Fixed. Perfection was there the whole time.
I will take a unit from Dragonnar and slap the Zeta Gundam chest on it. Yes perfection
The Re-GZ is irredeemable trash. The only thing that saved it was completely rebuilding the entire damn thing so that it could transform without having to rely on a backpack.
>>23857223It actually wouldn’t have been trash if it was a mass production type machine rather than being a commander/Ace type machine
>>23857107>Refined Gundam Zeta>no Refined Gundam ZZTomino really hated ZZ huh?
>>23857500It already existed in the main show, the only difference is that the enhanced ZZ Gundam was an actual improvement over the original and that it is the original machine modified
>>23857500 might just be a decision on the mecha designers' side of things ..actually has tomino ever had any quoted opinions on mecha design specifically? >>23857107 i really like how it keeps the sharp styling of the original faceplate while also kinda doing its own thing
>>23857508>>23857500For the Feddies, Refined usually applies to redesigned machines intended for mass production. In this case, ZZ already has variants from MSV and manga for mass production, but none of them have the refined name.>>23857513>..actually has tomino ever had any quoted opinions on mecha design specifically? See here https://www.gundamunofficial.com/ and specifically look at some of the production histories like MSG and VictoryDunno about any specific opinions, but Tomino has actually occasionally contributed to mecha designs. He provided the initial concepts for the Gelgoog and a bunch of mobile armors, and he helped integrate Bandai's executive order for motorcycles into Victory by intentionally asking the mechanical design staff for motorcycle themed things to be added in.
>>23857500>the Federation:"We must mass produce the Zeta Gundam!">make a bunch of prototypes that are slightly simplified but still just as expensive>make a "Refined" version that in no way resembles the Zeta Gundam and doesn't even transform, and relies on a backpack that is discarded after converting to MS mode>finally succeed by using the Methuss as a base instead of the Zeta>never again try to design VMSaWR type mobile suits>the next time something like this appears is almost 60 years later
>>23857107>>23857178>>23857223>>23857508Point is that mint green MS colouring SUCKS
>>23857223Amuro piloted it, I trust his judgement over yours.
>>23857603He's a cartoon character he doesn't have judgment. The writers made him pilot something new to sell model kits.
>>23857591Truly, Anaheim's greatest bait-and-switch scam. They were already given contracts to manufacture and service the Feds' MP models but how many untold billions did they bilk from the Feds in the pursuit of the Zeta?The Feds could have just mass produced the Mark II's flying armor as a new subflight platform and accomplished all of the goals and come in under-budget and on-deadline but that would have meant acknowledging AE was behind the AEUG like it wasn't already an open secret lol
>>23857603reminder that your cartoon character preferred to have another version so that re-gz is quite literally a compromise he was forced to settle on
>>23857631why does it need vulcans on its head and shoulders?
>>23857591>that in no way resembles the Zeta GundamIt's legs bend backwards and power plants are supposedly in the legs like the zeta, maybe?
>>23857738Shoulder or chest mounted machine cannons are typically much stronger than head mounted Vulcan guns
>>23857738While Char secretly kept tabs on Londo Bell MS development through AE, spying is a two way business, someone figured out that Neo Zeon's next generation MS were made of paper mache and helium-3 balloons so they decided the ReGZID could benefit from some extra balloon-dispensing and balloon-popping equipment
>>23857107>not a gundamYAAWWNN
>>23857583I fucking love the Theta Plus--it's an exercise in compromises that end up making the end result seem to be on par with the original. The ZZ Gundam is a flying brick? No worries, let's solve that by modifying the backpack! Now it's just as fast as before, but now it's significantly more maneuverable. What's that? You miss the Hyper Beam Sabers? tell you what, we can't do that, but we'll integrate beam cannons into the new binders, and give it regular Zeta Plus sabers instead. No High Mega Cannon? No problem, we'll modify a Hyper Mega Cannon so it can be used as the nosecone in G-Fortress mode, and slap on a Zeta Plus C1's radome unit to fix the accuracy issue. Not enough pilots or core fighters? No problem, we'll make the A and B parts remote controllable, like Neo Zeon's Bawoo.All things considered, the Theta Plus was pretty much a biosensor short of being on par with the original ZZ Gundam or even the Enhanced ZZ... which makes it a shame that it got sidelined in favor of an uglier Re-GZ prototype whose only saving grace is that it transforms without discarding the backpack.
>>23857513>has tomino ever had any quoted opinions on mecha design specifically?He really liked Syd Mead's work at first, but later interviews have him really not liking them.Also, while its hearsay, Syd Mead's account of working on the Turn A concepts has lots of anecdotes about feedback from Tomino and what he wanted in a design.
>>23857624>Lets jump into the real world when it suits my argumentfacepalm
>>23857631>re-gz is quite literally a compromise he was forced to settle onAnd yet Amuro never says anything like that in CCA, so you are just creating fanfiction in a desperate need for people to believe its canon.
>>23858030REfined Gundam Zeta.It's a Gundam
>>23857591>VMSaWRIs Delta Plus the perfect realization of VMSaWR? Also one handsome fucker.
>>23857591Apparently the REZEL was also heavily influenced by the Zeta 2 which also used feedback from the methuss but had similar performance to the original, and elements of the vanilla Zeta are also on it
>>23858938It's a completed Delta Gundam but without the anti-beam coating. So, basically still a Zeta, complete with the primary flaw of being expensive. And in the CCA era, even the vaunted Zeta Gundam is not the war-winning machine it once was, it's just a high-spec grunt for more-competent-than-usual pilots.
>>23857591>>make a "Refined" version that in no way resembles the Zeta Gundam and doesn't even transform, and relies on a backpack that is discarded after converting to MS mode The backpack is not discarded after use. According to the latest databooks, the backpack has an auto pilot function similar to that seen in a Base Jabber. It can follow the pilot and even redock if necessary. The only issue is that this is never shown in the animation.
>>23859572The problem with databooks is that half the reason they exist is just to fill plot holes from the associated animated work. Like the Strike Gundam having an emergency blast door that saved Kira from the Aegis blowing up but which somehow still allowed the chair behind him to melt into an unrecognizable mess. Like, yeah, this one makes actual sense, but the one time we see Amuro detach the backpack it just smashes into the asteroid and floats away, and he flies back to the Ra Cailum in MS mode.
>>23858874>Amuro never says anything like thathe never says he loved the regz and he'll miss it either when he moves on to the nu, so fat lot of good claiming anything like that does you
>>23857107I see a Space Coffin, the Federation's Zudah.
>>23859583>blowing up but which somehow still allowed the chair behind him to melt into an unrecognizable mess. I thought that was just water splashing into the cockpit and soaking the cushion...
>>23859608soaking holes?
>>23857603It’s funny because he didn’t even want the Re-GZ, in the novels he couldn’t get a Zeta so this was the only option for himAlso, this is Amuro Ray we’re talking about. He could pilot a GM and make it look way more powerful than it actually is.
>>23859617Anything hot enough to melt through the seat like that would have melted the controls and surrounding metal. Strike Gundam was right next to the beach right? So its probably high tide. The water level rises and the cockpit gets submerged in water.
>>23859616Maybe the chair was made of cotton candy.
>>23859617>Also, this is Amuro Ray we’re talking about. He could pilot a GM and make it look way more powerful than it actually is.Funny you should say that (not that it's canon)
>>23857107>>23857223>>23857379>>23857591>>23857631The Re-gZ is actually a great design. Removing the backpack to reduce transformation complexity is a solid idea. The problem is they didn't take the idea far enough. They needed to make multiple backpacks for different mission specs.Imagine one backpack with tons of beam weapons.Another backpack loaded with missiles and more weapons.Another backpack with tons of extra boosters for highspeed interception. Maybe be twice as fast as a standard Re-gz backpackAnother backpack with an I-field generator.Another backpack with a long range cannon for sniping targets.Another backpack with a giant AWACS dish for long range reconnaissance and scouting. There are so many possibilities.
>>23860694that's exactly why the feds rejected it, they didn't wanna pay for all that shit, they'd rather strap missiles and beam cannons to cheaper MStrying to sell that to neo zeon might work but it's a sales disaster for the feds who might buy one prototype and decline payment for the next hundred, then they chuck the prototype onto a ship and let it gather dust until a kid falls into the cockpit
>>23860731But the Federation ended up just making a more expensive version of the Re-gz with Jegans riding Rezels into battle. And a single Rezel definitely costs way more than a Re-gz backpack. It makes no sense.
>>23860745a single rezel costs more than the regz backpack but less than a regz backpack plus regz, why do you think it has so many jegan parts? also because the backpack can't be detached in combat, it will never be a waste of money since the backpack always comes back to be reused and never need to send out recovery crews to locate and salvage backpacks. dropping gear and all is dramatic and cool looking in battle, but unless you're an ace, you'll probably get yelled at for losing another rifle let alone entire backpack because the ship is starting to run out of them and never had that much space to hold backpacks. at least the rezel technically doubles as a subflight platform so they could get rid of some of those (still need a few to ferry cargo and act as cheap personnel shuttles) but they never bothered to make the regz usable as a SFS.ejecting the backpack to change for another one is some seed tier crazy nonsense, it means needing to integrate extra AI and sensor and locking systems to successfully dock backpacks, even neo zeon never bothered developing the bawoo's split system further even though it technically worked for them and they could afford it with m'quve's resources, I guess. the Feds also had it working with ZZ and sentinel but again, declined to put it into mass production and only ever left it with a few prototypes
>>23860745>Jegans riding Rezels into battleI think that's more of a case of feds actual combatmen not being in charge of reading anaheim's proposed sales brochure lol>frontline people and captains making use of whatever to hand>anaheim: NOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO IT LIKE THAT YOU MUST BUY THIS EXTRA EXPENSIVE WAR MACHINE WE HAVE ON DISPLAY HERE AND HERE
>>23860757>ejecting the backpack to change for another one is some seed tier crazy nonsenseI keep thinking, as cool as Shinn's giant killing sequence of Impulse vs Freedom is, how much did it cost Minerva/ZAFT for that battle alone.>impulse shield, lost after bounce shot>chest flyer, kamikaze>leg flyer>force silhouette for kamikaze>2nd force silhouette for final attack>sword silhouette boomerang that wasn't recovered>whole suit damaged after the conclusion; head melted, arm broken etcIt's amazing that Meyrin was allowed to launch so much shit at light speed to make it happen.
>>23860767In the Impulse databooks, it was specifically said that the Impulse Gundam was canceled because too many pilots across Zaft battlefields were spamming spare parts in combat. Zaft Pilots were literally changing their piloting style to be more reckless because they knew extra spare parts could be sent in. The costs were ballooning far beyond what Zaft had budgeted for the program. >I don't need to dodge this attack. I'll let the enemy take my leg in exchange for stabbing his cockpit. Our ship can just send me spare parts right away. The spare parts aren't cheap either. These are Gundam quality spare parts. Every time a new Impulse leg sent out? That's the cost of a Strike Gundam from Season 1. Zaft was going broke. Lmao. It's also partly why Destiny Impulse was abandoned, and they switched to just using a standard body frame without the core block system. The costs were enormous and they didn't want Destiny Gundam to make things worse. Imagine them demanding spare Destiny packs to be sent out constantly.
>>23860760AEUG were the first to test the Methuss and occasionally the Methuss would let another suit hang on top for a ride, so Anaheim knew what they were doing, they purposefully built hand grips into the new transforming grunts so the Jegans riding on top don't accidentally grab or mangle something important>>23860767IIRC Durandal ordered them specifically on that mission so taking down either the Freedom or the Archangel would have been top priority, so no need to hold back since even if they failed, they would have had time to go back and resupply at some base until they could locate the Archangel again and launch another attackIn contrast in UC especially if you're not a hero ship on some special mission, you're probably given more generic orders like "go patrol" or something. E.g., the closest equivalent in real life would be a submarine or navy aircraft carrier deployment which are like what 6 months long and usually scheduled on a specific timetable to go to certain places, and the entire ship can't just go back or forward to a port to resupply ahead of schedule unless it took major damage, imagine being the captain and having to explain that your fuckhead pilots already used up 70% of the weapons onboard so you have to resupply now because you can't be sure you'll be ready to take on another fight, you'd be a fucking laughingstock unless your ship achieved battle results and either got seriously damaged or took down a ton of enemies
MilEcon and logistics considerations? In MY Gundam? What is this, BattleTech?
