Imagine being Fukui, and getting told you're writing the next big animated UC work. You write a solid enough LN series that has a coherent message and is thematically based almost entirely off the final conversation between Amuro and Char in CCA.And then your work gets adapted and whoever handled it throws out your story's entire emotional and thematic core and replaces it with powerwank and flashy moments.Well okay, that kind of sucks, but at least you got paid. Let's just work with what they wrote and add a sidestory where you add in the bits you liked like the Cool Jegan Pilot and the Neo Zeong and- oh no they adapted this too and shit on your story even harder than last time, jesus christ Narrative barely resembles Phoenix Hunting.You are now blamed for everything wrong with modern UC when you didn't do any of that shit. And nobody will ever defend you because nobody can be assed to actually read your novels.Which are here btw, except for Phoenix Hunting: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Gundam_Unicorn
Here's a list of random shit the OVA decided to change:>Put much more emphasis on the beam magnum and MS fights when a lot of the fights around colonies are short and avoid heavy weaponry specifically because the pilots are worried about collateral damage>Removed the closest thing the story had to a "main" villain, a young Republic of Zeon politician who's mad that his dad accepted peace and wants Zeon to rise again so he's funding the Sleeves>Changed Loni from a terrorist uncomfortable with her father's revengeboner and ultimately decides to betray him because she can't condone his actions to Generic Tragic Cyber Newtype>Removed the long explanation after Laplace's Box is revealed that was supposed to hammer in that the original charter itself was meaningless, the problem was that in a post-OYW setting the EFF were terrified of anything that could cause a Neo Neo Zeon>Removed the entire main theme of humanity, despite constant failures and setbacks, ultimately having good intentions (a "light inside the human heart", if you will) for the future that will help motivate the next generation, even if it doesn't lead to anything>Removed the Unicorn letting Banagher contact the souls of the dead a la biosensor, which was supposed to explain Banagher's gradual increase in piloting skill.>Removed the note that the Unicorn was only able to block a colony laser with the help of three additional Unicorn's worth of psycoframe, and also that it (temporarily) cost him his life in exchange>Moved Banagher's time travel sequence from post-dying after his newtype miracle to the fight with Full Frontal, and also changed it from being a personal journey where he achieves closure with his life and understands where Full Frontal went wrong into "hey check out all of these scenes from UC">Removed the explanation of what SOREDEMO was supposed to even mean.>Cut Mineva's speech in half and left out the part where she tears into Zeon for causing all of this by being so retarded.
>>23745930>https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Gundam_Unicornisn't this MTL?gunbusternovels guy is properly translating it and has finished the 1st volume.
>>23745930I would have excused him if that's really the case, but then he made Moon Gundam, which doubles down on powerwank and flashy moments, esentially turning the UC timeline into another generic battle shonen.
>>23745975Can't be MTL because it took 10+ years for all to be translated by Baka-Tsuki personnel. Question is, were the Baka-Tsuki personnel skilled enough for their translation to be readable?
But even that's nothing compared to what happened to Phoenix Hunting. The changes are so ridiculous you're better off just reading a summary of the original story.>Rita and Jonah are orphans on a beach. Rita is being adopted, and Jonah is unable to respond to her question about what he'd like to be reincarnated into before she goes.>Oops, Rita got adopted by a dude who was selling psychic children to the Titans so they could do Cyber Newtype experiments, her life is fucking awful>Rita eventually becomes a test pilot for the Phenex, while Jonah just drifts through life unfulfilled>The Phenex goes nuts in the test with the Banshee and kills Rita. This obviously causes Rita to connect with the afterlife, which transcends time>From this higher standpoint Rita realizes that the Neo Zeong actually exists, and that it's too powerful a weapon for current humanity to handle, so she psychically calls for help. Only the living can handle the affairs of the living, so she can't do anything herself.>The Phenex enhances her call for help so it actually goes into reality... but the only person who can even hear it is Jonah.>Jonah gets off his ass and tracks down the man who adopted Rita so he can blackmail him into getting him on the Phenex hunt mission.>He is baffled when the man doesn't even remember Rita because he sold so many children and there was nothing special about her.>Jonah in a Stark Jegan is prepping for the Phenex Hunt with the squad he's been assigned to, and his squad leader is suspicious about this weird newcomer.>The squad leader tries to connect with Jonah to get him to open up by sharing his past as a guy who inadvertently helped the Bunch 30 incident happen because he didn't ask any questions about his orders. Jonah sympathizes but his lips are sealed.>En route to the Phenex, the squad runs into a Neo Zeon fleet transporting the Neo Zeong to Full Frontal (Rita guided them there on purpose)
>>23746012>Jonah breaks from his squad, and with Rita's psychic assistance he takes down the ship solo. But he wasn't fast enough, an unnamed Zeon pilot docks his Jagd Doga on the Neo Zeong.>A Stark Jegan isn't doing shit against the Neo Zeong. Even when the squad leader comes in to assist (after initially attacking Jonah because he thinks Jonah was a Zeon plant), his MS gets controlled into being the Neo Zeong's puppet.>Jonah is ultimately forced to kill his squad leader and use the body as a distraction so he can jump into the Phenex.>The Phenex is able to defeat the Neo Zeong even after it puts up its psycho field, with the squad leader spiritually assisting Jonah. The final "blow" is the Phenex helping the Neo Zeong's pilot at least die in peace, finally free from the mental conditioning.>Meanwhile Jonah is experiencing a Newtype brainfuck as the Phenex connects him to Rita across time, and he sees how horrible her life in the lab was. He is able to at least psychically reach out to past her, which is what got present Rita to reach out to him.>After the fight, Jonah is effectively in purgatory and is talking to Rita at the beach about what he should even do if everything is fucked forever and humanity will only find peace after an eternity of struggle.>He considers just giving up and dying, but the fact this place has an exit means he must not actually want to die so Rita tells him to go.>He wakes up with the rest of his squad, who found his body floating through space and are amazed he's still alive. He watches the Phenex fly away into deep space, and realizes that the whole "I want to be a bird" thing was ultimately just a way to live life in UC: if you think life is dreadful, just fuck off like Judau did>He accepts Rita's answer and thinks about how his real "Phenix Hunt" is just starting, and won't end until he dies and reunites with Rita properly.
Improve your intuition and come back later. You'll be surprised once you realize how many times "normies" happened to be right
>>23746012>>23746015no wonder Narrative turned out to be way different from the novel. this shit can't sell toys!
>>23745965>Removed the Unicorn letting Banagher contact the souls of the dead a la biosensor, which was supposed to explain Banagher's gradual increase in piloting skillMy sides, no explanation is better.
>>23746831Fukui's a fan of "hey if the afterlife exists and ghosts are around, couldn't they be amazing wingmen?" as a concept. Moon Gundam recently hit its own psycoframe overload scene and he does it again, only much more obviously this time because I guess he learned that subtlety gets adapted out.The idea's been there since Zeta, but I think Victory was the only one that had the spirits actually try to help the pilot.
I hope Moon gets animated someday just because I want to see the shitstorm when more people learn about this scene, it's so fucking over the top. Fukui got the keys to use characters people actually care about and he went all in with the UC fanfiction.This is Kamille psychically projecting a Zeta to stop Char's retard rage over Lalah ghosting him while everyone else is getting dead spirit assistance. After this he directs Char to destroy the Moon Gundam because psychoframe tech can cause the worlds of the living and the dead to intersect and Mankind Is Not Ready Yet.
>>23747009As it turns out, controlling your weapons via psycommu means that anyone else with stronger psychic kung fu than you can steal your weapons. Sazabi vs Moon Gundam is barely even a fight.
>>23745965SOREDOMO can be explained by the damage to one’s penis for fucking Minerva.
>>23747009What were Tomino's thoughts on this? Like if he wad pissed about Unicorn how did this make him feel?
>>23747318I don't think he knows about it, since Fukui's still alive.
>>23747318people meme that he kicked him but it's just bullshit they tell to justify their own dislike. Tomino was his wedding matchmaker, he sought him out for Turn A's novelisation, they have attended various lectures together and the man thinks highly of Fukui's writing. I still don't think Tomino likes Unicorn but I haven't seen a concrete source, he probably just doesn't care.
>>23745975Also MTL, albeit cleaned up. >>23745997It's translated from Chinese, that's why. Also why the fan girls think Angelo and Frontal bone because the TL is fucking stupid
>>23747428>It's translated from Chinese, that's why. Also why the fan girls think Angelo and Frontal bone because the TL is fucking stupidI knew that (not Angelo X Frontal; that's news to me until the Gunbusternovel guys pick up the pace with their translation of the Unicorn LNs). As I come to understand it, even Google Translate is MTL and most likely, that's what the Baka-Tsuki personnel went with and only cleaned up after. Point being, Baka-Tsuki's translation predated how modern-day manga scanlators, especially those touching H-Manga, cheated with MTL for quick translations.
>>23747019Char is the last person I expect to pull this shit, the guy was never shown to be that strong as a Newtype.
>>23747444Gunbuster is also MTL, just cleaned up better.
>>23747471Moon Gundam absolutely runs on "the fan favorite characters are stronger because they're the fan favorite characters". The Moon Gundam is overloading and causing a psychic singularity? Well Char is fucking PISSED so he's going to push the Sazabi through the pressure field anyways.That said the reasoning is probably that the Moon Gundam is still using traditional psycom tech while the Sazabi has psychoframe.
>>23747482You know, for every accusation I've heard about MTLs, how can it be proven that a fan translation isn't MTL? If it's a matter of making translations readable, why bother keeping up with MTL accusations if the grammar is fixed? As long as something is translated, is it fair to accuse the translator of using MTL?
>>23745930So they have more faith on hathaway than unicorn
>>23747486I can see you don't read many scanlations.
>>23747486All Gundam translated material is MTL. There isn't a single person active or otherwise that isn't a Google TL'r. Sorry you're too stupid to see that b
>>23747486That's why I only call out the ones that are ass because it's low hanging fruit
>>23747516Same guy is going the Haman manga that everyone loves so much. If only they knew...
>>23747505>>23747514>>23747516MTLs are inevitable since the computer, and the Internet were invented as far as I'm concerned.
>>23746995>>23747009>>23747019What the fuck is any of thisI assumed the Moon Gundam was from Gundam X because I haven't seen either, but this is balls to the wall insane and I'm not sure whether it's>a good manga that's good>a horrible fucking manga>a stupid manga that's still fun to read because of how insane it getsIs the HG kit at least good
>>23747597you haven't seen shit yet
>>23747428>Also MTL, albeit cleaned up.The fuck you talking about? Dude's been in the weeds of Tomino's whack ass writing for years and you think MTL is going to understand all the weird references or the fact Tomino doesn't understand what WAVES and a widowmakers are? Fukui's writing is actually a blessing because he knows how to use adjectives.
>>23747597Moon Gundam was recognized to be one of the best HG kits ever released.
>>23747690Have you read the Zeta novel translations? Straight up DeepL sounding horseshit. His Unicorn attempt is no better. All the "scanlators" are utter ass.
>>23747718That's all Tomino's writing style. And the Zeta novels are a bad example because they're partially trying to be their own thing while also working from rough draft scripts from the series. However, Tomino kept forgetting what he did and didn't change for his own novels so things started swinging back towards what was in the show. But before that people joked the original 0079 novels read like appliance repair manuals because Tomino rarely uses metaphors and everything is like a terse screenplay.
>>23747764THEY'RE LITERAL CUT AND PASTE FROM DEEPL YOU FUCKING TWATStop trying to make excuses for something you're clearly to stupid to understand. God fucking SEA MONKEY
>>23747776Why don't you translate them yourself then? You seem to be JLPT N1 so it shouldn't be too difficult, right?
>>23747764also the only Zeon mobile suits are Zakus and Rick Doms, nobody goes to Earth, and Char kills Amuro and then joins the White Base crew
>fags complain about free fan translations>confront them about their own meccha omoshiroi nihongo desu ne~>thread goes silent
>>23747790Why would I waste time translating when I can read them just fine in their native language? LoCOWlizers like you should stay the fuck away before you self-insert your identity politics into shit
>>23747884Don't cut yourself on all that edge. Your wakizashi might be too sharp, anjin-san~
>>23747019>controlling your weapons via psycommu means that anyone else with stronger psychic kung fu than you can steal your weaponsThis is the next logical step from someone with a strong enough psychic kung fu blocking your psycommu usage or even your ability to sense them. This happens with Judau multiple times in ZZ, Puru outright redirects Psyco Gundam Mk II's reflector bits, and Amuro appears to block Quess's senses in CCA as well.
>>23747687Didn’t someone in the Crossbone manga manage to 1v1 a MS on foot, opened the cockpit, beat the shit out of the pilot and hijack it?
I've never heard the OVA was significantly worse than the LN before.
>>23747895Yeah and a comic-relief monkey helped the main characters save the day. Absolute garbage. Crossbone is the worst slop to ever have been made and no one would have given a shit about it if Katoki wasn't the one who designed the Gundams.
Why is it that normies just eat Unicorn up, is it really just because the animation is good? The designs are gay magical robot shit, Banagher and Mineva are dry 2-dimensional protags, and the plot is retarded pseud garbage. It is baffling how bad it is with all of the love people have for it.
>>23747687What the fuck man>>23747701Turns out it's a bit more expensive than I thought, but also what the fuck, why?>asymmetry>but turns out it's meant to be a crescent moonHm
>>23745930Unicorn is still retarded simply for blocking colony laser and muh future Newtype cause as the Laplace box. The OVAs just tripled down on the retard and didn't fix the core issue.
>>23748420Crossbone full retarded level once Hesagawa got full creative control. The first one is passable only because he followed the settings outline made by Tomino.
>>23748422The plot is fairly straight forward even if it's a cliche. Add the good animations, and, yeah, you have people getting into it even when they otherwise aren't big Gundam fans.The original MSG is held back by its animation. Late 70s anime just doesn't look "anime" enough. And everything else Tomino did afterwards is much less straight forward in one way or another.
>>23747895This also happens in Victory.
>>23745992Moon gundam is actually pretty good though.
>>23748444>Unicorn is still retarded simply for blocking colony laserGotcha, so CCA is retarded for pushing back Axis.>Unicorn is still retarded simply for blocking colony laserThe fundamental cause of all conflict in the UC was the rich Earthnoids booting the poor into space to make room. The "original" charter was the work of a rogue idealist trying to throw them a bone with a "hey if the spacenoid thing works out we'll give a seat at the table in return" clause that he snuck in on his own, a move that is explicitly called out as being hopelessly naive and got the man assassinated because a) it was retarded and b) it was a good opportunity to clean up political opposition. It was supposed to be the biggest example of one of Unicorn's main ideas of good intentions becoming corrupted because this seemingly pointless bit of trivia, meant entirely as a gesture of apology, ended up becoming a highly classified secret that could set off a Neo Zeon uprising because of the GIGANTIC COINCIDENCE of Newtypes becoming a thing. But the OVA didn't explain any of that shit and now people like you seem to think the charter was about saying Zeon was right and that Newtypes were expected all along.
>>23748454>HesagawaHe can't write anything except Super Robot plots. I give him some credit for trying but if his shit is ever adapted to anime a lot will have to be changed to get rid of the dumb rag-tag "arrrgh" campy pirate stuff he had going on. The post-Jupiter Empire content would have to be rewritten all together since it gets so insane that it's a mess. The only kind of cool thing there is Judau living under an alias with a junked out ZZ Gundam that's also hidden under a disguise.
>>23748422>is it really just because the animation is good?it really is, same reason why even absolute dogshit like thunderbolt is so well liked.
>>23748454>he followed the settings outline made by Tomino.he didn't, Tomino's name was just used for publicity. They occasionally consulted each other about plot a bit but it's still Hasegawa at the end of the day. His whole condition for taking up the project was that he would get to do whatever he wants.
>>23748605Hasegawa did make a point to consult Tomino at least for the first Crossbonehttps://zeonic-republic.net/?p=8647Tomino also outlined the basic setting of Crossbone which Hasegawa seems roughly follows.https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8635
>>23748560>Gotcha, so CCA is retarded for pushing back Axis.The Collective will of humanity concentrated for one moment around the psycoframe of the Nu and Sazabi's cockpit, causing a Minovsky craft like effect giving just enough nudge to push Axis back into orbit is not the same as Banagher blocking colony laser because he SOREDEMO'd. To make the last scene even more retarded, in the novel IIRC, Takuya went out on a sled to spread more spare psychoframe material around Industrial 7 hoping it would help Banagher generate a better psychofield
>>23748638So you agree that a little bit of psychoframe is allowed to cause a miracle if enough human wills converge on it. Does it not follow that a LOT of psychoframe could create similar miracles with less human will involved?>But that takes all of the magic out of it-That's THE POINT. That is the entire problem with psychotech and why Unicorn, Phoenix Hunting, and Moon have a subplot of it being technology mankind isn't ready for. Rita in Phoenix Hunting straight up says the Neo Zeong can not be allowed to exist because it can single handedly create a psychofield so strong it can breach time.
>>23748560>The fundamental cause of all conflict in the UC was the rich Earthnoids booting the poor into space to make room.The fundamental conflict was due the Federation not carrying out the migration of all people to space as intended by the founding of the Universal Century, The Spacenoid felt that they made the sacrifices but the "elites" on Earth did not. In late UC and even in G-Reco and Gaia Gear there was a general theme of Spacenoids wanting to move back to Earth or re-take the Earth as a continuation of this theme> But the OVA didn't explain any of that shit and now people like you seem to think the charter was about saying Zeon was right and that Newtypes were expected all along.No one ever said this. Everything thought it was a retarded MacGuffin that never made sense in any context.
>>23748645https://desuarchive.org/m/search/text/laplace%20-GBO2/type/op/Here's your last (you) from me.
>>23748639>So you agree that a little bit of psychoframe is allowed to cause a miracle if enough human wills converge on it. Does it not follow that a LOT of psychoframe could create similar miracles with less human will involved?No. Because it is clear it had nothing to the amount of psychoframe as Fukui imagined, but the amount of human will converging with the same thought. In the case of Axis shock, it was the collective will of humanity not wanting the Earth to be destroyed by Axis. The effect of Psychoframe resonance also seemed to have been consistently tied to Minovsky physics, manifesting in I-field like beam barrier, giant beam sabers and Minovsky Craft like levitation. It should not have been able to block laser.
>>23748649I accept your conession
>>23748437it has an internal skeleton that looks like a pseudo inner frame. that's already considered superior engineering considering the scale.
>>23748756Oh what, wow, I thought only that Netflix Gundam had that at the HG scale
>>23748454I started reading Ghost after finishing the first series, but dropped it after a few chapters because my god it got fucking retarded, and it drives me up the wall how fans think this shit is good and want it animated? Like if this was a newly animated AU series they'd be tearing it apart, but nah, clap for the cool pirate Gundams! Fucking gag me.
>>23748652I mean you mention an I field like effect right there. That said, it should have been manifested as a giant beam saber and then slightly deflects the laser by parrying it. It would have been more believable that absorbing the whole amount of energy.
>>23745965He approved of all of this btw, and then for the NT interviews he said the Unicorn could literally just time travel and disrupt the balance of the universe collapsing space-time. You're acting like he's a moderate when he's just a drooling retard waiting for Banrise to take the leash off.
>>23748422It's the music. The music carries everything. The fight scenes, the molodrama, the atmosphere. It's doing all the heavy lifting.
>>23748605>he didn't, Tomino's name was just used for publicityTomino's outline and major plot points from Crossbone are public info now. The final product is surprisingly close. Even a lot of the outlandish shit I assumed Hasegawa made up like Dogatie essentially being a brain in a jar with clones is actually in Tomino's outline.
>>23748996>The final product is surprisingly closeHow? Tobia's entire character is original. So is presumably a lot of the shit with Dogatie and the MAs.
>>23749005Tobia is indeed original. But he's pretty much a back seat observer and expository POV for most the manga anyways. Dogatie and his MO is Tomino's idea. I don't think he specified MAs as the tool he would use to fuck up the earth, but that's really not a huge assumption on Hasegawa's part considering the franchise.Now the tone and style of the manga is very much all Hasegawa, as is Tobias saving the day like a shounen hero at the very end. But I think it discredits Tomino (more than it validates Crossbone), to ignore how much of the manga's foundation came from his imagination.
>>23748996Either you didn't read the manga or the plot outline but not much is the same. >>23748984No he didn't. And it can't dumb fuck.
>>23747318Tomino on Fukui being the new head of UC, in a talk with Yasuhiko during June 30th, 2009:>Tomino: “But is Harutoshi Fukui, the author of Unicorn, the ideal successor? I’m slightly skeptical. Why? It’s simple, he emerged from novels. Ideally, successors should originate from anime or manga. So why entrust Gundam to a novelist like Fukui?”>Tomino: “Deep down, I’m an anime creator. It irritates me deeply to think a novelist might lead the franchise. It frustrates me immensely that strong new talent isn’t emerging directly from manga or anime. Fans need to stop just being fans. True creators don’t emerge from fandom alone. There’s a certain lofty starting point you must have as a creator, you don’t start at the bottom as a mere fan and then become a manga artist. It’s time to abandon this cheap, superficial approach. A work is a singular thing; there is no Part Two. Full stop. If you can’t cut yourself free of that, you’re just another fan. I recognize Fukui’s place, but I refuse to accept that something born of animation is losing to a novel. We need a mangaka who’ll seize those pages back.”
>>23747801>Char kills AmuroNah, it was some schmuck in a Rick Dom named Leroy Gilliam who shoots Amuro as he was about to join forces with Char and accidentally blows him up. That part is dumb. But the dumbest part is how utterly anticlimactic the ending is afterwards:>The Pegasus joins forces with Char and Kycilia as they agree their true enemy is Gihren>Kycilia rides with Char in his Rick Dom as they waltz into Side 3>they stop Gihren's limousine as he tries to escape>surrounded by Rick Doms, Zakus and a Guncannon, Gihren storms out of the car to shake his fist at them>Kycilia steps onto the palm of Char's Rick Dom and blasts Gihren into dust with her somehow human-sized beam rifle>Char flicks the Rick Dom's wrist and Kycilia falls several storeys to her death>Char stays in Zeon, joined by half the Pegasus crew including Bright and Mirai who take Zeon citizenship, and helps in its reconstruction>endIf that shit had been the actual ending to the TV show, Gundam as a franchise would've ended right there as laughing stock and it'd be other robot anime like DOuuuuuuXgram or Macross: Iron-Blooded Idols we'd be getting today instead.
>>23749729That's not how Tomino wanted the original MSG to end. See here on how MSG would have ended had it episode count not been reduced:https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/tominomemo.html
>>23749729>DOuuuuuuXgramHoly kino
>>23749729i remember liking the overall bitter tone of it when reading it decades ago, kai at least was just going>this shit fucking sucks dudewas grimly amusing
>>23749531>Either you didn't read the manga or the plot outline but not much is the same.Almost everything that's different is additional.
>>23750048Nothing in the entire main story line with Idmon that Tomino outlined appears in the manga. >>23749592This is Tomino being frustrated because he desperately wanted to be a novelist, this isn't him being pissed at Fukui, so your take on that is wrong.
>>23748987This. It made a bunch of newfags into Sawano dickriders and believed that he's the greatest Gundam composer
>>23754555Checked. Sawano did put it good effort for his UC soundtrack though. Being a gundamfag himself helped a lot
>>23745930>And then your work gets adapted and whoever handled it throws out your story's entire emotional and thematic core and replaces it with powerwank and flashy moments.Say anon, out of curiosity, how does Bande Dessinée and the NT manga fare into this? Are they better adaptations or what?
