
>A Baoa Qu (heavily damaged)
>Solar Ray (heavily damaged)
>Maybe the Jupiter Fleet, it's not clear how much of it is loyal to Zeon like Challia is
>Axis, too far away to help
Not much basically
Zeon's plan has to be to use the time the EFF spends scraping up a new fleet to try for an Operation Star Two to:
1. Repair the Solar Ray IMMEDIATELY
2. Mass produce the shit out of the Gelgoog with the United Maintenance Plan and train everyone remotely fit to pilot on it intensively
3. Build more Solar Rays if you can
4. Repair A Baoa Qu to operational status for basing all those Gelgoogs
5. If you insist on making something other than Gelgoogs, make it Elmeths so you can disrupt any preparations at Solomon and train all your Newtypes on it.
The idea is to sign peace before most of these really happen, though. Keep ahold of what you currently have, maybe Solomon if the EFF leadership is being weak and pathetic after Revil's death and the White Base's destruction.
Quite similar to what Imperial Japan ended up wanting by the late war (destroy the American fleet in one decisive battle and then immediately negotiate terms that let you keep at least most of what you've conquered).

>>23698029
>1. Repair the Solar Ray IMMEDIATELY
That would be trivial. They didn't even start the conversion until a couple weeks before the battle. They evacuate the colony they turn into the solar ray an episode or two before A Baoa Qu begins. People are really underestimating how much more advanced Zeon was than the Federation.

>>23698018
Beyond that, if he waited just a bit longer, there’s a possibility White Base could be taken out too, and without Degwin being killed, Kycilia might actually bring her forces from Granada to further bolster A Baoa Qu.

>>23693835
Gihren's Greed is pretty clear that the answer is 'yes,' and that if he does die it's an automatic loss

>>23698070
If they were so advanced how come they lost?

>>23703147
Lack of manpower and infighting (Ramba Ral not getting his Doms, Dozle not getting Rick Doms for Solomon, obviously Kycilia leaving her fleet behind at Granada then killing Gihren)

>>23703147
Infighting and the federation simply moved faster than they expected. Zeon got the solar ray out quickly, but not enough pilots into gelgoogs. The number of gelgoogs produced is all over the place too, from a few hundred to several hundred. But it's not like they couldn't make them fast enough, it's more like they couldn't get them into the hands of capable pilots fast enough.