what is music?
>>127735230theyre just racist crackas listening to shitty experimental music and prog rockignore them
rap: cant sing, cant play an instrument its not musicsimple as
hip-hop instrumentals are musicreciting poetry over instrumentals isn't music
>>127735316>music is what i like, and music isnt what i dont likeSlint is literally just poetry over music, and if anyone here criticized it they would be crucified
>>127735259>>127735316You didn't answer my question...
>>127735230music is an art form. the purpose of art is to channel transcendent beauty. rap is not beautiful in any way shape or form, so it's not art. simple as.
>>127735537>channel transcendent beautythe purpose of art is to have some message, whether intentional or not, and to make someone feel a certain way, art doesnt need to be beautiful, art can be ugly, scary, confusing, erotic, and its still art as long as it makes you feel some way
>>127735237This, them cracKKKers can't comprehend the mentality of a genetically superior Black man like JPEGMAFIA
>>127735537And what is beauty?
>>127735559>jpegmafiathat nigga lowkey white like mj fr
>>127735259>targeted rap and accidentally decimated all of edmoof
>>127735504yes he did. music is made by musicians. rappers are not musicians. simple as.
>>127735566Bach and Coltrane
>>127735631deserved
>>127735631collateral damage isnt always a bad thing
>>127735708>>127735711fuck you edm is great, i love trance
>>127735230Music is a mode of expression whereby you can pass a feeling through a certain arrangement of notes, harmonies, rhythms.
>>127735230>>127735851Pretty close, but I have a better definition:>the deliberate organization of sounds, stops and silencesThat's it.
>>127735851>>127735864Okay, so are you saying that no rap song fulfills this definition?
>>127735905In its core, rap is predicated on beats and spoken rhyme, so I would say no. Yes, I know that they also include some samples of instruments or melodies from the past, reprocessed to sound quirky, but they don't write melodies. And melody is the heart of music.Patterns of shouting, drum beating, snapping fingers, reading a text can't on their own be music. They need a meaningful chaining of notes in a melodic line to properly express a feeling.I keep insisting that music must pass a feeling, otherwise it's just autistic hammering of instruments, like gamelan, which is more of a ritual.
>>127735230Music is white. Everything black, brown, hispanic, arab or their various diaspora doesn't count. Japan gets honorable mention for being the civilized Asians, China and its diaspora do not. Its about being human or subhuman, not about splitting hairs over melody and percussion.
>>127735631synthesizers are instrumentshttps://youtu.be/6iKd7wl6aec?si=FQ4QgU2Leaqt-D2I?t=250
Look, all I'm saying is rhythm only music is old and boring now.
>>127736128rap is edm with vocals
>>127735230Classical is the only form of music that matters.Everything else is zoomer cope.
the only type of "music" that isnt music is video game or classical garbage
>>127735230>theyre just racist crackas listening to shitty experimental music and prog rock>ignore them>>127735237>This, them cracKKKers can't comprehend the mentality of a genetically superior Black man like JPEGMAFIA
>>127735230Don't worry about it, Tyrone>>127735237Fuck you >>127735559Hope one of your own kind brutally murders you>>127736348Classical fucking sucks but it is music
>>127736348
>>127736426>Classical fucking sucks but it is musicyt boi aint never listened to franz schubert
>>127736461Not gonna either. It's music but I don't give a single fuck about any of it.
>>127736485silly little yt boy its just 4 minutes long and your mind will be blown.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIIS-UgixGE
>>127735230nah its musici just dont fucking give a shit about it and think its overplayed overhyped trash thats overstayed its welcome by like at least 2 decades by now.the fucking uncs were doing more interesting shit like 30yrs ago. now its just niggers making mouth noises with weird effects/autotune on em and a shit beat thats hardly even therejust suxxxthis is the one i ever listened to with any regularity, and i feel like its all i rly fuckin need from the entire genrehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APHEeAL6I5I
>>127735230rap rock is rap if it were real music>>127736109lol weeb
>>127736032Are you talking about rap as the vocal technique of the "rap music/hip-hop" genre? Because sure, rhythmic patterns can't be music by your definition, but could, say, singing, be? Singing has melody and generally the implication of rhythm, but not necessarily harmony. So it wouldn't make sense to talk about the technique in itself only, but the music genre.The roots of rap music, according to wikipedia, are "African griot tradition,[7] certain vocal styles of blues[8] and jazz,[9] (...)" (which all have melodies as defining characteristics). So would you still reduce the core of the genre to "beats and spoken rhyme"?>but they don't write melodiesWho exactly are you referring to as "they"? Are you saying that no rapper (hip-hopper would be a better term) has ever written a melody for a track? Or that the vast majority of them haven't? Because to me it's the opposite: I can't think of a hip-hop song without a melody, as simple as it may be. Do you have an example of a hip-hop song without any melody?>They need (...) to properly express a feeling.Isn't that too subjective? How could you tell if it expressed a feeling or not?
>>127736495Fuck no.
>>127736926wtf? fuck you
>>127736795>Who exactly are you referring to as "they"?he means blacks, thats what all white people mean when they say "they"dont try arguing with these racists, they know why theyre against rap and its got nothing to do with the music itself
>>127736795>The roots of rap music, according to wikipedia, are "African griot tradition,[7] certain vocal styles of blues[8] and jazz,[9] (...)" (which all have melodies as defining characteristics). So would you still reduce the core of the genre to "beats and spoken rhyme"?The roots of rap being in genres that have melodies doesn't make it have melodies itself. I was describing rap as a genre not being melodic because in most cases they don't have singers. They rap, as the name says, so they don't sing.>Are you saying that no rapper (hip-hopper would be a better term) has ever written a melody for a track? Or that the vast majority of them haven't? Because to me it's the opposite: I can't think of a hip-hop song without a melody, as simple as it may be. Do you have an example of a hip-hop song without any melody?If they don't sing, but rap, where could the melody be? Is it in the instruments? But they don't play instruments either. So where's the melody? In the samples used to build some kind of melodic background, right? But those are not their music, they're cultural quotations, collages, stuff taken from others' creations, so that the track doesn't sound too bland or vacuous>Isn't that too subjective? How could you tell if it expressed a feeling or not?If you listen to an Eminem track, what kind of feeling does it express? Most of the time he's angrily spitting rhymes, whining about his life, occasionally taking the piss at some other celebrities. What he did was mostly entertainment. I've never heard him sing an actual song or melody. Same for Jay-Z, I don't think he can sing. Now, of course, there are non-musical manifestations that can trigger feelings too. Someone can tell you something and get you pissed off or happy. That doesn't make it music either. But if someone sings and this lifts your mood up, that's likely to be music.
>>127737477>If they don't sing, but rap, where could the melody be? Is it in the instruments? But they don't play instruments either. So where's the melody? In the samples used to build some kind of melodic background, right? But those are not their music, they're cultural quotations, collages, stuff taken from others' creations, so that the track doesn't sound too bland or vacuousso covers are not music? a classical pianist playing someone elses piece is not music?>If you listen to an Eminem track, what kind of feeling does it express? Most of the time he's angrily spitting rhymesanger is not a feeling?> I've never heard him sing an actual song or melodyeminem sings in a lot of his songs actually, or he has someone else sing on them.
>>127735237I like Chuck Berry, Marvin Gaye, The Supremes and The Four Tops. I like The Jacksons. I like Darius Rucker. I like funk. I like real R&B, not what you turned it into after the CIA introduced crack to your neighborhood. Despite what you think, this is literally a "content of your character" thing.
>>127737678classism is not any better than racism.
>>127737706I am lower class though. Just because you are lower class doesn't mean you need to act like an animal.
>>127735259Rap is music but rappers aren't musicians.
>>127735230I've never enjoyed rap one in my life, I've tried but it really has no soulI will say that at least 90s rap/hip-hop had some sort of artistry. Now it has nothing
>>127737956*Once
>>127736942>copeI hate rap but love Stevie Wonder, moth other Motown, Hendrix, etc etc. (c)rap is not music, it's beats + moronic poetry (about dicks, crime, misogyny) + some samples of actual music.
>>127735230haha OP I love froggo XD
>>127735230>what is music?the variation of tones
>>127737618Samples in rap are not covers. A cover requires someone to actually be able to perform the original song, using voice and instruments. They just use the recording and modify the pitch, the speed, etc.>anger is not a feeling?Yes but expressing anger by saying rhymes in a monotonous voice is not music.>eminem sings in a lot of his songs actually, or he has someone else sing on them.Such as?
>>127735237nah if you like both experimental and prog unironically your iq is enough to understand that rap is musicthose retards probably listen to nsbm of the lowest form and try to appreciate classical western music but only because the austrian painter said so
>>127736932Not listening to that shit, asshole. I don't care. Fuck you too.
>>127741575>Samples in rap are not covers. A cover requires someone to actually be able to perform the original song, using voice and instruments. They just use the recording and modify the pitch, the speed, etc.so if something is played off a recording it's not music? you think only live music counts as music?>Yes but expressing anger by saying rhymes in a monotonous voice is not music.moving the goalposts>Such as?cleaning out my closet, stan, beautiful, mockingbird, etc.
>>127736942>thats what all white people mean when they say "they">dont try arguing with these racistsmost ironic post of the month award
>>127735230The only people who say rap isn't music are people who just listened to 5 of the most generic shitty songs on the radio and declared it to be shit before listening to fucking stadium country.
>>127735230Music made with instruments, not computer beeps
>>127737477>I was describing rap as a genre not being melodic because in most cases they don't have singers. They rap, as the name says, so they don't sing.Vocals are not the only part of rap music. If it was, sure, it wouldn't be music. As I said, singing wouldn't as well, for lack of implied harmony. Rap music has instrumentals too.>If they don't sing, but rap, where could the melody be? Is it in the instruments?Yes.>But they don't play instruments either.That's simply not true. I recognize that sampling exists (and the computers, for example, maybe wouldn't be considered instruments for you). But hip-hop artists use instruments like synthesizers and keyboards.>If you listen to an Eminem track, what kind of feeling does it express? (...) What he did was mostly entertainment. I've never heard him sing an actual song or melody. (...)It's relative to the subject in question listening to it. And you may be trying to make the syllogism that (1) melody expresses feeling, (2) rap music has no melody, thus (3) rap music expresses no feelings, but (2) is simply not true as I pointed out earlier.
>>127735259Melody is a form of singing
>>127735316That's all music What do you think songs made from lymerricks
>>127741521So the sound of a car is music? There's is variation of tones in it.
Bump
>>127746756It's the only form. Singing presupposes pitch variation.
>>127749139consider micropitches and microvariation.
>>127746826yes, in fact, a car sound can be edited and sampled into something sounding better. even just a raw car sound can be sold on a music disc.
>>127749222If you widen the definition of "melody" enough, practically any sound can be a melody. Is that what you're in favor of?
>>127749253i don't know but i'm not in favor of calling rap "not music" for an arbitrary reason.
>>127749240Is there any sound that isn't music in practice, then? Because it's hard to create a sound with absolutely no pitch variation (considering variation not audible to the human ear).
>>127749284i would in fact argue no, and also there's a continuum, not a binary yes or no. this post could be made into music, probably. there's also some deeper concepts at play.
the reason that people say rap is not music is because they are racist, or want to appeal to racists, or live in a racist echo chamber. there is no intellectualization to be done with that statement.
>>127746733>hip-hop artists use instruments like synthesizers and keyboards.What do you see when you go to a rap concert? I don't see them playing synths, they're just rapping, making gestures with hands and strutting around trying to look gangsta. That's what it's all about. It's about smugness and hood posturing, not music.>(2) rap music has no melody, thus (3) rap music expresses no feelings, but (2) is simply not true as I pointed out earlier.You didn't write anything about melody. And they don't write melodies. How many rap melodies can you hum or sing? Can you name 10 from the same year?
>>127749355i have not been to any rap concerts, but decent producers are often able to play instruments or drum machine pads.
>>127749324>i would in fact argue noOkay, but is there anyone else that uses this definition that "sound=music"? Because it seems too wide: basically there would be music playing since forever (when humans didn't even exist yet).>and also there's a continuum, not a binary yes or noYou mean, a continuum of pitch variation or of what is music and what isn't?
>>127749395you see people talk about "the music of the spheres".the latter.
>>127735230anything with instruments.blues, jazz, rock, classical, metal, operasampling beats you didnt make and talking while reading rhyme dictionary is not making music
i guess a possible definition of music is sound that you like to listen to. what is music to one person isn't music to another person. i am not you. racism is common, and people who talk about rap is not music usually say that for reasons related to racism.
>>127749498nah, arts and crafts require some skill development and mastery. Rap is by in large not mastered you are just memorizing ryhme dictionary words but that is mostly for live "rap battle" shows. I guess u can master that, you dont need to learn to sing in tune tho or anything just memorize some fucking words and string them together with sentences. Its simple. notepad + ryhme dictionary and start practicing making rap "lyrics" but whats the fucking point, whats the point of the human voice if you are never going to learn to master your god damn vocal chords.I know that some negros sing and thats great thats an artistic aspiration but many also dont and they consider themselves "artists" "craftmen" of music lmao pathetic. Hell no they aint artisans of music.
>>127749355Not from the same year right now, but here are some examples of no-sample hip hop compositions: https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphop101/comments/idmae4/what_are_some_of_the_best_hiphop_songs_of_all/
there is a lot of hip hop that has no vocals and i listen to that a lot as well.
>>127735259How are MPCs not instruments?
>>127735566>>127735700https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBlVc7EThk
>>127749632it takes skill and creativity to write rap lyrics. the words have to rhyme and fit the rhythm while having an interesting flow and incorporating wordplay or telling a story. saying that it's "memorization" is fucking retarded.
>>127749702>there is a lot of hip hop that has no vocals so repeated sampling this what is precisely not making music.
>>127749770it doesnt take much and you know it most rap songs are colossally retarded and dumbly put together and dont say anything meaningful. Literal manchild concerns and thoughts put into words said "rhythmically", rap is the "poetry" of a manchildThis also tells a story (about late 30s male adulthood) but at least the artists singing there had to learn to sing in tune.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZUVZ2F_Dc&ab_channel=AmericanFootball
>>127749792not only that, they probably came up with an original tune, which is more difficult.
after listening to it for one minute, it's not a bad tune judged by itself, by not good either. shrug
>>127749792american football isn't music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npm5vxharc4
>>127749817actually it isn't difficult at all to play 2 different chords and sing over it. not that it means the song is bad, just that the idea of judging music based on "skillz" is fucking stupid and the people who do it usually have zero experience actually making music and don't know which aspects of it are actually difficult.
>>127735316>Blow my dick like a cello>300 like the romans>Think you the shit? You are not even the fartABSOLUTE POETRY
>>127750002Paganism is based, whiter than jewish christcuckery and has always been musical culturehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald
>>127735230https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaai0AII3E
If you think that rapping is just a monotonous voice with no musical qualities, you are completely tonedeafhttps://youtu.be/PTimjNEqD4c?si=3wajtOHFGewrPoxxhttps://youtu.be/-jRKsiAOAA8?si=dHD7QCqbxI1Gt8QIhttps://youtu.be/xS3vpBCiL2c?si=6dOjZyMFZSrPNebLThere you go hummable melody. Next time just start out by saying you don't like rap or you hate niggers.
>>127750239>lil peep
>>127735230Music is a sound aesthetics. The art of music is creating structures with sound. The smallest sound for musical use is a tone and the smallest structure is a melody (NOT RHYTHM!!!! as some black gorilla nobrain nigger monkey would think). Melody can be sang by one person (one voice) and it contains harmony in itself. Adding more notes to enrich harmony and melody can create more sophisticated structure. Rhythm is a biproduct of music. The cadence of notes itself creates it. The more focused on rhythm music is, the more barbaric it gets. If you find yourself at the point of putting drum hits to accent the rhythm aspect of your sound structure please kill yourself before publishing your creation. Oh, and rap. I almost forgot. Rap is a dog barking type of vocal expression which is miles lower on a scale of cultivated expression than regular singing, talking or opera singing. Rap is even more annoying than slam poetry type of expression and that's very retarded on its own.
>>127746756>Melody is a form of singing
>>127735230>what is musiceverything that is not rap
>>127746826That depends if you're an /o/fag or not.
>>127735237Based, all the timmys in this thread are seething because their women listen and shake their ass to rap.
>>127735237>Based, all the timmys in this thread are seething because their women listen and shake their ass to rap.
>>127751861pic related (you)
>No uI sleep
>>127750757Breakcore is music then ?
>>127752039Fuck off tripnigger
>>127752064especially breakcore
>>127735230Hip hop is Dj'ing and talking. Not music. https://youtu.be/VnIbSeIDSUM
>>127745314This is a form of strawman
>>127749340White people rap as well you know
>>127735230Music is a series of pre-arranged noises made to entertain.
>>127735230people who say this are just objectively wrong. you can say it's bad music but to say it isn't music is like saying a circle isn't round. theyre just buttmad racists or boomers
>>127754430that's being generous. I prefer to call it a "sperg out"
>>127755505>pre-arrangedwhat about improvisational music
>>127749733The given "definition" ("a fundamental human need as essential to our well-being as truth and goodness") is vague. I know he mentions the concept other times in the video, but just to make statements over it, not a definition of it. You can't distinguish music that has beauty and that doesn't from that "definition".
>>127755505Are you saying hip-hop doesn't have that?
>>127756422It's a bunch of stolen sounds meant to hype up the youth to commit crimes
>>127755505>pre-arranged noises made to entertain.Then boomers playing slot machines are listening to music
>>12773618399% of rappers don't make their own beats. any argument against this point is just "what about muh 1%?!" whataboutism
>>127735259No Wave and Death Metal fall under that category too
>>127735230If your type of music is freefalling in quality just because Tupac and Biggie are dead then it's hardly a genre.
>>127735230these niggas just say these shit cuz they listen to some pretentious shit like classical music or prog rock
>>127735409I’d like to see you try to hit the notes in Breadcrumb Trail.Post a vocaroo of your cover of it.
>>127756513most rappers select their beats and some are pretty good at it
