https://www.deviantart.com/siansaar/art/Changeling-Concept-The-Nekropolis-Hive-387356476

Good night

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I had a dream once.

The Moomins are an interesting inspiration since it's 1:1 to what made S1 great.

So what's the plans for this pitch bible? Is it meant to be something like a G4 remake or is it meant to be a wholly original generation that just to happens to take a lot of inspiration from G4?

>>42742435
why?

Bump

>>42744571
"Original" generation like how G4 took concepts from G1 and characters from G1 and G3, but completely remodeled their personalities and locations based off ancient folklore and legends with Canterlot and Cloudsdale.

Perhaps separately G4 remake with expanded canon like putting the Mane6 in a completely different location and introducing new characters in that new location.
G4 remake inspired from Lauren's original ideas which G5 tried to do. G4 remake since I think some episode premises are good and could be remade properly.

>>42744571
>pitch bible
One possibility is to use the show bible as a starting off point. Maybe discuss the emphasis that the creators put in their own document and shat they were trying to achieve with the show which is spelled out. Then maybe talk about what worked and what people really like about it. Then get into what you might change in terms of opening up the premise to a broader range of stories.

The bible talks about how the stories shouldn't be great epic adventures. Maybe argue why these stories might be good within the context of the world that you are using with the characters that have been created. Maybe open up about the range of possibilities for exploring more mature themes and alternative versions of what has already been done that may be of equal or greater value than what has already been attempted.
Maybe discuss the range of possibilities for the different directions that writers might explore while offering suggestion on how to root the stories and maintain those aspects of the series that people enjoy most about the characters and their world.
Maybe offer advice on what not to rely upon or incorporate when approaching creative writing (ie, agendas, AI, etc.) and how these might diminish creativity.

Since we are at the beginning of this project (which hopefully won't just be a one off thread) I think we should begin with asking what the world will be like and what elements should be taken from other gens.

I will say that I need to check on the other inspirations listed but at least when it comes to the unicorns I did read some about the mythology behind them. Maybe we could approach unicorns from the "fierce and untamable" angle of their older depictions and have them hold a more "tribal" lifestyle in the wilderness, possibly depicting them as mysterious and elusive ponies (at least during the beginning) who keep to themselves and only visit other settlements for trading purposes and whatnot. Though this idea relies on making a lot of assumptions regarding this hypothetican gen's world. What do you anons think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Mt85VmBD0

Moominvalley is very similar with MLP's G1 and G4 in how there's a lot of crazy shit outside of the ponies' comfy area with insanely powerful characters like The Hobgoblin similar to Nightmare Moon/Discord. The Imp, Groke, etc.

Hilda goes a little too much into the adventure aspect and only a few episodes are comfy slice of life. It basically destroys its own premise. Only the first, 2nd and last episodes usually have the atmosphere.

Some episodes of Moominvalley are literally 2 different plots spread into 22 minutes one after another rather than them running simulatenously they instead end the first plot and start the 2nd one as if they were 10 minute episodes without wasting time.... and other times there's 44 minute 2parter SoL episode to very slowly develop a one-shot character or an event, similar to Adventures of TinTin where all episodes of TinTin are 44 minutes.

Moominvalley, Hilda, MLP G4 all fail at the insane atmosphere you could possibly achieve if you got the writing and context better. Only video games and real life seem to have achieved the atmosphere correctly because you can't tell how much atmosphere a person can withstand before he gets bored and wants to move on with the "plot" that's why you need to somehow magically combine atmosphere and something to keep the viewer interested. Courage the Cowardly Dog also had great atmosphere, but it's only 10 minute episodes. Most of the atmosphere is indeed given by the soundtrack rather than the visuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftt4YQnUrNg

What did G4 did right?
It was one those 2010s shows that promised lore-heavy world-ending adventure, but it turned out to be a slice of life for its own good. You can do both, but you need to separate the shows.

The main characters have the knowledge, observational skills and self awareness of Snufkin each with different personalities rather than the more traditional all 5 characters are different mains and secondaries and deuteragonists all together with different levels of knowledge and self awareness ranging from dumb to smart. G5 MLP is like that, G4 MLP is not like that. That's what makes it unique.

G4 MLP gives each character individual character-defining easy to remember scenes within the same episode as opposed to dedicating 20-40 minutes to them. Such as Rainbow Dash is remembered fondly in S1 for her flying sequences and magical abilities despite having the least amount of screentime in S1.

Renzetti has that wholesome attitude style of writing while having this innocent can-do optimistic attitude typical of a children's show.
Faust has a more tomboyish "fuck off" attitude that can either combine well or contradict the wholesomeness.
G4 mains are assholes compared to G5 mains, like compare Sunny to the rest.

>>42746847
Children's shows sitcoms, slice of life are very focused on the characters just interacting together in 1 room almost like talking heads and at best going on a field trip yet still talking about themselves rather than the story.
It's very hard to focus both on the characters and the story without one undermining the other, you need A LOT of time/episodes spread out. A normal person takes 1 hour to socialize with each other, often times 8 hours. It's very hard to pull off socializing and character representation within 13 episodes, that's why most people tell you to watch more than 1 episode of Moomin and MLP since you can't get the full picture from all perspectives, there's a bunch of characters that don't feature at the start of the season.

I remember watching Galatik Football and being more interested in the story going on in the background during the football match rather than the football tournament itself ... also it takes a whole 6 episodes just to get to their 1 true tournament match and another 7 episodes to reach the mid-level boss that even the writers commented on that it felt like a finale episode which they had to skip the football match into tiny fragments to focus on the more interesting story of infiltrating and rescuing a character being blackmailed and kidnapped by the corporations.
Storm Hawks also had a great world, but too childish and they never revisit ideas, concepts, locations outside of a max 2nd episode, similar to how MLP does with its "recurring" characters.

That balance is a main issue. You can either attempt it to miraculously combine both heavy lore story and character defining SoL or simply separate them into their own shows.

For example S1 E2 while it's a much more adventurous version of E1 and far better than S2's premiere ... you're clearly noticing the lack of story, everfree forest lore, no Zecora, no pauses around a bonfire, etc. etc. you're basically autowalking and railroaded, there's no exploration, only pitstops for the challenges.

You can say that they combined the adventure aspect with the character defining moments as best as they could, but it's no Kulipari and Redwall structure wise. There's no in-depth exploration of Nightmare Moon's backstory or Celestia and Twilight doesn't do anything beyond cringe at the word friend or do anything more interesting like doubt herself or try to stop the mane5 from following her ... similar to Moomin's simplistic storytelling, but then you say "that's it?" yep that's it.

Even if say you were really good at story and a different kind of character development it can easily detract from your main idea of a low-stakes adventure. Since character "development" requires A LOT of episodes, change and exposition to see how the character evolved.
The question is always how to combine them properly without undermining the other.

>>42746923
Wakfu did a very weird structure where they ordered the story and episodes with 13 episodes of SoL with some adventure in it ending in a soccer match with another 13 episodes all high-stakes adventure and the main plot.

>>42746288
An easy starting point would probably be a general time/society level and how rigid it has to be stuck to. G4 wasn't afraid to have some tech in its ostensibly late-medieval fantasy land (even during Faust's lead era there were still lightbulbs, tvs, and everything related to Vinyl Scratch), though none of it was really any more advanced than what would be around in out 80s. Later seasons really started pushing it and then of course there's g5 just having smartphones and probably other stuff too.

>>42746929
Actually, even medieval is probably the wrong word for it. High fantasy is the more appropriate term

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus
>According to early myths, everywhere the winged horse struck his hoof to the earth, an inspiring water spring burst forth. One of these springs was upon the Muses' Mount Helicon, the Hippocrene ("horse spring").[4] Antoninus Liberalis suggested,[5] that it was opened at the behest of Poseidon to prevent the mountain from swelling with rapture at the song of the Muses. Another spring associated with Pegasus was at Troezen.[6] Hesiod relates how Pegasus was peacefully drinking from a spring when the hero Bellerophon captured him.

And Albert Bierstadt art just like Moominvalley and Equestria which make you feel small and insginifcant in a giant environment that goes up to the skies and challenges you to climb it or to stay in your peaceful land far away from dangers as the hunter said in the intro to the The Last Unicorn.

You have to introduce contrast similar to how Moominvalley and G4 MLP did with Ponyville.
If you can just cast magic all willy nilly with no sense beyond a flawed mechanic and if you can just traverse between Canterlot, Cloudsdale, Everfree immediately then it's no longer special.

Some of Renzetti's cartoons , just like Moominvalley, just like MLP have that "All-powerful gigantic sorceror is humbled and impressed by lowly mortals by their sheer indomitable spirit and comfy feels." just like the hobgoblin episode. That's the kind of idea you have to get behind if you want that chidlike wonder and wholesomeness that makes Haggard cry tears. Haggard and The Hobgoblin are ever-so-slightly similar with the Hobgoblin obviously being more neutral-benevolent cause he doesn't have a bone to pick with the moomins like Haggard has with the unicorns.

And of course you have to give meaning to it. In The Last Unicorn it's never mentioned again nor does it ever come as a plot point that Amalthea can keep the winter away and keep it spring.
Neither does it do a very good job at making you understand why unicorns are such a rare commodity and their importance. They're just like any other mac guffin and their unique characteristics never come into attention.
Nobody really understood why the unicorn gave a shit about the harpy since it wasn't a unicorn like her, most just thought the harpy mind controlled her into it.
Similar to Kids Next Door's constant "Being an adult is the worst thing possible" , it does it from the 1st episode putting into perspective the gravity and a few more times, but never fully realized beyond the characters' egregious "I'd rather choose death than become an adult", similar to many other anti-human messages that come across as conspiracy theory and mental illness schizophrenia.
The Last Unicorn does a lot of things wrong story and execution wise with contradicting its own pacing and atmosphere such as slowing down too much and making the unicorn human.

>>42747098

In Tinkerbell's movie and many cartoons I really do not care that much about their version of Winter Wrap Up since there's no contrast and the "fairies bring spring" has been done a dozen times before.
The way winter wrap up did it, it was set in ponyville to be more special so they don't use magic for everything, it already said that ponyville is "special" compared to Canterlot, while ironically not showing how Canterlot does it.

The way the pegasus city building and cloud control was done was very intuitive in a Lego-brick way rather than a Superman "I can't wait to see what new power Twilight & Rainbow Dash get"
That minimalism is what helps with the contrast and keeps things grounded even in a high fantasy world like Moominvalley and MLP.

Ponyville is a safe haven but it's scrappy like Moominvalley, while being partially surrounded by the everfree forest that has city-leveling threats such as the ursa major that never gets used.
Neither does Moominvalley beyond the comet, a freak ice storm and other environmental stuff and only semi-powerful beings like The Groke and witch.
There's even a few episodes dedicated to Moominvalley being boring and Moomin's father having special backstory episode and some other soft lightweight adventure episodes.
Suddenly every fantastical element is cared for and put into attention due to sheer contrast.
Going from Ponyville to Cloudsdale is a contrast that makes Cloudsdale look much more mystical as opposed to having 9 episodes dedicated to it.
Of course you can also separate it like I said. Having the 2nd season happen in Canterlot and the 3rd one happen in Cloudsdale similar to how Avatar had 6-9 episodes happen in Ba Sing Se and another idea to take from that is ... Ba Sing Se had an episode where it's a compilation episode of every character just living their lives , that's refreshing because you stop overly focusing on that 1 narrative plot where the characters do nothing but talk about that 1 plot forever and nothing else.
That freedom and exploration is what you need to focus on or else the story will strangle your characters alive and become tools for the plot.

>>42742435
Oh yeah I remember that episode concept where Trixie made all unicorns look bad and Twilight had to wear a cloak similar to Rarity.

>>42742435
That's an interesting 2nd link with the other pony species.
bump for interest.

>>42746288
>and what elements should be taken from other gens.
Anyone in agreement to make ponies born from mirrors and double rainbows like G2 and G3.5 Baby Cuties did?

>>42746929
Personally I was thinking that a good general time would be at around the early industrial revolution but with most components being replaced with magic. Simple things like how a train engine works might be completely monotonous for the ponies but alien for us in how the operate as they use a completely different source of power, though for that to work we would need to get creative on the differences between pony trains and real life trains.

Though if we want a more cozy, albeit more isolate setting it could be really nice if there are is a LOT of wilderness between settlements and said wilderness acting kind of like the Everfree forest when it comes to potential threats and/or potential for hosting exotic and interesting lifeforms. A good example of what may come from this setting is the Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack where the main town the series takes place in is just a port in the middle of the sea but the constant influx of people coming from all sorts of places you get the idea of a way larger world out there just out of sight and it could help build that sense of wonder in case the pony cast of this fanmade gen ever travels around. Of course this hypothetical gen would be more cozy than Flapjack.

Hey I want an entire season where I deconstruct archetypes and create new ones through the power of fusion!
I basically want Magical Mystery Cure's personality swap episode but for an entire season so it focuses on both the plot and how the character swaps deal with the plot and interactions at hand. I want to see Rarity with Pinkie Pie's personality and vice versa.
I want to see a new element like Sunny and I want to see Twidash resulting in Zipp Storm. Like the autism that is Flawless but 6 times. Instead of the evil Mane6 cliche it's the twisted fusion/personality swap cliche you normally see for 1 episode and it isn't even a fusion. I also like switches like Fluttershy but actually done well, like Twilight that's often the nice nerdy buttmonkey she turns into a suave badass sexy evil sparkle that gives no more shit to appease anyone, especially Celestia.

Think you can dedicate me an entire 26 episodes for this plot line? as opposed to the cutiemap and rainbow keys where it was barely 6 episodes and they weren't even special in any way.

>>42748822
I'm always down for some good magitek

>>42747142
It's the contrast AND how useful the abilities are. I loved the green lantern in DC SHG cause along with the glowy stuff she also had to deal with other villain lanterns, she basically could be her own cartoon show. If the characters are moralistic cunts like Twilight which only use their powers for combat shit and random out of their ass deus ex machina or plot device like "earth ponies can now walk on clouds with unicorn magic or Rarity gets butterfly wings" all you care about is what it does and under which context and you don't care about the requirements because often times the TV Show doesn't give a shit about the requirements either. That's why useful macguffins like the talismans in Jackie Chan and shen gon wu from Xiaolin Showdown are enjoyable and useful.
But tiny cute pegasi building stuff out of clouds, walking on clouds, controlling the weather just gets the creative juices going just like Lego & Trains because they are predictable, follow a guideline, you have a semblance of how it works unlike MAGIC I AIN'T GUTTA EXPLAIN SHIAT APPLEJACKS.

DC SHG had that problem where the story overtook the characters and you often cared more about the powers than JUST the personalities, the personalities were a very nice bonus unlike most stoic DC heroes which suck ass compared to Marvel heroes, but most people come there for the super powers and fancy suits.
Still I do remember one scene where Poison Ivy is trying to enjoy a peaceful time and then retard Harley Quinn comes in breaking everything with her hammer. Reminded me of why I enjoyed S1 and why DC SHG cannot be S1 because the action gets in the way despite me ironically enjoying the dream sequences, song sequences and flying sequences in S1 the most.

bump

>>42746847
>>42746923
While those are useful considerations regarding the actual making of a show (let alone a pitch bible) we should also determine the scope of what this would entail. Personally I believe this pitch bible should give people the basics of not only the world but the characters that would be in it alongside some ideas for potential fan animations/fanfics. I do agree that ther should be a direction the pitch bible should steer people towards but it will ultimately depend on what others decide to do with the basis that would be presented.

I'll post some summary retakes on S2+ episodes, tomorrow. Keep the thread bumped.

>>42743094
There's also a deer species concept on Deviantart there somewhere.

Do we also consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them%27s_Fightin%27_Herds 's world design? and also Filly Funtasia's?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcHjlibXhUI

>>42751699
Don't know much about TFGH but isn't Filly Funtasia pretty uninteresting in general?

>>42752052
Filly Funtasia has a toy heavy lore involving each pony sub-species getting their own realm/island.
Each main5 represents an island, including some secondary characters.
You have elves, angels, witches, fairies, unicorns and then there's sub-factions like romance ponies which Rose is part of. And tiny factions like seaponies.

The school is set in a middleground island where all the species converge to learn magic through their mirrors which act as both wands and phones and inventory.
However they require crystals in order to channel spells and each crystal has its own power.

Crystals are a big part of the toys too because they're actual tiny https://www.swarovski.com/ crystals, each pony comes with a crown and each crown has these tiny real gems in them, of course they're tiny sized as hell.
Miss Sparkle, the principal of the school comes with 5 colored crystals.

Rose's ancestor got pissed and depressed she got rejected by a fucking fairy since her ancestor is all about love so she vented and created a dark crystal.
An evil Ent by the name Wranglum steals it and wreaks havoc, gets defeated and entombed in a crystal dungeon where his only means of communication is through a mirror and an incompetent bat familiar he gave the ability of speech to.

>>42752253
Don't forget the normalfag horses with no elf ears, no horns, no nothing. They're engineers just like G5 earth ponies. They even have typical horse markings with patches and shit.

The G4 designs!! they were based off Disney's deer all along!! Celestia is based off adult deer. Normal ponies are based off Bambi's skull shape.

So here's a question. What about a (singular) human? The whole series started out with a human as a staple character and eventually had multiple. You think having one again could work? Maybe as a sort of old sage/history keeper or Snufkin style ramblin' man that occasionally shows up to show the ponies cool stuff they found beyond their maps?

>>42742435
TRVTH NUKE
This whole bible is fucking useless unless it's implemented into something. You better pray it will happen someday or else you just wasted a lot of time into nothing

>>42753178
>you just wasted a lot of time into nothing
Something that's never happened to me before, not a once

>>42753178
Personally I see this more as a worldbuilding project more than anything

>>42753472
Worldbuilding for nothing is like a blueprint for something that isn't going to be built. Yes, it's cool and interesting and you feel like you're making progress towards something great, but is there a point in making something that will be lying on your hard drive forever? Worldbuilding alone is like spices for no dish. You need the dish for it to really work

>>42753767
/tg/ considers blueprints as getting_shit_done.
It will be good exercise for this generation that has no ideas and can't even write correctly.
Blueprints are important, jews are burning the blueprints as we speak so nobody has the knowledge to recreate old technology and practices. Right now people from 2025 can't write anything like the people from the 90s and 2000s.
If an executive producer and studio production company ever comes and says "Okay we have the money, but no idea and no guidelines" then he'll need a quality pitch bible. Some movies were so incompetent they hired 8 different people to write 8 different scripts and the movie still turned out shit because they refuse to hire someone capable and there were no existing stories to copy from.

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>What if Princess Luna had a castle and an entire goddamn town inside Canterlot mountain?

Is this another vogelfag schizo project

>>42753858
I just think it's fun. Besides, other anons could potentially write stories set within the pitch bible's world

>>42753924
Would Celly and Luna be back in this pitch bible? I think it would be fun if they came back as regular ponies, though they could still be rulers even if they weren't alicorns