Can anyone remind me if Beam Sabers clash against each other in Cosmic Era?The few fights off memory I can remember of MS CQC involved beam-coated shields that are supposed to do that shit as well as Phase-shift armour and production materials/plamo excerpts make it so all beam rifles and sabers expel out pure electricity so it seems it implies they pass through each other.
>>23701958Remaster removed 99% of instances of it so it’s assumed they’re not supposed to
>>23701958If beams passed through each other then beam shields wouldn't work nor Kira deflecting beams with his beam saber...
>>23701991I mean, the beam shields operate on the same logic that the shield of Artemis and the Hyperion's Armure Lumiere do but you have anything to reference Kira Jedi'ing beam rifle shots off?
>>23701958They clashed a few times Seed. They also lock sabers a few times again during Gundam Seed Destiny. Most of the time it's a shield blocking a beam saber. But more importantly....Director Fukuda recently commented on this and explained why shields are used so much in Seed during melee combat. It has nothing to do with beam sabers not being able to "clash or touch". Director Fukuda said he feels that shields are under-utilized in the Gundam franchise, and treated as "disposable" in many previous Gundam anime. He really dislikes that. Fukuda said hates the idea that a mobile suit's left arm is just dangling there during combat doing nothing except holding a shield in a boring way. Meanwhile the right arm is doing all the work with a beam rifle or beam saber. He hates that. So with Gundam Seed, Fukuda wanted shields to play a much more important role and be a vital tool during combat. For Seed and Seed Destiny, Fukuda choreographed battles to include shields being used as both tools and weapons. Like when Kira shield bashes his enemies, when Athrun throws his shields at enemies, or like when Kira deflects Raider Gundam's spiked mace with his shield and makes the mace smack into another enemy.Fukuda emphasized that Seed melee Combat is about "Full body combat" where every part of the mobile suit (arms, legs, head, shield, etc) can be used as a weapon. He even specifically says when two Seed mobile suits lock in melee combat, the shields are usually blocked by other beam sabers. Not because the beams can't clash, but because in the Seed universe if you don't block the shield, then the shield can be used as a weapon to strike the enemy. Fukuda said he drew inspiration from Riot police (and old ancient armies) when they shield bash their enemies. Fukuda also said that he thinks shields are cool, and deserve to have their own unique designs. So he strived to make sure each Gundam had a cool shield with a unique design.Now you know why beams rarely clash.
>>23701960>Remaster removed 99% of instances of it so it’s assumed they’re not supposed toThey removed some of them because those scenes were poorly draw and the animation looked too old and cheap. They also needed to make room in the episode for new scenes such as Perfect Strike Gundam being used for the first time. I think that's a fair trade.
>>23702014Freedom vs Providence. As Kira is being pelted by Rau's DRAGOONs and the METEOR is falling apart, he resorts to using his beam sabers to block shots. You can look it up on YouTube. This was kept in the Remaster as well.
>>23702121I dig it but then again he introduced beam shields in Destiny and somewhat made them redundant on the high end machines.But i really liked the shield move Kira did against the Bacu's
>>23702014>I mean, the beam shields operate on the same logic that the shield of Artemis and the Hyperion's Armure Lumiere do but you have anything to reference Kira Jedi'ing beam rifle shots off?Speak English.
>>23702208Fair point. Seed Destiny hero Gundams were overpowered. There is a follow up to this though. I think this very topic was discussed in the Directors Cut 4K Special edition commentary track. They mentioned how powerful Gundams were in Seed Destiny. Specifically naming Freedom and Strike Freedom in the conversation. Before going into production of the movie, the staff and Director had to host meetings and have deep discussions talking about how powerful Gundams like Freedom Gundam should be. That they were a bit too dominating in Seed Destiny. So they toned it down a lot for the movie, and introduced various ideas to balance things out. Stuff like:1. Kira getting tired faster and exhausting himself when fighting solo. Pilot fatigue. 2. Beam shields getting overloaded and shattering multiple times in the movie. 3. Beam shields being a huge energy drain. 4. Armor that absorbs beams. 5. Nuclear powered Gundams overheating during prolonged and intense combat. These nuclear powered Gundams coolant can't keep up and the whole suit has to shut down to cool off.6. Phase shift shattering when hit with enough power. (I don't think this happened in the TV anime iirc). 7. Several other smaller things I can't recall. Basically a bunch of little things to help balance the scales to make battles more even handed. So yeah the staff were aware of the criticism of Seed Destiny Gundams being too strong.
>>23702252>>23702121The more I'm hearing about this guy the more I respect him
>>23702325Movie still ended with a shiny new Freedom Gundam shitting all over the opposition.
>>23702208To be fair the Infinite Justice and Destiny still have normal shields underneath. And the Infinite Justice carries its boomerang and claw on the shield. The Strike Freedom is the boring one of the bunch
>>23702353Yeah and they did it while arguing over the nature of love, it was peak I say, PEAK.
>>23702121In the afterword of the first SEED novel, Fukuda and Shimomura said that when they saw the Strike-Duel saber clash, they nearly fell out of their seats in shock, and then Fukuda made sure to change it in the HD remaster. Sabers proper are not able to interfere with each other, and were compared to trying to clash the streams of water from two hoses.>>23701991In short, beams coming directly from an emitter are able to interfere with beams that are in the open air. The EM field holding the beam saber together is more powerful than the field holding a beam projectile together, and so it can dissipate it on contact. This is also how beam sabers and boomerangs are able to harm femtech armor.Beam sabers/axes can clash as of SEED Freedom, though.
>>23702640Didn't Akatsuki and Destiny Gundam clash beam sabers?Beam sabers clashed in the Seed Freedom movie too.
>>23702690No, the only clear saber clash in the show from what I recall was Strike vs Duel. And I said that.
>>23702640I think Legand and Strike Freedom clashed. I vaguely remember Destiny.
>>23702727We've discussed it before - there's a single frame and it's impossible to tell if they're going saber to shield or not.
>>23702640I don't know what to tell you anon. Fukuda said it. So either he changed his mind over the years, or he's a liar.
>>23702767Everything you said about Fukuda and shields was right, it's just also a part of the setting at that point that beam sabers don't block each other.
>>23702640This can't be true. Strike Freedom doesn't even HAVE shields to block with. And I vividly remember SF pulling out 2 beam sabers and duel wielding them against Destiny Gundam's giant beam sword. What the frak were they hitting if beam sabers don't clash?
>>23702796It has beam shields on each arm.Both units in that scene are using their beam shields.
>>23702796Retard can’t even entertain that he could be wrong
Where does this whole "Beam sabers dont clash" argument come from? They clash in every single AU, why would there be a reason to believe CE is different? Especially since CE so desperately wants to be UC with the serial numbers filed off
>>23702862See >>23702121 and >>23702640
>>23702811Show us the point of impact
>>23702866This is the very next frame.
>>23702865Doesn't Destiny block beams with its beam hands at some point?
>>23702868So they did clash
>>23702869No, it lost both of its hands when it tried.>>23702872No.
>>23702880>NoThen what is that bright blue CLASH?
>>23702882Saber against shield.
>>23702883How does the shape of a beam determine whether it can clash or not
>>23702883Strike Freedom has TWO beam sabers. Kira is not going to hit both of them against Destiny's ONE shield.
>>23702896The beam shields, despite the similar name, are a completely different technology. The positron reflector on the EA mobile armors in Destiny is essentially the same technology.>>23702897You don't know that. And hell, even if they didn't, Arondight is a solid weapon with anti-beam coating, and indeed should be able to clash with a saber like a similar shield can.
>>23702905You don't know how sword fights work. You don't swing at the enemy shield directly. That's a waste of energy. With your sword, you attack an opening or a less guarded area. Then your opponent is forced to to use THEIR shield to block, parry, or simply receive the attack without stopping it.This forces your opponent to get into an awkward position and leave them vulnerable to a follow up attack.
>>23702252>this sweetbaby employee is glasshousing anime again and the gaming glasshouse been shatter into a billion pieces under the same logic
>>23703018To me the most insane thing about concord isn't the insane waste of money, it's the fact those slaves were working on that shit for 10 fucking years.
>>23703018>>this sweetbaby employee is glasshousing anime again and the gaming glasshouse been shatter into a billion pieces under the same logicWtf. Speak English.
>>23703010Thanks for the lecture professor, but I'm well aware shields are used for blocking.
>>23703032You get an F.You are just as bad as those Star Wars fans don't understand lightsaber duels. You don't attack your opponents lightsaber. You attack their body.
>>23703047I don’t even know what you’re on about. I never said they were aiming to hit each other’s shields in the first place.
>>23703056You said Kira used 2 beam sabers to attack a tiny beam shield. Don't lie.
>>23703058Yeah, maybe they were blocked by it. So what? Do you think they had their shields active just for laughs?
>>23703059>Yeah, maybe they were blocked by it.Are you mental? When Kira dual wields sabers he doesn't attack the same spot. This same exact situation happened with Freedom Vs Saviour.
>>23702905>Arondight is a solid weapon with anti-beam coatingLul
>>23703216Anti-beam coating != completely immune to beams forever and ever
>>23703372Freedom and Justice have the exact same model of beam saber. Why can the Justice cut the Arondight but the Freedom can't?
>>23703431Because Killer is pew pew and Assram is slish slash.
>>23703431Again, it is not completely immune to beams, it CAN be damaged by them. Caught at a bad angle or put under enough stress, it can still be taken out.
>>23703458Note that this is only an issue with SEED for some reason. Nobody questions Hyaku Shiki being harmed by sabers, or the UE suits in AGE with beam resistant armor getting torn apart by AGE-1’s Titus pack…
>>23702357Follows through with his logic though. The SF has a second beam rifle to keep the left arm useful. I think Kira also started doing dual beam sabers, but it has been a long time since I rewatched significant parts of Destiny.
>>23703372Arondight is never stated in anything, anywhere to have anti beam coating. None of the anti-ship swords do. If it gets hit on the solid part by a beam saber, it's done for. There's no clashing unless it's beam blade to beam blade.
Has any manual or whatever explained exactly how SEED beam shields work? They're not a beam saber shaped like a shield, like UC's.
>>23701958Athrun sliced an antiship sword with his regular beam saber so they're objectively absolute shit.
>>23703548I question Hyaku Shiki lasting that long against anything, UC MS are made of paper.
>>23703594NTA but considering you’ve been wrong about literally everything constantly, I doubt it
>>23703628>Has any manual or whatever explained exactly how SEED beam shields work?. Yes>They're not a beam saber shaped like a shield, like UC's.That's exactly how they work in Seed. They are compared to beam sabers. The manual says they are like variable beam sabers, and beam shield is like constant flowing water out from the emitter. Apparently a beam shield system is also very high maintenance. It's very demanding on Seed mobile suit technicians. Suits with beam shields demand constant repair and maintenance after every battle. They are hangar divas with maintenance and repair crews. Another downside is the massive energy consumption. Plus the bigger the beam shield, the more power is used. It scales exponentially with size increases. The more hits a beam shield the faster it drains the reactor or battery. It also causes heat build up in the suit if used constantly. Seed Freedom movie showed us new weapons that are capable of of putting more pressure on a beam shield causing them to short out, or even break beam shields.
>>23703628So in Cosmic Era, there’s something called the lightwave barrier, aka the Umbrella of Artemis. It was miniaturized for use on the Hyperion Gundams, in the form of armure lumiere. It was then further developed by the Alliance into the positron reflector, and by ZAFT into beam shields. These are all essentially the same technology.On top of what the other anon said, we know that beam shields can repel beams, but physical objects that generate beams, like anti-ship swords or Legend’s large dragoons, can get through.
>>23703652I haven't been wrong on anything lmao
>>23703746You said that Destiny blocked sabers with its hands, no?
>>23703811Nah, you're confusing me with another anon.
>>23703733>but physical objects that generate beams, like anti-ship swords or Legend’s large dragoons, can get through.Although beam shields can block them if additional power is dumped into the beam shield to reinforce the shield. Like a nuclear powered suit adding more power to the shield. But this puts significantly more strain on the shield and the reactor.
>>23703431Because Justice hit it at the right angle. It clashed several times before it finally broke the sword
>>23703733Akatsuki's magic armor also works, since with Requiem it just slides right through the shield with no trouble
>>23703645Sting sliced an antiship sword with his regular physical claw so they're objectively absolute shit.
>>23704052Webm seems to not be working
>>23704072I am not affiliated with >>23704052 in any way and I can vouch that it works
>>23704072try clicking on it lmao
>>23704052>>23704076>>23704087Are you all blind? It cuts off before the sword is even broken.
>>23704108
>>23704052Guys... I don't think SEED tech is actually supposed to make sense...
>>23704108What?
>>23704052Hmm...something is wrong with this webm video. Why isn't it loading or playing properly?
>>23704110This the difference between phase shift vs no phase shift. Chaos has phase armor and can smash weapons that don't have phase shift.
>>23704116>>23704108It's the opposite for me, all it keeps showing is the sword pieces spinning apart with no explanation why it's broken
>>23704110dude why is it a blank screen
>>23704052What is going on with this video? Why is it skipping frames?
>>23703699>>23703733So are they some kind of particle fields, Mirage Colloid or something else?
>>23704311They are beam sabers in the shape of a shield. But need like 10 times more power. They are greedy little piggies that eat up all your power.
>>23704311Mirage colloid is illegal in Destiny. It notably was used for the beam sabers in the first war, so they found some other way to make them afterwards.
>>23704052This video is not playing properly.
>>23704552>Mirage colloid is illegal in Destiny.Mirage colloid is a type of colloid particle used for stealth and creating after images.Mirage colloid may be banned, but other colloid particles are not. So it doesn't affect beam sabers.
>>23704552>>23704757Mirage colloid stealth is banned, other uses aren't. Mirage colloid is effectively CE's minovsky particle.
>>23704052Works perfectly for me
I'm shocked at how biased the Director is towards favoring ZAFT. He gave ZAFT everything and took everything away from the Earth Alliance. There are no heroes on the Earth Alliance side.
>>23705237Yeah it's kind of crazy. They were simultaneously smarter, richer, and more sympathetic. The only reason the EA can even keep pace is because they keep trying to copy tech and because they have more psychotic leaders willing to pull off bigger war crimes to close the gap.
>>23705237On the contrary, it's the ZAFT side that's responsible for the absolute worst of the second war. The Alliance is generally reasonable people.
>>23705237I felt like they were almost reveling in the suffering of naturals showing their pained and terrified expressions as they died far more than with coordinators. It's not that there were no coordinator deaths like that or no dignified/implication/matter of fact deaths for naturals but the ratio felt off.I don't think they intended it to come across that way though.
When ZAFT dropped a colony on Earth in the first 14 episodes of Seed Destiny, I expected a much larger response from the Earth Alliance. Didn't they say entire cities were destroyed when it fell? When did the Earth Alliance only attack once and give up? Like....that's it? Just one attack and you ran away with it failed? ZAFT was already on the breaking point.Why didn't the Earth Alliance do a major push to get rid of ZAFT and push them off Earth? Not a single ZAFT earth base was attacked in the entire show. Why didn't the EA launch 5 Destroy Gundams, a fleet, and just wipe out ZAFT off the planet? Cutting off ZAFT's connection to Earth seems like common sense.
>>23704110How did the phase shift sword break?
>>23705424Impulse uses Variable Phase Shift, Shinn decided it was a GREAT idea not to armour his own fucking sword because he has two instead of one.
>>23705424>>23705428Most weapons aren't given phase shift armor. I can only think of a few exceptions (like Strike Freedom's rifles).
>>23705451Nah. I'm pretty sure weapons can have phase shift. Many Gundams had phase shift on their weapons. Busters guns were phase shift. Blitz guns was phase shift. Sword Strike was phase shift. Duel Gundam had phase shift beam sabers. Aegis shield was phase shift. Freedom's rifle was phase shift. Justice rifle and backpack was phase shift. Providence funnels were phase shift. And those 3 druggies Gundams were all phase shift.
>>23705468Are you stupid? None of those weapons were. You can see clearly they were in bright ass primary colors even with the units shut down
>>23705487Anon. Get some glasses. They all had phase shift.
>>23705451Why the fuck would you give a primarily ramged MS phase shift on its RIFLES? Did they expect it to parry bullets with the rifles? Or is it a case of "lol nuclear reactor has infinite output, just PS everything"
>>23705491>aegis throws shield>still coloredOh no retard!
>>23705507Are you being intentionally stupid? Watch Aegis launch and activate phase shift.
>>23705496I vaguely remember reading that the Freedom beam rifle has higher output than battery powered suit rifles, but the trade off is that itgenerates more heat. So the phase shift was added to help the rifle not overheat. Same thing with phase shift on the hip electro magnetic railguns. They can't be fired without the phase shift turned on. The phase shift helps with durability and heat.
>>23705468>I'm pretty sure weapons can have phase shift.Didn't say they couldn't. Most don't.>Busters guns were phase shift. Blitz guns was phase shift.Correct, you're talking about weapons attached to the MS directly.>Sword Strike was phase shift.Wrong, it retains its color even detached.>Aegis shield was phase shift.I think there was one instance of animation error, but shields with anti-beam coating can't also have phase shift.>Freedom's rifle was phase shift. Justice rifleNope, we see all with their coloration while off.>And those 3 druggies Gundams were all phase shift.Nope, they have trans phase armor instead of phase shift, and only in the area around the cockpit.>>23705487There is at least one anon in this thread who likes giving complete bullshit answers (I don't really mind because I like having the excuse to look through books and episodes for info I might have missed).>>23705520Pic related, episode 9.>>23705496No idea. Possibly because they're mounted on the MS when not in use? I guess you wouldn't want them blowing up when they're at your hips.
>>23705541I can't believe you making me do this. Are you being lazy on purpose? Here is Aegis launching from the Remastered HD version. Phase shift down on the shield.
>>23705588And moments later, my screencap. That is an animation error. Shields with anti-beam coating cannot have phase shift.
>>23705592>That is an animation error. Lmao no.
>>23705592You might have a valid argument if this were the original version. But this is the Remastered version.
>>23705592>And moments later, my screencap. That is an animation error. Your screencap is from episode 9. And is tiny. The other anon screencap is from episode 3. And much bigger. It's also not "moments later". It's a 6 episode difference.
>>23705594>>23705604>>23705606Three replies to one post in quick succession and all are wrong. You love to see it.
>>23705647IIRC correctly you can see aegis walking up to the catapult with the shield phase shift off.
>>23705541>>23705592Nope. The databooks specifically show the shield has phase shift installed. You are just wrong anon. The shield has phase shift. Accept it and move on.
>>23705592>Shields with anti-beam coating cannot have phase shift.*cough*Blitz Gundam*cough*
>>23705704*cough*Animation error*cough*
>>23705691Wrong. The very next page makes no mention of it having phase shift, nor does any other book. Find one.>>23705704Yes, I said that in >>23705541. Blitz's shield is an integrated part of the MS, not a handheld shield it picks up.I was overstating it with 'cannot have phase shift'. There are rare exceptions that have both, but it's very rare. This is because anti-beam coating and phase shift together are very hard to repair. In Blitz's case, the shield contains weapons, so the extra protection makes sense. Infinite Justice is the first to have a regular shield with both, I believe.>>23705709No, Blitz actually does have PS there. Just like Buster's guns, which are mounted to it, have PS. Regular handheld shields don't.
>>23705714Here's a page on the Blitz where it talks about the shield being integrated and it having PS.
>>23705715And here's Aegis's shield as a bonus.
>>23705715>>23705714The picture you posted literally shows that it has a handgrip and that it isn't permanently molded to the forearm.I can buy that the Trikeros has phase shift because the beam rifle and saber is built into it so it has its own power, but it's not "integrated into the MS". That's like claiming Exia's swordgun is permanently integrated into the body.
>>23705716Fukuda publicly disowned this. He said Astray Gundam or Seed Side Stories are not real Gundam Seed. Fukuda said it doesn't count since he wasn't involved in writing the story.
>>23705716obviously they haven't turned off the power and astray isn't canon
>>23705714It literally shows you a picture of Aegis with phase shift down. I didn't expect anon to show databook proof but he actually did it. That's enough for me. The proof has been provided.If you don't like it, then you need to show a databook picture with Aegis phase shift down, but the shield still colored. That's the only way to counter visual proof that's been provided to the thread.
>>23705716I mean it's not exactly hard to recharge the shield or connect it to an external power source to re-activate phase shift to show the audience how it works. They want them to bid more money. So of course they want to show phase shift.
>>23705722I didn't mean it was permanently attached, rather it's something that is directly mounted onto the Blitz.>>23705723>>23705724>>23705727>>23705729Again, bonus. Find anything that actually states the Aegis's shield has PS. Perfect File went out of their way to point out that Blitz's had it, but then, here's what it has to say about Aegis.
Found another databook picture that shows the shield has phase shift.That's 1 scene in the Remastered anime, and 2 databooks to back me up. Other anon has provided no evidence to counter my claim. To conclude: Aegis shield has phase shift.I rest my case.
>>23705732Not him but you're just posting coloring errorsJust find somewhere where it says "the shield has phase shift armor" and it'll be settled
>>23705592>That is an animation error. EXTREMELY unlikely. This is the remaster where all animation errors are supposed to be fixed.
>>23705738Don't bother. Even if you show direct proof from the anime he's just gonna say>That's an animation error!>That's a coloring error!He has direct proof and won't accept it.He's a sore loser.
>>23705738>EXTREMELY unlikely. This is the remaster where all animation errors are supposed to be fixed.lol>>23705740It's weird that you keep posting from databooks but the actual text never backs you up at all. Very strange.
>>23705541>Sword Strike doesn't have phase shift. It does.
>>23705745...not.
>>23705745>shows it fully colored in while the suit is greyUm
>>23705592>That is an animation error. Shields with anti-beam coating cannot have phase shift.Once might be an animation error. But not repeatedly. It happens in multiple episodes. The shield clearly has PSA. It's grey and turned off. This is such a stupid argument that you are trying to defend. Pick a better topic that can't be debunked by simply watching the anime.
>>23705751Why can Blitz Gundam Rocket arm have phase shift but Strike Gundam can't? Explain.
>>23705753>Once might be an animation error. But not repeatedly.You would have a point if we never saw the shield colored in while the suit wasn't or while it was out of contact completely. But we do. One way or the other, it's animated incorrectly. So if you can't trust the way it looks, you refer to what the characters say about it, and if they never specify, you resort to the data.>>23705758It's not a matter of "can't", but a matter of "there's nothing saying the striker packs are PS armored and they are always colored in completely regardless of whether they're mounted on the Skygrasper or nothing at all".
Okay so with all this data and shit getting thrown around, I might as well askHow exactly does phase shift even work? Like mechanically
>>23705765I don't think it was ever *completely* explained.Voltage gets passed through the armor material, and the armor undergoes a phase transition that makes it more durable. Damage taken causes fluctuation, and as long as it doesn't go past its limit, the armor doesn't incur damage - it draws more power and keeps the armor locked into that hardened state.It doesn't actually negate physical force or anything, it just keeps the armor intact. The internals and the pilot can still get hurt.
>>23705751>>23705752We know all the Striker Packs have their own separate power source. For all you know, Sword Strike is already phase shift up when being attached to Strike and the color is blue and white.
>>23705778Could be. They could also have a secret power source that keeps them armored even when the Strike is out of energy, huh?
>>23705762Where did you get this idea that weapons can't have phase shift when they detach from the main body?Providence Gundam dragoons detach from the main body but they still have phase shift.Justice Gundam throws beam boomerangs but they still have phase shift. Same with the backpack lifter.
>>23705782>They could also have a secret power source that keeps them armored even when the Strike is out of energy, huh?If Skygrasper is running around blasting enemies with the Launcher pack, then yes the packs DO have a separate power source.
>>23705786Those all very clearly have power sources already.>>23705789Obviously they have a spare battery on board, otherwise it wouldn't be a plot point that Strike can get back up and running by switching packs. I'm questioning why the main body would phase shift down but the pack would keep its color.
>>23705792>I'm questioning why the main body would phase shift down but the pack would keep its color.Because the pack hasn't run out of power. If it did, then Aile Strike would even be able to move. The thrusters wouldn't respond.
>>23705794The MS is still able to move on a basic level, phase shift is just the first to go at low power (see Kira destroying the LaGOWE after running out and detaching his pack). So why don’t the packs ever turn gray?
>>23705782>>23705797They do turn grey.Strike Noir's entire backpack turns grey after the last bit of power is drained from the suit.
>>23705794>>23705797Another stupid argumentIf they all have phase shift, why is the noir striker having it treated as exceptional
>>23705804As >>23705805 suggested, Noir Striker DOES have VPS (so does the Divine Striker). There’s no evidence the main ones in SEED have any kind of phase shift. This is all just “what if they had it secretly??” nonsense.
>>23705792Sword Calamity uses the same weapons as Sword Strike yet the entire suit has phase shift. So it is possible for weapons to have phase shift.Strike Noir's pack has phase shift too. And if you read the Manga, it detaches and Noir uses other packs.Tberes also a few variants of Strike Gundam where it's explicitly stated that the pack has a modified phase shift, and that's why the pack color is different (Pale Green VS Regular Green for Launcher Strike)
>>23705819Nope, as said earlier, trans phase armor is only applied around the cockpit in the second GAT-X series. The whole suit doesn’t have it, but the swords do? LmaoThe rest of this post has nothing to do with anything.
>>23705823>only applied around the cockpitNot true at all
>>23705826Gundam SEED Mechanics & World and Shigeru Morita disagree.
>>23705827>only the cockpitThat's not what the page says. Transphase shift armor was applied to critical areas such as the cockpit. Not "only" the cockpit.HUGE DIFFERENCE
>>23705839Oh right, it must have been applied to those other critical areas like… the swords? Lol
>>23705844Yeah? I don't see the issue. Strike Noir is also a Gen 2 Gundam (or maybe Gen 1.5) and it also has phase shift blades. What's the big deal?
>>23705844I sure as hell wouldn't want my primary weapon to be destroyed to stray vulcan fire so uh yeah.
Guys. It's pretty clear phase shift can be applied to anything. It has nothing to do whether it's "connected" (via a wire or cable) to the suit or not. The ONLY limiting factor is the mobile suit's power supply. The more phase shift you have AND the more weapons you have, then the shorter the battery life will be.That's why some mobile suits have Phase shift on some areas while others do not.Buster Gundam having phase shift on guns = makes sense. The guns are critical to the suit. Losing the guns would cripple Buster. It has no beam sabers either. Just the gunsmBlitz Gundam phase shift on shield, needle missile, and right arm = makes sense. Most of Blitz Gundam's weapons are concentrated in the right arm. Losing the right arm would cripple Blitz. Aegis Gundam phase shift on shield = makes sense.In robot form, Aegis Gundam has NO other long range weapons besides a beam rifle. It's vulnerable to long range attacks. The shield is critical to protect Aegis. So giving it a bit of extra protection makes sense.Sword Strike having phase on the pack and sword = makes sense. The suit has no long range weapons that drain power. No rifles or cannons. Just a big sword as the main weapon. So it had a ton of spare power. So it makes sense to put that spare power to use by making the sword pack more durable.It's just a matter of power availability and priority. What is the most important part of the suit?
>>23705857>>23706254>>23706267Christ you cannot stop samefagging can you? You got smoked, give it up
>>23705857No it doesn’t.>>23706254Too bad they don’t have it.>>23706267>Aegis Gundam phase shift on shield =Nonexistent.>Sword Strike having phase on the pack and sword =Nonexistent.>>23706270I forgot the thread existed, but he can’t help himself.
>>23706267I'm pretty sure we saw Blitz Gundams Rocket Claw and Sword Strikes rocket anchor clash against each other in battle. Both of them canceled eachother out. That wouldn't be possible if the Sword Strikes rocket anchor didnt also phase shift. Blitz Gundams rocket claw would have ripped right through it.
>>23706285That’s not how phase shift works dumbass, or physical weapons would always crumple and break against it
>>23706285The Blitz’s shield has PS - the rocket anchor doesn’t. Stop pivoting to completely random stuff.
>>23706295Bro is like a roach infestation>oh shit I can’t prove Aegis’s shield has it, lemme pivot to the Sword Striker>shit I can’t prove it has it, let me pivot to Sword Calamity>shit I can’t prove it has it, let me pivot to Strike Noir>shit I can’t prove it has it, let me pivot to BlitzStomp one roach and another comes out
>>23706292If Blitz Gundam rocket arm can smash through thick Battleship armor then it can break Sword Strike small rocket anchor. Unless it have phase shift too
>>23706316See >>23706292
I don't fully understand what is being debated here. Are you people debating that it's not "technically possible" for Aegis Gundam's shield to have phase shift?Or are you people saying it's technically possible, but Aegis Gundam's shield simply never had phase shift?If it's the former, then thats easily solved. Aegis Gundam's shield has a capacitor (small battery) that maintains phase shift when not connected to the suit. That's not beam boomerangs maintain phase shift when thrown.If it's the latter, then I'm sorry but to all the anons saying no the order of priority is anime FIRST (specifically the remaster in this case), THEN databooks. You don't read Seed databooks first and then demand the Seed anime must conform to the databooks. The databooks must support the anime. If they do not, then disregard them.Director Fukuda himself laughed and said not to take Seed databooks seriously. Him and the staff specifically said they constantly revise and change things to suit the story as needed. Fukuda said he doesn't want fans to be to focused on the details and miss the big picture. That seems to whats happening here. One anon read some outdated databook from 18 years ago, and is now hyper obsessed and won't let it go.
>>23706331Anime shows that it doesn’t have phase shift and the books back it up. Find one that says otherwise.
>>23701958>>23706308Hi Wackymodder84. Still getting mad about beam sabers clashing and 4chan making fun of your YouTube videos? Kekekeke
>>23706267WHY WOULD YOU PUT PHASE SHIFT ARMOR, WHICH IS1. EXPENSIVE2. HARD TO MANUFACTURE3. A DRAIN ON YOUR MS'S BATTERYON WEAPONS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MASS PRODUCED AND REPLACED WHEN RUINEDWHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ON ABOUT LMAO
>>23706335>Anime shows that it doesn’t have phase shiftI have watched Season 1 of Gundam Seed in many years, but thankfully other anons have already posted multiple anime scenes showing the Aegis shield with phase shift. So please do not pull that bullshit on me. I'm a reasonable person, but I'm not going to accept "Le animation error" excuse. Give me a legitimate reason to believe your side of the argument besides your personal opinion. Something like an interview from one of the Seed animators saying they made a mistake during the Remaster process and forgot to color the Aegis shield. Otherwise I'm going to have stick with whatever the anime shows on screen as canon. Remember that even Bandai has said that anime comes first in terms of canon priority.
>>23706349>WHY WOULD YOU PUT PHASE SHIFT ARMOR, WHICH IS >2. HARD TO MANUFACTURE It's not. Zaft did it on a ship in a single episode, and that was after they had only captured the Gundams for a short while and barely examined the stolen tech. Within a single episode they made entire replacement limbs for the Gundams. Once the technology is understood, they can make it. >ON WEAPONS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MASS PRODUCED The Gundams were never meant to be mass produced. At best, they were meant to be for certain ace pilots. The grunts would get the cheap basic stuff like Daggers.
>>23706354>but thankfully other anons have already posted multiple anime scenes showing the Aegis shield with phase shift.I've provided exactly as many showing it not having it. >>23705647 >>23705716 >>23705762Get real.
>>23706360It’s a plot point that the Alliance can’t make PS armor on its own because it needs to be produced in zero-G you complete dumbfuck>The Gundams were never meant to be mass producedThe WEAPONS for them were, you fucking moron
>>23706366>It’s a plot point that the Alliance can’t make PS armor on its own because it needs to be produced in zero-G you complete dumbfuck You have a very distorted and bad memory. This was never a plot point for Gundam Seed. You are are thinking of Gundam 00 and the original GN drives.
>>23706375>This was never a plot point for Gundam SeedYes it was, why the hell do you think the Gundams were made at Heliopolis and not on Earth? You're retarded and just making shit up as you go. Fuck off
>>23706331>One anon read some outdated databook from 18 years ago, and is now hyper obsessed and won't let it go.Nigga you've been arguing this with multiple people for 18 hours, you just can't accept you were wrong
>>23706360Assault Shroud itself doesn’t have PSA
>>23706377Same reason the rx-78-2 was built at Side 7 and not Earth.
>>23706420Because the material they needed, Luna Titanium, was only readily available in space? Yeah, that's actually very analogous
>>23706377>Yes it was, why the hell do you think the Gundams were made at Heliopolis and not on Earth?Because it was a secret development project in partnership with Orb. The Earth Alliance hoped that using Orb's Heliopolis colony would keep the project a secret from ZAFT. It worked for a while. But then ZAFT found out eventually.
>>23706437If that's the whole reason, why wouldn't they just build them in Orb, retard?
>>23706419>Assault Shroud itself doesn’t have PSABut we know they CAN add phase shift if they wanted to do so. Like we saw with Blu Duel Gundam and its assault shroud having PSA added to it.
>>23706366Do you have anything to substantiate that it needs to be built in space or are you just going to screech wildly about things no one else remembers even being mentioned?
>>23706441What is this? Are you being stupid on purpose, or did you not watch the anime?>If that's the whole reason, why wouldn't they just build them in Orb, retard?Because, if you weren't such an idiot speed watcher, you would known that Orb is a NEUTRAL country and wasn't supposed to take sides in the war. They declared neutrality. But Orb's leader, Uzumi Athha, still coveted weapons technology and wanted to build his own mobile suit army. So he authorized a secret partnership with the Earth Alliance. He hoped the partner would allow Orb to gain access to technology to build mobile suits. Uzumi also used their distant Heliopolis colony as a way to try hide the project from ZAFT. Of course all of this violated Orb's principles and neutrality treaty with everyone.
>>23706444>Do you have anything to substantiate that it needs to be built in spaceI literally JUST explained it to you>>23706449>Uzumi also used their distant Heliopolis colony as a way to try hide the project from ZAFT. ZAFT IS BASED IN SPACE, MORON. You're so fucking stupid, what the fuck is wrong with you? If they're already violating their neutrality and nothing about their tech requires zero-G as you claim, why wouldn't they just use Morgenroete's facilities in Orb?
>>23706453>I literally JUST explained it to youNo, you just stated it was the case and provided no evidence or any indication as to where said evidence could be found. Do you have any of that or is it just going to be you talking about how you're right and everyone else is a fucking stupid moron with a big butt and their butt smells and they like to sniff their own butt? Because it's mostly the latter at the moment.
>>23706459It's basic logic, you brainless idiot. I'm done with you, fuck off
>>23706461So no evidence at all, just conjecture and guesswork and wild screeching. Glad we got this clear.
>>23706444NTA>Do you have anything to substantiate that it needs to be built in spacePerfect Grade MBF-02 Strike Rouge + Skygrasper manual.
>>23706466See, this is how you discuss things sensibly. Thank you.
>>23706453>ZAFT IS BASED IN SPACE, MORON.They have numerous bases across Earth. They've infiltrated Orb several times. Didn't you watch the anime? You just keep making stuff up. Then getting mad when you are proven wrong.
>>23706466>Perfect Grade MBF-02 Strike Rouge + Skygrasper manual.So are you just going to make shit up or actually post the information. Because until you do you are just in the "make shit up" category.
>>23706484I posted the source, go look at it. I don't really care to put in the effort because you've been acting unreasonable.
>>23706469>>23706466Gundam Seed Astray is not canon.They literally manufacturered Strike Rouge, Raider Gundam, Calamity, and Forbidden Gundam on Earth. Orb even repaired Buster Gundam and manufacturered new phase shift arms and weapons after it was damaged. The anime literally contradicts the Gundam Seed Astray Manga.
>>23706484At least it's something specific that someone could actually check (not me, I don't have that). That's a substantial improvement.
>>23706486>Seed Astray?
>>23706487Then your best bet is to check Japanese sites that talk about and reference it. Good luck
>>23706490Don't waste your time looking at the gunpla manual. I'll save you time. The gunpla manual specifically references the Gundam Seed Astray Manga as the source when discussing Phase shift armor. The Astray Manga says that phase shift armor can only be made in space. Which obviously makes no sense with the anime.
>>23706449So Basically Orb is the "Anaheim Electronics" of Gundam? They claim they are peaceful and neutral but secretly are opportunistic, and will work with whichever side will give them technology and the best opportunities.
>>23706500SEED Astray is canon though? Didn't they add Rehome into the HD remaster?>>23706502Not really, more like Side 6 in 0080 which works with the Feddies despite being neutral, because they know Zeon is just that bad
>>23706500>The Astray Manga says that phase shift armor can only be made in space.Why does seed astray do weird shit like this? The writers dont respect the source material and come up with zany nonsense
>>23706486>SEED Astray is not canon>Both Red and Blue are featured in the original PV and opening>manga ran concurrent with the anime and helped cover up crucial plot holes>Re:Home was added to the HD Remaster>Not one but two fully animated episodes dedicated to Red and Blue respectively Comically incorrect.
>>23706486Oh shit it's this guy again? No wonder you're so unbelievably goddamn annoying
>>23706500Oh fuck off
>>23706486The druggie gundams use that other type (trans-phase?), but I guess the Rouge still works for this argument.>>23706505>The writers dont respect the source material and come up with zany nonsenseThat's pretty standard for all of CE though.
>>23706511I thought Strike Rouge was built from spare parts? Like the G3 Gundam
>>23706506I don't know what to tell you anon. Fukuda has publicly disavowed Astray and said Astray is not true Gundam Seed. His reason is because he didn't write Astray, and never gave his blessing for the story. He's said this several times over the years. Most recently when fans asked him about where Mighty Strike Freedom's katana came from, and if it was related Astray Red Frame's pilot Lowe. Fukuda got annoyed, said no, and then repeated that Astray is not real Gundam Seed in his eyes.If you want to get mad, then go debate Fukuda. Don't come here and yell at us. Go on Twitter and yell at Fukuda and tell him to make Astray canon.
>>23706504>Side 6 in 0080 which works with the Feddies despite being neutral, because they know Zeon is just that badDon't even get me started on that BS. Side 6 broke all their treaties with Zeon and deserved to get nuked. Side 6 literally put a Federation military base out in the open in one of their colonies. They didn't even try to hide it. Then Side 6 acted as if they were the ones being wronged. Completely untrustworthy and slimy.
>>23706514Relax, I'm just taking a cheap shot at Seed being poorly and inconsistently written in general.
>>23706514Can a director just declare a manga "non-canon" like Fukuda does? I think this is the first time I've heard of this happening.
>>23706511>That's pretty standard for all of CE though.Seems pretty extreme though. Manga is supposed to fill in the gaps and work in a grey zone to tell their stories. Not change the fundamental rules of the universe.
>>23706518No, and that's not really what happened eitherFukuda directed SEED Freedom and had people heckling him, "you got this idea from this Astray didn't you?" "is this a reference to Astray?"So he basically said "I have nothing to do with Astray, I don't know anything about Astray, the only Gundam SEED I know about is the one I'm responsible for". It's not like he said "nothing in those counts as canon" (although it'd be better for the setting if he did because later Astray is retarded)
>>23706522You are thinking of a different incident. This is has happened multiple times. One of those times Fukuda said that Astray is not true Gundam Seed in his eyes.
>>23706530Yes, 'in his eyes'
>>23706518Tomino has done it all the time. He said he doesn't consider the OVAs as "Real Gundam" in his mind. And that any other Gundam made without his involvement is just borrowing his Gundam name. He also said that the true Gundam is MSG, Zeta, and CCA. And that UC Gundam ends with CCA. He prefers people make new AU Gundams and to stop trying to extend UC.
>>23706538Until Turn A and G-Reco
>>23706331>That's not beam boomerangs maintain phase shift when thrown.They don't seem to maintain it actually. They have it when connected, but for example Destiny's boomerang's are casually blown up by Strike Freedom's railgun's from a long distance away so the protection isn't there when not connected to the suit. And it's not like SF's railguns are just that powerful to ignore PS because it fires them at Destiny point blank a minute later and the armor holds fine.
>>23706377Because they were being built in secret with Orb technology and assistance. Heliopolis wasn't zero G.
>>23706442Blu Duel's assault shroud is built into the frame directly and can't be detached so it's basically part of the whole suit. Different from the original assault shroud which was designed to take damage and be ejected and wasn't directly linked to the main suit's power supply (which is why it only added solid weapons) so powering the PS would be difficult.
>>23706511Orb also completely rebuilt the Strike on Earth in their facilities.
>>23706563Perhaps but we do know that Freedom and Justice Gundam's beam sabers have phase shift applied to them.
>>23706504>SEED Astray is canon though? Didn't they add Rehome into the HD remaster? Fukuda said it was just an ordinary supply ship belonging to Clyne Faction/Terminal. He liked the design and wanted to use it for the Remaster. Nothing more.
>>23706563>And it's not like SF's railguns are just that powerful to ignore PS because it fires them at Destiny point blank a minute later and the armor holds fine.Reminds me of an old databook that said although Destiny Gundam's armor wasn't breached by that SF's blank railgun attack, Destiny's reactor suffered internal damaged. Which is why Destiny Gundam's power out kept dropping the longer the battle dragged on.
>>23706587And?
>>23706607Makes sense. I remember reading that Shinn's interpretation "if that was a beam, this battle would be over! Is that what you're saying?!" is a sign of him being conceited, and that the actual point was Kira trying to straight up knock Shinn out with a point block shot to the cockpit block.
>>23706610*point blankHad blocks on the brain
>>23706609Are you the anon that was saying the designers wouldn't put phase shift on disposable weapons?
>>23706595Troll posts are against site rules
>>23706538>>23706544Victory????
>>23705751Irrelevant. We've seen Gundams launch with partial phase shift activated. Infinite Justice already had its shield phase shift turned on when launching.
>>23706666Sabers are disposable? Since when?
>>23706666I never said it never happened, I said "Most weapons aren't given phase shift armor". See >>23705451>>23706741It's not even mounted. The striker packs in SEED don't have PS.
bump
>>23706729Tomino for years hated Victory because it reminded him of that time of his life. In a recent interview he said he finally rewatched it and said that he likes it as a show now (but still reminds him of his depression).
>>23706771Technically since always. Ideally you'd bring them back but there's plenty of scenes in almost every Gundam show where a beam saber is just casually tossed away and replaced on the ship later.
>>23706778>It's not even mounted. The striker packs in SEED don't have PS.Nope>>23705745
>>23706771>Sabers are disposable? Since when?Since forever? In a perfect situation you would bring them back but they are designed to be disposable. Kira loses his beam saber several times in Seed.
>>23702811>It has beam shields on each arm. >Both units in that scene are using their beam shields.Except we see Legend and Freedom clash their sabers. Try again.
>>23702811>>23707553You guys are making the wrong argument.Beam shields in SEED use the same tech as beam sabers, and beam shields can block sabers. So sabers can block sabers.
Didn't Fukuda say in some recent interview that seed beam sabers can clash but that he prefers shields to be more involved in close range combat. I remember Fukuda saying he finds sabers clashing with other sabers too boring and overdone. He wants shields to be just as important in battles.
I like Seed Gundam mecha designs but the story is so trash. It reeks of Japanese banzai nationalism. Especially with the island nation of Orb being a stand-in for Japan. No wonder Gundam Seed isn't popular in the West.They should reanimate Gundam Wing. It appeals to the west more with its European royalty storylines and Gundams.
>>23707553Completely different scene and yeah, mistakes happen, we know Fukuda nearly had a heart attack when he saw Strike vs Duel clashing and went out of his way to fix it>>23707564Not exactly >>23703733>>23707571>seed beam sabers can clashHe didn't say that part, the rest yeah >>23702121We see in SEED Freedom that they're able to now
>>23707725>we know Fukuda nearly had a heart attack when he saw Strike vs Duel clashing and went out of his way to fix it Not what he said. Fukuda didn't like the choreography of the scene. He hates shields doing nothing in battles.
>>23707729Yes he did >>23702640
>>23702640>In the afterword of the first SEED novel, Fukuda and Shimomura said that when they saw the Strike-Duel saber clash, they nearly fell out of their seats in shockI read the novel and nothing like that was written. So stop lying and making stuff up.
>>23707771No you didn't, it's in there
>>23707772Idk why you even engage with the mindless idiot who thinks SEED Astray isn't canon and never backs up anything he says. I'm pretty sure it's the same guy who says retarded shit like "Blue Cosmos is going to be stronger than ever after Freedom".
>>23707772>No you didn't, it's in therePost it then.
>>23707780??? You have the novel, post it yourself>>23707778Boredom I guess
>>23707782I mean you're just wasting your effort, the guy deflects and jumps around different topics constantly whenever he's proven wrong, until he forgets you proved him wrong. You can cite 100 things and he'll just say "but what about this other thing".
>>23707782>??? You have the novel, post it yourself You are the one claiming its in the novel. So post it for all to see.
>>23707772>No you didn't, it's in thereI also just checked the novel to see which of you two idiots were wrong, and I discovered it's not there at all. You completely made up all that bullshit about Fukuda being shocked at beam sabers clashing. The funny part? I'm not even mad you lied. I insulted you made up a lie that was so easy to disprove. If you are going to lie then at least make up a more convincing lie. An middle school student could make up a better lie. This board deserves a better class of troll better than you.
>>23707787>>23707801Post the afterword or I'll accept your concession.
>>23707803The person making the claim has the provide the evidence. You made the claim Fukuda said in the Seed Freedom book, so you have to prove it.
>>23707830>You made the claim Fukuda said in the Seed Freedom bookHe said it was the first SEED novel, and I don't have that. You do, right? Post it.
Well, that pretty much settles it yeah?
I only take Maderfole's fanfiction trilogy which replaces Destiny and Freedom as canon. It has beam sabers clashing, so they clash.
>>23707837>Post it.You are the one that made the claim. Do you not understand basic English?
>all this SEED discussionThere's a beam weapon clash in Endless Waltz
>>23707943No I’m not. So you’re unable despite insisting anon must be wrong? Is this your damn religion, what’s with the dogma?
