Tell me how it's bad.
Gundam 00 is Wing done right.
It pretends to have a deep political message while the political situation makes no sense. We go through like 5 or 6 different villain factions, most of whom are barely developed and last a few episodes at most before they get overthrown by yet another faction. How are all of these factions capable of taking over Earth's government but can't keep power for more than a month? More importantly, it gives Wing the feeling of compressing the 0079, Zeta, ZZ, and CCA into one show which makes the pacing suck. Zechs is way too blatant of a Char clone. All the Gundams feel like G Gundam rejects with how OP they are and their design, and the fights have too much stock footage in them, although those are also Wing's strength since everything else is not done well and is quite boring (like the arc after they go into space). Treize is a great villain but sadly underused.
>>23786034No. It's good.
>>23786185Name all the factions. I’ll wait
>>23786185The Wing Gundams were OP? Did we watch the same show? They got their asses kicked every other week and always had to flee
>>23786400If you have trouble with factions in Gundam Wing, you are sincerely too thick-headed to enjoy anime.
>>23786185>We go through like 5 or 6 different villain factions, most of whom are barely developed and last a few episodes at most before they get overthrown by yet another faction. How are all of these factions capable of taking over Earth's government but can't keep power for more than a month?Yes Gundam Wing was basically about the Yugoslav wars.
What was the kids goal? Destroy all of OZ bases on Earth?
>>23786698>What was the kids goal?Basically. Literally anything other than what Operation Meteor was originally supposed to be. It really is kinda dumb because the guys who designed the gundams basically let them go and do whatever they wanted with no direction or clear goal because they also decided the Operation's original intent was too much.
>>23786713>original intent Oh boy more cryptic side manga shit I have to dig through Dead Sea scrolls to learn? God forbid they put that info in the actual show
>>23787490>Oh boy more cryptic side manga shit I have to dig through Dead Sea scrolls to learn?Nope. An OVA. But to save you the trouble (if you assume it's trouble, which would be weird since Endless Waltz is an entertaining watch), Operation Meteor was originally the Barton family, who secretly funded the development of the Gundams, intending to drop a colony onto Earth. Then they'd send the five Gundams in to exterminate what was left of the human population on the planet. The Bartons wanted to free up the Colonies from the Earth Sphere Alliance and lord over Humanity living in the space colonies with their figurehead daughter they genetically engineered. The five designers of the Gundams, and the pilots, basically went "nah, fuck that". Thus, the beginning of Gundam Wing.
>>23787490They literally tell you in the first episode their goal is to destroy OZ and free the colonies from Earth's military.
>>23787494that is literally NOT operation meteor's original intentat a minimum that shit doesn't get mentioned until endless waltz
>>23787494Dumb fuck
>>23787509Bait
>>23787525>>23787520baited dumbfuck
Everything that happens in this show is specifically because the plot needs it to happen.
>>23786185In Wing, you had OZ, the federation controlling OZ, and White Fang which Zechs ultimately joins led by the colonies. The Gundams are anti OP because while they work against humans, the opposition quickly develops AI controlled units that take them out and force them to upgrade. Only WIng Zero and Epyon are strong enough to take them on. And strangely, Heavy Arms and Sandrock, but they're out of commission for half the show and upgraded along with the rest when they return. The only other factions that exist are the colonies themselves and the Sanc Kingdom which the main characters align with, along with Quatre's brigade of bandits that come in clutch in the finale. Nothing in Wing apes CCA, G Gundam or ZZ. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>23787509Operation Meteor itself was literally using five gundams as an anti-terrorist offense against the United Earth Sphere Alliance (The Federation) controlling OZ to reign debris down on Earth, later targeting their military bases directly, for the sake of the colonies. The great dramatic irony of Wing TV is that Zechs ends up fighting for the colonies against Earth (and all of humanity) and the G-Team need to stop him.
>>23787576But that’s wrong tho
>>23787576yes but there's a world of difference between "dismantle UESA and OZ to liberate the colonies" and "dismantle UESA and OZ so Barton family can start a new world order"
>>23787584>>23787586Barton family is such an inconsequential element of the plot to begin with. The only reason why Operation Meteor started to begin with was because someone outside of the family (Trowa) happened to be in the right place at the right time without a reason to go too far. So it's the same difference. None of Operation Meteor's origins effect where the plot goes, just the fact that it was executed.
>>23787664we're talking about what the original intent was, not whether or not it affects the plot
>>23787687>what the original intent wasSending five Gundams down to Earth and get into giant robot fights?
>>23787702action (wipe out the alliance) is not the same thing as intention (take control after they gone)
>>23786034Its not bad
>>23786034Because anyone who started with sloppy AU 90s Gundam isn't a real OG. Unless you start with Gundam 0079, and go in order of Zeta, ZZ, CCA, F91, and Victory, you are a fake fan and you need to comm yourself!
>>23788058I started with The Origin and then went in release order.
>>23788058Anyone who didn't start with Wing is probably a zoomer
>>23788058Based, but that's not related to the thread.
>>23788096There were in fact UC puristfags back on the old internet. They would shit themselves in a seething rage if they saw anyone with a Deathscythe siggy or avatar and call you a smelly "Winger" if that was your first Gundam.
>>23786034Wufei.
>>23786034so bad that for the big anniversary after doing gundam seed stuff it got nothing.
>>23786034It isn't.
>>23786401Only wing itself had a hard life.The other ones would show up and just blow up 500 leos and then leave.
>>23788305And that's justified but 0079 was fucking nowhere in the western world before the internet. You wouldn't even know about it unless you were some smelly convention going 90s weeb. My cousin was, he was always bringing home bootleg DBZ movies and had an early 1/100 no grade Acguy on his dresser.
>>23789182>didnt watch the show
>>23789209Nobody in this thread watched Wing.
>>23789397I did, which is why I know like 90% of people that talk about wing talk about fabricated memories that are just in line with their preconceived notions and not on the surprising levels of subtlety the narrative had at many points.Like why do so many people just ignore that Relena was ready to abandon pacifism until other people convinced her she needed to be he idealist for the cause?
>>23786034Every person's character and actions are overblown to the point of self satire
>>23789209Sure I watched it, like 25 years ago.
>>23786646I thought it was Cliff's Notes to Gundam.
>>23786034My boy Wing keeps getting blown up and I find that deeply upsetting
>>23789544>surprising levels of subtletylol
>>23786034Hey so like what if wars were fought by drones and AI, everything in society was driven by elite factionalism, and everyone's collective response was to retreat into performative pacifism? Not saying anything like this is going on in the real world or anything just a crazy what if.
>>23800205yeah but at least the music's better than some chamber music tea party waltzes
>>23789182The only one that escapes getting totally fucked is Heavy Arms. The rest get completely destroyed or ripped to shreds by the half way point and everyone has to musical chairs the Wing Zero for like 10 episodes.
>>23786034Literally just finished watching the last episode 10 minutes ago. It's shit. Dialogue is horrendous. They are just spouting nonsensical disconnected thoughts rather than actually having a conversation. Story and character motivations were all over the place. It genuinely felt like the writer was just making shit up as he goes without a clear idea of what he was doing. The gundam designs were cool tho. Especially the upgraded death scythe and gundam wing. And Relena was a cute. A retarded cute, but a cute nonethelesss. Also, all the heero dick sucking felt so forced.
>>23800205I wouldn't call the desire for pacifism in Wing preformative. It makes perfect sense when you realize that by like episode 26 the entire earth sphere is in the middle of a fucking 4 way global civil war between the Gundams, Oz, the Alliance remnants, and Oz: Treize Edition. That's already after years of sporadic war between alliance nations, and the colonies.
I'm nearly done with my 30th anniversary rewatch, and one of the things I love about Wing is the theatrical nature of the dialogue. The show really feels like an Elizabethan play.
>>23786034Heero is a really bad MC.
>>23786034False advertisingShe never shows up
>>23786400>Alliance>colonies>Oz>Treize loyalist Oz>White FangI think I missed one. The show jumps between who the Wing boys are fighting alongside every few episodes. When the show tries to present deep political messages and "endless waltz of peace, war, and revolution", maybe don't try and compress what in anywhere but an unstable shithole would be years of political development into the span of a few months and expect me to take it seriously. Or more practically as a viewer, don't do it in the span of a few episodes before we move onto the next faction.>>23787567Alliance vs Colonies = 0079Oz vs Colonies = ZetaWhite Fang = ZZ/CCAThe ending arc literally revolves as "what if Amuro and Char worked together to stop Axis from falling." And the five Wing boys and their interactions between each other feels like they're a retread of the Shuffle Alliance (global cast, Heero is Japanese, Duo is American, Trowa is European, Quatre is Arab, Wufei is Chinese, Sandrock and Shenlong/Altron have obvious ethnic influences like G Gundam shit), especially Wufei's arc later in the story which really plays with the themes of G Gundam. If you watch the two shows back to back, you'll see what I mean.
>>23786083Fpbp.
>>23802694nah it's corny 90's tv dialog with lame tropes up the ass, it's feels like it's made for kids more than any gundam prior besides Gand at least G fags KNOW they're watching shonen slop and unapologetically love it, while wingers are the biggest larping pseuds ever, like it's based to have it as your fav but don't pretend it's that deep when compared to the rest
>>23786034>AestheticTimeless perfection.>MusicSome of the best in the franchise.>PlotNonsensical garbage.>CharactersPeak of Katsuyuki Sumizawa never speaking to a human being outside of an office environment.Gundam Wing annoys the fuck out of me, because the designs of the mobile suits and the OST are, frankly, utterly wasted on the shit-smeared toilet paper that is the narrative. Just Communication and Rhythm Emotion are still to this day in my car playlist when I'm hoofing it doing 100mph down empty highways.https://youtu.be/I320E9Kg0z4?si=uASS0RV8gkNBJ_fdhttps://youtu.be/8j58CMy0OmA?si=CiHHoMxs6v2eeGE0
>>23806075Just Communication really is a banger.
>>23803902Retard
>>23786185>It pretends to have a deep political message while the political situation makes no sense.It doesn't really "pretend", broski
Is Gundanium tougher than Luna Titanium? The AC Gundams always seemed inferior to other Gundams specs-wise, but Heero fucking self-destructed the Wing Gundam and Zechs was able to fully repair the thing with minimal issue.
>>23810466Depends on how strong libra's main cannon is compared to UC super weapons. Because wing zero was able to take libra's cannon head on and keep its pilot alive.And if I remember correctly, the bombs were mainly placed in key component areas to prevent OZ from reverse engineering the gundams. But Zechs was able to repair it by using the tallgeese as a reference and ordering stupid amounts of gundanium alloy from space.
>>23810549In fairness, keeping Heero alive isn't very hard. He spends half the show trying to kill himself and never once comes close to succeeding.
>>23810549Heero self-destructed by detonating one of Buster Rifle's cartridges. I don't really know whether that says more about the Wing Gundam's durability or that the buster rifle's cartridge just makes for a really poor bomb.
>>23810466Depends whose piloting it, I always go back to Heero piloting a Leo when talking about Wong suits plot based durability, if a grunt is piloting it a shot to the main camera can literally blow up the whole thing, if Heero is piloting it it can shrug off dozen of hits, lose entire limbs, and still keep fighting
>>23810582Heero's the AC equivalent of a Newtype. Instead of psychic powers, he just has inhuman durability, and he can extend that durability to anything he pilots.Also, there's Quatre, who has unexplained psychic powers and can "hear the voice of space".
>>23810568it was lady Un piloting it, and she walked out of that suit without a single scratch. Half the suit was gone but the cockpit kept her safe>>23810577is it a cartridge? I thought all of the gundams used the same/similar self destruct mechanism
>>23810577to be fair, gundanium durability gets wonky when you consider that all of the gundams can perform unassisted atmospheric re-entry and be fine
>>23810595One of the self-destruct attempts involved detonating the Buster Rifle's last remaining cartridge.
>>23810608which one was that, was it from the manga? episode 1 was a switch mounted on his pilot suit, episodes 10 was just the regular handheld detonator switch
>>23810637It might have been the manga, actually. It's been a while so I think I'm getting the two mixed up.
>>23786034It's not great, but we've gotten so many Gundam shows that are just straight up bad that Wing looks like Shakespeare by comparison.
>>23810649So glory of retcons? And that’s what you’re basing your knowledge on? Anon…
>>23810568Little homie was in a month long coma after one what do you want?
>>23810924I mean realistically, he should be dead from that. Dude's just built different. He even bent metal prison bars with his bare hands. I think it's implied somewhere that Doktor J enhanced his body in some way, but the weird thing is there's never any indication throughout the entire show that such modifications exist. And if Doktor J came up with a revolutionary method to enhance Heero, it's still weird that it never came up in the show.Personally, I always just assumed that he was Wing's equivalent to Newtypes.
>>23810957I think I remember the show throwing out hints here and there with screens showing xrays and other medical science gibberish in the background. They never say it but there are some implications.And wing's equivalent to newtypes is quatre, but they quickly dropped that shit early
>>23810968I think it's more like they didn't want to say anything outright. Individuals like Quatre are probably still super rare and largely undiscovered. Plus, Quatre wasn't the protagonist. Personally, I think there was probably something special about Heero to an equal extent as Quatre. If he WAS artificially enhanced by J, then it's probably those qualities that made him the ideal candidate for the procedure.
>Heero, Duo and Wu Fei gets nice upgraded versions of their Gundams>Quatre just get guys>Trowa's Heavy Arms gets nerfed to hellWho the fuck thought of this upgrade line?
>>23810978>bonus giant gun is a nerfnigga hand in your american citizenship it's null and void
>>23810978Sandrock got a space uzi for it's upgrade, that was basically it. Honestly Sandrock had a decent looking design but it was by far the most useless suit in the show and once they moved to space they basically gave up trying to make it relevant >>23810981twice the dakka rate with the same ammo storage just means running out twice as fast. But hey making any meaningful changes to the design means they would have had to actually make some new animation for it instead of slightly tweaking the exact same recycled frames they used for every fucking Heavyarms sequence in the entire show
Wing Zero's main improvement over Wing Gundam is having two Buster Rifles taped together. Obviously, it got a bunch of other improvements, but that's really the main one. Of course, it got the Z.E.R.O. System as well, but you can slap that onto anything. The only reason everyone didn't get it is because Heero and Zechs were the only ones who could handle it. And even Zechs wasn't as good with it as Heero was.
>>23811018didn't quatre also get it installed on his suit near the end? also technically dororthy since she's using a slightly modified version to control mobile dolls
>>23811036Quatre wasn't as good with it, but he was able to utilize it to take command. It still seemed to give him a hard time. Zechs was generally better with it, but it was clear he was no match for Heero. Of the four, Heero was the only one to truly master it. Dorothy was probably on Zechs' level.
>>23810981Heavyarms and Sandrock upgrades got jackshit for visual improvements compared to Wing, Deathscythe and Shelong visual improvements to Wing Zero, Deathscythe Hell and Altron.
>>23810994>twice the dakka rate with the same ammo storage just means running out twice as fast.That's only a problem if Wing was the type of show to be anal about ammo count, but Heavyarms never even runs out of ammo when the story reaches the later stages, they only bothered to animate him dramatically dropping the empty beam gatling on earth, never in space.>>23811042>>23811036Zechs and Heero end up mastering the Zero system at roughly the same point in the story, the last time they end up having an issue with it was episode 37 which is when they trade suits after briefly fighting each other. That said, Heero's had more time using the Zero system than Zechs did up to that point since Heero had psychotic rampages in both the Wing Zero and Epyon by then, so you could say Zechs adjusted to it in less time.Quatre had a copy of the Zero system installed in Sandrock for one battle to counter Dorothy, and had it removed afterward. Dorothy is apparently really strong-willed because she never had a breakdown while using the Zero system with the mobile dolls, at least that we know of, since such a thing was never shown onscreen if it happened.
>>23811081When in a contest between two advanced users of the Z.E.R.O. System with roughly the same degree of skill as pilots, the winner is the one who is able to best choose the most appropriate of the myriad options that the system gives them. Heero had become more "in tune" with the system and became more efficient at choosing the route he preferred. In Endless Waltz, he could also easily ignore Z.E.R.O.'s suggestions, hence why he refused to use the Buster Rifle while fighting Wufei.What truly held Zechs back was that he wasn't completely and wholly convinced that his plan was the correct one. This is why he accepted his loss to Heero so gracefully. One of the factors that allows one to truly master the Z.E.R.O. System, aside from strength of will and mental stamina, is the ability to truly be able to think through all of one's options and without hesitation choose the path that they genuinely want most. Heero knew what he wanted without the slightest sliver of doubt, while Zechs still had doubts that he just forcibly tried to ignore. You have to be absolutely, 100% true to yourself from start to finish, otherwise you'll just become a puppet of the system or inadvertently choose the wrong route when better one might exist.
>>23810957What…what do you think a “newtype” is? Holy shit you can’t be real
>>23810978>retard trio eat such massive shit that they need entirely new machines because their old ones are destroyed down to scrap >based Trowa doesn’t >retard anons think this is a bad thing Remarkable even decades later
>>23811185I mean, he's just thinking along the same lines as people who used to consider Seed's Coordinators as that shows Newtype equivalent, before the show revealed it's actual Newtypes
>>23810994>twice the dakka rate with the same ammo storage just means running out twice as fast.They already handwaved ammo capacity away because it's a beam gatling so they probably said "it's got better batteries now!" or something.
>>23811185Space mutants. In UC, space mutants have psychic powers and time travel. In AC, space mutants are just really, really tough.
>>23810981>hand in your american citizenshipthis is not a punishment in the 2020s
>>23815485America is still the strongest nation on Earth.
>>23786034Very boring characters and its as deep as puddle while at the same time is a yap fest. Shoulda just played into the ham impression it gives off via looks and go full action.
