Mecha anime literally doesn't get better than this right? The animation, the sheer depth of the characters, the nuances, that classic 90s style, it's the best
>>23785875But what I do believe that the next Evangelion series will be G-Reconquista but Evangelion.
Must we have this thread every nanosecond of every day? Evangelion is a good show, but there's more to mecha than it
>>23785880>Must we have this thread every nanosecond of every day?Yes. That's all this board is now, the same half-a-dozen threads on a perpetual loop, with the occasional banger that gets barely any engagement
>>23785880Maybe i'm just too jaded and old but everytime I see these threads I just default to thinking it's a falseflag by an Eva hater, precisely to make anons react negatively toward Eva and yap the usual "it ripped off this and that!" midwit routines
>>23786223>do NOT point out eva is a shitty ripoff of far superior works because uhhhh
>>23786522We've veen through this countless times.1. Anno isn't "ripping off" anything, he's making homages on purpose and he WANTS people to notice.2. Read "the man with a thousand masks"
>>23786558Anno literally plagiarised heaps for EvaIt's telling that Evafags can only seethe about this instead of explain how unique Eva is, because it isn'tHell, Shinji is just a worse Amuro
>>23786558Just stop replying man, there's no point in arguing with pathological haters.
>>23785875>Watch through Eva again for the hell of it>Realize Rei is just kinda...there for most of it>Anno himself didn't really give a shit about Rei and only bothered to flesh her out at the endWhy do people say she's best girl again?
>>23786573She cute
>>23786573Her personality was pretty unique at the time.
I thought Shinji had a pretty good point when he said "how am I supposed to understand you when you won't say anything"
>>23786588Shinji is a bitch ass but at no point is he unjustified in being a bitch ass.
>>23786573>>Watch through Eva again for the hell of it>>Realize Asuka is just kinda...there for most of itFTFY
>>23786573For me it was noticing just how often characters would literally explain their psychological problems
>>23786560The thing is, everything in modern media is "plagiarised">>23786566It's fun poking midwits
>>23787214Awful post
>>23787482You convinced me
What was it like to watch Evangelion in the 90s? Before EoE even existed or was widely available with a home release
>>23787589It was alright.
>>23787589ayo fr fr the finna vibes were lit and aesthetic af fr
Not even Gainax' best mecha anime.
>>23787589it was a fun rideiirc there was a raw of Death And Rebirth a week or two after it aired on WoWoWthey had a fansub of it at AWA 1999 End of Eva I recall downloading a cam of Air, but pretty sure I didn't see Pure Heart For You until VKLL did it with the LD release
>tfw you own the ADV platinum collection on DVD
>>23786588For all its faults, at least Fuyutski actually explained some shit to Shinji in 3.33
>>23785875People seem to mistake "I was moved emotionally" for depth. It's a pretty shallow show when you actually look at it.
>>23790657I think it goes pretty in depth when it comes to themes of alienation and isolation.
>>23790661I don't see it.
>>23790657>>23790669Retards seem to mistake "I speedwatched it" for lack of depth.
>>23790669Really? Not even the hedgehog's dilemma?
>>23790672I used to be obsessed with Eva. I've watched the show over a dozen times.
>>23790676What you didn't get it the first 11 times?
>watches Eva a dozen times>still doesn't know who Schopenhauer isWhy are you guys like this?
>>23790677No, I liked it a lot and wanted to understand its essence. Turns out it's not that deep.
>>23790683Okay retard.
>>23790684Bold words for someone who still thinks Eva is deep.
>>23790688My brother in Christ you don't even know who Schopenhauer is when the show directly references his philosophy.
>>23790689You're assuming I don't know Schoppy, and you're doing a thing called name dropping...
>>23790700Yes, I am name dropping a philosopher whose work is directly referenced in the show, and whose work is important to understanding the shows complex themes of isolation and alienation. You caught me. Well done.
>>23790702The show was also name dropping. Try to describe the complexity of the themes of isolation and alienation without just reiterating that Shinji is isolated and alienated.
>>23790703If you need a show like eva explained to you maybe you need to watch it a thirteenth time.
>>23790703Goddamn are you retarded.
>>23790702That episode wasn't written by Anno at all btw. It was a solo work of Akio Satsukawa, professional film editor and writer hired from outside of Gainax that wrote most of the show's psychology and character interactions. He'd never even seen a mecha anime before starting his work and instead wrote the whole thing "like a drama". And then we wonder why it was good and why modern Anno is a hack.
>>23790706If you need the concept of a rhetorical question explained to you, you're definitely the kind of person who would be impressed by Eva. >>23790707Have you ever noticed that Shinji never actually learns how to get over his hedgehogs dilemma at any point in the show or the rebuilds?
>>23790717>Have you ever noticed that Shinji never actually learns how to get over his hedgehogs dilemma at any point in the show or the rebuilds?I mean all of society kinda melts into one subconscious when they all become Tang in the end. Shinji accepts his lonliness and isolation and retains his individuality.
>>23790717>Have you ever noticed that Shinji never actually learns how to get over his hedgehogs dilemma at any point in the show or the rebuilds?Shonje does this when he stops strangling Usaka after she pinches his cheek. Not murdering out of embarrassment the girl who now knows him inside and out and saw his dick and cum-stained hands hovering over her nipples and instead crying on her tits is the sign of his growth.
>>23790719The show raised the issue of the hedgehog's dilemma and did nothing with it. Do you follow?You could say it's implied that he learns how to break out of his shell because he had managed to attract Mari, but that character growth isn't shown.
>>23790725>The show raised the issue of the hedgehog's dilemma and did nothing with it.I feel like we watched two different shows at this point.
>>23785880Yes but unlike other mecha anime evangelion is actually about the characters
>>23790725>The show raised the issue of the hedgehog's dilemma and did nothing with it.What? The whole point of the hedgehog's dilemma is that you either accept the pain of living or die, because hedgehogs freeze in the cold otherwise. That's literally what EoE is. Will you accept the fact that people will hurt you and go on living or will you cease to exist as an individual? Shinji accepts.
>>23790725Can you raise your AT field higher I dont want to look at you.
>>23790728
>>23790729THANK YOU. Thank you for getting it.
>>23790727Explain to me what the point of raising the Hedgehog's dilemma was without your point boiling down to "It was used to describe that Shinji was depressed"(Note: This is a Rhetorical Question. Your inability to describe the point of name-dropping the Hedgehog's Dilemma beyond being a variation on the theme of "Shinji is sad" will prove my point: my point being that name dropping Schoppy was, like the use of Kabbalah and religious imagery, a choice of style, not substance)
>>23790739read>>23790729It's not just Shinji. A lot of the main cast like Asuka, Rei, Misato, and even Gendo feel isolation and alienation. Gendo admits to intentionally pushing Shinji away in the end.
>>23790744I guess I just don't find people getting over their depression deep anymore* (*And I will caveat by saying "anymore" because I did love Eva and used to think it was really deep)Relatable, emotional, sympathetic, yes: stories about people figuring out how to get over their depression, like Eva, can be all those things.Deep?I feel I've seen deeper.
>>23790749What is deep to you? I'm not going to argue and say you are wrong, I really just want to see what your standards are and where you are coming from.
>>23790703>>23790739Kek you don't even know what a question is.
>>23790749>I feel I've seen deeperSo you looked at your mom's cunt once.
>>23790756Got em.
>>23785875>doesn't get any betterIt doesn't have a fucking ending because the director is an apathetic coward. You have to watch a movie to naturally conclude the story, and then even the director gives the audience the middle finger for making him do it.
>>23790750Naming specific examples would be disadvantageous for the thread.Instead I'll say that if Eva is deep, it's like an inward focused, self absorbed depth. The experience of watching Eva is like being pulled down into misery with Shinji, and then released at the end. As an experience watching the show this does work, and leaves you with a sense of relief.But the examples that jumped to my mind for deeper stories are things I could describe as lifting the reader/viewer up to a grander view.
>>23790754ESL or just retarded?
>>23790781>an entire thread arguing with a botBravo /m/.
>>23790782I'm not retarded. In fact according to my mum I have extra chromosomes to hold my supper intellignecmeneence
>>23790756Unless you were born in a tube we ALL sA the inside of our mother's cunts. Which is pretty relevant for Evangelion if you think about it.
>>23790380Based Nadia chad
>>23790784I'm not a bot, but arguing with bots would be very /m/ wouldn't it.If I name any examples I'll not only rob you of the joys of finding things that are better than Eva for yourself, I'll also start a massive shitflinging argument about matters of taste, and I don't have the energy for that.
>literally explains who schopenhauer is and his theory in exposition >"wow this show is deep guys!"fucking christ you are retarded. i guess family guy is deep for namedropping references to other media for every single gag
Turns out 2deep4u wasn't a meme after all.
>>23790803Like it's not just namedropping German philosophy it is a central theme of the show.
>>23790803It's not deep enough.
>>23790807Hate to break it to you guy, but "getting close to people can hurt" isn't some brilliant insight, and it's not made more brilliant just because a German philosopher said it too.
>confusing depression with alienationThere is a difference between being sad and being isolated. I think the characters in EVA aren't depressed as much as they are lonely and isolated, and this contributes to their pain and sadness.
>this entire thread
It's been over 30 years and you fucking faggots are still making the same exact shit treads with the same exact worthless platitudes about this show for total midwits.
>>23790819I am sincerely, genuinely impressed by Anno's ability to ragebait people for decades.
You're right. Eva is a show for people who want to feel smart and I should be watching media for actual smart people like Witch From Mercury and Code Geass. My bad.
>>23790823wew lad.
>>23790826I was being sarcastic. I get that sarcasm is kinda hard to understand if you are an ESL. Sorry about that.
>>23790828Oh no I understand, it's just pathetic.
>>23790830I don't care. I hate Ichiro Okouchi so fucking much.
>this threadWesterners are genuinely confused about Eva because they don't know how Japanese society works or what the "denpa" genre of 90s Japanese literature entails. Hence all of the cope about "muh decondtruction" and "muh 2deep". Hint: names of Toji Suzuhara and Kensuke Aida come from Ryu Murakami's novels. His novels, including the one Anno later adapted, Love and Pop (Topaz II) are about increasingly alienating and consumerist slippery slope of the already conservative and isolating Japanese social tradition. Evangelion is a "denpa" anime about the horrors of urban isolation, experienced by the staff as well. Another hint: why is it that Asuka, a foreigner, is the proactive drive of Shinji's growth that tries to force him to drop his Japanese "politeness" and truly connect to her as a human being? Why do Anno and Satsukawa talk so much about these Western ideas of introspection? Evangelion is a counter-cultural anti-traditionalist, almost pro-Western ideological offer from them that tries to teach the Japanese viewer about their own increasing loneliness and what to do about it. And their answer is to drop the smiles and gomens and genuinely hug each other. So yeah, this anime is unironically kind of 2deep4u.
>>23790832You do know I mean it's pathetic that this is the kind of thing you think of as smart.
>>23790822You make it seem like it's intentional and not purely incidental
>>23790822>Anno's ability to ragebait peopleAnno didn't do shit
>>23790837I don't think his works are smart. My entire post was sarcastic. I don't think Eva is particularly smart either, I just think it is good at expressing the rather complex idea of alienation and feelings of isolation.
>>23790834This isn't depth. Eva was probably made with some well meant intentions, but these particulars aren't deep, they're context.
>>23790856Depth is in the way the characters embodied those themes and interacted according to their archetypes (primarily in parts done by Satsukawa, who worked in live action drama)
>>23790860I'll give you complexity.Still not deep.
>>23790864Okay, I don't care
>>23790703>Try to describe the complexity of the themes of isolation and alienation without just reiterating that Shinji is isolated and alienated.That is all they did in episodes 25 & 26. Did you watch the whole series?
if a bunch of sub 70 iq fuckwits like everyone in this thread knows schopenhauer and the hedgehog dilemna because of eva then it clearly isn't fucking deep, they spell it out for you with zero analysis required. i suggest looking up depth and then looking up how to tie and noose because you retarded evaniggers deserve to hang.>>23790834this is the closest thing to depth eva has but it's still a family guy tier reference to pop culture.
>>23791203>this is the closest thing to depth eva has but it's still a family guy tier reference to pop culture.well I wouldn't say that. Let's not belittle what the show is about. It was addressing a real problem for its time and audience>>23790834I think a problem I have with Eva has been coming into focus over the years. It was meant for this audience, at this time, and it probably did some good for its intended audience. Eva has outgrown its intended audience and is a worldwide phenomenon, and millions of people have watched it and had their emotions stirred by the show. It's pretty universally agreed by people who have seen it to be great, and I'd agree that in many ways it is great, just on the level of technical quality.But I don't think it's a good or healthy show. I think it might have a way of exacerbating people's depression and drawing people into the kind of unhealthy head space it was meant to address for its target audience. So while it might have helped its target audience in Japan, it's created legions of obsessed, ravenous fans, while at the same time possibly transmitting an unhealthy depressive mentality that people who watch the show, and weren't the intended audience, otherwise might not have had. Medicine can be a poison if taken incorrectly. That kind of thing. I don't hold this against Anno and the people who made the show, it's not like this would have necessarily been an intended or predicted effect. It's for this reason though I don't think I can call Eva a truly great show. It's definitely not the peak of the Mecha genre either, but that's basically another issue.
>>23791280I'm the author of the original post about Eva's denpa origins and I think that the original Evangelion is actually kind of relevant in the same way Serial Experiments Lain is relevant. The whole world has kind of adopted this "Japan-ness" in the way people interact lately, moving most of our discussions and "connections" to the web, leaving the real world dull and soulless and eradicating true love and meaning in our day-to-day interactions. We've all become "denpa" and Evangelion is a good story about overcoming the phenomenon of modern social anxiety. But it has also been commodified like all true art that initially became popular for its artistic value but got diluted over time to leave only the marketable style behind.
>>23791492Yea I know.I'm saying I think stuff like Evangelion might be directly responsible for "japanifying" social interactions, instead of helping. This isn't something Eva fans will want to hear.
Midwits insistence on how shallow Eva is while elaborating in the most superficial way possible is hilarious. >>23791280>It's for this reason though I don't think I can call Eva a truly great showThat is nonsensical, but you're right it isn't a great show. No mecha anime is, but Eva is one of the closest.>>23790716>professional film editor and writer hired from outside of Gainax that wrote most of the show's psychology and character interactionsIronically, this is one of Eva's weak points.
>I watched eva 12+ times and eva is not deep>also eva is the reason I can't get a gfWhat the fuck is this thread.
>>23791890"Eva might have had a negative effect on people" =/= "My personal problems can be blamed on Eva"
>>23791738>Ironically, this is one of Eva's weak pointsWtf is this contrarian take. It's actually one of its strongest points. Almost every interaction is psycho-dynamic.
>>23791947I'm blaming you on evangelion
>>23792043>Almost every interaction is psycho-dynamic.Yeah I love this to because it even extends to the mecha themselves with all that Oedipus womb soul of the mother stuff. And it's not even that far removed from classic mecha like Tetsujin and Giant Robo who were metaphorical stand ins for the character's father. It's just way more psychological.
>>23791106If evangelion is so deep why is the pool at the end so shallow they can stand in it without sinking :^)
If evangelin is so deep how come it's only in 2 dimensions :^)
Why are western fandoms so concerned about Evangelion?I don't see the same level of paranoia and disdain for it in Japanese internet. Like you always see japanese people who like Tomino stuff and also Anno stuff no problem but westerners always seem conflicted
>>23792307Dishonest western journos poisoned the well too early.
>>23785875you gotta watch ttgl after. Eva constructed mecha and gave consequences to a child being forced to pilot and confront his fear but ttgl reconstructed it with bravery and courage
>>23792043>Almost every interaction is psycho-dynamicEva is constantly reiterating itself while its characters are mostly two-dimensional. Asuka's non-stop aggression and posturing to her inevitable breakdown is almost never interesting and is predictable - nothing new is ever gleamed for the most part in her interactions with other characters. Basically, this psycho-dynamism is the opposite of dynamic in expression, especially when you consider every character is in the midst of the same dilemma as Shinji, his other sides essentially. It's typically dealt with in extremities. Relationships are not really fleshed out and interactions rarely feature well wrought character moments in its entire run. People already mentioned the poor exposition at times. The most egregious example of Eva unnecessarily restating itself in dialogue I can recall atm is episode 5 after Rei slaps Shinji because of its immediacy. The criticism of banal or obvious observations, even cliches, being purported as something truly revelatory in the narrative or set up as a narrative punch are lacking is warranted.
>>23792524I think Eva has a solid foundation, and does great things with its characters at times but that's typically not the case. The visual storytelling is almost second to none, though. A lot of great moments are when the imagery and dialogue are at odds with each other and one or the other is undercut to get a deeper point, e.g. the dialogue between Asuka and Hikari on the bench during the Toji episode. That's a good example of what you're talking about. I just think a lot of scenes between the heaviness are not affective. There's also another example of its self-referential nature (Eva Unit 03 mirroring Unit 01 in a previous episode, the ending of episode 4) when Rei III makes her first appearance and the scene of Shinji awakening after the initial Eva launch. Eva is typically more overt, especially in the final two episodes or something like ep 20 when even new dialogue is added to past scenes to recontextualize moments. Eva does use repetition purposely to gnaw at a point and add depth to the past, especially when highlighting Shinji's stasis as character, but it's mostly in the latter half. Still, I think of near the end of episode 12 when Shinji recalls Misato telling him her reasons for joining Nerv, but you also recall the first time Misato showed Shinji Neo-Tokyo in the second episode. I think what's effective here is the framing of it as a memory that is then distorted by another memory within it pronounced by chaotic rapid editing to showcase his inner turmoil - his resolution recalls Episode 3 when his mantra is first introduced that is underlined by a steadfast and sick devotion to do what he is told and it being the way he gets by in life, yet he ignores the command to retreat later on as it would've been running away. What act would be "running away" is ambiguous to an extent here. It's tragic and almost comical how this is undermined by the end of episode with the close up of Shinji smiling as Asuka calls him stupid.
>>23791492It just came to me how to phrase it. What I've been trying to say, I mean. NGE is something of a Japanese cry for help, that would have been relevant for Japanese audiences in the 90's, they'd understand it and as an admission of a social problem, Evangelion was valuable to help Japanese audiences address that problem. It's spread out and become a beloved series worldwide, but I think instead of people understanding "denpa" and the Japan-specific problem that Evangelion addressed, or understanding the show as a "cry for help", it seems to transmit the denpa social condition to foreign viewers, by presenting foreigners with a problem they didn't necessarily have. In a perverse roundabout way, it can push people towards denpa style isolation and depression, as they try to understand the praise Eva gets for helping people. Like it makes people choose to be denpa so they can say Eva is great and helped them with their depression. If that makes sense.I'm actually referring specifically to my ex-girlfriend here, although I see this kind of thing online.>>23792307It's tsundere love/hate. On the level of technique, style, music, characters, writing, and so on, it's great. It's also very raw and hard to deal with. I love Anno as a creator, and am very frustrated with Evangelion.
>>23790860>primarily in parts done by SatsukawaSome of the best "home" scenes come from episode 15 and episode 4. Some great stuff in there.>>23790716He does give a lot of credit to Anno in the final episodes, though. I'm assuming stuff like the new dialogue between Misato and Kaji that uses animation from episode 15, which is good. That's interesting. I do feel you might be using your own experience to generalize how most westerners engaged with Evangelion, though. Those obsessive and ravenous fans are everywhere. This is only related to "denpa", but how do you feel about Lain? The producer said he was disappointed JP and Americans interpreted the show pretty much the same. I might be mistaking you two anons up. My bad.
>>23790781>What is deep to you?>I can't really explain what "depth" entails. I also won't give examples of media I think is deep. In fact my post is just as informative as a blank one. (you (paraphrased))>>23790795> I'll not only rob you of the joys of finding things that are better than Eva for yourselfPray tell, how am I supposed to find better media if no one mentions it? Do you think I spin a wheel of all anime ever to choose what I watch?
>>23792795>Pray tell, how am I supposed to find better media if no one mentions it? Do you think I spin a wheel of all anime ever to choose what I watch?Many years ago I stole an idea from Stanley Kubrick: he would go into a book store and pick books randomly off the shelves, read the first couple pages of each, and if any of them grabbed his interest he would buy it. I'm not that adventurous, so my "wheel" is limited to my genres of interest, but yea: if you're actually a fan of a medium like anime and not someone who wants to be led by the nose into a good time, you take the initiative and go seek out things to watch for yourself. Unless you really want me to put the spoon directly in your mouth.
I get the metaphorical angle of the hedgehogs dilemma, but genuinely, do hedgehogs avoid huddling together to warmth?
>>23792524>reiterating itselfI think you mean it insists upon itself
>>23785932EVAGUNDAMGUNDAMGYNDAMEVA EVAIt's due in large part to the user base being a bunch of zoomers and alphas now. They are so dumb they can't get into other series or find other series, as their decision making is so dependent on social media.
>>23792983Unlike other mecha anime evangelion is actually about the characters. I refuse to watch a 20 minute toy commercial unless its on x3 speed and with watch list to avoid filler episodes and filler series like ZZ Gundam. I'll just get a youtuber to explain the rest the rest in a 12 hour lore video to get what I missed.
>>23792850>>23792795I sort of do this by listening to anime OPs and MADs/music using their music or mecha anime cover channels. Whatever had the best music I'll watch. I got into Xabungle and Brain Powerd that way and did not regret it. Also playing super robot wars introduces you to a lot of shows. Or LURK MORE FAGGOT. Where did that mentality go? If you like something from a director or an era watch more shit from that director and era. Jesus just look at things that's it.
>>23792983>implying code geass isn't also the most popular normgroid mecha animekill yourself tourist
After rewatching Neon Genesis Evangelion to mark its 30th anniversary, I was wondering which other anime from that era are considered ‘Evangelion rip-offs’? (I don’t actually think that’s the case – they’re products of the same subcultural context – but you get the idea)
>>23796595Before Evangelion: Toy commercialAfter Evangelion: Eva rip-offSimple as
>>23796595RahXephon, Dual. Those are the only ones I can think about, and even Dual goes in a much more straight forward direction compared to Eva.
>>23790795>If I name any examples, I'll actually have to properly make an argument instead of larping as an intellectual to collect (yous)FTFY
>>23785875 Giant Robo, nigga
>>23804526>unfinished
>>23792307You'd be frustrated too if you'd think of yourself highly, but the only mecha anime other than Evangelion and Code Geass you've seen are some Gundam series.
>>23785880Yeah.there's also more to christianity than Jesus.yet here we are
I think it’s time to admit these two have a lot in common.
>>23793813kek
>>23785875It does, it's called Patlabor
Eva's shit. I cannot understand Shinji Ikari and I never will and if I can't get into the protags headspace then what's the point
>>23807812Did that man ever have hair?
>>23814897back around Ideon he was mostly haired, looked sorta like that doctor who turns out to be a robot in Heavy Metalwhat's REALLY fucking funny is the photo of him as a tiny baby and he's very clearly Tomino in the face, even more than the school uniform photo
>>23814879This and Gunbuster and even Fafner
>>23814915If you love tomino so much why don't you marry him huh?
